Still think we should have drafted Cody?

[BillsWin]

Ravens rookie NT Terrence Cody didn't pass his conditioning test for training camp and hasn't begun practicing.
No further details are available, although Cody's weight has been an issue dating back to his JUCO and high school days. It's uncertain when he'll return.


LINK (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5770&ft=176080)

[Stewie]

Many, many Bills fans should try some salt on their crow for lunch today, and remember this the next time they use past failure as a crutch for crotchety arguments.

[OpIv37]

I still wish we had done something about NT other than drafting Troup and signing Harvey. Cue "band aid on cancer" comment.

[justasportsfan]

I still wish we had done something about NT other than drafting Troup and signing Harvey. Cue "band aid on cancer" comment.

We can't fill all positions in one year.

[Ickybaluky]

I doubt his flunking the conditioning test really raises a red flag. The kid is a rookie and a NT, I'm sure he never had anything like a conditioning test at the start of camp before.

Personally, I'd rather have Code than Terrell Troup, but I think Cody is going to be a tremendous run-stuffer in the NFL. He won't ever play more than 50% of the snaps, but he will be an impact run defender.

I mean, Casey Hampton flunks the Steeler's conditioning test every year. I guess you wouldn't want him either? I know Ted Washington flunked the conditioning test at the start of camp in his one year with the Pats. Buffalo fans will remember how good he was.

[Stewie]

I doubt his flunking the conditioning test really raises a red flag.

I'm pretty sure failing a conditioning test is a red flag, whether you're a rookie, a vet, or a 45 year old dentist with a coronary.

[Ickybaluky]

I'm pretty sure failing a conditioning test is a red flag, whether you're a rookie, a vet, or a 45 year old dentist with a coronary.

No it isn't, especially not for a nose tackle.

The conditioning test is a series of sprints, and a lot of big guys flunk it annually. Doesn't mean they are not good players.

[justasportsfan]

I doubt his flunking the conditioning test really raises a red flag. The kid is a rookie and a NT, I'm sure he never had anything like a conditioning test at the start of camp before.

Personally, I'd rather have Code than Terrell Troup, but I think Cody is going to be a tremendous run-stuffer in the NFL. He won't ever play more than 50% of the snaps, but he will be an impact run defender.

I mean, Casey Hampton flunks the Steeler's conditioning test every year. I guess you wouldn't want him either? I know Ted Washington flunked the conditioning test at the start of camp in his one year with the Pats. Buffalo fans will remember how good he was.
For every Casey Hamptom, there are guys like Russell and Mike Williams (RT). Although they play different positions, you can't simply say, "that's nothing" either.

[Stewie]

We needed a competitive three-down DT, in the worst possible way. We got one. If we had a roster full of 3-4 DT's, maybe we could pick a fat kid with potential. But the same people ripping this team for other potential based picks ripped a young kid who can fill a current need and stay away from the buffet table. And an old GM who realized it.

[Stewie]

No it isn't, especially not for a nose tackle.

The conditioning test is a series of sprints, and a lot of big guys flunk it annually. Doesn't mean they are not good players.
I totally 100% disagree with you, and so does the NFL. In fact, they disagree with you so much that they fly out all the rookies to a big symposium every year, on their own dime, and try to teach them about life. How to handle themselves, women, money. The buffet table. And how they're under a microscope, from the public, the media, their team, and the league. Forgive my sarcasm, I know you know all of this, I"m just trying to be funny in a rude way.

You're talking about a 20 year old kid with a weight and conditioning problem. If you don't think that's a red flag, I don't think you know what a red flag is.

The prudent team will recognize it, and help him overcome it. And I'm sure he's doing pushups right now.

[Ickybaluky]

For every Casey Hamptom, there are guys like Russell and Mike Williams (RT). Although they play different positions, you can't simply say, "that's nothing" either.

I really don't see it as a big issue, it happens every year. It is a series of sprints, and a lot of big guys have trouble running it, especially if they never did it before and weren't prepared. It really isn't indicative of how good a player the guy is, especially a big guy. Walt Harris also failed the test today, BTW.

Antwoine Harris used to fail the Pats conditioning test every year, because he was a 235 lb. guy running sprints with guys a lot smaller. Damien Woody failed it several times with the Pats as well. Matt Roth failed the conditioning test at the start of camp in Miami. Larry Allen failed the conditioning test at the start of camp with the Cowboys when Parcells took over, and he is one of the best OL in NFL history.

Cody will probably miss a couple days of camp until he is able to pass it. Just like Ted Washington and Casey Hampton did, before they clogged up the middle for their teams. It is hardly a red flag. It is much ado about nothing.

[Ickybaluky]

You're talking about a 20 year old kid with a weight and conditioning problem. If you don't think that's a red flag, I don't think you know what a red flag is.

Was it a red flag with Casey Hampton?

Was it a red flag with Larry Allen?

Was it a red flag with Damien Woody?

This isn't the big deal you are making it out to be. He will get on the field soon and it will come down to whether he can play or not. To think whether a NT can run a series of sprints in a certain time is a red flag is silly. It is more like "Welcome to the NFL".

[OpIv37]

We can't fill all positions in one year.

And what positions did we fill this year? RB and.... RB. Great.

[justasportsfan]

Cody will probably miss a couple days of camp until he is able to pass it. Just like Ted Washington and Casey Hampton did, before they clogged up the middle for their teams. It is hardly a red flag. It is much ado about nothing.
I could be wrong but I doubt Ted was overweight when he went to his first few camps. He most likely reported overweight when he was already a proven player. Cody hasn't even played a single down yet.

[justasportsfan]

And what positions did we fill this year? RB and.... RB. Great.
you may not like the who we drafted but we did grab some OL , and a couple of NT's ,lb'ers .

[DraftBoy]

We needed a competitive three-down DT, in the worst possible way. We got one. If we had a roster full of 3-4 DT's, maybe we could pick a fat kid with potential. But the same people ripping this team for other potential based picks ripped a young kid who can fill a current need and stay away from the buffet table. And an old GM who realized it.

No we don't we need a dominant 2 down NT and a guy who can push the pocket and rush the passer on 3rd down.

This is not the same position as a 4-3 DT where they play all three downs, you need two NT's because they will rotate so frequently. Very rarely do you have a 3-4 NT who ever plays all three downs consistently.

[DraftBoy]

I'm pretty sure failing a conditioning test is a red flag, whether you're a rookie, a vet, or a 45 year old dentist with a coronary.

Really doesn't matter at all. It was expected Cody has a weight issue and didnt pass the same type test in the minicamps or at Bama. Says nothing about how he'll be as a player, he's just now gotta go through extra medical stuff to get cleared. Not a huge deal, he'll miss 2-3 days.

[ChristopherWalken]

His Coach obviously thought it an issue:

Ravens coach John Harbaugh said, "When he passes the conditioning test, he'll practice."

[DraftBoy]

His Coach obviously thought it an issue:

Ravens coach John Harbaugh said, "When he passes the conditioning test, he'll practice."

That's a rule, every player on every team has to pass a conditioning test to practice.

[Stewie]

Was it a red flag with Casey Hampton?

Was it a red flag with Larry Allen?

Was it a red flag with Damien Woody?



Yes,

Yes,

and Yes.

Why are you equating red flag with fail? A red flag is a warning. A warning is to be used as input by decision makers, ie, right now his strength and conditioning coach. Who is probably having fatso do pushups. Just like the other guys you mentioned.

I'm not making it to be a big deal. It's a red flag, something to be monitored. Whether or not you think having a weight problem when you're 20 is a big deal is irrelevant. I think it's a warning, especially when said 20 year old is going to be paid a lot of money to be a productive athlete.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I still wish we had done something about NT other than drafting Troup and signing Harvey. Cue "band aid on cancer" comment.
How is drafting a Talented NT in the second round not "something"

[k-oneputt]

Meaningless.
His job is to stuff the run and he will do it very well.

[ddaryl]

I knew Cody was on the board... But Troup seems to be a much of a match for Buffalos needs

AND he is known as a worker who can play 3 downs.

Who in the world would want a 2 down player at any position, especially a college rookie who should be in good enough shape and not beat down from years of pro ball.... I know they'll rotate NT's in BUT... IMO if you can't play 3 downs as a rookie or 3-4 year vet you're not deserving of being in the league... When the body starts breaking down and yuo have years of experience ot draw from 2 down ball from such a player is acceptable... but not from a rookie

Cody being this out of shape before training camp just screams how much better a pick Troup was over Cody... If you can't motivate yourself in your rookie year it will just go down hill from there as it does 9 times outta 10 with such players

Nix 1 - doubters 0

[k-oneputt]

According to some we used the 9th pick on a part-time rb.
I don't believe it though.

[DraftBoy]

I knew Cody was on the board... But Troup seems to be a much of a match for Buffalos needs

AND he is known as a worker who can play 3 downs.
Who in the world would want a 2 down player at any position, especially a college rookie who should be in good enough shape and not beat down from years of pro ball.... I know they'll rotate NT's in BUT... IMO if you can't play 3 downs as a rookie or 3-4 year vet you're not deserving of being in the league... When the body starts breaking down and yuo have years of experience ot draw from 2 down ball from such a player is acceptable... but not from a rookie

Cody being this out of shape before training camp just screams how much better a pick Troup was over Cody...

Nix 1 - doubters 0

Prove the bolded. Never played the NT spot before, never had to play in a 3-4. You're reach on that comment, and we dont know if Cody is a better fit that Troup at this point. Cody will play DE and NT for Baltimore, we haven't heard about Troup yet potentially playing DE.

[k-oneputt]

Time will tell who was the better pick, Troup or Cody.

The Bills track record hasn't been very good in these decisions the last ten years.

[Philagape]

What's the over/under on how many posters would change their tune about the conditioning test if Troup failed it? That would be funny.

[justasportsfan]

if we drafted Cody and didn't pass the physical here , people here would be calling out our FO and saying we drafted the wrong guy. It's a lose-lose situation for the new FO.

[DesertFox24]

Prove the bolded. Never played the NT spot before, never had to play in a 3-4. You're reach on that comment, and we dont know if Cody is a better fit that Troup at this point. Cody will play DE and NT for Baltimore, we haven't heard about Troup yet potentially playing DE.

Cody is a fat guy that out weighed COLLEGE GUARDS and was on a DL that was very talented, the RE will be a high first round pick and the other guy was 310 LE that was drafted by the Pats. Cody did 19 reps on the bench, one would think that through 4 years of college 2 at BAMA that he would have done more reps than TEs, RBs, WRs, and DBs.

Troup on the other hand played with no one on his DL and consistently stuff the running game. Against Miami last year Miami had -8 yards rushing in the first half and finished the game with 40-70 (can't remember), but the game was out of hand in 4th and they just ran clock out. Troup also did 35 reps on the bench press, which shows he is a hard worker.

When I see bench numbers you can tell if a guy worked hard to be the best or just did the bare minimum. Guys like Troup and Okung really impressed with their numbers and the fact that both have really long arms.

Does this mean Troup will be a better player than Cody, no, but what it means is Nix wants workers on his team. Because in the NFL you will not overpower OL with your weight, it takes technique, desire, and work ethic.

[DraftBoy]

Cody is a fat guy that out weighed COLLEGE GUARDS and was on a DL that was very talented, the RE will be a high first round pick and the other guy was 310 LE that was drafted by the Pats. Cody did 19 reps on the bench, one would think that through 4 years of college 2 at BAMA that he would have done more reps than TEs, RBs, WRs, and DBs.

Troup on the other hand played with no one on his DL and consistently stuff the running game. Against Miami last year Miami had -8 yards rushing in the first half and finished the game with 40-70 (can't remember), but the game was out of hand in 4th and they just ran clock out. Troup also did 35 reps on the bench press, which shows he is a hard worker.

When I see bench numbers you can tell if a guy worked hard to be the best or just did the bare minimum. Guys like Troup and Okung really impressed with their numbers and the fact that both have really long arms.

Does this mean Troup will be a better player than Cody, no, but what it means is Nix wants workers on his team. Because in the NFL you will not overpower OL with your weight, it takes technique, desire, and work ethic.

The bolded is where you lost the post because its not true. Troup had two outstanding DE's flanking him in Jarvis Geathers and Bruce Miller. Bruce Miller who is the preseason C-USA Defensive Player of the Year this season. Troup had lots of help on his line.

If bench press numbers show you're a hard worker than Leif Larsen should of been a super star. I understand the want to defend the Troup pick and truthfully I think he will be a very effective NT for us in time, but let's not go overboard analyzing something as small as bench press reps. Besides in a NT the lower body strength is more important than upper body strength when being asked to anchor as both Cody and Troup will be.

[bigfish2112]

Because Troup can bench press 225 pounds 36 times and squats 670 pounds, he often requires two blockers to stop him. And that frees up Miller, Jarvis Geathers (http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/geathers_jarvis00.html) (11 sacks) and Darius Nall (http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/nall_darius00.html) (four sacks) on the outside for one-on-one blocking and ultimately plenty of sacks. Factor in the athleticism and power of tackle Travis Timmons (http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/timmons_travis00.html) and UCF's ends have been able to keep pressure on quarterbacks coming off the edge. "We know that we're able to do what we're doing on the outside because the defense is having to pay so much attention to Torrell and Travis in the middle," Miller said. "A lot of what we do is based on those guys.
Sorry but this guys strength is his lower body he is a beast he will be a good NT with work.http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121009aae.html

[DraftBoy]

Because Troup can bench press 225 pounds 36 times and squats 670 pounds, he often requires two blockers to stop him. And that frees up Miller, Jarvis Geathers (http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/geathers_jarvis00.html) (11 sacks) and Darius Nall (http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/nall_darius00.html) (four sacks) on the outside for one-on-one blocking and ultimately plenty of sacks. Factor in the athleticism and power of tackle Travis Timmons (http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/timmons_travis00.html) and UCF's ends have been able to keep pressure on quarterbacks coming off the edge. "We know that we're able to do what we're doing on the outside because the defense is having to pay so much attention to Torrell and Travis in the middle," Miller said. "A lot of what we do is based on those guys.
Sorry but this guys strength is his lower body he is a beast he will be a good NT with work.

:poundsheadagainstwall:

Where did anyone question Troup's lower body strength?

[DesertFox24]

The bolded is where you lost the post because its not true. Troup had two outstanding DE's flanking him in Jarvis Geathers and Bruce Miller. Bruce Miller who is the preseason C-USA Defensive Player of the Year this season. Troup had lots of help on his line.

If bench press numbers show you're a hard worker than Leif Larsen should of been a super star. I understand the want to defend the Troup pick and truthfully I think he will be a very effective NT for us in time, but let's not go overboard analyzing something as small as bench press reps. Besides in a NT the lower body strength is more important than upper body strength when being asked to anchor as both Cody and Troup will be.

Apologies on the no talent on DL comment, do not get a lot of UCF games in South Carolina.

Also Troup did 800 pounds on the squat, so I believe he will be more than adequate in that department.

Just for me personally I was not a fan of Cody and did not want to draft him, I thought they would but was glad they passed. I like Troup, Joseph, and Thomas a lot, but the more I read about Joseph he is more of a 5 technique or 3 technique and was not a good fit for the 34 0 technique. Also it is not like troup is undersized the guy is probably going to play this year at 320 and is brutally strong.

Clearly you did not read my statement about bench press and confused that for the definition of super star. My point was that Troup has longer arms that Cody and from his story you can see that he worked his butt off, is smart, and his teammates respected him and his work ethic as he was a captain. Bench press is not a determining factor in how good a player is but it is a good indicator on how much the player worked and if football and conditioning in the off season is more important.

[OpIv37]

How is drafting a Talented NT in the second round not "something"

The NT position is key to a 3-4 D. DT's, particularly 3-4 NT's, take a season or two to develop. They're not "plug and play" like kick returners or RB's.

You may be ok with "if Troup isn't a bust, we'll be all set at NT in 2012," but I'm not.

[DesertFox24]

The NT position is key to a 3-4 D. DT's, particularly 3-4 NT's, take a season or two to develop. They're not "plug and play" like kick returners or RB's.

You may be ok with "if Troup isn't a bust, we'll be all set at NT in 2012," but I'm not.

Bro relax its not like Jason Ferguson or Jay Ratlif were the biggest NTs and those defenses did fine. Lets see how Kyle, Troup, and Harvey do before we say it is a problem.

The good thing is we get to watch our first preseason game live on the 13th, I CAN'T WAIT. I love watching the preseason games.

[justasportsfan]

The NT position is key to a 3-4 D. DT's, particularly 3-4 NT's, take a season or two to develop. They're not "plug and play" like kick returners or RB's.

You may be ok with "if Troup isn't a bust, we'll be all set at NT in 2012," but I'm not.
so what would you have done at that position?

[DraftBoy]

Apologies on the no talent on DL comment, do not get a lot of UCF games in South Carolina.

Also Troup did 800 pounds on the squat, so I believe he will be more than adequate in that department.

Just for me personally I was not a fan of Cody and did not want to draft him, I thought they would but was glad they passed. I like Troup, Joseph, and Thomas a lot, but the more I read about Joseph he is more of a 5 technique or 3 technique and was not a good fit for the 34 0 technique. Also it is not like troup is undersized the guy is probably going to play this year at 320 and is brutally strong.

Clearly you did not read my statement about bench press and confused that for the definition of super star. My point was that Troup has longer arms that Cody and from his story you can see that he worked his butt off, is smart, and his teammates respected him and his work ethic as he was a captain. Bench press is not a determining factor in how good a player is but it is a good indicator on how much the player worked and if football and conditioning in the off season is more important.

Not a big deal on the no talent comment, I scout the C-USA so I know all about them. Wasn't calling you out, just pointing out a mistake.

He could of done a 1000 pounds on the squat Im not questioning his lower body strength, Im talking about the relevance of lifting any weights to on field performance. Cody was doing 700 pound squats as of three years ago.

I was not a fan of Joseph either coming out or Cody. However the need to bash any non-Bills pick and defend every Bills pick is where I take issue. Not saying that's what you were doing but my purpose here was not to say that Troup sucks and Cody will be awesome, but rather to point out that these conditioning tests are no big deal, they are failed every season by some of the best players in the entire league and people who want to make a big deal out of it, are doing so for no real reason. Unless it prevents him from playing on Sunday (which it hasn't in the past on Saturdays) its not a huge deal.

[OpIv37]

so what would you have done at that position?

Christ, I already answered this question. I don't have time to dig it up now.

[better days]

The NT position is key to a 3-4 D. DT's, particularly 3-4 NT's, take a season or two to develop. They're not "plug and play" like kick returners or RB's.

You may be ok with "if Troup isn't a bust, we'll be all set at NT in 2012," but I'm not.

So you expected the Bills to compete for the Super bowl this year?

[OpIv37]

Bro relax its not like Jason Ferguson or Jay Ratlif were the biggest NTs and those defenses did fine. Lets see how Kyle, Troup, and Harvey do before we say it is a problem.

The good thing is we get to watch our first preseason game live on the 13th, I CAN'T WAIT. I love watching the preseason games.

Using the Ratliff example is the exception to prove the rule, but I'm not worried about that at the moment.

I'm worried about the fact that we need a true 3-4 NT NOW and we don't have a single proven one on the roster. Troup may or may not be a good player, but it's highly unlikely that he's going to be a good player in a little over 6 weeks when the real games start.

[justasportsfan]

but it's highly unlikely that he's going to be a good player in a little over 6 weeks when the real games start.
in case you missed it, Nix and co. didn't make moves to win in six weeks. They flat out already told you that.

[OpIv37]

So you expected the Bills to compete for the Super bowl this year?

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

After the new coaches decided to run the 3-4, the biggest holes on this team were: QB, LT, 3-4 NT, WR, DE. We also had several lesser holes.

Now, I'm well aware that this is too much to address in one off-season. But not a single one of those 5 positions was sufficiently addressed. NOT ONE.

I never expected SB but I expect better than that.

[OpIv37]

in case you missed it, Nix and co. didn't make moves to win in six weeks. They flat out already told you that.

rebuilding is about improving. No one expects 0-60 mph. I expected at least 0-25. Instead, we went in reverse. The only position where we are clearly better than last year is RB, and that was our 2nd best position as it was.

[justasportsfan]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

After the new coaches decided to run the 3-4, the biggest holes on this team were: QB, LT, 3-4 NT, WR, DE. We also had several lesser holes.

Now, I'm well aware that this is too much to address in one off-season. But not a single one of those 5 positions was sufficiently addressed. NOT ONE.

I never expected SB but I expect better than that.

too early to tell even for you. Remember, you were instantly happy with the Dockery , Wlaker moves and it turns out they weren't sufficient.

[PromoTheRobot]

I still wish we had done something about NT other than drafting Troup and signing Harvey. Cue "band aid on cancer" comment.
You mean like draft a franchise NT like Terrence Cody?

PTR

[DesertFox24]

Not a big deal on the no talent comment, I scout the C-USA so I know all about them. Wasn't calling you out, just pointing out a mistake.

He could of done a 1000 pounds on the squat Im not questioning his lower body strength, Im talking about the relevance of lifting any weights to on field performance. Cody was doing 700 pound squats as of three years ago.

I was not a fan of Joseph either coming out or Cody. However the need to bash any non-Bills pick and defend every Bills pick is where I take issue. Not saying that's what you were doing but my purpose here was not to say that Troup sucks and Cody will be awesome, but rather to point out that these conditioning tests are no big deal, they are failed every season by some of the best players in the entire league and people who want to make a big deal out of it, are doing so for no real reason. Unless it prevents him from playing on Sunday (which it hasn't in the past on Saturdays) its not a huge deal.

Oh I agree with you on that, the other 31 teams took good players as well. Does Cody failing the conditioning test make him a bad prospect no, but to me and probably his team it is an indicator of what he did this offseason.

When I played college basketball we used to get mad at guys that came back from summer out of shape, it was disrespectful to the guys that worked hard to stay in shape and get better, that was my point.

[justasportsfan]

rebuilding is about improving. No one expects 0-60 mph. I expected at least 0-25. Instead, we went in reverse. The only position where we are clearly better than last year is RB, and that was our 2nd best position as it was.


the only way you don't go in reverse is to keep the same system .It was obvious we HAD TO go on reverse because we don't have the prototype players that fit the new scheme and those that might will have to learn a system they never played in before.

[OpIv37]

You mean like draft a franchise NT like Terrence Cody?

PTR

Oh, sorry- I didn't realize that Cody and Troup were the only NT's in the entire NFL.

[PromoTheRobot]

Many, many Bills fans should try some salt on their crow for lunch today, and remember this the next time they use past failure as a crutch for crotchety arguments.
The excuse-makers are out in full force. They explain away why this isn't a big deal about Cody, but you can imagine the fire and brimstone they'd rain on the Bills FO if this happened with Troup...who by the way, showed up in shape.

PTR

[OpIv37]

the only way you don't go in reverse is to keep the same system .It was obvious we HAD TO go on reverse because we don't have the prototype players that fit the new scheme and those that might will have to learn a system they never played in before.

rebuilding is about improving. How are we better than last year? Right now, we're not.

And again, I'm not talking about going to the SB. I'm talking about going from 6 wins to 7 or 8.

[DesertFox24]

rebuilding is about improving. No one expects 0-60 mph. I expected at least 0-25. Instead, we went in reverse. The only position where we are clearly better than last year is RB, and that was our 2nd best position as it was.

I disagree about the going in reverse, yes the change to a 34 D is going to have growing pains, but if we did not make the change now Chan would not be able to do it. I think in the long run this is a better defense for us as we will be bigger and be able to hold up to stop the run in December.

I know no one is disagreeing with the change, but unfortunately it is something we are going to have to live with this year. That being said I believe the three players we added to the DL and the 4 players we added the LB corps will at the very least help prevent a reverse.

[DraftBoy]

The excuse-makers are out in full force. They explain away why this isn't a big deal about Cody, but you can imagine the fire and brimstone they'd rain on the Bills FO if this happened with Troup...who by the way, showed up in shape.

PTR

Ummm...Camp hasn't started yet, and he doesnt have a contract. So we dont know if he will pass our fail.

[DraftBoy]

Oh I agree with you on that, the other 31 teams took good players as well. Does Cody failing the conditioning test make him a bad prospect no, but to me and probably his team it is an indicator of what he did this offseason.

When I played college basketball we used to get mad at guys that came back from summer out of shape, it was disrespectful to the guys that worked hard to stay in shape and get better, that was my point.

Cody did what he always does, he ate and worked out a little. He's not horribly out of shape but he couldnt play this weekend if the seasons started tomorrow. He was that way in JUCO, at Bama, and will be here. Baltimore knew that and many others did as well, which is why I said its not really a big deal to me.

I think its very disrespectful but Cody is not the brightest bulb.

[justasportsfan]

rebuilding is about improving. How are we better than last year? Right now, we're not.

And again, I'm not talking about going to the SB. I'm talking about going from 6 wins to 7 or 8.


Sometimes you have to tear down the old building to put up a new one. Put up a new foundation but keep some of the furnitures.

Maybe you were expecting a remodelling

[DesertFox24]

Cody did what he always does, he ate and worked out a little. He's not horribly out of shape but he couldnt play this weekend if the seasons started tomorrow. He was that way in JUCO, at Bama, and will be here. Baltimore knew that and many others did as well, which is why I said its not really a big deal to me.

I think its very disrespectful but Cody is not the brightest bulb.
True. I just do not want those kind of guys on this team, and would not draft them if I was GM.

Knowing what I know now about Dez I would not have drafted him either, and I really liked him draft time.

[ddaryl]

rebuilding is about improving. How are we better than last year? Right now, we're not.

And again, I'm not talking about going to the SB. I'm talking about going from 6 wins to 7 or 8.


Were a ton better then last year

We got rid of Jauron...


This process of rebuilding yet again started the moment we hired Nix.... Now we all need ot sit back and let Nix and Gailey do their jobs and just hope they get it right.


as for "talent" argument.... There is no FA that would come to this team in its 4th rebuild project in 10 years. therefore we need to draft the core and maintain what solid players we do have... In 2011 will draft some more and hopefully players will develope under Gailey so we have a solid core on this team to build around, and FA's feel is on the right track enough to want to play here.

SO yes this team is tremendously better off IMO with Nix and Gailey... so stop the obsessive pre-camp negative BS that you ramp up every single year at this time.

[OpIv37]

Were a ton better then last year

We got rid of Jauron...


This process of rebuilding yet again started the moment we hired Nix.... Now we all need ot sit back and let Nix and Gailey do their jobs and just hope they get it right.


as for "talent" argument.... There is no FA that would come to this team in its 4th rebuild project in 10 years. therefore we need to draft the core and maintain what solid players we do have... In 2011 will draft some more and hopefully players will develope under Gailey so we have a solid core on this team to build around, and FA's feel is on the right track enough to want to play here.

SO yes this team is tremendously better off IMO with Nix and Gailey... so stop the obsessive pre-camp negative BS that you ramp up every single year at this time.

yeah... too bad it's been RIGHT every single year.

[ddaryl]

True. I just do not want those kind of guys on this team, and would not draft them if I was GM.

Knowing what I know now about Dez I would not have drafted him either, and I really liked him draft time.

I fully agree... if a player cannot self motivate himself to be in shape for the his 1st training camp then that player is not worth pursuing.

If I was GM I would never attempt to sign or draft a player who couldn't stay motivated enough to be in shape for training camp....

Winners are self motivated

[ddaryl]

yeah... too bad it's been RIGHT every single year.

Who the **** cares about your every single year crap

This is a new season, new GM new coach and a boat load of new players., At least be intelligent enough to realize where we are at this point and why your grand delusion of whatever it is your dellusioning about is just rediculous.

This team was not going to be a playoff contender instantly UNLESS Gailey turns out to be Coach of the Decade no matter what scenario you throw out there.

We purged players who came from a failed regime and we are rebuildsing so accept the fact that this season is only about 1 thing and 1 thing only.... Does the team improve and become consistent as the year moves forward. Does this team play some impressive games during the year and show some flashes of being a good team moving forward... That is exactly the only thought anyone here can or should have giving our 10 + years of reatrded decision making that hopefully ended this year.

[BertSquirtgum]

rebuilding is about improving. How are we better than last year? Right now, we're not.

And again, I'm not talking about going to the SB. I'm talking about going from 6 wins to 7 or 8.

dude, shut the hell up. there's no way to prove one way or the other whether this team is better than last year yet. it's so ****ing old OP.

[Philagape]

rebuilding is about improving. How are we better than last year? Right now, we're not.

And again, I'm not talking about going to the SB. I'm talking about going from 6 wins to 7 or 8.

How about coaching? That could mean one or two more wins right there.

[Bill Cody]

I doubt his flunking the conditioning test really raises a red flag.

It didn't need to raise one. That flag was already up. It's why a guy of his talent lasted as long as he did before he was picked. Sure NT's don't need to be able to run 40 yards at a clip. But they do need stamina. Cody is a biscuit away from eating his way out the league before he gets started. If you don't think a 20 year old kid who is already morbidly obese is a risk you're delusional. It was a risk the Ravens were willing to take but a risk nonetheless. It could go either way with Cody. Failing the conditioning run doesn't make the situation any different than it already was.

[OpIv37]

Who the **** cares about your every single year crap

This is a new season, new GM new coach and a boat load of new players., At least be intelligent enough to realize where we are at this point and why your grand delusion of whatever it is your dellusioning about is just rediculous.

This team was not going to be a playoff contender instantly UNLESS Gailey turns out to be Coach of the Decade no matter what scenario you throw out there.

We purged players who came from a failed regime and we are rebuildsing so accept the fact that this season is only about 1 thing and 1 thing only.... Does the team improve and become consistent as the year moves forward. Does this team play some impressive games during the year and show some flashes of being a good team moving forward... That is exactly the only thought anyone here can or should have giving our 10 + years of reatrded decision making that hopefully ended this year.

You want to talk about intelligence?

We have a coach who hasn't been an NFL head coach in 10 years, and whose last two NFL stints as OC with the Dolphins and Chiefs were less than stellar. Yes, he's the anti- Jauron, which is good, but that alone doesn't necessarily make him good enough.

We still have Ralph, Brandon, Overdorf and Modrak running things.

The "boatload" of new players are all either rookies or journeymen, and most will do little to improve the team this year.

Yes, this year is about rebuilding. Rebuilding means incremental improvement. The intelligent view is that a lot of things that are the same or very similar to what we've done in the past and a few things that are different. And intelligence will tell you that different does not mean better.

[OpIv37]

How about coaching? That could mean one or two more wins right there.

it's possible, but with new schemes on both sides of the ball and the lack of talent we have, it's unlikely.

[BertSquirtgum]

same ****, different pile, op. i don't think it will ever change with you.

[Bill Cody]

I still wish we had done something about NT other than drafting Troup and signing Harvey. Cue "band aid on cancer" comment.

Doesn't that all depend on how good Troup is? A 2nd round pick is a significant investment in the position, not a band aid. And don't start in about no sure things in the draft. We all know that. But we also know rebuilding is mostly done through the draft. If we draft well we'll rebuild. If we don't we'll continue to suck and Buddy Nix will be looking for work. This isn't complicated.

[justasportsfan]

Rebuilding means incremental improvement. .


Dick is gone. The crappy philosophy play not to lose is gone. A GM with a good eye for talent is now calling the shots. No more club resosrt camps. I say those are some incremental improvements.

NO matter who we brought in as the coach even BB, it would have been the same process. We would have had to tear down this team because of Dicks mess.

[Philagape]

same ****, different pile, op. i don't think it will ever change with you.

That describes the Bills for last 10 years.

So why do some people get more upset with posters than with the franchise? The tone of the critics is only a reflection of the actual **** produced by this team.

[better days]

it's possible, but with new schemes on both sides of the ball and the lack of talent we have, it's unlikely.

In other words you think the Bills would have been better with the pop gun offense they ran last year than the new offense of Chans.

[Bill Cody]

That describes the Bills for last 10 years.

So why do some people get more upset with posters than with the franchise? The tone of the critics is only a reflection of the actual **** produced by this team.

Other than Wilson we have a different cast of people in the franchise to either praise or criticize. IMO it's a little early to do either with the current regime. It's also pretty stupid to force them to do penance for the sins of guys that screwed up before they even got here. It's ok to be a skeptic but excessive negativity isn't fun or useful or even sensible. That's why.

[OpIv37]

same ****, different pile, op. i don't think it will ever change with you.

Are you talking about me, or the team?

And it's not me that has to change- it's the team. All I've done is complain about the way the team does things, and given the results on the field, the complaints are vindicated.

[OpIv37]

In other words you think the Bills would have been better with the pop gun offense they ran last year than the new offense of Chans.

I think ANY offense is going to struggle with the lack of talent that we have.

[better days]

Are you talking about me, or the team?

And it's not me that has to change- it's the team. All I've done is complain about the way the team does things, and given the results on the field, the complaints are vindicated.

I didn't realize the Bills took the field since the new front office took control.

[OpIv37]

Doesn't that all depend on how good Troup is? A 2nd round pick is a significant investment in the position, not a band aid. And don't start in about no sure things in the draft. We all know that. But we also know rebuilding is mostly done through the draft. If we draft well we'll rebuild. If we don't we'll continue to suck and Buddy Nix will be looking for work. This isn't complicated.

It's a LONG TERM investment, IF Troup turns out to be a good player and not a bust.

What do we do for the short term? The season starts in 6 weeks and we need a 2 down run-stuffer BAD. Even if Troup is a good player, he most likely won't be ready to do that in a few weeks when the games start. Even if he is, what happens if he gets tired late in games? Or burns out late in the season, as many rookies do? Who comes in then?

The mentality is basically "we're ok with struggling at NT now, if it will help us long term." And I could live with that, if we weren't doing the exact same thing at QB, LT, RT, WR, OLB.....

[OpIv37]

I didn't realize the Bills took the field since the new front office took control.

Russ Brandon is new? Overdorf? Modrak? Ralph?

Hell, even Nix was here in 2009.

[DesertFox24]

Russ Brandon is new? Overdorf? Modrak? Ralph?

Hell, even Nix was here in 2009.
Dude that is grasping at straws and you know it. There is a whole new structure in place and roles have been redefined.

I feel your pain of having sucked for years, but for the first time in a long time I feel good about the structure of this teams FOOTBALL operations.

[Bill Cody]

It's a LONG TERM investment, IF Troup turns out to be a good player and not a bust.

What do we do for the short term? The season starts in 6 weeks and we need a 2 down run-stuffer BAD. Even if Troup is a good player, he most likely won't be ready to do that in a few weeks when the games start. Even if he is, what happens if he gets tired late in games? Or burns out late in the season, as many rookies do? Who comes in then?

The mentality is basically "we're ok with struggling at NT now, if it will help us long term." And I could live with that, if we weren't doing the exact same thing at QB, LT, RT, WR, OLB.....

Troup is not going to become an all pro by not playing, same as any rookie. By your approach no rookie could ever start because he won't be great right away and "we need him to be". Doesn't work like that. If you want to argue we don't have great depth at the position I won't argue. But you have to admit if Troup turns out well the Bills went a long way towards addressing the position for a decade, we just can't know that yet. You make it sound like there's some quick fixes on our array of needs we're just not willing to make, if so I don't see it. Again Nix will live or die on how many "hits" he makes in the draft mostly. If this year is a success we'll need one more big draft and then you can fill in the rest with FA's.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The NT position is key to a 3-4 D. DT's, particularly 3-4 NT's, take a season or two to develop. They're not "plug and play" like kick returners or RB's.

You may be ok with "if Troup isn't a bust, we'll be all set at NT in 2012," but I'm not.
I totally understand what you are saying above, but to insinuate the Bills did nothing to address the NT position is completely false. Agreed he may take time to develop but it wasn't as if there were NTs in abundance anywhere else.

[OpIv37]

Dude that is grasping at straws and you know it. There is a whole new structure in place and roles have been redefined.

I feel your pain of having sucked for years, but for the first time in a long time I feel good about the structure of this teams FOOTBALL operations.

What? I'm a Bills FAN. I want the team to win. Why would I be grasping at straws for reasons to make them bad?

If anything, the bolded part is grasping at straws for fans who want to believe that big changes were made when they weren't.

Look I want the team to win as much as anyone here. But I also pride myself on being able to make objective, realistic predictions. I gain nothing by inventing reasons to complain about the team- that's just going to skew any predictions towards the negative and hurt my accuracy.

[OpIv37]

I totally understand what you are saying above, but to insinuate the Bills did nothing to address the NT position is completely false. Agreed he may take time to develop but it wasn't as if there were NTs in abundance anywhere else.

abundance? No. But there were a few out there who would have been good stopgaps for a year or two until Troup was ready. I found names before but I don't have time to look it up at the moment.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sadly Op even an optimist such as myself isn't expecting much "THIS" season, other than development of young guys like Troup at key positions. I love the direction the team is going but I foresee yet another non playoff year staring me straight in the face.

[THATHURMANATOR]

abundance? No. But there were a few out there who would have been good stopgaps for a year or two until Troup was ready. I found names before but I don't have time to look it up at the moment.
You may be right but they love Kyle Williams and while he certainly isn't ideal size for this position would he have been much worse than any of the un named stop gaps?

Who knows about Harvey also. The guy certainly has the size. Remember Pat Williams came out of no where for the Bills way back when.

[Dr. Lecter]

I think it is way too early to tell if Troup or Cody was the right pick.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think it is way too early to tell if Troup or Cody was the right pick.
It really is. I would be fine with either. I do like the fact that we went with the guy who seems to have a better work ethic and is more athletic.

[DesertFox24]

What? I'm a Bills FAN. I want the team to win. Why would I be grasping at straws for reasons to make them bad?

If anything, the bolded part is grasping at straws for fans who want to believe that big changes were made when they weren't.

Look I want the team to win as much as anyone here. But I also pride myself on being able to make objective, realistic predictions. I gain nothing by inventing reasons to complain about the team- that's just going to skew any predictions towards the negative and hurt my accuracy.
Well I guess Nix as GM, considering he came on in Feb of 2009 and had no input into the draft so really last years scouting was his first year, in other words 2010 is the first class that will be judged under his control.

Doug Whaley is new

Chan Gailey is new

Russ Brandon Overdorf have no say in football decisions such as draft, or fa anymore. Overdorf just works the contracts and is a capologist he has no say in who we bring in and does what he is told. Brandon is back to doing his marketing thing and I like that, he is very good at that, no one can argue that.

Nix also hired a couple of scouts and changed the roles of some of the scouts.

That being the case the front office has been restructured and is different from last 4 years. Granted not vastly different but considering the top 3 people are all brand new it is still a big change.

Do not confuse me for thinking this team is going to be good. I have told everyone that will listen that 7 wins is my max and the floor is 3 in my opinion. I would be elated if we win 7 games with this roster and the change we are going through. If there is a miracle and one of the QBs becomes top 15 QB in the league is the only way we get more than 7.

[justasportsfan]

But there were a few out there who would have been good stopgaps for a year or two until Troup was ready.

I would rather give the snaps to Troup or maybe even Harvey. The goal is not to win now. It's to build for the future.

[OpIv37]

I think it is way too early to tell if Troup or Cody was the right pick.

Absolutely.

I'm not arguing that the Bills should have taken Cody over Troup right now (although I have made that argument in the past). I'm arguing more generally that they didn't sufficiently address the NT position for THIS season, and, in fact, the same can be said of numerous other positions.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would rather give the snaps to Troup or maybe even Harvey. The goal is not to win now. It's to build for the future.
Yeah me too. If the team's chances to make the playoffs aren't that great why not get these guys experience so that in a year or so when we have improved overall they will be ready. Who knows they could end up being good right away.

[Dr. Lecter]

Absolutely.

I'm not arguing that the Bills should have taken Cody over Troup right now (although I have made that argument in the past). I'm arguing more generally that they didn't sufficiently address the NT position for THIS season, and, in fact, the same can be said of numerous other positions.


Meh.


I would rather let the young guys play this season, rather than plug the holes with some "adequate" vet.


Let the youth play and learn where the longerm holes are and fix them.

[tampabay25690]

I said from day 1 that i did not want CODY.
I saw this guy play many times and playing on the best defense in the country helps your stock.

I guarantee TROUP will be a better DT in this league then CODY ever will be....

[Beebe's Kid]

The picture of hard work and dedication. With a body like that, the only thing he will develop in 2-3 years are DD's.
http://outofbounds.nbcsports.com/terrence-cody-weigh-in.jpg

[Philagape]

Russ Brandon is new? Overdorf? Modrak? Ralph?

Hell, even Nix was here in 2009.

You're hurting your credibility by continuing to include Brandon and Overdorf in that last. They are not in the football department.
Modrak is not in charge, Nix is, and Nix has a decent record in personnel.
Whaley and Gailey are new, and they're in much more relevant positions than anyone on your list except for Ralph.
The football department is drastically different. Whether they're better or not remains to be seen, but for the past two years, the top football man in the organization was Dick Jauron. HUGE difference.

[Ickybaluky]

Cody didn't fall into the 2nd round because he is fat. He fell into the 2nd round because he is a part-time player. He is unlikely to play more 40%-50% of the defensive snaps.

There is no secrets about Cody. He isn't a guy who is going to move well laterally and isn't a guy who is going to rush the passer much. Even if he lost weight, that wasn't going to be true. He isn't the kind of athlete a guy like Ngata is.

However, he is a naturally large man. He is a very rare guy in that he is so naturally big and strong. I keep hearing people throw around bench press and squat numbers, and those are nice. They don't necessarily translate to functional football strength. At Alabama, Cody could not be moved. He plugged up the middle and pushed the pocket, and really you couldn't move the guy. He was a perfect run-down NT to build a 3-4 defense around.

True, he will have to work on technique and improve his strength like any pro, but he will be a key cog in the Baltimore defense for years. I don't care about his struggling with conditioning runs, that is because of his size. I don't care about what he can't do. The point is, he does one very rare thing very well, and he is valuable because of it.

I'm not putting down Troupe or any other player. But it is laughable for people to think his struggling with sprints has any effect on Cody as a player. Watch him play, you can't move the guy.

[ddaryl]

I'm not putting down Troupe or any other player. But it is laughable for people to think his struggling with sprints has any effect on Cody as a player. Watch him play, you can't move the guy.


I'll bet the farm that the guy plays average or slightly above average at times during his best years...

undedicated and fat will not survive in the pros... In college you can depend on natural abilities in the pros you need all the edges you can get... That includes being in shape pretty much all year long and ready for training camp... ESPECIALLY AS A ROOKIE !!!!!

we'll see how this turns out, but Pro OL will wear him down quickly IMO

[DraftBoy]

I'll bet the farm that the guy plays average or slightly above average at times during his best years...

undedicated and fat will not survive in the pros... In college you can depend on natural abilities in the pros you need all the edges you can get... That includes being in shape pretty much all year long and ready for training camp... ESPECIALLY AS A ROOKIE !!!!!

we'll see how this turns out, but Pro OL will wear him down quickly IMO

Please stop with the undedicated claim, if the kid was undedicated he would of never fought back through Juco to go to Alabama and stayed off a very strong charge from a young DT named Josh Chapman (2012 Prospect).

You're making extremely broad assumptions and claims based on one failed run. This is the way he plays, and its very similar to a number of very good NFL players. Because of the way Cody plays and the position he plays he gets the **** kicked out of him every season and takes more time than most off after to heal. Do I wish he would work harder? Absolutely, but its ridiculous to think that based on one failed run you can call him undedicated.

[DraftBoy]

I said from day 1 that i did not want CODY.
I saw this guy play many times and playing on the best defense in the country helps your stock.

I guarantee TROUP will be a better DT in this league then CODY ever will be....

Careful there.

Cody is an anchor point who takes up two and in some cases three blockers. His job is to make the tackle that comes to him and play with leverage, which is something he is uniquely specialized at doing. No other player in college football last seaosn played with even close to the same amount of leverage as Cody displayed, not Suh, McCoy, Troup, or anybody else. NE is 100% right on why Cody fell, he was never a legit 1st round prospect and its the same reason Cam Thomas fell despite people here and all over the internet claiming he was a 2nd Round prospect for the month or two prior.

[ddaryl]

Please stop with the undedicated claim, if the kid was undedicated he would of never fought back through Juco to go to Alabama and stayed off a very strong charge from a young DT named Josh Chapman (2012 Prospect).

You're making extremely broad assumptions and claims based on one failed run. This is the way he plays, and its very similar to a number of very good NFL players. Because of the way Cody plays and the position he plays he gets the **** kicked out of him every season and takes more time than most off after to heal. Do I wish he would work harder? Absolutely, but its ridiculous to think that based on one failed run you can call him undedicated.

actually you stop with your claims 1st

I stand by mine.. and it is my opinion.... I think yours is weak as hell. in this league you dedicate yourself or your **** the majority of the time.

The friggin guy couldn't even be bothered to be ready for his rookie training campo.. that is PATHETIC.... Millions of $$$$ and won't be ready for the 1st real day of work... snap out of it.. that is as sad as it gets for all rookies.

So tell me why couldn't this guy run a few laps before camp ?????

[Stewie]

Really doesn't matter at all. It was expected Cody has a weight issue and didnt pass the same type test in the minicamps or at Bama. Says nothing about how he'll be as a player, he's just now gotta go through extra medical stuff to get cleared. Not a huge deal, he'll miss 2-3 days.
If it doesn't matter, why not let him practice?

Because it matters, duh.

It's funny how smart people act or become stupid when discussing football, as if peripheral matters don't contribute to on the field performance as they do for professionals in every industry ever since the history of everything ever. I blame jock culture.

[Stewie]

Cody didn't fall into the 2nd round because he is fat. He fell into the 2nd round because he is a part-time player. He is unlikely to play more 40%-50% of the defensive snaps.

There is no secrets about Cody. He isn't a guy who is going to move well laterally and isn't a guy who is going to rush the passer much. Even if he lost weight, that wasn't going to be true. He isn't the kind of athlete a guy like Ngata is.

However, he is a naturally large man. He is a very rare guy in that he is so naturally big and strong. I keep hearing people throw around bench press and squat numbers, and those are nice. They don't necessarily translate to functional football strength. At Alabama, Cody could not be moved. He plugged up the middle and pushed the pocket, and really you couldn't move the guy. He was a perfect run-down NT to build a 3-4 defense around.

True, he will have to work on technique and improve his strength like any pro, but he will be a key cog in the Baltimore defense for years. I don't care about his struggling with conditioning runs, that is because of his size. I don't care about what he can't do. The point is, he does one very rare thing very well, and he is valuable because of it.

I'm not putting down Troupe or any other player. But it is laughable for people to think his struggling with sprints has any effect on Cody as a player. Watch him play, you can't move the guy.
Tell that to the guys running every NFL team, because they apparently disagree.

[Stewie]

The picture of hard work and dedication. With a body like that, the only thing he will develop in 2-3 years are DD's.
http://outofbounds.nbcsports.com/terrence-cody-weigh-in.jpg

This picture says it all.

Did anyone else notice his right breast has its own mini boob?

[DraftBoy]

If it doesn't matter, why not let him practice?

Because it matters, duh.

It's funny how smart people act or become stupid when discussing football, as if peripheral matters don't contribute to on the field performance as they do for professionals in every industry ever since the history of everything ever. I blame jock culture.

Its a medical decision...do you not bother to read the rules that actually govern this? Talk about smart people acting stupid...tell me you read the rule about this and not that you are just basing this off of some assinine assumption you've decided to make with little to no basis or understanding of the actual rule itself.

[DraftBoy]

actually you stop with your claims 1st

I stand by mine.. and it is my opinion.... I think yours is weak as hell. in this league you dedicate yourself or your **** the majority of the time.

The friggin guy couldn't even be bothered to be ready for his rookie training campo.. that is PATHETIC.... Millions of $$$$ and won't be ready for the 1st real day of work... snap out of it.. that is as sad as it gets for all rookies.

So tell me why couldn't this guy run a few laps before camp ?????

Well since you think mine is weak as hell and all....half the players in football dont dedicate themselves fully to it. Are you being serious? Every year there are countless reports of people throughout the league coming in over weight and out of shape that's only a percentage of the actual ones that do because the majority go unreported.

[Ickybaluky]

Tell that to the guys running every NFL team, because they apparently disagree.

How so?

The kid didn't pass the conditioning run on the first try. You are passing judgements on the kid based on a conditioning run. He will probably pass it in the next day or two and be out on the field.

What can't be denied is that Cody is a rare guy. There just aren't many guys as naturally large and strong as Cody, even in the NFL. That picture of him was from the combine, where he balooned up to 370. A month later he was down to 350, which is his playing weight.

Cody is always going to have weight problems, just like Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers and Ted Washington. At the end of the day, he will play at about 350 lbs. and anchor the middle of the defense. He will be a incredible valuable role player, because you can't move the guy and he will allow the guys playing behind him to flow to the ball without being blocked.

No conditioning run is going change that.

[Oldbillsfan]

Dude does look hard to move for sure.

[BidsJr]

The furthest this dude is going to run is from the sideline to the huddle. This is a non issue for him.

CJ Spiller on the other hand, that would be newsworthy.

[Stewie]

Its a medical decision...do you not bother to read the rules that actually govern this? Talk about smart people acting stupid...tell me you read the rule about this and not that you are just basing this off of some assinine assumption you've decided to make with little to no basis or understanding of the actual rule itself.

Right, because medical decisions are usually based on things that, quote, don't matter.

:rolleyes:

[Mr. Pink]

Meanwhile if we drafted Cody, all of you who say this is such a huge deal wouldn't care.

It's a meaningless wind sprint that a lot of big guys fail the first time every year, as pointed out by other posters, it's a non issue right now.

If he's failing them in September then it's a problem.

Besides as also pointed out this guy isn't going to be doing any sprints while on the field anyways.

[Captain Obvious]

I said from day 1 that i did not want CODY.
I saw this guy play many times and playing on the best defense in the country helps your stock.

I guarantee TROUP will be a better DT in this league then CODY ever will be....

If you think Cody will not be a good football player that is all the convincing I need

[Spiderweb]

Are you talking about me, or the team?

And it's not me that has to change- it's the team. All I've done is complain about the way the team does things, and given the results on the field, the complaints are vindicated.

You appear to simply take the easy road. Only one team of 32 is truly successful each year and the bulk of those teams have their own "negative Nancy" fans who post the same negativity as you.

Part of being a "fan" is having optimism that this year will be better than last. To this point, I like the change to Nix and Gailey. This alone is a start.

[better days]

If you think Cody will not be a good football player that is all the convincing I need

Well, Buddy & Chan thought Troup would be better than Cody as well.

[Philagape]

Part of being a "fan" is having optimism that this year will be better than last.

No, it isn't.

[better days]

How so?

The kid didn't pass the conditioning run on the first try. You are passing judgements on the kid based on a conditioning run. He will probably pass it in the next day or two and be out on the field.

What can't be denied is that Cody is a rare guy. There just aren't many guys as naturally large and strong as Cody, even in the NFL. That picture of him was from the combine, where he balooned up to 370. A month later he was down to 350, which is his playing weight.

Cody is always going to have weight problems, just like Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers and Ted Washington. At the end of the day, he will play at about 350 lbs. and anchor the middle of the defense. He will be a incredible valuable role player, because you can't move the guy and he will allow the guys playing behind him to flow to the ball without being blocked.

No conditioning run is going change that.

He MAY play at 350 lbs or he MAY eat himself out of the league in three years, time will tell.

[BertSquirtgum]

No, it isn't.

as a matter of fact, it is.

[Philagape]

as a matter of fact, it is.

Show me a link to a definition that includes optimism.

[DraftBoy]

Right, because medical decisions are usually based on things that, quote, don't matter.

:rolleyes:

Lovely fallacy you are attempting to pull there.

Medical decision are made to prevent a guy from potentially getting hurt, it has nothing to do with what he is going to be doing in 7 weeks time.

For the record nobody here is defending Cody or his laziness, but to say that one failed conditioning test means he is not determined or is going to matter in what will likely be at least a 5 year career (rough NFL average) seems like a very large stretch especially when the guy has a proven track record of coming in bigger than hoped, working it off and being a dominant on the field force.

[BertSquirtgum]

Show me a link to a definition that includes optimism.
sports fan - an enthusiastic devotee of sports

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sports+fan

lets replace sports with buffalo bills. buffalo bills fan - an enthusiastic devotee of the buffalo bills.

[BertSquirtgum]

Lovely fallacy you are attempting to pull there.

Medical decision are made to prevent a guy from potentially getting hurt, it has nothing to do with what he is going to be doing in 7 weeks time.

For the record nobody here is defending Cody or his laziness, but to say that one failed conditioning test means he is not determined or is going to matter in what will likely be at least a 5 year career (rough NFL average) seems like a very large stretch especially when the guy has a proven track record of coming in bigger than hoped, working it off and being a dominant on the field force.

are you sure it's not because they aren't sure whether or not he'll have a heart attack after doing a couple of 40 yard dashes? therefore do not want him to practice until he is in better shape.

[Philagape]

sports fan - an enthusiastic devotee of sports

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sports+fan

lets replace sports with buffalo bills. buffalo bills fan - an enthusiastic devotee of the buffalo bills.

I don't see anything about automatic optimism in there.

A fan WANTS his team to win. That doesn't means he must believe they will.

[BertSquirtgum]

enthusiastic - having or showing great excitement or interest.

optimistic - expecting the best of the best of all possible worlds.

you cannot be enthusiastic about something without being optimistic. stop splitting hairs. you negative nancys need to take off your skirts.

[DraftBoy]

are you sure it's not because they aren't sure whether or not he'll have a heart attack after doing a couple of 40 yard dashes? therefore do not want him to practice until he is in better shape.

Which is clearly a medical concern, as Ive already stated four or five times now.

[BertSquirtgum]

either way he has bigger tits than pamela anderson. it's ****in gross. that fat bastard needs to start taking care of business or he'll be out of the league before he knows what hit him.

[k-oneputt]

There's a lot of fat guys playing nt in the NFL.
He needs to stuff the run and eat up blockers not run 40's.

[Stewie]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

After the new coaches decided to run the 3-4, the biggest holes on this team were: QB, LT, 3-4 NT, WR, DE. We also had several lesser holes.

Now, I'm well aware that this is too much to address in one off-season. But not a single one of those 5 positions was sufficiently addressed. NOT ONE.

I never expected SB but I expect better than that.
You literally cannot possibly know this, because no games have been played. Why are you so negative?

[OpIv37]

You appear to simply take the easy road. Only one team of 32 is truly successful each year and the bulk of those teams have their own "negative Nancy" fans who post the same negativity as you.

Part of being a "fan" is having optimism that this year will be better than last. To this point, I like the change to Nix and Gailey. This alone is a start.


Here we go, this old bull**** again?

You know, it is possible to separate what one WANTS to happen from what one actually THINKS will happen.

Being a fan means you WANT the team to win. It doesn't mean you actually BELIEVE it's going to happen, and it has nothing to do with optimism.

As a fan, I WANT the Bills to crush every team on the schedule, blow through the playoffs and win the SB with a 19-0 record. As a rational person, I expect the team to struggle for a million reasons that I already mentioned. If there are reasons for optimism, then I will be optimistic. Even if the change to Nix and Gailey is a positive one, it is unlikely to yield results this season for the myriad of reasons I've already mentioned.

[OpIv37]

You literally cannot possibly know this, because no games have been played. Why are you so negative?

As I've said before, there are no guarantees in sports so no one knows what will happen.

But I'm not negative- I'm realistic. NT's typically take a couple of years to develop. Kyle Williams has never played 3-4 NT before, and he's not the prototypical size for it. Lonnie Harvey, while young, has bounced between a couple of teams already and has yet to find success.

Is it possible that one of them could turn out to be the NT we need? Yes. Is it likely? Hell ****ing no. And very similar things can be said for the other positions the Bills didn't address properly this off-season. Therefore, I'm not negative- I'm realistic.

[Ickybaluky]

Cody passed his conditioning test today and is practicing with the team.

Much ado about nothing.

[Stewie]

As I've said before, there are no guarantees in sports so no one knows what will happen.

But I'm not negative- I'm realistic. NT's typically take a couple of years to develop. Kyle Williams has never played 3-4 NT before, and he's not the prototypical size for it. Lonnie Harvey, while young, has bounced between a couple of teams already and has yet to find success.

Is it possible that one of them could turn out to be the NT we need? Yes. Is it likely? Hell ****ing no. And very similar things can be said for the other positions the Bills didn't address properly this off-season. Therefore, I'm not negative- I'm realistic.

Realistic would be saying "we don't know". Because no one does.

Emphatically stating we have not filled any perceived roster holes is not realistic, it is speculative negative assumption.

[Philagape]

enthusiastic - having or showing great excitement or interest.

optimistic - expecting the best of the best of all possible worlds.

you cannot be enthusiastic about something without being optimistic.

Yes you can, and your definitions show why. One has nothing to do with the other.
Your spin does not constitute "fact."

Must Bills fans have been optimistic in, say, 1985?

Should New Jersey Nets fans have been optimistic this past season? Baltimore Orioles?

[OpIv37]

Realistic would be saying "we don't know". Because no one does.

Emphatically stating we have not filled any perceived roster holes is not realistic, it is speculative negative assumption.

Realistic would be that, while admitting we don't know, not all outcomes are equally likely.

Emphatically stating that we didn't fill any roster holes with any proven players is simply the truth. Since we don't know, expecting all of them, or even most of them, to be good enough when they have never proven themselves is simply unrealistic.

[justasportsfan]

Much ado about nothing.

I disagree. It was a good thread while waiting for camp.

[justasportsfan]

Since we don't know, expecting all of them, or even most of them, to be good enough when they have never proven themselves is simply unrealistic.
but expecting them to suck even though you don't know is realistic? You almost always mention ONLY the negative and ignore the possibility of something positive in anything brought up. YOu find something to ***** about even when there is nothing.

[OpIv37]

but expecting them to suck even though you don't know is realistic? You almost always mention ONLY the negative and ignore the possibility of something positive in anything brought up. YOu find something to ***** about even when there is nothing.

Oh really?

Troup is a rookie.

Harvey hasn't done anything worthwhile in two years.

Kyle Williams is a slightly above average DT trying to play NT when he's never done ti before.

And this is for NT, which is the key to the whole 3-4 D.

You consider THAT finding something to ***** about? That's nuts. This is too important to sit there and go "well, MAYBE they'll be good... we just don't know." That may be good enough for you, but it's not good enough for me.

[better days]

Oh really?

Troup is a rookie.

Harvey hasn't done anything worthwhile in two years.

Kyle Williams is a slightly above average DT trying to play NT when he's never done ti before.

And this is for NT, which is the key to the whole 3-4 D.

You consider THAT finding something to ***** about? That's nuts. This is too important to sit there and go "well, MAYBE they'll be good... we just don't know." That may be good enough for you, but it's not good enough for me.

The point is they may turn out to be good to great players.
Time will tell. EVERYONE starts out with no experience, the cream rises to the top. It will take time to see if these guys are cream or sour cream.

[OpIv37]

The point is they may turn out to be good to great players.
Time will tell. EVERYONE starts out with no experience, the cream rises to the top. It will take time to see if these guys are cream or sour cream.

Fair enough.

But wouldn't you rather go into the season with a proven player at the position then a "well, let's wait and see" situation?

And yes, I realize this team has a lot of holes and we can't possibly find proven players for every single position. But of the 5 big holes I mentioned before, we didn't fill even ONE of them with a proven player. Every team has a couple of "wait and see" situations every year, but we have them all over the field right now.

[BertSquirtgum]

the negators will continue to suck each other off so it doesn't matter to me how you guys view life. have fun with your "realism".

[better days]

Fair enough.

But wouldn't you rather go into the season with a proven player at the position then a "well, let's wait and see" situation?

And yes, I realize this team has a lot of holes and we can't possibly find proven players for every single position. But of the 5 big holes I mentioned before, we didn't fill even ONE of them with a proven player. Every team has a couple of "wait and see" situations every year, but we have them all over the field right now.

You are right, but this was a result of 10 years worth of failure. It will take a little time to right the ship.

[OpIv37]

the negators will continue to suck each other off so it doesn't matter to me how you guys view life. have fun with your "realism".

It's not fun.

It's just reality.

And you can mock all you want now, but it will kick you in the nuts on Sunday afternoons come September.

and btw, do you ever get sick of insulting people with whom you disagree, rather than actually trying to debate them and refute their points? Resorting to insults is a tactic for those who are incapable of producing a coherent response.

[justasportsfan]

Oh really?

That's nuts. This is too important to sit there and go "well, MAYBE they'll be good... we just don't know." That may be good enough for you, but it's not good enough for me.

thats what the drafts is all about. Maybe they'll be good or not. Are you implying we should pass the draft and just bring in proven players?

Drafting is part of football. No one knows how they will turn out but you can sit there and expect anyone we draft to suck. Thats what you do.

Drafting Troup who may or may not pan out is doing something but in you *****y world that is not doing something.

Finding things to ***** about or being a neagtive nancy is something you do even if it's simply a player who having a birthday party. What was the body count at Whitners party?

[justasportsfan]

It's just reality.

And you can mock all you want now, but it will kick you in the nuts on Sunday afternoons come September.

.
the future is not a reality ,yet. Your negative outlook is a huge posiibility but it is not a reality.

[OpIv37]

the future is not a reality ,yet. Your negative outlook is a huge posiibility but it is not a reality.

You want to argue semantics? Fine.

My expectations are not the only possible outcome, but they are realistic because they are the most likely outcome.

There.

[OpIv37]

thats what the drafts is all about. Maybe they'll be good or not. Are you implying we should pass the draft and just bring in proven players?

Drafting is part of football. No one knows how they will turn out but you can sit there and expect anyone we draft to suck. Thats what you do.

Drafting Troup who may or may not pan out is doing something but in you *****y world that is not doing something.

Finding things to ***** about or being a neagtive nancy is something you do even if it's simply a player who having a birthday party. What was the body count at Whitners party?

No, I'm implying that at some point we need to stop relying SOLELY on the draft and fill some holes with proven players. We can't try to fill 5-6 major holes with draft picks every year and expect to succeed. NO ONE drafts that well.

[justasportsfan]

You want to argue semantics? Fine.

My expectations are not the only possible outcome, but they are realistic because they are the most likely outcome.

There.
realistic is different from reality.

[justasportsfan]

No, I'm implying that at some point we need to stop relying SOLELY on the draft and fill some holes with proven players. We can't try to fill 5-6 major holes with draft picks every year and expect to succeed. NO ONE drafts that well.

"At some point" I agree that you don't SOLELY rely on the draft to plug holes . But it's the first year of rebuild so you rely on the draft to BUILD you core and thats what the bills are trying to do when they drafted Troup.BUt you obviously don't like the pick so you blast it even though the bills intention is right on.

Do I expect him to fix the problem instantly? NO.

[Stewie]

Cody passed his conditioning test today and is practicing with the team.

Much ado about nothing.

If it was nothing, they would hav elet him practice yesterday.

He showed up overweight and out of shape for his biggest audition to date, at the senior bowl.

He showed up overweight and out of shape for his one chance at a first impression, at his new employer.

How you think that is "nothing" is a mind boggling.

[Stewie]

Realistic would be that, while admitting we don't know, not all outcomes are equally likely.

Emphatically stating that we didn't fill any roster holes with any proven players is simply the truth. Since we don't know, expecting all of them, or even most of them, to be good enough when they have never proven themselves is simply unrealistic.

THe only one who has set expectations is you.

And no one has said that "Because we don't know, all outcomes are equal"

You're misrepresenting the counter argument and then attacking the misrepresentation.

[OpIv37]

THe only one who has set expectations is you.

And no one has said that "Because we don't know, all outcomes are equal"

You're misrepresenting the counter argument and then attacking the misrepresentation.

So, if you haven't set expectations, why are you complaining that my expectations are too negative?

[OpIv37]

"At some point" I agree that you don't SOLELY rely on the draft to plug holes . But it's the first year of rebuild so you rely on the draft to BUILD you core and thats what the bills are trying to do when they drafted Troup.BUt you obviously don't like the pick so you blast it even though the bills intention is right on.

Do I expect him to fix the problem instantly? NO.

Fair enough, but I don't care about intentions. I care about results. And in terms of this year, good intentions and long term solutions don't do us any good. Therefore, it is realistic to expect this team to struggle.

[Ickybaluky]

He showed up overweight and out of shape for his one chance at a first impression, at his new employer.

How you think that is "nothing" is a mind boggling.

He showed up at camp weighing 350 lbs, 20 lbs. lighter than the combine.

His employer doesn't seem real concerned (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/):


"Obviously it shows you that he was in shape," Harbaugh said. "He’s a little heavy right now. He’s got to lose little weight, but that will happen in training camp. But the fact that he’s in shape is important. That shows you that he’s done the work."

The idea of an NT needing an extra day at camp to run some sprints under a certain time being a red flag is just dumb. He is a 350 lbs. NT. At the end of the day, it will be how he performs on the football field. He is going to be a real force against the run.

[Night Train]

Cody has proven nothing at the NFL level.

Ted Washington did not show up in his rookie 49ers training camp horribly overweight and needing a support bra.

What if opponents run a hurry up or no huddle O ? This guy never sees the field, since there's no time to spell him.

Classic boom or bust profile. Whether Troup ever turns out is to be seen but he's in shape and can stay on the field for far longer spells. So I understand the Bills thinking in April but only time will tell.

The issues with Kindle and Cody already have the Ravens looking for additional help.

[DraftBoy]

Cody has proven nothing at the NFL level.

Ted Washington did not show up in his rookie 49ers training camp horribly overweight and needing a support bra.

What if opponents run a hurry up or no huddle O ? This guy never sees the field, since there's no time to spell him.

Classic boom or bust profile. Whether Troup ever turns out is to be seen but he's in shape and can stay on the field for far longer spells. So I understand the Bills thinking in April but only time will tell.

The issues with Kindle and Cody already have the Ravens looking for additional help.

Quick question how do you know Troup is in shape and can pass a conditioning test? Cody participated in OTA'd and minicamps just like Troup has.

[DesertFox24]

Wow this thread has gone out of control.

[DraftBoy]

Wow this thread has gone out of control.

That's the Op and Justa effect.

[Night Train]

Quick question how do you know Troup is in shape and can pass a conditioning test? Cody participated in OTA'd and minicamps just like Troup has.
I don't. I'm just going by some post draft reviews I read that stated he was a solid 310 and had improved his conditioning and endurance dramatically.

The Bills stated this is why they favored him over others, in addition to his overall play.

[Ickybaluky]

Cody has proven nothing at the NFL level.

Ted Washington did not show up in his rookie 49ers training camp horribly overweight and needing a support bra.

What if opponents run a hurry up or no huddle O ? This guy never sees the field, since there's no time to spell him.

Classic boom or bust profile. Whether Troup ever turns out is to be seen but he's in shape and can stay on the field for far longer spells. So I understand the Bills thinking in April but only time will tell.

The issues with Kindle and Cody already have the Ravens looking for additional help.

Cody was a force at Alabama, he couldn't be moved off the ball. He may need some time to adjust to NFL techniques, but the natural size and strength he plays with are rare commodities.

I guess teams could try to go no-huddle, but they will have to sustain drives to make it work or they kill themselves. That isn't easy to do against the Ravens. There are big players on a lot of teams that need rest, and teams manage to find ways to substitute.

I mean, was Tony Siragusa some sort of elite athlete? It isn't like he was in any better shape than Cody. Still, he was a key cog in the middle of arguably the best defense of all time. Cody has an even bigger frame than the Goose, and will play a similar role in that Ravens defense.

I dont' think he is boom or bust at all. I think he is pretty sure thing. He'll never be a guy who plays more than half the snaps, but he will be the foundation of that defense on early downs.

[DraftBoy]

I don't. I'm just going by some post draft reviews I read that stated he was a solid 310 and had improved his conditioning and endurance dramatically.
The Bills stated this is why they favored him over others, in addition to his overall play.

Yea I read that too and asked how they would know since he hadn't played in a game since the season ended.

[Night Train]

Cody was a force at Alabama, he couldn't be moved off the ball. He may need some time to adjust to NFL techniques, but the natural size and strength his plays are rare commodities.

I guess teams could try to go no-huddle, but they will have to sustain drives to make it work or they kill themselves. That isn't easy to do against the Ravens. There are big players on a lot of teams that need rest, and teams manage to find ways to substitute.

I mean, was Tony Siragusa some sort of elite athlete? It isn't like he was in any better shape than Cody. Still, he was a key cog in the middle of arguably the best defense of all time. Cody has an even bigger frame than the Goose, and will play a similar role in that Ravens defense.

Not disagreeing with any of your points, NE. I saw many of the Alabama games on CBS also and know what a force Cody was. Big transition from College to pro and I understand he's nothing more than a situational player with Ngata and others already there.

The Bills didn't want a situational space eater but a guy who eventually could play far more snaps. Totally different situation. ( Good team vs. rebuilding team ).

[Bill Cody]

Cody didn't fall into the 2nd round because he is fat. He fell into the 2nd round because he is a part-time player. He is unlikely to play more 40%-50% of the defensive snaps.



Nonsense. He's a part time player because he's fat and has no stamina. If the guy was in shape and lost 25 pounds he could be Vince Wilfork. And like Wilfork he would have been a 1st rounder. The idea that many teams were not worried about whether Cody's 1st priority was football or cheeseburgers is LOL.

[Ickybaluky]

Nonsense. He's a part time player because he's fat and has no stamina. If the guy was in shape and lost 25 pounds he could be Vince Wilfork. And like Wilfork he would have been a 1st rounder. The idea that many teams were not worried about whether Cody's 1st priority was football or cheeseburgers is LOL.

No, that isn't true. Cody is not as athletic as guys like Wilfork and Ngata. He doesn't move laterally or run like those guys can.

However, neither of those guys have Cody's natural size and strength. Cody has an incredibly wide frame. That frame is what makes him so rare. It is a Shaun Rogers frame. He is a natural NT who anchors. If he lost the weight like you said, he would not be as effective.

[justasportsfan]

Fair enough, but I don't care about intentions. I care about results. And in terms of this year, good intentions and long term solutions don't do us any good. Therefore, it is realistic to expect this team to struggle.
So you're basically telling us "show me the baby" , that you don't care about the birth pains? That's fine, but all you do is ramble about the birth pains.

camp hasn't even started yet , yet you already know we haven't addressed anything when there are not results yet. We all care about the resuluts but there are none and yet you've already made your conclusion.

[mikemac2001]

No, that isn't true. Cody is not as athletic as guys like Wilfork and Ngata. He doesn't move laterally or run like those guys can.

However, neither of those guys have Cody's natural size and strength. Cody has an incredibly wide frame. That frame is what makes him so rare. It is a Shaun Rogers frame. He is a natural NT who anchors. If he lost the weight like you said, he would not be as effective.


And history shows he is lazy

like most players similar to his style.

not saying he isn't a bad player just not what i wanted on the team.

[justasportsfan]

That's the Op and Justa effect.

OP and I kept it civil. Can you say the same thing?

[Stewie]

So, if you haven't set expectations, why are you complaining that my expectations are too negative?

Because they're too negative.

[Bill Cody]

No, that isn't true. Cody is not as athletic as guys like Wilfork and Ngata.

You'd be less athletic too if you were carrying a piano around with you. Noone really knows how athletic he is. Having an extra 25 pounds of pure blubber does NOT make him more effective but it does make him short of breath and less mobile. You've seen the picture, the man is obese. Why is this a debate?

[DraftBoy]

OP and I kept it civil. Can you say the same thing?

Did I say you didn't?

Paul and I have no beef with one another, simply a disagreement in opinion. We also didn't take a whole page to go over the same point that we've both made in countless other threads for years on end either.

[justasportsfan]

Did I say you didn't?

Paul and I have no beef with one another, simply a disagreement in opinion. We also didn't take a whole page to go over the same point that we've both made in countless other threads for years on end either.

You don't need a whole page to drag a thread down. All you need to do is start name calling and it goes down from there.

Besdies, we haven't argued Troup or Cody for years. Not even weeks.