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View Full Version : How I see the draft shaping up



kernowboy
03-21-2010, 08:46 AM
With some Free Agent signings made, and there being very little left until teams start making cuts, I think we can see how this might impact on the draft.

Starting with QB, there are clearly two guys who are head and shoulders above the rest - Bradford and Clausen. For me Clausen is a reach at No9. If he'd stayed for his senior season, he might not have even been a R1 pick in 2011. The other QBs are simply not the saviours we are looking for or better than what we have either due to physical limitations (McCoy, Pike) or a lack of experience in a pro-system (Tebow). Even though Tebow has changed his mechanics, doesn't mean he'd immediately revert to them under pressure plus he hasn't shown any ability to improve his reading of defences or stare down his primary targets.

Despite the signing of Green, LT is still a primary need. Starting calibre guys always go higher on draft day, and there seems little point in drafting players and then placing them in an environment of zero protection - as Buddy Nix said:


"It's hard to throw when you're lying on your back."




The question must be - WILL THE BILLS EMPHASISE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE LIKE THE LIONS, OR POSITIONAL VALUE LIKE PIOLI DOES WITH CHIEFS?



Whilst we are still short at WR, a major piece missing is NT and considering the new defence, I cannot see us going with Kyle Williams or Lonnie Harvey - well I hope we don't anyway. Signing Edwards has however lessened the need for a Day1 DE.

ILB seems fixed but there are still concerns at OLB. Whilst Graham and Morgan seem like great selections, I'm not sure the ease with which they would transition to 3-4, we could get bye without them whilst we really need credible pass protection and the fall off to guys like Jerry Hughes and Ricky Sapp is less than the considerable drop off in talent at LT.

Lynch is still the great conundrum. I can see us making a trade and hope it might be with Seattle - if they don't take a RB with either R1 pick and it is possible they will look at their secondary and OL first, then they still need a RB, and picking at No60 might struggle to find a starter, at which point the still young Lynch might be an attractive option.

So I would hope our draft goes positionally like this:

Day1

R1 (9) - Left Tackle
I doubt Okung will fall but would hope Bulaga would be there. If not then Trent Williams, Anthony Davis, and Bruce Campbell should be. All have their weaknesses as well as their strengths, but with teams behind us also wanting OT help, I would be concerned about trading down and losing out on all, in which case I would reach a little and accept some short term growing pains. Personally I'd go Campbell, not because of his combine, but because I think he has the highest potential and by 2011, he'll be at the level of Ryan Clady.

BRUCE CAMPBELL

Day2

R2 (41) - OLB or NT
I guess this depends on how far Terrence Cody falls and whether Jerry Hughes or Ricky Sapp are still available. Cody looks, unlike Andre Smith, that he does want a career in the NFL and has made an effort - you want to see that in your young players. However can the team pass up a OLB talent like Hughes or Sapp? Even if they've gone earlier someone like Koa Misi, Sergio Kindle or Jason Worilds will be available with the latter climbing despite a poor 2009 season.


JERRY HUGHES (fingers crossed)

R2 (60 from Seattle) - NT or OLB
Whilst Worilds could be available the fall off then to someone like Thaddeus Gibson who had a mediocre season but strong ProDay. I would aim for the next big need which is NT and with both Dan Williams and Cody gone, we then consider the next level which is Cam Thomas or Linval Joseph. Both will be considered reaches based on performance, but positional value means they go higher than their best player available analysis would predict. For me, Joseph has the greater athleticism, strength and upside.

LINVAL JOSEPH

R3 (72) - BPA
Here it gets tricky. Is there a QB or WR here who might be better than what we currently have or will they muddy cloudy waters further, by taking away training camp time. Can we rest our laurels on Shawn Nelson being the TE of the future with limited blocking and marginal evidence. Is there a need to get further ILB depth with Mitchell, Posluzny and Davis onboard or should we look for additional OLB help. Are we happy with interior depth on the OL. Personally I would look at two players like to fall due to medical worries - Sean Lee, ILB and Rob Gronkowski TE, a true TE who can effectively block, catch and create mismatches. Additionally he's a Bill fan who want to play for his home team.

ROB GRONKOWSKI TE

Day4

R4 AUSTEN LANE 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB
At 6ft6, 276lbs he has the size and frame to add another 10-15lbs and be the long term replacement for Marcus Stroud at DE or could drop 15lbs and be a fairly scary OLB

R5 COREY PETERS DL
A 4-3 DT with enough athleticism to move to end at 6ft3, and 301lbs. Quick across the ground too - might add weight to become a rotational NT

R6 JAMES STARKS RB
Depth behind Fred. An injury missed senior season but ran a 4.48 on his Pro-Day and he's someone the Bills have been paying close attention to

R6 (from Eagles) ANDREW TYSHOVNYTSKY OL
Experienced at OT and OG and will provide decent depth for the team. Would need a nickname though

R7 NAAMAN ROOSEVELT WR
A slow Pro-Day time dropped his stock but he has the skills to be our version of Pierre Garcon

R7 RAMON HAREWOOD OL
Very inexperienced but athletic due his cricket/rugby background and he is huge at 6ft6, 353lbs. Ironically some think he might not be drafted because he is too intelligent and therefore might not have a passion for the game required which is remarkable (and ridiculous). A replacement for Green in a couple of years time or a brick wall if moved inside

I haven't drafted a QB because I don't think outside of Bradford and Clausen that anyone in this draft offers any more than Brohm and Edwards.

I would have each get 50% of the snaps under the tution of Gailey and Cortez until a winner emerges. If they fail during the season we use our No1 pick in 2011 on a QB. It is arguable that a number of contenders in this deeper draft will be better than Clausen. What is not arguable is that if we put Bradford or Clausen behind our current LT, he'll start the season on IR.

tampabay25690
03-21-2010, 08:50 AM
I think the BILLS go Defense at #9..
My gut feeling....
Derrick Morgan I think will be the pick..
This is as of right now..

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 08:51 AM
I think the BILLS go Defense at #9..
My gut feeling....
Derrick Morgan I think will be the pick..
This is as of right now..

Another year failing to address LT will put us back 3-4 years

methos4ever
03-21-2010, 08:52 AM
Question regarding Lynch:

Why would a team trade for a guy like Lynch for a 2nd? When they could pick up a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and do the same?

I just think this dump Lynch phenomenon while provoked by his actions isn't really helpful to the draft process - there are far easier ways to get a back other than trading for a guy that's an incident away from 6 games or more out.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 08:59 AM
Question regarding Lynch:

Why would a team trade for a guy like Lynch for a 2nd? When they could pick up a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and do the same?

I just think this dump Lynch phenomenon while provoked by his actions isn't really helpful to the draft process - there are far easier ways to get a back other than trading for a guy that's an incident away from 6 games or more out.

I never wanted Lynch anyway but at No60, you will be struggling in this draft to find a starting RB at which point Lynch is attractive.

There will always be coaches who think they can handle his 'behavioural' issues.

tampabay25690
03-21-2010, 09:02 AM
Another year failing to address LT will put us back 3-4 years

I agree 100%% about a LT but I think they get the OT in the next pick deepest class in the draft is the OL...

Just my gut feeling I could see a DT at #9 as well....

WeAreArthurMoates
03-21-2010, 09:37 AM
I do think the Bills go defense as well but I'm actually going with Brandon Graham. A Lamar Woodley clone and will contribute instantly as a LOLB

Ron Burgundy
03-21-2010, 09:46 AM
If I didn't know any better, kernowboy, I'd think you wanted us to draft Bruce Campbell in the first round.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 09:47 AM
I do think the Bills go defense as well but I'm actually going with Brandon Graham. A Lamar Woodley clone and will contribute instantly as a LOLB

So could Jerry Hughes. Woodley was a R2 pick I seem to recall going at No46

We have more chance of finding a starting 3-4 OLB at No41 than we do a starting LT and as we need both its best to make sure we get both, or find we have a starting 3-4 OLB and ..... Demetrius Bell protecting our QB again

Wittman21
03-21-2010, 09:51 AM
Three guys from the Buffalo region...Starks (Niagara Falls), Roosevelt (St. Joes?), and Gronkowski.....They would all be happy with getting picked by their hometown team

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 09:56 AM
Three guys from the Buffalo region...Starks (Niagara Falls), Roosevelt (St. Joes?), and Gronkowski.....They would all be happy with getting picked by their hometown team

There is some thinking there Wittman21.

We frequently here of players who cannot wait to get away from Buffalo.

The Bulls have gotten much better, and in 2008 we missed out on Trevor Scott, drafting Chris Ellis instead. Based on performance, I know who I'd rather than at the moment.

Roosevelt and Starks fill potential needs and next year with Whitner in the final year of his contract they have a young SS in Davonte Shannon who would also be a great selection.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 10:09 AM
I can understand the need/desire for Graham but for me, I see it is as getting the best positional value possible whilst also dealing with depth concerns and issues.

In 2012, I could easily see a front 3 of Peters-Joseph-Lane and a LB corps of Hughes-Posluzny-2011 draft pick-Maybin and a QB selected next year playing behind a line of Campbell-Levitre-Wood-Tyshovnytsky-Meredith/Bell/Harewood,

Often the BEST TEAMS are NOT comprised of the best players at each position.

NOT THE DUDE...
03-21-2010, 11:42 AM
its going to be morgan or graham at 9. mark it down.

BillsMan80
03-21-2010, 12:33 PM
How is Clausen a reach at 9, yet you come on here advocating Bruce Campell, who would be an even BIGGER reach at 9...Doesn't make any sense.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 01:16 PM
How is Clausen a reach at 9, yet you come on here advocating Bruce Campell, who would be an even BIGGER reach at 9...Doesn't make any sense.

Clausen is a reach at No9 because we draft him with zero pass protection.

A bit like serving beer ..... in a sieve

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 01:16 PM
its going to be morgan or graham at 9. mark it down.

Morgan is a 4-3 DE only.

Unless you've not heard we are moving to a 3-4 alignment.

As for Graham, whilst he is a stats monster there are problems

1) he's not big enough to be a 3-4 DE

2) he's not good around his hips and would struggle dropping into zone coverage. Most observors I've said say he's again a 4-3 DE, not a 3-4 OLB

Luisito23
03-21-2010, 01:20 PM
Clausen is a reach at No9 because we draft him with zero pass protection.


That doesn't make him a reach...

BillsMan80
03-21-2010, 01:23 PM
Clausen is a reach at No9 because we draft him with zero pass protection.

A bit like serving beer ..... in a sieve

A great QB can make up for a bad offensive line, but a great OL can't make up for a bad QB.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 01:25 PM
That doesn't make him a reach...

but it is a reach when we compare Clausen to the candidates coming out in 2011.

Clausen wouldn't even be a Round1 pick in 2011. We reach for him this year out of desperation where we could find a better QB lower in R1 next year.

He's not a reach in terms of QB quality this year ... BUT ... QB quality this year is poor.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 01:26 PM
A great QB can make up for a bad offensive line, but a great OL can't make up for a bad QB.

Clausen is not even close to being a great QB. He'd be about the 5th best QB if he came out next year.

Trent Dilfer did ok behind Jonathan Ogden .... SuperBowl winner I believe.

BillsMan80
03-21-2010, 01:45 PM
Clausen is not even close to being a great QB. He'd be about the 5th best QB if he came out next year.

Trent Dilfer did ok behind Jonathan Ogden .... SuperBowl winner I believe.

Wrong...Mallet, Locker, all those guys are overhyped and overrated and have proven nothing in college whereas all Clausen did was improve every year and have a fantastic season this past year in a pro style offense.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 01:57 PM
.... and he played for such a winning college team, doing fantastically well in the big games as well

PECKERWOOD
03-21-2010, 03:41 PM
1.) Bradford
2.) Clausen
3.) Okung
4.) Suh
5.) McCoy
6.) Bryant
7.) Bulaga
8.) Dan Williams
9.) Anthony Davis

That's how my big board is looking, now who our pick is going to be, I have zero clue, but I can think of 10 guys I'd rather have over Bruce Campbell, Trent Williams is one of them.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 03:48 PM
The issue with Campbell is he did TOO well at the Combine so now everyone thinks he simply a gym guy.

Trent Williams was actually disappointing when he switched to the Left Side from Right Tackle and he'll face better players in the NFL than he did in college - Anthony Davis has conditioning and attitude problems ..

what exactly has Campbell done wrong apart from try his best at the combine?

NOT THE DUDE...
03-21-2010, 04:11 PM
draft pass rushers, pass rushers, pass rushers OBD!

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 04:28 PM
draft pass rushers, pass rushers, pass rushers OBD!

stop the run, protect the QB OBD !!!!!!!!!!!!!

nateodoms'bff
03-21-2010, 04:46 PM
Morgan is a 4-3 DE only.

Unless you've not heard we are moving to a 3-4 alignment.

As for Graham, whilst he is a stats monster there are problems

1) he's not big enough to be a 3-4 DE

2) he's not good around his hips and would struggle dropping into zone coverage. Most observors I've said say he's again a 4-3 DE, not a 3-4 OLB

Almost got it right. The problem isnt in his hips, its his back peddling motion. His turn into coverage is fine. In fact, its one of the better parts of his game. When he played off the line last season in pass protection, he actually did quite well in taking the screen away and protecting the tight end. Its when they needed him to drop back and defend the middle of the field that he had some problems. But thats something that any athlete can get out of their system in a training camp and position practice. Brandon Graham is the defensive stud that the Bills have needed for years.

kernowboy
03-21-2010, 04:53 PM
Except we actually need a 3-4 OLB not a 4-3 DE.

Personally I think Jerry Hughes of TCU is a better 3-4 OLB prospect in the NFL. He has excellent production, excellent attitude and good experience and would be possibly around in the 2nd.

Graham's attempt to bulk up makes me wonder if he wants to play in a 4-3 defence like Atlanta's or Seattle's?

nateodoms'bff
03-21-2010, 05:09 PM
Except we actually need a 3-4 OLB not a 4-3 DE.

Personally I think Jerry Hughes of TCU is a better 3-4 OLB prospect in the NFL. He has excellent production, excellent attitude and good experience and would be possibly around in the 2nd.

Graham's attempt to bulk up makes me wonder if he wants to play in a 4-3 defence like Atlanta's or Seattle's?

Who cares where he wants to play? The point is, if he is drafted, he will play there.

The addition of weight is probably him trying to bulk up to show he can add weight and maintain his explosiveness and speed.

Hughes was surrounded by talented players, and played a soft schedule. Graham played in the Big 10. Regardless of what anyone says about that division those games are tough fights. A lot of pressure on the players and coaches to perform. Graham proved week in and week out that he was on a different level than everyone else. Vernon Gholston clearly was outmatched against bigger offensive lines, and his lack of passion is what has done him in in the NFL. Graham doesn't have those issues. He is hungry, and loves the game. Two thing that Gholston never was.

Also, the coaching staff, George Edwards himself, has said that the Bills will play more of a hybrid 4-3/3-4 defense this year to put the players on the roster in the best position to succeed. Graham is a huge improvement over either Kelsay or Schoebel at the DE psoition on day 1.

EDS
03-21-2010, 05:12 PM
The issue with Campbell is he did TOO well at the Combine so now everyone thinks he simply a gym guy.

Trent Williams was actually disappointing when he switched to the Left Side from Right Tackle and he'll face better players in the NFL than he did in college - Anthony Davis has conditioning and attitude problems ..

what exactly has Campbell done wrong apart from try his best at the combine?

Campbell's problem appears to be that he was not that good during the games.

Ron Burgundy
03-22-2010, 09:22 AM
Campbell's problem appears to be that he was not that good during the games.

:rofl:

The reason people are down on Bruce Campbell is because he's never been all-ACC performer, he has had some problems with injuries, he's inexperienced, and because he's a suspect run blocker at best.

nateodoms'bff
03-22-2010, 10:50 AM
[QUOTE=Ron Burgundy]:rofl:

The reason people are down on Bruce Campbell is because he's never been all-ACC performer, he has had some problems with injuries, he's inexperienced, and because he's a suspect run blocker at best.[/QUOTE

those are some big issues for a Guy being taken at #9 overall. no thanks.

if you were trying to sway us with that glowing analysis, try again

Ron Burgundy
03-22-2010, 11:44 AM
those are some big issues for a Guy being taken at #9 overall. no thanks.

if you were trying to sway us with that glowing analysis, try again

I am definitely not trying anything like that. I don't want Bruce Campbell at #9, or even in the first round.