I'm so tried of the QB threads here!

[HHURRICANE]

I'm still trying to understand why everyone thinks that if we address QB the team is automatically fixed.

The reason that teams like Miami, NY and Atlanta had improvements with changes at QB was because improvements had been made on the their enitre rosters including the o-line specifically.

This idea that McNabb is going to show up and make Evans, Hardy, Parrish, and Johnosn into something more than terrible behind one of the worst lines in football is laughable.

This team needs to draft for the o-line and hope that we get some WR help during FA or via trade, etc.

[BillsWin]

Says the Edwards fan. :funny:

[Mahdi]

I'm still trying to understand why everyone thinks that if we address QB the team is automatically fixed.

The reason that teams like Miami, NY and Atlanta had improvements with changes at QB was because improvements had been made on the their enitre rosters including the o-line specifically.

This idea that McNabb is going to show up and make Evans, Hardy, Parrish, and Johnosn into something more than terrible behind one of the worst lines in football is laughable.

This team needs to draft for the o-line and hope that we get some WR help during FA or via trade, etc.
Pretty sure the Atlanta drafted Ryan who is a special QB, Sanchez in NY and the Phins had Pennington playing real well for them all the way to the playoffs last year.

Many ppl will criticize Sanchez, but simply put, I don't think they would have done what they did with Kellen Clemens.

[Bill Cody]

Not sure we could win with Fitz under center if the other team had to count to "5 Mississippi" before they rushed.

[Ron Burgundy]

Many ppl will criticize Sanchez, but simply put, I don't think they would have done what they did with Kellen Clemens.

You're right...Clemens could never have led the Jets to a top ranking defensively and in the run game like Sanchez did. His ability to hand off and to turn the ball over so that his defense could shine was both amazing and inspiring.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This is Hilarious from the dude who starts a thread about every little bit of nonsense possible.

Some of us want a QB. You don't.

It is a simple difference in opinion. I respect your angle as you should mine.

[Mahdi]

You're right...Clemens could never have led the Jets to a top ranking defensively and in the run game like Sanchez did. His ability to hand off and to turn the ball over so that his defense could shine was both amazing and inspiring.
Sanchez made plays down the stretch. Clemens was a disaster.

[better days]

If you are tired of QB threads, I suggest you don't open them. QB is the #1 NEED of the Bills & will be a topic of discussion until they have a viable starter on the team. And NO Edwards is NOT a viable starter.

[Bill Cody]

I'm still trying to understand why everyone thinks that if we address QB the team is automatically fixed.



Name 1 person that said this. Another waste of time straw man thread.

[SirMcGee]

Sanchez made plays down the stretch. Clemens was a disaster.

Name one defining moment. I'd say the number 1 defense in the NFL and the top 3 rushing attack did all that.

[G Wolly]

You're tired of the QB threads

So you make your own

:brilliant:

[Pinkerton Security]

I'll go ahead and agree with HH, in that I think getting a QB, especially in this QB-thin class, is putting the cart before the horse.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'll go ahead and agree with HH, in that I think getting a QB, especially in this QB-thin class, is putting the cart before the horse.
There are 2 QBs that are heads and shoulders above the rest. After those 2 I would totally agree with you.

[better days]

There are 2 QBs that are heads and shoulders above the rest. After those 2 I would totally agree with you.

If they are both gone, I still think the Bills draft a QB.

[TacklingDummy]

I'm still trying to understand why everyone thinks that if we address QB the team is automatically fixed.


Show me a team that has been good for a period of time who didn't have a franchise QB?

Now I'll show you the Bills QB the past 14 years. Rob Johnson, Alex Van Pelt, Bobby Joe Hobert, Drew Bledsoe, JP Losman, Kelly Holcomb, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Shane Matthews, Travis Brown, Todd Collins, Brian Brohm, Gibran Hamdan.

Do you see the problem there? QB is the most important position on the field. Teams generally don't win over a period of time without one.

How did the Bills do before and after Kelly? The Colts before Manning, the Broncos before and after Elway, the Dolphins after Marino, the Bengals before Palmer, the 49ers after Young, the list goes on and on.

[TacklingDummy]

I'll go ahead and agree with HH, in that I think getting a QB, especially in this QB-thin class, is putting the cart before the horse.
Teams build around QB's. The QB is the horse.

[Pinkerton Security]

Teams build around QB's. The QB is the horse.

That is debatable, as most QBs look worse behind crap OL's...very few QBs flourish behind OL's as bad as ours. Lots of people would agree when someone says the most important parts of a team are in the trenches, on both O and D

[Ebenezer]

Show me a team that has been good for a period of time who didn't have a franchise QB?

Now I'll show you the Bills QB the past 14 years. Rob Johnson, Alex Van Pelt, Bobby Joe Hobert, Drew Bledsoe, JP Losman, Kelly Holcomb, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Shane Matthews, Travis Brown, Todd Collins, Brian Brohm, Gibran Hamdan.

Do you see the problem there? QB is the most important position on the field. Teams generally don't win over a period of time without one.

How did the Bills do before and after Kelly? The Colts before Manning, the Broncos before and after Elway, the Dolphins after Marino, the Bengals before Palmer, the 49ers after Young, the list goes on and on.
HH just got schooled by TD.

[TacklingDummy]

That is debatable, as most QBs look worse behind crap OL's...very few QBs flourish behind OL's as bad as ours. Lots of people would agree when someone says the most important parts of a team are in the trenches, on both O and D

Franchise QB make everyone around them better.

The list is huge of teams who were crap before they found their franchise QB.

Kelly, Marino, Farve, Elway, Manning, etc... all played with different linemen combination though out their years, yet they still remained productive. Maybe it has a lot to do with who's behind center.

[TacklingDummy]

That is debatable, as most QBs look worse behind crap OL's...very few QBs flourish behind OL's as bad as ours. Lots of people would agree when someone says the most important parts of a team are in the trenches, on both O and D

If the most important part of a team is the O and D line, show me 2 teams who's been good for say 7 years who didn't have a good QB but had a excellent D/O lines.

[Pinkerton Security]

Franchise QB make everyone around them better.

The list is huge of teams who were crap before they found their franchise QB.

Kelly, Marino, Farve, Elway, Manning, etc... all played with different linemen combination though out their years, yet they still remained productive. Maybe it has a lot to do with who's behind center.
So basically you're saying we need to draft a future NFL HOFer in order to be good? I understand that you need a good QB but you a good OL can make a decent QB into a good or great QB

[Nighthawk]

You could put the great wall of china in front of Edwards and he'd still have trouble throwing the ball more then 5 yards...the guy is a wreck...time to move on.

[HHURRICANE]

I haven't said that Edwards is the answer at QB. McNabb is better hands down but to think he'll do anything to improve this team with the current oline and WRs is laughable.

Qb is the most important position on the team. But it's worthless without an oline. No team has ever won a Superbowl with a terrible oline but we've had a few marginal Qbs win it.

[better days]

That is debatable, as most QBs look worse behind crap OL's...very few QBs flourish behind OL's as bad as ours. Lots of people would agree when someone says the most important parts of a team are in the trenches, on both O and D

The Bucs have a much better O-line than the Packers, yet Rodgers looked much better than Freeman.

[better days]

I haven't said that Edwards is the answer at QB. McNabb is better hands down but to think he'll do anything to improve this team with the current oline and WRs is laughable.

Qb is the most important position on the team. But it's worthless without an oline. No team has ever won a Superbowl with a terrible oline but we've had a few marginal Qbs win it.

To think the Bills will go into the next season with the same O-Line as last year is laughable.

[HHURRICANE]

To think the Bills will go into the next season with the same O-Line as last year is laughable.
Yeah it will be worse.

[better days]

Yeah it will be worse.

Please explain how you think it will be worse. I would bet the Bills draft a LT sometime in this draft & have already signed a RT.

[X-Era]

I'm still trying to understand why everyone thinks that if we address QB the team is automatically fixed.

The reason that teams like Miami, NY and Atlanta had improvements with changes at QB was because improvements had been made on the their enitre rosters including the o-line specifically.

This idea that McNabb is going to show up and make Evans, Hardy, Parrish, and Johnosn into something more than terrible behind one of the worst lines in football is laughable.

This team needs to draft for the o-line and hope that we get some WR help during FA or via trade, etc.

If the team gets a franchise QB, the team is significantly fixed... not totally fixed.

And without one, we are significantly broke.

[DraftBoy]

The Bucs have a much better O-line than the Packers, yet Rodgers looked much better than Freeman.


Comparing a veteran QB to a rookie...not really a fair comparison.

[better days]

Comparing a veteran QB to a rookie...not really a fair comparison.

I think it is a fair comparison if someone thinks the O-Line is more important than the QB.

[DraftBoy]

I think it is a fair comparison if someone thinks the O-Line is more important than the QB.

No its not at all. You have a rookie who is still trying to learn the playbook, the call, the audibles, and how to recognize defenses and blitzes v. a vet who knows the playbook and has seen years of film. Not even close to fair.

[SABURZFAN]

Comparing a veteran QB to a rookie...not really a fair comparison.


but..... but..... but it supports his argument.

[BertSquirtgum]

i tried the qb threads too.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Pretty sure the Atlanta drafted Ryan who is a special QB, Sanchez in NY and the Phins had Pennington playing real well for them all the way to the playoffs last year.

Many ppl will criticize Sanchez, but simply put, I don't think they would have done what they did with Kellen Clemens.
I'm pretty sure they could've done what they did with J.P. Losman.

When you have an Oline, Running Game, and Defense as good as they do, you don't have to ask your QB to do very much.

[better days]

No its not at all. You have a rookie who is still trying to learn the playbook, the call, the audibles, and how to recognize defenses and blitzes v. a vet who knows the playbook and has seen years of film. Not even close to fair.

Well, it is a matter of opinion. IMO it is totally fair. The other poster claimed that the QB's play depended on the quality of the O-line. If anything a rookie playing behind a better line should have done well according to him. My point is a QB will look better behind a good line than a bad one, but a bad QB will look bad behind a good line while a GOOD QB will still look good behind a bad line.

[jamze132]

Why is this even an argument? Everyone knows that you need a good QB and a good O-line to be successful in today's NFL. The Bills haven't had either in over a decade, hence the reason we are arguing about it now. It's going to be next to impossible to fix both the O-line and the QB position in one offseason. Not to mention, we need to improve our D-line.

And anyone who breaks down college film can tell you that both Bradford and Clausen are both pretty big question marks. This QB class is pretty damn weak overall. You will find better value in the middle of the draft.

[Dujek]

If the most important part of a team is the O and D line, show me 2 teams who's been good for say 7 years who didn't have a good QB but had a excellent D/O lines.

Bar a couple of blips the Ravens have been in playoff contention for the last decade, and made the playoffs 6 times, with a ton of crap under center.

Not arguing that the Bills don't need a QB, just stating the one exception to the rule.

[kernowboy]

I don't think the Bucs OL was much better than the Packers OL. The Packers had the benefit of veteran guys on their line, whilst you could also say that Rogers had better receivers as well.

Even Elway, Manning etc first struggled when the came into the league irrespective of the quality of their lines. Elway's career finally reached its pinnacle when they brought in Gary Zimmerman.

What I think Hurricane is saying is that no rookie, no matter what his 'franchise' potential might be will thrive behind this sieve of an OL. What might happen however is that he will quickly become damaged goods and no better than the likes of Edwards, failing to ever reach his potential because his confidence has been ruined.

Drafting a QB this year MAY get us to middle of the league to the edges of the playoff race, no more than that.

I think that if Nix can finally fix the trenches rather than continually fix this team with bandaids, we can look serviceable QB play (Orton like) out of the current group and look for our QB of the future in subsequent drafts

[dasaybz]

I'm still trying to understand why everyone thinks that if we address QB the team is automatically fixed.

The reason that teams like Miami, NY and Atlanta had improvements with changes at QB was because improvements had been made on the their enitre rosters including the o-line specifically.

This idea that McNabb is going to show up and make Evans, Hardy, Parrish, and Johnosn into something more than terrible behind one of the worst lines in football is laughable.

This team needs to draft for the o-line and hope that we get some WR help during FA or via trade, etc.
Have you been asleep for the past 10 years?

[better days]

I don't think the Bucs OL was much better than the Packers OL. The Packers had the benefit of veteran guys on their line, whilst you could also say that Rogers had better receivers as well.

Even Elway, Manning etc first struggled when the came into the league irrespective of the quality of their lines. Elway's career finally reached its pinnacle when they brought in Gary Zimmerman.

What I think Hurricane is saying is that no rookie, no matter what his 'franchise' potential might be will thrive behind this sieve of an OL. What might happen however is that he will quickly become damaged goods and no better than the likes of Edwards, failing to ever reach his potential because his confidence has been ruined.

Drafting a QB this year MAY get us to middle of the league to the edges of the playoff race, no more than that.

I think that if Nix can finally fix the trenches rather than continually fix this team with bandaids, we can look serviceable QB play (Orton like) out of the current group and look for our QB of the future in subsequent drafts

If those Veteran O-Line Packers were Bills, this board would be full of threads about which should be cut 1st. The Bucs had Antonio Bryant & Kellen Winslow. I would take them over Donald Driver & Greg Jennings any day.

Just because the Bills draft a QB this year does not mean he needs to start this year. If a QB is there that Nix & Gailey really like they should get him.

[DraftBoy]

Well, it is a matter of opinion. IMO it is totally fair. The other poster claimed that the QB's play depended on the quality of the O-line. If anything a rookie playing behind a better line should have done well according to him. My point is a QB will look better behind a good line than a bad one, but a bad QB will look bad behind a good line while a GOOD QB will still look good behind a bad line.

A good QB can make a line look better than they really are. Marino did this in Miami, if you have a quick release like he did, you have to block for less time and therefor some of the defeciency can be made up for. Same with Vick in Atlanta, his running abilities made that OL look 10x better than it was. There was no way they should of led the league in rushing ever with that sorry OL but with Vick he neutralized their issues.

Im not taking one side or the other, Im just saying sometimes one can overcome the others negatives.

[trapezeus]

i feel bad for the bills fans who expect next year to be dramatically different. We all knew last years team was bad before it even started. That's why we wanted Jauron gone so badly because we knew it was going to take time. They robbed us of a year of rebuilding by pretending we were close and acting like we didn't know better.

The bills need a QB, but they need pretty much every other position as well. i don't care what they do this draft. They pick who they pick, but they need to be finding a core. A core something. if it is decided, we are going to get this line sorted out in this draft, i'm ok with that. if they want to address the D fense in this draft and get us some core NT and DE and LBs, ok.

If they think the QB is the problem, i'll be skeptical. I think our QB's aren't good enough, but i also think they are being asked to play under ridiculous circumstances.

[BillsMan80]

To me the bottom line is this, a great QB can make things happen behind any type of line and is going to make the throws no matter what, case and point-Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger who are great players despite having marginal OLs. Crappy QBs just because they have a lot of time from a great offensive line doesn't mean anything. Even if that crappy QB has plenty of time, he's not magically going to be able to put the ball in windows he wasn't able to before, or he's not magically going to find the ability to read a defense, or find more arm strength that he lacks.

[TacklingDummy]

Bar a couple of blips the Ravens have been in playoff contention for the last decade, and made the playoffs 6 times, with a ton of crap under center.

.
That's why I said name 2 teams.

40+ years of football and there's only been 1 team that was good for 7 years who didn't have a star QB. I guess having a good QB is very important.

[ZAZusmc03]

i feel bad for the bills fans who expect next year to be dramatically different. We all knew last years team was bad before it even started. That's why we wanted Jauron gone so badly because we knew it was going to take time. They robbed us of a year of rebuilding by pretending we were close and acting like we didn't know better.

The bills need a QB, but they need pretty much every other position as well. i don't care what they do this draft. They pick who they pick, but they need to be finding a core. A core something. if it is decided, we are going to get this line sorted out in this draft, i'm ok with that. if they want to address the D fense in this draft and get us some core NT and DE and LBs, ok.

If they think the QB is the problem, i'll be skeptical. I think our QB's aren't good enough, but i also think they are being asked to play under ridiculous circumstances.

I do agree with most of what you just said, Although I do believe the signing of TO gave a major part of our fans the false hope of a good offense. Between the reemergence of the no huddle offense to the extra threat at WR, many believed we could have a solid season. But after the line was dismantled it brought a lot of people back to reality. I know I was hoping for a big year out of edwards, TO, and Evans only on the belief that majority of our problems were not having two solid receiving threats. This year, there is no false hope to grab onto.