Nix on why Tebow wasn’t in their plans

[justasportsfan]

“I went to every quarterback workout and I went to see every quarterback and that kind of thing,” said Nix. ”I love Tim Tebow and he’s going to be successful, but we didn’t have time to wait on a guy. We have too many needs. We can’t take a guy and have him sit him two or three years or whatever it takes. I don’t know how long it’ll take. He might come in and play right off, but we didn’t know that. So it was kind of a thing where we had to get somebody in that (draft) spot that was going to contribute early.”

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2010/04/29/nix-on-why-tebow-wasnt-in-their-plans/

[OpIv37]

So if we need guys who are going to contribute now, how does Nix explain EVERY DRAFT PICK AFTER SPILLER?

[THATHURMANATOR]

So if we need guys who are going to contribute now, how does Nix explain EVERY DRAFT PICK AFTER SPILLER?
Are you serious because every guy he took, outside of Brown has a chance to either start or contribute greatly next season..

[OpIv37]

Are you serious because every guy he took, outside of Brown has a chance to either start or contribute greatly next season..

a lot of guys he took have a chance to start. But starting is different than contributing. They're going to start simply because we have no one else. As far as actual impact this season, it's going to be Spiller and.... Spiller.

[elltrain22]

Are you serious because every guy he took, outside of Brown has a chance to either start or contribute greatly next season..

110% agree

[Ron Burgundy]

a lot of guys he took have a chance to start. But starting is different than contributing. They're going to start simply because we have no one else. As far as actual impact this season, it's going to be Spiller and.... Spiller.

Last year, did you call Jairus Byrd having a share of the league lead in interceptions?

[OpIv37]

Last year, did you call Jairus Byrd having a share of the league lead in interceptions?

yeah, just ignore the fact that the guy they took BEFORE Byrd did absolutely nothing....

[Slim]

yeah, just ignore the fact that the guy they took BEFORE Byrd did absolutely nothing....

Wood did pretty good till he got hurt. But, I agree with you on Maybin.

[Mr. Miyagi]

a lot of guys he took have a chance to start. But starting is different than contributing. They're going to start simply because we have no one else.
You're not making sense. If you're starting because you're better than the others on our roster, you're contributing more than the other.

Op you sound like Jerry Sullivan right now.

[Ron Burgundy]

yeah, just ignore the fact that the guy they took BEFORE Byrd did absolutely nothing....

I'm not ignoring it. In fact, I'm granting you that, if you're referring to Maybin.

I'm asking you a question, is all. Did you call Jairus Byrd sharing the league lead in interceptions?

[OpIv37]

You're not making sense. If you're starting because you're better than the others on our roster, you're contributing more than the other.

Op you sound like Jerry Sullivan right now.

I'm defining "contributing" as actually helping the team win, not simply being on the field.

If you're starting, you're not necessarily contributing. See Bell, Demetrius for starters. If every starter actually contributed, there is no way we would have lost 10 games.

[OpIv37]

I'm not ignoring it. I'm granting you that.

I'm asking you a question, is all. Did you call Jairus Byrd sharing the league lead in interceptions?

No, I have to admit I didn't call that one.

[justasportsfan]

So if we need guys who are going to contribute now, how does Nix explain EVERY DRAFT PICK AFTER SPILLER?
did you click on the link?


Buffalo did get a pair of players that figure to be early contributors in C.J. Spiller and Torell Troup

[OpIv37]

Troup HAS to play because he's the only NT on the team. He's the starter by default.

[Historian]

I think Maybin is going to flourish in the 3-4.

Could be the next Cornelius Bennett.

Just a hunch.

[justasportsfan]

Troup HAS to play because he's the only NT on the team. He's the starter by default.
It doesn't matter. You questioned anyone outside of Spiller. Nix drafted someone he figures will start. Thats your argument.

[mayotm]

No, I have to admit I didn't call that one.You mean you don't know everything???? I'm so disappointed.

[mayotm]

I think Maybin is going to flourish in the 3-4.

Could be the next Cornelius Bennett.

Just a hunch.You're in the wrong place to even suggest a player could turn things around. If a player doesn't contribute immediately, it means he will always suck.

[Ron Burgundy]

No, I have to admit I didn't call that one.

But you're don't think there's a possibility that you might not have the right call on Carrington or Moats, or any of the other picks?

[mysticsoto]

Troup HAS to play because he's the only NT on the team. He's the starter by default.

So if we didn't get Troup we'd have NO starter for NT, b'cse Kyle Williams isn't a real NT. So what's the problem? He's going to start...and contributing doesn't mean the team automatically wins. Byrd contributed well last year, we still lost. If we didn't get Carrington, we'd have poor DEs. If we didn't get some LBs suited for 3-4, we'd have poor starters...I'm not following your line of thinking...the big difference is that the guys that we got are suitable for their positions and can start immediately. Tebow would not be able to start immediately. Period.

[ddaryl]

didn;'t most of our players we drafted all get picked up by the Bills at solid value for the slots they were drafted in.

From what I have been reading the majority of the Bills draft choices had higher grades then where they were drafted...

I believe Troup was the acception but then again the moment the Bills took Troup there was a huge run on DT's.

Troup also has upside and work ethic to boot.


I fail to see what the Bills could've of done differently this draft outside of reaching for need positions to accomodate the draft experts perception that we had to address the needs at LT and QB immediately

I think we did a solid job getting bigger at OLB. We seemed to have picked up a solid WR candidate, got the best RB in the draft, a project QB, and lots of defenders who fit our nbew scheme.

again what do you do differently ???

[OpIv37]

It doesn't matter. You questioned anyone outside of Spiller. Nix drafted someone he figures will start. Thats your argument.
once again, starting is not the same as contributing. If he had waited until the 6th round to draft a NT, the guy would still start because we have no other options.

[justasportsfan]

If he had waited until the 6th round to draft a NT, the guy would still start because we have no other options.

says who, you or Nix?

You're saying a 6th round would start over Kyle or Maybe Stroud by default?

[OpIv37]

You're in the wrong place to even suggest a player could turn things around. If a player doesn't contribute immediately, it means he will always suck.

You really want to go down this road?

The CBA limits the amount of time that we have rights to a player (5 or 6 years, can't remember right now).

So, even if, by some miracle, Maybin puts on 30 lbs without losing speed and becomes Orakpo's equal, we lost a year of production because Orakpo was ready and Maybin wasn't.

And it's not that Maybin didn't contribute. He did NOTHING. Literally nothing. Even I didn't think he would be THAT bad.

[OpIv37]

says who, you or Nix?

You're saying a 6th round would start over Kyle or Maybe Stroud by default?

yup- Stroud and Williams aren't 3-4 NT's.

[justasportsfan]

yup- Stroud and Williams aren't 3-4 NT's.
meh. You're not a coach so you don't know that.



NIx drafted Troup to start and yes because it was a need. So he addressed it whether it was by default or not. YOu can't ignore Troup because it is by default.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'm defining "contributing" as actually helping the team win, not simply being on the field.

If you're starting, you're not necessarily contributing. See Bell, Demetrius for starters. If every starter actually contributed, there is no way we would have lost 10 games.
If you're the best player on the roster for that position, you're contributing to the team. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

[mayotm]

You really want to go down this road?

The CBA limits the amount of time that we have rights to a player (5 or 6 years, can't remember right now).

So, even if, by some miracle, Maybin puts on 30 lbs without losing speed and becomes Orakpo's equal, we lost a year of production because Orakpo was ready and Maybin wasn't.

And it's not that Maybin didn't contribute. He did NOTHING. Literally nothing. Even I didn't think he would be THAT bad.Gosh, I certainy don't want to go down the road with you. I mean, I don't share the same opinion as you do. Thus, I must be informed or just plain stupid. I wouldn't stand a chance against you.

[OpIv37]

If you're the best player on the roster for that position, you're contributing to the team. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

If you're starting and the team isn't winning due at least partially to your poor play, then you are NOT contributing.

If you think simply starting because you're less bad than someone else on the roster means that you are contributing, you've accepted mediocrity.

[OpIv37]

Gosh, I certainy don't want to go down the road with you. I mean, I don't share the same opinion as you do. Thus, I must be informed or just plain stupid. I wouldn't stand a chance against you.

Best case scenario: we lost a year of productivity. That's the BEST possible outcome of the Maybin pick.

Worst case scenario: he continues to play the way he's been playing and is a complete bust.

That has nothing to do with my opinion. That's simply how it is.

[mayotm]

Best case scenario: we lost a year of productivity. That's the BEST possible outcome of the Maybin pick.

Worst case scenario: he continues to play the way he's been playing and is a complete bust.

That has nothing to do with my opinion. That's simply how it is.Can't change the past. Plus, nobody was debating Maybin versus Orakpo. Previously in the thread, somebody posted that the 3 - 4 was a better fit for Maybin and that he was going to be more productive. I sarcastically responded that it's silly to suggest that Maybin could improve. Most aren't pleased that Maybin was drafted last year and nobody is pleased with his production. That stated, he's very young and will be playing a position that appears to be better suited for him. It's not unreasonable to think he will improve.

[trapezeus]

bills were talking best player available on a team that had zero talent. everyone is an upgrade at this point. and a lot of those defensive guys are better fits for 3-4 than what we currently have. i'd say that's early contributor.

it's not going to put the stop on the 3-13 season we'll have, but it'll make 2011 or 12 a lot more exciting. i trust the methodology solely because it wasn't the old crew's way of doing things.

[Iehoshua]

So instead of taking a QB we have to wait on to develop, we have depth chart of QBs who will never develop into anything but career backups.
:brilliant:

[OpIv37]

So instead of taking a QB we have to wait on to develop, we have depth chart of QBs who will never develop into anything but career backups.
:brilliant:

Or better yet, instead of taking a QB that will take a year or two to develop, we wait a full year before getting a QB. Huh?


Don't get me wrong- as much as I hate the FO and question their draft, I don't blame them for not getting a QB. There simply weren't any viable options. But Nix's stated reasons for not getting Tebow seem inconsistent with some of his other actions.

[Bill Cody]

Best case scenario: we lost a year of productivity. That's the BEST possible outcome of the Maybin pick.

Worst case scenario: he continues to play the way he's been playing and is a complete bust.

That has nothing to do with my opinion. That's simply how it is.

This is true. But so what?

[OpIv37]

This is true. But so what?

So the justification for the Maybin pick was based on this assumption that he has a higher ceiling- that he's the better long-term prospect. But while he's developing, we're losing that productivity that Orakpo already has. So, for teams like Buffalo that tend to let guys walk, the guy that's ready immediately is a better choice than the guy with the higher long- term potential.

[Dicknoze69]

Or better yet, instead of taking a QB that will take a year or two to develop, we wait a full year before getting a QB. Huh?


Don't get me wrong- as much as I hate the FO and question their draft, I don't blame them for not getting a QB. There simply weren't any viable options. But Nix's stated reasons for not getting Tebow seem inconsistent with some of his other actions.

Did you expect Nix to come out and say "Tebow sucks and will be a bust"? It's GM-speak; they obviously didn't like the QBs this year, but rather then publicly blast them, he chose a more diplomatic approach.

[OpIv37]

Did you expect Nix to come out and say "Tebow sucks and will be a bust"? It's GM-speak; they obviously didn't like the QBs this year, but rather then publicly blast them, he chose a more diplomatic approach.

I hear ya, but it seems like a long way to go when he could have just said "With our switch to the 3-4, we viewed NT as a more crucial need than QB. "

[Jeff1220]

:dizzy:
http://komplexify.com/math/images/CircularReasoning.gif

[Ron Burgundy]

I hear ya, but it seems like a long way to go when he could have just said "With our switch to the 3-4, we viewed NT as a more crucial need than QB. "

Oh, now I get it. This is about perception. You want nicer phraseology!

[Tatonka]

yeah, just ignore the fact that the guy they took BEFORE Byrd did absolutely nothing....

eric wood was the pick right before that.. he started from day one..

good point.. not sure what your proving though.

[OpIv37]

eric wood was the pick right before that.. he started from day one..

good point.. not sure what your proving though.

I meant Maybin- should have said two picks before him.

But as far as Wood and Levitre are concerned, they were grossly overrated by this board. They did ok, and they both look like they'll have bright futures (depending on Wood's injury), but they weren't as great as everyone makes them out to be. They started because we had no one else.

[Saratoga Slim]

I think Maybin is going to flourish in the 3-4.

Could be the next Cornelius Bennett.

Just a hunch.

I am optimistic about this as well. Last year, most of the criticism was that Maybin was too small to play DE in a 4-3, and that he was better suited to play rush linebacker in a 3-4.

Well, we have a 3-4 now. And he's now a rush linebacker. Who knows if he's the allstar he should be as a top-10 pick, but I'm guessing he contributes.

[SquishDaFish]

I think his point was if you take a QB in rd 1 or 2 then he either starts right away or year after. Its stupid to pick one now unless hes going to be an instant starter they want to make sure one of the guys they have now arent going to turn into something first.

[John Doe]

Levitre contributed last year.

He was named to the 2009 NFL All Rookie team. By this criteria he was arguably the best rookie interior linemen in the league last season.

When asked, he played at left tackle and contributed there as well.

[HAMMER]

So if we need guys who are going to contribute now, how does Nix explain EVERY DRAFT PICK AFTER SPILLER?

He clearly said "in that spot".

[THATHURMANATOR]

Op you pull this nonsense at least once a day. Continue to argue when you are clearly wrong.

In your scenario/definition of contributing, Byrd didn't contribute even though he led the league in INTs because the team lost....

[OpIv37]

Op you pull this nonsense at least once a day. Continue to argue when you are clearly wrong.

In your scenario/definition of contributing, Byrd didn't contribute even though he led the league in INTs because the team lost....

That wasn't even CLOSE to what I said. Clearly, getting that many INTs is contributing. But simply being a "starter", like, say, Bell, isn't contributing. Just like I say for the GM and coaches: performance dictates competence, not title.

You always say I'm clearly wrong, but I've been right a LOT more than the homers and a LOT more than people like you want to admit.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That wasn't even CLOSE to what I said. Clearly, getting that many INTs is contributing. But simply being a "starter", like, say, Bell, isn't contributing. Just like I say for the GM and coaches: performance dictates competence, not title.

You always say I'm clearly wrong, but I've been right a LOT more than the homers and a LOT more than people like you want to admit.
No you haven't

[MikeInRoch]

So fine - you don't know if any of our draft picks but Spiller will "contribute". Are you suggesting there were other players that they could have grabbed instead that had a higher chance of contributing?

[OpIv37]

No you haven't

Really? Edwards, Maybin, Whitner, McCargo, I've been within one game of the final record for at least the last 3 years. I was the only one who predicted the collapse in 2005 after the almost playoff run at the end of 2004 (well, me and Wys). When Jauron was first hired, I said that he'd blow it and in 3-4 years we'd be right back to rebuilding. Guess what happened?

So go ahead and say that I'm never right, but it's simply not true, and the evidence is all over this board.

[OpIv37]

So fine - you don't know if any of our draft picks but Spiller will "contribute". Are you suggesting there were other players that they could have grabbed instead that had a higher chance of contributing?

I don't know, but that's not the point. The point is that Nix said he passed on Tebow because Tebow wouldn't contribute immediately, but none of his draft picks are going to contribute immediately other than Spiller. So he's contradicting himself. i

[Lexwhat]

So if we need guys who are going to contribute now, how does Nix explain EVERY DRAFT PICK AFTER SPILLER?

I don't get it?

Most of the guys we drafted will start (or get a significant amount of playing time) this season (except for that QB). This draft focused heavily on Defense, which was necessary since we are switching schemes and need players that fit it.

Troup was taken in the 2nd Round (he had a 2nd-3rd round draft grade), and we filled a position of need when we took him. Even you said we needed to draft a DT early. 2nd Round is early enough, IMO.

Unfortunately, our team had way too many holes (which Buddy Nix acknowledged), and there's no way 1 draft was going to fill them all. We still have GAPING holes at WR, OL, and QB -- I assume next year's draft will focus on Offense.

When a team has too many holes, any knowledgeable football fan knows that Free Agency is an extremely stupid way to fill them all. Like it or not, it takes time to re-build. The Saints were a huge exception to this (they found a lot of players in Free Agency), and the major reason why was that they found Drew Brees. A story like that only happens once every 10 years.

Look around the Board -- there's only a few morons predicting Playoffs this year. Most people are predicting 4-6 wins this season.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Really? Edwards, Maybin, Whitner, McCargo, I've been within one game of the final record for at least the last 3 years. I was the only one who predicted the collapse in 2005 after the almost playoff run at the end of 2004 (well, me and Wys). When Jauron was first hired, I said that he'd blow it and in 3-4 years we'd be right back to rebuilding. Guess what happened?

So go ahead and say that I'm never right, but it's simply not true, and the evidence is all over this board.
You didn't know anything on Edwards. You can't know yet on Maybin. I can't remember too many people happy with Whitner being drafted in that position. We were all right on McCargo.

Again no one liked Jauron. Do you want us to print you a medal for following the masses?

[Lexwhat]

I meant Maybin- should have said two picks before him.

But as far as Wood and Levitre are concerned, they were grossly overrated by this board. They did ok, and they both look like they'll have bright futures (depending on Wood's injury), but they weren't as great as everyone makes them out to be. They started because we had no one else.

Buddy Nix seems to now be fully controlling our draft, and it's obvious that his philosophy is different than what the Bills used to do. IMO, you should wait and see how our draft picks develop throughout the year before judging him.

For the record, Buddy Nix did not endorse the Aaron Maybin pick.

[Prov401]

So if we need guys who are going to contribute now, how does Nix explain EVERY DRAFT PICK AFTER SPILLER?

Spiller, Troup, and Carrington, are going to start.

Easly and Calloway have a shot at beating out their competition as well.

Batten, Moats, and Wang will definitely see the field this year.

I'd like you to explain how 'every draft pick after Spiller' won't impact the 2010 roster, and be able to contribute immediately? Because I see at the very least 3 starters out of this year's draft.

[better days]

I don't know, but that's not the point. The point is that Nix said he passed on Tebow because Tebow wouldn't contribute immediately, but none of his draft picks are going to contribute immediately other than Spiller. So he's contradicting himself. i

He clearly said in that spot. That sounds like he meant a top 10 draft pick needs to contribute NOW. I doubt he meant every player he drafted needed to play now that is just crazy. I think the Bills would have drafted Tebbow with a pick other than #9 but Denver got him 1st.

[Oaf]

On one hand, we're drafting to maximize talent on our roster 2-3 years down the road, on the other we're not drafting players that can't contribute immediately? :scratch:

[Bill Cody]

So the justification for the Maybin pick was based on this assumption that he has a higher ceiling- that he's the better long-term prospect. But while he's developing, we're losing that productivity that Orakpo already has. So, for teams like Buffalo that tend to let guys walk, the guy that's ready immediately is a better choice than the guy with the higher long- term potential.

I just called Mike Shanahan and he said no go to swapping Maybin for Orakpo. So what's our next step? Cancel the season? Not sure where you're going with all this. We all know the Bills have drafted horribly for years. There's a laundry list of problems. We haven't come close to addressing them all. I personally might have made a slightly different approach to this draft but I am not panning it, we look like we filled some holes and we hope that we hit on a couple late rounders.

But nobody knows whether that's true or not. But instead of being hopeful about what we might have done right you feel the need to just piss on everything. Does that make you happy? Just asking.

With regard to Nix's comments on Tebow, my translation of what he was saying was "look I'm installing a new defense that requires a lot of new players to run. If I'm going to draft a project at QB it will be in the 7th round not the 1st".

With regard to Maybin, my suggestion to others that don't want to just look at this in the worst possible light is this: consider Maybin a 1st rounder THIS year.
The truth is this:
1) Maybin came out too early last year, he wasn't close to ready physically or mentally and then he held out to boot.
2) He was NEVER going to make it as a DE, ridiculoulsy undersized.
3) He is actually a nice fit at OLB size wise and he has a leg up this year in understanding what it takes to prepare to be a pro.
4) So beating up the Bills for taking Maybin is more than pointless, it may be dead wrong! Again I ask anyone who's reading this to close your eyes and pretend Maybin was drafted THIS year. He's still only 22 years old. He's in a position that suits he size and speed. He may do very well at OLB. Last year is IRRELEVANT.

[OpIv37]

I don't get it?

Most of the guys we drafted will start (or get a significant amount of playing time) this season (except for that QB). This draft focused heavily on Defense, which was necessary since we are switching schemes and need players that fit it.

Troup was taken in the 2nd Round (he had a 2nd-3rd round draft grade), and we filled a position of need when we took him. Even you said we needed to draft a DT early. 2nd Round is early enough, IMO.

Unfortunately, our team had way too many holes (which Buddy Nix acknowledged), and there's no way 1 draft was going to fill them all. We still have GAPING holes at WR, OL, and QB -- I assume next year's draft will focus on Offense.

When a team has too many holes, any knowledgeable football fan knows that Free Agency is an extremely stupid way to fill them all. Like it or not, it takes time to re-build. The Saints were a huge exception to this (they found a lot of players in Free Agency), and the major reason why was that they found Drew Brees. A story like that only happens once every 10 years.

Look around the Board -- there's only a few morons predicting Playoffs this year. Most people are predicting 4-6 wins this season.
first, as I already clarified, starting and contributing are not the same thing. Many of the rookies will start due to lack of other options, but most will not contribute to winning.

Second, I agree that filling every hole with FA's is stupid, but filling NONE of them isn't going to help either. In FA, we brought in Green, who is a downgrade from Butler, Davis and Edwards. The last two will help with their 3-4 experience, but they hardly fill glaring needs. At the very least, they should have brought in a journeyman NT. Several were available.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Troup HAS to play because he's the only NT on the team. He's the starter by default.

Maybe we should all complain really hard until we sign all the top-flight free agents for the next 3 years and get picks 1-10 in the first round of the draft so we can have superstars everywhere.

[ZAZusmc03]

This whole Orakpo/Maybin argument is ******ed. Orakpo did well in a 3-4, where Maybin is a better fit. If you think for 1 second that Orakpo would have done stellar in Buffalo this past season, I have to question your intelligence. Orakpo would have been in the same position. Minimal playing time and at an uncomfortable fit as a 4-3 DE.

[Philagape]

Maybin's career starts over this year. Clean slate in a 3-4.

As for the argument that Maybin will always be a worse pick than Orakpo because of his lost rookie season, remember that Maybin is almost two years younger. Age-wise, their careers are at least a season apart.

[Oldbillsfan]

Maybin is almost like another first round pick this year, since the Bills had no idea what to do with him last season.

[Philagape]

Maybin is almost like another first round pick this year, since the Bills had no idea what to do with him last season.

Yup. He just turned 22, so he's the right age.

[Mike in Syracuse]

The argument of starting vs. contributing has lowered my IQ by at least 10 points. I'm three pages in and I'm still waiting for a cogent point.

[YardRat]

Jim Kelly didn't take a snap for three years for the Bills after being drafted.

Bruce Smith only started 13 games, on a 2-14 team, with only 6.5 sacks, 48 tackles, 0 forced fumbles.

Thurman Thomas only rushed for 881 yards and 2 TDs, and fumbled 9 times.

Andre Reed was drafted in the fourth round out of perennial powerhouse Kutztown State.

Wow, am I pissed we wasted those draft picks and didn't take Todd Blackledge, Ron Holmes, Gaston Green and Al Toon instead.

[JCBills]

a lot of guys he took have a chance to start. But starting is different than contributing. They're going to start simply because we have no one else. As far as actual impact this season, it's going to be Spiller and.... Spiller.

Troup and Carrington should be impact players this season, and Easley can be a difference maker at WR. Basically everyone else after that has the chance to see a decent amount of PT.

[Griff]

a lot of guys he took have a chance to start. But starting is different than contributing. They're going to start simply because we have no one else. As far as actual impact this season, it's going to be Spiller and.... Spiller.

all the guys we took after Spiller was after Tebow too... so really they do not apply to the situation.

[Typ0]

I think Maybin is going to flourish in the 3-4.

Could be the next Cornelius Bennett.

Just a hunch.


If this happens will maybin suddenly be a nix pick instead of jauron pick?

[Typ0]

I love this logic! According to you every guy who sucks wind for a couple years is going to take his team to the superbowl. You can't quote the exceptions to the rule as support of an unknown outcome yet bills fans are masters at it. Also, I wonder what would have happened to these guys had they not been put together in the right situation.


Jim Kelly didn't take a snap for three years for the Bills after being drafted.

Bruce Smith only started 13 games, on a 2-14 team, with only 6.5 sacks, 48 tackles, 0 forced fumbles.

Thurman Thomas only rushed for 881 yards and 2 TDs, and fumbled 9 times.

Andre Reed was drafted in the fourth round out of perennial powerhouse Kutztown State.

Wow, am I pissed we wasted those draft picks and didn't take Todd Blackledge, Ron Holmes, Gaston Green and Al Toon instead.

[acehole]

So if we need guys who are going to contribute now, how does Nix explain EVERY DRAFT PICK AFTER SPILLER?

Those guys (Other picks) in theory need a year. Deffensive player can rotate also so not as crucial...just an educated guess.

[YardRat]

I love this logic! According to you every guy who sucks wind for a couple years is going to take his team to the superbowl. You can't quote the exceptions to the rule as support of an unknown outcome yet bills fans are masters at it. Also, I wonder what would have happened to these guys had they not been put together in the right situation.

Actually, according to me, it's pretty ridiculous to disregard players that haven't even been fitted for a uniform yet, or in Maybin's case specifically, count him out after a single season that everybody already knows was spent trying fit a square peg in a round hole.

Maybin might crash and burn, and become another Erik Flowers or Mike Williams, and we can't discount that possibility. At this time, however, we also can't ignore the possibility of the kid becoming a player and if he does, who really gives a **** what he did his first year in the league?

[OpIv37]

I just called Mike Shanahan and he said no go to swapping Maybin for Orakpo. So what's our next step? Cancel the season? Not sure where you're going with all this. We all know the Bills have drafted horribly for years. There's a laundry list of problems. We haven't come close to addressing them all. I personally might have made a slightly different approach to this draft but I am not panning it, we look like we filled some holes and we hope that we hit on a couple late rounders.

But nobody knows whether that's true or not. But instead of being hopeful about what we might have done right you feel the need to just piss on everything. Does that make you happy? Just asking.

With regard to Nix's comments on Tebow, my translation of what he was saying was "look I'm installing a new defense that requires a lot of new players to run. If I'm going to draft a project at QB it will be in the 7th round not the 1st".

With regard to Maybin, my suggestion to others that don't want to just look at this in the worst possible light is this: consider Maybin a 1st rounder THIS year.
The truth is this:
1) Maybin came out too early last year, he wasn't close to ready physically or mentally and then he held out to boot.
2) He was NEVER going to make it as a DE, ridiculoulsy undersized.
3) He is actually a nice fit at OLB size wise and he has a leg up this year in understanding what it takes to prepare to be a pro.
4) So beating up the Bills for taking Maybin is more than pointless, it may be dead wrong! Again I ask anyone who's reading this to close your eyes and pretend Maybin was drafted THIS year. He's still only 22 years old. He's in a position that suits he size and speed. He may do very well at OLB. Last year is IRRELEVANT.

And once again, we're back to hope vs expectations. Yes, I HOPE the Bills hit on all their draft picks and these guys surprise us. But I don't EXPECT that for a number of reasons that I already stated. I don't feel the need to piss on everything. I feel the need to call it as I see it, and right now I see a team with a ton of holes that's counting on late-round rookies. I certainly don't feel the need to bury my head in the sand and pretend everything is OK, as many here want me to.

Regarding Nix's comment, if that's what he meant, then why didn't he just say it like you did?

Beating up the Bills for taking Maybin is no more or less pointless than anything else on this board. The Bills took him too early, they wasted a year of his rights, and when you take someone that early, there is no guarantee they will EVER develop. As long as Orakpo is outplaying Maybin, the bad decision to take Maybin is holding this team back, You can try to brush it off as the past and pretend it has no consequences, but it does. It may be dead wrong, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. It's a chance I've taken many times in the past, and I've been right far more often than not.

[Lexwhat]

first, as I already clarified, starting and contributing are not the same thing. Many of the rookies will start due to lack of other options, but most will not contribute to winning.

Second, I agree that filling every hole with FA's is stupid, but filling NONE of them isn't going to help either. In FA, we brought in Green, who is a downgrade from Butler, Davis and Edwards. The last two will help with their 3-4 experience, but they hardly fill glaring needs. At the very least, they should have brought in a journeyman NT. Several were available.

Yes, I could have identified 2-3 Unrestricted free agents that would've started or helped this team, but I don't think it would have made much difference in the grand scheme of things. It might have translated to 1 extra win this season. Does that really matter??

History shows that the MAJORITY of "hot" free agents are productive for about 3 seasons (or less) before they start slowing down. Otherwise, they mostly play role positions after that. That's a fact.

Thus, the best time to sign free agents is when a team already has a foundation in place, and is certain to be a perennial playoff team for the next few seasons. Buffalo does not fit that description, unfortunately.

I, for one, have extremely low expectations this season. The O-Line is probably the worst in the league, and we have no WRs or TEs of note. We have no franchise QB. Lee Evans is fine as a WR, but he's not a dominant #1 in this league.

My advice? Enjoy the NFL this season, and hope that the Bills can improve and get better. If you have high hopes, prepare for disappointment.

[OpIv37]

The argument of starting vs. contributing has lowered my IQ by at least 10 points. I'm three pages in and I'm still waiting for a cogent point.

It's really not that difficult. Did Demetrius Bell contribute to this team winning last year? Kawika Mitchell? Marshawn Lynch? Terrell Owens? Any of our QB's? It's entirely possible to be on the field and not do jack ****. Starting and contributing are NOT the same thing.

This team likes to take a bunch of rookies and throw them on the field. Sometimes they contribute (Byrd), usually they do not.

The point is quite simple.

[OpIv37]

My advice? Enjoy the NFL this season, and hope that the Bills can improve and get better. If you have high hopes, prepare for disappointment.

I haven't had high hopes for this team since, well, I really can't remember.

[OpIv37]

Maybe we should all complain really hard until we sign all the top-flight free agents for the next 3 years and get picks 1-10 in the first round of the draft so we can have superstars everywhere.

no one said anything about top flight free agents, but there were several NT's available who went to other 3-4 teams for reasonable contracts. We got Edwards and Davis, why not do the same thing for an NT.

Your argument is based on the assumption that we either do nothing in FA or go for broke in FA. The reality is that there is a middle ground. Every time someone criticizes the way this team acts in FA, someone makes the same ridiculous argument you just made. But the reality is that this team's FA signings have been piss-poor whereas our division opponents continually use it to get better. Wanting the team to do better in FA does NOT mean the same thing as demanding we sign Haynesworth to a $100 million contract.

[OpIv37]

This whole Orakpo/Maybin argument is ******ed. Orakpo did well in a 3-4, where Maybin is a better fit. If you think for 1 second that Orakpo would have done stellar in Buffalo this past season, I have to question your intelligence. Orakpo would have been in the same position. Minimal playing time and at an uncomfortable fit as a 4-3 DE.

Stellar? No.

Better than Maybin? Absolutely.

[YardRat]

no one said anything about top flight free agents, but there were several NT's available who went to other 3-4 teams for reasonable contracts. We got Edwards and Davis, why not do the same thing for an NT.

Your argument is based on the assumption that we either do nothing in FA or go for broke in FA. The reality is that there is a middle ground. Every time someone criticizes the way this team acts in FA, someone makes the same ridiculous argument you just made. But the reality is that this team's FA signings have been piss-poor whereas our division opponents continually use it to get better. Wanting the team to do better in FA does NOT mean the same thing as demanding we sign Haynesworth to a $100 million contract.

Why don't you lay out a realistic free agent signing list from this past off-season, and re-do the draft pick by pick, so that we can all compare apples to apples in 2-3 years.

[OpIv37]

Why don't you lay out a realistic free agent signing list from this past off-season, and re-do the draft pick by pick, so that we can all compare apples to apples in 2-3 years.

If we did a better job in FA, then the draft would have been different. At the very least, we should have gotten at least one NT- arguably 2- in FA.

This team had some MAJOR needs this off-season- QB, OT, WR, NT. Why don't you explain to me how this team is justified in doing NOTHING about ANY of them in FA?

[Ron Burgundy]

\This team had some MAJOR needs this off-season- QB, OT, WR, NT. Why don't you explain to me how this team is justified in doing NOTHING about ANY of them in FA?

Who would you have signed at those positions this offseason?

[OpIv37]

Who would you have signed at those positions this offseason?

like I already said, there were several NT's available. QB- there wasn't much they could do. WR and LT- there were people out there- I just have to look it up.

And BTW, this is just a hobby for me. It's the FO's FULL TIME JOB. Our opponents have no problems finding FA's who fit their needs- what is this team's excuse?

[Ron Burgundy]

like I already said, there were several NT's available. QB- there wasn't much they could do. WR and LT- there were people out there- I just have to look it up.

And BTW, this is just a hobby for me. It's the FO's FULL TIME JOB. Our opponents have no problems finding FA's who fit their needs- what is this team's excuse?

I was just asking who you would have signed. Still curious, actually. I know it's not your full time job, so take your time.

[mysticsoto]

like I already said, there were several NT's available. QB- there wasn't much they could do. WR and LT- there were people out there- I just have to look it up.

And BTW, this is just a hobby for me. It's the FO's FULL TIME JOB. Our opponents have no problems finding FA's who fit their needs- what is this team's excuse?

You're making assumptions that just any FA would want to come here...

[OpIv37]

You're making assumptions that just any FA would want to come here...

look at how many guys Detroit and Oakland brought in. If they're getting people, what's our excuse?

[mysticsoto]

look at how many guys Detroit and Oakland brought in. If they're getting people, what's our excuse?

Come back to me when Oakland and Detroit are in the top ranking teams in the league...just b'cse you acquire FAs doesn't mean it makes you a better team.

[YardRat]

If we did a better job in FA, then the draft would have been different. At the very least, we should have gotten at least one NT- arguably 2- in FA.

This team had some MAJOR needs this off-season- QB, OT, WR, NT. Why don't you explain to me how this team is justified in doing NOTHING about ANY of them in FA?

I'm not really arguing with you...I would've liked to see Buffalo a little more active in FA also (specifically LT and maybe WR, not so much NT and QB), but considering the dearth of talent in the market this off-season I can understand to a certain point why they didn't go all out. Why overpay for mediocrity when you're already mediocre? I don't see any sense in making lateral acquisitions, just for the sake of changing names on a uniform.

Who were they going to sign at NT? Kendrick Clancy, Dusty Dvoracek, Aubrayo Franklin (franchised), Jason Ferguson-Ryan Pickett-Bryan Robinson-Ian Scott-Gabe Watson (all returned to their teams) or Jamaal Williams? Really, there weren't many viable options, especially for that position. The first two are still available...Do you want them?

As far as Oakland, big deal...they signed Kyle Boller, Rock Cartwright and Chris Cooper...No thanks. Detroit? Yes, they got Vanden Bosch and maybe Burleson, but really nobody else of any significance. Arguably, Buffalo acquired as many, or more, possible contributors via FA than both of those teams.

[Night Train]

RIP - Tebow To Buffalo Threads.

Those people can now go back to watching American Idol.

[jamze132]

Man, you ****ers hijacked this thread Iranian style!

Nix said he didn't want to take a QB that he had to wait on like 2-3 years. He must think extremely highly of Brown in the 7th. I wonder if he will get the nod this year...

[OpIv37]

Come back to me when Oakland and Detroit are in the top ranking teams in the league...just b'cse you acquire FAs doesn't mean it makes you a better team.
Once again, using the extremes approach. Teams improve via FA every single year. I can't even believe people are defending this team for not addressing any of the major holes in FA. Rebuilding is about improving. You don't improve with low round draft picks an UDFA's alone.

[mysticsoto]

Once again, using the extremes approach. Teams improve via FA every single year. I can't even believe people are defending this team for not addressing any of the major holes in FA. Rebuilding is about improving. You don't improve with low round draft picks an UDFA's alone.

You also don't force FAs/personnel into your scheme that don't fit or that are aging and want to be overpaid.

And for the record, we signed 12 people in the offseason. It is likely YOUR opinion that they are not worth anything, but you really don't KNOW that.

[OpIv37]

You also don't force FAs/personnel into your scheme that don't fit or that are aging and want to be overpaid.

And for the record, we signed 12 people in the offseason. It is likely YOUR opinion that they are not worth anything, but you really don't KNOW that.

My opinion has been fairly accurate. The Bills haven't won **** in a decade. Performance dictates competence, not title.

[Bill Cody]

And once again, we're back to hope vs expectations. Yes, I HOPE the Bills hit on all their draft picks and these guys surprise us. But I don't EXPECT that for a number of reasons that I already stated. I don't feel the need to piss on everything. I feel the need to call it as I see it, and right now I see a team with a ton of holes that's counting on late-round rookies. I certainly don't feel the need to bury my head in the sand and pretend everything is OK, as many here want me to.

Regarding Nix's comment, if that's what he meant, then why didn't he just say it like you did?

Beating up the Bills for taking Maybin is no more or less pointless than anything else on this board. The Bills took him too early, they wasted a year of his rights, and when you take someone that early, there is no guarantee they will EVER develop. As long as Orakpo is outplaying Maybin, the bad decision to take Maybin is holding this team back, You can try to brush it off as the past and pretend it has no consequences, but it does. It may be dead wrong, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. It's a chance I've taken many times in the past, and I've been right far more often than not.

We seem to agree that all we have is hope, yet you're always the glass is half empty guy. I think that's a defense mechanism for you, whine and whine and whine that we suck, we can't do anything right and when we do a) you're proven right and b) it doesn't hurt. If that's your schtick and it works for you, go for it.

Nix said what he said the way he said it because he was trying hard not to say anything negative about Tebow. But clearly he views him as a project and that can't make sense for a team changing to a 3-4.

Maybin? Whether he turns out to be a bust or not, he was going to get chosen within a pick or 2 from where he was chosen. This was not a Whitner/McCargo type reach. Pass rushers with a quick 1st step get picked early every year. This year is a new opportunity for Maybin in the right position. I'm optimistic about his chances.

[OpIv37]

We seem to agree that all we have is hope, yet you're always the glass is half empty guy. I think that's a defense mechanism for you, whine and whine and whine that we suck, we can't do anything right and when we do a) you're proven right and b) it doesn't hurt. If that's your schtick and it works for you, go for it.

Nix said what he said the way he said it because he was trying hard not to say anything negative about Tebow. But clearly he views him as a project and that can't make sense for a team changing to a 3-4.

Maybin? Whether he turns out to be a bust or not, he was going to get chosen within a pick or 2 from where he was chosen. This was not a Whitner/McCargo type reach. Pass rushers with a quick 1st step get picked early every year. This year is a new opportunity for Maybin in the right position. I'm optimistic about his chances.

Actually, in reality it's quite the opposite. When I'm right, I can't even brag about it because it means the team is losing again. I never enjoy losing, even when it means I'm right. And expecting a loss doesn't make it any easier. I simply enjoy trying to make reasonable predictions and being able to justify them. Some people don't want to be thinking about how bad the team is when it's only April, and they especially don't like it when they read logical explanations that they can't counter.

I'm not optimistic at all about Maybin and I think the Bills FO just screwed up, but I do think he's a better fit for 3-4 OLB than 4-3 DE and I'm hoping that maybe he won't be completely useless in the new D.

[mysticsoto]

My opinion has been fairly accurate. The Bills haven't won **** in a decade. Performance dictates competence, not title.

We've also had poor management - and that might have been the bigger reason why we've been failing!

[Bill Cody]

Actually, in reality it's quite the opposite. When I'm right, I can't even brag about it because it means the team is losing again. I never enjoy losing, even when it means I'm right. And expecting a loss doesn't make it any easier. I simply enjoy trying to make reasonable predictions and being able to justify them. Some people don't want to be thinking about how bad the team is when it's only April, and they especially don't like it when they read logical explanations that they can't counter.

I'm not optimistic at all about Maybin and I think the Bills FO just screwed up, but I do think he's a better fit for 3-4 OLB than 4-3 DE and I'm hoping that maybe he won't be completely useless in the new D.

Well you are a loyal fan I give you props for that. And granted there is no track record to base improvement on. But that doesn't mean a new coach and GM can't succeed, right?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I love this logic! According to you every guy who sucks wind for a couple years is going to take his team to the superbowl. You can't quote the exceptions to the rule as support of an unknown outcome yet bills fans are masters at it. Also, I wonder what would have happened to these guys had they not been put together in the right situation.

Most players that are successful take a year or two or even three to develop. I don't think that's the exception to the rule, I think that is the standard. Few players become superstars, that is true, but it takes time. Some of those players named contributed in their first year but did not always start.

[BillsOwnAll]

yeah, just ignore the fact that the guy they took BEFORE Byrd did absolutely nothing....


He was a rookie. Why do you get so mad at him becuase he wasnt a probowler his rookie year!

[justasportsfan]

like I already said, there were several NT's available. QB- there wasn't much they could do. WR and LT- there were people out there- I just have to look it up.


we did that in the past in other positions like OL. Remember Dockery and Walker which you were happy about? How did that turn out?

We brought in TO last year , how did that turn out?

[OpIv37]

we did that in the past in other positions like OL. Remember Dockery and Walker which you were happy about? How did that turn out?

We brought in TO last year , how did that turn out?

See here's the problem- we picked the WRONG FA's. FA's can help if you pay the RIGHT people. Levy and Brandon were ****ing HORRIBLE with their FA selections. Don't assume that FA's can't help just because those two were incompetent at it.

[justasportsfan]

See here's the problem- we picked the WRONG FA's. FA's can help if you pay the RIGHT people. Levy and Brandon were ****ing HORRIBLE with their FA selections. Don't assume that FA's can't help just because those two were incompetent at it.


Oh so now we picked the wrong FA's. you were all ok with Dockery and Walker. So you were wrong too. If we grabbed any FA's this year you'd be *****ing about them too.

So do tell us, who are the right FA's we should have brought in?

In your world whether Nix builds through FA or draft, you'd have a problem with it. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

You're just *****ing to *****.

[FlyingDutchman]

ESPN just said Tebow has never played in snow....could be one reason

[OpIv37]

Oh so now we picked the wrong FA's. you were all ok with Dockery and Walker. So you were wrong too. If we grabbed any FA's this year you'd be *****ing about them too.

So do tell us, who are the right FA's we should have brought in?

In your world whether Nix builds through FA or draft, you'd have a problem with it. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

You're just *****ing to *****.

Right, I'm just *****ing to *****- the team didn't finish 6-10 last year. The team hasn't been out of the playoffs for the last 10 years. I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to doubt this team or be upset by their performance. :rolleyes:

[justasportsfan]

Right, I'm just *****ing to *****- the team didn't finish 6-10 last year. The team hasn't been out of the playoffs for the last 10 years. I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to doubt this team or be upset by their performance. :rolleyes:


you're *****ing about the past regime and using to ***** about someone who's only in his first draft. :rolleyes:

You're *****ing just to *****.

[ParanoidAndroid]

no one said anything about top flight free agents, but there were several NT's available who went to other 3-4 teams for reasonable contracts. We got Edwards and Davis, why not do the same thing for an NT.


Who? Who was out there who did not get franchised or resigned to their old team that was better than what we could have gotten in the draft? Kennedy is still available if you think he's one of them.



Your argument is based on the assumption that we either do nothing in FA or go for broke in FA. The reality is that there is a middle ground. Every time someone criticizes the way this team acts in FA, someone makes the same ridiculous argument you just made. But the reality is that this team's FA signings have been piss-poor whereas our division opponents continually use it to get better. Wanting the team to do better in FA does NOT mean the same thing as demanding we sign Haynesworth to a $100 million contract.

Here was the reason I posted my first comment:
I disagree with your original assumtion in this post, that every pick past our 1st rounder is not going to contribute. If, in your mind, the only picks that can possibly contribute are first round draft picks, then how can Nix and company ever possibly satisfy you other than getting just that? I think our first 3 picks were solid and all of them will contibute alot of time on the field and will not be a liability. I think Spiller, Troup, and Carrington will be good in their positions. After that, I'm not so sure, but that's what you get with late round picks.

[Bill Cody]

Right, I'm just *****ing to *****- the team didn't finish 6-10 last year. The team hasn't been out of the playoffs for the last 10 years. I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to doubt this team or be upset by their performance. :rolleyes:

I have to say the B word has occurred to me when reading a lot of your posts.:sorry:

[OpIv37]

I have to say the B word has occurred to me when reading a lot of your posts.:sorry:

I won't say I never ***** or complain about ****, because I do.

I will say I never ***** just for the sake of *****ing. My complaints are usually legitimate, as the results on the field show.

[Spiderweb]

a lot of guys he took have a chance to start. But starting is different than contributing. They're going to start simply because we have no one else. As far as actual impact this season, it's going to be Spiller and.... Spiller.
Spiller, Troup, Carrington, Moats, and Batten may all get considerable playing time, not because we have no one, but because the incumbents ahead of them can be had for the job. Wang is an interesting choice and may end up getting some time at LT, because this is the position where one could say, we had no one.

Barring injury, I for one believe our line will be much improved this year. Jamon Meredith may turn out to be a real steal at tackle (thanks GB). Bell, I haven't a clue if he can be a player or not. He wasn't last year, which gives Wang a shot at LT.

........and isn't that what one would like for it's draft, make the team better?

[Griff]

I won't say I never ***** or complain about ****, because I do.

I will say I never ***** just for the sake of *****ing. My complaints are usually legitimate, as the results on the field show.

well since you're an all knowing smarty, go coach a team instead of ranting on some forums.

[OpIv37]

well since you're an all knowing smarty, go coach a team instead of ranting on some forums.

you don't have to trust me.

But why would you trust the Bills organization? When was the last time they exhibited the slightest hint of competence? Once again, performance dictates competence, not title. Just because they have jobs in the NFL doesn't mean they have any clue what the hell they're doing.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

well since you're an all knowing smarty, go coach a team instead of ranting on some forums. Yeah, good luck getting into the old-boys club. You do realize the NFL is "don't call us, we'll call you," right? You'd be lucky to get a job as a ball boy without having friends in high places, it doesn't matter if you're the next Lombardi. It takes either years of experience at the high school, college and the assistant pro ranks, or sheer cronyism.

[better days]

Yeah, good luck getting into the old-boys club. You do realize the NFL is "don't call us, we'll call you," right? You'd be lucky to get a job as a ball boy without having friends in high places, it doesn't matter if you're the next Lombardi. It takes either years of experience at the high school, college and the assistant pro ranks, or sheer cronyism.

I think cronyism is a better bet to get there, much like many jobs in this world. Knowing someone or having a father that knows someone can go far. While a great coach without connections winds up at East Dillon H.S.