Trent Edwards numbers over three season are not bad.

[HHURRICANE]

Trent after 3 seasons:

1) He's completing almost 60% of his passes. 540 out of 909

2) He has only 2 more picks than TDs. 29 TDs 31 Picks.

3) He's averaging 6.2 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating is 73.

Should we really give up on this guy??

[RockStar36]

Yes.

Those are awful numbers.

[HHURRICANE]

Sorry!!!!

I screwed up. Those stats were for Drew Brees after his first 3 seasons!

Edwards numbers are better:

1) He's completing 61.3 of his passes. 508 out of 826.

2) He has only 1 more pick than TDs. 24 TDs 25 picks.

3) He's averaging 6.7 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating is 77.9.

[OpIv37]

Other than the completion percentage, those numbers suck.

[zone]

Nice one.

He got you good RockStar!

[RockStar36]

Edwards numbers are near identical. They are awful. Trent is awful.

[RockStar36]

Numbers also don't tell the whole story, actually watching the player play the game helps. Edwards is scared when he takes the field and plays that way.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Nice Hurricane, I'm not a big Edwards backer but look at happend to Alex Smith. He matured, became a leader and more importantly a better player. Seeing I think Trent is more talented than Alex, I think there's a possibility that Trent can succeed.

[STRONG_BAD]

When Trance has played well - he's played really well. The injuries and the fact he might be a head case are what worries me. Having said that, I'm all for giving him one more year.

[OpIv37]

We're stuck with Trent this year anyway.

My fear is that he does just well enough that the org decides to stick with him next year as well.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Numbers also don't tell the whole story, actually watching the player play the game helps. Edwards is scared when he takes the field and plays that way.

I think a big part of the reason Edwards was scared to throw deep was cause Jauron philosophy. Jauren preached to this to play it safe, that's the last thing you want your qb to do.

[zone]

Numbers also don't tell the whole story, actually watching the player play the game helps. Edwards is scared when he takes the field and plays that way.
Your totally right, and if you watched Brees his first 3 years he was not good at all. Why do you think they drafted Rivers?

[RockStar36]

Edwards hasn't been the same since his injury.

He played well before that injury but were any of those games against quality teams?

[OpIv37]

I think a big part of the reason Edwards was scared to throw deep was cause Jauron philosophy. Jauren preached to this to play it safe, that's the last thing you want your qb to do.

The last thing you want to do as a QB is have either a "play it safe" mentality or a "gunslinger" mentality. If you have a gunslinger mentality, you throw a playoff game away on 3rd and 3 trying to get an extra 5 yards rather than just running for the first down. If you have the "play it safe" mentality, then you end up with 6.7 yards per completion like Trent.

A QB has to be smart enough to allow the specific situation in the game being played to determine his aggressiveness. Don't play it safe when it's 2nd and 15 and you're down by 2 scores late in the 3rd, and don't be a gunslinger on a busted play in the first quarter on first down.

[ddaryl]

Yes.

Those are awful numbers.

for a 2 year partial starter with Dick Jauron as a head coach ???


those numbers are not bad...


Trent will get another chance with a new HC who actually understand the Offense side of the ball....


will it work out ????? but we will see Trent to start the season

[HHURRICANE]

Obvioulsy I had a little fun with this. Sorry that Rockstar bit so hard on the bait!!

I'm certainly not saying that Edwards is Drew Brees but nobody can say that Edwards hasn't had to deal with a bad o-line, injuries, a weak receiving corp., two terrible OCs, and a crappy head coach.

[DraftBoy]

Big difference is their heads. Trent's been concussed twice now already? Brees hasn't at all and Brees was a leader even with SD, something Trent has never been for us.

Stats are nice but they only tell you part of the story. Brees's numbers sucked in SD, even he admits to that.

[Mahdi]

Just because Trent's numbers are comparable to those of Brees it doesn't mean they are comparable to each other as QBs. Trent does not have the delivery and the skills Brees has.

[trapezeus]

how many drew brees stories are there out there...where they kind of seem like they are never going to get it after 3 years, struggle in the early part of 4 and then just turn it on and play lights out?

I'm guessing much less than guys who seem like they will never get it and they never do.

Obviously if edwards is the next brees that would be awesome. but brees had a line and the best running back from 2000-2008 in the NFL taking pressure off him and having a receiver or two who could make plays.

our big time Wr specializes in one thing and one thing only and apparently gets taken out by double teams...everyone else is a rookie or trash. so it's hard to turn it on in year 4 for trent.

Like Op said, if he plays just well enough to think he's salvageable, that will be a major blow for this team. if ever there was a year to blow and blow hard to get a top pick in a loaded draft, this would be it....and they'd keep the same spot if there was alockout. so two years of top picks would do wonders for this team.

[HHURRICANE]

We're stuck with Trent this year anyway.

My fear is that he does just well enough that the org decides to stick with him next year as well.

This logic is a little flawed. If he plays well you wouldn't want to keep him?

I think Maybin sucks but if all of a sudden he gets 13 sacks this year does that mean I don't want him back next year?

Edwards numbers are not terrible. If he has a decent year this year his career stats will be above average.

Most guys that have more TDs than Ints and complete over 60% of their passes usually stay in the league.

[Philagape]

This is one reason why numbers cannot be trusted. There's so much that they don't tell you. Especially a three-year summary, which doesn't account for the head injuries.
Everything good that Edwards did before The Hit doesn't matter now. He's changed. The promising QB that played so well in the clutch is gone, with no way to know if he'll ever come back. He cannot be trusted, but the Bills may have no choice. Fitzpatrick may still be the best they have, which is depressing.

And btw, he DID play well in the clutch before The Hit, no matter which teams it was against. He made plays that weren't easy under any circumstances. Particularly against the Raiders and Jags in 08, the pass rush was bearing down on him when he made his best plays.

[OpIv37]

This logic is a little flawed. If he plays well you wouldn't want to keep him?

I think Maybin sucks but if all of a sudden he gets 13 sacks this year does that mean I don't want him back next year?

Edwards numbers are not terrible. If he has a decent year this year his career stats will be above average.

Most guys that have more TDs than Ints and complete over 60% of their passes usually stay in the league.

I'm not talking about him throwing for 20 TD's and 6 INTs and 3000 yards.

I'm talking about him throwing 12 TD's and 11 INT's and 2200 yards. It's not really good, but it's not really bad enough to dump him either- and then we're stuck with mediocrity next year too.

[wmoz11]

Big difference is their heads. Trent's been concussed twice now already? Brees hasn't at all and Brees was a leader even with SD, something Trent has never been for us.

Stats are nice but they only tell you part of the story. Brees's numbers sucked in SD, even he admits to that.

And Brees had a destroyed shoulder, but you don't need one of those to play QB, do you?

How can you presume to know what kind of leader Trent has been? He was a captain and you're certainly not in the locker room.

[ddaryl]

I'm not talking about him throwing for 20 TD's and 6 INTs and 3000 yards.

I'm talking about him throwing 12 TD's and 11 INT's and 2200 yards. It's not really good, but it's not really bad enough to dump him either- and then we're stuck with mediocrity next year too.


I'm not worried about this at all.

Unless Trent fires 3500 +yards and a 2:1 TD to INT ratio with about 20 TD's we're drafting a top QB in 2011.

If trent can do that then it would prove Jauron was turly the problem. If he can't hit numbers like that it proves we need to draft a 1st rd QB in 2011.

[RockStar36]

And Brees had a destroyed shoulder, but you don't need one of those to play QB, do you?

How can you presume to know what kind of leader Trent has been? He was a captain and you're certainly not in the locker room.

Did Brees destroy his shoulder after his 3rd year or his 5th?

[wmoz11]

Did Brees destroy his shoulder after his 3rd year or his 5th?

I don't really care when it was. Just that he came back to be a great QB after an injury. It is possible, though definitely not the norm.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm not talking about him throwing for 20 TD's and 6 INTs and 3000 yards.

I'm talking about him throwing 12 TD's and 11 INT's and 2200 yards. It's not really good, but it's not really bad enough to dump him either- and then we're stuck with mediocrity next year too.


Those stats will not keep him on the roster.

However, 18 tds and 10 Ints with 3000 yards probably would get him a new contract here.

[HHURRICANE]

People want to blame the injury for Trent's regression but people forget that he started struggling after we had injuries on the line and we lost Josh Reed for a bunch of games. That's when he started really strugggling in '08.

2009 was a cluster. Lynch get's suspended for 4 games and never returns to form. The OC is changed a week before the season starts which means we are basically playing a dumbed down offense that every D can tee off on. All with the worst o-line in the league.

[DraftBoy]

And Brees had a destroyed shoulder, but you don't need one of those to play QB, do you?

How can you presume to know what kind of leader Trent has been? He was a captain and you're certainly not in the locker room.

Your first point is a fallacy because Brees proved his shoulder to be fine. Trent has had opportunities to prove after his concusion to be fine, and he has thus failed to do so.

Because I watch the games and I know what Im looking for him to do in terms of on the sidelines and in interviews and he doesn't do it. Getting a C on your jersey means very little.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Other than the completion percentage, those numbers suck.
Sure but way better than the other 2 scrubs we have.

[Michael82]

Sorry!!!!

I screwed up. Those stats were for Drew Brees after his first 3 seasons!

Edwards numbers are better:

1) He's completing 61.3 of his passes. 508 out of 826.

2) He has only 1 more pick than TDs. 24 TDs 25 picks.

3) He's averaging 6.7 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating is 77.9.

61 percent of his passes is good, but not if most of them are 5 yards or less.

He has 1 more pick than TDs, but that's a sign that he doesn't have the balls to stretch the field and throw it up there. 24 TDs in 3 seasons is pathetic too!

6.7 yards a pass? That's because he's consistantly hitting 5-10 yard passes...nothing higher and nothing lower. :ill:

77.9 QB Rating? What a Pro Bowler! :ill: :puke:

Don't forget about all his concussions and injury proneness that Drew Brees didn't have. :blahblah:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Your first point is a fallacy because Brees proved his shoulder to be fine. Trent has had opportunities to prove after his concusion to be fine, and he has thus failed to do so.

Because I watch the games and I know what Im looking for him to do in terms of on the sidelines and in interviews and he doesn't do it. Getting a C on your jersey means very little.
How do you see what he does on the sidelines on Television?

[THATHURMANATOR]

61 percent of his passes is good, but not if most of them are 5 yards or less.

He has 1 more pick than TDs, but that's a sign that he doesn't have the balls to stretch the field and throw it up there. 24 TDs in 3 seasons is pathetic too!

6.7 yards a pass? That's because he's consistantly hitting 5-10 yard passes...nothing higher and nothing lower. :ill:

77.9 QB Rating? What a Pro Bowler! :ill: :puke:

Don't forget about all his concussions and injury proneness that Drew Brees didn't have. :blahblah:
I don't disagree Mike but who do you want to play QB? Fitz sucks worse and Brohm doesn't excite me AT ALL.

[RockStar36]

I don't disagree Mike but who do you want to play QB? Fitz sucks worse and Brohm doesn't excite me AT ALL.

Brohm hasn't had an opportunity to excite you. You know what Fitz and Edwards bring to the table, why not at least see what Brohm brings before making that decision?

[Philagape]

People want to blame the injury for Trent's regression but people forget that he started struggling after we had injuries on the line and we lost Josh Reed for a bunch of games. That's when he started really strugggling in '08.

2009 was a cluster. Lynch get's suspended for 4 games and never returns to form. The OC is changed a week before the season starts which means we are basically playing a dumbed down offense that every D can tee off on. All with the worst o-line in the league.

Whatever else anyone on the team did, Edwards played poorly. In the things that he alone does. He threw bad passes, he made bad decisions, he fell to pieces under adversity. (after The Hit)
I've said it for years .... if a QB needs everything else around him to go right for him to play well, then he's worthless. A good QB makes his teammates look better.

[HHURRICANE]

I don't disagree Mike but who do you want to play QB? Fitz sucks worse and Brohm doesn't excite me AT ALL.

He wants Brohm because he hasn't proved how bad he sucks in limited action. We need to see alot of suckiness!

[HHURRICANE]

Whatever else anyone on the team did, Edwards played poorly. In the things that he alone does. He threw bad passes, he made bad decisions, he fell to pieces under adversity. (after The Hit)
I've said it for years .... if a QB needs everything else around him to go right for him to play well, then he's worthless. A good QB makes his teammates look better.

The thing is that I don't ever remember a QB playing well on a crappy team.

Can you name me some?

[THATHURMANATOR]

He wants Brohm because he hasn't proved how bad he sucks in limited action. We need to see alot of suckiness!
Oh he needs to see him suck in actual games more than just the Atlanta game last year?

[HHURRICANE]

Oh he needs to see him suck in actual games more than just the Atlanta game last year?

Don't worry Brohm will suck in pre-season. What I am disappointed about is that Levi Brown has looked like an int machine in OTAs.

[RockStar36]

Oh he needs to see him suck in actual games more than just the Atlanta game last year?

Those were surely ideal circumstances for Brohm.

[Philagape]

The thing is that I don't ever remember a QB playing well on a crappy team.

Can you name me some?

Even on a crappy thing, there are still things the QB alone does.
You look at the quality of his throws; where the ball goes when it leaves his arm.
The decision-making ... even on a crappy team, there are decisions the QB alone makes, which may not be better than choosing between a sack or throwing it away.
And you weigh those things under adverse circumstances.

Unfortunately, none of that means anything to fans who just look at numbers on a screen and think that's analysis.

[HHURRICANE]

Even on a crappy thing, there are still things the QB alone does.
You look at the quality of his throws; where the ball goes when it leaves his arm.
The decision-making ... even on a crappy team, there are decisions the QB alone makes, which may not be better than choosing between a sack or throwing it away.
And you weigh those things under adverse circumstances.

Unfortunately, none of that means anything to fans who just look at numbers on a screen and think that's analysis.

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

[madness]

This is definitely Trent's last shot and there's a chance he could surprise us (I wouldn't suggest holding your breath though). His confidence has always went hand in hand with his play and I haven't seen him this confident since before "the hit" . He also developed a ton of bad habits between playing for worthless OC's and running for his life. If Gailey can correct these and build the offense around him, Trent will have almost every chance to succeed. (Even though the OL still has the big question mark, I'm expecting Gailey and his staff to help improve protection schemes this year)

Yes, that means we will probably be seeing a lot of checkdowns since our RB core seem to be the strength of our offense as well as the possibility of Shawn Nelson stepping up his game factored in. It's not necessarily a bad thing as long as it opens up opportunities down field AND Trent takes advantages of them. As much as Buffalo fans hate the check down, there are some very good QB's in the league who started their career with the same reputation.

At this point nobody is expecting him to take this team and put it on his shoulders but if he can become the game manager Gailey expects him to be, this offense finally might start rolling.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Sorry!!!!

I screwed up. Those stats were for Drew Brees after his first 3 seasons!

Edwards numbers are better:

1) He's completing 61.3 of his passes. 508 out of 826.

2) He has only 1 more pick than TDs. 24 TDs 25 picks.

3) He's averaging 6.7 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating is 77.9.Here are the stats of another former Bill's 1st 3 years...

1) He completed 58.0% of his passes. 384 out of 662.

2) He had 4 more TDs than picks. 27 TDs 23 picks.

3) He averaged 6.7 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating was 77.4.

He got run outta town on a rail.

[ddaryl]

there wasn't a singleQB on our roster that had confidence behind our OL last year and coaching philosophy. Fitz might have tried to stretch the field more often, but he didn't do much else right.

Brohm never got a good rythm started in his few attempts.

Brown is a rookie and will not start no matter what...

and the one common denominator for our crappy QB play has been coaching..

I'll say it again.... Let Gailey have a chance at resurecting the QB position....

but the bottomline is Edwards is thebest QB on this roster at this momnet and that isn't even debateable...

wetherthat works out needs to be seen, but that is the fact we are dealing with

[HHURRICANE]

Here are the stats of another former Bill's 1st 3 years...

1) He completed 58.0% of his passes. 384 out of 662.

2) He had 4 more TDs than picks. 27 TDs 23 picks.

3) He averaged 6.7 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating was 77.4.

He got run outta town on a rail.

Yep, it go either way.

[Michael82]

Brohm hasn't had an opportunity to excite you. You know what Fitz and Edwards bring to the table, why not at least see what Brohm brings before making that decision?
EXACTLY! :hi5:

[HHURRICANE]

EXACTLY! :hi5:

I like Mikey!!!

Mikey, If Brohm doesn't win the job will you think it wasn't a fair competition?

[Michael82]

but the bottomline is Edwards is thebest QB on this roster at this momnet and that isn't even debateable...

wetherthat works out needs to be seen, but that is the fact we are dealing with

Sorry, but we haven't seen Brian Brohm get a chance to show what he can do after having the same opportunity as Edwards and Fitzpatrick to know the playbook and his players. Until we do, I will disagree completely with this! Edwards is the better one between him and Fitzpatrick, but that's because Fitzpatrick sucks...however, we don't know what Brohm can do when given a chance. Oh and if Edwards is so good, then why did Fitzpatrick look better at times and was able to make the slants and more passes to his WR, like that Jets game that Edwards wouldn't dream of?

[Michael82]

I like Mikey!!!

Mikey, If Brohm doesn't win the job will you think it wasn't a fair competition?
If I see the QBs at camp and Edwards looks horrible, dumping off all the time and throwing wobbly ducks, well Brohm does better...I will think it wasn't a fair competition.

However, if they both look bad or Edwards looks better, then it was a fair competition. We just have ****ty QBs and I will be much more confident that the team will finally draft someone like Locker.

[sdbillsfan2]

What! Every line he's ever played behind and every coach he had( going back to HS ) must have been useless be cause this guy can stay off his back long enough to finish a season ?
I'd like to have a Qb that can actually start AND finish a season . Our chances of winning more games will depend on continuity at ALL positions. He has a problem staying healthy . How can this be good?

Personally I think he's a loser.. but we're stuck with him for now!

[trapezeus]

but mikey, brohm got cut by a team that has developed 2 decent QB's. they spent a second round pick on him and put him on the practice squad. There is something fundamentally not there for him. He's a potential losman. A guy who was athletic to get it done at lower levels, but not smart enough to get through in the NFL.

if you step back from the excitement of gettin ghim last year, it doesn't look like he's going to blossom.

The wildcard in all this is "how much is chan gailey really the secret genius that he's being billed as." He's helped crap qb's before get better. Can he do it now. He's got 3 proven crapsters.

[Philagape]

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

Because your definition of "playing well" is undoubtedly different than mine.

Mine doesn't just involve numbers on a screen, so there's no way I can prove it on a message board.

[Philagape]

but the bottomline is Edwards is thebest QB on this roster at this momnet and that isn't even debateable...

wetherthat works out needs to be seen, but that is the fact we are dealing with

What changed in Edwards since the end of last season and "this moment"? Because the last time live ball was being played, he certainly was not the best QB on the roster.
And don't answer with coaching ... I asked IN EDWARDS.

[BillsWin]

Trent has one last chance. I may not think he deserves it, but I would be a flip flopping douche if I didn't at least admit that he had a rough go of it with the o-line, system and coaching staff.

All I hope is that he is either the real deal, or he completely bottoms out.

As OP said above, my worst fear is that he will play average and just well enough that we, once again, decide not to address the QB situation with real talent.

[Philagape]

Trent has one last chance. I may not think he deserves it, but I would be a flip flopping douche if I didn't at least admit that he had a rough go of it with the o-line, system and coaching staff.

All I hope is that he is either the real deal, or he completely bottoms out.

As OP said above, my worst fear is that he will play average and just well enough that we, once again, decide not to address the QB situation with real talent.

If the Bills are drafting early enough to get "real talent" at QB, they're not going to say, "Oh that's ok, we don't need him, we have Trent Edwards."
If a QB is there who's at the top of their board, they'll take him. Having Jackson didn't stop them from taking Spiller.

[Michael82]

but mikey, brohm got cut by a team that has developed 2 decent QB's. they spent a second round pick on him and put him on the practice squad. There is something fundamentally not there for him. He's a potential losman. A guy who was athletic to get it done at lower levels, but not smart enough to get through in the NFL.

if you step back from the excitement of gettin ghim last year, it doesn't look like he's going to blossom.

The wildcard in all this is "how much is chan gailey really the secret genius that he's being billed as." He's helped crap qb's before get better. Can he do it now. He's got 3 proven crapsters.
They drafted both Brohm and Flynn in the same year. They had a competition and kept the one who showed the most. Sure he was a 2nd round pick, but what if Matt Flynn was a better QB? And as for them putting Brohm on the practice squad...that doesn't mean anything either. Don't the Packers like to just stick with 2 QBs on their active roster usually?

[HHURRICANE]

Because your definition of "playing well" is undoubtedly different than mine.

Mine doesn't just involve numbers on a screen, so there's no way I can prove it on a message board.

I'm not trying to be confrontational with you. I'm just asking if you can think of a QB that played well on a bad team. I can't think of one.

I can name several bad QBs that played well on good teams.

[HHURRICANE]

They drafted both Brohm and Flynn in the same year. They had a competition and kept the one who showed the most. Sure he was a 2nd round pick, but what if Matt Flynn was a better QB? And as for them putting Brohm on the practice squad...that doesn't mean anything either. Don't the Packers like to just stick with 2 QBs on their active roster usually?

Mike, he was terrible in the pre-season. To be honest I watched him here in Atlanta and he was awful.

If he has super buried potential it better show up soon because I have seen absolutely nothing that tells me otherwise.

[Philagape]

I'm not trying to be confrontational with you. I'm just asking if you can think of a QB that played well on a bad team. I can't think of one.

I can name several bad QBs that played well on good teams.

Nor am I. I'm just saying why I didn't answer the question. I can't discuss "playing well" if you think playing well is all about numbers. It's something that can be discerned only through observation, and I don't watch most NFL games from start to finish.

[tat2dmike77]

Ever since he got a concussion in AZ he (Edwards) has played like a scared little girl.

Yeah one more INT than TD oh thats not bad. Are you reading what you type? You think those numbers are ok. Edwards sucks plain and simple just because Bill Walsh said something good about him means nothing.

[trapezeus]

They drafted both Brohm and Flynn in the same year. They had a competition and kept the one who showed the most. Sure he was a 2nd round pick, but what if Matt Flynn was a better QB? And as for them putting Brohm on the practice squad...that doesn't mean anything either. Don't the Packers like to just stick with 2 QBs on their active roster usually?


but that's my point. a #2 should beat out a number 7 and he didn't. coaching was the same. they already had an established starter to learn from, and he didn't make that jump.

Something is fundamentally wrong with how he is approaching the pro game. now gailey has to prove he is the magic man.

[JCBills]

Oh he needs to see him suck in actual games more than just the Atlanta game last year?

Again, 5 weeks on the team, 1 week throwing to the starters. Really fair grounds for assessment.

[better days]

Sorry!!!!

I screwed up. Those stats were for Drew Brees after his first 3 seasons!

Edwards numbers are better:

1) He's completing 61.3 of his passes. 508 out of 826.

2) He has only 1 more pick than TDs. 24 TDs 25 picks.

3) He's averaging 6.7 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating is 77.9.

Yes, you screwed up. All you proved by that is Brees sucked almost as bad as Trent his 1st 3 years. Since when is 24 TD's better than 29 TD's the ONLY stat that really matters. I have said it before, but I will say it again Trent has never had as good a season as JP Losman did in 06. He SUCKS & will be gone after this year.

[Mike]

How would you feel if Trent, Brohm, etc did exactly what you expected them to do: be mediocre and the Bills Passed on one of the Top QB Prospects in next years draft?

1) would you be Angry? Frustrated? at the Team
or
2) would you support the Team and argue that they did the right thing because there was no-one good enough to draft at their spot, and that the guy might have been a bust anyway? or they may find the right QB some other way? etc...

How would you feel if they Passed on one of the elite QB Prospects in a loaded draft after our QB perform in a mediocre manner?

[better days]

How would you feel if Trent, Brohm, etc did exactly what you expected them to do: be mediocre and the Bills Passed on one of the Top QB Prospects in next years draft?

1) would you be Angry? Frustrated? at the Team
or
2) would you support the Team and argue that they did the right thing because there was no-one good enough to draft at their spot, and that the guy might have been a bust anyway? or they may find the right QB some other way? etc...

How would you feel if they Passed on one of the elite QB Prospects in a loaded draft after our QB perform in a mediocre manner?

You mean like St Louis did with Matt Ryan? I would be PIZZED, ANGRY & FRUSTRATED!!!

[Philagape]

Yes, you screwed up. All you proved by that is Brees sucked almost as bad as Trent his 1st 3 years. Since when is 24 TD's better than 29 TD's the ONLY stat that really matters. I have said it before, but I will say it again Trent has never had as good a season as JP Losman did in 06. He SUCKS & will be gone after this year.

Trent's 08 was better, but it doesn't matter now

[Joe Fo Sho]

Trent after 3 seasons:

1) He's completing almost 60% of his passes. 540 out of 909

2) He has only 2 more picks than TDs. 29 TDs 31 Picks.

3) He's averaging 6.2 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating is 73.

Should we really give up on this guy??


But at least Brees tried. Edwards is boring.

[better days]

Trent's 08 was better, but it doesn't matter now

You are wrong. In 06 JP threw 19 TD's. In 08 Trent threw 11 TD's. The only reason it matters is to show Trent has never been better than JP which is not saying much.

[Philagape]

You are wrong. In 06 JP threw 19 TD's. In 08 Trent threw 11 TD's. The only reason it matters is to show Trent has never been better than JP which is not saying much.

Sigh ... more numbers on a screen. When you want to actually discuss who was better, let me know.

[billz83]

trent sucks therez no other way to say it..if u got TO and lee evans and cant get the ball to them then thas pathetic..he constantly checked down to play it safe and lose the game..i hope these coaches can get him to become a winner but most fans dont see this happening.

[better days]

Sigh ... more numbers on a screen. When you want to actually discuss who was better, let me know.

TD's are the only numbers that matter when it comes to QB's. How you can think a QB that throws a paltry 11 TD's is better than a QB that threw almost twice as many is beyond me.

11 TD's is far less than 1 TD per game. There is no team in the NFL that can win with that kind of pathetic production from the QB.

[Philagape]

There is no team in the NFL that can win with that kind of pathetic production from the QB.

Except the Bills, who went 7-5 in Trent's full games that year ... :oops:

[Michael82]

Except the Bills, who went 7-5 in Trent's full games that year ... :oops:
against how many ****ty teams? :yawn:

[Philagape]

against how many ****ty teams? :yawn:

You mean as opposed to stalwarts like the Houston Texans that JP needed to play well against?

[Dr. Lecter]

They drafted both Brohm and Flynn in the same year. They had a competition and kept the one who showed the most. Sure he was a 2nd round pick, but what if Matt Flynn was a better QB? And as for them putting Brohm on the practice squad...that doesn't mean anything either. Don't the Packers like to just stick with 2 QBs on their active roster usually?


Think about this logically - they have a 2nd round pick invested in the guy. They have a significant signing bonus invested in the guy.

After all of that, they would rather keep two QBs on the roster and put him on the PS instead of him replacing the 7th WR or 6th RB or 11th OL or 12th DB or 5th TE or whatever they had extra.

So to say them putting on the PS does not mean anything is putting on blinders.

[feldspar]

We're stuck with Trent this year anyway.

My fear is that he does just well enough that the org decides to stick with him next year as well.

This organization stuck with Joe Ferguson for about 12 years. He was NOT a good QB.

[better days]

Except the Bills, who went 7-5 in Trent's full games that year ... :oops:

A game is 60 min long, ALL games count, even the ones Trent can't finish or start. Yeah go ahead & manipulate stats. The fact is Trent beat CRAPPY teams only. He has never won against a good team yet.

[Philagape]

A game is 60 min long, ALL games count, even the ones Trent can't finish or start. Yeah go ahead & manipulate stats. The fact is Trent beat CRAPPY teams only. He has never won against a good team yet.

So you count games in which Trent didn't or hardly play against him ... okaaayyy. And I'm the one manipulating stats :funny:
Beating crappy teams is the story of JP's career also, so that cancels out. The difference is, he lost more games because of his crap.

[Dr. Lecter]

This organization stuck with Joe Ferguson for about 12 years. He was NOT a good QB.


He was a pretty damn good QB.

[better days]

So you count games in which Trent didn't or hardly play against him ... okaaayyy. And I'm the one manipulating stats :funny:
Beating crappy teams is the story of JP's career also, so that cancels out. The difference is, he lost more games because of his crap.

Well, I remember the Jets game the Bills were losing when JP came in for an injured Trent & won the game. The Trent fans wanted to give Trent credit for winning that game because he was the starter.

There are 16 games in a season (so far), ALL GAMES count. Even if you take away the two games Trent did not play in in 08, he still did not put up 1 TD per game. Take away the 2 games Trent went out injured & he STILL did not put up 1 TD per game.

NO team in the NFL can win a 16 game season with a QB that can't even put up 1 TD per game.

[Philagape]

Well, I remember the Jets game the Bills were losing when JP came in for an injured Trent & won the game. The Trent fans wanted to give Trent credit for winning that game because he was the starter.

I didn't. I've always given credit to whoever starts the bulk of the game. (and Evans deserves the main credit against the Jets for turning a sure interception into a TD)


There are 16 games in a season (so far), ALL GAMES count. Even if you take away the two games Trent did not play in in 08, he still did not put up 1 TD per game.

A QB's job is to lead the offense on scoring drives. Who finishes the drive is a lot less relevant.
You want numbers?
In 2008 the Bills' offense averaged 20.1 points a game in the games Trent played (I counted the 49ers game as half a game for him. Anyone who wants to count Arizona under Trent is just being a JPUFL troll).
In 2006, with JPUFL taking every snap, the offense averaged 16.6 points.
That's WAY more telling than who happened to get the finishers.

[better days]

I didn't. I've always given credit to whoever starts the bulk of the game. (and Evans deserves the main credit against the Jets for turning a sure interception into a TD)

Show me a team with a QB that puts up less than 1 TD PASS per game & I will show you a losing team.



A QB's job is to lead the offense on scoring drives. Who finishes the drive is a lot less relevant.
You want numbers?
In 2008 the Bills' offense averaged 20.1 points a game in the games Trent played (I counted the 49ers game as half a game for him. Anyone who wants to count Arizona under Trent is just being a JPUFL troll).
In 2006, with JPUFL taking every snap, the offense averaged 16.6 points.
That's WAY more telling than who happened to get the finishers.

Way to manipulat stats count part of one game, but not the other? The teams Trent won against were the dreggs of the NFL.

If you love Trent & his 1 TD per game feel free to follow him wherever he lands after this year.

[Philagape]

Way to manipulat stats count part of one game, but not the other? The teams Trent won against were the dreggs of the NFL.

San Diego? Denver? Dreggs?? :rofl:
And counting the Arizona game wouldn't make a dent in my point, so feel free :up:


If you love Trent & his 1 TD per game feel free to follow him wherever he lands after this year.

The Trent I'm talking about is the Old Trent, pre-Hit. He's a useless coward now.

Don't worry, when I want to talk fantasy football, you're my man, BD!

[better days]

San Diego? Denver? Dreggs?? :rofl:
And counting the Arizona game wouldn't make a dent in my point, so feel free :up:



The Trent I'm talking about is the Old Trent, pre-Hit. He's a useless coward now.

Don't worry, when I want to talk fantasy football, you're my man, BD!

Yes Denver was a Dregg, one of the worst defenses in the NFL. S.D about the best team Trent has beaten was 8-8 yeah that is a great team.

[Philagape]

Yes Denver was a Dregg, one of the worst defenses in the NFL. S.D about the best team Trent has beaten was 8-8 yeah that is a great team.

Your story changes direction more than a JPUFL pass.
"Can't win with those stats!" um, he did.
"Dreggs!" to "yeah that is a great team."

You still haven't begun to talk about how the QBs actually played. Still stuck on fantasy.

[HHURRICANE]

Well, I remember the Jets game the Bills were losing when JP came in for an injured Trent & won the game. The Trent fans wanted to give Trent credit for winning that game because he was the starter.

There are 16 games in a season (so far), ALL GAMES count. Even if you take away the two games Trent did not play in in 08, he still did not put up 1 TD per game. Take away the 2 games Trent went out injured & he STILL did not put up 1 TD per game.

NO team in the NFL can win a 16 game season with a QB that can't even put up 1 TD per game.

You did not just give credit to Losman for winning that Jets game. He threw a frickin duck that Evans was lucky enough to pull fron 2 defenders. That was one of the worst throws ever with a super lucky result. Had Edwards played in the second half who's to say that we wouldn't have even needed a last gasp play to win the game?

[better days]

Your story changes direction more than a JPUFL pass.
"Can't win with those stats!" um, he did.
"Dreggs!" to "yeah that is a great team."

You still haven't begun to talk about how the QBs actually played. Still stuck on fantasy.

WOW, you don't know sarcasm when you read it. An 8-8 team is NOT GREAT. The Bills did not win with those stats they were 7-9. And while we are at it Denver was so bad Shannahan got fired at the end of that year.

[better days]

You did not just give credit to Losman for winning that Jets game. He threw a frickin duck that Evans was lucky enough to pull fron 2 defenders. That was one of the worst throws ever with a super lucky result. Had Edwards played in the second half who's to say that we wouldn't have even needed a last gasp play to win the game?

JP put the ball up & trusted his receiver to make a play, something Trent refuses to do.

[HHURRICANE]

JP put the ball up & trusted his receiver to make a play, something Trent refuses to do.

Now you are in dream land. That play was more about 2 Jets defenders blowing that play than Losman doing anything. I'll be the first to say that Losman got some bad breaks here but he also made his share of terrible plays especially when his career was on the line.

[feldspar]

He was a pretty damn good QB.

Sorry, but IMO Fergy dragged this team down for over a decade.

[Philagape]

WOW, you don't know sarcasm when you read it. An 8-8 team is NOT GREAT. The Bills did not win with those stats they were 7-9. And while we are at it Denver was so bad Shannahan got fired at the end of that year.

I apparently know sarcasm better than you since you didn't get it in my post quoting your own words AND obvious tone. :funny:

You're counting games Edwards didn't even play in against him. You are incapable of discussing this subject intelligently. Welcome to ignore, JPUFL troll. They aren't extinct after all.

[SABURZFAN]

Yes, you screwed up. All you proved by that is Brees sucked almost as bad as Trent his 1st 3 years. Since when is 24 TD's better than 29 TD's the ONLY stat that really matters. I have said it before, but I will say it again Trent has never had as good a season as JP Losman did in 06. He SUCKS & will be gone after this year.


Edwards never faced the prevent defense as many times as Lossman did in 06either. anybody can pad their stats when you're constantly losing like Lossman did.

[SABURZFAN]

Here are the stats of another former Bill's 1st 3 years...

1) He completed 58.0% of his passes. 384 out of 662.

2) He had 4 more TDs than picks. 27 TDs 23 picks.

3) He averaged 6.7 yards a pass.

4) His QB rating was 77.4.

He got run outta town on a rail.


10-11 wins in 4 years as a starter will get you that ticket every time.

[SABURZFAN]

Way to manipulat stats count part of one game, but not the other? The teams Trent won against were the dreggs of the NFL.

If you love Trent & his 1 TD per game feel free to follow him wherever he lands after this year.


way to make up excuses and failing in your attempt to tarnish Edwards' win. while you and the Lickers go about manipulating numbers in Lossmans favor, the ONLY thing you can't manipulate is that the Bills have won more games with Edwards as a starter than they did when your beloved Lossman did.

[Philagape]

I'm sorry, I can't get over this .... Pinning JPUFL's losses on Trent? WTF?
I've seen some dumb arguments from JPUFL fans before (it's pretty much a redundancy), but never anything like this.
I guess a JPUFL fan would want to erase the fact that the Bills lost all four games in which JPUFL stepped on the field in 08, not a coincidence.
What's next, assigning all of JPUFL's losses in 2006 to Kelly Holcomb?? :brilliant:

[better days]

I'm sorry, I can't get over this .... Pinning JPUFL's losses on Trent? WTF?
I've seen some dumb arguments from JPUFL fans before (it's pretty much a redundancy), but never anything like this.
I guess a JPUFL fan would want to erase the fact that the Bills lost all four games in which JPUFL stepped on the field in 08, not a coincidence.
What's next, assigning all of JPUFL's losses in 2006 to Kelly Holcomb?? :brilliant:

As if Trent would have won ANY of those 4 Games. Keep Dreaming.

[better days]

Now you are in dream land. That play was more about 2 Jets defenders blowing that play than Losman doing anything. I'll be the first to say that Losman got some bad breaks here but he also made his share of terrible plays especially when his career was on the line.

Trent would never have put the ball up for his receiver to make that play. Favre & many other great QB's have won games with similar passes.

[SABURZFAN]

:chuckle:


is that you, yordad?

[Mr. Pink]

Trent = bad
JP = worse

Neither are NFL caliber QBs.

It's as simple as that.

And Losman got no bad breaks here...he just didn't have the football IQ or mental acumen to succeed.