QB Pecking Order: Not Surprised

[ghz in pittsburgh]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-news-and-notes.html&team=87

I have always believed that Trent is the most talented QB on the current roster. As such I'm not surprised and feel that he should be penciled in as the #1 guy going into camp.

I do find that he's curiously quiet this spring. Remember the years past? He's always talking to media or made himself available for media. This year, I found he deliberately shy away from questions or offering his opinions to the point I don't think he has a take charge personality. I'm thinking the limited success he had in NFL came a little too quick too soon from his rookie season, and now he's smarting from the stings he got over the last year.

Honestly I don't know what will come out from him this year.

[justasportsfan]

We'll see how things pan out once the pads come on and the defenders are allowed to get close to the qb. If Trent reverts back to dinking, Brohm could end up no. 1.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

We'll see how things pan out once the pads come on and the defenders are allowed to get close to the qb. If Trent reverts back to dinking, Brohm could end up no. 1.

Agree, once preseason rolls around will see the "I'm not a fan, I'm just the QB" plays. I'm sorry but I can't stand Edwards and hope he's on IR before the season starts.

[HHURRICANE]

I'll wait to Gailey annouces it. But I won't be surprised. If I'm a coach I'm going with the guy that gives me the best chance to win.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Get ready for another QB carousel this year.

Edwards will start and get hurt or benched by Week 5, then Fitzpatrick will step in and get benched after going 0-2, then Brohm gets his shot and wins his first game and we'll get all gush over him, until he loses the next 3 games and gets benched for Edwards again to finish the season at 5-11. Then hello Jake Locker.

[HHURRICANE]

Agree, once preseason rolls around will see the "I'm not a fan, I'm just the QB" plays. I'm sorry but I can't stand Edwards and hope he's on IR before the season starts.

I guess if Brohm sucks that is still better than Edwards?

What kind of logic is that?

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

I'll wait to Gailey annouces it. But I won't be surprised. If I'm a coach I'm going with the guy that gives me the best chance to win.

If I'm coaching I wait till preseason to determine the starter.

[Dr. Lecter]

Agree, once preseason rolls around will see the "I'm not a fan, I'm just the QB" plays. I'm sorry but I can't stand Edwards and hope he's on IR before the season starts.


Why the hell would anybody root for a player in his favorite team to get injured?

That is some stupid **** right there.

[BillsWin]

Sounds like speculations to me. But it also sounds about right.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

I guess if Brohm sucks that is still better than Edwards?

What kind of logic is that?

Seriously, you don't see Rob Johnson in Trent? He lost the locker room last year and the guy has no heart. You can't coach/teach heart, it's sorta like common sense, you either got it or you don't, it can't be taught.

He looks just like Rob did back there, but instead of taking sacks like Rob, Trent dumps it off.

[Mindbender]

If Trent reverts back to dinking, Brohm could end up no. 1.

ha! I read this as "drinking" at first and thought I missed a HUGE Bills scandal.

[OpIv37]

I'm no fan of Edwards, but it's his job to lose. He's done more than Fitzy and neither Brohm nor Brown have proven anything yet.

I hope someone overtakes Edwards in camp. I wasn't impressed with the selection from the second he was drafted, and I think he's shell-shocked due to poor coaching and lack of protection. But I don't see it happening. He'll be the starter for at least the first few games, until the OL gets him killed.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Why the hell would anybody root for a player in his favorite team to get injured?

That is some stupid **** right there.

Um, maybe because I don't want him on this team.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

This is what I don't agree with you guys. Dink and donk is not the problem. It can work. And it's actually proven that it works in NFL. The problem is adjusting, like when they take your dink and donk away.

From what I understand, Edwards processes info after snap really fast, and makes his decision fast, too. That second part is what DCs in the league are attacking him now. The first 3 seconds. They disguise the defense for the first 3 seconds and it seems to do really well against Edwards (no wonder the 3-4 defense offers more variations).

Gailey may help from the viewpoint that our offense is going to do a lot of disguise according to all the reports; so opposing defense may not have a firm handle on what our top attacking option on each play. But I see this as more from a player development viewpoint. Edwards, when he came into NFL, showed his flashes. Now coaches around the league found holes in his game. It's Edwards' turn - can he overcome that?

[ddaryl]

Agree, once preseason rolls around will see the "I'm not a fan, I'm just the QB" plays. I'm sorry but I can't stand Edwards and hope he's on IR before the season starts.


spoken like a true Bills fan... wishing injury on a player.


No one should be wishing injury on anyone for any reason

[ServoBillieves]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-news-and-notes.html&team=87

I have always believed that Trent is the most talented QB on the current roster. As such I'm not surprised and feel that he should be penciled in as the #1 guy going into camp.

I do find that he's curiously quiet this spring. Remember the years past? He's always talking to media or made himself available for media. This year, I found he deliberately shy away from questions or offering his opinions to the point I don't think he has a take charge personality. I'm thinking the limited success he had in NFL came a little too quick too soon from his rookie season, and now he's smarting from the stings he got over the last year.

Honestly I don't know what will come out from him this year.

As he should. I am a very, very stern believer in man-up or shut-up. After not performing, he shut up. This is where I'm a fan of his. Where I am not a fan, is his recent play, and especially the recently mentioned "I'm not a fan I'm the QB." Nobody knows what context that was in except him, but it's still asinine to say.

Trent's talking needs to be done on the field, so him not having press conferences and little talks with the media is fine by me and shows maturity. Maturity needs to translate to the field and not duck when you think you're about to get hit.

[trapezeus]

the issue with edwards for me is his durability. i actually have very little problem seeing him win a camp battle where he isn't touched and is allowed to throw the ball efficiently and according to plan.

He didn't lose the lockerroom last year. From the talk of players now, it seems like everyone just checked out last year from the jauron years. They knew they were set up to fail.

If gailey can get to edwards to know when to dink and dunk and when to take bigger chances, he could be that 5-1 trent we all knew. However, i just have a hard time seeing him last 16 games, and i am weary that he can pull throw the buffalo winter.

Last year those were the things i wanted to see from him to see if he was the real deal and he failed on both. however, jauron and his staff really had no clue and you hear that from even the most loyal jauron players from last year. So we'll see.

I personally want to see edwards be the real deal or nothing at all. i think if we can walk away from all these QB's and get the pick right next year and address OL and WR in next year's draft as well and DE, we could be good next year.

[Forward_Lateral]

Hopefully, if Trent is the starter, Chan uses passing plays that get the ball out of his hands quickly. That's when he's most effective. When he has to sit there and think too much, he is his own worst enemy. Quick, west-coast style passing attack would be perfect for Trent, and the speedy WRs that we have.

[HHURRICANE]

This is what I don't agree with you guys. Dink and donk is not the problem. It can work. And it's actually proven that it works in NFL. The problem is adjusting, like when they take your dink and donk away.

From what I understand, Edwards processes info after snap really fast, and makes his decision fast, too. That second part is what DCs in the league are attacking him now. The first 3 seconds. They disguise the defense for the first 3 seconds and it seems to do really well against Edwards (no wonder the 3-4 defense offers more variations).

Gailey may help from the viewpoint that our offense is going to do a lot of disguise according to all the reports; so opposing defense may not have a firm handle on what our top attacking option on each play. But I see this as more from a player development viewpoint. Edwards, when he came into NFL, showed his flashes. Now coaches around the league found holes in his game. It's Edwards' turn - can he overcome that?

This was very impressive analysis.

Nobody wants to discount the fact that he was handicapped when he lost 3 of his starting lineman and than had to deal with with a new OC with a week of experience.

I agree that Edwards has to show he has some guts. As I mentioned before I have a girl in our office who's brother was his liineman in college and he wasn't excatly a team favorite. It's certainly up to him now.

[better days]

I guess if Brohm sucks that is still better than Edwards?

What kind of logic is that?

Even Fitz while he sucks, is at least more exciting to watch than Trent. It is one thing to suck, but to suck & be exceedingly BORING at the same time SUCKS!!!

[JCBills]

Get ready for another QB carousel this year.

Edwards will start and get hurt or benched by Week 5, then Fitzpatrick will step in and get benched after going 0-2, then Brohm gets his shot and wins his first game and we'll get all gush over him, until he loses the next 3 games and gets benched for Edwards again to finish the season at 5-11. Then hello Jake Locker.

That doesn't get us much of anywhere, 1st round QBs are still a major gamble.

[trapezeus]

not with 2011 being billed at the next 1983 draft.

the thing with this years QB situation is that it needs to be either lights out good or lights out bad. we need that QB to be here right now and able to get better so we can draft other positions. We can live with another mid level round 1 pick for OT's, WR, DE.

but for a game changing QB or OT that can start, etc...it needs to come early in the draft with can't miss written all over him.

I don't want edwards to have 2 200 yard passing games coming from a lot of screen tosses and spiller running for yardage and not feeling like he can convert 3rd and long. then watch him get injured play mediocre and strugglein the winter and end up 7-9 wondering, "does he need more help, or do we need a new QB at pick 12-15."

That would be the worst for this team. We can't get mid level play from these guys and i think that's all we are going to get out of them unless gailey really is a hidden genius.

[Philagape]

Agree, once preseason rolls around will see the "I'm not a fan, I'm just the QB" plays. I'm sorry but I can't stand Edwards and hope he's on IR before the season starts.

Wow, not only taking the quote out of context, but nonsensically applying it to plays. What does that even mean?

[justasportsfan]

He didn't lose the lockerroom last year. .
players wanted Fitz. It could be he didn't lose the team but I guess you can say the team prefered Fitz.

[Philagape]

I hope someone overtakes Edwards in camp.

What if it's Fitz, like last year? :ill:

[Michael82]

Am I the only one annoyed that Trent Edwards is getting every chance possible to keep the starting QB job? It's not just because of him having no balls and being more conservative than Kelly Holcomb...but it's also because it's basically a 1-year deal with him no matter what. There's no way they are going to pay him the big bucks and give him a long term deal, even if he does decent as the starter all year.

So basically it's a 1-year bandaid and we don't get to see what the young QB with not much of a history can do for us. If Edwards starts as the #1 QB, to me it pretty much means you can throw in the towel for 2011 too because we will definitely be drafting a QB in the 1st round. At least with Brohm...we have him for a couple years so we can see what we got with him and if he looks like **** or even mediocre, we draft a QB high next year too.

[trapezeus]

players wanted Fitz. It could be he didn't lose the team but I guess you can say the team prefered Fitz.

i agree partially to that statement. edwards was certainly a painful regression last year and after the cleveland game it was obvious that fitz had more going for him in terms of taking chances.

but it seems like players really just gave up under jauron and that they hated the last second changes. it was bigger than just edwards.

[trapezeus]

Am I the only one annoyed that Trent Edwards is getting every chance possible to keep the starting QB job? It's not just because of him having no balls and being more conservative than Kelly Holcomb...but it's also because it's basically a 1-year deal with him no matter what. There's no way they are going to pay him the big bucks and give him a long term deal, even if he does decent as the starter all year.

So basically it's a 1-year bandaid and we don't get to see what the young QB with not much of a history can do for us. If Edwards starts as the #1 QB, to me it pretty much means you can throw in the towel for 2011 too because we will definitely be drafting a QB in the 1st round. At least with Brohm...we have him for a couple years so we can see what we got with him and if he looks like **** or even mediocre, we draft a QB high next year too.

i think this new management might just be realists and say, "edwards is the cheapest option and best chance to win some games. if he fails he's going to do so spectacularly and we'll get a top end QB. In the mean time we'll have developed our offensive philosphy and set up our top rated secondary with our mediocre LB crew and weak front 3."

i like the idea of a bad 2010 bills team getting the right QB, with spiller and jackson doing well and a decent coaching staff coaching up our current OL. then we pick some more OL talent, a new QB, a DE and a LB, and we could be good in 2011. definitely by 2012.

[Michael82]

i think this new management might just be realists and say, "edwards is the cheapest option and best chance to win some games. if he fails he's going to do so spectacularly and we'll get a top end QB. In the mean time we'll have developed our offensive philosphy and set up our top rated secondary with our mediocre LB crew and weak front 3."

i like the idea of a bad 2010 bills team getting the right QB, with spiller and jackson doing well and a decent coaching staff coaching up our current OL. then we pick some more OL talent, a new QB, a DE and a LB, and we could be good in 2011. definitely by 2012.
The problem is...Edwards isn't the worse QB ever. I know it's hard to believe, but I could honestly see his mediocre play hurting us and basically eliminating any chance we have at the top 2 QBs in the draft next year because he'll do just enough to win some games, but like the rest of his career...he'll never hit 300 yards passing and will not win the game himself.

[trapezeus]

i think the edwarsd you saw last year was a really bad version..one who was broken down physically and sold down the river by the very coach he trusted. to top it off he was dealing with a rookie OC and a line shuffled at the last second. at to that that he was already timid from his concussion.. good stuff isn't coming out of that.

i think edwards could play much better if he had confidence in his coaches which is what gailey might just think he can provide.

the issue with mediocre edwards play is that he will get injured playing like that. and if he does, brohm and fitz won't do any better.

the bills either come out this season and shock people, or they get trampled and are the doormat of the league. either way, the fans will win.

[Philagape]

If I'm someone who wants the team to win, I don't want my QB passing for 300 yards. That's often a bad sign. Passing yardage is the most overrated stat in football, and that's saying a lot.

[Michael82]

i think the edwarsd you saw last year was a really bad version..one who was broken down physically and sold down the river by the very coach he trusted. to top it off he was dealing with a rookie OC and a line shuffled at the last second. at to that that he was already timid from his concussion.. good stuff isn't coming out of that.

i think edwards could play much better if he had confidence in his coaches which is what gailey might just think he can provide.

the issue with mediocre edwards play is that he will get injured playing like that. and if he does, brohm and fitz won't do any better.

the bills either come out this season and shock people, or they get trampled and are the doormat of the league. either way, the fans will win.
I honestly don't see why everyone loved the 2008 version of Trent Edwards. He wasn't a good QB then and last year he lost all confidence in the team and they lost confidence in him. I watched him in mini-camp this year and he still looked lost. I can't wait to see him in Training Camp this year because I want to see for myself how he is mentally. Even in Training Camp last year, he looked awful!

[better days]

If I'm someone who wants the team to win, I don't want my QB passing for 300 yards. That's often a bad sign. Passing yardage is the most overrated stat in football, and that's saying a lot.

I am not a stats guy myself, but I think completion percentage is the most overrated stat myself. All the completions for too little yds to make 1st down, that is the worst stat ever.

[Philagape]

I am not a stats guy myself, but I think completion percentage is the most overrated stat myself. All the completions for too little yds to make 1st down, that is the worst stat ever.

Generally, it can be misleading, but further breakdown is needed to see if it is. I don't care if a guy completes 80 percent of 5-yard passes; I want to see the intermediates. And even then, you question were the passes in stride, were they the best decisions, etc. etc.

[better days]

Wow, not only taking the quote out of context, but nonsensically applying it to plays. What does that even mean?

I think Trent meant that he was a Professional Football player & was not a fan of the Bills. It implied to me that he did not care if he was the QB of the Bills or any other team in the league.

[Philagape]

I think Trent meant that he was a Professional Football player & was not a fan of the Bills. It implied to me that he did not care if he was the QB of the Bills or any other team in the league.

When I hear the word "fan," to me it means someone who only watches NFL games, as opposed to participating in them. In military terms, a civilian. That's what it generally refers to; fans in the stands and watching TV. For an NFL player to say he's not that is stating the obvious. Edwards was asked about what fans think; his response was basically, "ask them. I'm not one of them." Which he isn't. Nor is any NFL player. Players and fans have different perspectives, so they shouldn't be speaking for each other.

[trapezeus]

I honestly don't see why everyone loved the 2008 version of Trent Edwards. He wasn't a good QB then and last year he lost all confidence in the team and they lost confidence in him. I watched him in mini-camp this year and he still looked lost. I can't wait to see him in Training Camp this year because I want to see for myself how he is mentally. Even in Training Camp last year, he looked awful!

that early 2008, pre concussion trent won close games, and brought the team from behind. they had a swagger and even though they were beating bad teams closesly, you knew if it was close, we had a chance. this last year every game was losable, and they did.

i'm torn. i'd love for edwards to succeed and get to the playoffs because 10 years without is pathetic. i need playoff football. but i know this team needs a real top notch QB who can withstand a beating. i don't think we had a shot at that guy in this last draft. i think we can get that guy in the next draft.

[Michael82]

that early 2008, pre concussion trent won close games, and brought the team from behind. they had a swagger and even though they were beating bad teams closesly, you knew if it was close, we had a chance. this last year every game was losable, and they did.

i'm torn. i'd love for edwards to succeed and get to the playoffs because 10 years without is pathetic. i need playoff football. but i know this team needs a real top notch QB who can withstand a beating. i don't think we had a shot at that guy in this last draft. i think we can get that guy in the next draft.
Pre-Concussion Trent Edwards was good and showed the ability to comeback and win games. The problem is that he's not the same since and has had at least 1 more concussion too. I honestly think his brain is scrambled and he will never regain his confidence, especially here.

[JCBills]

Generally, it can be misleading, but further breakdown is needed to see if it is. I don't care if a guy completes 80 percent of 5-yard passes; I want to see the intermediates. And even then, you question were the passes in stride, were they the best decisions, etc. etc.

Funny, the last time I had a metrics based thread you spent days trying to say it's all junk, now you want to see?

[Philagape]

Funny, the last time I had a metrics based thread you spent days trying to say it's all junk, now you want to see?

As in, the plays with my own eyes.

[JCBills]

that early 2008, pre concussion trent won close games, and brought the team from behind. they had a swagger and even though they were beating bad teams closesly, you knew if it was close, we had a chance. this last year every game was losable, and they did.

i'm torn. i'd love for edwards to succeed and get to the playoffs because 10 years without is pathetic. i need playoff football. but i know this team needs a real top notch QB who can withstand a beating. i don't think we had a shot at that guy in this last draft. i think we can get that guy in the next draft.

"That guy" doesn't happen to be in the draft every year though.

I did like Trent's 3 4th quarter comebacks, but like you said, they were against bad teams, basically perennial bottom-dwellers. He'd also melt down and panic in games against other awful teams. I was a huge Trent supporter early. His mechanics are great, he makes his reads faster than anyone I've ever seen (though you also have the spells of freezing in the pocket, where he used to make plays because he'd make them while being hit), he just hasn't been able to put it all together since. When he finally does take a chance in any given game, that's usually the first INT of the day.

[justasportsfan]

This is what I don't agree with you guys. Dink and donk is not the problem. It can work. And it's actually proven that it works in NFL. The problem is adjusting, like when they take your dink and donk away.

From what I understand, Edwards processes info after snap really fast, and makes his decision fast, too. That second part is what DCs in the league are attacking him now. The first 3 seconds. They disguise the defense for the first 3 seconds and it seems to do really well against Edwards (no wonder the 3-4 defense offers more variations).

Gailey may help from the viewpoint that our offense is going to do a lot of disguise according to all the reports; so opposing defense may not have a firm handle on what our top attacking option on each play. But I see this as more from a player development viewpoint. Edwards, when he came into NFL, showed his flashes. Now coaches around the league found holes in his game. It's Edwards' turn - can he overcome that?
trents way of dinking and dunking last few years will not work. That only works if you're playing not to lose or will only take you so far. At some point, you're going to have to make the D PAY when they screw up . A lot of times we dinked and dunked when we could have made them pay.

[jamze132]

If I'm someone who wants the team to win, I don't want my QB passing for 300 yards. That's often a bad sign. Passing yardage is the most overrated stat in football, and that's saying a lot.
Yeah, because Brady and Moss were always losing in the 4th quarter by 20.

[SABURZFAN]

i won't be surprised when the QB pecking order changes between now and September.

[Philagape]

Yeah, because Brady and Moss were always losing in the 4th quarter by 20.

An exception is not a point.

[ParanoidAndroid]

If I'm someone who wants the team to win, I don't want my QB passing for 300 yards. That's often a bad sign. Passing yardage is the most overrated stat in football, and that's saying a lot.

Go look at the list of passing yardage leaders and how many of the top ten were playing for playoff teams. (7 out of ten including 2 through 6) Brees averaged 292ypg and I think his team won the superbowl or something.

Then look at the bottom of that list and notice how many of those guys played for awful teams.

Is that a coincidence?

I would love to see a Buffalo QB consistently able to approach the 300yd mark.

[better days]

"That guy" doesn't happen to be in the draft every year though.

I did like Trent's 3 4th quarter comebacks, but like you said, they were against bad teams, basically perennial bottom-dwellers. He'd also melt down and panic in games against other awful teams. I was a huge Trent supporter early. His mechanics are great, he makes his reads faster than anyone I've ever seen (though you also have the spells of freezing in the pocket, where he used to make plays because he'd make them while being hit), he just hasn't been able to put it all together since. When he finally does take a chance in any given game, that's usually the first INT of the day.

I think the fact that teams now have plenty of film on Trent is his biggest problem. They know his weakness now & how to defend against him.

[Philagape]

Go look at the list of passing yardage leaders and how many of the top ten were playing for playoff teams. (7 out of ten including 2 through 6) Brees averaged 292ypg and I think his team won the superbowl or something.

Then look at the bottom of that list and notice how many of those guys played for awful teams.

Is that a coincidence?

I would love to see a Buffalo QB consistently able to approach the 300yd mark.

Well if Drew Brees and Peyton Manning are doing it, then no problem for Trent Edwards! What was I thinking??

One little caveat to those passing leaders ... they're actually good QBs.

You want the Bills' offense to be based on their three stooges slinging it around?
If a Bills QB reaches 300 yards, is it more likely that he dictated the game with that, or that they're trying to catch up?