Jim Kelly an advocate for new stadium by the falls

[BillsWin]

LINK (http://niagara-gazette.com/buffalo-bills/x712209418/Kelly-still-keen-on-Bills-stadium-in-the-Falls)


Jim Kelly believes Niagara Falls would be a viable location for a new stadium that could ensure the Buffalo Bills’ future in Western New York, but does not feel the time is right to pursue the issue.

Bills owner Ralph Wilson Jr. has never indicated plans to build a new stadium or move the team out of its current home in Orchard Park, and Kelly said he’s not comfortable discussing what will happen “after Mr. Wilson” while the 91-year-old is still alive.

“He’s the guy that has kept this team in this city, and I thank God for him every day,” Kelly said after giving the commencement address at Niagara County Community College on Saturday.

[BillsWin]

Reading between the lines I'd say Kelly knows someone who is very interested in not only buying the Bills, but keeping them in Buffalo.

I also liked the comment he made about the team surprising people. I remember last year he made no attempt at hiding his doubts about the team and their possible success. I remember one day in the offseason, he was on a radio station and said something to the effect of, "T.O won't make the Bills a winner." and that he was worried the team wasn't ready. He criticized the no-huddle offense and the firing of Turk Schonert so close to the season.

For him to say, "I was out there watching the other day and I think this team might surprise people.” Well, that is a much different tune from the one he was singing last season.

Not saying we are going to the playoffs, but it at the very least, makes me more excited for training camp.

[TacklingDummy]

Not a good time looking for state aid to help build a stadium.

[clumping platelets]

That's a terrible location........it needs to be downtown or in Clarence/Lancaster

[BertSquirtgum]

niagara falls or somwhere in niagara county is a perfect location. it's closer to the rochester fans and canadian fans. they could put the stadium on the land where bell air space used to be right by the airport. there are a lot of options for niagara county. the taxes are also cheaper. i understand people in buffalo would be angry because they would actually travel farther than 20 miles like the rest of us to do now anyway. downtown buffalo would be a huge cluster f**k. it's a madhouse with sabres games. i can't imagine 75,000 people leaving a stadium downtown.

[more cowbell]

A stadium downtown and the bills staying would be the best possible thing next to a superbowl.

but like us winning the superbowl, I dont see it happening anytime soon (even a stadium in niagara falls)

[PromoTheRobot]

Build it the Falls but as close to the Rainbow bridge as possible. Then you don't just build a stadium. You build an entire entertainment/hotel complex with the stadium, something akin to Patriot* Place. Now you have just created a huge attraction right next to one of the wonders of the natural world.

No question NF, NY is a pale sister to NF, ON but building this would level the playing field. NF, ON is never gonna have an NFL team. Now you have a place Canadians will cross over to visit. And speaking of Canada, the Falls are 30 miles closer to Toronto without leaving the USA. Canadian fans could park in Canada and walk across the bridge to the game. In fact I predict a complex like this would get at least one Super Bowl bid. (A domed stadium, of course.)

Frankly putting the Bills into a tourist center would do wonders for the image of the franchise. Glitzy tourist area with casinos, hotels, attractions...oh and we have NFL games too. Imagine bringing in free agents. They'll see a dome, no worries about playing in snow. They see nice hotels and cool stuff right outside the stadium.

And it doesn't end there. NCAA Final Four? Why not? Bowl game? Sure! How about an annual Sabres vs Leafs game in front of 72,000? No weather worries.

Building in the Falls...the way I described it, not in the middle of nowhere Niagara County.... would be the smartest way to keep the Bills in WNY.

PTR

PTR

[BertSquirtgum]

that is a great idea ptr. the stadium wall still sucks though.

[clumping platelets]

Fans east of Buffalo >>> Fans in Canada

Move the stadium northeast of Buffalo.......makes it easier for fans in Rochester and further east, no real change for Canadian fans because the distance from the border to OP is about the same as it is to Clarence/Lancaster, hurts southern tier fans but there are likely fewer fans in that region so the negative aspects is limited

[BertSquirtgum]

moving it to lancaster or clarence would be pointless. might as well leave it in orchard park if that was the case. the falls would be much better, IMO.

[X-Era]

Goat Island would never happen, no way we could get enough people to go along with eating up pretty much all of the park for a stadium and parking lot.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=43.082054,-79.070706&spn=0.01423,0.027595&t=h&z=15

Maybe over by Packer Ave. to the west of 190... close to the Airport.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=43.100795,-78.999939&spn=0.028452,0.055189&t=h&z=14

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=43.101234,-78.975735&spn=0.056904,0.110378&t=h&z=13

Personally, I think downtown Buffalo on the water would be cool.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=42.861181,-78.870249&spn=0.028563,0.055189&t=h&z=14

or

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=42.816307,-78.854885&spn=0.057168,0.110378&t=h&z=13

Area is an issue. Using a coarse measurement, the current stadium takes up 3000 feet by 5000 feet. Several of those locations would be tight.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Niagara+Falls&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&sll=42.772471,-78.782315&sspn=0.013514,0.027595&split=1&rq=1&ev=p&radius=0.84&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=&ll=42.772566,-78.786564&spn=0.014302,0.027595&z=15

[TacklingDummy]

Who's paying for this stadium?

[jamze132]

I don't think 20 extra miles is going to disapoint too many fans when the alternative is Los Angeles.

[YardRat]

From January...

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=186857

[Mr. Pink]

I advocate Jim Kelly shutting up about anything to do with the team.

He has stupid idea after stupid idea.

I'm sure the people of Niagara County would love to help finance the team through their tax dollars for a team named Buffalo!

Why don't we just throw the team in Batavia and call them the Western New York Bills instead?

And for those who think the stadium downtown is such a dumb idea....how do other cities handle it? The two closest teams to us geographically have...DOWNTOWN STADIUMS! Who woulda thunk it?!?

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

It would be a good way to tear half that s-hole city down.

[HHURRICANE]

We are talking about the same Western New York region that couldn't get the Adelphia building built, the Peace Bridge reworked, and the Casino issue resloved?

Now they have an abandandon Statler Building, a steel shell casino, and of course the crappy side of the Falls is on the US side.

Good Luck!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't care anymore about any of this. I will believe it when I see it and I don't care where a new stadium is built as long as they stay in the area.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Although it would make the most sense to have it in the city. The peace bridge is 2 seconds away, Fans from Rochester would be traveling about the same distance.

[don137]

Today's economics are totally different than just a few years ago. It will be a very hard sell to get government funding to build a new stadium with so much debt and needs. Not saying it will not happen but it will be tough.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Who's paying for this stadium?
Me!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't think 20 extra miles is going to disapoint too many fans when the alternative is Los Angeles.
agreed!

[Mindbender]

I'd be a fan of a Niagara Falls stadium. A stadium in downtown Buffalo would be nuts. Logistical nightmare.

[OpIv37]

niagara falls or somwhere in niagara county is a perfect location. it's closer to the rochester fans and canadian fans.

How is that closer to Rochester fans? I grew up in Rochester and I went to Niagara University for 2 years, so I've done that drive many, many times. Niagara Falls is no closer to Rochester than Orchard Park. I suppose it could be closer if the stadium was in the eastern part of Niagara County, away from the Falls. but then Rochester fans would have to take 104 instead of I90, which sucks: too many lights/rural portions, and 104 isn't equipped to handle game-day traffic in it's current form (or, at least it wasn't when I lived in the area).

A stadium in Niagara County wouldn't really affect Rochester fans one way or the other. It's about the same.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'd be a fan of a Niagara Falls stadium. A stadium in downtown Buffalo would be nuts. Logistical nightmare.
No it wouldn't.

[OpIv37]

Downtown stadiums kill the tailgating atmosphere. Just ask anyone who's ever been to a game in Baltimore or who has gone to one of the Toronto games.

[Night Train]

Between Downtown Buffalo & Niagara Falls, NF is the far superior idea.

Buffalo doesn't have a place to put it right now and the thruways around downtown would be a complete bottleneck. A logistical disaster.

NF has lots of land to develop and is right next to 2-3 bridges to Canada, where a ton of fans come from. It would be a few extra minutes for the Rochester fans but it's location ( think Falls, Hotels & Casino ) that would be the major factors, in addition to available land to develop.

Having said that, I never see it happening. This state is beyond broke and private funding would have to build a retractable dome to make it work.

Kelly is just dreaming out loud.

[Don't Panic]

Downtown stadiums kill the tailgating atmosphere. Just ask anyone who's ever been to a game in Baltimore or who has gone to one of the Toronto games.

Agreed. If a new one is built, there is no logical place to put it downtown. Not to hot on the Clarence idea either... might as well just leave it where it is and save the money. There is one spot that shortens the trip for people from Canada, the north suburbs, Rochester to some extent, and Niagara Falls. It is where the 290, the 190 and the Grand Island Bridge meet. I don't know the details of what's around there, but I remember having to roll up the window as a kid as we passed all the silos on the way to the bridge. There are three ways in and out though, and it would help develop that area (as well as Grand Island). Here it is:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=I-190+and+I-290+Buffalo,+NY&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.999041,79.013672&ie=UTF8&ll=43.000379,-78.913937&spn=0.06001,0.154324&t=h&z=13

[pcnorth22]

people who think a downtown stadium would be a logistical nightmare... probably don't go downtown too often...

smack it on the eastern edge of downtown... where there's plenty of room to tailgate...

then when people leave; to go to the Northtowns, eastern suburbs, Southtowns, Rochester, Canada... wherever... there are plenty of options of getting out of the city...

the 33, the Skyway, the 190 South, the 190 North; or drive through the city on South Park, Seneca, Clinton, Broadway, William, Genesee, Main, Delaware, Elmwood, Niagara...

its **** to get out of Orchard Park for a lot longer than it would be to get out of downtown...

right now, the traffic leaving RWS, 95% of it is travelling North...

[OpIv37]

Agreed. If a new one is built, there is no logical place to put it downtown. Not to hot on the Clarence idea either... might as well just leave it where it is and save the money. There is one spot that shortens the trip for people from Canada, the north suburbs, Rochester to some extent, and Niagara Falls. It is where the 290, the 190 and the Grand Island Bridge meet. I don't know the details of what's around there, but I remember having to roll up the window as a kid as we passed all the silos on the way to the bridge. There are three ways in and out though, and it would help develop that area (as well as Grand Island). Here it is:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=I-190+and+I-290+Buffalo,+NY&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.999041,79.013672&ie=UTF8&ll=43.000379,-78.913937&spn=0.06001,0.154324&t=h&z=13

I was there about 3 years ago and the windows still need to be rolled up.

[BertSquirtgum]

I advocate Jim Kelly shutting up about anything to do with the team.

He has stupid idea after stupid idea.

I'm sure the people of Niagara County would love to help finance the team through their tax dollars for a team named Buffalo!

Why don't we just throw the team in Batavia and call them the Western New York Bills instead?

And for those who think the stadium downtown is such a dumb idea....how do other cities handle it? The two closest teams to us geographically have...DOWNTOWN STADIUMS! Who woulda thunk it?!?
you're such a moron. other cities actually have a network of highways. does buffalo? no, it's just one two lane peice of s**t running through the outside of downtown. have you ever even been to downtown buffalo?

[BertSquirtgum]

How is that closer to Rochester fans? I grew up in Rochester and I went to Niagara University for 2 years, so I've done that drive many, many times. Niagara Falls is no closer to Rochester than Orchard Park. I suppose it could be closer if the stadium was in the eastern part of Niagara County, away from the Falls. but then Rochester fans would have to take 104 instead of I90, which sucks: too many lights/rural portions, and 104 isn't equipped to handle game-day traffic in it's current form (or, at least it wasn't when I lived in the area).

A stadium in Niagara County wouldn't really affect Rochester fans one way or the other. It's about the same.
actually...... it would be about 20 minutes closer.

i love people that don't even live in this area actually speaking up about this. what a joke.

[OpIv37]

actually...... it would be about 20 minutes closer.

i love people that don't even live in this area actually speaking up about this. what a joke.
No. It wouldn't. I've driven from Rochester to Orchard Park many times. I've driven from Rochester to Niagara Falls many more times. It is not closer. I don't live in the area now, but I did live in the area for 20 ****ing years so I know what I'm talking about.

Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe Google:

Rochester to Orchard Park: 1 hr, 19 minutes- 80 mi
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=FWB9kgIdO65f-ylTsxSWBbPWiTEe5iVB_B8AWg%3BFceUjAIdkXZO-ykDbQRECAbTiTGQCb6C76Yt3Q&q=Rochester,+NY+to+Orchard+Park,+NY+&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.310476,79.013672&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=10&saddr=Rochester,+NY&daddr=Orchard+Park,+NY

Rochester to Niagara Falls: 1 hr, 29 minutes- 86 mi
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Rochester,+NY+to+Niagara+Falls,+NY&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.310476,79.013672&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=9

Take a geography class.

[Mindbender]

:busted:

[BertSquirtgum]

my friends and i drive it once a month to this date. you are incorrect. i don't care what google says. so you say you drove it when 20 years ago?

i don't see how that's possible when you could get on route 31 from hyde park boulevard and make it to rochester in an hour and 10 minutes.

[OpIv37]

my friends and i drive it once a month to this date. you are incorrect. i don't care what google says. so you say you drove it when 20 years ago?

First, it wasn't 20 years ago- I said I lived in Rochester for 20 years. It was 10 years ago when I did it regularly, and most recently I did it 3 years ago. So, what highways did they build that cuts 20 minutes off between Rochester and NF? I'll probably end up doing the trip again sometime, so if there's a shortcut, I'd like to know.

[BertSquirtgum]

i didn't say anything about a highway. i said route 31. try it sometime if you're going to n.f. i don't live there but one of my friends does and it's where we drive from.

[PromoTheRobot]

Goat Island would never happen, no way we could get enough people to go along with eating up pretty much all of the park for a stadium and parking lot.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=43.082054,-79.070706&spn=0.01423,0.027595&t=h&z=15

Maybe over by Packer Ave. to the west of 190... close to the Airport.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=43.100795,-78.999939&spn=0.028452,0.055189&t=h&z=14

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=43.101234,-78.975735&spn=0.056904,0.110378&t=h&z=13

Personally, I think downtown Buffalo on the water would be cool.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=42.861181,-78.870249&spn=0.028563,0.055189&t=h&z=14

or

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=niagara+falls+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+NY&ll=42.816307,-78.854885&spn=0.057168,0.110378&t=h&z=13

Area is an issue. Using a coarse measurement, the current stadium takes up 3000 feet by 5000 feet. Several of those locations would be tight.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Niagara+Falls&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&sll=42.772471,-78.782315&sspn=0.013514,0.027595&split=1&rq=1&ev=p&radius=0.84&hq=Niagara+Falls&hnear=&ll=42.772566,-78.786564&spn=0.014302,0.027595&z=15

Forget Goat Island. That's state park land. Best place would be 2nd St by the Day's Inn. (Actually tear down the Days Inn.) There's more land along Falls Ave from 10th to 14th but it's a crappier part of town and you are further from the Falls.

Downtown Buffalo is the worst place to put it. The geniuses who built HSBC said it would draw development. Bullcrap. They could have built it where the development already was: Chippawa & Genesee. Then you would have had nightlife, restaurants and attractions feeding off the arena.

That's why you want to be in the Falls, right at the Falls. People around the world know Niagara falls. The city is crap but the attraction is still there. The idea is to revive the US side with a stadium complex.

Who pays for it? Totally agree it can't be government. It will have to be the new owners and that means: PSL's!!! There's no way around it. Government can smooth the way and pick up some of the infrastructure costs but Bills fans will have to pony up the dough to build the new playpen.

One way to take the sting out of the PSL idea is to make it a loan instead of a fee. The idea would be that you would get your money back in a certain time. Another idea is you make the PSL a pre-payment on season tickets. Say your season tickets cost $1,000 a year. You pay $5,000 PSL but you get $500 a year off your tickets for ten years.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

you're such a moron. other cities actually have a network of highways. does buffalo? no, it's just one two lane peice of s**t running through the outside of downtown. have you ever even been to downtown buffalo?
I don't think you've ever been to downtown Buffalo either because there are 3 4-lane highways going through it: I-190, Rt.5 Skyway and the Rt.33 Kensington Expressway.

But I agree that downtown Buffalo would be a terrible place, but not for the same reasons as yours.

PTR

[mikemac2001]

i live in rochester and love coming to games in orchard park

but i would love to go to games in NF or DT buffalo

but for some reason for the future of the bills i feel the NF option is the best one it does make the most business sense. also like PTR stated more opportunity's to bring in bigger events during the offseason

[pcnorth22]

you're such a moron. other cities actually have a network of highways. does buffalo? no, it's just one two lane peice of s**t running through the outside of downtown. have you ever even been to downtown buffalo?

have you ever been there?

what's the two lane highway thats the only way to get out of downtown?

[OpIv37]

Forget Goat Island. That's state park land. Best place would be 2nd St by the Day's Inn. (Actually tear down the Days Inn.) There's more land along Falls Ave from 10th to 14th but it's a crappier part of town and you are further from the Falls.

Downtown Buffalo is the worst place to put it. The geniuses who built HSBC said it would draw development. Bullcrap. They could have built it where the development already was: Chippawa & Genesee. Then you would have had nightlife, restaurants and attractions feeding off the arena.

That's why you want to be in the Falls, right at the Falls. People around the world know Niagara falls. The city is crap but the attraction is still there. The idea is to revive the US side with a stadium complex.

Who pays for it? Totally agree it can't be government. It will have to be the new owners and that means: PSL's!!! There's no way around it. Government can smooth the way and pick up some of the infrastructure costs but Bills fans will have to pony up the dough to build the new playpen.

One way to take the sting out of the PSL idea is to make it a loan instead of a fee. The idea would be that you would get your money back in a certain time. Another idea is you make the PSL a pre-payment on season tickets. Say your season tickets cost $1,000 a year. You pay $5,000 PSL but you get $500 a year off your tickets for ten years.

PTR

while I hate the concept of PSL's, they really aren't as expensive as they appear. Usually they go for 30 years, and you can finance the $5000 over the life of the PSL at a reasonable interest rate (I think Dallas does 4%). Depending on how they compute the interest, in that example it's about $286 a year. I'm sure no one wants their season tix to go up by $286 a year, but for most people that won't break the bank. And I'm sure they can come up with some kind of assistance program for people with lower incomes.

[PromoTheRobot]

while I hate the concept of PSL's, they really aren't as expensive as they appear. Usually they go for 30 years, and you can finance the $5000 over the life of the PSL at a reasonable interest rate (I think Dallas does 4%). Depending on how they compute the interest, in that example it's about $286 a year. I'm sure no one wants their season tix to go up by $286 a year, but for most people that won't break the bank. And I'm sure they can come up with some kind of assistance program for people with lower incomes.

The harsh reality is if WNY has a prayer of keeping the Bills a new stadium will have to be built. And the only way to pay for it will be with PSL's or something similar. The NFL is an expensive club to belong to.

PTR

[billz83]

a bills stadium near the falls would be perfect like sumone else already said they could build an entire entertainment complex around them..and maybe then we could finally host a super bowl!! imagine that..

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't think you've ever been to downtown Buffalo either because there are 3 4-lane highways going through it: I-190, Rt.5 Skyway and the Rt.33 Kensington Expressway.

But I agree that downtown Buffalo would be a terrible place, but not for the same reasons as yours.

PTR
maybe so. the majority of those 3 lanes are heading south. i would be worried about the traffic getting to the highways. it would be HUGE cluster f**k. i have sat in sabres traffic when i needed to take a piss. i got out of my cousins car and pissed in a parking lot after holding it for thirty minutes. i don't want to imagine the traffic 75,000 peole will create. let alone the canadian traffic heading north trying to get on the peace bridge.

[BertSquirtgum]

have you ever been there?

what's the two lane highway thats the only way to get out of downtown?

more than you think. we have gotten off by pearl street brewery and headed towards elmwood to hertel to ontario to get back on after the peace just to get around the backed up canadian traffic. driving down those city streets is the worst.

[Mr. Pink]

you're such a moron. other cities actually have a network of highways. does buffalo? no, it's just one two lane peice of s**t running through the outside of downtown. have you ever even been to downtown buffalo?


You've obviously never been to Cleveland or Pittsburgh or else you'd realize that Cleveland for example only has one main highway that runs through it, 90, and then 2 highways that run in to 90...the 71 and 77.

They handle the traffic just fine.

Even on days when baseball and football was going on at the same time.

[BertSquirtgum]

whatever you say. i've been is so many traffic jams in downtown buffalo. my opinion is just that, my opinion, that's all.

[Wolffman]

Ok just an opinion from someone who lives in Pittsburgh and goes to Heinz Stadium on a regular basis (I'm a student at Pitt and we play our football games there).

Having a downtown stadium does NOT create a bad tailgating atmosphere. I've been to many Pitt and Bills games and I've had much more fun at Pitt games. There are places to tailgate and have fun doing so. Just because a stadium is in a city doesn't mean there won't be any parking lots to drink in. And if anyone has ever been to Pittsburgh you know how bad the roads are, but the traffic isn't nearly as bad as at the Ralph.

Having a stadium in downtown Buffalo will immediately jumpstart development. Think about it this way: along the Buffalo River and south on Lake Erie you can have a chain of high density entertainment development. Starting with Canalside/Naval Park/Marina at the North, running through the Cobblestone district (Arena, a rapidly growing neighborhood with bars and residences, Casino) and south to the Outer Harbor which is basically open for development from the Marina at the north to Bethlehem Steel at the south. A new destination can be created on the Outer Harbor; football stadium, bars, clubs, museums, theme park... who knows. Pittsburgh built an entire section of the city around Three Rivers Stadium/Heinz Field/PNC Park. It would be the best case for Buffalo. Build a retractable dome so it can be used for concerts and other events during the off-season. Even have the Bisons move in. I know a lot of this is being pretty optimistic but anyone who cares about Buffalo will see this as a dream come true.

I'm sick of people wanting to build a new stadium in the Falls or Lancaster or whatever. It is the BUFFALO Bills. The stadium should benefit the residents of Buffalo. Driving an extra 20 min should not be a turn off if you're paying hundreds of dollars for season tickets.

[BertSquirtgum]

why aren't they called the orchard park bills then? that point is invalid. they don't have to be right in the downtown to be called BUFFALO.

[TacklingDummy]

I still don't see anyone explaining who's going to pay for a new stadium.

[Wolffman]

why aren't they called the orchard park bills then? that point is invalid. they don't have to be right in the downtown to be called BUFFALO.

Your missing the point. The team, and therefore all the economic benefits of having the team, is Buffalo's. So instead of building a stadium in OP or Lancaster or NF, build one where it will have the most economic effect on the whole area. The city will benefit from people visiting bars and restaurants before and after games, hotels being filled by visitors, parking fees, etc. This doesn't even consider the future development a stadium could bring. The stronger the city of Buffalo is, the stronger all of WNY is.

[Dr. Pepper]

actually...... it would be about 20 minutes closer.

i love people that don't even live in this area actually speaking up about this. what a joke.

LOL thats funny. I grew up in Rochester, live in Buffalo, and worked in the Falls for 3 years.... I can tell you 100% that a stadium in the Falls is no help whatsoever to those driving in from Rochester. maybe it would be 20 minutes closer for the 12 people who live in Hilton, since they could take the parkway?

i love people that dont even live in rochester actually speaking up about this. what a joke.

[Mr. Pink]

whatever you say. i've been is so many traffic jams in downtown buffalo. my opinion is just that, my opinion, that's all.


Oh no traffic!!!

Los Angeles should never have a sports team period then.

Neither should Chicago.

I've come to learn that people who ***** about traffic in Buffalo are people who have never lived anywhere else.

What would you do if you lived in LA? Never leave your house?

Fact of the matter is the stadium should have been built downtown to begin with and not out in Orchard Park. If a new stadium is ever built there is only one place it should go, downtown.

[BertSquirtgum]

LOL thats funny. I grew up in Rochester, live in Buffalo, and worked in the Falls for 3 years.... I can tell you 100% that a stadium in the Falls is no help whatsoever to those driving in from Rochester. maybe it would be 20 minutes closer for the 12 people who live in Hilton, since they could take the parkway?

i love people that dont even live in rochester actually speaking up about this. what a joke.
did you fail to read my post about me traveling to rochester from niagara falls once a month?

so you're right. i don't live there but i personally travel this route and have timed it.

[BertSquirtgum]

i hate traffic which is why i would never move to a metropolis.

[BertSquirtgum]

i'm done arguing. our traffic points are all moot. a new stadium will never be built so there is no point in arguing anymore. new york state can't even keep state parks open. let alone help fund a new nfl stadium.

[THATHURMANATOR]

whatever you say. i've been is so many traffic jams in downtown buffalo. my opinion is just that, my opinion, that's all.
Yet you are calling others idiots over your "opinion" which seems ill informed. The stadium as it stands is surrounded by 1 lane roads at each parking lot entrance. I don't see how this is any better than a stadium downtown. The traffic for those that don't leave a Bill's game early currently takes me over an hour for a normal 7 minute drive I live away from the Ralph.

[BertSquirtgum]

idiots? nope. moron? yes......and i only called one person a moron.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

:idea: I got it! the perfect spot, It's close to the Seneca Niagara Falls Casino and close to the Rainbow Bridge

It's the Rainbow Centre Mall site (80,000 square feet). It's been vacant for years and NF has been trying to revitalize the Mall ever since it closed. There was even a deal to change it into a culanary school but that deal fell through just last week.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=76807&catid=13

rip down the mall and build the stadium.

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[YardRat]

I still don't see anyone explaining who's going to pay for a new stadium.

Barry Snyder.

[jamze132]

The Bills, if moved elsewhere in WNY, should be called the New York Bills, seeing how they are the only team that actually plays games in the state.

[MikeNC]

Oh no traffic!!!

Los Angeles should never have a sports team period then.

Neither should Chicago.

I've come to learn that people who ***** about traffic in Buffalo are people who have never lived anywhere else.

What would you do if you lived in LA? Never leave your house?

Fact of the matter is the stadium should have been built downtown to begin with and not out in Orchard Park. If a new stadium is ever built there is only one place it should go, downtown.

Build it downtown, the spin off business will surprise you, the city will begin to show life again...As for the traffic, there is none in Buffalo..I can go to Bank of America stadium in Charlotte and be home in twenty minutes, there are so many ways to go, and thats not even using the interstates. I will admit the tailgate experience is so much more lame here, but so are the fans, they are not harden fans....The only time the tailgating is good is when BUF or PIT come to town.....

[PromoTheRobot]

Build it downtown, the spin off business will surprise you, the city will begin to show life again...As for the traffic, there is none in Buffalo..I can go to Bank of America stadium in Charlotte and be home in twenty minutes, there are so many ways to go, and thats not even using the interstates. I will admit the tailgate experience is so much more lame here, but so are the fans, they are not harden fans....The only time the tailgating is good is when BUF or PIT come to town.....

Disagree totally. Want proof? Look at HSBC Arena. Name any development it brought. Bass Pro?? Wait another 20 years. Not convinced? Look at RWS. Name one bit of development it brought in 37 years, other than people parking cars on their lawns.

The truth is a stadium or arena does not spur development on its own. You need something going on already. Then a stadium can grow from that. Downtown Buffalo is a black hole. Downtown Niagara Falls is a crap pile right now but it has a casino, a natural attraction, and a major tourist destination just across the river.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

:idea: I got it! the perfect spot, It's close to the Seneca Niagara Falls Casino and close to the Rainbow Bridge

It's the Rainbow Centre Mall site (80,000 square feet). It's been vacant for years and NF has been trying to revitalize the Mall ever since it closed. There was even a deal to change it into a culanary school but that deal fell through just last week.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=76807&catid=13

rip down the mall and build the stadium.

...or turn the mall into the entertainment complex and put the stadium just north on 2nd street, right next to the Days Inn that should be torn down and replaced with a deluxe resort hotel.

PTR

[OpIv37]

Disagree totally. Want proof? Look at HSBC Arena. Name any development it brought. Bass Pro?? Wait another 20 years. Not convinced? Look at RWS. Name one bit of development it brought in 37 years, other than people parking cars on their lawns.

The truth is a stadium or arena does not spur development on its own. You need something going on already. Then a stadium can grow from that. Downtown Buffalo is a black hole. Downtown Niagara Falls is a crap pile right now but it has a casino, a natural attraction, and a major tourist destination just across the river.

PTR

This is actually very true. When I was in grad school, DC was arguing over where to put the Nationals stadium so we studied this... in fact, stadiums and arenas usually do little in terms of economic development. The stadium itself mostly employees part time and seasonal workers, and the surrounding jobs it brings are mostly low-paying jobs, like retail, bars, and restaurants. Now, if you put a stadium in a place like Southeast DC where there is literally NOTHING, it's still a slight improvement, but in the long run, the perception that stadiums/arenas drive development doesn't match with the actual real-world results.

[trapezeus]

not to mention that stadium financing ends up in the red time and time again.

The nfl and their desire for other people to foot the bill for something they profit on but don't pay for is exactly what's wrong with government.

The ralph was not built to be a a 30 year, stadium. they expect more life otu of it. so they should go get it. They should have never put that stadium out there, but they did and that's what we have. it's a great stadium for fans.

[THATHURMANATOR]

not to mention that stadium financing ends up in the red time and time again.

The nfl and their desire for other people to foot the bill for something they profit on but don't pay for is exactly what's wrong with government.

The ralph was not built to be a a 30 year, stadium. they expect more life otu of it. so they should go get it. They should have never put that stadium out there, but they did and that's what we have. it's a great stadium for fans.
Isn't the Ralph 40 years old?

[trapezeus]

35... i thought it was built in 75...i could be wrong.

i just don't think stadiums are built to be used for 20-30 years and then scrapped. they are sturdy and have a useful life, if kept up for 100 years. the ralph was built for so cheap in absolute dollars. i have no idea what the cost of the ralph was, but i'm sure it's less than the half a billion or so it would take to build one now. Maybe inflation makes it a wash, but the stadium is here.

[THATHURMANATOR]

35... i thought it was built in 75...i could be wrong.

i just don't think stadiums are built to be used for 20-30 years and then scrapped. they are sturdy and have a useful life, if kept up for 100 years. the ralph was built for so cheap in absolute dollars. i have no idea what the cost of the ralph was, but i'm sure it's less than the half a billion or so it would take to build one now. Maybe inflation makes it a wash, but the stadium is here.
1973

[Nighthawk]

This is actually very true. When I was in grad school, DC was arguing over where to put the Nationals stadium so we studied this... in fact, stadiums and arenas usually do little in terms of economic development. The stadium itself mostly employees part time and seasonal workers, and the surrounding jobs it brings are mostly low-paying jobs, like retail, bars, and restaurants. Now, if you put a stadium in a place like Southeast DC where there is literally NOTHING, it's still a slight improvement, but in the long run, the perception that stadiums/arenas drive development doesn't match with the actual real-world results.

The stadium should be part of a larger entertainement/business venture. This area needs a large convention center to bring in business and NF is an ideal location to host conventions. This can be attached to the stadium (which needs to be a retractable dome and then you'll see more expos and people being brought to the area.

It makes way too much sense, so it will never happen.

[trapezeus]

are convention centers really forward looking? I don't know. but the way technology is changing for meetings and such, and the cost cutting of preventing a lot of conventions and industry gatherings, there is a smaller pool of groups doing soires'. And when they do, they do vegas and warm weather areas.

Buffalo might have to actually follow a new path in building itself and not follow an outdated model.

[better days]

are convention centers really forward looking? I don't know. but the way technology is changing for meetings and such, and the cost cutting of preventing a lot of conventions and industry gatherings, there is a smaller pool of groups doing soires'. And when they do, they do vegas and warm weather areas.

Buffalo might have to actually follow a new path in building itself and not follow an outdated model.

I agree, & I doubt a stadium would add much to a City getting conventions anyway.

[PromoTheRobot]

35... i thought it was built in 75...i could be wrong.

i just don't think stadiums are built to be used for 20-30 years and then scrapped. they are sturdy and have a useful life, if kept up for 100 years. the ralph was built for so cheap in absolute dollars. i have no idea what the cost of the ralph was, but i'm sure it's less than the half a billion or so it would take to build one now. Maybe inflation makes it a wash, but the stadium is here.

Rich Stadium, as it was called then, was built for $23M in 1973. It has had several upgrades since. It used to hold 80,000+. Now it's about 73,000, having lost seating to the addition of luxury boxes. That same year Sullivan/Foxboro Stadium was opened. It cost $6M and looked it. It was obsolete before they finished it.

Here's a bit of irony for you. The Bills were the first NFL team to sell stadium naming rights. They got a whopping $1M to name the stadium after Rich Products, makers of Coffee-Rich, for 25 years. Now Ralph hates the idea.

PTR

[better days]

Rich Stadium, as it was called then, was built for $23M in 1973. It has had several upgrades since. It used to hold 80,000+. Now it's about 73,000, having lost seating to the addition of luxury boxes. That same year Sullivan/Foxboro Stadium was opened. It cost $6M and looked it. It was obsolete before they finished it.

Here's a bit of irony for you. The Bills were the first NFL team to sell stadium naming rights. They got a whopping $1M to name the stadium after Rich Products, makers of Coffee-Rich, for 25 years. Now Ralph hates the idea.

PTR

Ralph hated the idea back then as well. It was Erie County not Ralph that received the $1 Million for the naming rights.

[TMu11]

I really hope they don't move it North into Niagara County. I couldnt stand the traffic on game days. I finally get the hell away from the stadium and they move it? I'd be pissed.

On the other hand, It was great being able to walk to the games.

[Turf]

The stadium ideally belongs in the Pembroke area right off the Thruway which would have to expanded to 3 lanes in the area, and the team would be the Western New York Bills, aka Boston to New England Patriots. Centralizing the team in this manner and with Rochester, Buffalo, and Syracuse could even bring Major League baseball to the area if it were a rettractable roof. It's a very viable option and the only one that makes any sense.

[OpIv37]

The stadium ideally belongs in the Pembroke area right off the Thruway which would have to expanded to 3 lanes in the area, and the team would be the Western New York Bills, aka Boston to New England Patriots. Centralizing the team in this manner and with Rochester, Buffalo, and Syracuse could even bring Major League baseball to the area if it were a rettractable roof. It's a very viable option and the only one that makes any sense.

I'm all for regionalizing the franchise. In fact, the franchise already depends on support from the entire region and it would only help them to embrace it. But the Western New York Bills? The name is far too long, and it doesn't make any sense. Move the stadium east to help regionalize? Fine, but keep the name as "Buffalo Bills". The Jets and Giants play in NJ, the Redskins play in MD- the Bills can play in Pembroke and still be the Buffalo Bills.

[Turf]

I'm all for regionalizing the franchise. In fact, the franchise already depends on support from the entire region and it would only help them to embrace it. But the Western New York Bills? The name is far too long, and it doesn't make any sense. Move the stadium east to help regionalize? Fine, but keep the name as "Buffalo Bills". The Jets and Giants play in NJ, the Redskins play in MD- the Bills can play in Pembroke and still be the Buffalo Bills.


OK, I can live with that.

[PromoTheRobot]

The stadium ideally belongs in the Pembroke area right off the Thruway which would have to expanded to 3 lanes in the area, and the team would be the Western New York Bills, aka Boston to New England Patriots. Centralizing the team in this manner and with Rochester, Buffalo, and Syracuse could even bring Major League baseball to the area if it were a rettractable roof. It's a very viable option and the only one that makes any sense.

Putting a stadium in what is basically the middle of nowhere won't attract an MLB franchise. You have 81 games and most people can't drive 45mins to an hour each way on a weeknight. Besides MLB in WNY would never happen. We can barely afford the Bills and Sabres.

PTR

[trapezeus]

i hate the idea of having a baseball team. no one really loves baseball the way they love football and hockey in buffalo.

Plus, minor league baseball is awesome. for the price, and quality of play with Pilot field still being in good repair is a good time.

[better days]

i hate the idea of having a baseball team. no one really loves baseball the way they love football and hockey in buffalo.

Plus, minor league baseball is awesome. for the price, and quality of play with Pilot field still being in good repair is a good time.

I agree, minor league baseball is awesome. You know the players are giving their all & the price is right.

[Ground Chuck]

Lackawanna is the answer. Build it where the steel plant used to be. There are acres and acres of nothing. Build a complex like Arizona has. It would be sweet

[YardRat]

One of the smartest things Bob Rich ever did was back out of the running for a MLB team.

[PromoTheRobot]

Lackawanna is the answer. Build it where the steel plant used to be. There are acres and acres of nothing. Build a complex like Arizona has. It would be sweet
Yeah, if all your looking for is a big empty space then the old Beth Steel site is fine...except that is heavily polluted and would cost tens if not hundreds of millions to clean up...and being on the lake means on cold windy days it will be that much colder and windier. Like RWS isn't bad enough. Oh, and forget about how the weather is such a huge advantage for the Bills. We play even worse in it...and finally the fact there is nothing there: no bars, restaurants, hotels, or attractions. Which for some people is just fine, I guess.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

One of the smartest things Bob Rich ever did was back out of the running for a MLB team.

A friend of mine in the know thinks Bob Rich pulled one over on Buffalo there. He never intended to own an MLB team. He knew he could never afford it from the get go. Plus, so I'm told, MLB came to Rich and begged him to buy the Expos. He could have had them for $120M and turned it down.

PTR

[Ground Chuck]

Yeah, if all your looking for is a big empty space then the old Beth Steel site is fine...except that is heavily polluted and would cost tens if not hundreds of millions to clean up...and being on the lake means on cold windy days it will be that much colder and windier. Like RWS isn't bad enough. Oh, and forget about how the weather is such a huge advantage for the Bills. We play even worse in it...and finally the fact there is nothing there: no bars, restaurants, hotels, or attractions. Which for some people is just fine, I guess.

PTR

What else could they do with this land? Plant soybeans?

[The last buffalo fan]

Promo, are you an OpI relative?

[tampabay25690]

Build it downtown, the spin off business will surprise you, the city will begin to show life again...As for the traffic, there is none in Buffalo..I can go to Bank of America stadium in Charlotte and be home in twenty minutes, there are so many ways to go, and thats not even using the interstates. I will admit the tailgate experience is so much more lame here, but so are the fans, they are not harden fans....The only time the tailgating is good is when BUF or PIT come to town.....

Bank oF America stadium is a terrible example....
Beautiful stadium though....
I was their last year and the TAILGATTING was absolutely TERRIBLE.....
Im not big in downtown stadiums for football just because of that fact. That leaves clustures of parking lots all over and fans are spread out all over the place.
Ralph Wilson is an awesome experience and thats why we luv our Bills so much.....I think we would all be pissed if it was downtown but the businesses would LUV it......

[tampabay25690]

are convention centers really forward looking? I don't know. but the way technology is changing for meetings and such, and the cost cutting of preventing a lot of conventions and industry gatherings, there is a smaller pool of groups doing soires'. And when they do, they do vegas and warm weather areas.

Buffalo might have to actually follow a new path in building itself and not follow an outdated model.

That's funny you might mention that.
My wife works in the tourism business and worked in Buffalo for 5 years before moving to Tampa Bay.
She works for the Convention and Visitor's Bureau of Tampa Bay.
Orlando is the hottest spot along with Las Vegas for meetings and conventions.
The 1 good thing that Buffalo had was pretty decent weather from May to September where it is HOT as hell in places like Orlando, Tampa, and Las Vegas...

But the huge fault Buffalo had was meeting space, hotels and things for groups to do in spare time. You can only see Niagara Falls so many times......
A new convention center on the water would bring groups and lots of money but I know things in buffalo move in a snails pace......

[tampabay25690]

Putting a stadium in what is basically the middle of nowhere won't attract an MLB franchise. You have 81 games and most people can't drive 45mins to an hour each way on a weeknight. Besides MLB in WNY would never happen. We can barely afford the Bills and Sabres.

PTR

I agree 100% MLB will never happen in Buffalo ever....
Way to many games to support

[PromoTheRobot]

What else could they do with this land? Plant soybeans?
Waterfront is always valuable. Assuming they ever clean the toxic remains from the property it would make a nice park or beach. But I would hate to be there from November through March when the icy winds are howling.

Right now there is a wind farm. That's probably the best use of that land for now.

PTR

[Ground Chuck]

A stadium would be the use that would require the least amount of remediation. You know what it would take to make that place a "beach"? When I was a kid, Lake Erie was orange by the steel plant.