The Bills Pattern...and solving their Core Issue

[Mike]

What will happen is what has been happening for the past 10years. In the beginning for the 2000's we went with a Great Defense mind, and he really was great at defense. Our defense improved to #2 overall and we almost made the playoffs, but what was missing? Offence, so we fired our coach (who btw just won a SB ring for helping improve Saints Defense) and hired an offensive coach who was run oriented (Mularkey). That did not work, so we fired him and hired a Defensive Cover 2 Coach who focused more on Passing in Jouron. And after a few more years, we fired him and hired a an Offense Run first coach. Its like a see saw, it keeps going back and forth, without solving any of the original issues, like Talent evaluation, scouting, and getting the right people drafted and signed as FA.

The Bottom line is that the Bills do not have the personal to have a good offence or a good defense this year. Simply that is what is missing, and above all else we needed a great talent evaluator who could put the pieces together. A guy like Parcels, or Shanny, or Cowart, etc.... and we simply did not get that type of guy in here!

So, Gaily and his offense and his skill are irrelevant because at the end of the day your can't make a chicken sandwich without chicken, but you can always make a turd sandwich with whatever is lying around.

[trapezeus]

the thing is we got people who were so afraid of losing their jobs, they pulled in lesser coaches, which in jauron's case was actually kind of impressive that he could find NFL coaches worse than himself.

If gailey has a good relationship with nix and feels like he's not going to lose his job because the DC is doing a great job, he might actually try and fill that spot with a qualified person.

The only way to break the habit is to have capable people. that's what has been missing. i get what you are saying. we address an immediate concern and another problem takes shape.

[Mike]

We are Not Solving the Root Problem
Instead we are hacking away at the Symptoms

The Root Problems are Obvious as is their solution: Get a Top GM Talent Evaluator and Top Coaches who can teach!

The Symptoms: The offensive line is poor, QB sucks, we need a new one, Coaches Run the Ball to much, Coaches Pass the Ball too much, our defense sucks, our pass rush is no good, etc....

Instead of solving the real issue, we are trying to put a band aid on the problem, so our offense or defence may get a little better because of a coach change, but then another symptom arrises. In the very early 2000s our CB were getting Torched, our secondary sucked, Now our Secondary is one of the Best in the league but the 2ooo team and this team equally suck.

[justasportsfan]

So, Gaily and his offense and his skill are irrelevant because at the end of the day your can't make a chicken sandwich without chicken, but you can always make a turd sandwich with whatever is lying around.

Kordell, Tomzack, Fiedler , Thigpen disagrees with you.

[Mr. Pink]

Mularkey wasn't fired. He quit.

[trapezeus]

i think they have at least tried to address that this time. they changed the GM to a guy who's been around football and buildin gdecent teams for a long time. Nix is the solution they've picked. he isn't glamorous like cowher, but he isn't as awful as GM by committee.

Gailey may be the teacher they are looking for. he seems to get stuff out of his players. however, you are right. This year is a bandage year. Some pieces have to get installed to be built on. RB, and defensive line.

next year is going to be a QB, WR, OL, LB.

while its been a painful 10 years, you can't just poo poo the change without seeing what the change is. i know we've been conditioned to expect the worse, but this is the first time in 10 years that they gave the football guys the reigns and got out of their way.

[Jan Reimers]

The Root Problems are Obvious as is their solution: Get a Top GM Talent Evaluator and Top Coaches who can teach!
Nix is universally regarded as a fine talent evaluator, and Gailey as a very good teacher.

Why not give them a chance before saying nothing ever changes.

[Mr. Pink]

Nix is universally regarded as a fine talent evaluator, and Gailey as a very good teacher.

Why not give them a chance before saying nothing ever changes.


Because some people are snake bitten when we've received guys who allegedly knew how to get it done in the past.

We had Donahoe. Still have Modrak. Two guys who were allegedly great talent evaluators.

We had coaches who were good teachers and "knew" how to get it done. Mularkey, Gilbride, Greggie. Who did nothing here but have been successful in other stops in the NFL.

It's OK for people to be a little apprehensive about the hire.

[better days]

Because some people are snake bitten when we've received guys who allegedly knew how to get it done in the past.

We had Donahoe. Still have Modrak. Two guys who were allegedly great talent evaluators.

We had coaches who were good teachers and "knew" how to get it done. Mularkey, Gilbride, Greggie. Who did nothing here but have been successful in other stops in the NFL.

It's OK for people to be a little apprehensive about the hire.

Donahoe was not bad at getting players for the team. I would take any QB under him over what is on the roster today. His problem was he could not hire a decent HC.

[madness]

Donahoe's and Modrak's track record speak for themselves as talent evaluators and were successful everywhere but here for obvious reasons. Donahoe's problem was that he couldn't make a sound management decision if he tried which the Bills should have known when the giant red flag went up after him and Cowher couldn't co-exist.

Modrak was successful in Pittsburgh and Philly but really had no say in the FO until recently and it's been documented a few times he wanted guys that the Bills passed on.

Add to the picture Nix who's been largely credited for the Chargers drafts and a young Whaley who's name has been a hot name for the for the past few years, you can say nothing has changed all you want but the FO has been put in a position to succeed for the first time in a decade. They still have to prove they can turn the franchise around and obviously won't get the benefit of the doubt but they at least deserve the chance.

Little known fact: Whaley is known for his great scouting ability of 3-4 defenders... when he's not fwd'ing porn emails.

[mayotm]

Because some people are snake bitten when we've received guys who allegedly knew how to get it done in the past.

We had Donahoe. Still have Modrak. Two guys who were allegedly great talent evaluators.

We had coaches who were good teachers and "knew" how to get it done. Mularkey, Gilbride, Greggie. Who did nothing here but have been successful in other stops in the NFL.

It's OK for people to be a little apprehensive about the hire.It's also OK for people to support the hires.

[psubills62]

So I have to ask...what about this thread qualifies it for the "light bulb" symbol on the main page?

I am also wondering quite a bit about classifying Jauron as a "coach who focused more on passing." Maybe we should look at the stats:

2006: 431 passing attempts (31st in the league), 420 rushing attempts (27th in the league)
2007: 445 passing attempts (30th in the league), 448 rushing attempts (15th in the league)
2008: 479 passing attempts (22nd in the league), 439 rushing attempts (14th in the league)
2009: 441 passing attempts (30th in the league), 424 rushing attempts (16th in the league)

So granted, we did technically pass more than we ran in 3 out of 4 years. But compared to the rest of the league, we were more of a running team than passing every single year. And when you take into consideration that we've been a losing team every year, those passing stats are probably somewhat inflated by being behind in a higher number of games late. Thus, I definitely wouldn't call Jauron a coach focused on passing. I wouldn't say he focused on offense at any point, actually.

I personally don't see more of the same, and that's just in one draft. I see the FO getting playmakers - guys that we haven't had in how many years? When was the last time we really had a guy who could go the distance at any time? And I don't mean Parrish on punt returns. They also clearly focused on getting defensive players who are already good against the run, but have upside against the pass. Troup, Batten, Carrington, Moats, they are all known for being very good against the run.

I see a team moving to a defensive scheme that is inherently vulnerable against the run. However, the FO appears to be counteracting that by getting players who are good fits for the defense and are good against the run.

On Sunday, April 25th, I saw more of a direction for this franchise than I've seen in the last 4 years under Jauron. Will they be good this year? Probably not. But I don't see how you can say these guys are poor talent evaluators when their main draftees haven't even played a game.

It seems to me that this "light bulb" thread has been born out of a need for a big name in the front office or on the sidelines. That's all you seem to want.

[trapezeus]

donahoe's teams lacked a good coach to harness a top 5 defense. the coaches were his fault because he felt he lost his job due to cowher. so he wanted an easy coach to push around. Williams wasn't that bad of a pick (if hte team was younger and didn't know better). but he put him on a fairly old team that tuned him out immediately.

Mularkey was a bad pick and was another move by donahoe to get a puppet who didnt' disrupt the master.

jauron was straight up nepotism of old guy recommending an old guy to the oldest guy. and there was no one in the organization with a half a brain that could stop it.

of the last 10 years, i only truly find the last 4 to be incredibly maddening. in 2001-2005, it was just a streak of bad choices and bad luck that did us in.

the last 4 years, we had no talent, no coach, and no gm.

[JCBills]

What will happen is what has been happening for the past 10years. In the beginning for the 2000's we went with a Great Defense mind, and he really was great at defense. Our defense improved to #2 overall and we almost made the playoffs, but what was missing? Offence, so we fired our coach (who btw just won a SB ring for helping improve Saints Defense) and hired an offensive coach who was run oriented (Mularkey). That did not work, so we fired him and hired a Defensive Cover 2 Coach who focused more on Passing in Jouron. And after a few more years, we fired him and hired a an Offense Run first coach. Its like a see saw, it keeps going back and forth, without solving any of the original issues, like Talent evaluation, scouting, and getting the right people drafted and signed as FA.

The Bottom line is that the Bills do not have the personal to have a good offence or a good defense this year. Simply that is what is missing, and above all else we needed a great talent evaluator who could put the pieces together. A guy like Parcels, or Shanny, or Cowart, etc.... and we simply did not get that type of guy in here!

So, Gaily and his offense and his skill are irrelevant because at the end of the day your can't make a chicken sandwich without chicken, but you can always make a turd sandwich with whatever is lying around.

Isn't half of that why we signed Nix as our national scout last year, and all of that why he's running the show now?

[Oldbillsfan]

I like everything the good ole boys have done said and done so far. I'm optimistic.

[justasportsfan]

After a power struggle with Cowher , Donahoe wanted a yes man for his coach. That was his problem.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Little known fact: Whaley is known for his great scouting ability of 3-4 defenders... when he's not fwd'ing porn emails.
*resists urge to make Carl Paladino joke... thinks to self "save it for the Spin Zone..."*

[Spiderweb]

Mularkey wasn't fired. He quit.

Wasn't there a bit more to this? Seems I recall that Levy OK'd Mularkey staying, but there were some heavy strings attached.

They wanted him to quit so old Ralphie might escape paying Mularkey like he ultimately had to with Wade Philips.

Anyone....chip in on the details..

Mularkey quit, but after having been neutered.

[BillsWin]

Nix and Gailey feel different for some reason.

Nix is a genuine football guy with experience and a proven track record. A young man like Whaley now sits in waiting for Nix to retire, but not before he picks up a few things from a seasoned talent evaluator.

Gailey has gotten the most out of nothing when it comes to quarterbacks, a position that's been horrific for the Bills this decade. Gailey also comes as a guy with a good resume of offense, and the ability to not only teach his players solid fundamentals and execution, but discipline. Something that the Bills have lacked as an organization for a while now.

I think what the Bills did this season was smart. They went after the big fish, but when nothing bit they fell to revamping their front office and putting a guy in place who can coach at the playoff level.

The thing I like best about the moves this year is the organization of it all.

They bring in a very good talent evaluator with every intention of building through the draft rather than seeking the quick fix. They promote that man to GM.

They bring in a solid young front office guy in Whaley who is almost certain do do a solid job bringing in veterans who fit the schemes and philosophies of Nix.

But the best thing about this, is everyone is focused on the same plan and believes in it.

You hear all this talk from players about how with Jauron as head coach there was never one voice giving them direction. There were conflicting opinions and ideas coming from all different sources with no plan and no clear way of doing things.

I have been wondering lately if that's how the front office was being run as well....

We hear reports that Modrak and Nix didn't want Maybin, they thought he'd take too long to develop. But Jauron override them.

Maybe decisions at One Bills Dr. weren't as easily made as they should be. If everyone sticks to the same plan and are really focused on turning this ship around, then that's about all you can ask for when the Cowhers and Shanahans of the world turn you down.

[jamze132]

For the first time in many years, I feel confident in the direction we are moving. At least finally football people are running the show.

We had a prime time to make some playoffs when our defense was killer back in the day and sadly, it was wasted.

[Jan Reimers]

It's OK for people to be a little apprehensive about the hire.
I agree. But the thread starter basically says that because we didn't get Parcells, Shanahan or Cowher, that we won't be any good. He is far more than apprehensive. He trashes the Nix and Gailey hires before they even have a chance to prove themselves.

This "we've been bad in the past, so we'll be just as bad in the future until we hire [fill in the glamor name de jour]" irritates me. I simply believe in giving people a chance to succeed or fail on their own.

[Mahdi]

Kordell, Tomzack, Fiedler , Thigpen disagrees with you.
How far did their careers go?

[BillsWin]

How far did their careers go?

After Gailey? No where. But with Gailey they experienced some success.

[acehole]

Core issue?

We don't have the money the big boys do.
We have to catch lighning in a bottle in consecutive
drafts and find gems in 2nd tier Fa's and maybe plug
in one or two big name FA in last year. Hope they play
well.Then we have to hope the scheme and stars are
alined and the ball bounces our way.

Bottom line for us.

[Jan Reimers]

After Gailey? No where. But with Gailey they experienced some success.
And that was justa's point. That Gailey got a lot of milage out of QBs who were not very good, and never did much without him.

[trapezeus]

he ended up in the playoffs. one thing i hate about the last 4 years is that wins were almost meaningless. there were only maybe 2 wins a season in sept through oct where it felt like, "ohhh, we're in the thick of things." then we'd lose and lose badly for 4 weeks, and then 3 wins would be so irritating to win, and then a win in garbage time.

It made the season so worthless. if gailey can make the wins enjoyable, i'm going to give gailey a ton of credit. i don't really remember feeling joy from bills win on a regular basis since that bizarre run in 2004.

[justasportsfan]

After Gailey? No where. But with Gailey they experienced some success.

We have a winner. Add Thigpen to that list. Gailey got something out of him.

[Mike]

I agree. But the thread starter basically says that because we didn't get Parcells, Shanahan or Cowher, that we won't be any good. He is far more than apprehensive. He trashes the Nix and Gailey hires before they even have a chance to prove themselves.

I don't like the argument of giving everyone a chance and having them prove themselves because it is this type of thinking that got us here in the first place. We tried to give DJ a second chance, and allow him to prove himself. His situation Chicago was difficult and he still won Coach of the Year with a no-name QB and no stars! Obviouly we should of given him a chance. Now it's Gailies turn.

The logIc of giving everyone a chance and not knowing what you have until they prove themselves is falty. Imagine if they hired your Grandma as a coach, would you still make the same argument, and if not why not? Becuase some hires are just obviously bad, or not great (gaily).

As far as proving oneself. DJ, Gaily, and all other coaches are proving themselves on a constant basis. They have Bern coaches before and we know what we will get and what we won't get.

I think Gaily is at best a middle of the road coach, he is not great, he is hopefully not dreadful. In order for him to produce a winner, he will need really good pieces, and even with such pieces we won't be great. There are only a few great coaches per generation who go on to win SBs and I don't think Gaily is one if those types of guys. BTW that should be our goal, hopefully

[Mike]

Core issue?

We don't have the money the big boys do.
We have to catch lighning in a bottle in consecutive
drafts and find gems in 2nd tier Fa's and maybe plug
in one or two big name FA in last year. Hope they play
well.Then we have to hope the scheme and stars are
alined and the ball bounces our way.

Bottom line for us.


there is something called a salery cap, so the big can not outspend us if we choose to spend on players. There is a thread on her that shows how much we are spending vs other teams. You will see that the Bills are actually spending more than both the Cowboys and the Patriots!!! Yes, in thus case we are outspending the big boys, difference is their $$$$ go towards superstars while ours go towads scrubs with 'potential'!!!

[justasportsfan]

There are no guarantees in this league whether you have a proven coach or a new coach.

If teams didn't give coaches asecond chance then the PAts wouldn't have a dynasty. The giants wouldnt have won a sb with their current coaches.

The broncos arguably have a better team than when Shanahan left and this is with a rookie coach in McDaniels. Time will tell where the broncos are headed and if Shanahan can build a SB team in Washington.

Did we screw up with Dick? Certainly. But teams like the fins did screw up with guys Cameron and replaced him with a first time coach like Sparano who so far has done a decent job. Same goes for 1st time jets coach, Ryan.

THe saints hired a first time coach and ended up with a SB.

If we hired either Peyton ,Sparano or Ryan, people would be complaining too . So no matter who we hire, we're screwed.

[Mike]

There are no guarantees in this league whether you have a proven coach or a new coach.

If teams didn't give coaches asecond chance then the PAts wouldn't have a dynasty. The giants wouldnt have won a sb with their current coaches.

The broncos arguably have a better team than when Shanahan left and this is with a rookie coach in McDaniels. Time will tell where the broncos are headed and if Shanahan can build a SB team in Washington.

Did we screw up with Dick? Certainly. But teams like the fins did screw up with guys Cameron and replaced him with a first time coach like Sparano who so far has done a decent job. Same goes for 1st time jets coach, Ryan.

THe saints hired a first time coach and ended up with a SB.

If we hired either Peyton ,Sparano or Ryan, people would be complaining too . So no matter who we hire, we're screwed.

I think at our level, the level that the Bills organization is at, picking a Head Coach, or even a Player is a total crap shoot. On this I agree with you a hundred percent. In fact, the Bills are worst than random chance. If a monkey was random picking a coach for us out of a pool of candidates, the monkey might have gotten one right by now.

I also think that the really good GMs know how to pick a good coach, and get good players. One guy that has been exceptionally consistent on this has been Bill Parcels. He has his formula, his ways, and what he is doing works! (FYI he started by winning a SBs with what was a poor Giants Team, then took over for one of the loosing-est franchises in the Pats and also took them to SB, then turned around a 1-15 Jets team and took them to playoffs following year and eventually to AFC championship game, he turned a perennial loosing Cowboys team into a winning team, then he turned our the 1-15 Dolphins and got them to win a very stout AFC East Division the following year! Now that is way better than random chance)

[Mike]

Bill Polian is also an example of a Great GM who has had a good track record of hiring the right coaches.