Logan Mankins demands trade

[rcd333]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/06/patriots-pro-bowl-g-logan-mankins-demands-trade-rejects-signing-contract-offer/1

[New Ro's Greatest]

wow. I hope he is not on that team next season. GO BILLS:D

[NOT THE DUDE...]

sign mankins, move levitre to ot...

[FlyingDutchman]

some pretty strong words...id love to bring him in and move wood to center permanently. Hangartner got blown off the ball enough for me to make the switch already

[buffalobillsfan95]

he would be depth on our team :whistle:

[ServoBillieves]

Nope. Bills won't be in the mix and we already have 2 strong young guards.

Show me an upgrade at tackle and I'll give a damn.

Side question: With 11 players a side, why is 1 position of question (who blocks max 3 players a play, usually one) the downfall of an entire franchises year?

[BertSquirtgum]

sign mankins, move levitre to ot...
do you live in madden fantasy land? many of your comments lead me to believe you do.

edit: plus, we need a left tackle not another guard.

[The Spaz]

For the umpteenth time Levitre is not a tackle!

[BertSquirtgum]

mankins turned down 7 million a year. he should go **** himself. 7 million a year for a guard is pretty damn good.

[Ickybaluky]

This situation isn't that complicated. It is about money.

Mankins is looking at Jhari Evans contract and wants that money ($8M per). He can make a case, as both players are RFA coming off a couple of Pro Bowls. He is the Pats best OL.

The Patriots have made a contract offer for less than that, and hold onto his rights by tendering him as a RFA.

This situation plays itself out every year with many teams. This year there is more than usual, because of the CBA uncertainty and the uncapped year keeping 4- and 5-year players from becoming UFA.

Ultimately, this will resolve itself, the rest of it is just negotiation rhetoric. It may end in a new contract, a trade or him signing the tender, but it will play out. Mankins is not under contract and doesn't have to play, but he will report eventually or his rights roll over and he is in the same position next year.

In the interim, the Pats have a veteran to plug into the spot, in Nick Kaczur. Kaczur has started for them at RT for the last 4 years, but the emergence of Sebastian Vollmer pushed him out late last year. In OTAs this year he is playing in Mankins spot. One thing the Pats have is depth on the OL.

This really isn't unlike Vincent Jackson's or Marcus McNeill's situation in San Diego. Eventually it will work itself out one way or the other.

[Yasgur's Farm]

mankins turned down 7 million a year. he should go **** himself. 7 million a year for a guard is pretty damn good.Where did you get $7M from that article? I read $3.26.

[Yasgur's Farm]

"After the 2008 season, me and my agent approached the Patriots about an extension and I was told that Mr. Kraft did not want to do an extension because of the (CBA). I was asked to play '09 out, and that they would address contract after the uncapped year. I'm a team player, I took them at word, and I felt I played out an undervalued contract."What's he *****in about? They said "after the uncapped year".

[DraftBoy]

Nope. Bills won't be in the mix and we already have 2 strong young guards.

Show me an upgrade at tackle and I'll give a damn.

Side question: With 11 players a side, why is 1 position of question (who blocks max 3 players a play, usually one) the downfall of an entire franchises year?

How about an upgrade at OC? You move Wood to OC, allow Hangartner to play both OC and OG roles as a top reserve.

[psubills62]

Mankins would be nice, but are we really looking to give up a first round pick? Because I'm sure that's AT LEAST what he would cost.

Of course, maybe we should do that preemptively to prevent Oakland from giving up their next 12 first round picks for him (starting in 2012, because they already gave away the 2011 first rounder).

[OpIv37]

Don't trade for him. I hate trades within the division.

But if he gets moved off the Patriots, this could be a good thing for the Bills. And it's good to see players wanting out of the NE organization for once. That's a very rare situation.

[Mindbender]

"That's the big thing. Right now, this is about principle with me and keeping your word and how you treat people. This is what I thought the foundation of the Patriots was built on. Apparently, I was wrong. Growing up, I was taught a man's word is his bond. Obviously this isn't the case with the Patriots."

Wow, them's fighting words.

[BertSquirtgum]

Where did you get $7M from that article? I read $3.26.

Report: Mankins turned down five-year deal worth $7 million a year
Posted by Michael David Smith on June 14, 2010 8:19 PM ET
We already knew that the New England Patriots and guard Logan Mankins are at odds over their inability to reach an agreement on a long-term deal. Now a new report details what the Patriots offered in their side of the negotiations.

Albert Breer of the Boston Globe reports that the Patriots' last offer, which has has been on the table for "a significant period of time," was a five-year deal worth about $7 million a year.

It's not clear how that deal is structured and how much of the money is guaranteed, but Breer reports, citing a league source, that it would make Mankins one of the five highest-paid guards in the NFL.

With Mankins refusing to sign his tender, the Patriots will reduce his 2010 offer from $3.268 million to $1.54 million.

[Ickybaluky]

The offer might actually be lower than $7M per. The Pats probably want him to play this year for the tender amount, then the extension kicks in. The $7M probably is the average of the extension amount, but the first year salary is much lower, so the average is probably about $6.5M.

I don't blame Mankins for being mad, anymore than Vincent Jackson or Elvis Dumerville. Those guys are getting screwed but the CBA uncapped year rules. They should have been UFA this year and get their one chance at big money.

It is easy for fans to say guys should just shut up and play. However, they play a sport with a 100% injury rate. If they get injured it will cost them millions if they haven't had their shot at guaranteed money. If I were a player, I'd be pissed too.

There is a lot of this going on this year, and it will continue until the CBA is worked out.

[billz83]

actually i think our entire oline is terrible..i dont give a **** if a couple of them are "decent" or show "potential" the point of the matter is this OLINE SUCKS! and it sucks BAD! ANY PRO BOWLER that is STILL GOOD in free agency should be priority...obviously the bills seem to think this OLINE and these QBz are good enough to compete in the NFL hahahaha..they are MISTAKEN HORRIBLY! sumday this organization will make decisions with a brain till that day we will continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL..

[OpIv37]

I don't blame Mankins for being mad, anymore than Vincent Jackson or Elvis Dumerville. Those guys are getting screwed but the CBA uncapped year rules. They should have been UFA this year and get their one chance at big money.


This is a little O/T, but:

This situation makes me wonder why the greedy-ass NFLPA is being so bull-headed about their demands in the new CBA while so many of their members are getting the shaft.

The NFLPA operates like something between a greedy, heartless corporation and an organized crime syndicate. I was hoping it would change now that Upshaw is gone, but so far it seems to be exactly the same, if not worse.

[Mindbender]

actually i think our entire oline is terrible..i dont give a **** if a couple of them are "decent" or show "potential" the point of the matter is this OLINE SUCKS! and it sucks BAD! ANY PRO BOWLER that is STILL GOOD in free agency should be priority...obviously the bills seem to think this OLINE and these QBz are good enough to compete in the NFL hahahaha..they are MISTAKEN HORRIBLY! sumday this organization will make decisions with a brain till that day we will continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL..

deep breaths. deep breaths. The world isn't ending.

[OpIv37]

actually i think our entire oline is terrible..i dont give a **** if a couple of them are "decent" or show "potential" the point of the matter is this OLINE SUCKS! and it sucks BAD! ANY PRO BOWLER that is STILL GOOD in free agency should be priority...obviously the bills seem to think this OLINE and these QBz are good enough to compete in the NFL hahahaha..they are MISTAKEN HORRIBLY! sumday this organization will make decisions with a brain till that day we will continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL..

Wood and Levitre are slightly above average.
Han is slightly below average.
Our T's are probably the worst tandem in the league.

[Goobylal]

I'm sure that a) the average for the contract was less than $7M, like NE said, b) didn't contain as much guaranteed money as most contracts like that call for, and c) Mankins saw what a Pro Bowl OG from a SB-winning team got, probably figured he took a discount to stay with the SB winner, and wants at least that much. It will definitely play out somehow, and may just be that he sits-out the first 8 games, plays out the last year, and then is an UFA the next year (or after, if there are no games/a lockout/strike, etc.). No one will trade a 1st round pick for an OG with $8M+/year contract demands.

[Ickybaluky]

This is a little O/T, but:

This situation makes me wonder why the greedy-ass NFLPA is being so bull-headed about their demands in the new CBA while so many of their members are getting the shaft.

The NFLPA operates like something between a greedy, heartless corporation and an organized crime syndicate. I was hoping it would change now that Upshaw is gone, but so far it seems to be exactly the same, if not worse.

It is pretty simple. The owners want to cut the percentage of revenue shared by 18%, citing increased operating costs and smaller margins. Granted, they are asking that number and probably figuring on half that after negotiations, but it is still a significant cut.

I don't care what you make, if your employer comes to you and asks you to take a significant pay cut, you aren't going to be happy.

[Goobylal]

It is pretty simple. The owners want to cut the percentage of revenue shared by 18%, citing increased operating costs and smaller margins. Granted, they are asking that number and probably figuring on half that after negotiations, but it is still a significant cut.

I don't care what you make, if your employer comes to you and asks you to take a significant pay cut, you aren't going to be happy.
They want an 18% cut in what? The players currently get 59.5% of total revenues, after that 2006 CBA, whereas prior to that, they got about 54.5% of total revenue (or about 60% of shared revenue; I wish I had the actual numbers). I'm thinking the owners at least want to get back to basing the cap just off of shared revenue, and decreasing the percentage to recoup the close to $1B extra they paid out to the players the past 5 years.

But you're right that now that the players have tasted 59.5% of total revenue, they won't want to go back, at least not easily. The owners should have stood their ground in 2006. But they got to work too late, and didn't want to have to cut players. I remember ESPN having a field day with Ralph's "I didn't understand it" clip, only to later find out he was dead-on when he said "I think the players got too much," which is the rest of the clip they somehow forgot to play.

[OpIv37]

It is pretty simple. The owners want to cut the percentage of revenue shared by 18%, citing increased operating costs and smaller margins. Granted, they are asking that number and probably figuring on half that after negotiations, but it is still a significant cut.

I don't care what you make, if your employer comes to you and asks you to take a significant pay cut, you aren't going to be happy.

it's not quite as simple as that though, because it's percentage based. It's a smaller percentage, but since overall revenues go up every year, the amount of money that goes to the players goes up every year as well. It's not going to be a pay cut- it's going to be smaller raises.

And it makes sense- the reason there are so many holdouts these days is because the cap goes up so quickly. A deal that seemed fair 2 years ago is considered underpaid when the cap goes up by $15+ million a season.

[DraftBoy]

it's not quite as simple as that though, because it's percentage based. It's a smaller percentage, but since overall revenues go up every year, the amount of money that goes to the players goes up every year as well. It's not going to be a pay cut- it's going to be smaller raises.

And it makes sense- the reason there are so many holdouts these days is because the cap goes up so quickly. A deal that seemed fair 2 years ago is considered underpaid when the cap goes up by $15+ million a season.

Would the annual revenue increase though cover an 18% decrease in revenue sharing?

I dont know the exact figures, but one of you is right. Its either smaller raises or a pay cut.

[OpIv37]

Would the annual revenue increase though cover an 18% decrease in revenue sharing?

I dont know the exact figures, but one of you is right. Its either smaller raises or a pay cut.

I think NE39 is right on the fact that they started high to give room for negotiation. My guess is that whatever they agree upon will be smaller raises rather than a pay cut. I can't blame the players for not wanting a pay cut, but their current pay structure grows too quickly and is not sustainable long-term.

[BertSquirtgum]

actually i think our entire oline is terrible..i dont give a **** if a couple of them are "decent" or show "potential" the point of the matter is this OLINE SUCKS! and it sucks BAD! ANY PRO BOWLER that is STILL GOOD in free agency should be priority...obviously the bills seem to think this OLINE and these QBz are good enough to compete in the NFL hahahaha..they are MISTAKEN HORRIBLY! sumday this organization will make decisions with a brain till that day we will continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL..

this post is a moron

[Nighthawk]

This situation isn't that complicated. It is about money.

Mankins is looking at Jhari Evans contract and wants that money ($8M per). He can make a case, as both players are RFA coming off a couple of Pro Bowls. He is the Pats best OL.

The Patriots have made a contract offer for less than that, and hold onto his rights by tendering him as a RFA.

This situation plays itself out every year with many teams. This year there is more than usual, because of the CBA uncertainty and the uncapped year keeping 4- and 5-year players from becoming UFA.

Ultimately, this will resolve itself, the rest of it is just negotiation rhetoric. It may end in a new contract, a trade or him signing the tender, but it will play out. Mankins is not under contract and doesn't have to play, but he will report eventually or his rights roll over and he is in the same position next year.

In the interim, the Pats have a veteran to plug into the spot, in Nick Kaczur. Kaczur has started for them at RT for the last 4 years, but the emergence of Sebastian Vollmer pushed him out late last year. In OTAs this year he is playing in Mankins spot. One thing the Pats have is depth on the OL.

This really isn't unlike Vincent Jackson's or Marcus McNeill's situation in San Diego. Eventually it will work itself out one way or the other.

Except Mankins has stated that he wants out of NE...

[Ickybaluky]

They want an 18% cut in what?

The owners proposal asked for a cut in player expenses of 18%. That is total player expenses, including benefits, etc. They reportedly started there, but are hoping for a 9% cut.

The owners argument is the portion going to players has grown too fast, so they are having trouble covering operating expenses due to increased stadium costs, etc. They claim that even though the players would be getting a smaller percentage, the amount of actual money being spent wouldn't go down because revenues are growing.

Of course, from a players perspective it is a pretty severe cut. Hence, the lack of an agreement.

[Ickybaluky]

Except Mankins has stated that he wants out of NE...

Because they haven't given him the money he wants. He may ultimately get what he wants, like Deion Branch did.

[Goobylal]

The owners proposal asked for a cut in player expenses of 18%. That is total player expenses, including benefits, etc. They reportedly started there, but are hoping for a 9% cut.

The owners argument is the portion going to players has grown too fast, so they are having trouble covering operating expenses due to increased stadium costs, etc. They claim that even though the players would be getting a smaller percentage, the amount of actual money being spent wouldn't go down because revenues are growing.

Of course, from a players perspective it is a pretty severe cut. Hence, the lack of an agreement.
Thanks for the info. As I said, the owners should have stood their ground the first time around.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd have no problem making a deal with the Pats for Logan.

Move Wood to C and really shore up the interior.

Again, it all depends on what they'd be asking for in return.

[DraftBoy]

Yea I dont see how anybody could be against landing Mankins unless it would cost us a ton in terms of picks.

[tampabay25690]

I would go and try and grab DONALD PENN from TAMPA for our LT instead.....
He wants out of Tampa bad now.....

[billz83]

this post is a moron

We'll see whoz the moron when the season starts and our QBz are the worst in the league yet again..and our OLINE crumbs like EVERY OTHER YEAR..what exactly did we do to fix the OLINE ohya nothing we signed cornell green..hahaha and for QBz we are giving the job back to captain checkdown..i hope im wrong but again i know i wont be..this Oline is TERRIBLE..and the QBz are just as bad if not worse.

[JCBills]

How about an upgrade at OC? You move Wood to OC, allow Hangartner to play both OC and OG roles as a top reserve.

Exactly, our interior line would be solidified for so long it would be somewhat ridiculous haha.

Hangartner did very well as the #2 across the interior in Carolina, allowing him to do that here is more useful than him starting. I doubt the Pats would ever trade with us, but I would be all over this. Our oldest interior lineman that would actually be seeing time would be 28 years old, yet we'd have a ton of experience and talent in every spot. I'm sure our QBs and RBs would approve of the idea.

[BertSquirtgum]

We'll see whoz the moron when the season starts and our QBz are the worst in the league yet again..and our OLINE crumbs like EVERY OTHER YEAR..what exactly did we do to fix the OLINE ohya nothing we signed cornell green..hahaha and for QBz we are giving the job back to captain checkdown..i hope im wrong but again i know i wont be..this Oline is TERRIBLE..and the QBz are just as bad if not worse.
where did you get that inside knowledge that trent is going to be the starting quarterback? you're a fool. your comments would make more sense if you used the correct spelling. are you 12 years old? using z's instead of an s is really gangster man. you're awesome. LOLZZZZZZZZZZ

[YardRat]

This is a little O/T, but:

This situation makes me wonder why the greedy-ass NFLPA is being so bull-headed about their demands in the new CBA while so many of their members are getting the shaft.

The NFLPA operates like something between a greedy, heartless corporation and an organized crime syndicate. I was hoping it would change now that Upshaw is gone, but so far it seems to be exactly the same, if not worse.

Never had the pleasure of dealing with a union before, have you? That's the way it works. Eventually it comes down to protecting the leadership's benefits first, and then settling for the best they can for the rest of the group. They'll end up 'eating their young', agreeing to concessions for younger guys (rookie salary cap, smaller benefit package, etc) to maintain or increase the total package for vets on the negotiating team and those around the league in a similar situation.

[YardRat]

it's not quite as simple as that though, because it's percentage based. It's a smaller percentage, but since overall revenues go up every year, the amount of money that goes to the players goes up every year as well. It's not going to be a pay cut- it's going to be smaller raises.

And it makes sense- the reason there are so many holdouts these days is because the cap goes up so quickly. A deal that seemed fair 2 years ago is considered underpaid when the cap goes up by $15+ million a season.

Even though the figures aren't written into a current contract, a smaller raise isn't viewed as a 'gain', but rather a 'loss', based on the earning potential from the terms of the previous agreement.

[Captain Obvious]

NE39 has been able to get away with being smug while the Patsies were winning Super Bowls but now things are different in Patriotland and he refuses to see the forest through the trees

[billz83]

where did you get that inside knowledge that trent is going to be the starting quarterback? you're a fool. your comments would make more sense if you used the correct spelling. are you 12 years old? using z's instead of an s is really gangster man. you're awesome. LOLZZZZZZZZZZ

um who do u think is going to start Fitz? or ur parta the group that thinks Brohm is the next "diamond" in the rough?! hahaha ur dumber then i thought..and ud think u clown ass english teachers would keep ur JOB IN SCHOOL! shut the **** up bout the grammar bull****..ur not capitalizing the first letter of ur sentence u douchebag..i cant stand the online english teacherz buncha wannabe proofreaderz.

[JCBills]

um who do u think is going to start Fitz? or ur parta the group that thinks Brohm is the next "diamond" in the rough?! hahaha ur dumber then i thought..and ud think u clown ass english teachers would keep ur JOB IN SCHOOL! shut the **** up bout the grammar bull****..ur not capitalizing the first letter of ur sentence u douchebag..i cant stand the online english teacherz buncha wannabe proofreaderz.

Wannabe proofreader? What the?

[Ickybaluky]

NE39 has been able to get away with being smug while the Patsies were winning Super Bowls but now things are different in Patriotland and he refuses to see the forest through the trees

I am still smug. I always fed my arrogance with other things anyway. Never really tied it to a football team.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I still say the Belecheats dicksmoker ways will come back and bite him in the ass

[better days]

I am still smug. I always fed my arrogance with other things anyway. Never really tied it to a football team.

Of course you didn't. Everyone knows the Red Sox come 1st in Patsland.

[JCBills]

Of course you didn't. Everyone knows the Red Sox come 1st in Patsland.

Unless they're both doing bad at the time, in which case nobody in the region has ever heard of either. I live here, I see it.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

um who do u think is going to start Fitz? or ur parta the group that thinks Brohm is the next "diamond" in the rough?! hahaha ur dumber then i thought..and ud think u clown ass english teachers would keep ur JOB IN SCHOOL! shut the **** up bout the grammar bull****..ur not capitalizing the first letter of ur sentence u douchebag..i cant stand the online english teacherz buncha wannabe proofreaderz.

hilarious...:clap:

[BertSquirtgum]

um who do u think is going to start Fitz? or ur parta the group that thinks Brohm is the next "diamond" in the rough?! hahaha ur dumber then i thought..and ud think u clown ass english teachers would keep ur JOB IN SCHOOL! shut the **** up bout the grammar bull****..ur not capitalizing the first letter of ur sentence u douchebag..i cant stand the online english teacherz buncha wannabe proofreaderz.

here's the proof i needed. you're ******ed.

[BertSquirtgum]

hilarious...:clap:

we know you're billz83. give it up.

[JCBills]

we know you're billz83. give it up.

Haha I'd actually give John D much more credit at this point. We joined here around the same time, and initially he was just very annoying, but now he actually contributes to conversation, and obviously cares about the team and knows them fairly well. At least we're not constantly waiting for polls.

[Ickybaluky]

I still say the Belecheats dicksmoker ways will come back and bite him in the ass

How many years in a row has this prediction been made? I lost count.

[BertSquirtgum]

it's bound to happen sooner rather than later. they can put it off by acquiring more and more draft picks but the brady era will be over sometime soon.

[ddaryl]

Never had the pleasure of dealing with a union before, have you? That's the way it works. Eventually it comes down to protecting the leadership's benefits first, and then settling for the best they can for the rest of the group. They'll end up 'eating their young', agreeing to concessions for younger guys (rookie salary cap, smaller benefit package, etc) to maintain or increase the total package for vets on the negotiating team and those around the league in a similar situation.


Well lets not lump all unions into this mess. The IAW went on strike in 2008 to ensure new hires were included on our pension plan. We also went on strike to prevent massive healthcare cuts, and contract languange that weaken job security... but the union as a whole was very upset about the pension crap the company is pimping.

The company insisted that new hires would only get an "enhanced 401K" plan, but you and I and everyone here knows that none of us should ever and can ever trust the market as our sole retirement means....



In the case of the NFLPA.... You and I can both agree that top rookie draft picks are overpaid and there needs to be a seperate cap to keep those salaries in control.