I openly challenge Op...

[Ebenezer]

Sabres against the Bruins. I'll take the Sabres; you can have the B's. If the Sabres win you go on "hiatus" from Billszone for a week and don't make one comment on the 2nd round NHL playoffs and don't mention the Sabres on your facebook AT ALL for the rest of playoffs. If the B's win I go on "hiatus" for a week from BZ and say congrats to the B's on my facebook.

Deal?

[Dr. Lecter]

Bets involving a hiatus are dumb, imo.

Bet avatars or something.

Except for a select few, I really don't want people to leave.

[LtFinFan66]

make him watch Twilight or something....or give him a Twilight avatar

[Ebenezer]

Bets involving a hiatus are dumb, imo.

Bet avatars or something.

Except for a select few, I really don't want people to leave.


Nope, Prof. Honeydew doesn't get changed sorry.

[Ebenezer]

make him watch Twilight or something....or give him a Twilight avatar


pfft...he's lucky that I didn't challenge him to find a new team to root for.

[RockStar36]

I'm with Lecter on this.

I argue with Op as much as anybody, but making him leave for the 2nd round wouldn't be beneficial to anybody on the board.

[madness]

Bets involving a hiatus are dumb, imo.

Bet avatars or something.

Except for a select few, I really don't want people to leave.

I agree. Bet that he has to be an above active participant (at least twice his weekly post count) in the main forum but can only say positive things. :evil:

[SkateZilla]

forget the words Hiatus, just get a mod to Temp. Ban him for a week and call it a deal.

we'll lose to the Bs in 6 anyway.

[DraftBoy]

Don't make him leave for a week, its draft week next week and that's not fair to either of you, for when the Bills **** it all up and take Tebow at 9.

[OpIv37]

Sabres against the Bruins. I'll take the Sabres; you can have the B's. If the Sabres win you go on "hiatus" from Billszone for a week and don't make one comment on the 2nd round NHL playoffs and don't mention the Sabres on your facebook AT ALL for the rest of playoffs. If the B's win I go on "hiatus" for a week from BZ and say congrats to the B's on my facebook.

Deal?

Leave Facebook out of it, and just do the one week hiatus from BZ, and I'm in.

[trapezeus]

i like both of your comments. i'd hate to see someone leave for a week.

I think we need some sort of Signature heralding the other as a genius for a week.

[Dr. Lecter]

Leave Facebook out of it, and just do the one week hiatus from BZ, and I'm in.

Nah.
Don't do that.

You both contribute to this place (even when you are wrong and won't admit it *cough* *cough*)

Besides, if the Sabres win I would rather Op be here so we can give him **** about it only to hear him say "Well,they won't win the next round!".

[OpIv37]

pfft...he's lucky that I didn't challenge him to find a new team to root for.

I've suffered with these teams for years- if their performance hasn't made me change allegiances, nothing will (except moving cities).

[Dr. Lecter]

I've suffered with these teams for years- if their performance hasn't made me change allegiances, nothing will (except moving cities).

If you did root for new teams, the Sabres and Bills would win a championship in the same year.

[OpIv37]

Alright Eb, I'm up for a bet but it sounds like the terms aren't very popular around here.

Got any other ideas?

[RockStar36]

I still say avatar. If Eb is so confident, he has nothing to worry about.

[DraftBoy]

I say a big sig bet, declaring one a genius and the other an idiot.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am leaving the zone if the Sabres lose after publically congratulating Op on the Bruin's victory.

[trapezeus]

op's kind of in the worst situation here. because he also wants to lose this bet. But if he wins, it's not going to be any fun to rag on eb and have the sabres oout of the playoffs. There needs to be some weighting in what op gets versus what Eb gets.

Op loses the bet, it's playful ribbing until the next series begins. If op wins, everyone is going to be pissed.

[JD]

Loser should dress up in the most homosexual thing possible OR wear a burkah to work.

[BlackMetalNinja]

op's kind of in the worst situation here. because he also wants to lose this bet. But if he wins, it's not going to be any fun to rag on eb and have the sabres oout of the playoffs. There needs to be some weighting in what op gets versus what Eb gets.

Op loses the bet, it's playful ribbing until the next series begins. If op wins, everyone is going to be pissed.As opposed to his usual situation of "if the Sabres struggle he gets to ***** and proclaim himself super smart/if the Sabres succeed, that's what he wanted all along". It became obvious to me awhile ago that Op just likes to keep himself in a win/win situation around here, and that's why he posts the way he does.

That being said, forcing him into exile doesn't benefit anybody.

[Dr. Lecter]

Loser should dress up in the most homosexual thing possible OR wear a burkah to work.

So you want to see Eb or Op dressed in something gay????
I,for one, won't judge you.

[OpIv37]

As opposed to his usual situation of "if the Sabres struggle he gets to ***** and proclaim himself super smart/if the Sabres succeed, that's what he wanted all along". It became obvious to me awhile ago that Op just likes to keep himself in a win/win situation around here, and that's why he posts the way he does.

That being said, forcing him into exile doesn't benefit anybody.

When have I EVER done that? I've been right about these teams a LOT, and the only time I ever bring it up is months later when people accuse me of being "negative" and don't take me seriously.

You've got that absolutely backwards. When I'm right, I can't even gloat about it because I take no glory in losing.

[BlackMetalNinja]

When have I EVER done that? I've been right about these teams a LOT, and the only time I ever bring it up is months later when people accuse me of being "negative" and don't take me seriously.

You've got that absolutely backwards. When I'm right, I can't even gloat about it because I take no glory in losing.Poor choice of words I suppose, you just argue endlessly that you're right all the time, despite mounds of evidence opposing you.

And the thing of it is, it's not even that most of say you're wrong all that often, we many times agree with you... You just over exaggerate and make things out to be 10x worse than they are most of the time.

[OpIv37]

Poor choice of words I suppose, you just argue endlessly that you're right all the time, despite mounds of evidence opposing you.

And the thing of it is, it's not even that most of say you're wrong all that often, we many times agree with you... You just over exaggerate and make things out to be 10x worse than they are most of the time.

maybe, but....

A) if one team is better than us, then it doesn't really matter how good things are. They still aren't good enough to win the Cup.

B) This is a team that made the conf finals two years in a row before the FO decided to break them down. We regressed instead of moving forward. I will not cut this team any slack until we get back to at least that level.

[YardRat]

Shove the pansy-nancy "But we value your contribution" horse-****. The outcome of this bet is win-win for most other members :D

[RockStar36]

maybe, but....

A) if one team is better than us, then it doesn't really matter how good things are. They still aren't good enough to win the Cup.

B) This is a team that made the conf finals two years in a row before the FO decided to break them down. We regressed instead of moving forward. I will not cut this team any slack until we get back to at least that level.

That's what makes the playoffs so fun. Anything can happen. Remember when Edmonton made the Cup as an 8 seed?

[SabreEleven]

If Boston wins, I say Lecter has to dress in drag on Saturday night, oh wait, that wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary....

[Buffalogic]

Do signatures. Everyone will be able to see the outcome of the bet easily and the loser can stick around to take his lashings.

[Ebenezer]

Leave Facebook out of it, and just do the one week hiatus from BZ, and I'm in.


Why leave FB out of it...you bragged loudly and quickly enough after they clinched the division. (um, two faced?)

Fine no FB but the loser doesn't get to contribute to Round 2. It's a bet.

[Ebenezer]

Alright Eb, I'm up for a bet but it sounds like the terms aren't very popular around here.

Got any other ideas?


Nope, that's the bet. Getting ball-less? You're Mr. Supreme Overconfident This team sucks there is no way they win a series ever in my lifetime because they should have come in last even though they won the division don't you understand they did it all with smoke and mirrors and lucky bounces. What do you have to lose?

[BlackMetalNinja]

maybe, but....

A) if one team is better than us, then it doesn't really matter how good things are. They still aren't good enough to win the Cup.

B) This is a team that made the conf finals two years in a row before the FO decided to break them down. We regressed instead of moving forward. I will not cut this team any slack until we get back to at least that level.Expectations of a Stanley Cup every year are absurd and NO team should be held to that standard every year. Wanting it to happen and expecting it to are completely different and where most sane people draw the line.

I just can't for the life of me understand why you can't at all be happy when you didn't even expect them to make the playoffs and they won their division with relative ease. For me, everything is gravy once they've exceeded my expectations. Sure, I'll be disappointed when they get knocked out, that's part of being a fan, but looking at the big picture, I'll still be satisfied.

[Ebenezer]

Wanting it to happen and expecting it to are completely different and where most sane people draw the line.


and this is why you, and most posters, are sane....and he is not.

[OpIv37]

Why leave FB out of it...you bragged loudly and quickly enough after they clinched the division. (um, two faced?)

Fine no FB but the loser doesn't get to contribute to Round 2. It's a bet.

What's two-faced about it? I want the team to win- I ***** when they don't, I cheer when they do. 100% consistent, unlike some other "fans" who were trying to explain to me why a loss to a division opponent was acceptable.

[OpIv37]

Expectations of a Stanley Cup every year are absurd and NO team should be held to that standard every year. Wanting it to happen and expecting it to are completely different and where most sane people draw the line.

I just can't for the life of me understand why you can't at all be happy when you didn't even expect them to make the playoffs and they won their division with relative ease. For me, everything is gravy once they've exceeded my expectations. Sure, I'll be disappointed when they get knocked out, that's part of being a fan, but looking at the big picture, I'll still be satisfied.

The goal is to win the Stanley Cup. Every year. Period.

Do I expect them to win the Cup every year, or even this year? Of course not- I didn't even expect them to make the playoffs.

But once again, the goal is not to exceed my expectations- it's to win the Cup. I evaluate them based on the goal, not based on my expectations.

[BlackMetalNinja]

The goal is to win the Stanley Cup. Every year. Period.

Do I expect them to win the Cup every year, or even this year? Of course not- I didn't even expect them to make the playoffs.

But once again, the goal is not to exceed my expectations- it's to win the Cup. I evaluate them based on the goal, not based on my expectations.So every single season in their existence has been a complete failure, got it. I wish everything were so damn black and white.

[Ebenezer]

What's two-faced about it? I want the team to win- I ***** when they don't, I cheer when they do. 100% consistent, unlike some other "fans" who were trying to explain to me why a loss to a division opponent was acceptable.
Is it a bet or not?

[Ebenezer]

The goal is to win the Stanley Cup. Every year. Period.

Do I expect them to win the Cup every year, or even this year? Of course not- I didn't even expect them to make the playoffs.

But once again, the goal is not to exceed my expectations- it's to win the Cup. I evaluate them based on the goal, not based on my expectations.
btw, please remember to ***** at your kid every single day for every single grade they ever get that is not a 100% because, of course, the goal is to be the best all the time.

[OpIv37]

btw, please remember to ***** at your kid every single day for every single grade they ever get that is not a 100% because, of course, the goal is to be the best all the time.

because child-rearing is 100% exactly like rooting for a sports team and therefore both situations should be handled in the exact same manner. Makes perfect sense.

[Nighthawk]

So every single season in their existence has been a complete failure, got it. I wish everything were so damn black and white.

I get your point, but there is only one goal in sports and that is to win a championship. The Sabres have done extremely well this season, but if they don't win the Cup, then they have failed to achieve the ultimate goal in hockey.

[Nighthawk]

btw, please remember to ***** at your kid every single day for every single grade they ever get that is not a 100% because, of course, the goal is to be the best all the time.

This makes absolutely no sense. Raising a child is nowhere near the same thing as the goal of sports...which is to win a championship. Life is not Black & White...the goal in sports is...Win or you fail.

[DraftBoy]

I get your point, but there is only one goal in sports and that is to win a championship. The Sabres have done extremely well this season, but if they don't win the Cup, then they have failed to achieve the ultimate goal in hockey.

Yes but there can be successful building block seasons.

Example: Nobody expects Buffalo to win next year so 8-8 would be a successful year despite not getting the title. To Op, based on his absolute logic, its a failure when in reality its a success.

[Ebenezer]

because child-rearing is 100% exactly like rooting for a sports team and therefore both situations should be handled in the exact same manner. Makes perfect sense.
whatever...

is it a bet?

[Mr. Pink]

I am leaving the zone if the Sabres lose after publically congratulating Op on the Bruin's victory.


Corey, you'll be missed!

[OpIv37]

Yes but there can be successful building block seasons.

Example: Nobody expects Buffalo to win next year so 8-8 would be a successful year despite not getting the title. To Op, based on his absolute logic, its a failure when in reality its a success.

In reality, it's not a success. If you consider 8-8 a success because the team is rebuilding, then you've lowered the standard. Expecting the Bills to win the SB this year is not reasonable, but it's still the ultimate goal.

In the grand scheme of things, the champion is immortalized and the team that went 8-8 when they were supposed to go 4-12 is quickly forgotten.

[OpIv37]

whatever...

is it a bet?

state the terms one more time, exactly how you want them. This thread got too confusing.

[DraftBoy]

In reality, it's not a success. If you consider 8-8 a success because the team is rebuilding, then you've lowered the standard. Expecting the Bills to win the SB this year is not reasonable, but it's still the ultimate goal.

In the grand scheme of things, the champion is immortalized and the team that went 8-8 when they were supposed to go 4-12 is quickly forgotten.

And what you described is not reality, its an altered view where only absolutes exist.

Nowhere in life or sports is the goal always the tippy top and everything else is a failure. The ultimate goal is always the same yes, but that's not always the expectation.

You're choosing to ignore expectation by dictating that anything short of a title is a failure. Here Ill prove it, what did you predict the Sabres do before the season began? If they exceeded your expectations from that stand point this season should be a success to you, no matter if they win it all or not.

[Ebenezer]

state the terms one more time, exactly how you want them. This thread got too confusing.
Sabres against the Bruins. I'll take the Sabres; you can have the B's. If the Sabres win you go on "hiatus" from Billszone for a week (no posting for one week from the second the deciding game ends) and don't make one comment on the 1st or 2nd round of the 2010 NHL playoffs ever. If the B's win I go on "hiatus" for a week from BillsZone and don't mention the 1st or 2nd round of the 2010 NHL playoffs ever (no posting for one week from the second the deciding game ends). In fact, if you're gutsy enough, neither one of us can post anything regarding the 2010 Sabres/Bruins series from the opening face off of game 1. Deal?

[Ebenezer]

And what you described is not reality, its an altered view where only absolutes exist.

Nowhere in life or sports is the goal always the tippy top and everything else is a failure. The ultimate goal is always the same yes, but that's not always the expectation.

hence my point about his kids.

[OpIv37]

And what you described is not reality, its an altered view where only absolutes exist.

Nowhere in life or sports is the goal always the tippy top and everything else is a failure. The ultimate goal is always the same yes, but that's not always the expectation.

You're choosing to ignore expectation by dictating that anything short of a title is a failure. Here Ill prove it, what did you predict the Sabres do before the season began? If they exceeded your expectations from that stand point this season should be a success to you, no matter if they win it all or not.

I never said it was the expectation. In fact, I said my expectations were quite different.

But my personal expectations are meaningless. The goal is to win the championship whether I personally deem that realistic or not. Success, to me, is irrelevant. If we get eliminated by Boston, they're not going to put an asterisk in the record book that says "*=but OpIv37 expected them to miss the playoffs, therefore this season was a success."

You're defining success as improvement or as meeting some kind of subjective expectation. I'm defining success in terms of achieving the ultimate goal.

[OpIv37]

hence my point about his kids.

you mean your completely irrelevant point comparing two dissimilar things?

[OpIv37]

Sabres against the Bruins. I'll take the Sabres; you can have the B's. If the Sabres win you go on "hiatus" from Billszone for a week (no posting for one week from the second the deciding game ends) and don't make one comment on the 1st or 2nd round of the 2010 NHL playoffs ever. If the B's win I go on "hiatus" for a week from BillsZone and don't mention the 1st or 2nd round of the 2010 NHL playoffs ever (no posting for one week from the second the deciding game ends). In fact, if you're gutsy enough, neither one of us can post anything regarding the 2010 Sabres/Bruins series from the opening face off of game 1. Deal?

Deal.

[Ebenezer]

you mean your completely irrelevant point comparing two dissimilar things?
but it is ok for DB to say "nowhere in life or sports"...I think that would cover the same thing.

[Ebenezer]

Deal.
good. I'm done with the thread.

[Dr. Lecter]

In reality, it's not a success. If you consider 8-8 a success because the team is rebuilding, then you've lowered the standard. Expecting the Bills to win the SB this year is not reasonable, but it's still the ultimate goal.

In the grand scheme of things, the champion is immortalized and the team that went 8-8 when they were supposed to go 4-12 is quickly forgotten.
If that is your theory, then why are you *****ing about their regular season when they are still in contention to meet the goal?

And this bet is stupid and moronic.

Bets in which the outcome leads to somebody having to exile themselves from a message board are antithesis to what a message board is all about.

[Dr. Lecter]

What's two-faced about it? I want the team to win- I ***** when they don't, I cheer when they do. 100% consistent, unlike some other "fans" who were trying to explain to me why a loss to a division opponent was acceptable.

To be fair, you ***** when they win too.

As for a loss to a division opponent being acceptable, it is expected in hockey. No team went undefeated against their division this year. There are realistic expectations and impossible expectations. You are expecting the impossible if the only acceptable outcome is not division losses.

And the fans in quotes is bull****. It is stuff like that that make others call out your fandom. You have no problem doing that to people, but ***** when people do it to you.

Don't be a hypocrite.

[OpIv37]

And the fans in quotes is bull****. It is stuff like that that make others call out your fandom. You have no problem doing that to people, but ***** when people do it to you.

Don't be a hypocrite.

we already had this conversation today.

[OpIv37]

To be fair, you ***** when they win too.

As for a loss to a division opponent being acceptable, it is expected in hockey. No team went undefeated against their division this year. There are realistic expectations and impossible expectations. You are expecting the impossible if the only acceptable outcome is not division losses.
.

I ***** when they win because I'm capable of looking at the larger picture. Remember the 2008 Bills when I *****ed when they won? How'd that turn out?

A loss to a division opponent is NOT acceptable. It's expected because only one team can win, and with so many division games each season, statistically no team can win them all. But that doesn't make it acceptable.

[DraftBoy]

I never said it was the expectation. In fact, I said my expectations were quite different.

But my personal expectations are meaningless. The goal is to win the championship whether I personally deem that realistic or not. Success, to me, is irrelevant. If we get eliminated by Boston, they're not going to put an asterisk in the record book that says "*=but OpIv37 expected them to miss the playoffs, therefore this season was a success."

You're defining success as improvement or as meeting some kind of subjective expectation. I'm defining success in terms of achieving the ultimate goal.

Given what your personal expectations were the Sabres season has been quite successful then.

I challenge you find one place in sports where expectations annually meet the ultimate goal. And I mean every year not just 10 or 20 straight, every year.

If you want to play the absolute game, Im happy to go down this road.

[helmetguy]

You mean atithesis, don't you, Doc?

[OpIv37]

Given what your personal expectations were the Sabres season has been quite successful then.

I challenge you find one place in sports where expectations annually meet the ultimate goal. And I mean every year not just 10 or 20 straight, every year.

If you want to play the absolute game, Im happy to go down this road.

Of course no team wins it every year. What difference does that make? The goal is still to win the championship, period.

[Dr. Lecter]

we already had this conversation today.

We did, but you keep applying to everybody and using it way too loosely.

Most of us here are no LosmanWins. Nobody is as impossible to please as you.


Those of us that fall short, are not "fans" anymore than you are a "fan". Not all fans are the same.

[Dr. Lecter]

Of course no team wins it every year. What difference does that make? The goal is still to win the championship, period.

Of course it is the goal. We all know that.

[OpIv37]

Of course it is the goal. We all know that.

so why does everyone have such a huge problem with me evaluating the team vs their chances/actual success in terms of meeting the universally agreed-upon goal rather than some subjectively determined expectation?

[Dr. Lecter]

I ***** when they win because I'm capable of looking at the larger picture. Remember the 2008 Bills when I *****ed when they won? How'd that turn out?

A loss to a division opponent is NOT acceptable. It's expected because only one team can win, and with so many division games each season, statistically no team can win them all. But that doesn't make it acceptable.

Stop with the 2008 Bills comparisons. Those have already been disproven in terms of their validity (did that team win their division? Did they make the playoffs?) It is as accurate and valid as Eb's child rearing comparison. It is a stupid comparison.

And you have failed to look at the big picture numerous times. They get shut out? That means they have no goal scorers. They lose one game to the Leafs who were in the middle of a 10-4-2 run? Season is over. You had them out of NE title contention two separate times. You keep saying they can't beat the Bruins because they don't score enough, despite the fact the significantly outscore the Bruins. You refuse to have more positives on the season than negatives despite their record.

BTW, you called me out pretty good last year (or the year before) when I said they would make the playoffs and they did not. I suppose I could bring up your "they might not make the playoffs" thread from a few weeks ago, but I will wait.

[Dr. Lecter]

so why does everyone have such a huge problem with me evaluating the team vs their chances/actual success in terms of meeting the universally agreed-upon goal rather than some subjectively determined expectation?

Because you are not evaluating all teams equally.

A loss to a team like Toronto means the Sabres are done. Pittsburgh gets shut out by Tampa and they are still world better than the Sabres.

You have the criteria for your team and criteria for everybody else.

You also point out the Sabres suck and are horrible if they don't win it all, but do not do so with the other 31 teams.

[DraftBoy]

Of course no team wins it every year. What difference does that make? The goal is still to win the championship, period.

The difference is;

You measure a team against the ultimate goal and criticize it for not making it, even though you lower your expectations for it.

You can't have it both way. Either expect the best and nothing less, or settle for less and be happy when they exceed it.

You choose the second option this season which means in terms of Op's expectations they have blown you away.

[OpIv37]

Stop with the 2008 Bills comparisons. Those have already been disproven in terms of their validity (did that team win their division? Did they make the playoffs?) It is as accurate and valid as Eb's child rearing comparison. It is a stupid comparison.

And you have failed to look at the big picture numerous times. They get shut out? That means they have no goal scorers. They lose one game to the Leafs who were in the middle of a 10-4-2 run? Season is over. You had them out of NE title contention two separate times. You keep saying they can't beat the Bruins because they don't score enough, despite the fact the significantly outscore the Bruins. You refuse to have more positives on the season than negatives despite their record.

BTW, you called me out pretty good last year (or the year before) when I said they would make the playoffs and they did not. I suppose I could bring up your "they might not make the playoffs" thread from a few weeks ago, but I will wait.

See, in this post, you're doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of. When I say that they have no goal scorers, that's part of a LARGER trend. The game is the SYMPTOM, not the problem. Look at how streaky Roy and Pominville are. Look at how Vanek's salary-to-goal ratio compares to the rest of the NHL, particularly the highest paid guys. Look at how non-existent Hecht and Stafford are. Need I continue?

The loss to the Leafs again where the SYMPTOM of larger problems- problems that will hold us back in the playoffs. But you refuse to see that. You just want to see it as me overreacting to one game, which is rarely the case.

Don't bother with the "may not make the playoffs" thread from a few weeks ago. Go back to the start of the season when I said they wouldn't make the playoffs at all. Fortunately, I was wrong on that and I'll eat my crow now.

[OpIv37]

The difference is;

You measure a team against the ultimate goal and criticize it for not making it, even though you lower your expectations for it.

You can't have it both way. Either expect the best and nothing less, or settle for less and be happy when they exceed it.

You choose the second option this season which means in terms of Op's expectations they have blown you away.

See, this is the problem. You think my expectations have some effect on the goal. They do not. The goal is the goal regardless of what I say, or you, or anyone else. Meeting my expectations doesn't mean dick. Reaching the goal does.

[DraftBoy]

See, this is the problem. You think my expectations have some effect on the goal. They do not. The goal is the goal regardless of what I say, or you, or anyone else. Meeting my expectations doesn't mean dick. Reaching the goal does.


I never said it had any effect on the goal actually, you're entire premise is off base.

[OpIv37]

I never said it had any effect on the goal actually, you're entire premise is off base.

My premise is off base?

Your premise is that my expectations matter. That's what's off base.

[DraftBoy]

My premise is off base?

Your premise is that my expectations matter. That's what's off base.

I never once said they matter actually. Would you like to point out where I said they matter? Or that they affect the goal?

Again your premise is off base.

[OpIv37]

I never once said they matter actually. Would you like to point out where I said they matter? Or that they affect the goal?

Again your premise is off base.

You didn't exactly say that. THis is what you said:




You can't have it both way. Either expect the best and nothing less, or settle for less and be happy when they exceed it.

You choose the second option this season which means in terms of Op's expectations they have blown you away.

And it's completely off base. when did I EVER settle for less? The reason I'm always complaining about this team... and the Bills.... is because I refuse to settle for less.

I look at the team and come up with realistic expectations for the team that season, but that's an intellectual exercise. It's a challenge to be as accurate as possible.

It doesn't change the fact that the goal is still to win the championship, and the complaining comes from the failure to do that. The two options you give in that post have no basis in reality.

[hydro]

The saddest thing is Opiv can never really enjoy sports with his line of thinking. I enjoy following a team and everything that goes into it but I in no way make winning a championship the only thing that makes me happy about my team. And even if that isn't exactly your line of thinking that is what you make it out to be. And you will go to extreme lengths to disprove anyone that doesn't think like you making us out to be thoughtless drones that follow the team mindlessly. If you have to go on a messageboard day in, day out and prove to everyone why they shouldn't "except mediocrity" how do you ever enjoy following your team? That is what I can't comprehend.

Do I have concerns? Yes and I usually make them known. Do I think we will win the first round? Sure we won the freaking NE! Why the hell not! Do I think we lack in scoring? Some games I wonder how we score at all because they look so anemic. But you know what. I then think of all the teams that scored less than us this season and think well maybe it isn't as bad as we all think.

Then it gets to the point where you just have to compare us to the Caps, THE BEST team in the league. Why is that the only team that you make comparison to? Why not the whole league? You think analytically, and the Caps being your only comparison is to small of a sample size.

I just wish you would listen/read what you are saying and stop trying to be right and just enjoy sports. That is all the rest of us do.

[OpIv37]

The saddest thing is Opiv can never really enjoy sports with his line of thinking. I enjoy following a team and everything that goes into it but I in no way make winning a championship the only thing that makes me happy about my team. And even if that isn't exactly your line of thinking that is what you make it out to be. And you will go to extreme lengths to disprove anyone that doesn't think like you making us out to be thoughtless drones that follow the team mindlessly. If you have to go on a messageboard day in, day out and prove to everyone why they shouldn't "except mediocrity" how do you ever enjoy following your team? That is what I can't comprehend.

Do I have concerns? Yes and I usually make them known. Do I think we will win the first round? Sure we won the freaking NE! Why the hell not! Do I think we lack in scoring? Some games I wonder how we score at all because they look so anemic. But you know what. I then think of all the teams that scored less than us this season and think well maybe it isn't as bad as we all think.

Then it gets to the point where you just have to compare us to the Caps, THE BEST team in the league. Why is that the only team that you make comparison to? Why not the whole league? You think analytically, and the Caps being your only comparison is to small of a sample size.

I just wish you would listen/read what you are saying and stop trying to be right and just enjoy sports. That is all the rest of us do.

Didn't you answer your own question in there? We can't be the best until we can BEAT the best. If we can't beat the Caps, then who cares that we won the NE? We're not going to win the Cup.

And you are right about one thing- I haven't enjoyed sports in a LONG time. But that's because my teams always suck. Even when they do something good- like the Sabres this year- it's just like waiting for the other shoe to drop. And hell, the Sabres have yet to even return to the level they were at 3 years ago. What's fun about regression?

[Dr. Lecter]

See, in this post, you're doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of. When I say that they have no goal scorers, that's part of a LARGER trend. The game is the SYMPTOM, not the problem. Look at how streaky Roy and Pominville are. Look at how Vanek's salary-to-goal ratio compares to the rest of the NHL, particularly the highest paid guys. Look at how non-existent Hecht and Stafford are. Need I continue?

The loss to the Leafs again where the SYMPTOM of larger problems- problems that will hold us back in the playoffs. But you refuse to see that. You just want to see it as me overreacting to one game, which is rarely the case.

Don't bother with the "may not make the playoffs" thread from a few weeks ago. Go back to the start of the season when I said they wouldn't make the playoffs at all. Fortunately, I was wrong on that and I'll eat my crow now.

One, Hecht has hardly been non-existent. That is just silly. Hell, it is outrigth stupid. 21 goals and leading the team in +/- is non-existent? Seriously? Second, we have all said that Vanek is having a down year.

Third, you are acting as if they are the only team with the problem. Obviously the Sabres goal scorers are on par with the rest of the league. You look at the individual players and not the team results. You do not stop to think that maybe they are inconsistent because once a guy like Pominville gets hot that teams put their top line against Pominville, which allows Vanek to get hot and so forth.

And could these problems hurt the team in the playoffs? Sure they could. No doubt. All teams have a weakness in the East. The Sabres are hardly alone. I have never said otherwise, and you accusing me of doing so is way off-base. But if you are taking a team ans saying their weakness will stop them then who will prevail in the East? Not Washington with Jose Theodore. Not Pittsburgh with their inability to beat top teams (and they were shut out by Tampa and Atlanta). Not Ottawa, who scores less than Buffalo. Not Philly with Boucher in goal. Boston? 2nd fewest goals in the NHL. Montreal? Goaltending issues this year. New Jersey? Not enough scoring.

So all of these teams can be summarily dismissed as having any chance.

We all know this team is not perfect. It has flaws.

But you know what? It has strengths too. And the record they put up this year seems to indicate that the positives out number the negatives. There are more than three positives (Miller, Myers and PK).

If the negatives so overwhelmingly outnumber the positives, how did the team win the NE and finish 3rd in the East?

[hydro]

Didn't you answer your own question in there? We can't be the best until we can BEAT the best. If we can't beat the Caps, then who cares that we won the NE? We're not going to win the Cup.

And you are right about one thing- I haven't enjoyed sports in a LONG time. But that's because my teams always suck. Even when they do something good- like the Sabres this year- it's just like waiting for the other shoe to drop. And hell, the Sabres have yet to even return to the level they were at 3 years ago. What's fun about regression?

If you think like that then you will only be happy with a season like our President Cup run which only happen once in a great while. And yes... WE WERE THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE! Where did that get us? Playoffs can be a crap shoot. That is why I have concerns but will still just enjoy my team playing well enough to be first in the NE and have a team that has a chance at the cup. Because everyone has a chance!

[OpIv37]

Because everyone has a chance!

but not everyone has an EQUAL chance, and that's where my concerns lie.

[DraftBoy]

For once Im going to be the one to say it...this is pointless. And I can't believe Im saying that.

[hydro]

but not everyone has an EQUAL chance, and that's where my concerns lie.

That should be a much smaller concern than you make it out to be. I am just happy to know we have a chance at winning it. And really the results of the regular season don't have as much baring on the chance of winning it all than some may think. It is all about being hot.

[OpIv37]

That should be a much smaller concern than you make it out to be. I am just happy to know we have a chance at winning it. And really the results of the regular season don't have as much baring on the chance of winning it all than some may think. It is all about being hot.

We lost 3-1 to Boston, beat Ottawa (which was nice) then promptly lost to NJ. That's not what I call "hot."

Some will say that Lalime played in those two losses, but again, we only scored 1 goal in each of those losses. Miller doesn't score goals.

[Buffalogic]

We lost 3-1 to Boston, beat Ottawa (which was nice) then promptly lost to NJ. That's not what I call "hot."

Some will say that Lalime played in those two losses, but again, we only scored 1 goal in each of those losses. Miller doesn't score goals.It's hard to go in hot when you clinch the division early and play the backup goalie along with all the call ups so your key players have a chance to get healthy.

No division leader really finished off with a bang. Even Pit/NJD who were fighting for their division title lost games down the stretch. No team going into the playoffs has more than a 3 game win streak and at the end of the year that doesn't really mean anything because the teams that are out don't care anymore and usually the good teams are resting their players, like us.

[Dr. Lecter]

One more question for Op:

You have been saying saying what your expectations for the Sabres do not matter because they need to win the cup. That is fine.

But earlier in this thread you said that you evaluate the Nationals differently because your expectations are lower for them (and you are more positive on the Nationals than you are the Sabres.)

Which is it?

[RockStar36]

Like stated before, teams have slipped up heading into the playoffs.

With the Atlantic division on the line, Pittsburgh got shut out by Atlanta 1-0.

So in the past few weeks, they have been shut out by both Atlanta and Tampa Bay.

[OpIv37]

One more question for Op:

You have been saying saying what your expectations for the Sabres do not matter because they need to win the cup. That is fine.

But earlier in this thread you said that you evaluate the Nationals differently because your expectations are lower for them (and you are more positive on the Nationals than you are the Sabres.)

Which is it?

I care more about the Sabres and the Bills than the Nationals. The Nationals are just a distraction for be between the end of hockey and the start of NFL training camp.

And in terms of evaluating the Nationals, it's the same thing. They've made some minor upgrades to their closers, they'll have Strasburg later in the year, etc, so they're moving in the right direction. But they still lack a bullpen, their starting rotation is probably average at best, and while their offense is vastly improved over a couple of years ago, they still don't have the firepower to keep up with teams like the Phillies.

[OpIv37]

Sabres against the Bruins. I'll take the Sabres; you can have the B's. If the Sabres win you go on "hiatus" from Billszone for a week (no posting for one week from the second the deciding game ends) and don't make one comment on the 1st or 2nd round of the 2010 NHL playoffs ever. If the B's win I go on "hiatus" for a week from BillsZone and don't mention the 1st or 2nd round of the 2010 NHL playoffs ever (no posting for one week from the second the deciding game ends). In fact, if you're gutsy enough, neither one of us can post anything regarding the 2010 Sabres/Bruins series from the opening face off of game 1. Deal?

Are we allowed to participate in the prediction threads, or is that off limits per the terms of the bet?

[Ebenezer]

Are we allowed to participate in the prediction threads, or is that off limits per the terms of the bet?
I can handle the prediction thread. I thought it was off-limits so I didn't predict game 1. I suppose we can do that...however, we were not supposed to discuss "anything regarding the 2010 Sabres/Bruins series"...that means anything regarding. You have made several posts today as to where you watched it, the broadcast of it, etc. The series is supposed to be off-limits.

[OpIv37]

I can handle the prediction thread. I thought it was off-limits so I didn't predict game 1. I suppose we can do that...however, we were not supposed to discuss "anything regarding the 2010 Sabres/Bruins series"...that means anything regarding. You have made several posts today as to where you watched it, the broadcast of it, etc. The series is supposed to be off-limits.

ok, I took it to mean only about the actual hockey, but if you want it completely off limits, then it's completely off limits from here on out, except for the prediction thread.

[OpIv37]

Eb- one point of clarification- is the hiatus from ALL of BZ, or just the Sabres Zone? The way you wrote it looks like all of BZ- I just wanted to be sure that's what you meant.

[SabreEleven]

It's not looking good for Eb.

[OpIv37]

and btw I'm with everyone else here now- this was a bad bet. I have a million things that I want to say but I can't if I want to honor the terms of the bet.... and I haven't even won or lost yet.

It feels like I'm already taking my punishment for losing. I don't know why I agreed to those terms. Congrats, Eb- regardless of how the bet turns out, you successfully turned my stubbornness and my male ego against me.

[Ebenezer]

Eb- one point of clarification- is the hiatus from ALL of BZ, or just the Sabres Zone? The way you wrote it looks like all of BZ- I just wanted to be sure that's what you meant.
I meant all of BZ.

[Ebenezer]

and btw I'm with everyone else here now- this was a bad bet. I have a million things that I want to say but I can't if I want to honor the terms of the bet.... and I haven't even won or lost yet.

It feels like I'm already taking my punishment for losing. I don't know why I agreed to those terms. Congrats, Eb- regardless of how the bet turns out, you successfully turned my stubbornness and my male ego against me.
I have a lot to say too...the point of the bet, the comparison to raising kids (which nobody got) and the aftermath was an attempt to show you that you just take these things way, way too seriously. When you yourself admit that you haven't really enjoyed a sport for X long then it's time to realize you have a real problem. I've never once had anything against you but you just don't seem to realize things. People will tell you how over the top you are about things and you continue to defend your original point rather than defend your style. No offense, and I take no glee in all of this.

[OpIv37]

I have a lot to say too...the point of the bet, the comparison to raising kids (which nobody got) and the aftermath was an attempt to show you that you just take these things way, way too seriously. When you yourself admit that you haven't really enjoyed a sport for X long then it's time to realize you have a real problem. I've never once had anything against you but you just don't seem to realize things. People will tell you how over the top you are about things and you continue to defend your original point rather than defend your style. No offense, and I take no glee in all of this.

No offense taken.

I always continue to defend my original post because if I didn't mean it, I wouldn't have said it.

For spectators, sports should be fun, but I don't understand how anyone can enjoy it when our teams are this bad (aside from the tailgates on game day, of course). On top of that, I've wasted far too much time defending my mentality on this board and I'm no longer willing to do that. The board is for discussing the teams. If I say something and someone disagrees, I'm more than happy to discuss that, because that is the point of a message board. If someone wants to debate my overall outlook on the teams, or life in general, that is a pointless discussion because no one is ever going to change their view as a result.