Pat Kirwan: Even the Lions are better than the Bills

[MidnightVoice]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8184857e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Buffalo Bills: I will get some negative comments about the Lions being ranked ahead of the Bills, but Buffalo has many problems. Who is the QB? Who blocks the edges in the protection schemes? Who replaces the production WR Terrell Owens delivered last year? How does a defense that gave up 156.3 yards per game on the ground get better when the front office took a running back in the first round of the draft and converted to a 3-4 scheme?

St. Louis Rams: The Rams made the right decision taking quarterback Sam Bradford in the first round, but it also means the rebuild is going to take time. No one wants to hear it, but Rams fans still have to be patient.

[Pinkerton Security]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8184857e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Buffalo Bills: I will get some negative comments about the Lions being ranked ahead of the Bills, but Buffalo has many problems. Who is the QB? Who blocks the edges in the protection schemes? Who replaces the production WR Terrell Owens delivered last year? How does a defense that gave up 156.3 yards per game on the ground get better when the front office took a running back in the first round of the draft and converted to a 3-4 scheme?

St. Louis Rams: The Rams made the right decision taking quarterback Sam Bradford in the first round, but it also means the rebuild is going to take time. No one wants to hear it, but Rams fans still have to be patient.

They may well have more wins than us, idk. I have a bet that we beat the Lions when we play them so I hope we kick their ass haha

[The King]

Sure its all good on paper. But lets hope having a coaching staff that might have a clue plays into this teams production.

[Jaybird]

How does he know who is better?? we haven't played a game yet!

[Pinkerton Security]

heres the other thing...can our run defense get worse? I mean i know it can, but I have a feeling that with the guys we have with their hands on the ground, its gonna allow our LBs to make more tackles and it could improve marginally.

[DesertFox24]

I agree with Jaybird how the heck does anyone know who will do what.

We as bills fans really should not get all bent out of shape over this crap, everyone is going to pick our team to suck till the players and coaches change that perception on Sundays.

In the meantime I am just going to sit back, relax, and wait for the preseason games to see how our young players look.

Then hope we win 7 games this year.

[Jan Reimers]

I love the fact that so many of the pundits - as well as many fans - are totally writing us off.

It will make it that much sweeter when we sneak up on the other teams and clobber them with ChanBall.

[justasportsfan]

I love the fact that so many of the pundits - as well as many fans - are totally writing us off.

It will make it that much sweeter when we sneak up on the other teams and clobber them with ChanBall.

It's better to set your expectations low. Our team is a mess. I can only hope Gailey hired the right assistants that can rebuild faster than usual.

[Jan Reimers]

It's better to set your expectations low. Our team is a mess. I can only hope Gailey hired the right assistants that can rebuild faster than usual.
Oh, I agree justa. But I can't do it, at least not in the offseason. I'll probably be a screaming lunatic a couple of games into the season.

[justasportsfan]

Oh, I agree justa. But I can't do it, at least not in the offseason. I'll probably be a screaming lunatic a couple of games into the season.

I think our team is the worst in the league right now. But unlike others, I don't dwell on it. Even at our worse I can find ways to enjoy watching the bills.

[trapezeus]

on paper, with no emotion tied into it, it is hard to see where the bills will be good. There a ton of question marks.

1. new defense...it could be worse, it could be better.
2. new OC - could be worse, but unlikely.

Those are two huge topics and there are a lot of questions at each position. I think all Kirwan is saying is that the lions have spent a year developing that new core and had mixed results. they at least know what they need to do to get better.

The bills, on the other hand, will be trying this all from scratch in September. We'll see if it works, but often times new regimes need some time. i think as fans, we know how god awful jauron was and even if gailey is a failure, he won't be worse than jauron. even if the record is worse this year, i think he commits to better players and forces the weak ones out. no more watching SS play LB because he likes them.

[Ed]

I understand that with our lack of upgrades at QB and OT we still don't look like a playoff team, but I don't understand why people think we'll be so much worse then last year. Our current qb's and OT's may not be the answer for us long term, but it's highly unlikely that their play is going to get worse.

I think we can all agree that our coaching was terrible last year, so even if we had the same players and just a little bit more competent coaching, I don't see how we're suddenly the worst team in the league.

If we have so many problems, how did we win 6 games last year, and 7 three years in a row before that?

[ParanoidAndroid]

The offense will be better by default, but it won't be enough to make up for the defense taking a step back because of the scheme switch and lack of depth.

[justasportsfan]

I understand that with our lack of upgrades at QB and OT we still don't look like a playoff team, but I don't understand why people think we'll be so much worse then last year. Our current qb's and OT's may not be the answer for us long term, but it's highly unlikely that their play is going to get worse.

I think we can all agree that our coaching was terrible last year, so even if we had the same players and just a little bit more competent coaching, I don't see how we're suddenly the worst team in the league.

If we have so many problems, how did we win 6 games last year, and 7 three years in a row before that?


I think we're bad simply because everyone else got better . Our success will depend on how soon our coaches can develop our players to make the tranisitions.

What scares me is that even though our assistant coaches have had success at the level they were in whether it was college or CFL, we on't know how they will do in the NFL.

[k-oneputt]

I actually think the defense is going to be better.

Now the offense, with the coaching alone has to improve some.

The issue before the draft; we need a left tackle, a qb, and even a right tackle. After the draft we still need a LT, QB, and a RT.

[BillsWin]

We will win more games than most media members expect. But, that's not saying much.

[TheBrownBear]

I don't see how were that much worse than last season. Almost any coach has to be an upgrade from Jauron.

The quarterback situation is the same (which is horrible) but it hasn't gotten worse so I'm not sure why all the pundits dwell on this like its some new huge hole. I mean we haven't had a decent quarterback behind center for most of the past decade, but we still almost always managed to win six or seven games. I do think we'll miss Owens, but Spiller adds a new dimension as a big-play threat in the dump-off passing game, and the young o-line should continue to improve with experience.

Assuming that AS returns, the defense will actually be as good - personnel wise - as its been in quite some time. Admittedly, the transition to the 3-4 is a huge question mark, but we've brought in some young guys who should make the move a lot smoother than it otherwise would have. And we have a potential big-time player returning in McKelvin.

Yes, we're not a good team, a playoff quality team. We probably won't win 8 games. But I just don't see how, if Jauron could consistently win 6-7 games with these guys that Gailey can't achieve a similar level of mediocrity. And the argument that our division foes have gotten so much better should be moot, since we've only gone 2-10 against them in the past two years anyway.

[Griff]

who replaces TO? Anybody who can actually catch

[Buckets]

who replaces TO? Anybody who can actually catch
Sombody finally picked up on that. Kirwin sure knows our situation!!!!

[BillsWin]

who replaces TO? Anybody who can actually catch

I'm hoping that Hardy, who was personally tutored by Owens, will show up for once. With all his injuries he is essentially a rookie, but should have no excuses this year.

I also wouldn't sleep on Easley. I believe he is a great player who could start for us. Maybe not for 5 games, 8 games, or a whole season but he has talent. And from everything Chris Brown has been writing he is turning heads and showcasing talent.

I'd wait and see on our wide receivers. I don't think there is a lack of talent, I think there is youth and lack of experience.

Who knows, maybe one of the above players can break out this year in a new scheme. I also like Steve Johnson, though not as much as his ravenous fan base.

[BertSquirtgum]

t.o. had butter hands last year. the article writer is a god dammed fool.

[billz83]

I hope Gailey and the rest work out for this team..they cant possibly prepare our team worse then Jauron..and considering we're worse then everyone except the rams we can only move up and get better right?! haha

[OpIv37]

t.o. had butter hands last year. the article writer is a god dammed fool.

Was he really that far off on the TO thing? Think about it- TO was very average last year, but who do we have on the roster that has even proven they can put up the mediocre numbers that he had? No one.

This roster is a ****ing disaster. Meanwhile, the Lions have some young players who were starting to come into their own last year and some decent FA acquisitions. It really isn't that much of a stretch to say the Lions are better than the Bills at this point. In fact, Kirwan isn't the only one saying it and some have been saying it for months.

[trapezeus]

I think we're bad simply because everyone else got better . Our success will depend on how soon our coaches can develop our players to make the tranisitions.

What scares me is that even though our assistant coaches have had success at the level they were in whether it was college or CFL, we on't know how they will do in the NFL.

on top of that point, i think, our players need to adjust to whatever it is they are learning. some of these guys have 4 years of jauron habits and to think 53 men will break those habits and jump on board to a harder work environment is overly positive.

The team can turn this around quickly by drafting well and sticking to their plan.

[Griff]

Was he really that far off on the TO thing? Think about it- TO was very average last year, but who do we have on the roster that has even proven they can put up the mediocre numbers that he had? No one.

This roster is a ****ing disaster. Meanwhile, the Lions have some young players who were starting to come into their own last year and some decent FA acquisitions. It really isn't that much of a stretch to say the Lions are better than the Bills at this point. In fact, Kirwan isn't the only one saying it and some have been saying it for months.

a disaster? far from it, we have like a billion young OLBers, a possibly fantastic backfield, a good inside OL, and one of the best, if not the best secondary in the league based on the fact we shut down QBs all year last year.

[OpIv37]

a disaster? far from it, we have like a billion young OLBers, a possibly fantastic backfield, a good inside OL, and one of the best, if not the best secondary in the league based on the fact we shut down QBs all year last year.

None of those young LB's are proven in the 3-4. NONE. We have an above average backfield. We have an above average secondary but no unit that includes Donte Whitner will EVER be considered "fantastic." And we didn't "shut down" QB's last year. Other teams were too busy running the ball down our throats to bother passing. Your assumption is based on skewed statistics.

As far as the good inside OL, Levitre and Wood are greatly overrated by this board. They're both decent and they both show some promise, but people got enamored by them because they played as rookies and didn't completely suck. And Wood is injured. And Hangartner is below average. He never gets to the 2nd level in run blocking and can't handle 3-4 NT's.

Our T's are terrible, our QB's are terrible, our WR's outside Evans are completely unproven, we have no proven NT's and only one proven 3-4 DE on the roster.

Talent-wise, this team is bottom 5 in the NFL, and you could make a strong argument that they're the worst.

[Bill Cody]

If we have so many problems, how did we win 6 games last year, and 7 three years in a row before that?

If you look at the league year in and year out the easiest place to land is 6-7 wins. You really have to completely blow to win a whole less and you have to be pretty solid to win a whole lot more.

The good teams have a list of 5-6 impact players. Who are our impact players?

On the other hand we've generally played hard, had good special teams and some weeks we get the bounces our way, that's kept us out of Lionsville. But until we draft some impact guys, and it's possible we have and don't know it for sure yet, we're in that uncomfortable netherworld: too good to win 3 games, too many holes to win 9.

[Griff]

If you look at the league year in and year out the easiest place to land is 6-7 wins. You really have to completely blow to win a whole less and you have to be pretty solid to win a whole lot more.

The good teams have a list of 5-6 impact players. Who are our impact players?

On the other hand we've generally played hard, had good special teams and some weeks we get the bounces our way, that's kept us out of Lionsville. But until we draft some impact guys, and it's possible we have and don't know it for sure yet, we're in that uncomfortable netherworld: too good to win 3 games, too many holes to win 9.

Impact guys? Like Spiller or Byrd?

[BertSquirtgum]

Was he really that far off on the TO thing? Think about it- TO was very average last year, but who do we have on the roster that has even proven they can put up the mediocre numbers that he had? No one.

This roster is a ****ing disaster. Meanwhile, the Lions have some young players who were starting to come into their own last year and some decent FA acquisitions. It really isn't that much of a stretch to say the Lions are better than the Bills at this point. In fact, Kirwan isn't the only one saying it and some have been saying it for months.
the numbers he had were all in the last few garbage games of the season when nothing mattered. dolphins at home and the colts game were two i can think of off the top of my head. when games actually mattered in the first half of the season, he played like ****. that's why he is still un-signed.

[YardRat]

We'll kick Detroits ass...bank on it.

[Dr. Lecter]

None of those young LB's are proven in the 3-4. NONE. We have an above average backfield. We have an above average secondary but no unit that includes Donte Whitner will EVER be considered "fantastic." And we didn't "shut down" QB's last year. Other teams were too busy running the ball down our throats to bother passing. Your assumption is based on skewed statistics.

As far as the good inside OL, Levitre and Wood are greatly overrated by this board. They're both decent and they both show some promise, but people got enamored by them because they played as rookies and didn't completely suck. And Wood is injured. And Hangartner is below average. He never gets to the 2nd level in run blocking and can't handle 3-4 NT's.

Our T's are terrible, our QB's are terrible, our WR's outside Evans are completely unproven, we have no proven NT's and only one proven 3-4 DE on the roster.

Talent-wise, this team is bottom 5 in the NFL, and you could make a strong argument that they're the worst.

I agree with much of what you said, but you are wrong on Levitre and Wood. Both, especially Wood, were damn solid last year, especially considering they were rookies.

The Bills RBs averaged 4.4 yards a rush last year. That was 8th in the NFL. They did it somehow and it sure as hell was not the blocking at OT.

Don't be the guy that ignores the stats that find the rare good sign. You bash others for ignoring the bad stats.

[psubills62]

None of those young LB's are proven in the 3-4. NONE. We have an above average backfield. We have an above average secondary but no unit that includes Donte Whitner will EVER be considered "fantastic." And we didn't "shut down" QB's last year. Other teams were too busy running the ball down our throats to bother passing. Your assumption is based on skewed statistics.

I'd argue that our pass D was legitimately very good, not just because other teams ran a lot on us.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

If you look at the statistics, we were 2nd in the league in YPG, YPA, INT's, INT's per attempt, QB rating against, T-2nd in TD's allowed, 3rd in completion %, passing 1st downs allowed, T-3rd in first down percentage, and 20+ yard completions allowed. The only relevant categories that we were rated worse than 3rd were 40+ completions allowed (ranked 5th), and sacks (ranked T-18th). However, our sacks actually increased from 2008 by 33%.

Oh, and to top it all off, we were 20th in terms of passing attempts against our D. Which means we were right in the middle of the pack in terms of teams passing against us (12 other teams were passed on less than us).

In conclusion, while teams obviously did run on us a lot (2nd most rush attempts against in the league), our pass D was not great for lack of data. There were plenty of passes thrown against us, and despite McKelvin's injury, we ended up top 5 in the league easily. Our secondary is legitimately strong no matter how you look at it.

[Buffalogic]

Even Mortensen is better than Kirwan!

See I can play that game too!

[jamze132]

How does he know who is better?? we haven't played a game yet!
So you won't say that the Saints, Colts, and Patriots are better than us either then.

[Griff]

None of those young LB's are proven in the 3-4. NONE. We have an above average backfield. We have an above average secondary but no unit that includes Donte Whitner will EVER be considered "fantastic." And we didn't "shut down" QB's last year. Other teams were too busy running the ball down our throats to bother passing. Your assumption is based on skewed statistics.

As far as the good inside OL, Levitre and Wood are greatly overrated by this board. They're both decent and they both show some promise, but people got enamored by them because they played as rookies and didn't completely suck. And Wood is injured. And Hangartner is below average. He never gets to the 2nd level in run blocking and can't handle 3-4 NT's.

Our T's are terrible, our QB's are terrible, our WR's outside Evans are completely unproven, we have no proven NT's and only one proven 3-4 DE on the roster.

Talent-wise, this team is bottom 5 in the NFL, and you could make a strong argument that they're the worst.

Bottom 5 and yet they still finished 9th overall.

Everyone was unproven at one point btw.

[Bill Cody]

Impact guys? Like Spiller or Byrd?

We hope/expect Spiller is but that's a bit much to label him an impact player before he's taken a pro snap.

Byrd? Ok.

Pretty short list. Try doing this exercise with the top 5 or 6 teams. I have no idea why anyone would attempt to debate this point, weird.

[tat2dmike77]

I agree with Jaybird how the heck does anyone know who will do what.

We as bills fans really should not get all bent out of shape over this crap, everyone is going to pick our team to suck till the players and coaches change that perception on Sundays.

In the meantime I am just going to sit back, relax, and wait for the preseason games to see how our young players look.

Then hope we win 7 games this year.

This crap is just like CFB rankings they mean nothing until about week 3 or 4.

[Griff]

We hope/expect Spiller is but that's a bit much to label him an impact player before he's taken a pro snap.

Byrd? Ok.

Pretty short list. Try doing this exercise with the top 5 or 6 teams. I have no idea why anyone would attempt to debate this point, weird.

except that I'm not arguing that the Bills are a top 5 or even top 10 team, just better than the Lions.

[Bill Cody]

except that I'm not arguing that the Bills are a top 5 or even top 10 team, just better than the Lions.

ok got it. You were responding to a post you didn't read. Not surprising.

[Griff]

ok got it. You were responding to a post you didn't read. Not surprising.

topic of conversation, look it up.

[SABURZFAN]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8184857e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Buffalo Bills: I will get some negative comments about the Lions being ranked ahead of the Bills, but Buffalo has many problems. Who is the QB? Who blocks the edges in the protection schemes? Who replaces the production WR Terrell Owens delivered last year? How does a defense that gave up 156.3 yards per game on the ground get better when the front office took a running back in the first round of the draft and converted to a 3-4 scheme?



it's kind of hard to dispute these comments.

[SABURZFAN]

I love the fact that so many of the pundits - as well as many fans - are totally writing us off.

It will make it that much sweeter when we sneak up on the other teams and clobber them with ChanBall.


i hope you're right but i don't see much overall improvement to this team. a veteran WR here, a serviceable LT there, and a couple of 1 year stopgaps on defense could make this team do that. of course, a lot will depend on QB play.