Addressing some Draft Issues

[Mahdi]

So there were a few things that happened in this draft that many did not expect so I thought I would give some rationalization for them based on my opinion.



1) Not selecting an OT till late: Personally, I didn't want an OT in the first round, too many good players were going to be available at #9 and we were in a great position to get one of them. Spiller as a football player is 10x better than any OT we could have taken. Nix waited to find an OT that fits Gailey's scheme and is a bit bigger than what we currently have at OT. Wang is 6'5 315 which makes him almost 11 pounds heavier than Meredith and Bell. I think Meredith will have first crack at the LT job. He is very athletic, strong (31 bench reps at combine) and has solid technique. Wang will provide depth along with Bell.


2) Why we drafted Troup so high: This was probably a shock pick to many but when you really analyze it, it makes perfect sense. For one, Troup is very very strong, he had 34 reps on the bench at the combine and that strength shows in his game. Not only did he have 34 reps, but he did it with very long arms, 34" arms on a 6'3 318 pound guy is impressive and is great for leverage and pass rushing. Two, Troup has great stamina, he plays a lot of the game and does not need to take plays off. Cody is not a guy you can count on for 4 quarters in the NFL. Troup is a guy that battles for 60 minutes. Seeing as how we don't have another true NT on the roster, we need a guy who can play a lot and not require constant breathers.

If you want to compare Troup to a current NFL NT that guy would be Jay Ratliff. They are almost carbon copy in terms of skill set, demeanor, size, arm length, and stamina. Torell Troup IMO was the only NT of his kind in the draft so taking him at 41 was a must. EXCELLENT PICK!


3) Not addressing QB till late: This move shows how much the Bills FO actually likes Brohm. Brohm is a guy that could have easily been the #1 pick in the draft. He has a strong arm, very good accuracy and produced big numbers in his senior year. Over 4000 yards and 29 TDs I believe. I think the Bills will dump one of Edwards or Fitz, IMO if you go with Brohm as the starter than Edwards should be released so that it is clear who the starting QB is. Fitz is the backup because we signed him to be that and he agreed to it. Edwards will always be pouting about not being QB1 so his presence IMO will not be healthy. Brown is an ideal developmental project QB. Decent mobility, strong arm, good production in college.


4) Why all the DEs in the mid rounds?: Arthur Moats was a DE in college and had very good production. Was an excellent pass rusher. That being said apparently the Bills will move him inside. The reasoning for that is they need a guy inside that can play with good leverage, has good range, and can give you a pass rush on A gap blitzes and stunts. Moats being a DE in college has all those skills. He is adept at battling OTs and OGs and should have no problem mashing it up when called upon. Danny Batten is just a pure football player. Just a guy who plays violent. He wants to throw you down not just tackle you. Not a crazy athlete, doesn't have a variety of pass rush moves, but he is fast (4.6 40) and is relentless in pass rush. I think this guy can turn out to be a guy that you give a few plays to and he makes the most of them. These two draft picks also signal the end of Chris Kelsay, Ellison and maybe even Chris Ellis or Aaron Schobel.


5) Alex Carrington in the 3rd: This might have been a place where the Bills could have gone OT but again, it's a value question. And the question is, is there an OT we can get here that is better than Meredith or Bell? Simple answer is no so they went with a guy that represented a HUGE value draft board wise and even higher value schematically. Carrington gives us something we don't currently have on the defensive unit. A pass rusher from the 5-technique spot. We will see a lot of Carrington on 3rd down and in passing situations. This defense will see a lot of rotation in the front 7 and everyone will be kept fresh.


Well that's my view of things. Hopefully if there was anyone who had doubts about those issues they are resolved.

Go Bills!

[TigerJ]

Sound reasoning. Just one small detail. I think Batten was timed at 4.71 in the 40. Moats was timed in the 4.56 range.

[justasportsfan]

not picking a qb does not necesarily mean they like Brohm. It could mean that they didn't think any of the qb's were franchise material . It could mean they like Trent too amongst other things.

[ddaryl]

I like those converted DE picks... big guys used to going head ot head with OL but with the size and sped capable of being LB'ers. Our OLB's in the 4-3 left us with light weights who couldn't get to the RB's on running plays

and although I knew nothing of Troup before the draft I agree he is the sleeper here, and there was a nice run on DT's the moment the Bills took Troup... We got a choice pick in this range.

Honestly I thought the draft was solid.... I really thought we would trade down from #9, but then again if Spiller was rated a top 5 pick how do you say no ?


All I know is we are alot more stout on the D front 7 and we gained a playmaker on the O

Still worrried about the LT slot and I hope the Bills can bring in a top candidate to fix this issue

[Mahdi]

not picking a qb does not necesarily mean they like Brohm. It could mean that they didn't think any of the qb's were franchise material . It could mean they like Trent too amongst other things.
Possible. But, I personally don't think they believe in Edwards. Edwards struggled to make routine throws last year. I don't care what he says about being confused by the coaches. An NFL throw does not require input from a coach. When Edwards was asked to throw the 15 yard out route last year he looked silly. That should have been seen by the coaches before drafting him.

Brohm on the other hand came in and made solid throws, he had good pace on his throws and they were on time. That was with little time to prepare. Brohm has the tools, Edwards does not. This is why I think it is there belief in Brohm not Edwards that kept them from choosing a QB earlier.

[Mahdi]

I like those converted DE picks... big guys used to going head ot head with OL but with the size and sped capable of being LB'ers. Our OLB's in the 4-3 left us with light weights who couldn't get to the RB's on running plays

and although I knew nothing of Troup before the draft I agree he is the sleeper here, and there was a nice run on DT's the moment the Bills took Troup... We got a choice pick in this range.

Honestly I thought the draft was solid.... I really thought we would trade down from #9, but then again if Spiller was rated a top 5 pick how do you say no ?


All I know is we are alot more stout on the D front 7 and we gained a playmaker on the O

Still worrried about the LT slot and I hope the Bills can bring in a top candidate to fix this issue
I'm hoping for Flozell Adams as a filler till we get some of the younger talent up to speed. He is perfect for what we expect to do.

[Pinkerton Security]

I read Moats was gonna be an OLB, not a DT? Hes only 250..


EDIT: maybe you meant ILB?

[Mahdi]

I read Moats was gonna be an OLB, not a DT? Hes only 250..
inside to ILB not DT.

[justasportsfan]

Possible. But, I personally don't think they believe in Edwards. Edwards struggled to make routine throws last year. I don't care what he says about being confused by the coaches. An NFL throw does not require input from a coach. When Edwards was asked to throw the 15 yard out route last year he looked silly. That should have been seen by the coaches before drafting him.

Brohm on the other hand came in and made solid throws, he had good pace on his throws and they were on time. That was with little time to prepare. Brohm has the tools, Edwards does not. This is why I think it is there belief in Brohm not Edwards that kept them from choosing a QB earlier.


they could like Brohm, but nothing is set in stone.

[BillsWin]

You forgot that Easley is an Andre Reed clone and Brown is our Tom Brady..........

;)

[Forward_Lateral]

I agree with everything except for #3. I don't think anyone can say that Nix and Gailey like or dislike any of Buffalo's QBs more than the other right now. I think they'll get a better idea during mini-camps and training camps, and go from there. To say they like Brohm over Fitz and Edwards is a bit of a stretch, considering there's all of one game of film on Brohm in the NFL.

[methos4ever]

Possible. But, I personally don't think they believe in Edwards. Edwards struggled to make routine throws last year. I don't care what he says about being confused by the coaches. An NFL throw does not require input from a coach. When Edwards was asked to throw the 15 yard out route last year he looked silly. That should have been seen by the coaches before drafting him.

Brohm on the other hand came in and made solid throws, he had good pace on his throws and they were on time. That was with little time to prepare. Brohm has the tools, Edwards does not. This is why I think it is there belief in Brohm not Edwards that kept them from choosing a QB earlier.
Brohm threw 29 passes all season. I doubt that they made a decision on Brohm over either Fitz or Edwards over that small a sample size. In fact, given the fact that Edwards was hearing 3 things from 3 different coaches, including sniping at the HC's plans, I can really understand why mental misfires out of any of the qbs happened.

I think going into this year's TC the competition will give us at least an adequate starter. I think it will be Edwards, but I won't jump off a cliff if it isn't.

But, we can agree to disagree. :D

[ct bills fan]

One can't address all need with one draft - especially with all the holes this team has. The one hole that's alarming is LT - hopefully they have a plan to bring in someone via FA or trade (Gaither/Adams??). QB can wait til next year - remember when SD Drafted Manning and traded him for Rivers? They did so cuz they didn't think Brees would amount to anything. Well we know what happened there. I think Nix wants to see what Edwards or Brohm can do this year before possibly addressing it in the QB rich draft next year.

[psubills62]

Nix has had success with OL from the mid-to-late rounds, so I'm not too upset for now. I would have preferred an OT in the earlier rounds, but they had other plans.

Moats running a 4.56 with that much bulk is pretty darn good. If that's the speed he plays at on the field, he should have the speed to be solid in coverage.

[k-oneputt]

Excellent post Mahdi. Probably the best I've read on this site in months.

[DraftBoy]

2) Why we drafted Troup so high: This was probably a shock pick to many but when you really analyze it, it makes perfect sense. For one, Troup is very very strong, he had 34 reps on the bench at the combine and that strength shows in his game. Not only did he have 34 reps, but he did it with very long arms, 34" arms on a 6'3 318 pound guy is impressive and is great for leverage and pass rushing. Two, Troup has great stamina, he plays a lot of the game and does not need to take plays off. Cody is not a guy you can count on for 4 quarters in the NFL. Troup is a guy that battles for 60 minutes. Seeing as how we don't have another true NT on the roster, we need a guy who can play a lot and not require constant breathers.

If you want to compare Troup to a current NFL NT that guy would be Jay Ratliff. They are almost carbon copy in terms of skill set, demeanor, size, arm length, and stamina. Torell Troup IMO was the only NT of his kind in the draft so taking him at 41 was a must. EXCELLENT PICK!

Go Bills!

Why did you change your position on taking a NT early? Prior to the draft you were very much against it saying on multiple occasions that you can find one late naming guys like Woods and Ivey as examples, but here you seem to be 100% behind Troup who was taken earlier than expected and in an early round which you were against before. So what changed your mind on an early round NT? Or was it just you didnt want Dan Williams?

[Mahdi]

Why did you change your position on taking a NT early? Prior to the draft you were very much against it saying on multiple occasions that you can find one late naming guys like Woods and Ivey as examples, but here you seem to be 100% behind Troup who was taken earlier than expected and in an early round which you were against before. So what changed your mind on an early round NT? Or was it just you didnt want Dan Williams?
My position was that I didn't want Dan Williams @9. And it was such because I knew that a one dimensional DT doesn't get selected in the top 10, despite the multitude of people on the board that said D. Williams at 9 made sense. The value simply doesn't fit, and that was proven when many NT needy teams passed on him early in the draft to take higher rated players. DW was taken #26 overall. I never mentioned Woods, that was you. I also thought we would draft Torell Troup, we got him a round earlier though.

I said you could pick up a NT later and we did. I also said we would not address/should not address OT at 9 and we didn't. Bulaga proved to be a 15-20 prospect, not top 10.

[DraftBoy]

My position was that I didn't want Dan Williams @9. And it was such because I knew that a one dimensional DT doesn't get selected in the top 10, despite the multitude of people on the board that said D. Williams at 9 made sense. The value simply doesn't fit, and that was proven when many NT needy teams passed on him early in the draft to take higher rated players. DW was taken #26 overall. I never mentioned Woods, that was you. I also thought we would draft Torell Troup, we got him a round earlier though.

I said you could pick up a NT later and we did. I also said we would not address/should not address OT at 9 and we didn't. Bulaga proved to be a 15-20 prospect, not top 10.

I get that, I thought it was more of an Anti-Williams thing all along. You know how important NT is to this scheme.

I never said you mentioned Woods, I mentioned him as a later round NT option.

[Mahdi]

I get that, I thought it was more of an Anti-Williams thing all along. You know how important NT is to this scheme.

I never said you mentioned Woods, I mentioned him as a later round NT option.
I do know how important NT is to the scheme. But my stance was that you don't pick a player simply because you have to fill that spot, the guy has to have top 10 pick qualities and he doesn't.

Suh and McCoy are top 10 guys because they are versatile, scheme diverse, and disruptive in the pass game as well as the run game.

Williams is only a run stopper, not enough for top 10 consideration.

[patmoran2006]

not picking a qb does not necesarily mean they like Brohm. It could mean that they didn't think any of the qb's were franchise material . It could mean they like Trent too amongst other things.

That is EXACTLY what it means.

Trust me, if Clausen was viewed as Franchise material at QB, he would've been the pick at 41.

[Mahdi]

That is EXACTLY what it means.

Trust me, if Clausen was viewed as Franchise material at QB, he would've been the pick at 41.
Of course it means they didn't view any of the QBs as franchise material. If they did they would have taken one as u said.

What I meant about Brohm was that it shows that they like him more than they like any of the QBs they could have taken early. Which makes sense because other than Bradford, Brohm was as good a prospect as any other QB in this draft and in most cases better.

[psubills62]

Also, another random thought concerning Troup's stamina: it has to be an issue, as we need to be able to beat New England. They often seem to use the no-huddle with great success against us. I wonder how well Terrence Cody would have held up against the no-huddle, going 10-11 plays right in a row each drive?

[Mahdi]

Sound reasoning. Just one small detail. I think Batten was timed at 4.71 in the 40. Moats was timed in the 4.56 range.
I heard 4.66, somewhere in the 4.6 range. Even if it is 4.71, that is pretty good.

[DraftBoy]

I do know how important NT is to the scheme. But my stance was that you don't pick a player simply because you have to fill that spot, the guy has to have top 10 pick qualities and he doesn't.

Suh and McCoy are top 10 guys because they are versatile, scheme diverse, and disruptive in the pass game as well as the run game.

Williams is only a run stopper, not enough for top 10 consideration.

I dont disagree, but the point you made over and over again why to not take a NT at all early, because you can consistently get one late. Jay Ratliff was one of your best examples of that.

Your stance about value and need are right on, however you cannot ignore that Troup was taken higher than his value dictated he should of been. Somewhat like Saffold was and how Cam Thomas was being looked at. Troup went a full round (arguably a round a half) higher than his skills determined he probably should of gone. Happens all the time, but to say Williams is not a top 10 pick but be happy about taking Troup who really wasnt a 2nd Round pick is inconsistent with your intial stance and a little confusing.

If you like Troup more thats one thing but even the biggest Troup supporters on this site and in the draft world know he went higher than he probably should have. That doesnt make it a bad pick at all, its just that its inconsistent with your own point about Williams.

[Mahdi]

I dont disagree, but the point you made over and over again why to not take a NT at all early, because you can consistently get one late. Jay Ratliff was one of your best examples of that.

Your stance about value and need are right on, however you cannot ignore that Troup was taken higher than his value dictated he should of been. Somewhat like Saffold was and how Cam Thomas was being looked at. Troup went a full round (arguably a round a half) higher than his skills determined he probably should of gone. Happens all the time, but to say Williams is not a top 10 pick but be happy about taking Troup who really wasnt a 2nd Round pick is inconsistent with your intial stance and a little confusing.

If you like Troup more thats one thing but even the biggest Troup supporters on this site and in the draft world know he went higher than he probably should have. That doesnt make it a bad pick at all, its just that its inconsistent with your own point about Williams.
Like I said, I was just very very against Williams at 9, because he was the only potential candidate to go in the first round out of the NTs. I always wanted a playmaker at 9, either Spiller or Bryant because I felt they were worthy of that spot. Bryant fell because of apparent character concerns but he is a top 10 or even top 5 talent.

At the end of the day I wanted our first round pick to be a talent that could not be had in the later rounds.

As for taking Troup in the second, yeah that is higher than I thought he would go but I also don't have all the information GMs do. For example, I don't have the luxury of watching all of Troup's games so I wouldn't know that he played a ton of snaps every game, I also overlooked his arm length which is impressive and is a huge asset for a NT of his style.

The other factor is FIT. Troup is a fit in what the Bills want to do apparently, due to his size, strength, mobility and stamina. All these factors had I known them would elevate Troup to a second round grade for the BILLS purposes.

If you compare Troup to Cody now, you have two completely different guys that would fit completely different in the Bills scheme. Cody would have to come off the field often and that would require KW to play maybe more than the Bills want, that puts a premium on Troup. Troup being 6'2 and change also gives him natural leverage advantage over other guys like Linval Joseph and Cody. That leverage advantage means he doesn't have to constantly work to get lower than the OL, he is already lower.

IMO, Troup represents 3rd round value to the NFL and second round value to the Bills because of some of the skills he brings to the table other NT candidates might not have.

To sum up, I was not against a NT, I was against not taking the best player available at 9.