Destroying a Myth

[feldspar]

In the 6.25 games that Edwards played, Evans averaged 36.48 yards per game.

In the 7.75 games that Fitzpatrick played, Evans averaged 37.68 yards per game.

So Evans got an extra yard per game when Fitzy was in there. ONE single yard. Is that significant? BTW, I didn't count the Colts game, where Evans got 49 yards, because I figure the other team has to be trying to win the game in order for it to count...not that it would make much difference. Also, Trent got hurt in the Jets game, thus the decimals in my calculations.

Evans' TDs or number of catches didn't suffer under Trent when compared to Fitzpatrick, either.

People assume these things, but they aren't true.

Same goes for T.O....

T.O.'s numbers under ole Fitzy:

Carolina: 27 yards
Houston: 39 yards
Miami: 96 yards
NY Jets: 31 yards
Kansas City: 15 yards
New England: 20 yards
Colts' scrubs: 65 yards
In three quarters against the Jets: 7 yards

Yeah, Fitz and Owens connected on a 98-yarder in the Jax game, inflating the numbers a lot, but Owens also dropped a pass right in the bread-basket that should have went for about 80 yards from Trent.

Besides the overinflated Jacksonville numbers, here how it all spans out:

Fitzpatrick to Owens: 38.71 yards per game
Edwards to Owens: 46.88 yards per game

This is taking under the consideration that Trent played a quarter of the Jets game, and Fitzpatrick played the other three quarters. I even included the Colts' scrubs numbers this time...don't worry, it helped Fitzy and T.O.'s numbers...

Include that Jacksonville game, and it doesn't really destroy my argument, but anybody that watched every game can see why I would do that. Include that game, particularly the one play, and Fitz would have completed about 10 more yards to T.O. than Trent per game, hardly enough to write home about.

If people want Fitzpatrick to start because he "throws to his WRs downfield more," forget that crap. It doesn't work, and Trent is liable to make the smarter throw IMO.

[Goobylal]

So...they both sucked. Great, get rid of one and take the bulk of the starting reps away from the other and give them to Brohm and Brown.

[BillsWin]

All you've proven is that Fitz lovers are just as irrational as Edwards fans.

Both suck.

Let's cut our losses, start Brohm and if he sucks as well, we get a high draft pick and pick "our guy".

[feldspar]

All you've proven is that Fitz lovers are just as irrational as Edwards fans.

Both suck.

Let's cut our losses, start Brohm and if he sucks as well, we get a high draft pick and pick "our guy".

No, you hear all this crap about how Fitz is more willing to go downfield, and a lot of people assume that the WRs were much more involved in the game under him. This is not true. We didn't see any more WR production with Fitzpatrick under Center. This is the point. I thought some people needed to hear it.

If you say "start Brohm" you are acting blindly. No reason to think that way. People say this on the basis that Brohm's name isn't Edwards or Fitzpatrick...nothing else at all.

[better days]

TO had a very long catch per game record going until he played with Trent. Trent could not get the ball to him even ONCE!!!! ENDING his RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[feldspar]

So...they both sucked. Great, get rid of one and take the bulk of the starting reps away from the other and give them to Brohm and Brown.

What about the line? You want to ruin another kid?

[feldspar]

TO had a very long catch per game record going until he played with Trent. Trent could not get the ball to him even ONCE!!!! ENDING his RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PNO6On7cK1M&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PNO6On7cK1M&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[better days]

The best reply you could come up with..........TO talking about Romo. That is because you know I am right. There was NO EXCUSE for Trent to end that record!! Trent SUCKS period.

[feldspar]

The best reply you could come up with..........TO talking about Romo. That is because you know I am right. There was NO EXCUSE for Trent to end that record!! Trent SUCKS period.

I'm going to feel sorry for a guy that made $6.5 million last year and was given the key to the city? After the way he made no difference here?

Remember how bad the Bills were last year, and then remember that this happened against the team that won the Super Bowl...then think twice before you blame Edwards alone for this. Finally, who really cares about T.O.'s streak?

If T.O. is so great, why is he not on a team heading into the middle of June?

[better days]

What about the line? You want to ruin another kid?

The OLine did not ruin Fitz, he came to Buffalo that way.

Still, a 98 YD TD to TO Buffalo RECORD trumps Trent ENDING a long held record that TO held.

[better days]

I'm going to feel sorry for a guy that made $6.5 million last year and was given the key to the city? After the way he made no difference here?

Remember how bad the Bills were last year, and then remember that this happened against the team that won the Super Bowl...then think twice before you blame Edwards alone for this. Finally, who really cares about T.O.'s streak?

If T.O. is so great, why is he not on a team heading into the middle of June?

I don't feel sorry for TO, I feel sorry for the fans having to endure Captain Checkdown game after game. And yes Edwards alone was responsible for ending that record.

The reason TO is not on a team is because he is old & wants TOO much money.

[feldspar]

The OLine did not ruin Fitz, he came to Buffalo that way.

Yeah it would be hard to ruin someone that wasn't too good in the first place.


Still, a 98 YD TD to TO Buffalo RECORD trumps Trent ENDING a long held record that TO held.

TO never held any such record that I understand. It was his own personal record, not a league record. I believe that Jerry Rice holds the record for most consecutive games with at least one reception...that's 274 straight games. Owens has only appeared in 205 games, so I doubt he is the guy with the record, even if he caught a pass in every game he appeared in, which he didn't.

Why do you care so much about this so-called record? He ended his own personal streak against the team that would eventually win the Super Bowl. I guess no part of it could be his fault, the o-line's, the Super Bowl winning team's game-plan or execution...or anything else for that matter. Just Trent's fault, right?

He didn't bobble a pass? He did.

Who really cares?

[Philagape]

There used to be a poster here who would often leave out the biggest plays to make an argument ... so much so that the tactic was named after him. Mockingly.

[ServoBillieves]

Didnt Trent lead us to a 5-0 record at one point? just asking.

[feldspar]

There used to be a poster here who would often leave out the biggest plays to make an argument ... so much so that the tactic was named after him. Mockingly.

That ain't me. Read the whole thing, sport.

[Philagape]

You want stats? Here are the most relevant ones:

The Bills offense scored more points per game under Fitz than Trent (16.0 to 13.3). That's not counting the Colts game, it divides the points in the Jets road game between QBs, and it does count two touchdown passes in Edwards' games that were thrown by Brian Moorman and Fred Jackson.
A big reason for this is Fitz's higher TD percentage (4.0 to 3.3). Owens caught 4 TDs from Fitz, and only one from Trent. Evans caught 4 TDs from Fitz, to two from Trent (one from Jackson).
Another significant factor was that Trent was sacked more times than Fitz despite 44 fewer attempts.
The biggest stat differences Trent had over Fitz were completion percentage and INT percentage. Those categories are a lot easier to win when the QB throws short a lot more.
Last year Trent's percentage of throws that went 10 yards or less in the air was a whopping 77 percent. Under Fitz that dropped to 61.7 percent.
Go ahead and forget the bombs if you want ... 32.2 percent of Fitz's passes were in the intermediate 10-30 range; only 14.7 for Trent! (And Fitz was more accurate in that range by six points!)
Fitz took more chances; that resulted in worse individual numbers, but better production on the scoreboard, which is all that matters.

If I were to go by all that, I'd pick Fitz if there was a game tomorrow. However, I don't like to declare a winner based on stats; someone could do that without watching a single minute. I try to go by the intangibles, and that's where Fitz was even more superior.

[Eventually]

You want stats? Here are the most relevant ones:

The Bills offense scored more points per game under Fitz than Trent (16.0 to 13.3). That's not counting the Colts game, it divides the points in the Jets road game between QBs, and it does count two touchdown passes in Edwards' games that were thrown by Brian Moorman and Fred Jackson.
A big reason for this is Fitz's higher TD percentage (4.0 to 3.3). Owens caught 4 TDs from Fitz, and only one from Trent. Evans caught 4 TDs from Fitz, to two from Trent (one from Jackson).
Another significant factor was that Trent was sacked more times than Fitz despite 44 fewer attempts.
The biggest stat differences Trent had over Fitz were completion percentage and INT percentage. Those categories are a lot easier to win when the QB throws short a lot more.
Last year Trent's percentage of throws that went 10 yards or less in the air was a whopping 77 percent. Under Fitz that dropped to 61.7 percent.
Go ahead and forget the bombs if you want ... 32.2 percent of Fitz's passes were in the intermediate 10-30 range; only 14.7 for Trent! (And Fitz was more accurate in that range by six points!)
Fitz took more chances; that resulted in worse individual numbers, but better production on the scoreboard, which is all that matters.

If I were to go by all that, I'd pick Fitz if there was a game tomorrow. However, I don't like to declare a winner based on stats; someone could do that without watching a single minute. I try to go by the intangibles, and that's where Fitz was even more superior.

As fun as this thread was, this here is as good a thread ender as you'll find.

[Joe Fo Sho]

No, you hear all this crap about how Fitz is more willing to go downfield, and a lot of people assume that the WRs were much more involved in the game under him. This is not true. We didn't see any more WR production with Fitzpatrick under Center. This is the point. I thought some people needed to hear it.

If you say "start Brohm" you are acting blindly. No reason to think that way. People say this on the basis that Brohm's name isn't Edwards or Fitzpatrick...nothing else at all.

Those stats do not disprove the fact that Fitz is more willing to throw the ball downfield... It just shows that his attempts downfield were unsuccessful.

F*** Edwards, he's THE MOST BORING Quarterback I've ever seen wear a Bills uniform.

[YardRat]

Neither one will last too long under Gailey if they play the same as they did last season.

[billz83]

they are both absolute GARBAGE! i cant beleive our team thinks we can go into an NFL season with these 2 clowns..this is gonna be a long season and we have no oline so it just makes them look even worse..captain checkdown better play good this year since we got a better coach then jauron..at least until next year when we find his replacement.

[acehole]

Seems you havent been around this board that long....you see stats don't make a difference here. It is all how you feel about somthing. The truth be dammed. So allthough nice well thought out post...your facts won't make a difference to some.




In the 6.25 games that Edwards played, Evans averaged 36.48 yards per game.

In the 7.75 games that Fitzpatrick played, Evans averaged 37.68 yards per game.

So Evans got an extra yard per game when Fitzy was in there. ONE single yard. Is that significant? BTW, I didn't count the Colts game, where Evans got 49 yards, because I figure the other team has to be trying to win the game in order for it to count...not that it would make much difference. Also, Trent got hurt in the Jets game, thus the decimals in my calculations.

Evans' TDs or number of catches didn't suffer under Trent when compared to Fitzpatrick, either.

People assume these things, but they aren't true.

Same goes for T.O....

T.O.'s numbers under ole Fitzy:

Carolina: 27 yards
Houston: 39 yards
Miami: 96 yards
NY Jets: 31 yards
Kansas City: 15 yards
New England: 20 yards
Colts' scrubs: 65 yards
In three quarters against the Jets: 7 yards

Yeah, Fitz and Owens connected on a 98-yarder in the Jax game, inflating the numbers a lot, but Owens also dropped a pass right in the bread-basket that should have went for about 80 yards from Trent.

Besides the overinflated Jacksonville numbers, here how it all spans out:

Fitzpatrick to Owens: 38.71 yards per game
Edwards to Owens: 46.88 yards per game

This is taking under the consideration that Trent played a quarter of the Jets game, and Fitzpatrick played the other three quarters. I even included the Colts' scrubs numbers this time...don't worry, it helped Fitzy and T.O.'s numbers...

Include that Jacksonville game, and it doesn't really destroy my argument, but anybody that watched every game can see why I would do that. Include that game, particularly the one play, and Fitz would have completed about 10 more yards to T.O. than Trent per game, hardly enough to write home about.

If people want Fitzpatrick to start because he "throws to his WRs downfield more," forget that crap. It doesn't work, and Trent is liable to make the smarter throw IMO.

[TacklingDummy]

Peyton Manning has made many WR and O-linemen look good.

WR/OL is not the problem, QB is. They both suck.

[mightysimi]

I'm going to feel sorry for a guy that made $6.5 million last year and was given the key to the city? After the way he made no difference here?

Remember how bad the Bills were last year, and then remember that this happened against the team that won the Super Bowl...then think twice before you blame Edwards alone for this. Finally, who really cares about T.O.'s streak?

If T.O. is so great, why is he not on a team heading into the middle of June?

The Bills ended Jerry Rice's longer streak so we are even.

[djjimkelly]

my backing is behind brohm. fully because i know trent sucks and i know fitz sucks.

simple brohm was a better college qb then the other 2 has a better frame and arm.

go brohm.

and if he sucks too maybe we go 2-14 and draft andrew luck

[feldspar]

You want stats? Here are the most relevant ones:

The Bills offense scored more points per game under Fitz than Trent (16.0 to 13.3). That's not counting the Colts game, it divides the points in the Jets road game between QBs, and it does count two touchdown passes in Edwards' games that were thrown by Brian Moorman and Fred Jackson.
A big reason for this is Fitz's higher TD percentage (4.0 to 3.3). Owens caught 4 TDs from Fitz, and only one from Trent. Evans caught 4 TDs from Fitz, to two from Trent (one from Jackson).
Another significant factor was that Trent was sacked more times than Fitz despite 44 fewer attempts.
The biggest stat differences Trent had over Fitz were completion percentage and INT percentage. Those categories are a lot easier to win when the QB throws short a lot more.
Last year Trent's percentage of throws that went 10 yards or less in the air was a whopping 77 percent. Under Fitz that dropped to 61.7 percent.
Go ahead and forget the bombs if you want ... 32.2 percent of Fitz's passes were in the intermediate 10-30 range; only 14.7 for Trent! (And Fitz was more accurate in that range by six points!)
Fitz took more chances; that resulted in worse individual numbers, but better production on the scoreboard, which is all that matters.

If I were to go by all that, I'd pick Fitz if there was a game tomorrow. However, I don't like to declare a winner based on stats; someone could do that without watching a single minute. I try to go by the intangibles, and that's where Fitz was even more superior.

You have some valid points in there, although you are changing the subject of the thread. You did make me chuckle when you talked about Fitz's superior intangibles. And you are right, you can definitely play games with stats to suit your premise. For example, if scoring points is all that matters, then Freddie Jackson is pretty bad at running the ball because he only had 2 rushing TDs all year (both in the same game), and 35% of his yards were in 2 games, one against the worst run defense in the league and the other against the Colts' scrubs.

Also, when the defense plays better, which they did under Fitz, that definitely helps. I don't think the biggest stat is points, but the win/lose record. As far as I'm concerned Fitz would have been 1-8 with the Bills last year had the defense not bailed him out over and over, along with the Colts not showing up. There are so many other things you could bring up to suit your purpose, as can I. But it's tired and old. IMO, Trent is just better than Fitz. There is no stat that will convince me otherwise.

[better days]

Seems you havent been around this board that long....you see stats don't make a difference here. It is all how you feel about somthing. The truth be dammed. So allthough nice well thought out post...your facts won't make a difference to some.

Stats don't make a difference here because most people on this board are smart enough to know that stats are NOT FACTS!

Stats can be manipulated to support any argument from either side as evidenced by this thread.

Feldspar MANIPULATED the stats he provided by leaving out stats that would have weakened his argument. In doing so he claimed the other team was not trying to win. PLEASE give me a break. Yes the Colts sat a number of players, but every Colt that played that day was trying to win.

[feldspar]

Stats don't make a difference here because most people on this board are smart enough to know that stats are NOT FACTS!

Stats can be manipulated to support any argument from either side as evidenced by this thread.

Feldspar MANIPULATED the stats he provided by leaving out stats that would have weakened his argument. In doing so he claimed the other team was not trying to win. PLEASE give me a break. Yes the Colts sat a number of players, but every Colt that played that day was trying to win.

If the Colts were trying to win, their starters would have been out there the whole game. C'mon, when you play Painter over a healthy Manning, you aren't trying to win the game. Were their scrubs trying to win? Sure, but they were scrubs. Now you are just splitting hairs.

Anyway, read the post above yours. I already covered what you said.

[better days]

You have some valid points in there, although you are changing the subject of the thread. You did make me chuckle when you talked about Fitz's superior intangibles. And you are right, you can definitely play games with stats to suit your premise. For example, if scoring points is all that matters, then Freddie Jackson is pretty bad at running the ball because he only had 2 rushing TDs all year (both in the same game), and 35% of his yards were in 2 games, one against the worst run defense in the league and the other against the Colts' scrubs.

Also, when the defense plays better, which they did under Fitz, that definitely helps. I don't think the biggest stat is points, but the win/lose record. As far as I'm concerned Fitz would have been 1-8 with the Bills last year had the defense not bailed him out over and over, along with the Colts not showing up. There are so many other things you could bring up to suit your purpose, as can I. But it's tired and old. IMO, Trent is just better than Fitz. There is no stat that will convince me otherwise.

Trent has shown NOTHING yet to prove he is better than Fitz. He is better than Fitz in your opinion only & nothing will change that. That is fine, we are all allowed our own opinions.

My opinion is I am HAPPY Dick is no longer the Head Coach of the Bills & if Trent enters the season as the starter, he will have earned it.

[feldspar]

Trent has shown NOTHING yet to prove he is better than Fitz. He is better than Fitz in your opinion only & nothing will change that. That is fine, we are all allowed our own opinions.

My opinion is I am HAPPY Dick is no longer the Head Coach of the Bills & if Trent enters the season as the starter, he will have earned it.

The only difference between you and me is that I'm right.

[better days]

If the Colts were trying to win, their starters would have been out there the whole game. C'mon, when you play Painter over a healthy Manning, you aren't trying to win the game. Were their scrubs trying to win? Sure, but they were scrubs. Now you are just splitting hairs.

Anyway, read the post above yours. I already covered what you said.

I read your post & if anyone manipulated the stats, it was you. The word IF is a very big word for only having two letters in it. Maybe the Bills defense played better for Fitz because they were inspired by his play & thought if they played well, the team had a chance to win.

The fact the Colts sat their starters does not mean that the Colts did not want to win. I remember the Steelers doing the same thing a couple years ago & they did win.

[better days]

The only difference between you and me is that I'm right.

Nothing would make me happier than you being right, & Trent leading the Bills to the playoffs.

I am not going to put any money on that though.

[Typ0]

One thing TE has going for him is we saw a lot of consistency. Granted, we would like to have seen some different things and better results but he moved the ball. The team couldn't score in the Red Zone. TE has more upside than RF--yeah that's just an opinion. Unfortunately, TE lost his confidence at some point and became a rag doll. It remains to be seen if he'll recover from that. Probably not.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Peyton Manning has made many WR and O-linemen look good.
Or was it the other way around? Marvin Harrison wasn't exactly a lousy receiver.

[better days]

Or was it the other way around? Marvin Harrison wasn't exactly a lousy receiver.

He wasn't a lousy receiver because he had Payton Manning throwing him the ball. If he had Trent throwing him the ball he would not have looked as good as Evans.

[Philagape]

For example, if scoring points is all that matters, then Freddie Jackson is pretty bad at running the ball because he only had 2 rushing TDs all year (both in the same game), and 35% of his yards were in 2 games, one against the worst run defense in the league and the other against the Colts' scrubs.

Perhaps that's why they drafted a playmaking RB with their first pick.

[HHURRICANE]

In the 6.25 games that Edwards played, Evans averaged 36.48 yards per game.

In the 7.75 games that Fitzpatrick played, Evans averaged 37.68 yards per game.

So Evans got an extra yard per game when Fitzy was in there. ONE single yard. Is that significant? BTW, I didn't count the Colts game, where Evans got 49 yards, because I figure the other team has to be trying to win the game in order for it to count...not that it would make much difference. Also, Trent got hurt in the Jets game, thus the decimals in my calculations.

Evans' TDs or number of catches didn't suffer under Trent when compared to Fitzpatrick, either.

People assume these things, but they aren't true.

Same goes for T.O....

T.O.'s numbers under ole Fitzy:

Carolina: 27 yards
Houston: 39 yards
Miami: 96 yards
NY Jets: 31 yards
Kansas City: 15 yards
New England: 20 yards
Colts' scrubs: 65 yards
In three quarters against the Jets: 7 yards

Yeah, Fitz and Owens connected on a 98-yarder in the Jax game, inflating the numbers a lot, but Owens also dropped a pass right in the bread-basket that should have went for about 80 yards from Trent.

Besides the overinflated Jacksonville numbers, here how it all spans out:

Fitzpatrick to Owens: 38.71 yards per game
Edwards to Owens: 46.88 yards per game

This is taking under the consideration that Trent played a quarter of the Jets game, and Fitzpatrick played the other three quarters. I even included the Colts' scrubs numbers this time...don't worry, it helped Fitzy and T.O.'s numbers...

Include that Jacksonville game, and it doesn't really destroy my argument, but anybody that watched every game can see why I would do that. Include that game, particularly the one play, and Fitz would have completed about 10 more yards to T.O. than Trent per game, hardly enough to write home about.

If people want Fitzpatrick to start because he "throws to his WRs downfield more," forget that crap. It doesn't work, and Trent is liable to make the smarter throw IMO.

Great post because it uses logic.

I think Edwards has the heart of a Squirel but he is still the best QB on the team. If Gailey can get him to play with any shred of confidence that he'll be by far our best option.

[casdhf]

I think Fitz threw the ball down the field more, but few were completed.

[feldspar]

I read your post & if anyone manipulated the stats, it was you. The word IF is a very big word for only having two letters in it. Maybe the Bills defense played better for Fitz because they were inspired by his play & thought if they played well, the team had a chance to win.

The fact the Colts sat their starters does not mean that the Colts did not want to win. I remember the Steelers doing the same thing a couple years ago & they did win.

LOL. The defense were so inspired by Fitz's completing 40% of his passes for 116 yards, that they made 5 interceptions. It's very inspiring when you pass for 86 yards and turn the ball over twice. Going 9 of 23 for less than 100 yards and two turnovers is very inspirational.

Gimme a break with that crap. Maybe they felt like they had to pick up some slack. We had no chance of winning games we won under Fitz without the intangible inspiration he gave to the defense. Thanks Fitz. That's laughable. He played poorly in 3 out of "his" 5 wins...that's a fact. Playing poorly gives inspiration in what world?

Of course the Colts wanted to win, but they weren't trying to win. This is so obvious that I feel stupid trying to explain it AGAIN. When you sit your starters for most of the game, including the league MVP, you aren't trying to win...more specifically, you don't care if you win or not. The team was thinking about avoiding injuries, and that's what the game meant to them. That game meant nothing at all, which is why Goodell made it a point to have more divisional games late in the year so there will be less of these nonsense games. That's how the Jets got into the playoffs. If you looked at the Vegas lines in the last week, you'd see how it is. Do you really think that the Bills were good enough to beat the Colts last year?

[better days]

LOL. The defense were so inspired by Fitz's completing 40% of his passes for 116 yards, that they made 5 interceptions. It's very inspiring when you pass for 86 yards and turn the ball over twice. Going 9 of 23 for less than 100 yards and two turnovers is very inspirational.

Gimme a break with that crap. Maybe they felt like they had to pick up some slack. We had no chance of winning games we won under Fitz without the intangible inspiration he gave to the defense. Thanks Fitz. That's laughable. He played poorly in 3 out of "his" 5 wins...that's a fact. Playing poorly gives inspiration in what world?

Of course the Colts wanted to win, but they weren't trying to win. This is so obvious that I feel stupid trying to explain it AGAIN. When you sit your starters for most of the game, including the league MVP, you aren't trying to win...more specifically, you don't care if you win or not. The team was thinking about avoiding injuries, and that's what the game meant to them. That game meant nothing at all, which is why Goodell made it a point to have more divisional games late in the year so there will be less of these nonsense games. That's how the Jets got into the playoffs. If you looked at the Vegas lines in the last week, you'd see how it is. Do you really think that the Bills were good enough to beat the Colts last year?

I doubt the players look at stats. In Fitz, they saw a guy willing to throw the ball up to his receivers & take a chance that they will catch it. They saw a guy that WANTED to win. That is what inspired them.

You say Fitz played poorly in 3 out of 5 wins & that may be so, but at the end of the day those were WINS.

I remember reading a number of posts over the last few years defending Trent after LOSSES using stats as you like to do. As far as I'm concerned their are only two stats that matter, POINTS on the board & WINS.


Yes the primary goal of the Colts was to come away without injuries, but they still wanted to win the game. As I said before Pittsburg had the same goal a few years before & WON the game.

I think any team is capable of winning on any given Sunday. That is one of the things that makes the NFL so great.

[Typ0]

of course any team can win. Why even bother playing the games if that's not true?


I doubt the players look at stats. In Fitz, they saw a guy willing to throw the ball up to his receivers & take a chance that they will catch it. They saw a guy that WANTED to win. That is what inspired them.

You say Fitz played poorly in 3 out of 5 wins & that may be so, but at the end of the day those were WINS.

I remember reading a number of posts over the last few years defending Trent after LOSSES using stats as you like to do. As far as I'm concerned their are only two stats that matter, POINTS on the board & WINS.


Yes the primary goal of the Colts was to come away without injuries, but they still wanted to win the game. As I said before Pittsburg had the same goal a few years before & WON the game.

I think any team is capable of winning on any given Sunday. That is one of the things that makes the NFL so great.

[feldspar]

I doubt the players look at stats. In Fitz, they saw a guy willing to throw the ball up to his receivers & take a chance that they will catch it. They saw a guy that WANTED to win. That is what inspired them.

You say Fitz played poorly in 3 out of 5 wins & that may be so, but at the end of the day those were WINS.

I remember reading a number of posts over the last few years defending Trent after LOSSES using stats as you like to do. As far as I'm concerned their are only two stats that matter, POINTS on the board & WINS.


Yes the primary goal of the Colts was to come away without injuries, but they still wanted to win the game. As I said before Pittsburg had the same goal a few years before & WON the game.

I think any team is capable of winning on any given Sunday. That is one of the things that makes the NFL so great.

Are you suggesting that the rest of the team, especially the defense, didn't want to win before Fitz stepped in there? They just looked into his eyes, saw the desire to win there, and where somehow hypnotized or bitten my the same bug?

If this were true, and the DEFENSE was inspired by Fitz's attitude despite bad play, they all need to be fired right now. That desire should already be self-created within each player. If it is not, they will NEVER win and don't belong in the NFL.

You have no idea what you are talking about here..."Fitz inspired the defense." You are just plain making that up.

Dude, I'm not going to talk about this issue again, but wanting to win and trying to win are two different things. The level of skill of the opponent just plummeted WAY WAY down when they rested their starters. Nobody that knows anything about football said that the Bills must be pretty good if they can beat the Colts like that. We weren't playing the Colts per se. The Bills were EIGHT point favorites in that game. Why do you figure that is?

[better days]

Are you suggesting that the rest of the team, especially the defense, didn't want to win before Fitz stepped in there? They just looked into his eyes, saw the desire to win there, and where somehow hypnotized or bitten my the same bug?

If this were true, and the DEFENSE was inspired by Fitz's attitude despite bad play, they all need to be fired right now. That desire should already be self-created within each player. If it is not, they will NEVER win and don't belong in the NFL.

You have no idea what you are talking about here..."Fitz inspired the defense." You are just plain making that up.

Dude, I'm not going to talk about this issue again, but wanting to win and trying to win are two different things. The level of skill of the opponent just plummeted WAY WAY down when they rested their starters. Nobody that knows anything about football said that the Bills must be pretty good if they can beat the Colts like that. We weren't playing the Colts per se. The Bills were EIGHT point favorites in that game. Why do you figure that is?

I'm glad you are done with this because so am I. I didn't suggest the defense didn't want to win for Trent you did. You are the one that said the defense bailed out Fitz game after game not me, implying they did not play as well for Trent as they did for Fitz.

It is a well known fact that the team was not unhappy to see Fitz replace Trent as the starter last year. Not a single player came to Trents defense & said that he should start.

Are you saying an 8 point favorite has never lost an NFL game? Not to mention that the Bills were at home & that is worth 3 points alone.

[SABURZFAN]

There was NO EXCUSE for Trent to end that record!! Trent SUCKS period.


yeah.... it was ALL his fault. :rolleyes:

[BertSquirtgum]

if trent can get back to where he was before the knockout. we might have something going for us this year.

[justasportsfan]

WHen a coach like Dick calls out Trent to throw when it's there, you know theres something wrong.

[ddaryl]

WHen a coach like Dick calls out Trent to throw when it's there, you know theres something wrong.

When Dick says anything. you simply ignore it because Dick doesn't even deserve the title coach...

Dick created the mess so using him in an argument against Trent is laughable

[justasportsfan]

When Dick says anything. you simply ignore it because Dick doesn't even deserve the title coach...

Dick created the mess so using him in an argument against Trent is laughable


what it simply means that even an idiot like Dick can see when Trent is dinking when a player is open.

If that doesn;t fly with you , how about the wr's prefering Fitz over Trent. They practice with both qb's and know more than any of us .

I'm not saying Fitz is better than Trent at all. I think Trent has way better potential but when Trent's testicles is left in the locker room, I'll take anyone who's willing to take a chance and this is what the wr's wanted.

Trent was just so Rob Johnson like last year. With that being said, I am hoping Chan can bring out the best it him.

[ddaryl]

Trent was just so Rob Johnson like last year. With that being said, I am hoping Chan can bring out the best it him.


So do I.... I however didn;'t see anything from Fitz that would keep players saying they prefer Fitz... by the time Fitz played 3-4 games for us last year his welcome was being exhausted just the same.

Players might have asked for Fitz when the O was pathetic early on, but that same O was just as pathetic after the players made those comments.... and you and I both knwo what we saw last year....

Might as well stick with potential, because Fitz's potential has plateaued, and Trent's is morey a matter of psychology IMO

[justasportsfan]

So do I.... I however didn;'t see anything from Fitz that would keep players saying they prefer Fitz... by the time Fitz played 3-4 games for us last year his welcome was being exhausted just the same.

Players might have asked for Fitz when the O was pathetic early on, but that same O was just as pathetic after the players made those comments.... and you and I both knwo what we saw last year....

Might as well stick with potential, because Fitz's potential has plateaued, and Trent's is morey a matter of psychology IMO

Meh. Was never impressed with Fitz. Just wanted someone who was willing to throw the ball. Someone who was willing to take a chance on his wrs to make a play. Thats what separated Flutie from Robosack. Flutie took chances while Rob dinked to Larry Centers.

[tat2dmike77]

It's like Losman vs Holcomb all over again.

[Griff]

There used to be a poster here who would often leave out the biggest plays to make an argument ... so much so that the tactic was named after him. Mockingly.

what was done here is a part of statistics, dropping irregular outliers is standard.

[Griff]

Meh. Was never impressed with Fitz. Just wanted someone who was willing to throw the ball. Someone who was willing to take a chance on his wrs to make a play. Thats what separated Flutie from Robosack. Flutie took chances while Rob dinked to Larry Centers.

that was the difference? Talk about understatement. And btw, Fitz is no Flutie.

[Griff]

what it simply means that even an idiot like Dick can see when Trent is dinking when a player is open.

If that doesn;t fly with you , how about the wr's prefering Fitz over Trent. They practice with both qb's and know more than any of us .

I'm not saying Fitz is better than Trent at all. I think Trent has way better potential but when Trent's testicles is left in the locker room, I'll take anyone who's willing to take a chance and this is what the wr's wanted.

Trent was just so Rob Johnson like last year. With that being said, I am hoping Chan can bring out the best it him.

Fitz was like Losman, one long ball a game to make you all go "oh" and "ah". But spent the rest of the time throwing inaccurate passes and making bad decisions.

[justasportsfan]

that was the difference? Talk about understatement. And btw, Fitz is no Flutie.
Never said he was . Besides, last years Trent was no Robosack either. Robosack was better than last years Trent.

[justasportsfan]

Fitz was like Losman, one long ball a game to make you all go "oh" and "ah". But spent the rest of the time throwing inaccurate passes and making bad decisions.
and thats why the Wr's wanted Fitz over Trent as well as AVP and Fewell. They wanted anyone who would throw the ball.

[Mr. Pink]

It's like Losman vs Holcomb all over again.


Sadly since Bledsoe, Holcomb is the closest to an NFL QB this franchise has had.