im excited about our run d....

[NOT THE DUDE...]

with the addition of a real nt in troup and a great run stuffer in carrington and the edwards addition our dline is going to be really hard to run against... troup led his defense in top 5 against the run in all college football , carrington was the best run stuffing 5 tech in the draft... we got another top 5 run d de in edwards... davis is solid... with our ability to stop the run, we will get the ball on offense more this year and this is huge for our team... i like nixs philosophy, run and stop the run!

[NOT THE DUDE...]

also stroud, williams, and johnson will all get plenty of rest which will really help our run d....

[EDS]

Let's wait until some of these guys get their feet wet in the NFL before we call them "great" please. That term is used rather indiscriminately at times.

I would be surprised if both Carrington and Troupe started.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Let's wait until some of these guys get their feet wet in the NFL before we call them "great" please. That term is used rather indiscriminately at times.

I would be surprised if both Carrington and Troupe started.

stroud/williams will get about 40% of plays, while carrington and troup will play on run downs...

[EDS]

stroud/williams will get about 40% of plays, while carrington and troup will play on run downs...

Did Chan say that?

[Jaybird]

stroud/williams will get about 40% of plays, while carrington and troup will play on run downs...

as of right now, carrington is tHe third DE

[Dr. Lecter]

The Bills might have the worst run defense in the NFL.

One NT and he is a rookie that is raw. One adequate veteran DE. A semi-washed up former DT playing DE for the first time in his career in Stroud. No actual OLBs.

I can't be excited about it. Maybe in a year or two, but this year will be scary.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

The Bills might have the worst run defense in the NFL.

One NT and he is a rookie that is raw. One adequate veteran DE. A semi-washed up former DT playing DE for the first time in his career in Stroud. No actual OLBs.

I can't be excited about it. Maybe in a year or two, but this year will be scary.


troup isnt raw, hes ready
edwards is above average not adequate
stroud is not washed up, hes dominant if hes rested...
carrington was the best run stuffing 5 tech in the draft...

ur post is epic fail......................

[Aliceinchainsbills15]

troup isnt raw, hes ready
edwards is above average not adequate
stroud is not washed up, hes dominant if hes rested...
carrington was the best run stuffing 5 tech in the draft...

ur post is epic fail......................
Dude respect everyone's opinion. You're not going to change his opinion.

[PECKERWOOD]

The Bills might have the worst run defense in the NFL.

One NT and he is a rookie that is raw. One adequate veteran DE. A semi-washed up former DT playing DE for the first time in his career in Stroud. No actual OLBs.

I can't be excited about it. Maybe in a year or two, but this year will be scary.

Age versus youth, I have to side with Lecter here. You have two rookie starters who are playing against grown men who are professionals, it won't be easy and it's not easy for rookies to come into the NFL and just dominate, it just doesn't work like that. Yes, they're the new kid, the cool kid, but there are some bad boys who can hold things down. Look at some of the players Troup, Carrington & Edwards are going to have to face: Jake Long, Vernon Carey, Justin Smiley, Nick Mangold, Dbrickashaw Ferguson, Damien Woody, Nick Kazur, Stephen Neal, Logan Mankins, etc. I agree with Lecter, especially after digging a bit deeper.

[OpIv37]

Let's wait until some of these guys get their feet wet in the NFL before we call them "great" please. That term is used rather indiscriminately at times.

I would be surprised if both Carrington and Troupe started.
Troup will start based solely on the fact that he is the only true NT on the roster. But I agree with the rest of your post.

[ServoBillieves]

A front 7 consisting of Stroud, Troup, Edwards, Maybin, Posluszny, Davis, and Kelsay is.... well it's run stopping but a London Fletcher type of run stopping... as in it won't score (Bend don't break Dick Jauron!!!!!!) but it'll stop them 4 yards down field... leaving plenty of room for the secondary to either stop or let up a big play.

[BertSquirtgum]

didn't you guys know? we're going to the super bowl this year, duuuuh.

[BillsWin]

I'm excited about the future of our young defense, but to be honest, I think there is going to be some growing pains at first with players adjusting to new coaches and schemes.

I think it may take us a few weeks, but once it clicks, our defense could end up in the top 15 of overall defense. I think we were 19 last year, which is a little misleading due to our awful run defense and the fact that teams would rather run on us than pass so our pass defense numbers were inflated slightly.

[jamze132]

troup isnt raw, hes ready
edwards is above average not adequate
stroud is not washed up, hes dominant if hes rested...
carrington was the best run stuffing 5 tech in the draft...

ur post is epic fail......................


Holy crap!

Words can't describe your post.

[Ingtar33]

rookie NT/DTs tend to bite.. sometimes taking 3 or 4 years to develop.

anyone who watched Troup last year knows this kid isn't ready to start in the NFL this year... and he might not even be ready next year or ever (i really disliked this pick more then any other in the draft this year; yes... i dislike the pick of Troup in round 2 more then spiller in round 1... at least Spiller might be a game breaker... Troup probably won't contribute significantly for years... if ever).

[BertSquirtgum]

that's one large load of bull**** you got there ingtar.

[YardRat]

I'm looking forward to seeing how this unit performs, but in all honesty not expecting much more than flashes of what they could potentially be. Way to early on the learning curve to proclaim anything, for anybody.

[The Spaz]

rookie NT/DTs tend to bite.. sometimes taking 3 or 4 years to develop.

anyone who watched Troup last year knows this kid isn't ready to start in the NFL this year... and he might not even be ready next year or ever (i really disliked this pick more then any other in the draft this year; yes... i dislike the pick of Troup in round 2 more then spiller in round 1... at least Spiller might be a game breaker... Troup probably won't contribute significantly for years... if ever).

The Bills front office disagrees.

[justasportsfan]

Our DL is what worries me the most. Hopefully our Lb'ers step up.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

The Bills might have the worst run defense in the NFL.

One NT and he is a rookie that is raw. One adequate veteran DE. A semi-washed up former DT playing DE for the first time in his career in Stroud. No actual OLBs.

I can't be excited about it. Maybe in a year or two, but this year will be scary.

First of all Troup is not a raw rookie. He understands leverage and how to hold up vs. the run. Secondly, Dwan Edwards is far more than adequate, he's one of the best run stuffing d ends in the league. While the OLBer's lack experience it's the ILBer's of the 3-4 that make the corp thrive in terms of stopping the run. Davis and Poz are a terrific combination.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

rookie NT/DTs tend to bite.. sometimes taking 3 or 4 years to develop.

anyone who watched Troup last year knows this kid isn't ready to start in the NFL this year... and he might not even be ready next year or ever (i really disliked this pick more then any other in the draft this year; yes... i dislike the pick of Troup in round 2 more then spiller in round 1... at least Spiller might be a game breaker... Troup probably won't contribute significantly for years... if ever).

What are you talking about, the kid was a force last year. He was the only player double and even tripled team and he allowed his ends one on one assignments. Both guys had double digit sacks. I strongly disagree with this crap.

[justasportsfan]

Some people here are making Troup out to being the next Wilfork.

[justasportsfan]

First of all Troup is not a raw rookie. He understands leverage and how to hold up vs. the run. Secondly, Dwan Edwards is far more than adequate, he's one of the best run stuffing d ends in the league. While the OLBer's lack experience it's the ILBer's of the 3-4 that make the corp thrive in terms of stopping the run. Davis and Poz are a terrific combination.


Troup is not playing at the college level anymore.

As for the rest, you and I hope but it's not sure thing.

[OpIv37]

The Bills front office disagrees.

And since the Bills' FO has proven themselves to be adept at drafting and personnel decisions, we should defer to their judgment. :rolleyes:

Performance dictates competence, not title.

[The Spaz]

And since the Bills' FO has proven themselves to be adept at drafting and personnel decisions, we should defer to their judgment. :rolleyes:

Performance dictates competence, not title.

Hello this is a new front office wether you believe it to be true or not. Hey you may make it on to my ignore list once again. I thought you were starting to recover.

[ddaryl]

I think we'll be a lot more stout agianst the run this year... at times


however the youth we will be depending upon will take some time to develope into a consistent front 7.


What I don't see is this dislike of the Troup pick. I see him as the perfect NT for our D. He like the other young guys will take some time but will help.

[OpIv37]

Hello this is a new front office wether you believe it to be true or not. Hey you may make it on to my ignore list once again. I thought you were starting to recover.

It's NOT a new front office, whether you want to believe it or not. They fired John Guy and added Buddy Nix. Everyone else is the same. Ralph, Brandon, Modrak, Overdorf. Buddy Nix can't fix total organizational failure.

I'd love to believe that this was a new FO and that things have changed, but they haven't. Ralph kept his incompetent yes-men around and this draft looks like same ****, different day. It's a nice thought that the FO is new and that things will be different, but it's simply not reality.

[EDS]

First of all Troup is not a raw rookie. He understands leverage and how to hold up vs. the run. Secondly, Dwan Edwards is far more than adequate, he's one of the best run stuffing d ends in the league. While the OLBer's lack experience it's the ILBer's of the 3-4 that make the corp thrive in terms of stopping the run. Davis and Poz are a terrific combination.

Are Poz and Davis really a "terrific" combination? Davis underwhelmed in Denver last year and is aging. That is not to say he isn't an improvement on what the Bills had last season, but hardly qualifies as "terrific." Poz has ability, but he will be learning a new defense and must stay healthy. Even so, he is not Ray Lewis, so again, the term "terrific" seems inappropriate.

[The Spaz]

It's NOT a new front office, whether you want to believe it or not. They fired John Guy and added Buddy Nix. Everyone else is the same. Ralph, Brandon, Modrak, Overdorf. Buddy Nix can't fix total organizational failure.

I'd love to believe that this was a new FO and that things have changed, but they haven't. Ralph kept his incompetent yes-men around and this draft looks like same ****, different day. It's a nice thought that the FO is new and that things will be different, but it's simply not reality.

You forgot Whalen too.

[Dr. Lecter]

And that Jauron, who wanted Maybin, is gone as well.

[justasportsfan]

Hello this is a new front office wether you believe it to be true or not. Hey you may make it on to my ignore list once again. I thought you were starting to recover.


I think that the reason why Dick would start guys like Lynch over Jackson or Trent over Fitz is because Dick made the decisions on who to draft. He had to start his annointed players.

Unlike OP, I don't think NIx is a sure BUST because Ralph picked him and I am not going to say Nix is a sure thing either. It's his first year as a GM and he gets a benefit of a doubt.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

all i can go by is the tape... and troup completely dominated at the east west shrine game and his junior and senior seasons....

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Count me cautiously optimistic. There's certainly potential there. However, D-line prospects are notoriously slow to develop and difficult to gauge as far as pro potential. A lot will depend on if the offense can win time-of-possession battles and finish off in the red zone. The less time the defense has to be on the field, the better.

Sadly, I don't think the offense has what it takes to do that, and the one major addition to the offense is a boom-or-bust "playmaker" who, whether you want to address it or not, has serious questions, especially in the areas where this team needs improvement.

[Jan Reimers]

The Bills might have the worst run defense in the NFL.

One NT and he is a rookie that is raw. One adequate veteran DE. A semi-washed up former DT playing DE for the first time in his career in Stroud. No actual OLBs.

I can't be excited about it. Maybe in a year or two, but this year will be scary.
Let Lecter go, Op. It's just a matter of time until the authorities find him chained to the wall of your basement.

[Mahdi]

stroud/williams will get about 40% of plays, while carrington and troup will play on run downs...
Edwards, Stroud and Troup would be the guys in there on run downs and probably the majority of the snaps.

Carrington, Johnson and Williams will spell throughout the game on both pass and run downs.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I wouldnt be suprised if carrington starts, stroud is a better player with fewer snaps at his age...

[Dr. Lecter]

Let Lecter go, Op. It's just a matter of time until the authorities find him chained to the wall of your basement.

At least I said that I think they will be OK in a few years.

But I do think that this year will be a struggle. I do like having Nix in charge and that Brandon did not appear to heavily involved in the draft. It is great that Guy is gone and Whaley is here. And, of course, Jauron is gone is a positive.

I think it is a project, but there appears to be a long term plan.

[justasportsfan]

You guys are clueless.

McCargo will take this DL to the promise land.

[OpIv37]

You guys are clueless.

McCargo will take this DL to the promise land.

That's the real reason Jauron got fired. We would have made the playoffs last year if he was smart enough to start McCargo.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Are Poz and Davis really a "terrific" combination? Davis underwhelmed in Denver last year and is aging. That is not to say he isn't an improvement on what the Bills had last season, but hardly qualifies as "terrific." Poz has ability, but he will be learning a new defense and must stay healthy. Even so, he is not Ray Lewis, so again, the term "terrific" seems inappropriate.

Touche, Terrific is pushing it but there are going to be good. Denver cut Davis so they could put Ayers in the starting lineup and I think that will be a mistake. Davis had 94 tackles and 3.5 sacks while also finishing second run stuffing avg. Ball carriers avg. like to 2 yards a pop, meanwhile Poz finished 6th. He's a big upgrade in terms of run defense over Mitchell. Poz is not Ray Lewis or did I say he was but what he is very underrated among a lot of Bills fans. This guy had a better season than Dansby while missing 6 games. Poz and Davis are both stout in the middle and form a good run stuffing duo.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

both davis and poz are about 250lbs also... very stout!

[Dr. Lecter]

both davis and poz are about 250lbs also... very stout!

Poz is 6'1", 238 lbs., not 250.

[DraftBoy]

You're all nuts if you think that;

1. This Run D is going to be that good
2. Troup should be starting
3. Carrington is going to give you much on Run D, since he won't be playing much Run D.
4. That a line of Stroud-Rookie/Williams/Harvey-Johnson scares anybody
5. That its not going to take till at least mid-season if not later till this new 3-4 defensive scheme even begins to click

[OpIv37]

You're all nuts if you think that;

1. This Run D is going to be that good
2. Troup should be starting
3. Carrington is going to give you much on Run D, since he won't be playing much Run D.
4. That a line of Stroud-Rookie/Williams/Harvey-Johnson scares anybody
5. That its not going to take till at least mid-season if not later till this new 3-4 defensive scheme even begins to click

I still say Troup will be starting regardless if he SHOULD be or not, because we have no other NT's on the roster. But I really wish the Bills would have picked up a vet NT in FA to take the pressure off. Kyle Williams is a fan favorite in Buffalo, but he is not a 3-4 NT.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I still say Troup will be starting regardless if he SHOULD be or not, because we have no other NT's on the roster. But I really wish the Bills would have picked up a vet NT in FA to take the pressure off. Kyle Williams is a fan favorite in Buffalo, but he is not a 3-4 NT.

Who's this NT you magically speak of.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

You're all nuts if you think that;

1. This Run D is going to be that good
2. Troup should be starting
3. Carrington is going to give you much on Run D, since he won't be playing much Run D.
4. That a line of Stroud-Rookie/Williams/Harvey-Johnson scares anybody
5. That its not going to take till at least mid-season if not later till this new 3-4 defensive scheme even begins to click

Even if it takes 8 games, the run d is going to much better than last year. Stroud and Edwards as your starting d ends is going to make it tough to run on and Troup will make an impact in the run downs.

[justasportsfan]

the run D is only going to be better because we are going to run all day and keep our D off the field.

[HAMMER]

It's post draft preseason, of course we are going to be good, every year we are.

[DraftBoy]

Who's this NT you magically speak of.

Jason Ferguson?

[DraftBoy]

Even if it takes 8 games, the run d is going to much better than last year. Stroud and Edwards as your starting d ends is going to make it tough to run on and Troup will make an impact in the run downs.

Ill be shocked if the imporvements are anything better than minimal in the run D.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Ill be shocked if the imporvements are anything better than minimal in the run D.

I have to disagree. This run defense was so awful. A lot of those factors are gone now, size and scheme. There is no way we give up 156 yards per game with a 4.7 clip. We lead the league in rushing first downs allowed and fourth in percentage. This team will be a much better off vs. the run. There is no way in hell they post numbers similar to this.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Jason Ferguson?

Oh you mean the guy suspended for the first 8 games of the season. By that time Troup will be ready to rock.

[PECKERWOOD]

Poz is 6'1", 238 lbs., not 250.

Who cares, so long as it's all muscle?

http://www.elitefitness.com/reports/vince/images/young-arnold-schwarzenegger.jpg

That's Arnold Schwarzenegger at 210lbs, he is by far bigger than any 250lbs linebacker in the NFL.

[OpIv37]

It's post draft preseason, of course we are going to be good, every year we are.

We lead the league in "potential" every single season.

[madness]

Our defense just got bigger across the board and we drafted a NT that can consistently hold up against the average double team. Like Nix said we were getting pushed back 4-5 yards on every run play last year. I'm not expecting a top 10 run defense but we most certainly should improve over one of the worse run defenses in the league.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

We are building a team similar to what the dolphins did in 08 when they drafted phillip merling and kendall langford... except instead of jake long, we got another chris johnson in cj spiller!!!!!! suck it dolphin fans!!!!! u know u wanted him!!!!

[Ingtar33]

that's one large load of bull**** you got there ingtar.
I'll take that as a compliment. I don't think you've replied to a single post of mine in the last month without cursing or otherwise attacking me. you're closing in on being the 3rd person i block on this board in 8 years.

that said, coming from you I'll take it as a compliment.


The Bills front office disagrees.
how often have they been right in the last 8 years? I don't care who is calling the shots. The scouting department is basically the same as it was 9 years ago when Donahoe replaced the staff after Butler cleaned out the Bills scouting department. If you think Nix magically makes that scouting department better i've got this great bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.


What are you talking about, the kid was a force last year. He was the only player double and even tripled team and he allowed his ends one on one assignments. Both guys had double digit sacks. I strongly disagree with this crap.
College isn't the NFL. From what i saw of him in college this kid is years away from being ready to start in the NFL every-down. It will be Kyle Williams with Troup spelling him from time to time, it won't be Troup with Williams spelling him. Even so I'm pretty much willing to be there will bet a significant drop-off when Williams leaves for Troup (this year)


Our defense just got bigger across the board and we drafted a NT that can consistently hold up against the average double team. Like Nix said we were getting pushed back 4-5 yards on every run play last year. I'm not expecting a top 10 run defense but we most certainly should improve over one of the worse run defenses in the league.
i'll grant you the fact that it would be hard NOT to improve on last years run defense. that defense was horrible. But i doubt you'll notice much of an improvement (if there IS an improvement)

[k-oneputt]

Of course Troup is starting. As already stated who else do they got and they used a high pick on him, he has to start.

Jason Ferguson ??? C'mon. If and it's a big if, he has any game left he will be playing for Parcells in Miami.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

College isn't the NFL. From what i saw of him in college this kid is years away from being ready to start in the NFL every-down. It will be Kyle Williams with Troup spelling him from time to time, it won't be Troup with Williams spelling him. Even so I'm pretty much willing to be there will be a significant drop-off when Williams leaves for Troup (this year)

My eyes just agree with you differantly then. I don't expect Troup to play more than 40% of the time but the kid will have impact in the run game. I just don't know what more you expect for a NT. The kid was strong and stout in the run game, relish contact in the run game and hustled to the ball carrier.

[Prov401]

Just going to throw in my 2 cents.

I agree with little aspects of everyone's posts.

I wouldn't go ahead and declare Buffalo a Top 10 D just yet. Poz, whether anybody would like to admit it or not, is a little overrated by some, and gets injured frequently. Davis is aging, and Mitchell is, well, Mitchell. We don't know what we have in Maybin, and Schobel is probably going to retire. I think our LB's are in rough shape.

I'm excited to see our D-Line more than anything. As Op stated, Troup is going to have to start. He's the only NT we have. It's logic. I'm glad we got a guy with good character, eating habits, and work ethic. However, he's not the next Kris Jenkins. I am definitely all for Carrington starting at end. I think he's going to be a force. Edwards is also another guy that is getting me excited. The Ravens definitely wanted him back, which says alot coming from an organization that knows what their doing when it comes to drafting/free agency. That said, Stroud is being asked to play DE. That is just a big question mark. Overall, this front 7 is about 1 injury away from going from 'promising' to terrible. It's that thin of a fine line if you ask me.

[BertSquirtgum]

You're all nuts if you think that;

1. This Run D is going to be that good
2. Troup should be starting
3. Carrington is going to give you much on Run D, since he won't be playing much Run D.
4. That a line of Stroud-Rookie/Williams/Harvey-Johnson scares anybody
5. That its not going to take till at least mid-season if not later till this new 3-4 defensive scheme even begins to click

when did you become such a douche?

[Dr. Lecter]

when did you become such a douche?

:shutup:

[BertSquirtgum]

I'll take that as a compliment. I don't think you've replied to a single post of mine in the last month without cursing or otherwise attacking me. you're closing in on being the 3rd person i block on this board in 8 years.

that said, coming from you I'll take it as a compliment.



i haven't once replied to a comment from you. normally you're always talking comparisons with your college football team. which i couldn't care less about.

[HAMMER]

when did you become such a douche?
:roflmao:

[justasportsfan]

when did you become such a douche?
since he joined BZ. Where have you been?

[Ingtar33]

i haven't once replied to a comment from you. normally you're always talking comparisons with your college football team. which i couldn't care less about.


have you ever read one of my posts?

[justasportsfan]

have you ever read one of my posts?


your posts are usually easily mistaken for HH's posts.









:snicker:

[DraftBoy]

when did you become such a douche?

When? Ive been a douche...jeez thanks for noticing!

[Ingtar33]

your posts are usually easily mistaken for HH's posts.









:snicker:


ha! have i got that down on the team? I remember a time most people accused me of being too optimistic about the team. 10 years of suck really can beat you down a bit i guess.



When? Ive been a douche...jeez thanks for noticing!

:laughing:

[DraftBoy]

I think a number of posters are in for a very rude awakening about where this team is this season and what players are ready now, kinda like last season.

[Ingtar33]

I think a number of posters are in for a very rude awakening about where this team is this season and what players are ready now, kinda like last season.

yep. again... i'll withhold an official prediction till the 3rd week of preseason or so... but really i can't see more then 7-9 from this squad and could see 4-12. right now I'm hovering around a 5-11 or 6-10 prediction for this year. we'll see. I hope i'm wrong... but then when has this team in the last 10 years rewarded anyone's "hope" with something to cheer for on the field?

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I think a number of posters are in for a very rude awakening about where this team is this season and what players are ready now, kinda like last season.

I'm sorry DB there is no way that this run defense will not improve. Sure they got two rookies but they also snagged two well seasoned vets. Changing schemes by itself will help. But I guess I'm the only one who thinks the tampoon 2 is the absolute easiest defense to game plan against.

[Ingtar33]

I'm sorry DB there is no way that this run defense will not improve. Sure they got two rookies but they also snagged two well seasoned vets. Changing schemes by itself will help. But I guess I'm the only one who thinks the tampoon 2 is the absolute easiest defense to game plan against.


this has nothing to do with it.

don't get me wrong. i remember posting for years that i hate the Tampa 2... and much prefer the 34... hell i hated the move from the 34 to the 46 when Gregg Williams became coach.

personally i think with our personnel we probably would have done better with a 34 last year.

What bothers me is 2 things. 1) we did not improve our d-line this off season... not noticeably anyway... 2) Unless one of the FA or rookies steps up above expectations we did not get a 2nd ILB to play next to Poz...

those are glaring problems


I want to see how they play together before condemning the defense but something tells me it won't be much better then it was last year

[justasportsfan]

I'm sorry DB there is no way that this run defense will not improve. Sure they got two rookies but they also snagged two well seasoned vets. Changing schemes by itself will help. But I guess I'm the only one who thinks the tampoon 2 is the absolute easiest defense to game plan against.


Are you forgetting our divisional opponents got better ?

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Are you forgetting our divisional opponents got better ?

Sooooooo, since our division got better, it will weaken our run defense. How is that possible man. Please enlighten me.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

this has nothing to do with it.

don't get me wrong. i remember posting for years that i hate the Tampa 2... and much prefer the 34... hell i hated the move from the 34 to the 46 when Gregg Williams became coach.

personally i think with our personnel we probably would have done better with a 34 last year.

What bothers me is 2 things. 1) we did not improve our d-line this off season... not noticeably anyway... 2) Unless one of the FA or rookies steps up above expectations we did not get a 2nd ILB to play next to Poz...

those are glaring problems


I want to see how they play together before condemning the defense but something tells me it won't be much better then it was last year

Seriously, how is not picking up one of the best run defenders in free agency and selecting two players in the first 3 rounds not improving the d line. To me, that seems like a big effort.

[justasportsfan]

Sooooooo, since our division got better, it will weaken our run defense. How is that possible man. Please enlighten me.

We have rookies and players playing anew scheme facing teams that have another year playing together under the same scheme and have added weapons to their passing game that may open up the run.

I hope Troup turns out to be a beast , but just because he played well in college doesn't mean he's gonna single handedly turn things around otherwise he would have been drafted higher than Suh.

[Ingtar33]

Seriously, how is not picking up one of the best run defenders in free agency and selecting two players in the first 3 rounds not improving the d line. To me, that seems like a big effort.

wishful thinking... of the 3 players you've listed the only one who i expect much from is Carrington.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

wishful thinking... of the 3 players you've listed the only one who i expect much from is Carrington.

Really dude, you expect nothing from Edwards, guy who averaged out as the 4th best run defender in the league. Just a question did you go to UCF or cover the football program. Cause everything I've seen from I loved.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

We have rookies and players playing anew scheme facing teams that have another year playing together under the same scheme and have added weapons to their passing game that may open up the run.

I hope Troup turns out to be a beast , but just because he played well in college doesn't mean he's gonna single handedly turn things around otherwise he would have been drafted higher than Suh.

Well seeing the Jets got rid of there best RB and there best run blocking linemen I'm not to worried. I certainly hope reguardless who we play, we don't have to use 8 or 9 in the box. Though we did that last year and still got smoked. There is no way we give up 156 yards a game.

[Ingtar33]

Really dude, you expect nothing from Edwards, guy who averaged out as the 4th best run defender in the league. Just a question did you go to UCF or cover the football program. Cause everything I've seen from I loved.

I got a chance to see Troup when i was looking at JPP, and while i thought he was a superior player to JPP, i didn't think he looked particularly ready for the NFL either.

(JPP looks like a titanic draft bust to me)

[DraftBoy]

I'm sorry DB there is no way that this run defense will not improve. Sure they got two rookies but they also snagged two well seasoned vets. Changing schemes by itself will help. But I guess I'm the only one who thinks the tampoon 2 is the absolute easiest defense to game plan against.

You're assuming way too much about the scheme alone. We were not before, or are really now, well equipped for this change. We are mostly a 4-3 team running a 3-4. The scheme itself will hurt us this year because we dont have the guys to run it well.

[DraftBoy]

Seriously, how is not picking up one of the best run defenders in free agency and selecting two players in the first 3 rounds not improving the d line. To me, that seems like a big effort.

Carrington is a developmental DE who will only play in passing downs for now and Troup was a reach who is not ready right now.

[JCBills]

College isn't the NFL. From what i saw of him in college this kid is years away from being ready to start in the NFL every-down. It will be Kyle Williams with Troup spelling him from time to time, it won't be Troup with Williams spelling him. Even so I'm pretty much willing to be there will bet a significant drop-off when Williams leaves for Troup (this year)



Nobody is saying Troup is an every down NT yet, at least I'm not saying that. However, unless we're going to run the Cowboys type of 3-4, I don't know how well Kyle Williams will do facing constant double teams. I love Williams, been one of my favorite Bills since he won the job as a rookie, but he's a gap shooter, not a space eater.

Nix even said they're basically going to be splitting time, so we might actually be able to get a good idea of who's holding up better.

[B-DON]

Carrington is a developmental DE who will only play in passing downs for now and Troup was a reach who is not ready right now.
Just because the zone draft "expert" thinks he's a reach it must be right guys. Gimme a break with your know all bs. No way this run d is as bad as last year simple and plain. We could finish dead last in the league again and I guarantee statistically we still
show improvement. That's all have a nice day

[BertSquirtgum]

Carrington is a developmental DE who will only play in passing downs for now and Troup was a reach who is not ready right now.

you don't know it all

[Philagape]

We could finish dead last in the league again and I guarantee statistically we still
show improvement.

I was just about to ask, just how much improvement are even the homers expecting? and this kinda makes my point for me.
Don't be too hard on them, because nobody's expecting a top-10 defense or anything close. Or even that the optimism is geared toward this season.
What optimism I have, and there is some, likely won't be realized for 2-3 years.
2010 is a lost season, strictly a building year. It was lost no matter what. And I haven't seen any claims otherwise.

Now if someone does think the Bills will contend this year, I'd say go back to smoking your pom-poms.

[DraftBoy]

Just because the zone draft "expert" thinks he's a reach it must be right guys. Gimme a break with your know all bs. No way this run d is as bad as last year simple and plain. We could finish dead last in the league again and I guarantee statistically we still
show improvement. That's all have a nice day


Im not the only one who thinks it was a reach, that is quite clear if you look at the media and other reputable sites outside of BB.com.

I dont know it all, I just know a lot and I know how to define a reach and how not to define one. Which is a definition that many people here seem to have a misconstrued view of.

If statistical improvement is enough for you, then Im sure that I could show you improvement right now. There is a saying that goes along with stats, that escapes me but its the same thing with political polling. A stat can show anything you want it to, and everything you don't want it to. Wys did it for years, you did it here when you were in favor of Frazier, Ive done it, everybody has done it. Stats mean very very little. If the game was played on paper, Id be happy to agree with you, but its not, so why should you or I, or any other zoner care strictly about that?

Thank you for the well wishes, I hope you have a nice day as well!

[DraftBoy]

you don't know it all

Im sorry, I dont understand what you're saying? Can you rephrase?

[B-DON]

Im not the only one who thinks it was a reach, that is quite clear if you look at the media and other reputable sites outside of BB.com.

I dont know it all, I just know a lot and I know how to define a reach and how not to define one. Which is a definition that many people here seem to have a misconstrued view of.

If statistical improvement is enough for you, then Im sure that I could show you improvement right now. There is a saying that goes along with stats, that escapes me but its the same thing with political polling. A stat can show anything you want it to, and everything you don't want it to. Wys did it for years, you did it here when you were in favor of Frazier, Ive done it, everybody has done it. Stats mean very very little. If the game was played on paper, Id be happy to agree with you, but its not, so why should you or I, or any other zoner care strictly about that?

Thank you for the well wishes, I hope you have a nice day as well!
Well don't think you're the only one on here that knows football. Every year there are 40-50 "reaches". The term reach is bs. Apparently the media is the end all be all when it comes to determining that. As far as stats, You can't just totally ignore them when it's convenient for you. If we end up 29 th in run d this year I 100% guarantee you that our run d has improved. How you like them stats?

[DraftBoy]

Well don't think you're the only one on here that knows football. Every year there are 40-50 "reaches". The term reach is bs. Apparently the media is the end all be all when it comes to determining that. As far as stats, You can't just totally ignore them when it's convenient for you. If we end up 29 th in run d this year I 100% guarantee you that our run d has improved. How you like them stats?

I dont and how you determine I said that from my post is a little confusing. Don't confuse confidence for elitist.

There are far more or far less than 40-50 every year, like I said its about knowing the difference about what it means as opposed to what people think it conveys. I dont see how its bs at all.

Media isnt end all be all but when you have an overwhelming swell of people who have been doing this for many years, having a guy rated lower than where you take him are you not at least slightly curious as to why he was only so high on our board? Not even an inkling?

Ive already disparaged your concern with stats, Im not saying they in no way are important but much like our W/L record next season they won't mean a whole lot.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

You're assuming way too much about the scheme alone. We were not before, or are really now, well equipped for this change. We are mostly a 4-3 team running a 3-4. The scheme itself will hurt us this year because we dont have the guys to run it well.

You still not proven to me that we wont be much better as a run defense, sure we may only jump a couple spot to the 20's, but your talking 30 yards a game. Our run d was just a colosal bust last year and there's no way we put up 156 yards. Just aint buying what your selling me.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Im not the only one who thinks it was a reach, that is quite clear if you look at the media and other reputable sites outside of BB.com.

I dont know it all, I just know a lot and I know how to define a reach and how not to define one. Which is a definition that many people here seem to have a misconstrued view of.

If statistical improvement is enough for you, then Im sure that I could show you improvement right now. There is a saying that goes along with stats, that escapes me but its the same thing with political polling. A stat can show anything you want it to, and everything you don't want it to. Wys did it for years, you did it here when you were in favor of Frazier, Ive done it, everybody has done it. Stats mean very very little. If the game was played on paper, Id be happy to agree with you, but its not, so why should you or I, or any other zoner care strictly about that?

Thank you for the well wishes, I hope you have a nice day as well!

Troup may have been a reach but how big is to be determined. He was clearly one of the top 4 and felt he was much better than Cam Thomas. I'm confident he will prove me right.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Im not the only one who thinks it was a reach, that is quite clear if you look at the media and other reputable sites outside of BB.com.

I dont know it all, I just know a lot and I know how to define a reach and how not to define one. Which is a definition that many people here seem to have a misconstrued view of.

If statistical improvement is enough for you, then Im sure that I could show you improvement right now. There is a saying that goes along with stats, that escapes me but its the same thing with political polling. A stat can show anything you want it to, and everything you don't want it to. Wys did it for years, you did it here when you were in favor of Frazier, Ive done it, everybody has done it. Stats mean very very little. If the game was played on paper, Id be happy to agree with you, but its not, so why should you or I, or any other zoner care strictly about that?

Thank you for the well wishes, I hope you have a nice day as well!


was the troup pick a reach as far as positional value? ie (nts being pushed up becasue they are in high demand) sure, u could say that... was troup a reach as a talent? no! he was the 2nd best nt and was the strongest nt in the draft overall... he dominated his junior and senior season, he dominated at the east west shrine game, he was drafted where he was drafted because he was a damn good player...

[WeAreArthurMoates]

was the troup pick a reach as far as positional value? ie (nts being pushed up becasue they are in high demand) sure, u could say that... was troup a reach as a talent? no! he was the 2nd best nt and was the strongest nt in the draft overall... he dominated his junior and senior season, he dominated at the east west shrine game, he was drafted where he was drafted because he was a damn good player...

Yeah what he said, John were in the minority man.

[Griff]

The Bills might have the worst run defense in the NFL.

One NT and he is a rookie that is raw. One adequate veteran DE. A semi-washed up former DT playing DE for the first time in his career in Stroud. No actual OLBs.

I can't be excited about it. Maybe in a year or two, but this year will be scary.

whats to be scared about, we really can't get any worse against the run.

[BertSquirtgum]

Im sorry, I dont understand what you're saying? Can you rephrase?

who would you have drafted instead of troup?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

all i know is that ever since i created carrington and troup on the bills in madden my run d has been awesome!!!!!

[Johnny Bugmenot]

all i know is that ever since i created carrington and troup on the bills in madden my run d has been awesome!!!!! You're basing your predictions on Madden? Um... do you care to want to come back to reality, Mr. Dellapelle? Madden is a video game-- it doesn't prove jack squat about a player's ability to adapt to the NFL.

[The Spaz]

You're basing your predictions on Madden? Um... do you care to want to come back to reality, Mr. Dellapelle? Madden is a video game-- it doesn't prove jack squat about a player's ability to adapt to the NFL.

Yeah I'm sure he was serious.... come on man...lol

[BertSquirtgum]

i'm still waiting draftboy. who would you have drafted in place of troup?

ingtar.....who would you have drafted in place of troup?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

i'm still waiting draftboy. who would you have drafted in place of troup?

ingtar.....who would you have drafted in place of troup?

They have no answer... the only other answer is cody and that is the wrong one because troup was just as good as cody but without the donut blubber!

troup is a solid 320lbs who was in great shape and dominated on the tape. he was the best pick!

[DraftBoy]

i'm still waiting draftboy. who would you have drafted in place of troup?

ingtar.....who would you have drafted in place of troup?

Im sorry I have a life and had dinner plans this evening....clearly my mistake.

You do realize asking this question is giving me a huge advantage, correct? There are so many directions to go into and so many variables you can't account for. Here a few examples of other directions to go in;

Round 2:
1. I could go LT and take Charles Brown, a guy both Mayock and I had high on our boards and consider future LT. There are concerns about an injury but thus far that has yet to be 100% substaintiated.

2. I could go OLB and grab a guy like Sergio Kindle, Jason Worlids or Daryl Washington both of whom can rush the passer and give us some depth and are better options than Danny Batten (who is a player I like for the record)

3. I could of gone QB and taken Jimmy Clausen

4. I could of gone DE and taken Carlos Dunlap who is a guy with immense physical talents but has issues with consistency and maturity.

5. I could of gone with the actual top rated NT on the board and taken Mt. Cody

6. I could of gone WR and taken Golden Tate to compliment Evans.

I hope that will suffice.

[Dr. Lecter]

I would have kicked you in the balls if you had drafted Clausen.


Twice.

[BertSquirtgum]

that will suffice. all of your knocks on troup can be said about all of these guys. who knows that they will be special or day 1 starters? no one. you guys just don't like the troup pick so you guys cry about it.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Im sorry I have a life and had dinner plans this evening....clearly my mistake.

You do realize asking this question is giving me a huge advantage, correct? There are so many directions to go into and so many variables you can't account for. Here a few examples of other directions to go in;

Round 2:
1. I could go LT and take Charles Brown, a guy both Mayock and I had high on our boards and consider future LT. There are concerns about an injury but thus far that has yet to be 100% substaintiated.

2. I could go OLB and grab a guy like Sergio Kindle, Jason Worlids or Daryl Washington both of whom can rush the passer and give us some depth and are better options than Danny Batten (who is a player I like for the record)

3. I could of gone QB and taken Jimmy Clausen

4. I could of gone DE and taken Carlos Dunlap who is a guy with immense physical talents but has issues with consistency and maturity.

5. I could of gone with the actual top rated NT on the board and taken Mt. Cody

6. I could of gone WR and taken Golden Tate to compliment Evans.

I hope that will suffice.

for the bills troup was better than any one of those picks....

[DraftBoy]

I would have kicked you in the balls if you had drafted Clausen.


Twice.

I would of done it myself, but the guy asked for alternatives for some reason that is far beyond me.

[DraftBoy]

that will suffice. all of your knocks on troup can be said about all of these guys. who knows that they will be special or day 1 starters? no one. you guys just don't like the troup pick so you guys cry about it.

Interesting...explain to me my knocks on Troup again?

Nobody is crying about anything, I can assure you of that.

[BertSquirtgum]

i would have taken a dump and smeared it on your face if you drafted any of those guys besides kindle.

[DraftBoy]

i would have taken a dump and smeared it on your face if you drafted any of those guys besides kindle.


:1:

[BertSquirtgum]

there's only a 1. you're missing the zero.

[DraftBoy]

there's only a 1. you're missing the zero.
Oh come on, that's too easy!

[Ingtar33]

i'm still waiting draftboy. who would you have drafted in place of troup?

ingtar.....who would you have drafted in place of troup?


easy answer -

either Jarret Brown or Jared Veldheer; both of whom would have solidified our LT position.

I could have lived with Clausen in round two at this pick... this is about where he would have graded on my board so it's got alright value at a need position; though i think i would have gone with Brown over Clausen... unless there was some personality or physical problem that we were concerned with. I probably would have went with Clausen over Veldheer... or traded back to the tail end of round 2 and picked up more picks then take Joseph or Cody

see i would have handled the whole draft differently not just round 2.

I probably would have taken... Balaga in round 1, Clausen in round 2, then trade back into round 2 for Cody or Joseph... or we probably could have waited till our pick in round 3 to get Troup... as i highly doubt any team would have taken him in round 2... and if they did then Cody or Joseph probably would have fallen a bit instead and we could have moved up for one of them. (personally i was surprised Joseph fell as far as he did... i half expected him to go in the top of the 2nd; and was stunned when the Bills passed both him and Brown for Troup)

either way, we would have got instantly better at our biggest need positions right off the bat. but we'll see how it pans out in a few years.



They have no answer... the only other answer is cody and that is the wrong one because troup was just as good as cody but without the donut blubber!

troup is a solid 320lbs who was in great shape and dominated on the tape. he was the best pick!
it's called a life. try it sometime. i can't hang on a message board 24/7... i've better things to do.

[billz83]

we need sum run defense because we were terrible last year! if only we had improved our offense..ya the spiller pick will help a lil but we still have no OLINE or a QB and no WR besides Evans..if we ignore this again this year will be a complete wash out.

[Buffalogic]

Jared Veldheer? Oh come on! That guy is a giant question mark and I do mean giant!

I'm definitely NOT sold on the guy.

[DraftBoy]

Jared Veldheer? Oh come on! That guy is a giant question mark and I do mean giant!

I'm definitely NOT sold on the guy.

But your more sold on Troup?

[WeAreArthurMoates]

But your more sold on Troup?

100% yes, better measurables (being 6'8" inches with only 32 inch arms is extremely concerning), better production vs. much better competetion. Seriously!

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I probably would have taken... Balaga in round 1, Clausen in round 2, then trade back into round 2 for Cody or Joseph... or we probably could have waited till our pick in round 3 to get Troup... as i highly doubt any team would have taken him in round 2... and if they did then Cody or Joseph probably would have fallen a bit instead and we could have moved up for one of them. (personally i was surprised Joseph fell as far as he did... i half expected him to go in the top of the 2nd; and was stunned when the Bills passed both him and Brown for Troup)


For someone he seems to be coming off as an expert you clearly didn't watch much tape on Joesph. The guy struggled get his pad level low and would rather shoot the gap than hold it up. He's a penetrating type of tackle in the mold of Shaun Rodgers and doesn't eat up the double team as well as Troup. In fact while Troup measured out as a NT, Joesph best postion was either a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end.

[BertSquirtgum]

easy answer -

either Jarret Brown or Jared Veldheer; both of whom would have solidified our LT position.

I could have lived with Clausen in round two at this pick... this is about where he would have graded on my board so it's got alright value at a need position; though i think i would have gone with Brown over Clausen... unless there was some personality or physical problem that we were concerned with. I probably would have went with Clausen over Veldheer... or traded back to the tail end of round 2 and picked up more picks then take Joseph or Cody

see i would have handled the whole draft differently not just round 2.

I probably would have taken... Balaga in round 1, Clausen in round 2, then trade back into round 2 for Cody or Joseph... or we probably could have waited till our pick in round 3 to get Troup... as i highly doubt any team would have taken him in round 2... and if they did then Cody or Joseph probably would have fallen a bit instead and we could have moved up for one of them. (personally i was surprised Joseph fell as far as he did... i half expected him to go in the top of the 2nd; and was stunned when the Bills passed both him and Brown for Troup)

either way, we would have got instantly better at our biggest need positions right off the bat. but we'll see how it pans out in a few years.



it's called a life. try it sometime. i can't hang on a message board 24/7... i've better things to do.

those would have been terrible picks

[DraftBoy]

100% yes, better measurables (being 6'8" inches with only 32 inch arms is extremely concerning), better production vs. much better competetion. Seriously!

His size with his arms is a concern, but not that big of one.

Veldheer was the more dominate college player and has the awards, all-star game invites and accolades to show it. The level of competition is different yes but we've seen in many cases in the last decade that the disparity is trening downward. Good players are good players regardless of where they play football at. Good players should dominate at lower levels and Veldheer certainly did that for Hillsdale.

[Ingtar33]

For someone he seems to be coming off as an expert you clearly didn't watch much tape on Joesph. The guy struggled get his pad level low and would rather shoot the gap than hold it up. He's a penetrating type of tackle in the mold of Shaun Rodgers and doesn't eat up the double team as well as Troup. In fact while Troup measured out as a NT, Joesph best postion was either a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end.

wow...

Ok... i suppose its fun to display ignorance on a message-board. Joseph was no 5 technique... he was a 3 or 0, any way you looked at him. Struggled to keep his pads low? What the hell are you talking about? The fact the guy brought a little pass rush and penetration suddenly means he "shoots the gap" and is a 1 gap player?

you do know what the difference between a 2 gap and 1 gap player is right? Because he seemed to play perfect 2 gap when asked to. lord... just the line about him being a 5 technique should have been a tipoff... i don't know where you got that analysis... but whatever website claimed that he was a 5 technique doesn't know what it's talking about.

we'll see how it works out but i'm pretty certain Joseph and probably Cody (assuming he doesn't eat himself out of the league) will turn out to be better pros then Troup.



Jared Veldheer? Oh come on! That guy is a giant question mark and I do mean giant!

I'm definitely NOT sold on the guy.

he'll be light-years better then Wang this year... and probably much better then Bell. Frankly, i thought he was a boarderline early 2nd to late 2nd round guy... not surprised he slipped a little but watching him play makes it pretty clear the guy has skills for the NFL. But if you bothered to read what i wrote... which clearly people didn't...

I would have drafted

1) Bulaga
2) Clausen
3) Joseph/Cody/Troup (in that order in either the 3rd round or trading back into the 2nd, depending how that shook out, though i wouldn't trade into the 2nd for Troup... i would for the other two)

If all i had power over was the 2nd round pick, and the Bills took Spiller in Round 1 i would have drafted Brown (unless he had injury or personality concerns, at which point i would have taken Clausen, or traded back then taken Clausen or Veldheer, whomever is still on the board, with Clausen being the ideal choice)

[WeAreArthurMoates]

[quote=Ingtar33]wow...

Ok... i suppose its fun to display ignorance on a message-board. Joseph was no 5 technique... he was a 3 or 0, any way you looked at him. Struggled to keep his pads low? What the hell are you talking about? The fact the guy brought a little pass rush and penetration suddenly means he "shoots the gap" and is a 1 gap player?

you do know what the difference between a 2 gap and 1 gap player is right? Because he seemed to play perfect 2 gap when asked to. lord... just the line about him being a 5 technique should have been a tipoff... i don't know where you got that analysis... but whatever website claimed that he was a 5 technique doesn't know what it's talking about.

we'll see how it works out but i'm pretty certain Joseph and probably Cody (assuming he doesn't eat himself out of the league) will turn out to be better pros then Troup.




he'll be light-years better then Wang this year... and probably much better then Bell. Frankly, i thought he was a boarderline early 2nd to late 2nd round guy... not surprised he slipped a little but watching him play makes it pretty clear the guy has skills for the NFL. But if you bothered to read what i wrote... which clearly people didn't...

I would have drafted

1) Bulaga
2) Clausen
3) Joseph/Cody/Troup (in that order in either the 3rd round or trading back into the 2nd, depending how that shook out, though i wouldn't trade into the 2nd for Troup... i would for the other two)

quote]


Huh, seems likes a lot of people agree with me. Even Mike Mayock who knows a hell of a lot more football than any of us. Just so you know I wanted Charles Brown too but I really liked Troup coming in so that's why I have no problem with him.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Linval-Joseph-Lots-of-upside-but-still-raw.html

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/linval-joseph?id=496802

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/04/02/alualu-joseph-shipley-represent-real-value/

[blln4lyf]

this has nothing to do with it.

don't get me wrong. i remember posting for years that i hate the Tampa 2... and much prefer the 34... hell i hated the move from the 34 to the 46 when Gregg Williams became coach.

personally i think with our personnel we probably would have done better with a 34 last year.

What bothers me is 2 things. 1) we did not improve our d-line this off season... not noticeably anyway... 2) Unless one of the FA or rookies steps up above expectations we did not get a 2nd ILB to play next to Poz...

those are glaring problems


I want to see how they play together before condemning the defense but something tells me it won't be much better then it was last year

Uhm...those are the 2 surefire things we did do. We signed Dwan who is an above average DE in the 3-4, and Davis is a clear upgrade at ILB imo. Who knows if the draft picks will pan out, but you are crazy if those are the 2 things that bother you more than anything.

[blln4lyf]

Carrington is a developmental DE who will only play in passing downs for now and Troup was a reach who is not ready right now.
I'd say his pass rushing(power push) will not translate well to the NFL game yet he will be an effective run stopper. I will say that he is not a developmental pass rushing specialist DE prospect.

[Ingtar33]

Uhm...those are the 2 surefire things we did do. We signed Dwan who is an above average DE in the 3-4, and Davis is a clear upgrade at ILB imo. Who knows if the draft picks will pan out, but you are crazy if those are the 2 things that bother you more than anything.

i disagree... but then there is no point arguing this in the offseason.

I want to be wrong... but i just don't see it.

[BertSquirtgum]

ingtar, nothing changes the fact that those first two picks would have been terrible.

[OpIv37]

ingtar, nothing changes the fact that those first two picks would have been terrible.

So, it's too soon to criticize the Bills' draft, but it's not too soon to say that those picks would have been terrible.

The draftniks don't know what they're talking about, except Corey Chavous because he said good things about the Bills.

And clearly, the guys the Bills did choose are better than the guys the Bills didn't choose, by sole virtue of the fact that the Bills chose them.

I'm getting a little sick of the double standards around here.

[Dr. Lecter]

.

I'm getting a little sick of the double standards around here.

To be fair, you do the opposite.

"It is too soon to know if that was a good pick, but I know the rest sucked."

[BertSquirtgum]

So, it's too soon to criticize the Bills' draft, but it's not too soon to say that those picks would have been terrible.

The draftniks don't know what they're talking about, except Corey Chavous because he said good things about the Bills.

And clearly, the guys the Bills did choose are better than the guys the Bills didn't choose, by sole virtue of the fact that the Bills chose them.

I'm getting a little sick of the double standards around here.

you got it babe

[OpIv37]

To be fair, you do the opposite.

"It is too soon to know if that was a good pick, but I know the rest sucked."

No I don't. Well, except when I do.

[DraftBoy]

To be fair, you do the opposite.

"It is too soon to know if that was a good pick, but I know the rest sucked."

You forget that when Op does it, its because he is being realistic.

[DraftBoy]

I'd say his pass rushing(power push) will not translate well to the NFL game yet he will be an effective run stopper. I will say that he is not a developmental pass rushing specialist DE prospect.

I think he could eventually develop in an effective run stopped but not from Day 1, and he shouldnt be starting, except due to lack of other options and it still wouldnt shock me to see KW start.

To me on my value board, Troup was a reach when I compare that with other value boards, they have him ranked as lower than where we picked him as well. So Im confident in saying yes we did reach for Troup. That however means nothing about how he will turn out as a player.

[OpIv37]

Uhm...those are the 2 surefire things we did do. We signed Dwan who is an above average DE in the 3-4, and Davis is a clear upgrade at ILB imo. Who knows if the draft picks will pan out, but you are crazy if those are the 2 things that bother you more than anything.

I'm glad we made the moves with Dwan Edwards and Davis, but let's be realistic here. They're upgrades only in the sense that they know the 3-4 better than the guys we have now. Basically, we're swapping Schobel in the 4-3 for Edwards in the 3-4, and Poz in the 4-3 for Davis in the 3-4. Again, the moves were necessary, but it's hard to see how they constitute "upgrades."

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I think he could eventually develop in an effective run stopped but not from Day 1, and he shouldnt be starting, except due to lack of other options and it still wouldnt shock me to see KW start.

To me on my value board, Troup was a reach when I compare that with other value boards, they have him ranked as lower than where we picked him as well. So Im confident in saying yes we did reach for Troup. That however means nothing about how he will turn out as a player.

Very true, I personally loved Troup coming out so I was happy with him even if it was reach. Now I kinda understand why some weren't, especially if they had Cody or Thomas higher. Though I have no idea why people would want Thomas over Troup.

[Buffalogic]

But your more sold on Troup?I mean Veldheer was a 3rd round pick. Yeah, Troupe was considered a 3rd round talent but what does that even mean? Same people said Jimmy Clausen was a top 10 pick, if not that then at least a first rounder. I never liked Clausen for the record.

We needed a nose tackle badly. Then you ask well why not take one of the more highly publicized guys like Mount Cody?? Fair question but personally I didn't want Cody. Mike Williams is a devastating reminder that fat and lazy is a bad mix for a big man in the NFL. Guys like Cody who need constant motivation to keep themselves in shape are bad for the bills. We're a losing team and play in a small market. He could lose his desire quickly and start eating even quicker.

He went to a good situation with the ravens though. There are players there that he will listen to and that will help keep him in check. The bills don't have players like that.

If it boils down to who would I rather select in the second out of Troupe or Veldheer I'd pick Troupe.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Terrence Cody and chicken wings are not a good mix.............