Brohm Says He's Ready

[JCBills]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100705/SPORTS02/7050362/1002/sports/Former+Louisville+football+QB+Brian+Brohm+competes+for+Bills++starting+job


"I feel like I can fully compete for this starting job. I feel like I'm ready to take charge out there. We'll see what happens. But I feel like I'm at a position where I'll be able to put my best foot forward and make a legitimate run at the starting job."
:jam:

[mikemac2001]

he is the only QB that gives me hope on the roster....

[feldspar]

Not like everybody else in the NFL and some guys out it wouldn't say the same thing. If you don't FEEL ready, you shouldn't be in the NFL in the first place. If you don't SAY that you feel you are ready, you WON'T be in the NFL. In other words, and with all due respect, this really means nothing. What matters is that he PROVES that he is ready and produced on the field. Talk is cheap. We always hear the most positive things in the offseason, and then the whole house of cards falls down when things play out.

Gotta admit that I'd be more excited to see Brohm win the job than anyone else. Hopefully, if that happens, he does well...needless to say. If anyone else wins the job and doesn't light it up, people will be screaming for Brohm all year. you can count on that, even though he hasn't proven a thing in the NFL yet.

[trapezeus]

didn't he say this last year when we got him? didn't he say this before his start in atlanta?

i'm not anti-brohm, but i'm tired of these articles from bills players. i would rather see a not available for comment article and then outstanding performance.

[mikemac2001]

didn't he say this last year when we got him? didn't he say this before his start in atlanta?

i'm not anti-brohm, but i'm tired of these articles from bills players. i would rather see a not available for comment article and then outstanding performance.

he might have been ready speed wise for the atlanta game but we all know he did not know the playbook, he had 1 week to learn it give the guy a break on that game.

[trapezeus]

i'm not saying brohm can't win it, but we've been reading this articles for years, and no one has meaningfully stepped up to the plate and made the fan's desires their desires.

I really do have my fingeres crossed that gailey has everyone up to speed and that we make a ridiculous run that no one saw coming.

[JCBills]

Not like everybody else in the NFL and some guys out it wouldn't say the same thing. If you don't FEEL ready, you shouldn't be in the NFL in the first place. If you don't SAY that you feel you are ready, you WON'T be in the NFL. In other words, and with all due respect, this really means nothing. What matters is that he PROVES that he is ready and produced on the field. Talk is cheap. We always hear the most positive things in the offseason, and then the whole house of cards falls down when things play out.

Gotta admit that I'd be more excited to see Brohm win the job than anyone else. Hopefully, if that happens, he does well...needless to say. If anyone else wins the job and doesn't light it up, people will be screaming for Brohm all year. you can count on that, even though he hasn't proven a thing in the NFL yet.

It's just an offseason nothing-to-talk-about article. Yeah, it doesn't say much, but he recognizes he needed time to adjust like most QBs do, and he's working hard to be successful. Good to know I guess haha.

[JCBills]

didn't he say this last year when we got him? didn't he say this before his start in atlanta?

i'm not anti-brohm, but i'm tired of these articles from bills players. i would rather see a not available for comment article and then outstanding performance.

Someone gave him an interview then? I don't think any QB would be 100% ready being on a team for 5 weeks.

[Beebe's Kid]

I have a sister's cousin's baby daddy uncle twice removed that works at the Courier Journal, and it appears we have, once again, been given the Kool-Aid.

Apparently there was more to this article than was printed, which there always is, but this is particularly interesting.


When I asked Brohm about his chances of starting this year, his response was interesting, "I was cut in Green Bay. I was on the Practice Squad, you know that right? I don't stand a chance in this league. I was already, for all intents and purposes, out of the league, and the Bills were stupid enough to grab me off of the trash heap. What am I supposed to do? Turn down the money?"

Brohm wasn't seeing the Bills' chances through rose colored lenses either, " This team? How is THIS team going to do? We are going to lose at least 18 games. We have no quarterback, offensive or defensive lines, and our coaches wouldn't cut it as water boys in NFL Europe. These fans will believe anything you tell them, so I just said all that stuff about Gailey and the offense. We're ****ed, bro. ****ed hard." he said, laughing.

I knew it!! The rest of the world is in on the joke!!

[ddaryl]

coaching is the only thing that will change this team aorund long term and short term....

and coaching could change the fate of all of our QB's...osmething so many here are not figuring into their mindsets..

Brohm will succeed if Gailey coaches him to succeed.. same goes for Edwards or Fitz..... it will come down to gameday decisions and preperation somethings Jauron was incapable of.

and all players are ready wether they are or not... nobody looks into the camera or speaks into the microphone and says "I don't feel I'm ready"

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Not really surprised. With a full off-season learning the playbook and participating in the mini camps, he SHOULD feel much better than he felt ANY point last year when he joined the Bills mid-season.

The second part of feeling given a chance to start may be more revealing. When he was drafted in GB, he knew he'd not start in his rookie year. The next year with Rogers establishing himself, he knew he had no shot at all. Here, this time, he felt he had a legit shot.

[Philagape]

and coaching could change the fate of all of our QB's...osmething so many here are not figuring into their mindsets..


Because players are not video game characters with coaches at the controls.
Because players are unique individuals who will succeed or fail based on how good they are, and also how good the players around them are. Coaching is one small factor.

[madness]

I like his description of Gailey's offense.

[BillsWin]

I don't care what people say. Edwards sucks, Fitzpatrick sucks. They both have proven suckage.

Brohm is the least known level of suck.

Give him a shot.

Edwards makes me sick and Fitzptrick is laughable. Brohm is different.

This is a throw away season, so give the kid a shot. We'll either be pleasantly surprised or in good position to draft a stud.

Win-win in my opinion.

[justasportsfan]

Brohm is the least known level of suck.

Give him a shot.

.
he got cut in favor of a late draft pick.

I do however think he is getting better as time goes by but I'm not ready to pull the plug on Trent until he fails in Gailey's system.

[HHURRICANE]

I don't care what people say. Edwards sucks, Fitzpatrick sucks. They both have proven suckage.

Brohm is the least known level of suck.

Give him a shot.

Edwards makes me sick and Fitzptrick is laughable. Brohm is different.

This is a throw away season, so give the kid a shot. We'll either be pleasantly surprised or in good position to draft a stud.

Win-win in my opinion.

This logic makes zero sense.

The best QB starts. Bottom line. If Edwards is that guy than he plays.

No season is ever a "throw away" and others players will benefit with the best possible guys on the field at every position.

[JCBills]

This logic makes zero sense.

The best QB starts. Bottom line. If Edwards is that guy than he plays.

No season is ever a "throw away" and others players will benefit with the best possible guys on the field at every position.

I think based on injury history alone, Edwards is a #2 at this point.

This is from a thread from BBMB made by Thronsen:



2003 - Started 4 games, got knocked out of 2 games and was out due to injury for 4 additional games.

2004 - Started 9 games, got knocked out of 2 of those and was out due to injury in 2 more.

2005 - Started 11 games, knocked out of 4.

2006 - Started 7, knocked out of 1 of those. Out for 5 additional games.

In summary:

In college, Edwards started 31 games. He was knocked out of 7 of those games (plus 1 knockout when he didn’t start). In addition, he was out of 11 games with injury.

In percentage terms, he was knocked out of around 20-25% of games he started, and missed an additional 25% of the games he might have started if he hadn’t been injured.

In total, somewhere around 50% of the games in his college career he should have started Edwards missed playtime due to injury.

Against arch rival Cal in his college career, Edwards was unable to play even 1 full game due to injuries in his 4 years. He didn’t play at all due to injury twice, and got knocked out of the other 2 games. His total playtime in all 4 games/16 quarters while he was there was only a little more then 2 quarters.

A list of the injuries Edwards has suffered since High School that forced him to miss serious playtime. Each is a different injury.

Concussion and Shoulder Sprain - 2003, knocked out of 1 game and missed 3+ more games.
Thigh Bruise - 2003, knocked out of 1 game and missed 1 more.
Bruised left shoulder and bruised left hand - 2004, knocked out of game in 1st Q.
Sprained left shoulder - 2004, knocked out of game at half time, missed 2 more.
Injured right hand - 2005, knocked out at start of game.
Injured thumb - 2005, knocked out in 3rd quarter.
Neck injury - 2005, knocked out in 3rd quarter.
Re-aggravated injury in throwing arm - 2005, knocked out in 3rd quarter.
Broken foot - 2006, Knocked out of game in first series, missed 5 more games.
Sprained right wrist - 2007, knocked out of game in 3rd quarter, missed 2-4 more games.
Thigh bruise - 2008, missed preseason game.
Concussion - 2008, knocked out of game in 1st series, would have missed following week game but was a bye week.
Groin - 2008, knocked out of game at halftime, missed 2 more games.
Concussion - 2009, knocked out of game in 2nd series, missed 2 more games.
Right Ankle sprain - 2009, knocked out on 2nd pass attempt, missed 2 more games till end of season.

Each of these injuries either prevented Edwards from finishing a game, or kept him out of the game entirely. I didn’t count injuries like the shoulder problem that come in the off-season and seem to be bothering him now.

[ddaryl]

Because players are not video game characters with coaches at the controls.
Because players are unique individuals who will succeed or fail based on how good they are, and also how good the players around them are. Coaching is one small factor.


not when you have Dick Jauron leading the pact with his club Jauron workouts and piss poor conditioning, horrible game day decisions and even worse playbook design and management

Jauron was just that bad IMO, and what we will see on the field this year will prove the point I was making.

COACHING is a much much larger piece to the Bills right now then anything else.

[HHURRICANE]

The only person who I care about saying "he's ready" is Gailey. I could care less what Brohm thinks. And that goes for Edwards and Fitz as well.

Whoever Gailey picks is who I support.

[tampabay25690]

Whoever the starter is I will support the whole way.....

[Novacane]

Brohm will succeed if Gailey coaches him to succeed.. same goes for Edwards or Fitz..... it will come down to gameday decisions and preperation somethings Jauron was incapable of.

"



Fitz has no physical ability. No amount of coaching will fix that!

[Philagape]

not when you have Dick Jauron leading the pact with his club Jauron workouts and piss poor conditioning, horrible game day decisions and even worse playbook design and management

Jauron was just that bad IMO, and what we will see on the field this year will prove the point I was making.

COACHING is a much much larger piece to the Bills right now then anything else.

Did Jauron cause passes to be inaccurate? Did he make QBs not see open receivers? Did he make OTs get owned by pass rushers? Did he make Kyle Williams get swallowed by the interior line?

[more cowbell]

lol this guy isnt even going to make the roster

[tat2dmike77]

Yeah and i'm ready to see a QB show up for the Bills

[better days]

The only person who I care about saying "he's ready" is Gailey. I could care less what Brohm thinks. And that goes for Edwards and Fitz as well.

Whoever Gailey picks is who I support.

I think Chan said it best, SHOW ME THE BABY.

[Mad Max]

Although he'll probably just be the tallest midget if he wins the starting job, he certainly couldn't do any worse than the incumbent.

[malvado78]

Did Jauron cause passes to be inaccurate? Did he make QBs not see open receivers? Did he make OTs get owned by pass rushers? Did he make Kyle Williams get swallowed by the interior line?

Yes he had a hand in all of that...
You know head coach and all. Game planning, coaching players up, hiring competent assistants, calling plays...

[DraftBoy]

Did Jauron cause passes to be inaccurate? Did he make QBs not see open receivers? Did he make OTs get owned by pass rushers? Did he make Kyle Williams get swallowed by the interior line?

Which is why talent was as much of an issue last year, and will be this year, as was coaching.

[ddaryl]

Did Jauron cause passes to be inaccurate? Did he make QBs not see open receivers? Did he make OTs get owned by pass rushers? Did he make Kyle Williams get swallowed by the interior line?


yes in a round about way... Jauron's teams were unprepared at almost every facet of the game.... They were not coached properly and they were not conditioned properly, and all the other piss poor things jauron did

Coaching will make a big difference in how this team handles every single part of the game.

[ddaryl]

Which is why talent was as much of an issue last year, and will be this year, as was coaching.

talent is always an issue... but good coaching makes a big difference for any and all teams good or bad....

techiques are taught by good coaches.... knowing your assignments is taught by good coaches, and drilled into the teams psyche when handled properly...


talent takes you over the top... but I have little doubt that good coaching can do a lot for this team as it stands right now... Maybe not get us to the playoffs which I doubt would happen this year... but winning a few games and playing consistently can very much happen purely based on coaching alone.

[Mindbender]

I think Chan said it best, SHOW ME THE BABY.

I think that was Nix. Just saying...

[Philagape]

Yes he had a hand in all of that...
You know head coach and all. Game planning, coaching players up, hiring competent assistants, calling plays...

None of that addresses what I mentioned. I was talking about what the players did.

[ddaryl]

Yes he had a hand in all of that...
You know head coach and all. Game planning, coaching players up, hiring competent assistants, calling plays...


I fully agree... but some people think you have to have pre hall of famers at every positon... and if that is not the case then it must be coaching that makes the difference. Good coaches get a lot more from their players... that is a known commodity in the league... and Jauron didn't get anythign from most of his players...


how a player is coached can make the differnce in wether some players develope and have great careers and/or others just fall out of the league in few years. It's also why many high priced FA's fail when they move to another team...Coaching scheme etc... all play into how a player performs... and the Bills performed as well as Jauron prepared them to preform

[Philagape]

yes in a round about way... Jauron's teams were unprepared at almost every facet of the game.... They were not coached properly and they were not conditioned properly, and all the other piss poor things jauron did

Coaching will make a big difference in how this team handles every single part of the game.

But it won't help poor execution.

Do you believe all NFL players are the same?
Is coaching the difference between Ryan Fitzpatrick and Peyton Manning? (or even, say, Chad Pennington?)
That's the logical end of this whole line of thought.
You're saying players don't exist as individual talents.

[Ron Burgundy]

Did Jauron cause passes to be inaccurate? Did he make QBs not see open receivers? Did he make OTs get owned by pass rushers? Did he make Kyle Williams get swallowed by the interior line?

The effect of coaching on a team is overrated by almost everyone.

I hate TMQ but he's probably right when he says coaching maybe affects 10% of a football game.

[ddaryl]

But it won't help poor execution.

Do you believe all NFL players are the same?
Is coaching the difference between Ryan Fitzpatrick and Peyton Manning? (or even, say, Chad Pennington?)
That's the logical end of this whole line of thought.
You're saying players don't exist as individual talents.


I beleive the majority of NFL players can play at the NFL level and the difference between the real crappy teams and the mid level teams is mostly coaching...

Coaching helps make a player like Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien superbowl winners.... Do they have talent like Peyton Manning or more like Fitz Edwards and Brohm...



I never once said single players don't exist as individual talents... You are spinning it that way.... I'm saying coaching will have the enitre team playing better, more consistent and more efficiently which will help some players rise up and start to excel wich will be the catalyst of this teams improvements...

and that COACHING this year will be the difference maker and will have many of our players looking and playing much better then when Jauron was here

and then when we achieve this continuitiy and consistency from our core the stars on this team will start to rise to the top, and some of those players will probably be players some of us wrote off as untalented hacks when Jauron was here


In a nutshell your saying this team will be sucky this year because we don;t have enough studs at positions..... I say the glass is half full and we will have a respectable year with the team playing more consistent and getting better as the year plays on mostly do to coaching this year....

I do agree that adding some talent in the next 2 years is key to us being a real playoff contender going forward.

[Philagape]

I never once said single players don't exist as individual talents... You are spinning it that way

I know you didn't say that, I'm telling you what what you're saying means.

[better days]

I beleive the majority of NFL players can play at the NFL level and the difference between the real crappy teams and the mid level teams is mostly coaching...

Coaching helps make a player like Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien superbowl winners.... Do they have talent like Peyton Manning or more like Fitz Edwards and Brohm...



I never once said single players don't exist as individual talents... You are spinning it that way.... I'm saying coaching will have the enitre team playing better, more consistent and more efficiently which will help some players rise up and start to excel wich will be the catalyst of this teams improvements...

and that COACHING this year will be the difference maker and will have many of our players looking and playing much better then when Jauron was here

and then when we achieve this continuitiy and consistency from our core the stars on this team will start to rise to the top, and some of those players will probably be players some of us wrote off as untalented hacks when Jauron was here


In a nutshell your saying this team will be sucky this year because we don;t have enough studs at positions..... I say the glass is half full and we will have a respectable year with the team playing more consistent and getting better as the year plays on mostly do to coaching this year....

I do agree that adding some talent in the next 2 years is key to us being a real playoff contender going forward.

I agree with everything you said except Doug Williams as an example. He was a talented QB & played very well for the Bucs before going to Washington. The Bucs went into a tailspin when he left.

[ddaryl]

I know you didn't say that, I'm telling you what what you're saying means.


WTF???

That's pretty rediculous.... and obvioulsy your caught up in whatever your mindset is and are unwilling to bend on it...

this team will be much better off because of coaching... and that is what I said have been saying and will conitnue to be saying...

The mind set that we have nothing but sucky players and won't get better until we replace all these sucky players has no merit. My mindset is a good coach with a solid system and player resepct will go further then any team with a bunch of high profile names and Dick Jauron

[ddaryl]

I agree with everything you said except Doug Williams as an example. He was a talented QB & played very well for the Bucs before going to Washington. The Bucs went into a tailspin when he left.

Doug played well but he is no stud QB or HOF candidate...

same with Dilfer.... which was backing up my point that a good qb with great coaching can go far... where as piss poor coaching and a average QB won't be capable of doing squat.

Does Brady become the phenom outside of Bellichecks coaching.... ???? or if he played his 1st 4 years under Dick Jauron do we laugh at the mention of his name along side the greats... ?????

[Jan Reimers]

I'd like to see what our players can do with better (I hope) coaching, before condemning our team as a bunch of talentless losers. The Bills won 7 games for 3 consecutive years, and 6 games last year, with a pretty lame coaching staff.

If there is no talent here, I wonder how they did that.

[Philagape]

same with Dilfer.... which was backing up my point that a good qb with great coaching can go far... where as piss poor coaching and a average QB won't be capable of doing squat.

But the Ravens didn't win the SB because of Dilfer.

Dilfer "went far" because of superior talent on his team.
I put "went far" in quotes because it was the team who went far. Because of superior talent.

So Dilfer makes my point more than yours. Thanks!

[Philagape]

I'd like to see what our players can do with better (I hope) coaching, before condemning our team as a bunch of talentless losers. The Bills won 7 games for 3 consecutive years, and 6 games last year, with a pretty lame coaching staff.

If there is no talent here, I wonder how they did that.

Well, if they lost more games than they won, then they are, in fact, losers. :brilliant:

[DraftBoy]

talent is always an issue... but good coaching makes a big difference for any and all teams good or bad....

techiques are taught by good coaches.... knowing your assignments is taught by good coaches, and drilled into the teams psyche when handled properly...


talent takes you over the top... but I have little doubt that good coaching can do a lot for this team as it stands right now... Maybe not get us to the playoffs which I doubt would happen this year... but winning a few games and playing consistently can very much happen purely based on coaching alone.

Players can be taught till coaches are blue in the face but if the player fails to learn anything then that's on coaching?

Talent is 75-80% of the game, technique and coaching take you over the top not the other way around.

[Ron Burgundy]

Well, if they lost more games than they won, then they are, in fact, losers. :brilliant:

You, sir, are a bad mother****er and I like your Bills posting.

[ddaryl]

Players can be taught till coaches are blue in the face but if the player fails to learn anything then that's on coaching?

Talent is 75-80% of the game, technique and coaching take you over the top not the other way around.


Talent can take you over the top... Coaching is where IT ALL BEGINS...

Give Jauron a 1/2 dozen hall of famers and he'll struggle to make the wildcard game....

Give me a coach who has a sysstem that works and you'll get a below average team to sniff that wildcard game and then you can add the extra talent.


I think people here like to find things to debate about... because I still cannot see why you or Phil are debating me on this...

this year... I'll say it once again.... Is all about coaching... and I am very interested in seeing what coaching can do for many of our players that were lost in Jaurons inability to be a coach...

I fully expect a few players on our team who were lost in Jaurons world to become releavent because of Gailey... or should i say I hope to see it... If we fail to see this and we fail to have a team that is looking more consistent and playing better football towards the end of the year then I will blame coaching 1st and talent 2nd


but all the talent in the world will only mask crappy coaching so much... But average players can rise and a form a core with a solid /great coach IMO.... :coffee:

[ddaryl]

But the Ravens didn't win the SB because of Dilfer.

Dilfer "went far" because of superior talent on his team.
I put "went far" in quotes because it was the team who went far. Because of superior talent.

So Dilfer makes my point more than yours. Thanks!


coaching had absolulty nothing to do with this ???? Those D's we're very well coached and kept the team in games... Did they have talent.. Yes they did which is why they were capable of winning and going to the Superbowl...

The O for the Ravens wasn't very superior to anything if I remember correctly and yet Dilfer had a solid year here....


If Jauron was coaching the ravens do you really beleive they win the Superbowl ???? I sure as **** do not.

yes you need talent to really win it all.... but I expect this year to be all about Gailey and what he can do to get these players we have to play up to their real potential... and I think we will see this year what coaching does for a team like the Bills when compared to Jaurons Bills.

[justasportsfan]

If Jauron was coaching the ravens do you really ebleive they win the Superbowl ???? I sure as **** do not.

He would have built a Die Nasty.

[JCBills]

You, sir, are a bad mother****er and I like your Bills posting.

I don't usually do this, but I felt compelled to tell you something. You have ... an absolutely ... breathtaking ... heinie. I mean, that thing is good. I wanna be friends with it.

Though I disagree with the quoted statement.

[ddaryl]

I'd like to see what our players can do with better (I hope) coaching, before condemning our team as a bunch of talentless losers. The Bills won 7 games for 3 consecutive years, and 6 games last year, with a pretty lame coaching staff.

If there is no talent here, I wonder how they did that.



I fully agree, and pretty much what I've been trying to say... This year is all about Gailey and what he can do to get the most out of players we have that were lost in the ineptness of Jauron.... We have players that can play, and good coaching can bring that out, breed confidence and manifest itself into something we truly can build upon...;.

[DraftBoy]

Talent can take you over the top... Coaching is where IT ALL BEGINS...

Give Jauron a 1/2 dozen hall of famers and he'll struggle to make the wildcard game....

Give me a coach who has a sysstem that works and you'll get a below average team to sniff that wildcard game and then you can add the extra talent.


I think people here like to find things to debate about... because I still cannot see why you or Phil are debating me on this...

this year... I'll say it once again.... Is all about coaching... and I am very interested in seeing what coaching can do for many of our players that were lost in Jaurons inability to be a coach...

I fully expect a few players on our team who were lost in Jaurons world to become releavent because of Gailey... or should i say I hope to see it... If we fail to see this and we fail to have a team that is looking more consistent and playing better football towards the end of the year then I will blame coaching 1st and talent 2nd


but all the talent in the world will only mask crappy coaching so much... But average players can rise and a form a core with a solid /great coach IMO.... :coffee:

Because you in my opinion have it backwards and I can prove it by asking you to go watch any football game below the pro level where talent is what wins at all times, not coaching.

Coaching is the icing on the proverbial cake. That's not to say its not important, but if you take a team of technically sound athletic kids and put them up against a set of raw super athletic kids the athletic kids still win time and time again. Why? Because talent matters, your better angles don't mean **** if you cant get to the spot before my sub 4.45 RB hits the corner, and then its bye bye and have a nice day.

[ddaryl]

Because you in my opinion have it backwards and I can prove it by asking you to go watch any football game below the pro level where talent is what wins at all times, not coaching.

Coaching is the icing on the proverbial cake. That's not to say its not important, but if you take a team of technically sound athletic kids and put them up against a set of raw super athletic kids the athletic kids still win time and time again. Why? Because talent matters, your better angles don't mean **** if you cant get to the spot before my sub 4.45 RB hits the corner, and then its bye bye and have a nice day.


Nope ... you fail to understand what I am saying... and your lost in your draftboy world of college evaluation... In a league where talent gets you everywhere, but technique is not necessaily needed ..

in the NFL everyone is talented who makes it and those who learn technique and fall into teams with good or great coaches rise to the top more often...I'll bet the farm that the best proven coaches have the higher precentage of pursued FA players and trade offers... etc... Why because those coaches provide a winning system that pumps out players.... the same players who were all talents in college and made it to the bigs as the numerous players drafted around them with similiar accolades but yet never produced at expected levels.

Yes there are the phenoms like Bruce Smith or whomever you want to pimp who just bypass everyone, but for the most part a really talented player in college can fall off the radar on a crappy team with crappy coaching... and yet a later drafted player on a team with much better coaching and system seem to become the bargain of the draft and years later head to FA for big paydays. Many of these players who had such great success early then move to teams without great coaches or systems and fade away... Still others get a "change of scenery"and become relevant... that change os scenery is COACHING/system for the most part.


Coaching is a much bigger difference maker then what you seem to beleive, which I find surprising... but then agian you user name says it all your married to scanning talent and completley ruled out the effects of solid to great coaching.....

[Nighthawk]

Fact is...Dickey was a very bad coach, probably the worst in NFL history and he DID contribute to the inept play that we saw. However, he was also an idiot when it came to talent and that was evident also. Hopefully, this new coach will be better (and I think he will be) and hopefully our GM lives up to his reputation as a great talent evaluator. We will see...but both sides are right.

[Ron Burgundy]

I don't usually do this, but I felt compelled to tell you something. You have ... an absolutely ... breathtaking ... heinie. I mean, that thing is good. I wanna be friends with it.

Though I disagree with the quoted statement.

That's because you are not a bad mother****er, nor does anyone enjoy your Bills posting. That's a strong quote, though. :up:

[JCBills]

That's because you are not a bad mother****er, nor does anyone enjoy your Bills posting. That's a strong quote, though. :up:

False statement, but alright.

[JCBills]

Because you in my opinion have it backwards and I can prove it by asking you to go watch any football game below the pro level where talent is what wins at all times, not coaching.

Coaching is the icing on the proverbial cake. That's not to say its not important, but if you take a team of technically sound athletic kids and put them up against a set of raw super athletic kids the athletic kids still win time and time again. Why? Because talent matters, your better angles don't mean **** if you cant get to the spot before my sub 4.45 RB hits the corner, and then its bye bye and have a nice day.

Angles are everything in football though. If they weren't extremely important, guys like Ray Lewis wouldn't still be able to play.

[Philagape]

Did they have talent.. Yes they did which is why they were capable of winning and going to the Superbowl...


Then we agree :up:

You see, the difference is I kinda want that whole winning and Super Bowl stuff ....

[BertSquirtgum]

jaurons ****ty ass coaching decision on game day lost the team many games. yet, these guys game back to play week in and week out knowing that their coach was a moron.

[billz83]

jaurons ****ty ass coaching decision on game day lost the team many games. yet, these guys game back to play week in and week out knowing that their coach was a moron.


cant believe i agree with u on sumthing..crazy..

[justasportsfan]

If you ask Jmarcus Russel, he'll tell you he's ready too.

[psubills62]

jaurons ****ty ass coaching decision on game day lost the team many games. yet, these guys game back to play week in and week out knowing that their coach was a moron.
I don't think it was just on game day. His attitude, his play-not-to-lose mentality really hurt this team.

The talent was indeed lacking the last few years. However, after how many failed drafts does blame fall to the coaches for not developing or using talent properly? Every draft pick, whether it's CJ Spiller or Aaron Maybin, need to be coached up to the NFL level. How come it took many injuries for guys like Jabari Greer and Fred Jackson to get playing time?

I don't necessarily agree with HH's injury conspiracy theory, but the fact is that every year under Jauron we had 15 or 20 guys on IR.

When the players on the roster rotate in and out every year, but the results remain the same (i.e. never beat playoff teams, never end the year well, almost never start the year well, never manage to escape the injury bug, talent that even fans can see only plays due to injury when absolutely necessary, players being forced into positions they shouldn't be playing, predictable offenses, no real direction on offense or defense, giving up fourth-quarter leads, etc.), it's time to blame the coaches. There were too many consistent negatives with each Jauron team to simply blame it on a lack of talent.

[justasportsfan]

There were too many consistent negatives with each Jauron team to simply blame it on a lack of talent.


Guys like Flacco would have been SB MVP's by now under Dick. Ngata would be headed to Canton.

/sarcasm

[psubills62]

Guys like Flacco would have been SB MVP's by now under Dick. Ngata would be headed to Canton.

/sarcasm

Exactly my point. A lot of people look at players we could have had in the drafts (Mangold, Ngata, Roethlisberger, etc.) and assume that these players would have been just as good on the Bills as they are now. I just don't see that at all.

[justasportsfan]

Exactly my point. A lot of people look at players we could have had in the drafts (Mangold, Ngata, Roethlisberger, etc.) and assume that these players would have been just as good on the Bills as they are now. I just don't see that at all.


Dick: "Ben, stay in the pocket and don't take chances . Take the 3 yards. Ngata, stand your ground or drop back but don't push forward. What type of D do you think I run? An agressive/attacking D? "

[psubills62]

Dick: "Ben, stay in the pocket and don't take chances . Take the 3 yards. Ngata, stand your ground or drop back but don't push forward. What type of D do you think I run? An agressive/attacking D? "

"Mr. Ngata, you'll have to lose about 50 pounds before I can play you. Guys who can anchor against the run just isn't my thing, sorry."

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah because guys like Urlacher weren't dominant while Dick was coach. Ted Washington didn't make a probowl while Dick was coach. Mike Brown? Didn't do anything either while Jauron was coach! Marty Booker - an average NFL WR...100 catch season while Jauron was coach. Olin Kreutz? Yeah he was garbage.

Point is, talent wins. Talent shines regardless of the coach. We don't have much talent, period.

[Mr. Pink]

"Mr. Ngata, you'll have to lose about 50 pounds before I can play you. Guys who can anchor against the run just isn't my thing, sorry."


Yeah, Jauron didn't coach Keith Traylor and Ted Washington in Chicago or anything.

The above quote almost holds any water.

[mayotm]

Yeah because guys like Urlacher weren't dominant while Dick was coach. Ted Washington didn't make a probowl while Dick was coach. Mike Brown? Didn't do anything either while Jauron was coach! Marty Booker - an average NFL WR...100 catch season while Jauron was coach. Olin Kreutz? Yeah he was garbage.

Point is, talent wins. Talent shines regardless of the coach. We don't have much talent, period.When you write "we", do you mean the Bills or the Browns?

[Mr. Pink]

When you write "we", do you mean the Bills or the Browns?


Do you ever have anything of value to add to conversations?

[psubills62]

Yeah because guys like Urlacher weren't dominant while Dick was coach. Ted Washington didn't make a probowl while Dick was coach. Mike Brown? Didn't do anything either while Jauron was coach! Marty Booker - an average NFL WR...100 catch season while Jauron was coach. Olin Kreutz? Yeah he was garbage.

Point is, talent wins. Talent shines regardless of the coach. We don't have much talent, period.

Offenses when Dick Jauron is HC:
1999: 8th (YPG), 25th (PPG)
2000: 23rd (YPG), 28th (PPG)
2001: 26th (YPG), 11th (PPG)
2002: 29th (YPG), 27th (PPG)
2003: 28th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2006: 30th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2007: 30th (YPG), 30th (PPG)
2008: 25th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2009: 30th (YPG), 28th (PPG)

That's an average ranking of about 25th (YPG), and 24th (PPG). If you can't see the pattern in those numbers, I can't help you. Funny how things didn't change a whit even with a brand new team.

Yes, talent does shine, but not necessarily regardless of coaching. Fred Jackson and Jabari Greer shined despite the coaching.

[psubills62]

Yeah, Jauron didn't coach Keith Traylor and Ted Washington in Chicago or anything.

The above quote almost holds any water.

Ah yes because I'm the only one bitter about using guys who were 20-30 pounds underweight at certain positions for the last 4 years. Good old Tampa 2. Funny how we never saw any of those big DT's here in Buffalo.

Try to lighten up a little.

[justasportsfan]

Offenses when Dick Jauron is HC:
1999: 8th (YPG), 25th (PPG)
2000: 23rd (YPG), 28th (PPG)
2001: 26th (YPG), 11th (PPG)
2002: 29th (YPG), 27th (PPG)
2003: 28th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2006: 30th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2007: 30th (YPG), 30th (PPG)
2008: 25th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2009: 30th (YPG), 28th (PPG)

That's an average ranking of about 25th (YPG), and 24th (PPG). If you can't see the pattern in those numbers, I can't help you. Funny how things didn't change a whit even with a brand new team.

Yes, talent does shine, but not necessarily regardless of coaching. Fred Jackson and Jabari Greer shined despite the coaching.



and FTY has no reply.....

Booker had good catch nos. in a crappy offense. 100 catches but only 1071 yards. Oh boy. Looks like a dink and dunk conservative offense that went NOWHERE.

FTY is one of the few Dick lickers left.

[trapezeus]

Offenses when Dick Jauron is HC:
1999: 8th (YPG), 25th (PPG)
2000: 23rd (YPG), 28th (PPG)
2001: 26th (YPG), 11th (PPG)
2002: 29th (YPG), 27th (PPG)
2003: 28th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2006: 30th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2007: 30th (YPG), 30th (PPG)
2008: 25th (YPG), 23rd (PPG)
2009: 30th (YPG), 28th (PPG)

That's an average ranking of about 25th (YPG), and 24th (PPG). If you can't see the pattern in those numbers, I can't help you. Funny how things didn't change a whit even with a brand new team.

Yes, talent does shine, but not necessarily regardless of coaching. Fred Jackson and Jabari Greer shined despite the coaching.

When you drop out the outliers in YPG and PPG you get an average ranking of 27 (YPG) and 26 (PPG). Not a big difference but just to make the point.

he still is constantly in the bottom fifth of the league over 8-9 years. that's pathetic.

I also think that if you have a bad image and no identity, you can't bring in a soft coach. even with talented players (hypothetically speaking), they have no direction. They've been losers before the jauron regime, and then he comes in and provides no clear guidance on why things are going to be different.

All of a sudden you have people going in different directions with no one to say, "this is how we do things here." it doesn't work in business, and it won't work on a professional sports team.

[Mr. Pink]

and FTY has no reply.....

Booker had good catch nos. in a crappy offense. 100 catches but only 1071 yards. Oh boy. Looks like a dink and dunk conservative offense that went NOWHERE.

FTY is one of the few Dick lickers left.


It's good to see that there are still a few delusional people who think Dick held the team back.

The team didn't win because it lacked talent, not because of the coaching.

Maybe when the team wins around 4 games this year you'll finally see the light and understand the real problem around here.

I've said numerous times why the offenses under Dick didn't work, they never had a QB worth a damn. Chicago, Detroit or here. It hard to have an average NFL offense when you have a bunch of stiffs masquerading as NFL QBs.

Go look at any offense in the past decade that's sucked, the common denominator is crappy QB play.

Anyone who thinks a team with Jim Miller, Joey Harrington, JP Losman or Trent Edwards as your number 1 QB can win has no idea how the NFL works.

[mayotm]

Do you ever have anything of value to add to conversations?I'm adding value by pointing out that you have multiple favorite teams. Thus, your Bills expertise may be lacking.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm adding value by pointing out that you have multiple favorite teams. Thus, your Bills expertise may be lacking.


Try me.

[justasportsfan]

It's good to see that there are still a few delusional people who think Dick held the team back.

The team didn't win because it lacked talent, not because of the coaching.

Maybe when the team wins around 4 games this year you'll finally see the light and understand the real problem around here.

I've said numerous times why the offenses under Dick didn't work, they never had a QB worth a damn. Chicago, Detroit or here. It hard to have an average NFL offense when you have a bunch of stiffs masquerading as NFL QBs.

Go look at any offense in the past decade that's sucked, the common denominator is crappy QB play.

Anyone who thinks a team with Jim Miller, Joey Harrington, JP Losman or Trent Edwards as your number 1 QB can win has no idea how the NFL works.

THe Dick licker forgets that DICK had FULL control over talent decisions especially while in Chicago which is why he had a fall out once D'Angelo took over as GM. With the bills, Dick ANNOINTED Trent Edwards as his QB. Duh!!!

So yeah, Dick held the team back as talent evaluator and coach.


Yep, we shall see the difference soon enough but I'm not holding my breath as far as there being a HUGE difference since it's GAileys first year. We shall come back and compare after 3 years.

Even if I point out the opinions of the players with regards to the difference between Dick and Gailey, you'll still be a Dick licker.

[Mr. Pink]

THe Dick licker forgets that DICK had FULL control over talent decisions especially while in Chicago which is why he had a fall out once D'Angelo took over as GM. With the bills, Dick ANNOINTED Trent Edwards as his QB. Duh!!!

So yeah, Dick held the team back as talent evaluator and coach.


Yep, we shall see the difference soon enough but I'm not holding my breath as far as there being a HUGE difference since it's GAileys first year. We shall come back and compare after 3 years.

Even if I point out the opinions of the players with regards to the difference between Dick and Gailey, you'll still be a Dick licker.


Who cares what their opinions are? Do they matter? What matters is what happens on the field. These guys have been yapping for years about how great they are and then lay an egg on Sundays.

Edwards was a Levy choice, not a Dick choice. But when the guy before Edwards was on the same caliber as JMarc minus 500 cheeseburgers, it's not hard to see why the switch was made on the field. Even if it obviously didn't work.

Also you apparently missed the entire point of the Marty Booker reference. It was just to show that a guy can have success in a team's offense even if it's vanilla and poor. But keep patting Lee Evans on the back and making excuses for him.

I, like you, hope that in the next three years this roster can be completely purged. There really isn't anyone who is a must keep on this team outside of Moorman. I believe that we need a purge in order to be competitive not only for the playoffs but in the AFC East. The gap between us and the other three teams in the division is legitimately as large as the Grand Canyon. By the way, that gap has zero to do with coaching nor has it in the past decade. It's a lack of talent.

[psubills62]

It's good to see that there are still a few delusional people who think Dick held the team back.

The team didn't win because it lacked talent, not because of the coaching.

Maybe when the team wins around 4 games this year you'll finally see the light and understand the real problem around here.

I've said numerous times why the offenses under Dick didn't work, they never had a QB worth a damn. Chicago, Detroit or here. It hard to have an average NFL offense when you have a bunch of stiffs masquerading as NFL QBs.

Go look at any offense in the past decade that's sucked, the common denominator is crappy QB play.

Anyone who thinks a team with Jim Miller, Joey Harrington, JP Losman or Trent Edwards as your number 1 QB can win has no idea how the NFL works.

Gailey had a decent amount of success with sucky QB's and relatively few weapons. He made Fiedler a 3000 yard passer with Lamar Smith and Travis Minor at RB, a rookie Chris Chambers, James McKnight and Oronde Gadsden at WR. Don't tell me the coaching can't rise above the talent. Jauron never put his team in a position to win and a lot of that is because the offense sucked, period.

It doesn't really matter to me how many games Gailey wins this year. After all, they're transitioning from the Tampa 2 to a 3-4, and they're actually going to try to develop young players (something Jauron failed to do time after time). If they win 4 games but show offensive improvement, I'm fine with it. I'd rather that than just treading water year after year, never trying to get above 7 wins.

[justasportsfan]

Who cares what their opinions are? Do they matter? What matters is what happens on the field. These guys have been yapping for years about how great they are and then lay an egg on Sundays.

Edwards was a Levy choice, not a Dick choice. But when the guy before Edwards was on the same caliber as JMarc minus 500 cheeseburgers, it's not hard to see why the switch was made on the field. Even if it obviously didn't work..
Of course you don't care what their opinions are because it goes against yours. Even though they practice with both teams AND YOU DON'T.

You still stick to your own opinion even though THE FACTS prove you are wrong.


I guess Fitzpatrick was Levy's choice too huh? Fewell and AVP benched Trent in favor of Fitz. That means TRent was Dicks choice. Just like Lynch was Dicks choice and Fred was Fewells and AVP's choice.
FYI, Fewell and AVP had less to work with after most of the starters were already on IR thanks to Club Jauron.


Also you apparently missed the entire point of the Marty Booker reference. It was just to show that a guy can have success in a team's offense even if it's vanilla and poor. But keep patting Lee Evans on the back and making excuses for him.
.

I never denied a player can succeed in a dink and dunk system.Most defenses will give players the dink and dunk catches.

What I claimed if that DICKS dink and dunk system gets HIS TEAM nowhere.

Apparently YOU missed the entire point that crappy offenses is the result wherever Dick decides to go and you continue to defend him.

I'll defend Lee over Dick any day.

[Mr. Pink]

Gailey had a decent amount of success with sucky QB's and relatively few weapons. He made Fiedler a 3000 yard passer with Lamar Smith and Travis Minor at RB, a rookie Chris Chambers, James McKnight and Oronde Gadsden at WR. Don't tell me the coaching can't rise above the talent. Jauron never put his team in a position to win and a lot of that is because the offense sucked, period.

It doesn't really matter to me how many games Gailey wins this year. After all, they're transitioning from the Tampa 2 to a 3-4, and they're actually going to try to develop young players (something Jauron failed to do time after time). If they win 4 games but show offensive improvement, I'm fine with it. I'd rather that than just treading water year after year, never trying to get above 7 wins.


Jauron teams here overachieved to the point where people and the organization thought they were one piece away from being a serious contender, unfortunately.

The above statement is why we "treaded water."

And a Jauron Bears team with 3 horrible QBs Miller, Matthews and McNown passed for over 4300 yards. Had Curtis Enis almost run for 1000 yards and had Marcus Robinson haul in 84 balls for 1400 yards. BTW Bobby Engram had 88 catches the same year.

The same thing can be said about Jauron's teams in Chicago, they overachieved with a weak nucleus. The 13-3 Bears were a product of getting every break and bounce their way, not because they were a dominant team.

What young players did Dick fail to develop? You mean the busts like Whitner, JP, McCargo? What young talented players does this team truly have? Outside of Byrd, who and I'm gonna be honest was in a position to succeed based on the defensive scheme and have balls come his way. Or maybe you mean the dime a dozen guys like Marshawn Lynch and Poz?

[justasportsfan]

yeah teams like the Colts , Pats and Pitts would still be as good as they are if Dick was their HC. That's a laugh and a half FTY.

[psubills62]

Who cares what their opinions are? Do they matter? What matters is what happens on the field. These guys have been yapping for years about how great they are and then lay an egg on Sundays.

Edwards was a Levy choice, not a Dick choice. But when the guy before Edwards was on the same caliber as JMarc minus 500 cheeseburgers, it's not hard to see why the switch was made on the field. Even if it obviously didn't work.

Also you apparently missed the entire point of the Marty Booker reference. It was just to show that a guy can have success in a team's offense even if it's vanilla and poor. But keep patting Lee Evans on the back and making excuses for him.

I, like you, hope that in the next three years this roster can be completely purged. There really isn't anyone who is a must keep on this team outside of Moorman. I believe that we need a purge in order to be competitive not only for the playoffs but in the AFC East. The gap between us and the other three teams in the division is legitimately as large as the Grand Canyon. By the way, that gap has zero to do with coaching nor has it in the past decade. It's a lack of talent.

What excuses? Booker averaged 737 yards per season under Jauron, while Evans averaged 942.5 with Jauron as HC. Booker averaged 63 receptions per year, while Evans averaged 61. If you count Booker's stats as success, then Evans is having success as well.

The gap has zero to do with coaching? What a load of crock. What did Jauron ever do to help this team? Load it up with 210 pound linebackers? Sign and draft incompetent depth? Run a basic offense that even average fans can predict? Fire offensive coordinators and left tackles shortly before the season opener? How many players did Jauron develop into starters and then started them NOT due to injuries?

[Mr. Pink]

Of course you don't care what their opinions are because it goes against yours. Even though they practice with both teams AND YOU DON'T.

You still stick to your own opinion even though THE FACTS prove you are wrong.


I guess Fitzpatrick was Levy's choice too huh? Fewell and AVP benched Trent in favor of Fitz. That means TRent was Dicks choice. Just like Lynch was Dicks choice and Fred was not Fewells and AVP's choice. FYI, Fewell and AVP had less to work with after most of the starters were already on IR thanks to Club Jauron.



I never denied a player can succeed in a dink and dunk system.Most defenses will give players the dink and dunk catches.

What I claimed if that DICKS dink and dunk system gets HIS TEAM nowhere.

Apparently YOU missed the entire point that crappy offenses is the result wherever Dick decides to go and you continue to defend him.

I'll defend Lee over Dick any day.


What do you do when your number 1 guy sucks? You go to the next in line. Unfortunately it's not like you can go out and get 2 quality NFL QBs, so Fitzpatrick was the choice among the career backups to go after. Who else were we gonna get Rex Grossman? Maybe Jeff Garcia, a guy who took 3 snaps all year? Michael Vick? Who would your choice for backup QB been instead?

Well we could have traded to get one!

Yeah, and what would we have traded for a backup QB? And what backup QB?

Trent Edwards is and was the guy Marv Levy wanted, period.

Players with talent can succeed in any system. What is the west coast offense? Mostly a dink and dunk offense. Too bad Bill Walsh and others never knew how much that offense sucked. For shame.

Dick didn't enjoy success in any of his stops because he never had quality quarterback play. Whether that is his fault or not, who knows? But it is fact that he's never had even an average NFL QB to build an offense around.

It wasn't the systems it was the players. Teams build dynasties around systems we employed. We just didn't have the talent to pull off the schemes. Maybe because we had a marketing guy as the GM.

[Mr. Pink]

yeah teams like the Colts , Pats and Pitts would still be as good as they are if Dick was their HC. That's a laugh and a half FTY.


They would.

They have talent.

[justasportsfan]

They would.

They have talent.


:roflmao:

[psubills62]

Jauron teams here overachieved to the point where people and the organization thought they were one piece away from being a serious contender, unfortunately.

The above statement is why we "treaded water."

And a Jauron Bears team with 3 horrible QBs Miller, Matthews and McNown passed for over 4300 yards. Had Curtis Enis almost run for 1000 yards and had Marcus Robinson haul in 84 balls for 1400 yards. BTW Bobby Engram had 88 catches the same year.

The same thing can be said about Jauron's teams in Chicago, they overachieved with a weak nucleus. The 13-3 Bears were a product of getting every break and bounce their way, not because they were a dominant team.

What young players did Dick fail to develop? You mean the busts like Whitner, JP, McCargo? What young talented players does this team truly have? Outside of Byrd, who and I'm gonna be honest was in a position to succeed based on the defensive scheme and have balls come his way. Or maybe you mean the dime a dozen guys like Marshawn Lynch and Poz?

Come on, you can't believe that this team has been so unlucky as to simply draft bust after bust every year under Jauron? Gee, what a coincidence. Funny how those guys NEVER DEVELOPED while being coached by Jauron. :rolleyes:

Jauron teams have overachieved based on what their stats would indicate, but not based on what the talent does.

You're listing stats from one year, one of the outliers that trap mentioned. And even in that season, how good were they at scoring points? Hm, let me look at my convenient post a few minutes ago...looks like they sucked!

You're talking about Jauron's first year as a HC. And how come if he spurred that offense to do so well, he couldn't replicate it in the next few years, when the teams averaged 2856 passing yards per season?

Talk about making excuses. Jauron has been so unlucky as to have minimal talent during two head coaching stints and 9 years. Yes, the 13-3 Bears had all the bounces go their way, and they played a weak schedule. It's no coincidence that if the Bills had had a lot of bounces go their way in the regular season, they might have had a much better record as well. Why do you think the Bills consistently lost close games, and consistently allowed teams like the Patriots to walk all over them come the 4th quarter? How many game-winning drives have other teams led against us?

Sorry, but when the same things happen over and over under a coach, it's easy to see what the common factor is. Jauron sucks as a coach. He's absolutely horrible and has no idea how to use his players efficiently. He has no idea how to develop talent in players.

This isn't even worth the argument. You want to keep using outliers to show how great Dick Jauron is at overcoming poor talent? Fine. There's a reason he's only a secondary coach now. There's a reason he'll never again be a head coach. You just don't seem to realize it.

[Mr. Pink]

What excuses? Booker averaged 737 yards per season under Jauron, while Evans averaged 942.5 with Jauron as HC. Booker averaged 63 receptions per year, while Evans averaged 61. If you count Booker's stats as success, then Evans is having success as well.

The gap has zero to do with coaching? What a load of crock. What did Jauron ever do to help this team? Load it up with 210 pound linebackers? Sign and draft incompetent depth? Run a basic offense that even average fans can predict? Fire offensive coordinators and left tackles shortly before the season opener? How many players did Jauron develop into starters and then started them NOT due to injuries?


No, my point is Lee Evans is an average NFL wide receiver. He's nothing special nor will he ever be. Fortunately for him he gets paid to be elite, unfortunately for us he gets paid to be elite.

He fired the OC because the move was directed from above. The system wasn't working. Why? Lack of talent to run it. Which was obvious when we tried to run no huddle in games. Now why was this system even tried in the first place? Pressure from fans and others that said the offense was too boring. Unfortunately the offense had to be that boring to keep in games.

Jauron had gameplans and schemes that kept the team in a lot of football games it had no business being in. Unfortunately he wasn't good at adjustments and when games wear down less talented teams fold. A perfect example of this is our 17-16 loss to the eventual Super Bowl champion Indianapolis Colts in 2006. And how was this done? By not allowing our atrocious QB to throw the ball much and keeping the Colts high flying offense to take underneath shots all game long. Another example is the Monday Night game versus Dallas or New England, take your pick. Or if you like better, the game against the Saints last year, which we were in til the 4th Quarter.

Fire the LT? Please. Peters wanted nothing to do with playing here anymore.

Whitner started. Lynch started. POS started. Ko Simpson started.

Is the statement above trying to say that guys like Stevie Johnson deserved more? Even though Stevie and others really haven't shown that should be starting NFL players.

Here's the gap between us and the Patriots...Tom Brady. Jets? top running team in football and staunch defense. Dolphins? Well I can't say anything nice about them, but their offense was much better than ours and Ricky Williams + Ronnie Brown > Jackson + Lynch

[Mr. Pink]

Come on, you can't believe that this team has been so unlucky as to simply draft bust after bust every year under Jauron? Gee, what a coincidence. Funny how those guys NEVER DEVELOPED while being coached by Jauron. :rolleyes:

Jauron teams have overachieved based on what their stats would indicate, but not based on what the talent does.

You're listing stats from one year, one of the outliers that trap mentioned. And even in that season, how good were they at scoring points? Hm, let me look at my convenient post a few minutes ago...looks like they sucked!

You're talking about Jauron's first year as a HC. And how come if he spurred that offense to do so well, he couldn't replicate it in the next few years, when the teams averaged 2856 passing yards per season?

Talk about making excuses. Jauron has been so unlucky as to have minimal talent during two head coaching stints and 9 years. Yes, the 13-3 Bears had all the bounces go their way, and they played a weak schedule. It's no coincidence that if the Bills had had a lot of bounces go their way in the regular season, they might have had a much better record as well. Why do you think the Bills consistently lost close games, and consistently allowed teams like the Patriots to walk all over them come the 4th quarter? How many game-winning drives have other teams led against us?

Sorry, but when the same things happen over and over under a coach, it's easy to see what the common factor is. Jauron sucks as a coach. He's absolutely horrible and has no idea how to use his players efficiently. He has no idea how to develop talent in players.

This isn't even worth the argument. You want to keep using outliers to show how great Dick Jauron is at overcoming poor talent? Fine. There's a reason he's only a secondary coach now. There's a reason he'll never again be a head coach. You just don't seem to realize it.


Again, I've never said Dick is a good coach.

He's just been saddled with some of the most poor excuses of a talent base any coach has ever had.

If he was as bad as some people want to say, he wouldn't have been the HC of three separate teams. Bad coaches get ousted very quickly. Hank Bullough anyone?

[JCBills]

Jauron teams here overachieved to the point where people and the organization thought they were one piece away from being a serious contender, unfortunately.

The above statement is why we "treaded water."

And a Jauron Bears team with 3 horrible QBs Miller, Matthews and McNown passed for over 4300 yards. Had Curtis Enis almost run for 1000 yards and had Marcus Robinson haul in 84 balls for 1400 yards. BTW Bobby Engram had 88 catches the same year.

The same thing can be said about Jauron's teams in Chicago, they overachieved with a weak nucleus. The 13-3 Bears were a product of getting every break and bounce their way, not because they were a dominant team.

What young players did Dick fail to develop? You mean the busts like Whitner, JP, McCargo? What young talented players does this team truly have? Outside of Byrd, who and I'm gonna be honest was in a position to succeed based on the defensive scheme and have balls come his way. Or maybe you mean the dime a dozen guys like Marshawn Lynch and Poz?

Lol @ Poz being dime a dozen.

Yeah, Enis almost hit 1,000 yds.............. at 3.2 YPC

In 01 he lucked out with A-Train's ROTY season.

[Mr. Pink]

Lol @ Poz being dime a dozen.

Yeah, Enis almost hit 1,000 yds.............. at 3.2 YPC

In 01 he lucked out with A-Train's ROTY season.


Where would you put POS?

Beason, D'Qwell Jackson, Ruud, Ray Lewis, David Harris, Lauranitis, Willis, Fletcher, Urlacher, Barnett, Dansby, Vilma, Tatupu, Ryans.

14 guys easily better than POS.

It is what it is...Average = dime a dozen.

[JCBills]

Where would you put POS?

Beason, D'Qwell Jackson, Ruud, Ray Lewis, David Harris, Lauranitis, Willis, Fletcher, Urlacher, Barnett, Dansby, Vilma, Tatupu, Ryans.

14 guys easily better than POS.

It is what it is...Average = dime a dozen.

Hahahahahaha.

[psubills62]

Fire the LT? Please. Peters wanted nothing to do with playing here anymore.

I was talking about Langston Walker.

[psubills62]

If he was as bad as some people want to say, he wouldn't have been the HC of three separate teams. Bad coaches get ousted very quickly. Hank Bullough anyone?

He was head coach of the Lions for 11 games. Not all bad coaches get ousted quickly, most are given at least three years. Especially when people make up all sorts of excuses for them.

[psubills62]

Whitner started. Lynch started. POS started. Ko Simpson started.

I'm talking about developed them into legitimate starting material, which rules out Simpson and possibly Whitner. And I'm pretty sure both Whitner and Simpson started their rookie years because of injuries. So I'm glad to see that two guys who were drafted and then handed the starting jobs immediately are the only two you can think of.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm talking about developed them into legitimate starting material, which rules out Simpson and possibly Whitner. And I'm pretty sure both Whitner and Simpson started their rookie years because of injuries. So I'm glad to see that two guys who were drafted and then handed the starting jobs immediately are the only two you can think of.


It's not the coaches fault that the above 4 guys I was talking about simply are nothing but roster fillers. Ko started here from the beginning, went elsewhere, and is now done.

Unfortunately the team hasn't realized that with the others to cut their losses and move on like they did in the Ko situation.

Although they did try in McCargo's case.

About Dick in Detroit, he was just an interim coach. You're not guaranteed any kind of longevity in that role, nor that you'll be back the next season. BTW he was only the head coach for 5 games.

Should Youboty, Ellison, Pennington, Merz, Wright, Wendling, Schouman, Ah You, Ellis, Corner, Fine, Omon, Bell, Johnson, Cox, Maybin, Nelson, Harris, Lankster or Hardy started since day 1? Hell no. Most of those guys shouldn't even be the NFL.

The only guy you can say Dick missed the ball on from starting since day 1 is Jairus Byrd.

Levitre and Wood also started since day 1.

[psubills62]

It's not the coaches fault that the above 4 guys I was talking about simply are nothing but roster fillers. Ko started here from the beginning, went elsewhere, and is now done.

About Dick in Detroit, he was just an interim coach. You're not guaranteed any kind of longevity in that role, nor that you'll be back the next season. BTW he was only the head coach for 5 games.

The bolded is exactly my point. Yes, in some ways it IS the coaches' fault. You really think this team is so unlucky as to continue to draft bad players? At some point the blame has to fall on the coaches for not developing them properly. The coaches play a role in maximizing a player's talent, you can't just say they are not to blame at all if a player fails or doesn't live up to his potential. Good coaches get the most out of their players. Despite what you think, Jauron did not overachieve with the rosters he had.

And yeah, you're kind of helping my point by saying he was interim coach of the Lions. You seem to think that being head coach of three different teams is some great feat, but in one he was essentially the only choice as interim HC. He wasn't actually hired as HC.