are the bills really that bad??

[hdeep9213]

I am pretty surprised on all the hate the media has on the bills..ESPN's AFC East Blogger Tim Graham stated "Of any preseason prediction I can make, the one I'm most confident in is that the Buffalo Bills (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=buf) will finish fourth in the AFC East."...like wtf...we have not seen this new revamped Bills team play one game and yet we are automatically the worst team in the division and the 2nd worst in the NFL...I find that hard to believe..dont get me wrong..I dont see the Bills winning the SB this year but I dont see us moving backward as a franchise..do we have alot of question on this team..Yes...have we improved the roster over last year..Yes...i cant see a position other than maybe WR (TO departure) where we are not as good or better than last year..with a much better coaching staff, a year of experience for our O-line, and a dynamic running attack I think we can do some damage this season..and for all the Trent haters..is he gonna be the next Manning..of course not..but we dont need him to be..we need him to be able to get the ball out and let our playmakers make plays..i never thought Dick was able to use the talent he had..instead he made the team run his offense regardless of the talent of his player..i think Chan is better at molding his offense to his players strengths..he will prolly run the ball 25-30 times a game..5-10 screens to Jackson/Spiller..5-10 slant..and 2-3 post routes for Lee and Easley..thats how I see our offense working..and I think we can win some games that way..

onto the defense..our secondary is solid..no doubts about it..2 solid starting corners (Mcgee and McKelvin) and 2 solid safties (Bryd and Whitner)..up front i think we have solid DEs in Stroud and Edwards...i think they will hold their own..Stroud getting some 1 vs 1 this year should be interesting..Troup and Williams should be able to work the middle..the only weakness I see is the LB core..inside i think we will do fine..outside i have some question..I for one hate Kelsay..think he is way overrated and will get torched in the pass game..similar sit. with Maybin..too small for the NFL game for OLB..the two OLB scare me but hopefully they can develop..i wont call Maybin a bust but we will see...(knew we shoulda drafted Orakpo)..

Last thing I have to mention that I believe is being lost in the transition to the 3-4..the offense will become more familiar with how to beat the 3-4 defense..ive seen all of the Bills games the last 5 seasons and noticed we were awful moving the ball against a 3-4 defense...i think the offense will be much better this year against all the 3-4 defenses in the AFC East (Jets,Phins) as they practice against our defense day in and day out..


Opinions??Am I delusional??

Prediction-Bills 9-7

[streetkings01]

We hear this every year! Every year we're the team to finish last in the AFC East and just about every year we dont! This Bills team will be alot better this year than they have the previous 4 season for the simple fact Jauron and his play not to lose mentality is gone! That alone should get us a couple more wins.

[hdeep9213]

agreed..Dick def. cost us a game or two with his play calling..one of the worst game time managers ive seen..



We hear this every year! Every year we're the team to finish last in the AFC East and just about every year we dont! This Bills team will be alot better this year than they have the previous 4 season for the simple fact Jauron and his play not to lose mentality is gone! That alone should get us a couple more wins.

[OpIv37]

um, wow...

Just a few quick clarifications:

On O, we're worse at RT. Green is no Butler. And simply not being worse isn't good enough. At a minimum, this O needs upgrades at QB, LT and WR to be successful, and we simply didn't get them this off season.

On D, NT is key to the 3-4. Kyle Williams has never played NT before and is significantly smaller than the prototypical NT. As far as Troup goes, rookie DT's take time to develop. Our LB's are a mess-we don't have any experienced pass-rushers in the 3-4, and Andra Davis is our only experienced 3-4 LB. DB's should be fine.

Practicing against the 3-4 won't hurt the O but a) our 3-4 isn't nearly as talented as the ones in our division that our O will have to face in real games and b) practicing against the 3-4 won't compensate for the overall lack of talent on O.

Finally, every team in our division got better while we took a couple steps backwards (granted, we didn't lose much talent other than Butler, but switching systems on both sides of the ball introduces a learning curve and backs us up anyway).

This is going to be a rough season.

[Beebe's Kid]

um, wow...

Just a few quick clarifications:

On O, we're worse at RT. Green is no Butler. And simply not being worse isn't good enough. At a minimum, this O needs upgrades at QB, LT and WR to be successful, and we simply didn't get them this off season.

On D, NT is key to the 3-4. Kyle Williams has never played NT before and is significantly smaller than the prototypical NT. As far as Troup goes, rookie DT's take time to develop. Our LB's are a mess-we don't have any experienced pass-rushers in the 3-4, and Andra Davis is our only experienced 3-4 LB. DB's should be fine.

Practicing against the 3-4 won't hurt the O but a) our 3-4 isn't nearly as talented as the ones in our division that our O will have to face in real games and b) practicing against the 3-4 won't compensate for the overall lack of talent on O.

Finally, every team in our division got better while we took a couple steps backwards (granted, we didn't lose much talent other than Butler, but switching systems on both sides of the ball introduces a learning curve and backs us up anyway).

This is going to be a rough season.

Do you have this saved on your computer, so you can just cut and paste?

[madness]

We hear this every year! Every year we're the team to finish last in the AFC East and just about every year we dont! This Bills team will be alot better this year than they have the previous 4 season for the simple fact Jauron and his play not to lose mentality is gone! That alone should get us a couple more wins.

Bingo

[OpIv37]

Do you have this saved on your computer, so you can just cut and paste?

Well, I wouldn't have to keep re-writing it if people had the ability to acknowledge the reality of the situation. But they don't.

[hdeep9213]

First off, lets be honest Butler was no pro bowler..and green can easily fill those shoes..our young lineman got a year of experience that they can build off of...in chan's scheme we dont need a payton manning type guy...all trent needs to do is manage the game...i agree with the WRs but I wouldnt be surprised if we see better play from Parrish and see Johnson step up and be a solid #2..

Defensively, Kyle and Troup should be able to hold their own..Kyle is smaller than your typical NT but its all about leverage on the line and he can get low and do work...our LBs need work..i agree with you on that but the inside guys should be able to hold their own..outside guys scare me though...

lastly, the dolphins are not much better..they got 1 guy that will improve them..i still think phins are the worst team in the division..Pats did nothing IMO to improve..but they still have the bills number so I can't disagree with that..Jets..they prolly did the most in the NFL to improve..but I can not see a team with Sanchez as their QB win a SB...all in all I am just saying the Bills are not as bad as everyone is trying to say they are..


um, wow...

Just a few quick clarifications:

On O, we're worse at RT. Green is no Butler. And simply not being worse isn't good enough. At a minimum, this O needs upgrades at QB, LT and WR to be successful, and we simply didn't get them this off season.

On D, NT is key to the 3-4. Kyle Williams has never played NT before and is significantly smaller than the prototypical NT. As far as Troup goes, rookie DT's take time to develop. Our LB's are a mess-we don't have any experienced pass-rushers in the 3-4, and Andra Davis is our only experienced 3-4 LB. DB's should be fine.

Practicing against the 3-4 won't hurt the O but a) our 3-4 isn't nearly as talented as the ones in our division that our O will have to face in real games and b) practicing against the 3-4 won't compensate for the overall lack of talent on O.

Finally, every team in our division got better while we took a couple steps backwards (granted, we didn't lose much talent other than Butler, but switching systems on both sides of the ball introduces a learning curve and backs us up anyway).

This is going to be a rough season.

[mayotm]

Well, I wouldn't have to keep re-writing it if people had the ability to acknowledge the reality of the situation. But they don't.Why is it your role to get everybody to "acknowledge the reality of the situation"?

[hdeep9213]

So u really believe the Bills are the 2nd worst team in the NFL??


Well, I wouldn't have to keep re-writing it if people had the ability to acknowledge the reality of the situation. But they don't.

[OpIv37]

I'm really not convinced about the OL improving. I realize most players take a couple of years to come into their own, and typically the biggest jump is between the first year and second year. However, we get sold this line by the Bills' FO every year, and so far it has failed to materialize.

So, while I will acknowledge that it's possible for the OL to improve and take the next step this year (especially the interior), I'm skeptical until I actually see it happen.

[OpIv37]

So u really believe the Bills are the 2nd worst team in the NFL??

2nd worst? No.

Bottom 5? Probably.

[Prov401]

um, wow...

Just a few quick clarifications:

On O, we're worse at RT. Green is no Butler. And simply not being worse isn't good enough. At a minimum, this O needs upgrades at QB, LT and WR to be successful, and we simply didn't get them this off season.

On D, NT is key to the 3-4. Kyle Williams has never played NT before and is significantly smaller than the prototypical NT. As far as Troup goes, rookie DT's take time to develop. Our LB's are a mess-we don't have any experienced pass-rushers in the 3-4, and Andra Davis is our only experienced 3-4 LB. DB's should be fine.

Practicing against the 3-4 won't hurt the O but a) our 3-4 isn't nearly as talented as the ones in our division that our O will have to face in real games and b) practicing against the 3-4 won't compensate for the overall lack of talent on O.

Finally, every team in our division got better while we took a couple steps backwards (granted, we didn't lose much talent other than Butler, but switching systems on both sides of the ball introduces a learning curve and backs us up anyway).

This is going to be a rough season.

I never thought Butler was that good. I think if Green had the name 'Butler' on his jersey, we wouldn't notice the difference in their play. I'd call that a push.

I'll agree with our QB's, and I'll go on record as saying I hope Brohm has a solid pre-season and comes out on top of this QB race. If Edwards keeps the job, it won't make a difference because we'll be seeing Brohm start by week 3 due to an Edwards hangnail.

I'm also scared at NT. To be honest, I'm not even high up on Stroud being an end. The only player on the D - line that I believe will be dependable is Edwards. I hope Troup is a fast learner.

Our LB's are average. Poz is average, Mitchell is below average, Davis is above average, Maybin is a ?... So all of them combined equals average.

Our secondary is going to be fun to watch. I think Lankster is going to jump Youboty and Corner this year. Just a prediction.

Overall, I'm happy with our new coach, and GM. I'm happy with the direction of this team. And I'm happy that we have 3 very capable starting running backs on our roster, 2 with very very good hands. I think Chan is going to adopt the Jets 2009 style of play. Pound, pound, pound the ball, and don't f*** up Trent! To be totally honest, the defense is what scares me. Our front 7 is very blah. Everyone knows you win games in the trenches, and umm.... yea... our trenches are looking rough. We're relying on skill positions to win this year. And they will only win us a few games with this tough schedule.

7-9

[OpIv37]

I don't share your optimism for 7 wins, but I do think we're finally headed in the right direction- or at least far closer to going in the right direction than we've been since Gregg Williams.

Even though I wasn't thrilled with the Gailey hire, the one area where I'm convinced we will improve is coaching. So far, every indication is that Gailey is a better coach, and considering that anyone who's ever played more than 3 games of Madden can manage a clock better than Jauron, Gailey pretty much HAS to be an improvement in terms of gameday coaching.

[BillsWin]

Been saying 8-8 for a while. I like Troup more than most. I also think a big play by Spiller here and there can win you some games, and he WILL make some big plays.

I think our run blocking inside will be pretty solid, but our pass blocking really scares me. I wish we had a solid LT, but we don't.

I think Chan is going to run, run, run and rely on Edwards or Brohm to not turn the ball over and use the play action.

I think Chan is an upgrade. I think Troup, Carrington and Edwards add size and aggression to the defensive line and our run defense will improve because of it.

I've been saying 8-8, but that could change once I see them play in preseason.

[don137]

I do think between coaching and players overall this is a better team than last year. The Bills were thrown some major curveballs with the firing of Schoenert and cutting Walker right before the season.
I know the OL is not that good but with a year of most of them playing together they will be more cohesive and show a slight upgrade over last year. Edwards/Fitzgerald/Brohm and company will do better than last year. How much better remains to be seen however I do not expect big things from them. RB's will be better than last year and do not have a Lynch suspension looming over them. WR is a little weaker with Owens gone.
On defense I think the DL will be equal due to the change in system and personnel. I think the LBs have a chance to get much better if Maybin and Ellis perform (I know that is asking a lot). The secondary was good last year and I think will be good this year.
Throw it all together I do not get the doom and gloom mentality. I see a franchise that has still too many holes to compete for the playoffs but I see no worse than last year and in fact a little better as a whole. I see them surprising a few teams with how competitive they will be. With a tougher schedule I do see a 6-10 to 8-8 season realistic.

[BertSquirtgum]

bottom 5 op? get a life man

[PromoTheRobot]

It's groupthink at work. When you have the media fellating the Pats*, Jets and Dolphins 24/7, the Bills are naturally overlooked. This is fine. I'm looking forward to the Dolphins coming into RWS looking past us.

PTR

[Mr. Pink]

Talent wise the Bills are a bottom 3 team in the NFL.

There isn't much difference between us and the St Louis Rams for example.

[PromoTheRobot]

Talent wise the Bills are a bottom 3 team in the NFL.

There isn't much difference between us and the St Louis Rams for example.

We have talent at DB and RB. We're not that bad. Few teams are loaded with Pro Bowlers. You overrate the talent on other teams because they don't piss you off on Sunday.

PTR

[soapman]

You guys forget we have a probowl caliber punter? Championship...

[Mr. Pink]

You guys forget we have a probowl caliber punter? Championship...


Then we'll be forced to beat the Raiders to get there!

[Philagape]

I see Butler-to-Green as a push, but the comparison is irrelevant anyway because Butler played just two games last year.

[Billz_fan]

Lots of good statements here, Im gonna bookmark for week 10 or so :lol:

[Electrici]

Love the optimism of the original thread, but the predictions are warranted. Not that predictions mean anything, as very rarely they come to fruition at the end of a season. But how can you defend the team's performance the last 10 years, or the last 4, specifically? I don't think the team is bottom 2, bottom 5 maybe, but, personally, I think they'll end up somewhere in the bottom half... ~20. The bills are never so bad that they get a really high pick, but bad enough to linger around the middle.. and likely on the wrong side of the middle. Maybe they'll surprise us, I sure hope so, but you can't assume they'll be good without any results in the recent or even distant past.

[dannyek71]

One thing I've learned from years as a Bills fan

"are the bills really that bad?? " is invariably "Yes"

[TacklingDummy]

I was listening to ESPN radio today and they have the same opinion as I do. No matter how good/bad the rest of the team is, who's your Quarterback? This is a QB driven league and teams are only going to go as far as their QB takes them.

Who's the Bills Quarterback? Exactly.

[more cowbell]

We have one of the worst Quarterback situations in the league

We have the WORST offensive line in the league

We have a defensive line that includes 2 guys transitioning to 2 new positions

We will be running a completely new defense

The new defense we run is based on getting pressure from the blitzing linebackers, especially the outside linebackers...our current outside linebackers are Chris Kelsay who has never played LB, was average and slow at DE, and is now injured...and Aaron Maybin who had 9 tackles as a rookie last season, and has never played LB in his career.

meanwhile...

The Jets made the AFC championship last season. They have a very good head coach, the best defense in the league, and a promising young QB

The Dolphins have 2 very good RB's, added an elite WR, have a promising young QB, and a very good head coach, and one of the best offensive lines in the league.

The Patriots still have Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and Vince Wilfork. The Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls in the past decade, and consistently win the division. Oh yeah, and WE HAVEN'T BEATEN THE PATRIOTS SINCE 2003. We play them TWICE A YEAR, haven't beaten them in New England in over a decade, and have never won at Gillette Stadium.


Any fool who thinks we actually have a shot to win more than 3 games this season is in for a RUDE awakening.


The truth hurts, but it's easier to have no expectations....especially with the way this franchise has been run the past decade.

[Philagape]

We have one of the worst Quarterback situations in the league

We have the WORST offensive line in the league

We have a defensive line that includes 2 guys transitioning to 2 new positions

We will be running a completely new defense

The new defense we run is based on getting pressure from the blitzing linebackers, especially the outside linebackers...our current outside linebackers are Chris Kelsay who has never played LB, was average and slow at DE, and is now injured...and Aaron Maybin who had 9 tackles as a rookie last season, and has never played LB in his career.

meanwhile...

The Jets made the AFC championship last season. They have a very good head coach, the best defense in the league, and a promising young QB

The Dolphins have 2 very good RB's, added an elite WR, have a promising young QB, and a very good head coach, and one of the best offensive lines in the league.

The Patriots still have Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and Vince Wilfork. The Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls in the past decade, and consistently win the division. Oh yeah, and WE HAVEN'T BEATEN THE PATRIOTS SINCE 2003. We play them TWICE A YEAR, haven't beaten them in New England in over a decade, and have never won at Gillette Stadium.


Any fool who thinks we actually have a shot to win more than 3 games this season is in for a RUDE awakening.


The truth hurts, but it's easier to have no expectations....especially with the way this franchise has been run the past decade.

With the same QBs and same o-line and horrid run defense and non-existent pass rush and far worse coach, they did win six last year, so it's pretty unreasonable to say they don't have "a shot" at more than three.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm a realist and the o-line still looks really bad.

However, the D looks pretty good and I think they are going to be very tough.

The Bills are not finishing 4th in the AFC East. I'll take that bet with anyone right now.

We won't be great but we'll win 8 games.

[The Jokeman]

Then we'll be forced to beat the Raiders to get there!
Hard to billieve it's been 20 years since 51-3. :ignore:

[PromoTheRobot]

The Dolphins have...a promising young QB...

Chad Henne??? :lol: Maybe you missed this! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8bzZEtOcb8)

PTR

[more cowbell]

Chad Henne??? :lol: Maybe you missed this! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8bzZEtOcb8)

PTR



haha that's awesome i've never seen that before

[Ingtar33]

our OTs look worse to me then i feared. this is looking like a 5 or 4 win year to me.

they could surprise me, but it's not looking like i'll get that pleasure. The only way we compete this year is if our front 7 gels into a top 10 unit. I doubt that's happening.

btw: i don't think Fewell did a poor job last year, in a tough situation. so saying our coaching staff is an upgrade isn't a sure thing.

[better days]

our OTs look worse to me then i feared. this is looking like a 5 or 4 win year to me.

they could surprise me, but it's not looking like i'll get that pleasure. The only way we compete this year is if our front 7 gels into a top 10 unit. I doubt that's happening.

btw: i don't think Fewell did a poor job last year, in a tough situation. so saying our coaching staff is an upgrade isn't a sure thing.

Well for one thing Fewell did not coach the entire year. For another, the offense was a JOKE from the 1st game of the season. Fewell did the best he could but I will bet the Bills offense is better than last year & I don't care who is QB.

[OpIv37]

We have talent at DB and RB. We're not that bad. Few teams are loaded with Pro Bowlers. You overrate the talent on other teams because they don't piss you off on Sunday.

PTR

I don't like statements like this because it talks in extremes, as if the only way to be good is to be loaded with Pro Bowlers at ever position.

The reality is that even most good teams aren't loaded with Pro Bowlers. They have average to above average talent in all their starters with a few Pro Bowlers or Pro Bowl caliber players at key positions.

The problem with the Bills is not simply that we lack Pro Bowlers, which we do. It's that we also lack that average or above average talent around the best players to allow them to shine.

[better days]

I don't like statements like this because it talks in extremes, as if the only way to be good is to be loaded with Pro Bowlers at ever position.

The reality is that even most good teams aren't loaded with Pro Bowlers. They have average to above average talent in all their starters with a few Pro Bowlers or Pro Bowl caliber players at key positions.

The problem with the Bills is not simply that we lack Pro Bowlers, which we do. It's that we also lack that average or above average talent around the best players to allow them to shine.

The talent on the Bills may be better than everyone thinks. Many defensive players were too small for the position they played last year. Hopefully they will be at least average to above average at their new position this year.

On offense, no matter how talented players are with a terrible system in place, even good to very good players look worse than they are. TO is a perfect example of this. I will bet he puts up much better numbers this year.

[Mr. Pink]

The talent on the Bills may be better than everyone thinks. Many defensive players were too small for the position they played last year. Hopefully they will be at least average to above average at their new position this year.

On offense, no matter how talented players are with a terrible system in place, even good to very good players look worse than they are. TO is a perfect example of this. I will bet he puts up much better numbers this year.


TO will put better numbers up because he has a better QB throwing him the ball and better players at the other 2 WR slots than he had here. If that's not obvious to you, I don't know what to say.

And you wanna talk about small? Almost everyone in the front 7 right now is too small for the scheme.

I love how people bash the system but the system we ran last year on defense was the system the 70s Steelers rode to a dynasty. What was the difference?

One word. Talent.

[better days]

TO will put better numbers up because he has a better QB throwing him the ball and better players at the other 2 WR slots than he had here. If that's not obvious to you, I don't know what to say.

And you wanna talk about small? Almost everyone in the front 7 right now is too small for the scheme.

I love how people bash the system but the system we ran last year on defense was the system the 70s Steelers rode to a dynasty. What was the difference?

One word. Talent.

I agree about the talent at QB but I would put Evans talent against 85 any day. The system has a large part to do with how players play, which is why Haynsworth made such a stink about having to play a 3-4.

The NT's are on the small side but everyone else in the front 7 are fine size wise. & what the NT's lack in girth they will make up with speed & quickness that fat slobs like Cody don't have.

[DraftBoy]

I was listening to ESPN radio today and they have the same opinion as I do. No matter how good/bad the rest of the team is, who's your Quarterback? This is a QB driven league and teams are only going to go as far as their QB takes them.

Who's the Bills Quarterback? Exactly.

To that I respond that we have seen in recent years that you dont have to have a franchise QB to be successful in the NFL all the time, guys like Shaun King (TB), Eli Manning (NYG), Grossman/Greise (CHI), Trent Dilfer (BAL), Kordell Stewart (PIT), and Jake Plummer (DEN) are just examples of QB's who are not franchise QB's who got their teams to at least their conference championship game. All you have to have at QB is a guy who is not going to turn over the football, not necessairly a franchise QB.

Not sure if that was your point or not but I think people hung up on our QB alone are misplacing their concern.

[Mad Max]

Innocent until proven guilty only holds true for so long. Continually get arrested, tried, and convicted every year over the course of a decade+ and guess what? You are now guilty until proven innocent.

[Mahdi]

I am pretty surprised on all the hate the media has on the bills..ESPN's AFC East Blogger Tim Graham stated "Of any preseason prediction I can make, the one I'm most confident in is that the Buffalo Bills (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=buf) will finish fourth in the AFC East."...like wtf...we have not seen this new revamped Bills team play one game and yet we are automatically the worst team in the division and the 2nd worst in the NFL...I find that hard to believe..dont get me wrong..I dont see the Bills winning the SB this year but I dont see us moving backward as a franchise..do we have alot of question on this team..Yes...have we improved the roster over last year..Yes...i cant see a position other than maybe WR (TO departure) where we are not as good or better than last year..with a much better coaching staff, a year of experience for our O-line, and a dynamic running attack I think we can do some damage this season..and for all the Trent haters..is he gonna be the next Manning..of course not..but we dont need him to be..we need him to be able to get the ball out and let our playmakers make plays..i never thought Dick was able to use the talent he had..instead he made the team run his offense regardless of the talent of his player..i think Chan is better at molding his offense to his players strengths..he will prolly run the ball 25-30 times a game..5-10 screens to Jackson/Spiller..5-10 slant..and 2-3 post routes for Lee and Easley..thats how I see our offense working..and I think we can win some games that way..

onto the defense..our secondary is solid..no doubts about it..2 solid starting corners (Mcgee and McKelvin) and 2 solid safties (Bryd and Whitner)..up front i think we have solid DEs in Stroud and Edwards...i think they will hold their own..Stroud getting some 1 vs 1 this year should be interesting..Troup and Williams should be able to work the middle..the only weakness I see is the LB core..inside i think we will do fine..outside i have some question..I for one hate Kelsay..think he is way overrated and will get torched in the pass game..similar sit. with Maybin..too small for the NFL game for OLB..the two OLB scare me but hopefully they can develop..i wont call Maybin a bust but we will see...(knew we shoulda drafted Orakpo)..

Last thing I have to mention that I believe is being lost in the transition to the 3-4..the offense will become more familiar with how to beat the 3-4 defense..ive seen all of the Bills games the last 5 seasons and noticed we were awful moving the ball against a 3-4 defense...i think the offense will be much better this year against all the 3-4 defenses in the AFC East (Jets,Phins) as they practice against our defense day in and day out..


Opinions??Am I delusional??

Prediction-Bills 9-7
No one will ever believe in this team till we have a real QB and a decent OL.

We literally have the worst offense in the NFL at this point how can we expect anything else from the national media?

[k-oneputt]

Well every year we need not one but two offensive tackles and every year we use late rd. draft picks or pick up guys off the trash heap to fill in. We need a qb but they don't take a chance on one that falls into rd.2.
sSo we are left with much of the same. Backup caliber NFL o-tackles and marginal qb's, thus you will stink every year. Please see the last decade.
Rb's and wr's are nice but you can always find those guys.

[psubills62]

And you wanna talk about small? Almost everyone in the front 7 right now is too small for the scheme.

That's bullcrap. If you wanted to say that they weren't talented enough, or didn't have experience in the 3-4, fine. But to say almost everyone in the front 7 is too small for the scheme is crap.

Guys who could be considered too small for the scheme: Kyle Williams, Aaron Maybin (borderline), Keith Ellison, Ryan Manalac, Donovan Woods.

The last three of those guys won't be playing anywhere near a significant role, and at a minimum, one will be cut, if not two.

We may not be loaded with guys who have ideal size, but to say "almost everyone in the front 7 right now is too small for the scheme" is not true at all. Whether they're guys who actually fit the 3-4 is another question.

[Mahdi]

TO will put better numbers up because he has a better QB throwing him the ball and better players at the other 2 WR slots than he had here. If that's not obvious to you, I don't know what to say.

And you wanna talk about small? Almost everyone in the front 7 right now is too small for the scheme.

I love how people bash the system but the system we ran last year on defense was the system the 70s Steelers rode to a dynasty. What was the difference?

One word. Talent.
name one player that is too small for the scheme...

[OpIv37]

name one player that is too small for the scheme...

Kyle Williams. Carrington if he backs up NT instead of playing DE. Maybin.

[Mr. Pink]

That's bullcrap. If you wanted to say that they weren't talented enough, or didn't have experience in the 3-4, fine. But to say almost everyone in the front 7 is too small for the scheme is crap.

Guys who could be considered too small for the scheme: Kyle Williams, Aaron Maybin (borderline), Keith Ellison, Ryan Manalac, Donovan Woods.

The last three of those guys won't be playing anywhere near a significant role, and at a minimum, one will be cut, if not two.

We may not be loaded with guys who have ideal size, but to say "almost everyone in the front 7 right now is too small for the scheme" is not true at all. Whether they're guys who actually fit the 3-4 is another question.


You shall see when our front gets blown off the LOS consistently this season and you're watching Donte Whitner and Jairus Byrd leading the team in tackles.

[better days]

Kyle Williams. Carrington if he backs up NT instead of playing DE. Maybin.

How is Maybin at 250 LBS to small to play OLB? Do you want him to weigh 300LBS?

[Mr. Pink]

How is Maybin at 250 LBS to small to play OLB? Do you want him to weigh 300LBS?


Maybin has the build of a WR. There's no way in hell he's actually at his listed weight.

[psubills62]

You shall see when our front gets blown off the LOS consistently this season and you're watching Donte Whitner and Jairus Byrd leading the team in tackles.

Hahaha, looks like you just changed the subject.

Guys who are 400 pounds could get blown off the LOS. Getting blown off the LOS doesn't always have to do with how big you are - it also matters how strong a player is, especially in the lower body.

Like I said, you can argue all you want as to how well some of these guys (like Stroud or Spencer Johnson) actually fit in the 3-4. Some of them are penetrators, not 2-gap players. But I don't see many that are too small.

Your statement was that the majority of these players are too small. Feel free to name a majority. If your statement is true, then it's possible to do that before we watch them in a game.

[psubills62]

Kyle Williams. Carrington if he backs up NT instead of playing DE. Maybin.

We've been over the Carrington thing. That statement has no basis in reality. It was one spring practice as a fifth-string guy. Carrington is a DE, period.

So you've basically named 2 guys in the 2-deep on a front 7. That's 14% of our front 7 players. Oooh, I'm so worried.

[OpIv37]

How is Maybin at 250 LBS to small to play OLB? Do you want him to weigh 300LBS?

Because if you believe Maybin is 250 lbs, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.

[Mahdi]

Kyle Williams. Carrington if he backs up NT instead of playing DE. Maybin.
KW is the only one and he is backed up by 2 guys who are not small for the scheme. Troup was selected in the second round for a reason.

So basically your list of guys who are too small consists of KW. One player, who's replacement was drafted.

Carrington is a DE. And if KW, Troup and Harvey all got injured Stroud would be next at NT not Carrington.

[Mahdi]

Maybin has the build of a WR. There's no way in hell he's actually at his listed weight.
Not anymore. I made a thread last year on how skinny Maybin was and that there was no way he was 250 pounds as listed. But now watching him in the TC videos there is a huge difference in his size. He may not be 250 but he is definitely in the 245 range which is on the mark for an OLB in a 3-4.

[Jimbuktu]

I'm usually bothered by Op's relentless pessimism, but you really have to be drinking the Kool Aid if you think we're not one of the five worst teams in the league. It would take a miracle for us to finish .500.

[Mahdi]

I'm usually bothered by Op's relentless pessimism, but you really have to be drinking the Kool Aid if you think we're not one of the five worst teams in the league. It would take a miracle for us to finish .500.
No one is arguing that point.

[Mr. Pink]

Hahaha, looks like you just changed the subject.

Guys who are 400 pounds could get blown off the LOS. Getting blown off the LOS doesn't always have to do with how big you are - it also matters how strong a player is, especially in the lower body.

Like I said, you can argue all you want as to how well some of these guys (like Stroud or Spencer Johnson) actually fit in the 3-4. Some of them are penetrators, not 2-gap players. But I don't see many that are too small.

Your statement was that the majority of these players are too small. Feel free to name a majority. If your statement is true, then it's possible to do that before we watch them in a game.


You get blown off the LOS because you're too small and not strong to hold up at the point of attack, period.

The middle of the line is gonna be a revolving door for big gains up the middle all year long.

[psubills62]

You get blown off the LOS because you're too small and not strong to hold up at the point of attack, period.

The middle of the line is gonna be a revolving door for big gains up the middle all year long.

Name the guys who are too small.

[ChristopherWalken]

Tim Graham is right on about this team projected to finish 4th in the division.

Why? They've been over .500 once in the division the last 10 years.

They went 0-6 against the division in '08 and 2-4 in '09.

The Jets, the Pats and the Dolphins have all made it to the playoffs at least once in the last two years.

Buffalo has finished 4th in the divison twice the last two years and 3 times since '02.

New offense + new defensive scheme + new coach = rebuild
Patriots remain the team to beat while the Jets and Dolphins are teams merely tweaking to improve on the success they've had the last two years.

The chips are stacked against them.

[OpIv37]

KW is the only one and he is backed up by 2 guys who are not small for the scheme. Troup was selected in the second round for a reason.

So basically your list of guys who are too small consists of KW. One player, who's replacement was drafted.

Carrington is a DE. And if KW, Troup and Harvey all got injured Stroud would be next at NT not Carrington.

Harvey may not even make the team, which bumps Carrington to 3rd on the depth chart. And Stroud slimmed down, so he's too small for 3-4 NT now too.

[Mahdi]

Harvey may not even make the team, which bumps Carrington to 3rd on the depth chart. And Stroud slimmed down, so he's too small for 3-4 NT now too.
So basically your argument is that our 3rd and 4th string NTs are too small? and that means that the majority of our front 7 is too small?

I too have my doubts about KW as the NT but Stroud being next to him will be big and a guy like Dewan Edwards also who is a known run stuffer will also help.

If you compare the Bills starting front 7 weight wise to any other front 7 of other 3-4 teams I bet we come out heavier than many.

[OpIv37]

So basically your argument is that our 3rd and 4th string NTs are too small? and that means that the majority of our front 7 is too small?

I too have my doubts about KW as the NT but Stroud being next to him will be big and a guy like Dewan Edwards also who is a known run stuffer will also help.

If you compare the Bills starting front 7 weight wise to any other front 7 of other 3-4 teams I bet we come out heavier than many.

There is a rotation at NT, the 3rd string NT will almost definitely see some time on the field, and one injury bumps the 4th sting NT into that situations. My contention is that we are undersized at NT which is the key to the 3-4 D.

As far as the rest of the front 7, I don't really have time to look up comparisons with other teams. But the 3-4 typically requires larger players than the C2, and last year we were undersized even by C2 standards, so I don't see how adding Edwards and Davis suddenly gives us sufficient size.

[Mahdi]

There is a rotation at NT, the 3rd string NT will almost definitely see some time on the field, and one injury bumps the 4th sting NT into that situations. My contention is that we are undersized at NT which is the key to the 3-4 D.

As far as the rest of the front 7, I don't really have time to look up comparisons with other teams. But the 3-4 typically requires larger players than the C2, and last year we were undersized even by C2 standards, so I don't see how adding Edwards and Davis suddenly gives us sufficient size.
No, 3-4 teams rarely go to their 3rd and 4th NTs. Most teams only have 2 listed on their depth charts and rotate them depending on down and distance.

[better days]

Not anymore. I made a thread last year on how skinny Maybin was and that there was no way he was 250 pounds as listed. But now watching him in the TC videos there is a huge difference in his size. He may not be 250 but he is definitely in the 245 range which is on the mark for an OLB in a 3-4.

I thought he was listed at 235 last year. He has been working out since last season ended & is ripped. Muscle weighs more than fat so I think he could well be around 250 LBS.

[OpIv37]

No, 3-4 teams rarely go to their 3rd and 4th NTs. Most teams only have 2 listed on their depth charts and rotate them depending on down and distance.

That's the ideal. But the reality is that you have 315+ lb men running up and down the field for 3 hours, 16 times over the course of 17 weeks. Guys are going to get tired and guys are going to get hurt. I guarantee that at least 3 different guys will line up at that position for us over the course of the season, and I can almost guarantee that we'll see 4.

[better days]

That's the ideal. But the reality is that you have 315+ lb men running up and down the field for 3 hours, 16 times over the course of 17 weeks. Guys are going to get tired and guys are going to get hurt. I guarantee that at least 3 different guys will line up at that position for us over the course of the season, and I can almost guarantee that we'll see 4.

Well, you have to admit the Bills NT's are in better shape to run up & down the field than many other teams.

[OpIv37]

Well, you have to admit the Bills NT's are in better shape to run up & down the field than many other teams.

Williams probably is.

Stroud is getting old so I'm not so sure about him. I really liked the guy when we first got him and he was solid in '08 but he really took a step back last year.

Troup- I haven't seen him play yet so I really can't comment.

[Mahdi]

There is a rotation at NT, the 3rd string NT will almost definitely see some time on the field, and one injury bumps the 4th sting NT into that situations. My contention is that we are undersized at NT which is the key to the 3-4 D.

As far as the rest of the front 7, I don't really have time to look up comparisons with other teams. But the 3-4 typically requires larger players than the C2, and last year we were undersized even by C2 standards, so I don't see how adding Edwards and Davis suddenly gives us sufficient size.
Pittsburgh:

NTs: Hampton (325), Hoke (305), Paxson (292) --- DEs: Keisel (285), A.Smith (298), Eason (305), Hood (300)

ILBs: Farrior (243), Timmons (234), Foote (239), Fox (235)

OLBs: Harrison (242), Woodley (265)


Buffalo:

NTs: KW (306), Troup (314), Harvey (342)

DEs: Stroud (300), Edwards (290), Carrington (285), Johnson (286)

ILBs: Poz (238), A. Davis (250), Mitchell (253), Moats (250)

OLBs: Maybin (245-250), Torbor (250), Kelsay (261), Ellis (261)

Pretty sure the Bills average weight on their front 7 compared to the Steelers is comparable if not heavier than they are.

[wozrob11]

i was listening to espn radio this afternoon and john clayton said we are already on the clock for the drafts first pick !!!! he is probably right but come on john its the first week of august cut us some slack!!!! jake locker #10 i got it preordered

[better days]

i was listening to espn radio this afternoon and john clayton said we are already on the clock for the drafts first pick !!!! he is probably right but come on john its the first week of august cut us some slack!!!! jake locker #10 i got it preordered

Yeah, he has been saying that since the last draft. The Seahawks, the team where Clayton lives is the one team I fear that finishes with a worse record than the Bills...........stealing the QB we want & need in the next draft.