We couldn't we wait?

[X-Era]

Schobel is released, not traded, and probably not retiring.

The Bills lost one of their best players today and we got nothing in return.

This is a team that needs talented players now more than ever and it freely gave up one of its players for nothing.

Here's the deal, he's only playing for one more year supposedly, he's out of position on this team, he's at the end of his career. I get all that. Yes, the Bills needed to move forward. But, could they have simply waited? By waiting we could have waited until he put in his retirement papers, or until a team loses a layer due to injury and his value goes up.

Whats the rush? the guys that are here are working and gaining experience. If Schobel decided to show up, fine, pay him and let him play if he's earns a spot. If he doesn't, fine, he stays on the DNR list. I didnt think Schobel was a fit for what we want to do anyways, I dont think this is a big loss. I would hope they would spend that money to try to make us better, but thats another discussion.

This is not a bash, its simply a question of why we couldn't wait.

[Commissioner]

It sounded to me like Schobel was on his way back... which means Bills would of had to at least pay him a $2 million roster bonus even if they cut him.

I think the Bills didn't feel like he offered them much more in the new scheme that guys already practicing do.

[justasportsfan]

this explains it very well

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2010/08/04/why-trading-schobel-was-unrealistic/

[X-Era]

It sounded to me like Schobel was on his way back... which means Bills would of had to at least pay him a $2 million roster bonus even if they cut him.

I think the Bills didn't feel like he offered them much more in the new scheme that guys already practicing do.

All reports Ive seen put his decision out a few weeks still. That's a few more weeks where injuries could happen... etc.

Besides, do they have some immediate plan for the 2mill? If Spiller's contract doesn't come for several more weeks, it wasn't about that, and I doubt they trade for or sign some significant payer.

[X-Era]

this explains it very well

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2010/08/04/why-trading-schobel-was-unrealistic/

Even if he had zero trade value, which I don't totally believe, still, why now? Its not like Maybin and/or Kelsay couldnt get injured either.

[justasportsfan]

Even if he had zero trade value, which I don't totally believe, still, why now? Its not like Maybin and/or Kelsay couldnt get injured either.


I can only guess that they only decided now because they were hoping that Aaron would show up and be committed when camp started.

He does have trade value but not 8 million worth. 2 million if he should up and his 2010 salary. Bills would have to eat that if he showed up. Granted that his salary is negotiable with the new team how are the bills going to recoup the 2 million?

[X-Era]

I can only guess that they only decided now because they were hoping that Aaron would show up and be committed when camp started. So we sent a message that we expect all of our players to show up on time? And if they don't we release them? So if a player decides, while under contract, that he doesn't want to play for us and uses this approach, we release them?

[X-Era]

The Bills couldn't have said, stay away from camp and we will work a trade. And then behind scenes accommodated his wishes... no 2 mill lost, and we still get something for him.

[Night Train]

Save $$$$$$$ for a guy who didn't wish to be here.

He may only play 1 more year.

Converting to OLB at this point in his career ? ( age 33) Maybin & Ellis I can see. Standup DE's in college and far faster,younger.

I couldn't see Schobel or Kelsay as being the long term answers at OLB.

[X-Era]

Save $$$$$$$ for a guy who didn't wish to be here.

He may only play 1 more year.

Converting to OLB at this point in his career ? ( age 33) Maybin & Ellis I can see. Standup DE's in college and far faster,younger.

I couldn't see Schobel or Kelsay as being the long term answers at OLB.
Neither could I.

However, the same action could have been taken at anytime without impacting anything, not money, not players currently at camp. And during that wait, his price may rise or he may simply retire.

Cut him now we get nothing, cut him later we still get nothing... we wouldnt have lost anything by not doing it now.

[justasportsfan]

So we sent a message that we expect all of our players to show up on time? And if they don't we release them? So if a player decides, while under contract, that he doesn't want to play for us and uses this approach, we release them?

Actually the message they are sending our players is that there is no player bigger than the entire team. The bills gave him his freedom despite Aaron being indecisive . Time to concentrate on those who are here working their ass off. I'm sure they would appreciate that.

[X-Era]

Actually the message they are sending our players is that there is no player bigger than the entire team. The bills gave him his freedom despite Aaron being indecisive . Time to concentrate on those who are here working their ass off. I'm sure they would appreciate that.

I cant see how Aaron being at home, and us not paying anything for him while the current players are out there working affects anything at all; it shouldn't affect the team at all. Players shouldn't be thinking about players that arent even at camp... how about worrying about doing your job and trying to help us win.

[justasportsfan]

Players shouldn't be thinking about players that arent even at camp... how about worrying about doing your job and trying to help us win.

I brought that up because you talked about sending messages to players.

[trapezeus]

we didn't release an aaron schobel in his prime for nothing. we released a guy who has shown zero interest in being here. i think we'll be the same team with or without him. Save the money, build the core, find where the deficiencies are.

There is zero point in expecting the playoffs from this unit. all we can expect is that guys like wood, levitre, spiller, maybin, poz and the secondary prove that their solid...maybe be surprised by a steve johnson, easley, chad jackson, a handful of the RBs, maybe see Trent prove he has what it takes, and see a LT emerge to be good enough to be a solid back up.

That's the best case scenario in my mind aside from a full out miracle.

[X-Era]

I brought that up because you talked about sending messages to players.

I just think it was doen for one of two reasons:

1) To send a message like you said- thats fine, but playing tough guy on a poor team may turn away future players.

2) To be nice to Aaron- thats good also. But, it sets a bad precedence that player can get get whatever they want and don't have to honor their contract.

Yet if we simply told Aaron to make up his mind and we will go from there, we are still in control, and may get something out of it.

What if Ralph meddled and told Nix to cut him because he was pissy that Aaron was playing games?

[ServoBillieves]

Transferring to a new position without learning a brand new scheme while everyone else is working their asses off to learn it and you're sitting on your ass = those guys deserve to be in the system and you don't. Go play for Houston, get to the playoffs, and fall short again.

[X-Era]

we didn't release an aaron schobel in his prime for nothing. we released a guy who has shown zero interest in being here. i think we'll be the same team with or without him. Save the money, build the core, find where the deficiencies are.


Agree with all that, but it has nothing to do with doing it now. It wasn't a question of if we should move on without him, but when and what do we get in return. his move seemed hasty and left us with nothing.

[justasportsfan]

as far as why only now? How can you trade someone who up until now doesn't even know if he is going to retire?

"houston , we'd like to trade Aaron over to you?"
"does he still want to play?"
"I don't know that, are you trading for him or not?we need an answer now "

[X-Era]

Transferring to a new position without learning a brand new scheme while everyone else is working their asses off to learn it and you're sitting on your ass = those guys deserve to be in the system and you don't. Go play for Houston, get to the playoffs, and fall short again.

No problem witrh him being gone, just the conditions in which he left and left us with nothing.

BTW, I will be fine with him being a Texan, we don't play them this year.

[X-Era]

as far as why only now? How can you trade someone who up until now doesn't even know if he is going to retire?

"houston , we'd like to trade Aaron over to you?"
"does he still want to play?"
"I don't know that, are you trading for him or not?we need an answer now "

No, its more like this:

"Houston, Aaron still wants to play, he has made his decision, and he would like to play for you"
"Ok, lets try him out and see if were interested. What are you looking for in compensation?"
"Not sure yet, but we can work something out"

[Prov401]

He didn't want to be here. Nix isn't playing around. He wants to screw? Let him.

Everyone thought the Pats were nuts letting Milloy walk. But they saved money, and had a resurgent Harrison ready to take over.

Schobel would of been decent as on OLB with half of his heart into playing football, at best. We would of got next to nothing for him.

[justasportsfan]

No, its more like this:

"Houston, Aaron still wants to play, he has made his decision, and he would like to play for you"
"Ok, lets try him out and see if were interested. What are you looking for in compensation?"
"Not sure yet, but we can work something out"

really? who are your sources?

Even after getting released he said he'll take 2 weeks to decide. If he decides to retire, you just made up a lie to houston.

[X-Era]

He didn't want to be here. Nix isn't playing around. He wants to screw? Let him.

Everyone thought the Pats were nuts letting Milloy walk. But they saved money, and had a resurgent Harrison ready to take over.

Schobel would of been decent as on OLB with half of his heart into playing football, at best. We would of got next to nothing for him.

Next to nothing is still better than nothing.

[X-Era]

really? Even after getting released he said he'll take 2 weeks to decide. and if he decides to retire, you just made up a lie to houston.
My version was waiting until Aaron decided that he wants to play, telling him it cant be for us, and then calling Houston... not telling a lie.

[justasportsfan]

My version was waiting until Aaron decided that he wants to play, telling him it cant be for us, and then calling Houston... not telling a lie.


He still hasn't decided until now, so that answers why the bills decided only now. They are done waiting.

[X-Era]

He still hasn't decided until now, so that answers why the bills decided only now. They are done waiting.

Seems like a hasty decision with no real reason to act swiftly.

[Ickybaluky]

It looks like Schobel wanted out, but didn't want to be the bad guy. He wanted to be released, and strung things out until he got his way. I keep hearing about how he isn't sure if he wants to retire, but then it is also reported his agent says he still wants to play.

Once the Bills decided to move on, they weren't going to pay him the $2M. It wouldn't be a surprise if Schobel's agent told the team he would show up and collect the $2M if they didn't cut him. That way he gets to be a FA and can pick where he plays.

This is a case of a guy wanting out, but not wanting to be the bad guy. He strung it out hoping they would release him and finally got his way. He should have handled it differently. He should have been honest with them back in March.

[X-Era]

It looks like Schobel wanted out, but didn't want to be the bad guy. He wanted to be released, and strung things out until he got his way. I keep hearing about how he isn't sure if he wants to retire, but then it is also reported his agent says he still wants to play.

Once the Bills decided to move on, they weren't going to pay him the $2M. It wouldn't be a surprise if Schobel's agent told the team he would show up and collect the $2M if they didn't cut him. That way he gets to be a FA and can pick where he plays.

This is a case of a guy wanting out, but not wanting to be the bad guy. He strung it out hoping they would release him and finally got his way. He should have handled it differently. He should have been honest with them back in March.

NE gets respect for their sound, prudent, and timely decisions. What would Beli do?

[justasportsfan]

Seems like a hasty decision with no real reason to act swiftly.Aaron didn't give them a whole lot of choices ,did he? Time to move on. Wish Aaron luck unless he decides to sign with a rival.

[justasportsfan]

NE gets respect for their sound, prudent, and timely decisions. What would Beli do?

Milloy?

[Ickybaluky]

NE gets respect for their sound, prudent, and timely decisions. What would Beli do?

I don't know. Seriously, it is an odd situation.

He has made concessions to veteran players before, like with Roman Phifer (who stayed on the West Coast in the offseason, and was excused from Mondays after games so he wouldn't have to return until Wednesday and could fly home). If he really wanted the player, he may have been patient like the Bills were. Who knows? It is a hypothetical.

[X-Era]

Milloy?

They cut Milloy at the end of training camp, not the beginning.

[justasportsfan]

It looks like Schobel wanted out, but didn't want to be the bad guy. He wanted to be released, and strung things out until he got his way. I keep hearing about how he isn't sure if he wants to retire, but then it is also reported his agent says he still wants to play.

Once the Bills decided to move on, they weren't going to pay him the $2M. It wouldn't be a surprise if Schobel's agent told the team he would show up and collect the $2M if they didn't cut him. That way he gets to be a FA and can pick where he plays.

This is a case of a guy wanting out, but not wanting to be the bad guy. He strung it out hoping they would release him and finally got his way. He should have handled it differently. He should have been honest with them back in March.


If he ends up playing for an AFCE rival, I wish him nothing but bad luck. A hope he never plays a snap.

[X-Era]

I don't know. Seriously, it is an odd situation.

He has made concessions to veteran players before, like with Roman Phifer (who stayed on the West Coast in the offseason, and was excused from Mondays after games so he wouldn't have to return until Wednesday and could fly home). If he really wanted the player, he may have been patient like the Bills were. Who knows? It is a hypothetical. Ok, do you think they Bills made the right move and at the right time?

[Ickybaluky]

They cut Milloy at the end of training camp, not the beginning.

Basically, if he wanted the player he would be patient and wait it out. If he didn't, he would just cut him.

[justasportsfan]

They cut Milloy at the end of training camp, not the beginning.
it doesn't matter. They cut him. Whats wrong with cutting someone who either wants to retire or play for another team but never gave the organization any options?

[X-Era]

Basically, if he wanted the player he would be patient and wait it out. If he didn't, he would just cut him.

I agree, but when is still important. Has Belicheck ever cut a player at the start of training camp?

[X-Era]

it doesn't matter. They cut him. Whats wrong with cutting someone who either wants to retire or play for another team but never gave the organization any options?

I think it does, maybe NE let the teams know he was available and waited throughout training camp to see if someone would bite before cutting him.

[justasportsfan]

I agree, but when is still important. Has Belicheck ever cut a player at the start of training camp?
did BB have a player that pulled a Farve on him?

[X-Era]

did BB have a player that pulled a Farve on him?

Thats a great question. They just may get there with Brady.

[Ickybaluky]

Ok, do you think they Bills made the right move and at the right time?

I don't know. Like I said, it is a difficult situation. I think the Bills reached a point that they felt the guy didn't want to be part of the program. Once that happens, you move on. If he reports, they owe him $2M just for passing a physical. If they flunk him on the physical, they have to put him on a reserve list and his $6M salary becomes guaranteed. So they cut him.

Could they have traded him? It would require help from Schobel because any team dealing for him would want to talk to him about adjusting his contract. I'd be surprised if Schobel's agent told them he wasn't interesting in cooperating and would prefer they just cut him so he can make his own deal. In fact, I would be surprised if his agent hasn't already worked out rough numbers with the Texans, but he wants to wait a week or two to avoid the worst part of camp.

So, it is hard to criticize, especially since what really happened is just conjecture on our part.

[justasportsfan]

I think it does, maybe NE let the teams know he was available and waited throughout training camp to see if someone would bite before cutting him.
Maybe , maybe not. Thats your assumption. The thing is if that were true at least the Pats would have something like "Milloy still wants to play" The bills have nothing from Schobel. Shobel til now hasn't given the bills anything to work with. NOTHING!

[Ickybaluky]

I agree, but when is still important. Has Belicheck ever cut a player at the start of training camp?

Again, this was a unique situation. The player in question was going to receive $2M for showing up and passing a physical. That gives him leverage.

[X-Era]

Thanks guys for the good discussion.

I just feel like the timing bugs me. I just feel like the Bills need to start having some things work in their favor.

[justasportsfan]

Could they have traded him?It would require help from Schobel because any team dealing for him would want to talk to him about adjusting his contract.

exactly

[Ickybaluky]

Maybe , maybe not. Thats your assumption. The thing is if that were true at least the Pats would have something like "Milloy still wants to play" The bills have nothing from Schobel. Shobel til now hasn't given the bills anything to work with. NOTHING!

The Milloy thing was completely different. The Pats were tight up against the cap and needed to clear room. They wanted to keep Milloy. In fact, they talked to him about an extension that offseason because he was in the final year of a big money deal and had a high salary. He wanted another big deal with a big signing bonus, and they weren't going to invest that in him again because of age. They kept talking and offered him an ultimatum at the end of the preseason: take a paycut or they were going to cut him. He said no to the paycut and they cut him.

[justasportsfan]

The Milloy thing was completely different. The Pats were tight up against the cap and needed to clear room. They wanted to keep Milloy. In fact, they talked to him about an extension that offseason because he was in the final year of a big money deal and had a high salary. He wanted another big deal with a big signing bonus, and they weren't going to invest that in him again because of age. They kept talking and offered him an ultimatum at the end of the preseason: take a paycut or they were going to cut him. He said no to the paycut and they cut him.


In a way it's the same if you look at it from a different perspective. Milloy didn't give the pats anything to work with which forced thjem to cut him and neither did Shobel.

Both were also a money thing. Pats weren't gonna invest in Milloy and neither are the bills. At least the pats new Milloy wanted to play while the bills aren't sure about Aaron. So if the Pats cut someone who wanted to play , don't think the bills were wrong for cutting someone who might not want to play.

[Ickybaluky]

"Right now," Nalley said, "Aaron is considering his options."
Nalley said several teams called as soon as Schobel became a free agent. The agent declined to specify what teams.

LINK (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7138551.html)

[Prov401]

Next to nothing is still better than nothing.

So your angry because there was a possibility for the Bills to get next to nothing?

He didn't want to be here. We weren't going to get anything for him, especially with his contract. He said himself he's 70/30 on playing this year. I'm all for not having a guy with 70% of his heart taking away reps from young promising athletes that want to play for the Buffalo Bills.

[Novacane]

This is a case of a guy wanting out, but not wanting to be the bad guy.


If that's the case he only got half of what he wanted.

[BertSquirtgum]

Schobel is released, not traded, and probably not retiring.

The Bills lost one of their best players today and we got nothing in return.

This is a team that needs talented players now more than ever and it freely gave up one of its players for nothing.



on the bold. one of its best players? bahahahaha. i don't think so. have a nice life and thanks for taking so much money and not playing near what a defensive end with that paycheck should have been.

[Prov401]

on the bold. one of its best players? bahahahaha. i don't think so. have a nice life and thanks for taking so much money and not playing near what a defensive end with that paycheck should have been.

Totally agree.

He had one standout season IMO, and has been a decent player for us during his career. The guy has about 4-6 garbage sacks a season, late in games when the other team puts in their backup as their up 41-10. He robbed Buffalo blind. IDK why people are fussing over losing a guy, who himself said he is 70/30 on playing this year. I'd rather have a player who is 100% ready to put all his heart and soul into being a Buffalo Bill.

See ya Aaron.

[X-Era]

on the bold. one of its best players? bahahahaha. i don't think so. have a nice life and thanks for taking so much money and not playing near what a defensive end with that paycheck should have been.

I have never been a huge Schobel fan. But, yes, he was one of our best players... on a weak group. Who's better on defense? Stroud, Byrd, and?

So you think we are a better team without him?

You think we made the right move at the right time?

And for the record, I never said I was against the outcome, only that the timing doesn't seem right and that I think we should have tried harder or waited to try to get something back for him.

[HHURRICANE]

Schobel screwed us and several people in the media have said as much. If he had come to us sooner and said "I want out" we could have traded him something before the draft.

In his typical loser fashion he than proclaims to any suitors that he's tired and washed up so we have no choice but to release him. The Bills aren't going to eat his contract to prove a point.

He'll be on a roster and play this year.

[X-Era]

Again, the move makes sense, but the timing doesn't.

Were 3 pages into this and I still haven't heard a strong argument for why now instead of the end of training camp for example.

Would he get 2mill if he shows up? yes. But that applies to the end of training camp as well as it does now.

Would we get money back right now? yes. But if we dont plan to spend it right away, that has no impact on why we couldn't wait.

Would it tell young guys that they don't need to look over their shoulder? yes. But, should we be letting any of our players "relax"? You can certainly push them harder over the course of training camp knowing they may lose their job to Schobel.

Would it send a message that no player is bigger than the team? Maybe. But you could say, no, if you realize Schobel, at home has no impact on what your doing at training camp.

And if you simply do nothing, his trade value, which is apparently zero now, could potentially go up if players go down due to injury. The Chargers may have lost a LB'er for the season yesterday... thats one example. Even if we continue to do nothing, and he had sat at home for another month, the trade market never opened up, and we cut him... we would have lost nothing over what we did yesterday.

[Mr. Pink]

The better question...

Why didn't we just move him on draft day for a mid round pick?

Same deal with Lynch.

[Mr. Pink]

In other words...we simply waited too long as it was.

[justasportsfan]

The better question...

Why didn't we just move him on draft day for a mid round pick?

how can you move someone who didn't communicate with you what he wants to do with his life?

[Goobylal]

Schobel's been talking retirement for the past couple years. The fact that he waited so long, and STILL isn't sure if he's going to play, tell me he meant to retire, but that he got the itch late and/or he's pulling a Favre and wants to skip as much of off-season and training camp as he can. The thing is, his new team will only have a couple weeks to prep him, so he's doing a disservice to them as well.

The Bills wouldn't have gotten anything for him in trade. He would have cost them $8M and teams knew this and figured if they were trying to trade him, they didn't want to pay him his money and/or he wanted out, so they had no leverage. And realistically, it's been the Texans all along where he wanted to play, so they weren't going to trade for him knowing that if he were cut, he'd end up with them anyway. But again, why take more time to decide when he could sign and be in camp, learning as much as he can?