View Full Version : The preseason doesn't matter
the super bowl bills never won in pre-season. So don't worry if the first team offense doesn't get a first down. Relax. The Bills will still make the playoffs.
I DO NOT WANT TO READ ANYTHING ***** LIKE THIS IN THE UPCOMING WEEKS.
OpIv37
08-09-2010, 10:43 AM
Thanks- you saved me the trouble of starting almost the exact same thread.
BertSquirtgum
08-09-2010, 10:47 AM
the super bowl bills never won in pre-season. So don't worry if the first team offense doesn't get a first down. Relax. The Bills will still make the playoffs.
I DO NOT WANT TO READ ANYTHING ***** LIKE THIS IN THE UPCOMING WEEKS.
epic fail
justasportsfan
08-09-2010, 10:51 AM
if the bills don't move the ball much in preseason, it's because Chan doesn't want to give anything away to the Gay Sharks.
djjimkelly
08-09-2010, 10:52 AM
what do you mean?
don't our seasons hopes hinge on soon to be mailmen and and guys who will be flipping flap jacks at IHOP?
OpIv37
08-09-2010, 10:58 AM
what do you mean?
don't our seasons hopes hinge on soon to be mailmen and and guys who will be flipping flap jacks at IHOP?
No, the season hinges on the starters, and if the starters look like **** in the pre-season, they're going to look like **** in the regular season.
Results in pre-season don't matter. In the 4th quarter, it's our future 3rd stringers and future cut list vs theirs. It's largely irrelevant.
But, every single year, some of us come on here and point out how bad the starters looked and how that will affect the team in the regular season. Every single year, other people respond with "it's pre-season, it doesn't matter." Yet, without fail, every single year, the real game starts and the team has- get this- the SAME problems that they had in pre-season.
The team won't get magically better because the NFL changes the word in front of "season" from "pre" to "Regular."
justasportsfan
08-09-2010, 10:59 AM
preseason games is mostly about one big audition as to who makes the team.
DraftBoy
08-09-2010, 11:07 AM
No, the season hinges on the starters, and if the starters look like **** in the pre-season, they're going to look like **** in the regular season.
Results in pre-season don't matter. In the 4th quarter, it's our future 3rd stringers and future cut list vs theirs. It's largely irrelevant.
But, every single year, some of us come on here and point out how bad the starters looked and how that will affect the team in the regular season. Every single year, other people respond with "it's pre-season, it doesn't matter." Yet, without fail, every single year, the real game starts and the team has- get this- the SAME problems that they had in pre-season.
The team won't get magically better because the NFL changes the word in front of "season" from "pre" to "Regular."
Correct since you have that thing called proof to back up your declarative statement.
djjimkelly
08-09-2010, 11:09 AM
No, the season hinges on the starters, and if the starters look like **** in the pre-season, they're going to look like **** in the regular season.
Results in pre-season don't matter. In the 4th quarter, it's our future 3rd stringers and future cut list vs theirs. It's largely irrelevant.
But, every single year, some of us come on here and point out how bad the starters looked and how that will affect the team in the regular season. Every single year, other people respond with "it's pre-season, it doesn't matter." Yet, without fail, every single year, the real game starts and the team has- get this- the SAME problems that they had in pre-season.
The team won't get magically better because the NFL changes the word in front of "season" from "pre" to "Regular."
op u of all people should have caught that sarcasm :)
OpIv37
08-09-2010, 11:11 AM
Correct since you have that thing called proof to back up your declarative statement.
Yup.... every single season since this board was in existence, and probably every season before that as well, but there is no documentation on that.
The problems that the starters had in the pre-season translated to the regular season.
OpIv37
08-09-2010, 11:12 AM
op u of all people should have caught that sarcasm :)
sorry- sometimes it's hard to pick up sarcasm over written communication.
DraftBoy
08-09-2010, 11:12 AM
Yup.... every single season since this board was in existence, and probably every season before that as well, but there is no documentation on that.
The problems that the starters had in the pre-season translated to the regular season.
The problem the players had is that they just sucked and lacked talent not that the pre-season means or tells you anything about the regular season.
OpIv37
08-09-2010, 11:27 AM
The problem the players had is that they just sucked and lacked talent not that the pre-season means or tells you anything about the regular season.
so, are you saying that players who suck suddenly get good in the regular season? Or vice-versa: players who are good in the pre-season will suddenly suck during the regular season?
I really don't think it's much of a stretch to say that how a player performs on the field during pre-season is going to be a pretty good indicator of how they will perform during the regular season, at least during situations where it's one team's starters vs the other team's starters.
DraftBoy
08-09-2010, 11:31 AM
so, are you saying that players who suck suddenly get good in the regular season? Or vice-versa: players who are good in the pre-season will suddenly suck during the regular season?
I really don't think it's much of a stretch to say that how a player performs on the field during pre-season is going to be a pretty good indicator of how they will perform during the regular season, at least during situations where it's one team's starters vs the other team's starters.
Im not saying either, Im saying I dont need to make declarative false statements to know that a player sucks.
Every year a team goes undefeated or a QB like Bret Ratliff (quick tell me the team he plays for! and yes I already know) sets the NFL on fire in the preseason. Then they do **** in the regular season. Its been proven over and over again preseason performance both individual and team are not directly indicative of regular season performance.
OpIv37
08-09-2010, 11:59 AM
Im not saying either, Im saying I dont need to make declarative false statements to know that a player sucks.
Every year a team goes undefeated or a QB like Bret Ratliff (quick tell me the team he plays for! and yes I already know) sets the NFL on fire in the preseason. Then they do **** in the regular season. Its been proven over and over again preseason performance both individual and team are not directly indicative of regular season performance.
This sounds like another case of using the exception to prove the rule. You gave me one example of a player doing well in the preseason and failing in the regular season. I'll give you six examples of a team failing in the pre-season and failing in the regular season: The Bills in each of the last 6 years. (Note: I'm talking in terms of how the starters performed against opposing starters, not overall stats or overall W-L for the team).
There is nothing that can directly predict how a team will perform. But if a player or unit sucks in the pre-season, it's highly likely that they will suck in the regular season, and the same thing goes for players who perform well in the pre-season.
epic fail
don't be so hard on yourself.
trapezeus
08-09-2010, 12:09 PM
1990 superbowl teams - played together for years, knew each other well. starters didn't play, vanilla offense as a tryout.
2000's bills teams - carosel at positions, rotating offensive themes, no unity playing together.
As a result, it never mattered during the preseason for the 1990 bills. they were simply just getting the back up reps. there was a switch the starters could turn on because they had worked together.
the 2000 bills don't have the luxury of running a vanilla playbook poorly. they need to get the timing and execution down...they need the confidence.
if the starters come out and get out hustled by a bizarre washington team, and they don't get better over the 4 weeks, it will be a long season.
if they come out flat, and get better and show more chemistry as the preseason rolls on, we could be a dangerous team.
Captain Obvious
08-09-2010, 12:11 PM
OPIV will be perched on top of the fence.. He can step off to the left or the right.. If the starters suck he'll criticize them no end and rightfully so.. But if some how the starters on a whole surprise us and look relatively good he can say no big deal its just preseason
ddaryl
08-09-2010, 12:15 PM
the super bowl bills never won in pre-season. So don't worry if the first team offense doesn't get a first down. Relax. The Bills will still make the playoffs.
I DO NOT WANT TO READ ANYTHING ***** LIKE THIS IN THE UPCOMING WEEKS.
are you kidding me.. If the 1st teams doesn't get a 1st down I will definitely be in here pointing that out...
Preseason is for evaluation, and if you can't get a 1st down then that will be evaluated...
I plan on making plenty of assessments based upon what I see in preseason.
are you kidding me.. If the 1st teams doesn't get a 1st down I will definitely be in here pointing that out...
Preseason is for evaluation, and if you can't get a 1st down then that will be evaluated...
I plan on making plenty of assessments based upon what I see in preseason.
I read it year in and year out. Maybe not from you or any other sensible fans. But plenty of homers have that post drafted up already that's for sure.
OPIV will be perched on top of the fence.. He can step off to the left or the right.. If the starters suck he'll criticize them no end and rightfully so.. But if some how the starters on a whole surprise us and look relatively good he can say no big deal its just preseason
Poor OP has been on that fence for a decade then.
OpIv37
08-09-2010, 12:18 PM
OPIV will be perched on top of the fence.. He can step off to the left or the right.. If the starters suck he'll criticize them no end and rightfully so.. But if some how the starters on a whole surprise us and look relatively good he can say no big deal its just preseason
I would never say that- if the starters look good in pre-season, then I will be cautiously optimistic.
Don't put words in my mouth.
superbills
08-09-2010, 12:37 PM
I think we're missing the point here. We need to qualify a couple of things. First, preseason GAME RESULTS don't matter. The Super-Bowl Bills could lose every pre-season game for a reason. They didn't have to play their starters and the joe-blow backups got the bulk of the work. I don't recall Kelly and company struggling to make plays the one or two times they were on the field in pre-season. They got their sea-legs under them then turned it up in the regular season.
Contrast that to the current Bills team. Having not seen the team in action since last season, I have zero confidence that our first-stringers can go out for a couple of series, make some plays, then turn it on full-go for the regular season. We don't have that kind of talent yet, for one, and you cannot discount the fact that the system is brand new, again, for everyone. In our case, pre-season NON-SCORE RESULTS mean a ton for this team. This is the time to start making things click. If they don't, you can bet your sweet Aunt Sally that the regular season will bear much of the same.
Don't get caught up in the semantics, but remember that the pre-season is different for every team. If the Bills coaches are wise, they will see this particular pre-season as critical to making sure that they can make the most of whatever talent we do have to look respectable once the GAME RESULTS start mattering.
Captain gameboy
08-09-2010, 12:45 PM
I have no problem with the essential point that looking good in preseason will translate to the regular season, but facts are pesky things.
2008. Bills looked like trash in preseason, and started 5-1.
2009 Same. Bills start a Monday nighter away and look great against the crowned ones. But for Leodis, we win.
You get the point.
PromoTheRobot
08-09-2010, 12:53 PM
It only matters if we suck. If we're good then it's just the pre-season.
PTR
What matters this year is progress by the first stringers toward developing continuity and in executing new schemes. I think the trend to look for is improvement in mental aspects of the game as the preseason wears on. Also, identifying credible back-ups is an issue.
Philagape
08-09-2010, 01:22 PM
It only matters if we suck. If we're good then it's just the pre-season.
PTR
That is actually true. Playing poorly in the preseason is more telling than playing well.
With vanilla schemes, less or no game-planning, various levels of effort and mismatches against lower-tier players, preseason features a more raw style of play that's about fundamentals and timing more than anything.
Therefore, if an offense looks "good," then it's got the basics down and is in synch, but it says nothing about how they will play in actual game conditions.
If the offense looks bad, then there are more fundamental problems to be concerned about.
The significance ratio of talent to coaching is different in preseason. A team may have raw talent that can look good in preseason, but in the regular season they may be exposed as merely that, for the reasons mentioned above.
better days
08-09-2010, 01:30 PM
That is actually true. Playing poorly in the preseason is more telling than playing well.
With vanilla schemes, less or no game-planning, various levels of effort and mismatches against lower-tier players, preseason features a more raw style of play that's about fundamentals and timing more than anything.
Therefore, if an offense looks "good," then it's got the basics down and is in synch, but it says nothing about how they will play in actual game conditions.
If the offense looks bad, then there are more fundamental problems to be concerned about.
The significance ratio of talent to coaching is different in preseason. A team may have raw talent that can look good in preseason, but in the regular season they may be exposed as merely that, for the reasons mentioned above.
As can a HC be exposed in the regular season (Dick). In preseason nobody expects the Coaches to have a game plan, Jauron did not have a plan for the regular season either.
DraftBoy
08-09-2010, 02:18 PM
This sounds like another case of using the exception to prove the rule. You gave me one example of a player doing well in the preseason and failing in the regular season. I'll give you six examples of a team failing in the pre-season and failing in the regular season: The Bills in each of the last 6 years. (Note: I'm talking in terms of how the starters performed against opposing starters, not overall stats or overall W-L for the team).
There is nothing that can directly predict how a team will perform. But if a player or unit sucks in the pre-season, it's highly likely that they will suck in the regular season, and the same thing goes for players who perform well in the pre-season.
Are you really buying your own bs on this one?
Ok I gave you one to start, here's another 5 to match yours;
QB Todd Bauman
LB Victor Hobson
Seattle
Chicago
Detroit
and then 4 more just because I can and they are this easy to show;
Detroit 08 and 09
Jacksonville
Seattle
I only needed 2 years worth to show my point, do you really want to continue this?
evol4276
08-09-2010, 02:21 PM
lmao every single year
OpIv37
08-09-2010, 02:26 PM
Are you really buying your own bs on this one?
Ok I gave you one to start, here's another 5 to match yours;
QB Todd Bauman
LB Victor Hobson
Seattle
Chicago
Detroit
and then 4 more just because I can and they are this easy to show;
Detroit 08 and 09
Jacksonville
Seattle
I only needed 2 years worth to show my point, do you really want to continue this?
Detroit won preseason games in 08 and 09, but did their starters actually look good? I didn't watch the games so I don't know.
What I do know is that when I watched Buffalo's starters, they had the SAME problems in the regular season that they did in the pre-season. Six years running. Without exception. Yes, in 2008 they started 5-1 and in 2009 they almost beat the Pats in the first game, but the pre-season problems all surfaced eventually.
I think you are getting hung up on results. I'm only talking about situations where it's starters vs starters, and those situations are damn good indicators.
Demon
08-10-2010, 02:06 AM
the super bowl bills never won in pre-season. So don't worry if the first team offense doesn't get a first down. Relax. The Bills will still make the playoffs.
I DO NOT WANT TO READ ANYTHING ***** LIKE THIS IN THE UPCOMING WEEKS.
Dude, who gives a **** about W's or L's in pre-season? If thats what people do, then, wow..... maybe football isn't for them. However, pre-season is semi important. The Bills first team offense NEEDS to move the ball. Scoring would be awesome, but, baby steps. Last year, they couldn't even MOVE the ball. That was a problem. Our defense, couldn't even get near Aaron Rodgers in the game where he just threw with ease against us.
The end result doesn't matter. Who cares if their third stringers are better then ours? Who cares of Brian Brohm has a horrid 3rd quarter? But, if the first team offense can't move the ball and doesn't score, and the defense looks lifeless, then yes, it will be a glaring sign of what is to come.
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