cushing and hcg

[djjimkelly]

lol i didnt know till just now that it was hcg that cushing tested positive for.

well as a recreational steroid user ill explain exactly what hcg does.

hcg is taken by juice boys to start their own natural testosterone production back.

so basically once uve just done a major run of something. and your own testosterone has shut down hcg kick starts your natural test levels back to normal within a week or 2.

HCG is used to for lack of a better term brings back your nuts.

i used it last october and will again this october after this summers juice run.

HCG allows your body to not go through testosterone withdrawal. and makes it so u dont lose much of what u gained from the steroid use.

i personally think steroids are good for people but rules are rules.

i suggest everyone youtubes the movie BIGGER STRONGER FASTER


BYRD is the WORD defensive ROY

[djjimkelly]

also i fully believe every professional athlete has done juice BTW.

watch bigger stronger faster then ask yourself if you dont think so too

[BidsJr]

lol i didnt know till just now that it was hcg that cushing tested positive for.

well as a recreational steroid user ill explain exactly what hcg does.

hcg is taken by juice boys to start their own natural testosterone production back.

so basically once uve just done a major run of something. and your own testosterone has shut down hcg kick starts your natural test levels back to normal within a week or 2.

HCG is used to for lack of a better term brings back your nuts.

i used it last october and will again this october after this summers juice run.

HCG allows your body to not go through testosterone withdrawal. and makes it so u dont lose much of what u gained from the steroid use.

i personally think steroids are good for people but rules are rules.

i suggest everyone youtubes the movie BIGGER STRONGER FASTER


BYRD is the WORD defensive ROY


I love it when you suspect that someone is a total toolbag, and they put it on display for everyone to see!

[Prov401]

also i fully believe every professional athlete has done juice BTW.

watch bigger stronger faster then ask yourself if you dont think so too

I've watched bigger stronger faster. Very insightful.

Last year I was close to trying dianabol, but researched and decided against it. I decided to just bust my ass with protein, creatine, glutamine, water, a multi-vitamin, and a ton of good healthy food. I put on 25lbs since last March, and weigh 205 right now. Busted my ass, and still do, but I feel good knowing I did/do it the hard way.

The only thing that truly scared me away from the juice were the possible thinning of hair, and severe acne breakouts.

HCG is also what Manny Ramirez (LA Dodgers) got busted for last year. PCT treatment.

[JCBills]

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/9/3/633875627891321540-ROIDRAGE.jpg

[Prov401]

Lose the creatine and the weight will actually be functional.

I see what your trying to say. Only, I don't use creatine monohydrate. No bloat here.

http://www.supplementreviews.com/scifit/kre-alkalyn-powder

The best creatine I've ever used. Does not convert to creatinine like almost all creatine products out there. The weight I put on isn't water, just lean mass. And my wallet has taken a beaten for it, I'm not going to lie.

[JCBills]

I see what your trying to say. Only, I don't use creatine monohydrate. No bloat here.

http://www.supplementreviews.com/scifit/kre-alkalyn-powder

The best creatine I've ever used. Does not convert to creatinine like almost all creatine products out there. The weight I put on isn't water, just lean mass. And my wallet has taken a beaten for it, I'm not going to lie.

Good call :up:

[mikemac2001]

I prefer beer and cheeseburgers

helps me bulk up

[billsfanryan]

I prefer beer and cheeseburgers

helps me bulk up

I prefer this method as well.

[djjimkelly]

I love it when you suspect that someone is a total toolbag, and they put it on display for everyone to see!


ty for that.

i love the uneducated views of some that is very insightful.

and yes i am a tool bag if going single 3 years ago at 270 pounds as a fat **** and then deciding i am going to improve my health.

now im 215 with a 6 pack and 16 inch guns :)

ty for the personal attack.

but smoking pot kills too. i am very sorry you that your completely uneducated.

doubly sorry for you that you are naive when it comes to steroids sports and the common young male who is in shape.

i figured id help give the real truth to some people however apparently everything the government tells us is true. and there is only right and wrong according to narrow minded fools like yourself.

but then again did you know its US air force policy to give pilots crystal meth when they go into combat to keep them more alert.

grow up and open your eyes to the way the world really works.

and have another beer and let yourself be 300 pounds

[djjimkelly]

I see what your trying to say. Only, I don't use creatine monohydrate. No bloat here.

http://www.supplementreviews.com/scifit/kre-alkalyn-powder

The best creatine I've ever used. Does not convert to creatinine like almost all creatine products out there. The weight I put on isn't water, just lean mass. And my wallet has taken a beaten for it, I'm not going to lie.


or you could take anavar and jump your creatine levels by about 20 times and actually get the results you want

[Prov401]

ty for that.

i love the uneducated views of some that is very insightful.

and yes i am a tool bag if going single 3 years ago at 270 pounds as a fat **** and then deciding i am going to improve my health.

now im 215 with a 6 pack and 16 inch guns :)

ty for the personal attack.

but smoking pot kills too. i am very sorry you that your completely uneducated.

doubly sorry for you that you are naive when it comes to steroids sports and the common young male who is in shape.

i figured id help give the real truth to some people however apparently everything the government tells us is true. and there is only right and wrong according to narrow minded fools like yourself.

but then again did you know its US air force policy to give pilots crystal meth when they go into combat to keep them more alert.

grow up and open your eyes to the way the world really works.

and have another beer and let yourself be 300 pounds

I agree, but without all the insulting lol.

Most are very uneducated on steroids. I absolutely 100% agree that it should be banned in all sports, because it messes with the integrity and history.

Watching the same documentary that you have, there's a quote that sticks out by Greg Valentino: "Steroids is as American as Apple Pie".

Fact is this. Drugs are drugs. There are side effects to them all, and there are certain side effects from steroids. But there are side effects from an OTC drug you buy at Walgreens.

People on here that are talking about eating burgers should know that the meat your eating came from a cow that was injected with steroids. Same with some chickens.

IMHO, food can be the worst drug out there. Fact is. Many druggies, junkies and all sorts can live into their 50's, 60's even with their addictions. Bad dieting can cause a massive heart attack while in your 40's. It's a catch 22. I'm aware someone can O.D at 15 years old as well. I'm just stating, something as natural as chocolate cake can be somebodies eventual downfall.

All in all, I think your responsible for whatever you put in your body. As I stated, I didn't want to risk severe acne, which is a common side effect while cycling. I chose to bust my balls, and break the bank with healthy foods/supplements to get where I am. But, I have no issues with people who take the short cuts. Some of our most prominent American heros (Hulk Hogan, Sly Stallone) have juiced. Their in their 60's, and looking pretty damn good.

[Night Train]

You could have said " masking agent " and saved us the Gettysburg address.

It was pretty much known that USC was Roid U.

[Prov401]

or you could take anavar and jump your creatine levels by about 20 times and actually get the results you want

lol. I told you, I'm all set with the roids.

What supplement(s) do you use if you don't mind me asking?

[BidsJr]

ty for that.

i love the uneducated views of some that is very insightful.

and yes i am a tool bag if going single 3 years ago at 270 pounds as a fat **** and then deciding i am going to improve my health.

now im 215 with a 6 pack and 16 inch guns :)

ty for the personal attack.

but smoking pot kills too. i am very sorry you that your completely uneducated.

doubly sorry for you that you are naive when it comes to steroids sports and the common young male who is in shape.

i figured id help give the real truth to some people however apparently everything the government tells us is true. and there is only right and wrong according to narrow minded fools like yourself.

but then again did you know its US air force policy to give pilots crystal meth when they go into combat to keep them more alert.

grow up and open your eyes to the way the world really works.

and have another beer and let yourself be 300 pounds


Wow and if there was any sliver of a doubt left....... This is hilarious, please keep typing.

[djjimkelly]

none lol

whats the point.

once again watch bigger faster stronger and tell me when you have a state like utah allowing anyone to package a supplement and then the FDA needs to prove its bad before taking it off the shelf.

90% of supplements are snake oil.

i do of course take whey protein.

i have toyed with NO shotgun as a preworkout tool.

and acne only occurs if you have a genetic flaw or the steroids are dirty(made in a dirty environment or taken improperly).

once again ill say im only casual user once a year to look sick for the summer :)

[Jeff1220]

Sounds like the same thing Manny was caught w/last year.
Btw, I like to try to keep modest, but can't help but say, I'm in pretty good shape and would never consider using that crap. I bust my butt in the gym and track, and do put in a lot of distance miles and I do just fine. Juicing is pretty much on the same level of fake body as plastic surgery. I understand why athletes do it (not that I think that makes it right), but regular guys doing it is especially baffling to me.

[DraftBoy]

Quick Question for anybody:

Is there any other reason to take HcG other than to mask steroids and reboot after a cycle?

[Prov401]

Quick Question for anybody:

Is there any other reason to take HcG other than to mask steroids and reboot after a cycle?

I think it helps with erectile dysfunction if I'm not mistaken.

[DraftBoy]

I think it helps with erectile dysfunction if I'm not mistaken.

Well there is no way he would ever admit to that.

[Griff]

I think this is the same stuff Chris Benoit was taking and feeding his kid before he went on a concussion caused dementia fit and killed his son and wife.

[Prov401]

I think this is the same stuff Chris Benoit was taking and feeding his kid before he went on a concussion caused dementia fit and killed his son and wife.

No. They just found elevated levels of testosterone in his system.

His son had xanax in his system.

Benoit was nice enough to sedate his kid before murdering him.

HCG is a post cycle therapy to help regulate and get you back to your natural testosterone levels. Same exact stuff Manny Ramirez was busted for last year.

[Spiderweb]

I've watched bigger stronger faster. Very insightful.

Last year I was close to trying dianabol, but researched and decided against it. I decided to just bust my ass with protein, creatine, glutamine, water, a multi-vitamin, and a ton of good healthy food. I put on 25lbs since last March, and weigh 205 right now. Busted my ass, and still do, but I feel good knowing I did/do it the hard way.

The only thing that truly scared me away from the juice were the possible thinning of hair, and severe acne breakouts.

HCG is also what Manny Ramirez (LA Dodgers) got busted for last year. PCT treatment.

Humm, you should have spoken to Lyle Alzado, John Matuzak, etc.... They may not agree with you regarding the limited risks you acknowledged. There are many more, with much more serious end results.

[Prov401]

Humm, you should have spoken to Lyle Alzado, John Matuzak, etc.... They may not agree with you regarding the limited risks you acknowledged. There are many more, with much more serious end results.

Hmm...2 men, and how did they die? Last I checked, Lyle Alzado died from a brain tumor, not steroids. And there is absolutely Zero. I repeat. Zero. One more time. Zero knowledge or studies out there, that have shown steroids cause people to die. Nothing, nada, ziltch, period.

Center for Disease Control: FACTS: Tobacco kills 435,000 Americans every year. Alcohol kills 75,000. Deaths from anabolic steroid abuse kills 3 people a year.

FACTS: Hospital room visits as it pertains to any drug/alcohol/vitamin: The list ranks as follow: Alcohol#1. Cocaine#2. Marijuana#3. Meth#11. Aspirin#25. Multi-Vitamin#112. Anabolic Steroids#142.

You, as well as hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people in this country are very, very, very un-educated on steroids. Watch the movie, and you'll see everything I've said is 100% true. Everything.

"There are people out there that can eat a peanut, and go into anaphylactic shock. Do we band peanuts? No. We put warnings on them."

There is no safe drug. Everybody knows this. There is a benefit to risk ratio to every drug. Hundreds of thousands of people each year meet their demise because of alcohol and tobacco. Compared to an average of 3 people each year to anabolic steroids.

Should steroids/PED's be allowed in sports? HELL NO. I'm just making a point that when people hear someone is on steroids... a death sentence, or the thought of balls shrinking, and ligaments being torn apart by this 'posion' are automatically bestowed upon after a huge gasp like someone has plotted to kill the president. It's safer than the pack of cigarettes you buy every day, that's for sure.

Watch Bigger, Faster, Stronger.

[JCBills]

Hmm...2 men, and how did they die? Last I checked, Lyle Alzado died from a brain tumor, not steroids. And there is absolutely Zero. I repeat. Zero. One more time. Zero knowledge or studies out there, that have shown steroids cause people to die. Nothing, nada, ziltch, period.

Center for Disease Control: FACTS: Tobacco kills 435,000 Americans every year. Alcohol kills 75,000. Deaths from anabolic steroid abuse kills 3 people a year.

FACTS: Hospital room visits as it pertains to any drug/alcohol/vitamin: The list ranks as follow: Alcohol#1. Cocaine#2. Marijuana#3. Meth#11. Aspirin#25. Multi-Vitamin#112. Anabolic Steroids#142.

You, as well as hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people in this country are very, very, very un-educated on steroids. Watch the movie, and you'll see everything I've said is 100% true. Everything.

"There are people out there that can eat a peanut, and go into anaphylactic shock. Do we band peanuts? No. We put warnings on them."

There is no safe drug. Everybody knows this. There is a benefit to risk ratio to every drug. Hundreds of thousands of people each year meet their demise because of alcohol and tobacco. Compared to an average of 3 people each year to anabolic steroids.

Should steroids/PED's be allowed in sports? HELL NO. I'm just making a point that when people hear someone is on steroids... a death sentence, or the thought of balls shrinking, and ligaments being torn apart by this 'posion' are automatically bestowed upon after a huge gasp like someone has plotted to kill the president. It's safer than the pack of cigarettes you buy every day, that's for sure.

Watch Bigger, Faster, Stronger.

They just wanted the free applesauce.

[DraftBoy]

Hmm...2 men, and how did they die? Last I checked, Lyle Alzado died from a brain tumor, not steroids. And there is absolutely Zero. I repeat. Zero. One more time. Zero knowledge or studies out there, that have shown steroids cause people to die. Nothing, nada, ziltch, period.

Center for Disease Control: FACTS: Tobacco kills 435,000 Americans every year. Alcohol kills 75,000. Deaths from anabolic steroid abuse kills 3 people a year.

FACTS: Hospital room visits as it pertains to any drug/alcohol/vitamin: The list ranks as follow: Alcohol#1. Cocaine#2. Marijuana#3. Meth#11. Aspirin#25. Multi-Vitamin#112. Anabolic Steroids#142.

You, as well as hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people in this country are very, very, very un-educated on steroids. Watch the movie, and you'll see everything I've said is 100% true. Everything.

"There are people out there that can eat a peanut, and go into anaphylactic shock. Do we band peanuts? No. We put warnings on them."

There is no safe drug. Everybody knows this. There is a benefit to risk ratio to every drug. Hundreds of thousands of people each year meet their demise because of alcohol and tobacco. Compared to an average of 3 people each year to anabolic steroids.

Should steroids/PED's be allowed in sports? HELL NO. I'm just making a point that when people hear someone is on steroids... a death sentence, or the thought of balls shrinking, and ligaments being torn apart by this 'posion' are automatically bestowed upon after a huge gasp like someone has plotted to kill the president. It's safer than the pack of cigarettes you buy every day, that's for sure.

Watch Bigger, Faster, Stronger.

Fatal flaw in your argument is underlined.

Using the logic your doc uses (which Ive seen bits and peices of) tobacco and alcohol have never killed a single person.

They do lead to health complications that can lead to death, but you don't drop dead from smoking a cigarette or taking a swig of alcohol, just as you don't by taking a steroid. When you read a obituary or coroner's report on how someone dies it never reads "Cause of Death: Tobacco", it reads things like Cancer.

This is why you can't believe everything put into docs, they are slanted to a bias always. Steroids don't cause death no, but they sure can lead to it.

You do see how the logic used is actually a fallacy and misleading?

[jamze132]

I just find it amusing that some people need to take roids in the spring to feel good about themselves in the summer.

[Dr. Lecter]

Hmm...2 men, and how did they die? Last I checked, Lyle Alzado died from a brain tumor, not steroids. And there is absolutely Zero. I repeat. Zero. One more time. Zero knowledge or studies out there, that have shown steroids cause people to die. Nothing, nada, ziltch, period.



That is absolutely, 100% untrue.

Steroid use (and abuse) can lead to problems with the body that can bring on death. Hardening of the arteries. Enlarged heart (logical since the heart is a muscle). Liver damage. Kidney damage. Reduced production of natural testosterone once you put the fake stuff in you.

Steroids can, at very least, cause symptoms that can lead to death or ill health.

[DraftBoy]

That is absolutely, 100% untrue.

Steroid use (and abuse) can lead to problems with the body that can bring on death. Hardening of the arteries. Enlarged heart (logical since the heart is a muscle). Liver damage. Kidney damage. Reduced production of natural testosterone once you put the fake stuff in you.

Steroids can, at very least, cause symptoms that can lead to death or ill health.

Its the logic fallacy, the same one I used in my post above. Steroids don't directly cause death, therefor there are zero deaths from steroids. You can apply the same logic to smoking and drinking.

Like you and I both say, give me a statistic and Ill twist it to show what I want it to show.

[Ickybaluky]

The good news for Cushing is he can pass a pregnancy test.

[imbondz]

Its the logic fallacy, the same one I used in my post above. Steroids don't directly cause death, therefor there are zero deaths from steroids. You can apply the same logic to smoking and drinking.

Like you and I both say, give me a statistic and Ill twist it to show what I want it to show.

but that doesn't make it truth. and logically smoking can lead to cancer, which can cause death, so therefore smoking can cause death. logic 101. same with too much alcohol.

Any drug taken too much can lead to death. We don't have enough long term effects of steroids to know that much, but common sense tells you too many steroids can't be a good thing. Lyle Alzado said himself he took tons of steroids and HGH, and he believed that is what led to his brain tumor.

[DraftBoy]

but that doesn't make it truth. and logically smoking can lead to cancer, which can cause death, so therefore smoking can cause death. logic 101. same with too much alcohol.

Any drug taken too much can lead to death. We don't have enough long term effects of steroids to know that much, but common sense tells you too many steroids can't be a good thing. Lyle Alzado said himself he took tons of steroids and HGH, and he believed that is what led to his brain tumor.

That's not exactly logic 101, that's more advanced and that's using common sense. Pure logic 101 deals with direct cause and effect.

Example:
Q-If I smoke a cigarette am I going to drop dead?
A-No

therefor Smoking does not directly cause death. What you're talking about is indirect cause and you are 100% right but, that's a more advanced level, which this docu doesn't use intentionally. Which is the point I was making. Smoking like steroids and alcohol are not direct causes of death but they certainly are indirect.

[HAMMER]

Steroids? Really? So you can look "sick" for the summer? Dumb!

[Ickybaluky]

Even if you think steroids are relatively benign physically, taking them without the input of a medical professional monitoring the effects on your system seems dangerous. They are prescription medicines for a reason, and taking them without supervision is not only illegal, but reckless.

Besides the physical effects, steroids can effect brain chemistry and behavior. There are cases of people suffering bouts of both rage and depression. These sometimes can result in harmful consequence. Look at Chris Benoit.

[Prov401]

Fatal flaw in your argument is underlined.

Using the logic your doc uses (which Ive seen bits and peices of) tobacco and alcohol have never killed a single person.

They do lead to health complications that can lead to death, but you don't drop dead from smoking a cigarette or taking a swig of alcohol, just as you don't by taking a steroid. When you read a obituary or coroner's report on how someone dies it never reads "Cause of Death: Tobacco", it reads things like Cancer.

This is why you can't believe everything put into docs, they are slanted to a bias always. Steroids don't cause death no, but they sure can lead to it.

You do see how the logic used is actually a fallacy and misleading?

No.

Studies have shown that tobacco and alcohol have, definitely attributed to deaths. Fact.

There have been no studies conducted on steroid users. It's a fact. So therefore, there is no argument. There can't be. So are you arguing the Center for Disease control? Because they are the ones that have shown the numbers. 450,000/75,000 to 3.

I have no 'fatal flaw', because quite frankly, ZERO studies have been conduucted on the use of steroids. And this has been noted by actual steroid protesters themselves.

Is steroids dangerous? Probably. As I've stated on the first page, I decided against trying them, and probably never will. However, it just gets a bad rap from people because of the WWF/MLB, and some looney baseball prospect that was diagnosed with 'depression'. So because of a few bad apples, most just look at steroids with tremendous fear, and are ignorant and naive when they talk about them.

Until studies show otherwise, my numbers are accurate, and cannot be disputed. Vitamin C....Vitamin f'n C shows up on the list of ER visits before Steroids do.

[DraftBoy]

No.

Studies have shown that tobacco and alcohol have, definitely attributed to deaths. Fact.

There have been no studies conducted on steroid users. It's a fact. So therefore, there is no argument. There can't be. So are you arguing the Center for Disease control? Because they are the ones that have shown the numbers. 450,000/75,000 to 3.

I have no 'fatal flaw', because quite frankly, ZERO studies have been conduucted on the use of steroids. And this has been noted by actual steroid protesters themselves.

Is steroids dangerous? Probably. As I've stated on the first page, I decided against trying them, and probably never will. However, it just gets a bad rap from people because of the WWF/MLB, and some looney baseball prospect that was diagnosed with 'depression'. So because of a few bad apples, most just look at steroids with tremendous fear, and are ignorant and naive when they talk about them.

Until studies show otherwise, my numbers are accurate, and cannot be disputed. Vitamin C....Vitamin f'n C shows up on the list of ER visits before Steroids do.

You're not following the logic, or seeing how the stats are being used in a bias way. To think that no study has been done in regards to steroids and their negative effects on the body is beyond ridiculous. To each his own, but if you think what you say is the whole truth you're not seeing even 1/2 of the real picture.

[djjimkelly]

Quick Question for anybody:

Is there any other reason to take HcG other than to mask steroids and reboot after a cycle?


its not to mask anything its purely used to kick start natural testosterone production

no other reason at all to use this drug at all.

[djjimkelly]

I think it helps with erectile dysfunction if I'm not mistaken.


yes and no depends on what type of steroid the person has used

[djjimkelly]

You could have said " masking agent " and saved us the Gettysburg address.

It was pretty much known that USC was Roid U.


its not a masking agent

[djjimkelly]

Even if you think steroids are relatively benign physically, taking them without the input of a medical professional monitoring the effects on your system seems dangerous. They are prescription medicines for a reason, and taking them without supervision is not only illegal, but reckless.

Besides the physical effects, steroids can effect brain chemistry and behavior. There are cases of people suffering bouts of both rage and depression. These sometimes can result in harmful consequence. Look at Chris Benoit.


roid rage is a myth.

watch bigger faster stronger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-8MY1Gep_A&feature=related

thats part 1 its actually very educational

if your a dick at 170 pounds and do juice and become 220 you will be a bigger ***** not becuz of any reason except personality type.

[Prov401]

Even if you think steroids are relatively benign physically, taking them without the input of a medical professional monitoring the effects on your system seems dangerous. They are prescription medicines for a reason, and taking them without supervision is not only illegal, but reckless.

Besides the physical effects, steroids can effect brain chemistry and behavior. There are cases of people suffering bouts of both rage and depression. These sometimes can result in harmful consequence. Look at Chris Benoit.

Exactly. It, seems dangerous.

Steroid abuse is and always will be dangerous.

Abusing any drug is dangerous. Period.

Every drug has their risks and rewards. From Vitamin C, all the way to Steroids. I wish we could conduct studies on steroids, because maybe we can be more educated on the risks involved. However, it seems unlikely, and immoral.

For every dead Lyle Alzado, there are alive, well, and prosperous Arnold Schwarzenegger's, Sly Stallone's, Hulk Hogans, and Lou Ferringo's. Why is this? Probably because they monitored there intake of steroids, and didn't abuse them. Same as if someone abused prescripted meds.

There are a ton of people on the juice than you can ever imagine, trust me. Brad Pitt got shredded as all hell for Fight Club with the help of steroids. Hollywood is full of steroids. Sports have came a long way, but were flooded with steroids back in the late 80's/90's.

Every drug is dangerous, and steroid abuse is no different.

[Dr. Lecter]

roid rage is a myth.

watch bigger faster stronger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-8MY1Gep_A&feature=related

thats part 1 its actually very educational

if your a dick at 170 pounds and do juice and become 220 you will be a bigger ***** not becuz of any reason except personality type.

Testosterone can cause aggresive behaivor.

Steriods are, for the most part, derivitaves of steriods.

When you add the extra hormone to yoru body you can also be more aggresive.

There is also the other side effects, such as reduced natural production of testosterone.

[Prov401]

You're not following the logic, or seeing how the stats are being used in a bias way. To think that no study has been done in regards to steroids and their negative effects on the body is beyond ridiculous. To each his own, but if you think what you say is the whole truth you're not seeing even 1/2 of the real picture.

No, sure. In this film I am aware that the documentary is fully showing steroids in a positive light. I'm fully aware of this.

However, being a good film and all, it also isn't biased whatsoever. The guy conducting the whole documentary is against steroids, and doesn't do them himself.

Do I think studies have been conducted? Probably. Many? Absolutely not.

Can steroids prove to be fatal and cause heart disease? Have no clue. But you know what, I know that a whopper and fries (Fatty foods in general) are known to lead to risks of heart disease.

I'm seeing the whole entire picture crystal clear.

[djjimkelly]

I just find it amusing that some people need to take roids in the spring to feel good about themselves in the summer.


i take them so instead of looking at the 9 out 10's

i get to date them :)

:couch:

[Dr. Lecter]

Exactly. It, seems dangerous. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Steroid abuse is and always will be dangerous.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Abusing any drug is dangerous. Period.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Every drug has their risks and rewards. From Vitamin C, all the way to Steroids. I wish we could conduct studies on steroids, because maybe we can be more educated on the risks involved. However, it seems unlikely, and immoral.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
For every dead Lyle Alzado, there are alive, well, and prosperous Arnold Schwarzenegger's, Sly Stallone's, Hulk Hogans, and Lou Ferringo's. Why is this? Probably because they monitored there intake of steroids, and didn't abuse them. Same as if someone abused prescripted meds.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
There are a ton of people on the juice than you can ever imagine, trust me. Brad Pitt got shredded as all hell for Fight Club because of steroids. <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Hollywood</st1:place></st1:City> is full of steroids. Sports have came a long way, but we flooded with steroids back in the late 80's/90's. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Every drug is dangerous, and steroid abuse is no different.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Hulk Hogan is a very bad example and he has health issues. And he did not monitor his intake of steroids. He abused the hell out of them. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
They are not the same as other prescribed medicines, except when used to address a natural deficiency in the body's ability to produce testosterone. The manner in which you describe using them is intentionally overdosing the body on the substance in order to gain an advantage in whatever it is you are aiming for.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
And yes, as somebody who manufactures pharmaceuticals I will attest that all drugs have side effects. But clearly some are worse than others. Steroids fall into this category, due to their psychologically addictive nature, their long lasting effects on the body and the damage to the internal organs they can cause. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[djjimkelly]

Testosterone can cause aggresive behaivor.

Steriods are, for the most part, derivitaves of steriods.

When you add the extra hormone to your body you can also be more aggressive.

There is also the other side effects, such as reduced natural production of testosterone.

wrong do the research

and personally ive never done testosterone.

i have however used primobolon, winstrol, deca durabolin and anavar and ive never felt one ounce of aggresion becuz of it.

[djjimkelly]

and abuse of anything is dangerous

coca cola consumed in a crazy amount is dangerous.

did u know the FDA DEA AND FBI all suggested that steroids should not be illegal in 1990 when they made them i believe a schedule 2 narcotic.

becuz they actually improve health if used properly

im not making this up its fact!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Prov401]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Hulk Hogan is a very bad example and he has health issues. And he did not monitor his intake of steroids. He abused the hell out of them. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
They are not the same as other prescribed medicines, except when used to address a natural deficiency in the body's ability to produce testosterone. The manner in which you describe using them is intentionally overdosing the body on the substance in order to gain an advantage in whatever it is you are aiming for.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And yes, as somebody who manufactures pharmaceuticals I will attest that all drugs have side effects. But clearly some are worse than others. Steroids fall into this category, due to their psychologically addictive nature, their long lasting effects on the body and the damage to the internal organs they can cause. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Hulk Hogan worked 300 nights a year for 25 years bouncing his body off an essential floor. He's a professional wrestler, of course he's beaten down. He's in good health otherwise.

I don't see how steroids are worse than ciagarettes, tobacco, or even pot. I'm sorry. I'm not clear on that.

Again, Steroid ABUSE is/will/can be dangerous. Just ask those 3 people that die each year from them.

But buying 2 packs of cigarettes a day, essentially ABUSING cigarettes can be your downfall. Alcohol poisoning/ABUSE will kill somebody. Abusing cocaine will lead to heart failure. Overall absuing anything, will and can kill somebody. However there are plenty of observations that can be made on some of the people I mentioned that if you don't abuse steroids, you can still be a very healthy person. However, if you do abuse steroids, well... you may be one of those, eh'hmm.....3 people each year that die.

[Dr. Lecter]

wrong do the research

and personally ive never done testosterone.

i have however used primobolon, winstrol, deca durabolin and anavar and ive never felt one ounce of aggresion becuz of it.

First of all just because you did not does not mean that it does not cause it. Not everybody will react the same way.

And you are wrong. You have used testosterone or a derivitave of it.


Stanozolol, commonly sold under the name Winstrol (oral) and Winstrol Depot (intra-muscular), was developed by Winthrop Laboratories in 1962. It is a synthetic anabolic steroid derived from testosterone, and has been approved by the FDA for human use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanozolol

If you are taking this stuff (or have taken it), and do not know that you need to do more research yourself.

[Prov401]

and abuse of anything is dangerous

coca cola consumed in a crazy amount is dangerous.

did u know the FDA DEA AND FBI all suggested that steroids should not be illegal in 1990 when they made them i believe a schedule 2 narcotic.

becuz they actually improve health if used properly

im not making this up its fact!!!!!!!!!!!!

Abuse is the key word in this whole argument.

[Ickybaluky]

Abuse is the key word in this whole argument.

By definition, taking these without oversight from medical professionals or monitoring is abuse. You can call it what you want, but the bottom line is someone who takes steroids is abusing them, because they are meant to be taken under supervision by a doctor.

Also, steroids are chemical compounds that have psychological effects. You can wave aside "roid rage", mood swings and depression, but they are documented side-effects to steroid usage. Google "steroids psychosis" and you will find a lot about it.

Steroids, like any drug, produces withdrawal symptoms. Many of the harmful psychological effects actually occur after use. Depression is a common one, as Testosterone is considered a cause of depression (it was at one time considered a treatment). Steroids are synthetic testosterone.

I'm not telling anyone how to live their life. If someone wants to abuse steroids or any other drugs, that is their business. There may still need to be a lot of research done on the long-term effects, but there are legitimate documented side effects and those should be monitored by a doctor. The fact is, you won't know what you are (or aren't) doing to your body unless you are taking them with supervision. Thus, one would be taking a dangerous risk, IMO.

[Prov401]

By definition, taking these without oversight from medical professionals or monitoring is abuse. You can call it what you want, but the bottom line is someone who takes steroids is abusing them, because they are meant to be taken under supervision by a doctor.

Also, steroids are chemical compounds that have psychological effects. You can wave aside "roid rage", mood swings and depression, but they are documented side-effects to steroid usage. Google "steroids psychosis" and you will find a lot about it.

Steroids, like any drug, produces withdrawal symptoms. Many of the harmful psychological effects actually occur after use. Depression is a common one, as Testosterone is considered a cause of depression (it was at one time considered a treatment). Steroids are synthetic testosterone.

I'm not telling anyone how to live their life. If someone wants to abuse steroids or any other drugs, that is their business. There may still need to be a lot of research done on the long-term effects, but there are legitimate documented side effects and those should be monitored by a doctor. The fact is, you won't know what you are (or aren't) doing to your body unless you are taking them with supervision. Thus, one would be taking a dangerous risk, IMO.

I understand what your trying to say with this comment. But I don't agree.

So, then what your saying is, every day when we take a multi-vitamin without a doctor's note or supervision, we are abusing multi-vitamins? Because, well let's face it, were putting something in our body that can actually cause a visit to the ER. So it's dangerous right?

Seriously. We all know what we mean when we say steroid abuse. I know your being technical, but I'm not buying it. Sure, your right. Technically. But let's be logical and read between the lines here. There are, and I know of, some people who do a cycle of steroids a year. 4-8 weeks on steroids, 4-8 weeks on a post cycle therapy. And hey! They stop. Do you still call them abusers? Because I don't. And most have doctor's with whom they are 100% honest with, and actually have a cleaner bill of health than Joe Shmo who doesn't exercise and eats what he wants, when he wants.

I agree that there are side effects to steroids, as any drug. I definitely believe in some, some cases of roid rage. And usually those cases are from people who abuse steroids year round.

[Dr. Lecter]

I understand what your trying to say with this comment. But I don't agree.

So, then what your saying is, every day when we take a multi-vitamin without a doctor's note or supervision, we are abusing multi-vitamins? Because, well let's face it, were putting something in our body that can actually cause a visit to the ER. So it's dangerous right?

Seriously. We all know what we mean when we say steroid abuse. I know your being technical, but I'm not buying it. Sure, your right. Technically. But let's be logical and read between the lines here. There are, and I know of, some people who do a cycle of steroids a year. 4-8 weeks on steroids, 4-8 weeks on a post cycle therapy. And hey! They stop. Do you still call them abusers? Because I don't. And most have doctor's with whom they are 100% honest with, and actually have a cleaner bill of health than Joe Shmo who doesn't exercise and eats what he wants, when he wants.

I agree that there are side effects to steroids, as any drug. I definitely believe in some, some cases of roid rage. And usually those cases are from people who abuse steroids year round.

Multi-vitamins are not drugs that are to be taken with a prescription and it is not illegal to possess them w/o a prescription.

Steroids and multi are completely different.

[dplus47]

You could have said " masking agent " and saved us the Gettysburg address.

It was pretty much known that USC was Roid U.

Agreed about USC. Maybe even more than Roid U, it's "entitlement U." Kids there think they can do whatever they want.

To be fair to Lincoln, the Gettysburg Address was pretty concise (http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/gettysburg.htm).

[Prov401]

Multi-vitamins are not drugs that are to be taken with a prescription and it is not illegal to possess them w/o a prescription.

Steroids and multi are completely different.

There are indeed multi vitamins than can be prescribed by a doctor.

Just to point out some of the undisputeable positives in steroids.

The absolute only reason Magic Johnson is alive today... Steroids.

There are thousands, and thousands of HIV infected people in this world, that rely on steroids to help them survive. Fact.

The life expectancy of an HIV patient back in the early 90's was between roughly 5-10 years before they developed the AIDS virus, in which would kill them. Because of steroids, people have been known to live 25+ years with HIV, and their white blood cell count is on par with a normal healthy person. So to those who say, "ask Lyle Alzado about steroids", I say ask Magic Johnson about them. And btw, the cocktail of steroids that HIV patients take every day... Are they abusing them? Oh wait. They have a written note saying they can have them. It's fine, they aren't abusing them, it's cool. Or wait, is it because they have the 'good kind' of steroids. Is that it? People who are diagnosed with asthma, what do you think is in their inhaler? Steroids.

I stand firm on my 'abuse' concept, and I don't agree that if your not being observed or prescribed anything by a doctor, that your abusing anything you put into your body. So i guess we all abuse food then right?

EDIT:And just so everyone knows, I'm not attacking your beliefs on steroids or anything. I'm somewhat annyoingly enjoying this debate, and realize it is indeed boiling down to nothing but personal beliefs anyway.

[Dr. Lecter]

There are indeed multi vitamins than can be prescribed by a doctor.

Just to point out some of the undisputeable positives in steroids.

The absolute only reason Magic Johnson is alive today... Steroids.

There are thousands, and thousands of HIV infected people in this world, that rely on steroids to help them survive. Fact.

The life expectancy of an HIV patient back in the early 90's was between roughly 5-10 years before they developed the AIDS virus, in which would kill them. Because of steroids, people have been known to live 25+ years with HIV, and their white blood cell count is on par with a normal healthy person. So to those who say, "ask Lyle Alzado about steroids", I say ask Magic Johnson about them. And btw, the cocktail of steroids that HIV patients take every day... Are they abusing them? Oh wait. They have a written note saying they can have them. It's fine, they aren't abusing them, it's cool.

There is a difference between taking steroids for medical treatment to prolong one's life and taking them to bulk up.

And there are multi-vitamins available in stores. There are not steroids available in stores.

Nobody is saying that there are not viable medical uses for steroids. Treatment of disease of for recovery are legitimate reasons.

Using to them for athletic or muscular gain is dangerous and not a good idea.

[djjimkelly]

Multi-vitamins are not drugs that are to be taken with a prescription and it is not illegal to possess them w/o a prescription.

Steroids and multi are completely different.


well then it becomes a debate of what is legal and what is not.

or possibly morals.

however steroids improve health of many whether it be legit or not.
tell aids patients burn victims, or the elderly who use them to stay healthy. it also happens to make healthy active males look great.

alcohol was illegal in the last 100 years and i guarantee people who kept drinking where looked upon as the devil by some people

steroids werent illegal till 1990 remember that

im not saying right or wrong but if used properly and correctly they have many benefits.

hell the US government has use for METH in the air force

[Prov401]

There is a difference between taking steroids for medical treatment to prolong one's life and taking them to bulk up.

And there are multi-vitamins available in stores. There are not steroids available in stores.

Nobody is saying that there are not viable medical uses for steroids. Treatment of disease of for recovery are legitimate reasons.

Using to them for athletic or muscular gain is dangerous and not a good idea.

How do you think Magic Johnson prevents muscle tissue from succumbing to his virus? One of the biggest factors that HIV patients are prescribed steroids are to 'bulk up', or keep the bulk.

[TedMock]

well then it becomes a debate of what is legal and what is not.

or possibly morals.

however steroids improve health of many whether it be legit or not.
tell aids patients burn victims, or the elderly who use them to stay healthy. it also happens to make healthy active males look great.

alcohol was illegal in the last 100 years and i guarantee people who kept drinking where looked upon as the devil by some people

steroids werent illegal till 1990 remember that

im not saying right or wrong but if used properly and correctly they have many benefits.

hell the US government has use for METH in the air force

They weren't exactly using METH in the way you're portraying it. People see METH and obviously thingk "crystal methane." That is absolutely not what the pilots were being given. They were being given a type of medical amphetamine (not that I agree with the practice) to keep the pilots from suffering flight or pilot fatigue. The drug being used was essentially in the ritalin/dexadrine family more than the speed/crystal meth family. They wanted the pilots awake, not psyched out. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what I think of steroids. They're ILLEGAL. Argument over. Doesn't matter if we feel they should or should not be illegal. They are, case closed, you deserve to be punished appropriately if you're knowingly breaking the law. There is no other argument. Can't do it and challenging authority should be done wisely, calculated and with honest intentions. Most who run around defending illegal acts just blame government conspiracy and talk about how all the legal stuff is worse for you. I just don't get it, I guess.

[chernobylwraiths]

Can any of you guys in the Air Force get me some crystal meth?

[chernobylwraiths]

And stupid me, I had about 20 vials of Humatrope I could have sold for a lot of money too.

[Buddo]

well then it becomes a debate of what is legal and what is not.

or possibly morals.

however steroids improve health of many whether it be legit or not.
tell aids patients burn victims, or the elderly who use them to stay healthy. it also happens to make healthy active males look great.

alcohol was illegal in the last 100 years and i guarantee people who kept drinking where looked upon as the devil by some people

steroids werent illegal till 1990 remember that

im not saying right or wrong but if used properly and correctly they have many benefits.

hell the US government has use for METH in the air force


LSD wasn't illegal until 1966. Many 'drugs' that are now illegal, were not originally. Many of the reasons why things became illegal, is due to their use and abuse. While there may be any number of people who, when left to their own devices, are perfectly capable of making educated decisions about what they can, or can't take, or should, or shouldn't take, there is also a vast supply of the 'clueless'.
A fair proportion of the generalized 'drugs', are not going to be safe to be taken by the 'clueless'.
A common mistake made by us all, is that 'we know better'. We don't.
Just about any 'over the counter' 'drug' that you can buy today, will have a list of instructions for how to take it, and also a list of all possible side effects. I'm guessing that the probable 'under the table' steroids that people are taking , don't.
A case can easily be made for just about any opiate derivative to be a 'good' drug, due to their ability to relieve pain. In a different way, the same can be said for cocaine, with it's previous use as a dental anaesthetic, and also within 'tonic' drinks. Oddly enough, they aren't actually associated so much as 'good' drugs.
The arguments that are taking place here, aren't as much about 'abuse' or 'non-abuse', they are really about controlled use, or non-controlled use. Non-controlled use, is definitely flirting with potential problems. Controlled use, shouldn't be.

[jamze132]

<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:154447" width="480" height="400" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" flashVars="autoPlay=false&dist=www.southparkstudios.com&orig=" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" allownetworking="all" bgcolor="#000000"></embed>

Remember Jimmy from South Park S8?

:lmao:

[jamze132]

i take them so instead of looking at the 9 out 10's

i get to date them :)

:couch:
You could also try working on your personality and then get the 10s.

[Dr. Lecter]

How do you think Magic Johnson prevents muscle tissue from succumbing to his virus? One of the biggest factors that HIV patients are prescribed steroids are to 'bulk up', or keep the bulk.

Did you read a word I wrote?

There is a difference between using steroids under the direction of a doctor to treat a medical condition and using them to improve one's athletic ability or to add muscle mass.

[Dr. Lecter]

well then it becomes a debate of what is legal and what is not.

or possibly morals.

however steroids improve health of many whether it be legit or not.
tell aids patients burn victims, or the elderly who use them to stay healthy. it also happens to make healthy active males look great.

alcohol was illegal in the last 100 years and i guarantee people who kept drinking where looked upon as the devil by some people

steroids werent illegal till 1990 remember that

im not saying right or wrong but if used properly and correctly they have many benefits.

hell the US government has use for METH in the air force

Steroids are not illegal now. They are allowed to be used with a prescription as they should be.

And they help the health of people as I have said a number of times. Cushing and you did not use them for that purpose.

When treating a burn or stroke victim, the benefits outweigh the risks. The comparisons and samples you are giving are not applicable.

[djjimkelly]

You could also try working on your personality and then get the 10s.


lol


LMAO

you know my personality from a football forum. how can you possibly comment about how i conduct myself in this world.

just the same as i dont know truly know how anyone on here conducts their personality.

but i promise you this. most not all hardbodied women are looking for the same in their partner.

the king of queens is a show rarely is this the reality of everyday life.

[djjimkelly]

Steroids are not illegal now. They are allowed to be used with a prescription as they should be.

And they help the health of people as I have said a number of times. Cushing and you did not use them for that purpose.

When treating a burn or stroke victim, the benefits outweigh the risks. The comparisons and samples you are giving are not applicable.


and if i rewind the clock to october 2007 when i went single and i was 270 pounds.

i had a myriad of minor health issues. acid reflux, minor depression, and i will call my back issues sort of major also i had high blood pressure. i have none of these issue now.

all caused by myself being lazy and putting on weight and not feeling good about myself at all.

yes i put myself in that position over 8 years of putting on 10 pounds a year being in a relationship.

so my using them for 2 3 month stints in 2008 and 2009 has put me back to perfect health.

i cant say i did them under doctor supervision. however my doctor did 100% know what i was doing and i checked all my blood levels before, during and after my cycles. she was not concerned the use of steroids at all. ask your doctor what they think of them you'll be surprised at their answers.

the gym and steroids brought me back to perfect health faster then anything.

i originally posted my first post in this thread to educate other posters as to why someone would use HCG. no to indite myself.

i had a purpose to use them. not to cheat and or to make money. not to fool anyone with the shape im in now. purely as the best choice to put myself in the shape i was in my mid 20's. and i knew 1000% yes it would help with the ladies.

steroids arent some miracle drug you still have to work your ass off with the gym diet and cardio.

i didnt abuse them.

i fully believe if used in an educated way they are good for people who are 100% healthy otherwise.

[Jeff1220]

and if i rewind the clock to october 2007 when i went single and i was 270 pounds.

i had a myriad of minor health issues. acid reflux, minor depression, and i will call my back issues sort of major also i had high blood pressure. i have none of these issue now.

all caused by myself being lazy and putting on weight and not feeling good about myself at all.

yes i put myself in that position over 8 years of putting on 10 pounds a year being in a relationship.

so my using them for 2 3 month stints in 2008 and 2009 has put me back to perfect health.

i cant say i did them under doctor supervision. however my doctor did 100% know what i was doing and i checked all my blood levels before, during and after my cycles. she was not concerned the use of steroids at all. ask your doctor what they think of them you'll be surprised at their answers.

the gym and steroids brought me back to perfect health faster then anything.

i originally posted my first post in this thread to educate other posters as to why someone would use HCG. no to indite myself.

i had a purpose to use them. not to cheat and or to make money. not to fool anyone with the shape im in now. purely as the best choice to put myself in the shape i was in my mid 20's. and i knew 1000% yes it would help with the ladies.

steroids arent some miracle drug you still have to work your ass off with the gym diet and cardio.

i didnt abuse them.

i fully believe if used in an educated way they are good for people who are 100% healthy otherwise.

Just busting your butt in the gym and eating better would've done those things for you. Sure it would've taken a little longer, but it would've been real and lacked the risks that roids bring.

[jamze132]

lol


LMAO

you know my personality from a football forum. how can you possibly comment about how i conduct myself in this world.

just the same as i dont know truly know how anyone on here conducts their personality.

but i promise you this. most not all hardbodied women are looking for the same in their partner.

the king of queens is a show rarely is this the reality of everyday life.
You are right, I don't know you at all. And for the record, I would never try to pick up a "hard bodied" woman, its kind of freaky.

[djjimkelly]

Just busting your butt in the gym and eating better would've done those things for you. Sure it would've taken a little longer, but it would've been real and lacked the risks that roids bring.


jeff i agree 100%

and like i said i dont think there are real risks. i wont debate that.

however ill give one last piece of info.

i am turning 37 in 2 months. at that 270 point when i was 34 i knew with alot of work i could be back to where i wanted. i've been successful in life why not be successful at this.

if i was 21 i would have not even dreamed of it.

but the fact is in your mid 30's your body doesnt react like it did in your early 20's.

i did it for no other reason but to help with meeting girls.

sadly i dont like average looking girls and most not all extremely good looking ladies dont like average looking guys.

its not right or wrong its a question of morals.

yes diet and exercise is where it is at. however sometimes life isnt black and white its mainly grey.

and with this aspect of my life i went with grey after i extensively researched it.

and like i said it was still alot of hard work 270 to 215 sounds easy.

but i actually sort of did 270 to 190 with adding 25 pounds of muscle. = 215

i dont regret it would do it again. however i wont ever be fat again

in fact ill do a very light amount this summer again.

[djjimkelly]

You are right, I don't know you at all. And for the record, I would never try to pick up a "hard bodied" woman, its kind of freaky.


let me take that back i dont mean some muscle bound women i think that is gross.

im just talking 30 year old women who still look like they should be a cheer leader :)

[jamze132]

let me take that back i dont mean some muscle bound women i think that is gross.

im just talking 30 year old women who still look like they should be a cheer leader :)
I got ya, but do you really need roids to do that?

[DraftBoy]

Did you read a word I wrote?

There is a difference between using steroids under the direction of a doctor to treat a medical condition and using them to improve one's athletic ability or to add muscle mass.

Nope.

[djjimkelly]

I got ya, but do you really need roids to do that?


no jamze but trust me it does help.

[better days]

You are right, I don't know you at all. And for the record, I would never try to pick up a "hard bodied" woman, its kind of freaky.

I'm with you, I like my women SOFT.

[Prov401]

Did you read a word I wrote?

There is a difference between using steroids under the direction of a doctor to treat a medical condition and using them to improve one's athletic ability or to add muscle mass.

lol, you obviously didn't read what I wrote on page 3.

Anavar is a common drug taken by HIV patients, and by athletes who are cutting. You know what it's for? For muscle gain/strength. Essentially to, 'improve one's athletic ability to add or gain muscle'.

[Dr. Lecter]

lol, you obviously didn't read what I wrote on page 3.

Anavar is a common drug taken by HIV patients, and by athletes who are cutting. You know what it's for? For muscle gain/strength. Essentially to, 'improve one's athletic ability to add or gain muscle'.

For HIV patients it is to replace muscle lost due to disease and to help fight disease.

[Prov401]

For HIV patients it is to replace muscle lost due to disease and to help fight disease.

And?

So wait. Steroids don't hurt sick people, they just hurt healthy people?

You can't argue the facts here.

No long term studies have been conducted on steroid users.

And as I said, the key word here, as in any drug, is abuse.

This is all coming down to morals, and personal beliefs. It's turning into a religious argument, to which there is no right answer. Only, I have the facts that say steroid abuse directly cause 3 deaths per year in the USA. And plenty of healthy Americans cycle on and off of steroids, without abusing them, and are healthier than most people on this board.

[jamze132]

no jamze but trust me it does help.
Until you get them back into the bedroom and they see your little balls cause of the juice.

:lolabove: