Bills rank 12th out of 32 teams in player salaries

[Johnny Bugmenot]

A list of NFL teams' total payrolls for 2009 in USA Today (Gannett) holds more than a few surprises, and topping all of them, is the fact the Buffalo Bills were #12 on the list of 32 teams. According to the published report, the Bills spent $111,956,066 on player salaries last season.

While the fact the NY Giants top the list with a payroll of $137,638,866 is not a surprise, it is surprising to see the Bills listed ahead of teams like the Washington Redskins (17th - $105,049,071), Indianapolis Colts ($101m), New England Patriots ($97.5m) and Dallas Cowboys ($90.6m).

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=79266&catid=4

[ServoBillieves]

Very surprising... maybe with Schobel gone that number would drop?

Also gotta love the "optimism" that the Bills will move to Toronto. Figure out a nickname for the Toronto "?'s" while you can folks!

[clumping platelets]

It's "HOW" it's spent not "HOW MUCH"

[SABURZFAN]

It's "HOW" it's spent not "HOW MUCH"


let's not hear the contract blunders again........... :hang:

[YardRat]

It's "HOW" it's spent not "HOW MUCH"

True, unless you are in the 'cheap owner bastard' camp.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Very surprising... maybe with Schobel gone that number would drop? T.O. being gone is also likely to bring that number down (those are 2009 numbers, obviously 2010 hasn't been finalized yet).

[BADTHINGSMAN]

It's "HOW" it's spent not "HOW MUCH"

Agreed, Bills pay way to much for getting nothing. I still think the Bills could have gotten T.O. cheaper then they did. Oh well he is gone now.

[OpIv37]

So, the Bills aren't cheap. Just incompetent.

[Dr. Lecter]

So, the Bills aren't cheap. Just incompetent.


Better than being both like many accuse them of being!

[psubills62]

It's always been amusing to me that people talk all about how Ralph is cheap, but when they're proven wrong, they just fall back on the "well, OK, so he spends his money, but he spends it poorly." Well, up until those people change tune, that wasn't what the argument was about.

We all know that Ralph has made some poor deals. It's just that every time the "how terribly this organization is run" argument comes up, people whine and moan about how Ralph never spends money. And it all starts up all over again.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

So, the Bills aren't cheap. Just incompetent.


Shows how bad Buffalo is at evaluating talent, and how they even overpay to get mediocre players to sign. I thought the Bills were cheap, but damn it really shows how bad Buffalo's FO/Scouts really are.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

It's always been amusing to me that people talk all about how Ralph is cheap, but when they're proven wrong, they just fall back on the "well, OK, so he spends his money, but he spends it poorly." Well, up until those people change tune, that wasn't what the argument was about.

We all know that Ralph has made some poor deals. It's just that every time the "how terribly this organization is run" argument comes up, people whine and moan about how Ralph never spends money. And it all starts up all over again.

When a team passes on solid players for "alot of promise" players it makes them look cheap. Thats why Ive always considered Ralph a cheap guy. I know the Bills have forked out the cash to a few players, but if Buffalo has to overpay to get mediocre players then I dont want to think what they would have to pay a star player. Thought makes me ill.

[trapezeus]

It's always been amusing to me that people talk all about how Ralph is cheap, but when they're proven wrong, they just fall back on the "well, OK, so he spends his money, but he spends it poorly." Well, up until those people change tune, that wasn't what the argument was about.

We all know that Ralph has made some poor deals. It's just that every time the "how terribly this organization is run" argument comes up, people whine and moan about how Ralph never spends money. And it all starts up all over again.

I've gone from ralph is cheap to ralph is an idiot.

He should have just overspent on the front office and the coaches over the years. He should have put his investment into the stadium and field a team with 3-5 stars and then fodder.

Great scouts and great coaches constantly perform well which makes marketing moves like toronto or the albany train less needed because winning is a disease. people get it and they get it bad. You can charge them more without thought to see a winner.

Instead, he wants to be this football guy and dictate how and who should be playing and he has messed it up for the better part of 50 years. And he overpays for evans, schobel, etc. and we still don't have a superstar on this team. it's ridiculous.

Whether he's cheap or stupid, he's the problem because everything in place comes from him and the morons he has put in charge.

It sounds like nix is finally trying to break him of this habit.

[Mahdi]

A list of NFL teams' total payrolls for 2009 in USA Today (Gannett) holds more than a few surprises, and topping all of them, is the fact the Buffalo Bills were #12 on the list of 32 teams. According to the published report, the Bills spent $111,956,066 on player salaries last season.

While the fact the NY Giants top the list with a payroll of $137,638,866 is not a surprise, it is surprising to see the Bills listed ahead of teams like the Washington Redskins (17th - $105,049,071), Indianapolis Colts ($101m), New England Patriots ($97.5m) and Dallas Cowboys ($90.6m).

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=79266&catid=4
Which means we spend our money foolishly.

[better days]

Shows how bad Buffalo is at evaluating talent, and how they even overpay to get mediocre players to sign. I thought the Bills were cheap, but damn it really shows how bad Buffalo's FO/Scouts really are.

NO this shows how bad the Bills FO/Scouts have been in the PAST. It is a new day in Buffalo & better days are ahead.

[Billz_fan]

Yep, He has avoided paying big money for a top name coach all these years and thrown the money away spending it on players who aren't worth it. I will never say he is cheap anymore. Just incompetant. :laughter:

[Mr. Pink]

Ralphie is just cheap in the front office and coaching hires.

Overpaying for players is what has to be done to get talent to come here lately and unfortunately the wrong ones have been picked.

[PromoTheRobot]

Also gotta love the "optimism" that the Bills will move to Toronto. Figure out a nickname for the Toronto "?'s" while you can folks!

How about the Toronto Buffalo Bills? In this case "Buffalo Bills" is the team nickname, as in Bill Cody.

PTR

[OpIv37]

When a team passes on solid players for "alot of promise" players it makes them look cheap. Thats why Ive always considered Ralph a cheap guy. I know the Bills have forked out the cash to a few players, but if Buffalo has to overpay to get mediocre players then I dont want to think what they would have to pay a star player. Thought makes me ill.

If the NFL kept an official stat on "potential," we'd be #1 every year.

[justasportsfan]

this is why we should build the core through the draft. We don't have to overpay just to force FA's who may not pan out anyways (Dockery, Walker, etc.) to come and play for the bills.

[OpIv37]

this is why we should build the core through the draft. We don't have to overpay just to force FA's who may not pan out anyways (Dockery, Walker, etc.) to come and play for the bills.

The problem with this strategy is that by the time we fill enough of our current holes to be competitive, guys like Fred Jackson and McKelvin will be either gone or washed up. We're constantly chasing our tails (hence, drafting an RB in the first round in 3 of our last 7 drafts).

[psubills62]

The problem with this strategy is that by the time we fill enough of our current holes to be competitive, guys like Fred Jackson and McKelvin will be either gone or washed up. We're constantly chasing our tails (hence, drafting an RB in the first round in 3 of our last 7 drafts).

Even the best teams are going to have some turnover. I love Freddie, but Jackson won't be missed that much. That's why the best way to build a team is to create an offensive and defensive identity, find several building blocks, pay those guys and draft to fill in behind the guys who aren't part of the core, or find guys who are mediocre, but work well in your system. McKelvin may become a core player, but he still has a lot to prove.

The problem under Jauron was that he had a scheme where the DL is by far the most important. Schobel was the only DL building block, however. We also had NO identity on offense. I mean, seriously, trying to bring back the no-huddle with a walking concussion as our leader?

[justasportsfan]

The problem with this strategy is that by the time we fill enough of our current holes to be competitive, guys like Fred Jackson and McKelvin will be either gone or washed up. We're constantly chasing our tails (hence, drafting an RB in the first round in 3 of our last 7 drafts).

I agree. It takes time and Nix already prepped us with that. Mckelvin is young enough. JAckson will help the transition for Spille to take over so I doubt he will be missed once Spiller develops.


Under Donahoe, Milloy, Fletcher, Spikes, Adams, practically the entire D was primed and ready to make a run at the playoffs. All of a sudden Donahoe decides to get rid of Drew (who was another FA plug in) and have JP start at qb. This is why the vets like Moulds rebelled vs. Mularkey . They werent getting any younger and TD decided to plug in JP who would take time to develop . This is why I was on their side in the JP vs. Holcomb.

I'd rather we take time as long as we're doing it right. Pluggin the team with vets may not be here in a year or two will set us back again in years to come. Nix said he wants players who will be here for a long time and grow together and I don't have a problem with that. That's how the Pats, Pitts, Colts, Chargers have done it.

This is why Nix wanted a developmental QB in Levi Brown.Unless Brohm or Trent turns the corner and becomes a franchise qb , I think they will do the same with Levi the same thing they did with Rivers and co. Grow together with Spiller and co.

[Mr. Pink]

this is why we should build the core through the draft. We don't have to overpay just to force FA's who may not pan out anyways (Dockery, Walker, etc.) to come and play for the bills.


I agree with this.

Unfortunately you do need to augment your home grown talent with a couple of FAs every year. Hopefully we can do a better job at picking FAs in the future.

Also every player we develop we end up just letting walk and this isn't a theme that started recently. You can go back to Joe Cribbs on that one but in the recent past, we developed Winfield, Williams, Clements, McGahee, Peters, Greer among others and just let them go to greener pastures.

That doesn't include some of the better FA signings we've had in the past like Fletcher, Adams, Bledsoe etc...

If you go back the past decade, probably not even, you could have a solid core of players to build around. Of course we'd still be left without a QB who mattered right now.

[justasportsfan]

Also every player we develop we end up just letting walk and this isn't a theme that started recently.


Exactly. People wonder why the rich get richer when it comes to the PAts with draft picks. Even if their home grown talent want out after their first contract, the Pats are always able to recoup that loss with high draft picks when they trade out that home grown talent and they don't end up missing a hearbeat. In the meantime , we get nothing for guys like Clements.

[better days]

I agree. It takes time and Nix already prepped us with that. Mckelvin is young enough. JAckson will help the transition for Spille to take over so I doubt he will be missed once Spiller develops.


Under Donahoe, Milloy, Fletcher, Spikes, Adams, practically the entire D was primed and ready to make a run at the playoffs. All of a sudden Donahoe decides to get rid of Drew (who was another FA plug in) and have JP start at qb. This is why the vets like Moulds rebelled vs. Mularkey . They werent getting any younger and TD decided to plug in JP who would take time to develop . This is why I was on their side in the JP vs. Holcomb.

I'd rather we take time as long as we're doing it right. Pluggin the team with vets may not be here in a year or two will set us back again in years to come. Nix said he wants players who will be here for a long time and grow together and I don't have a problem with that. That's how the Pats, Pitts, Colts, Chargers have done it.

This is why Nix wanted a developmental QB in Levi Brown.Unless Brohm or Trent turns the corner and becomes a franchise qb , I think they will do the same with Levi the same thing they did with Rivers and co. Grow together with Spiller and co.

I think it will be beneficial to have a banger like Freddy or Marshawn as a change of pace for CJ.

[YardRat]

Look back at the Super Bowl rosters, and pick out the guys that were big-time 'name' free agents when the Bills signed them.

The core was drafted.

[Mr. Pink]

Look back at the Super Bowl rosters, and pick out the guys that were big-time 'name' free agents when the Bills signed them.

The core was drafted.


Free Agency was much different back in 1990 than it is today.

Guys who hit Plan B FA back 20 years ago were basically bums that their team didn't want anymore.

Poor example.

[Akhippo]

We have to draft a core, thats a given. But first off you have to draft your core at the key positions. LT, QB, DE, NT, etc. Then you have to hit on those positions with pro bowl type players. Then you pay those players and keep them.

Then you find a mid round RB or platoon. Develop either a TE or WR to fit your scheme. Find those OLBS and safeties that will get the job done.

The Ravens are always tough up the middle on defense. The pats did it with Brady, their O line and front seven on defense.

We dont have a QB, LT and are hardly strong up the defensive middle. So we will, as usual, try to scheme our way to wins.

That may win, but if you run into someone who can outscheme you, you arent able to turn around and punch them in the mouth for a win.

Hopefully we are on the right straight and will back into.

[SABURZFAN]

The Old Fart delves out some money for once and this is supposed to remove the cheap label? what a joke. some people obviously didn't sit through the late 60's, the 70's, the 80's, and the early 90's.

[Typ0]

The Old Fart delves out some money for once and this is supposed to remove the cheap label? what a joke. some people obviously didn't sit through the late 60's, the 70's, the 80's, and the early 90's.

because revenues are low compared to big market teams player salaries are supplemented through revenue sharing.

[SABURZFAN]

because revenues are low compared to big market teams player salaries are supplemented through revenue sharing.


The Slumlord of the NFL is not hurting for money by any means.

[X-Era]

It's "HOW" it's spent not "HOW MUCH"

Yes, and unfortunately we need to sometimes overpay to get people here while NE can underpay for players like Tom Brady.

Win and things get better.

[X-Era]

We have to draft a core, thats a given. But first off you have to draft your core at the key positions. LT, QB, DE, NT, etc. Then you have to hit on those positions with pro bowl type players. Then you pay those players and keep them.
:clap:

QB and LT are the most critical factors in the success of the team at this point. Not coaching, not schemes, not RB, not WR, not the rest of the OL, not the D (our D will at least be average to decent IMO).

And out of all of that, the QB spot trumps them all.

If we cant find a way to get a better than average QB, we are stuck with a perpetual non-playoff team.

I wouldn't mind the draft route, but our success rate is horrible... I worry that we don't seem to develop them well at all.

We need a long term and significant solution.

Just my :2cents:

[Akhippo]

:clap:

QB and LT are the most critical factors in the success of the team at this point. Not coaching, not schemes, not RB, not WR, not the rest of the OL, not the D (our D will at least be average to decent IMO).

And out of all of that, the QB spot trumps them all.

If we cant find a way to get a better than average QB, we are stuck with a perpetual non-playoff team.

I wouldn't mind the draft route, but our success rate is horrible... I worry that we don't seem to develop them well at all.

We need a long term and significant solution.

Just my :2cents:


That has been our downfall. We havent successfully addressed the cornerstones. We have tried with Losman.... After Ben, Eli, Rivers.

Then we havent hit on our picks.

That is our downfall right there.

[Historian]

Ralphie is just cheap in the front office and coaching hires.

.

Particularly the coordinators.

[Typ0]

Particularly the coordinators.


None of those positions draw supplemental revenue streams.

[YardRat]

Free Agency was much different back in 1990 than it is today.

True, but there still was a mechanism in place for players to switch teams, just at a price. Remember Bruce Smith and Pat Bowlen?


Guys who hit Plan B FA back 20 years ago were basically bums that their team didn't want anymore.

Poor example.

Not necessarily true...Green Bay wanted to keep Kenneth Davis, and Tampa screwed themselves out of Steve Christie.

[SabreEleven]

Agreed, <S>Bills</S> Sabres pay way to much for getting nothing. I still think the Bills could have gotten T.O. cheaper then they did. Oh well he is gone now.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

NO this shows how bad the <S>Bills</S> Sabres FO/Scouts have been in the PAST. It is a new day in Buffalo & better days are ahead.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

If the <S>NFL</S> NHL kept an official stat on "potential," we'd be #1 every year.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

So, the <S>Bills</S> Sabres aren't cheap. Just incompetent.

It's really sad how this is still true no matter what Buffalo team you put in.

[Mr. Pink]

True, but there still was a mechanism in place for players to switch teams, just at a price. Remember Bruce Smith and Pat Bowlen?



Not necessarily true...Green Bay wanted to keep Kenneth Davis, and Tampa screwed themselves out of Steve Christie.


Very true.

Teams could protect 37 players each and every year from entering Plan B.

Those players could try to negotiate a contract but the original club had the right to still sign their player back if they wanted.

So basically the only guys who switched teams during Plan B FA were guys that their original teams didn't want anymore or both sides agreed to walk away from one another.

Like Felix Wright moving from Cleveland to Minnesota in 1991.

If you were protected you were basically an ERFA or RFA...unprotected you were UFA. If you weren't protected, your team didn't want you anymore for whatever reason be it health, age, salary, banging the owners wife, etc.

About your examples...Bruce Smith is a perfect example, Buffalo wanted to keep him and under Plan B was able to. Kenneth Davis and Christie? Green Bay and Tampa Bay obviously didn't otherwise they wouldn't have came here.

Prime examples of guys who wanted to go elsewhere but couldn't because of the system were Freeman McNeil and Niko Noga. Players had ZERO leverage if they were protected. There were plenty of lawsuits against Plan B by players who contended they could make more money if it really was free agency and were awarded damages, Don Majkowski for example was awarded 1.4 million dollars and players around the league received 175 million in total, and courts deemed Plan B an anti-trust violation.

All of the above is why you didn't and couldn't build through FA back then. Matt Millen for example was the top FA signing in 1991.