Interesting fact about our OL

[X-Era]

Do you realize that out of the 15 O-lineman we currently have on our roster, only 3 have more than 5 years experience? (Hangartner, Green, Chambers).

All the rest have less than 3 years experience in the league.

If we were looking to rebuild the line, we have a ton of young faces already. What we don't have is highly touted young tackle prospects.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted an early round Tackle or two like everyone else. But, is it possible that we simply need to coach and develop some of the young talent we already have?

[mayotm]

Bell is a prospect. People want to write him off, but I don't. He's young and new to the game. He didn't play high school football and only two years of college. The issues he had last season were more mental than physcial. Mental issues can be corrected with experience and coaching.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Screw Bell, Meredith is the guy I see winning that LT job.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

im not as down on bell and meredith as others around here, i think they can be solid with more experience...

[PECKERWOOD]

Bell is a prospect. People want to write him off, but I don't. He's young and new to the game. He didn't play high school football and only two years of college. The issues he had last season were more mental than physcial. Mental issues can be corrected with experience and coaching.

Bell does not get push in the running game, although he does get to the second level quickly, he cannot move DL back, at all. I do think that Bell can mirror well and just as good as any tackle in the NFL, but once again, he gets zero push, he is not a strong tackle, just incredibly athletic.

[tommy6030]

They def just need some time. They may turn out to be great but no one in the FA market excites me so unless we get a trade done with Baltimore or New Orleans I think the the F.O. made the right play by letting this year go. Now if they try to sell us this time to develop thing again, then we have big problems.

Defense is easier to fix first because the coaches knew what they had, nothing in the front 7!! On offense we have a lot of young talent and no clue if they are good because Skeletor gave all the starting spots to the older players.

Only time will tell, but I don't expect much more activity barring any injuries.

[EDS]

Do you realize that out of the 15 O-lineman we currently have on our roster, only 3 have more than 5 years experience? (Hangartner, Green, Chambers).

All the rest have less than 3 years experience in the league.

If we were looking to rebuild the line, we have a ton of young faces already. What we don't have is highly touted young tackle prospects.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted an early round Tackle or two like everyone else. But, is it possible that we simply need to coach and develop some of the young talent we already have?

What is funny is that at this time last year most people on this board considered Langston Walker to be the best offensive lineman on the Bills roster.

So to sum up, the Bills top two options at left tackle, a position everyone agrees is important to a teams success, are an inexperienced Dick J. 7th round draft pick and another inexperienced guy who couldn't even make the roster of a team (the Pack) with a horrid offenive line.

Fortunately, the Bills fortified the tackle position by bringing in a veteran from a strong Raiders team.

[JCBills]

Do you realize that out of the 15 O-lineman we currently have on our roster, only 3 have more than 5 years experience? (Hangartner, Green, Chambers).

All the rest have less than 3 years experience in the league.

If we were looking to rebuild the line, we have a ton of young faces already. What we don't have is highly touted young tackle prospects.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted an early round Tackle or two like everyone else. But, is it possible that we simply need to coach and develop some of the young talent we already have?

Sure we do, Meredith was viewed as a top tackle prospect in last year's draft.

Whether someone is/was highly touted or not means nothing, if a guy can play he can play.

[X-Era]

Sure we do, Meredith was viewed as a top tackle prospect in last year's draft.
Top meaning what exactly? Top 5 in that position? maybe, probably not. 1st rounder? No.


Whether someone is/was highly touted or not means nothing, if a guy can play he can play.
Exactly, and adding a draftee to this group, even from the 1st round, would still leave us with another guy who needs to prove he can play and may need to be developed.

[JCBills]

Top meaning what exactly? Top 5 in that position? maybe, probably not. 1st rounder? No.


Some had him as a top 5 OT, but even then that means nothing. A lot of people also had Bruce Campbell as a top 10 pick. Even then, what impact does that have on anything? None.


Exactly, and adding a draftee to this group, even from the 1st round, would still leave us with another guy who needs to prove he can play and may need to be developed.

So then why say we don't have "highly touted" young OTs in the first place? Then point out a good reason to not care about where an OT is taken? Not many 1st round OTs started at LT in their first year. Yeah, you have the Jake Longs and Ryan Cladys of the world, but out of last year's 1st round OTs, only one started at LT.

[X-Era]

So then why say we don't have "highly touted" young OTs in the first place?

Because some think its the only way to build a great line.

That's why I said this:

"Don't get me wrong, I wanted an early round Tackle or two like everyone else. But, is it possible that we simply need to coach and develop some of the young talent we already have?"

I feel there's a good shot that someone could emerge from this group and become a solid starting LT.

I think a lot of the problems may have been from not sticking with one guy throughout the year due to injury or shuffling.

Many forget how many stupid penalties Peters took early on too.

[JCBills]

Because some think its the only way to build a great line.

That's why I said this:

"Don't get me wrong, I wanted an early round Tackle or two like everyone else. But, is it possible that we simply need to coach and develop some of the young talent we already have?"

I feel there's a good shot that someone could emerge from this group and become a solid starting LT.

I think a lot of the problems may have been from not sticking with one guy throughout the year due to injury or shuffling.

Many forget how many stupid penalties Peters took early on too.

LOL my bad I saw the highly touted line and went into instant grrrrr mode.

I've been saying for a while I think Meredith is the guy who has the physical skills and mindset to be effective if not better than most at the position. I think Bell lacks the football mentality, it's so new to him. Hard to start playing football at 21, then suddenly become NFL tough.

[BillsWin]

Where is HH to remind us that we traded Peters?

I guess I'll do it....

Hey, we don't forget we traded Peters guys! We suck now and our offensive line will never get better.

Jauron clap: :clap:

[yomommabilly]

Continuous 8 in the box will break the spirit of any offensive line, especially a young one like this. There is no hint of a passing threat whatsoever. At least we had TO to take some heat off, little heat it did but still, took up a man on D. While I agree, the Oline is not half bad all we have to do is look at the St. Louis Rams the last three years, ZERO passing threat, ZERO with perhaps one of the top three RB in the NFL in Steven Jackson and they won 1 game last year. The entire free world thought their Oline sucked, which it did badly the last part of the season but still, consistent 8-9 players in the box.

Like it or not, the NFL has turned into a QB oriented league. You need a good QB and then you need someone to thro it to, as of right now, we have neither. Yes we have Jackson and the new kid and Gold tooth but still, this Oline is only going to be able to do so much. Once the second half of the season comes around, that scares me. You can only pound the ball so much until the Defense stops it dead in its tracks.

Again, Steven Jackson. The last three years he has gotten close to 1500 yards each year or at least 1200 BUT, does not go over the little white goal line all too much. You get in the Red Zone and the field gets smaller to defend, without a legit QB and some sort of Legit people that can catch the ball, you are toast. Thats the Bills. The entire AFCE has taken giant leaps to get better, what have we done ???? NADA, got a good RB that is going to get some yardage, yes. Cross the goal line ? Not many times.

[tampabay25690]

Screw Bell, Meredith is the guy I see winning that LT job.

I think both are capible...

[YardRat]

I don't see a solid LT on the roster at this point. If Bell or Meredith (or anybody else for that matter) come out of nowhere and surprise I'll eat my words, but I don't see it happening.

I can live with the QB's, WR's, LB's we have for this season and I like the potential of the rest of the line, but LT scares the hell out of me still.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Glad to see many of you are coming around to my point of view on how dire the LT situation is.

Let's face it-- Jamon Meredith is a 5th-round draft pick and a reject from another team. Demetrius Bell is a 7th-round pick in what has so far turned out to be a very poor draft (2008). That's not going to cut it. That leaves you with rookie and 5th-round draft pick Wang.

Trying to build a franchise LT out of the dregs like that is like treating the Mega Millions as an investment strategy. This team hasn't drafted an offensive lineman in the top round since Mike Williams (and again, Mckinnie was the smarter pick there). How has it panned out for the Bills so far? There's 4th rounder Jonas Jennings, who was adequate, but then what? Jason Peters, undrafted. He was paid like undrafted-- and once he showed his potential, he quit-- slacked off, demanded a trade. And why not? Why should he play all-out for league minimum while Jake Long and D'brickashaw Ferguson rake in millions? There is a lot of truth in the theory of getting what you pay for. Beyond that, you get into the Duke Prestons, the Terrance Penningtons, and others the long list of Bills low-round draft busts. Is it any wonder why Wood and Levitre, last year's 2nd-round picks if I recall correctly, are considered the strong points on our line?

I'm not calling for them to blow money on free agents. No. They're unemployed for a reason. Get good prospects, early in the draft, and develop them. They'll pay dividends on the field.

[jamze132]

I'm still holding out hope we can trade for Gaither.

[Night Train]

The faces may change but the one maddening thing is that our OL keep jumping offsides. That's been going on forever, it seems.

I think they should all wear those ear amplifiers, like the lady in the commercial who is suddenly scoring big at Bingo !

[Buffalogic]

I think the best of Bell is still yet to come. There was a lot of pressure on that young fella to come in and play at a high level. The weakest part of his game was the pre-snap penalties he committed and I think that could have had a lot to do with pressure and inexperience. Let him calm down and I think you will see him grow. He has the ability to become a great steal for us.

[yomommabilly]

I think the best of Bell is still yet to come. There was a lot of pressure on that young fella to come in and play at a high level. The weakest part of his game was the pre-snap penalties he committed and I think that could have had a lot to do with pressure and inexperience. Let him calm down and I think you will see him grow. He has the ability to become a great steal for us.

The best of Bell surely will come but its not going to be any better then any 7th round pick Olineman. Your statement of " He has the ability to become a great steal " can go to any player selected in any draft sinces the inception of the draft, thats why they have drafts but in this case, Bell is playing like what he is, a 7th round pick in the NFL draft. Nothing more, nothing less.

[DesertFox24]

Great analysis on Bell and Meredith, maybe Nix and Gailey were right that we might have our LT on the roster already. Both of them needed to get bigger and stronger and get more experience.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/442266?tag=pageRow;pageContainer

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/518588?tag=pageRow;pageContainer

[BertSquirtgum]

The best of Bell surely will come but its not going to be any better then any 7th round pick Olineman. Your statement of " He has the ability to become a great steal " can go to any player selected in any draft sinces the inception of the draft, thats why they have drafts but in this case, Bell is playing like what he is, a 7th round pick in the NFL draft. Nothing more, nothing less.

what was jason peters?

[EDS]

Bell's measureables from the article posted by DesertFox:

Campus: 5.18 in the 40-yard dash … 1.72 10-yard dash … 3.02 20-yard dash … 4.66 20-yard shuttle … 8.12 three-cone drill … 33-inch vertical jump … 9'3" broad jump … Bench pressed 225 pounds 10 times … 255-pound bench press … 385-pound squat … 275-pound power clean … 33 1/4-inch arm length … 10-inch vertical jump … Right-handed … 20/36 Wonderlic score.

Combine: 5.25 in the 40-yard dash … 1.78 10-yard dash … 3.0 20-yard dash … 4.65 20-yard shuttle … 7.65 three-cone drill … 26.5-inch vertical jump … 9'1" broad jump … Bench pressed 225 pounds nine times.


Meredith's measureables:

Campus: 5.11 in the 40-yard dash … 1.80 10-yard dash … 2.95 20-yard dash … 4.78 20-yard shuttle … 7.87 three-cone drill … 28 1/2-inch vertical jump … 9'2" broad jump … Bench pressed 225 pounds 21 times … 33 1/8-inch arm length … 9 7/8-inch hands.

Combine: 4.99 in the 40-yard dash … 1.69 10-yard dash … 2.84 20-yard dash … 4.82 20-yard shuttle … 8.01 three-cone drill … 28-inch vertical jump … 8'9" broad jump … Bench pressed 225 pounds 31 times … 34 1/2-inch arm length … 10-inch hands.


Not sure how these compare to some of the top guys from this draft, but the descriptions basically identified Bell's inexperience and strength as his biggest limiters and Meredith's being agressiveness and strength.

[yomommabilly]

Different story with Peters. He went undrafted because he was not a very good TE. The Bills turned him into an OT. Completely different. Also, from the first time Peters played, even though it was special teams, you could see he would murder people. Bell has showed nothing but a run of the mill 7th round draft pick. I seriously doubt he would start for the majority ot teams in the NFL.

[Buffalogic]

Different story with Peters. He went undrafted because he was not a very good TE. The Bills turned him into an OT. Completely different. Also, from the first time Peters played, even though it was special teams, you could see he would murder people. Bell has showed nothing but a run of the mill 7th round draft pick. I seriously doubt he would start for the majority ot teams in the NFL.Peter's was always bigger than these two guys. I think give them some time with the new strength coach and they will get stronger.

It's better to start with an athletic foundation. If you are athletic already, you can gain strength. If you are strong, you can't just gain athleticism.

[X-Era]

Different story with Peters. He went undrafted because he was not a very good TE. The Bills turned him into an OT. Completely different. Also, from the first time Peters played, even though it was special teams, you could see he would murder people. Bell has showed nothing but a run of the mill 7th round draft pick. I seriously doubt he would start for the majority ot teams in the NFL.

So, Ed Wang, a converted tight-end taken in the 5th round is, what... Better than an UDFA, converted, tight end?

Sorry, I see it as about the same thing.

The only thing I will agree to is that a lower round player is theoretically a lower talented player if you solely base your evaluation on everything you have seen outside of a player experience in the NFL.

But that's the problem. No one knows who can develop and who cant. And for anyone to exclaim that such and so player cant amount to anything ever based on a sum total of 2 years of experience is something Im not willing to do.

Look, every year players get drafted because they are "sure fire studs" and every year someone gets a dud. Its a crap shoot. That's why I personally prefer trading for proven players or better yet resigning our own. Thats not to say it cant be built by the draft; only that its a crap shoot and you don't know what you will get.

[mysticsoto]

I'm not worried about the Oline as much as some people are here. A friend of mine alerted me to the fact that the Bills (Jauron) hired a Tae Kwon Do Master to teach their lines hand positioning and strengthen their legs. But hiring a Tae Kwon Do Master was absolutely the wrong thing b'cse Tae Kwon Do is a "square" martial art style in which you face your opponent directly. What would have been better would have been to hire a Judo or even Jujitsu expert that can teach smaller guys like what we had how to use leverage to their advantage. Instead, Jauron hired someone to teach Oline exactly what they don't need or want to do - face someone directly - in which case the faster and/or stronger guy will win every time. And we know we didn't have the fastest or strongest guys...

I think the new coaching staff is going to make a world of difference. Clearly Jauron had no idea what he was doing...

[BertSquirtgum]

jauron was such a ****ing moron. jesus christ, to think we had to put up with him for almost 4 years. it makes me sick to my stomach.

[X-Era]

I'm not worried about the Oline as much as some people are here. A friend of mine alerted me to the fact that the Bills (Jauron) hired a Tae Kwon Do Master to teach their lines hand positioning and strengthen their legs. But hiring a Tae Kwon Do Master was absolutely the wrong thing b'cse Tae Kwon Do is a "square" martial art style in which you face your opponent directly. What would have been better would have been to hire a Judo or even Jujitsu expert that can teach smaller guys like what we had how to use leverage to their advantage. Instead, Jauron hired someone to teach Oline exactly what they don't need or want to do - face someone directly - in which case the faster and/or stronger guy will win every time. And we know we didn't have the fastest or strongest guys...

I think the new coaching staff is going to make a world of difference. Clearly Jauron had no idea what he was doing...
I think coaching has been one of the reasons our o-line has been inconsistent. To me at least, it seemed our line was stronger when McNally was coaching. He left, and then it seemed to digress to me.

I like our direction. We solidified the inside of the line with Levitre and Wood. Hangartner isn't all world but hes solid IMO. One possibility that we may see is moving Wood to Center and trying Calloway at RG. I would not be surprised to see this lineup tried out in training camp and it may make its way onto the field. I actually think our interior line would be even better with that lineup. This group is now seasoned and ought to be even better this year. We may just develop a solid inside running game.

My issue is more with the tackles. We have youth with talent there, but none are consistent or proven. Its possible that we get semi-solid but sometimes inconsistent or unpolished play from our Tackles this year. I think either or both Meredith and Bell will start again but Wang may end up being the guy at one of those spots. I'm not as down on Bell and Meredith as some. I think both have enough talent to start in this league but they need to stay healthy and play consistent... they need to be developed and coached. My only point is that any draftee would have been in the same boat, none were instant solid starters in the NFL IMO. Bulaga was such a strong technician that he could have been solid early. Everyone else played a bit raw and inconsistent. That means coaching.

Cornell Green isn't great but he is a known commodity and will play more solid as a starter than any of our other Tackles day one. Green will likely be our early starting RT. What I hope for is one of our young guys to quickly develop and supplant him due to Green's limited upside. But, Green is probably just as good as what we had in Butler so I cant say we are worse off, and since Butler was injured and we were stuck with young, raw players, we may be better.

Overall, I don't think we are worse than last year. But, we are relying on development of young guys to get significantly better. That means coaching. What we didn't get was a high draft pick who will rapidly get onto t he field and play at a solid or even high level. But then again, there's a lot of assumptions about that high rounders ability to quickly develop.

[mysticsoto]

Ouch...our Oline might not be the creme of the crop...but I really don't think it's going to be as bad as some people are making it sound:


Jamon Meredith was the Bills' first-string left tackle at the team's initial post-draft minicamp.
Meredith may be replaced when Demetrius Bell gets healthy, but this is one of the ugliest first-string offensive lines we've ever seen. Meredith's (8 career games, 4 career starts) bookend tackle was Nick Hennessey (1 game, 0 starts). The starting right guard was Jason Watkins (0 games), and the center was Christian Gaddis (2 games, 0 starts). Second-year LG Andy Levitre (16 games, 16 starts) was easily the most experienced starter. Only Levitre and Meredith were drafted. It's going to be a long year in Buffalo.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx?rwr=1