Few Bills camp observations

[patmoran2006]

Just a few non-earth shattering tidbits

Noticed lately that Marshawn Lynch has been getting more carries and reps than Fred Jackson.. I cant believe Im saying this, but it may turn out to be Jackson who ends up as the #3 back. Definitely have to see how that plays out.

Cordaro Howard and Andre Ramsey have been getting almost ALL of the backup OG reps, not Kirk Chambers.. he's been in at RT lately in place of injured Cornell Green. If Wang gets healthy and doesnt go to PS, this tells me that Chambers' roster spot is in big trouble.

The Bills havent discussed marcus easley's injury-- I dont like that.

Ellis Lankster is having an EXCELLENT camp-- that could end up pushing Ashton Youboty out, especially if the BIlls keep only 5 corners.

Alex Carrington and Terrel Troup look great. They will have roles as rookies.

Lastly, Sorry but a 12th overall pick shouldnt be a "situational" player. It sure as hell looks that's what Maybin will be.. Torbor gets almost all the first team reps, while it looks like Maybin will be a pass-rush specialist.

[wmoz11]

He's only just now 22 years old. What is the role of your typical football player that age? You can't just look at draft position. We know what he was when we drafted him; a project. Just because he's a situational pass-rusher in his second year doesn't mean that's what he's destined to be.

Have some patience - we should all be used to that.

[CAbills]

With Orakapo playing so well, and us switching to a 3-4 sucks being stuck with Maybin

[Commissioner]

Hopefully as a pass rush specialist.... he will actually get pressure or sack the QB.

[raphael120]

Pat,

I'm hearing that Antonio Coleman is looking pretty good out there too through guys like Matt Warren. What's Colemans story? I'm reading about how he was supposed to be one of the top OLB prospects in the 2010 draft but went undrafted?

[OpIv37]

He's only just now 22 years old. What is the role of your typical football player that age? You can't just look at draft position. We know what he was when we drafted him; a project. Just because he's a situational pass-rusher in his second year doesn't mean that's what he's destined to be.

Have some patience - we should all be used to that.

so, let me ask you this... why the hell would a 7-9 team with numerous glaring holes draft a "project," especially with someone like Orakpo, who plays the same position, still on the board?

If Maybin doesn't become a starter and contribute this season, then it was a terrible draft pick. Even if he develops in another year or two- the best case scenario is that we lost 2-3 years of Orakpo's productivity while waiting for Maybin to develop. ****ing stupid.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Interesting about Marshawn, I've felt though that he's exactly what Gailey want's in a back to be that pound the rock guy. He may view Freddy as a similar player to CJ without the speed.

[wmoz11]

so, let me ask you this... why the hell would a 7-9 team with numerous glaring holes draft a "project," especially with someone like Orakpo, who plays the same position, still on the board?

If Maybin doesn't become a starter and contribute this season, then it was a terrible draft pick. Even if he develops in another year or two- the best case scenario is that we lost 2-3 years of Orakpo's productivity while waiting for Maybin to develop. ****ing stupid.

Well, the first part has absolutely nothing to do with what I said and certainly doesn't reflect on the current staff.

Your second part doesn't make much sense, either. You're saying that, regardless of pro readiness, a player has to be a starter and contribute within 2 years (hell, it's only been one full year right now) or he's a bust?

There's many players out there that have proven otherwise.

[Beebe's Kid]

With Orakapo playing so well, and us switching to a 3-4 sucks being stuck with Maybin**** **** ****!!

Quit the ****ing Orakpo ****! He isn't a ****ing Bill! We need to move on!!

GOOD NEWS!! Maybin is 22, and Orakpo is 24. So when Orakpo is washing up, Maybin will still be in his prime. That should be around the time that Nix's vision begins to really take shape and the Bills rattle off 5 straight SB wins!!

[mikemac2001]

Interesting about Marshawn, I've felt though that he's exactly what Gailey want's in a back to be that pound the rock guy. He may view Freddy as a similar player to CJ without the speed.


when i went to camp day 1 i was so impressed with marshawn he looked faster and leaner but still a beast and was the best back out there. i would love for all the backs to get there yards and carries i like all of them but rooting for marshawn

[Beebe's Kid]

so, let me ask you this... why the hell would a 7-9 team with numerous glaring holes draft a "project," especially with someone like Orakpo, who plays the same position, still on the board?

If Maybin doesn't become a starter and contribute this season, then it was a terrible draft pick. Even if he develops in another year or two- the best case scenario is that we lost 2-3 years of Orakpo's productivity while waiting for Maybin to develop. ****ing stupid.

Orakpo doesn't give us any victories that we missed last year, can you break your normal tendencies and agree?

So...it two years when Maybin is 24 we'll have two more years that we wouldn't have with Orakpo, left with Maybin.

Maybin didn't pick the Bills. Dickie J and His Band of Gypsies picked Maybin. He has skills, he just needs to develop. Smart pick? **** no...

We can cry about it, which seems to be the preferred method, or try to make the best out of it that we can...I'll take the later.

[Mr. Pink]

Maybin = completely wasted pick and bust.

[justasportsfan]

Orakpo doesn't give us any victories that we missed last year, can you break your normal tendencies and agree?

So...it two years when Maybin is 24 we'll have two more years that we wouldn't have with Orakpo, left with Maybin.

Maybin didn't pick the Bills. Dickie J and His Band of Gypsies picked Maybin. He has skills, he just needs to develop. Smart pick? **** no...

We can cry about it, which seems to be the preferred method, or try to make the best out of it that we can...I'll take the later.

it's easier to cry.

[Hogwasher]

Lynch looks leaner this year. I thought he was heavier than he should have been. His physical talent has never been an issue. I hope Gailey finds a way to make the offense easy for Lynch, because he struggles to find holes at times.

[Philagape]

I'm not that surprised about Lynch/Jackson.

Lynch is the more physically talented player, but he played himself out of the starting job with his poor vision and attitude, not to mention his off-the-field troubles. Jackson basically started by default.
Jackson did what I would expect of any NFL regular; he found the holes that were given to him. But he never would have started if Lynch could do that.
If Lynch has indeed taken that step and has improved his backfield smarts and decisiveness, then it's only a matter of time before he unseats Jackson.
Jackson is a fine backup, and that's his ideal role.

[Michael82]

Danny and I were discussing this last week at camp. Fred Jackson looks slow and doesn't run as well as Marshawn Lynch and CJ Spiller do. Hell...even Bell looks faster. This is why we were discussing the Bills shopping Jackson and not Lynch. I also agree with the amount of carries and all that....It seems to be...

Lynch
Spiller
Jackson
Simpson/Bell (both their carries have dropped a bit)

[jamze132]

Maybin wasn't a Nix/Gailey pick so if he tanks this year, he's gone.

[HHURRICANE]

Well, the first part has absolutely nothing to do with what I said and certainly doesn't reflect on the current staff.

Your second part doesn't make much sense, either. You're saying that, regardless of pro readiness, a player has to be a starter and contribute within 2 years (hell, it's only been one full year right now) or he's a bust?

There's many players out there that have proven otherwise.

You need to quit while you are behind. OP is 100% correct. Even if Maybin finds his game it will be at the end of his contract and all we got out of it was a wasted roster spot. A situational pass rusher when we could had a sure thing in Orakpo is just crazy.

Probably one of the dumber picks of the entire 2009 draft.

[Philagape]

Maybin wasn't a Nix/Gailey pick so if he tanks this year, he's gone.

Nix was on the staff last year, but word is that Maybin was strictly a Dick pick.

[wmoz11]

You need to quit while you are behind. OP is 100% correct. Even if Maybin finds his game it will be at the end of his contract and all we got out of it was a wasted roster spot. A situational pass rusher when we could had a sure thing in Orakpo is just crazy.

Probably one of the dumber picks of the entire 2009 draft.

A sure thing in Orakpo? He's had one good year. He may very well go out and have a career-ending injury. The fact that some of you always look at who we passed on is pathetic. You could do that with every pick of every draft.

Just because he's a situational pass-rusher now doesn't mean that's what he's going to be in the prime of his career. What if he ends up being better than Orakpo? Will it still bother you that he didn't develop fast enough?

[casdhf]

Lynch/Spiller fits that Thunder/Lightning thing that has been going around the league. Freddie seems more like he'll be the 3rd down guy. I think he's earned the chance to start though. He deserves it.

[Ground Chuck]

Lynch is getting more reps because they are shopping him.

[TigerJ]

I think one reason Jackson was overlooked coming out of college, aside from the fact he played his college ball at Coe College, is the fact that he lacks explosion at the line of scrimage. The Bills learned that he has superior vision that allows him to compensate for his lack of explosion. Just about every other running back on the roster is going to have better athleticism/upside, but Jackson will continue to be Mr. Reliable wherever he plays.

[ZAZusmc03]

I agree with Orakpo being the smarter pick for the Bills last draft, but either pick is ******ed at that time. Both were way better fits for a 3-4, and we ran a 4-3. Stupid either way. Not to mention Dick didnt really play rookies unless he was forced to.

[Goobylal]

Maybin fit the Tampa-2 type of DE for Dick's defense. And the type of defense is why the Bills took Whitner instead of Ngata back in 2006. But they (Dick and his defense) are both gone now, so the Bills have to make a place for Maybin.

I disagree that if Maybin is a pass-rushing specialist, that he's a bust. If he can apply pressure on the QB (and during a season, the top DE/OLB's at-best get a combined 3 sacks/pressures/hits per game out of an average of about 34 plays), he'll be doing his job.

[YardRat]

Even if Lynch manges to beat out FJ for the starting spot, it'll take about two series of him running up offensive linemen's backs instead of hitting the holes before Freddie is back in on a more regular basis.

I have no problem with Maybin being a 'specialist' this season for two reasons...A-One year to learn the new position, and B-If he's successful at it and creates a pass rush while he's on the field, it's a helluva lot better than contributing nothing at all. Regardless of who we could've had, that's water under the bridge. He's ours, and if he can manage to contribute in any manner I'd rather have a guy that plays below his drafted position than a complete bust.

Which, admittedly, he still has just as much chance of going belly up as not, but I prefer to hope for the best.

[patmoran2006]

Pat,

I'm hearing that Antonio Coleman is looking pretty good out there too through guys like Matt Warren. What's Colemans story? I'm reading about how he was supposed to be one of the top OLB prospects in the 2010 draft but went undrafted?

He has looked good.. I think he's got a shot at a roster spot.. Torbor and Maybin are locks, Kelsay there is still something I dont like about him, but Im sure he'll make the roster and likely start. That would leave Ellis as his (Coleman's) primary competition.

He'll make the PS worst case for sure.

[OpIv37]

Well, the first part has absolutely nothing to do with what I said and certainly doesn't reflect on the current staff.

Your second part doesn't make much sense, either. You're saying that, regardless of pro readiness, a player has to be a starter and contribute within 2 years (hell, it's only been one full year right now) or he's a bust?

There's many players out there that have proven otherwise.

No, I'm saying that in the situation like the Bills were presented- guy that's ready now vs project at the same position, the Bills are ALWAYS better off taking the guy that's ready now.

Why?

Because first, we have too many holes to wait 2 years for guys to contribute. By the time two years rolls around, we'll have a hole at another position, we'll draft him then we'll have to wait two years for him to develop, by that time we have new holes.... we're constantly chasing our tails.

Second, per the CBA, the Bills (and every other team for that matter) only have a player's rights for a certain number of years after they are drafted (I believe it's 5, but I might be mistaken). If we lose two years of productivity while the player develops, we are only guaranteed to have that player for 3 more years. And we know how Ralph is about re-signing guys who are due big paydays: Winfield, Clements, Pat Williams, Jason Peters... hell, even guys like Fletcher and Jabari Greer who were only due medium paydays got away.

[OpIv37]

Orakpo doesn't give us any victories that we missed last year, can you break your normal tendencies and agree?

So...it two years when Maybin is 24 we'll have two more years that we wouldn't have with Orakpo, left with Maybin.

Maybin didn't pick the Bills. Dickie J and His Band of Gypsies picked Maybin. He has skills, he just needs to develop. Smart pick? **** no...

We can cry about it, which seems to be the preferred method, or try to make the best out of it that we can...I'll take the later.

Well I'm not going to go back and debate last year- what about THIS year? Maybin's still a question mark and Orakpo is raring to go.

You can say it's "crying" about it or dismiss it as the past, but the reality is that the mistakes of the past affect the present and the future.

[better days]

Well I'm not going to go back and debate last year- what about THIS year? Maybin's still a question mark and Orakpo is raring to go.

You can say it's "crying" about it or dismiss it as the past, but the reality is that the mistakes of the past affect the present and the future.

I drove a milk truck as a kid & learned at a young age you can't cry over spilled milk. (I spilled quite a bit learning to drive).

[acehole]

so, let me ask you this... why the hell would a 7-9 team with numerous glaring holes draft a "project," especially with someone like Orakpo, who plays the same position, still on the board?


If Maybin doesn't become a starter and contribute this season, then it was a terrible draft pick. Even if he develops in another year or two- the best case scenario is that we lost 2-3 years of Orakpo's productivity while waiting for Maybin to develop. ****ing stupid.


We did not switch to 3-4 that year he was drafted.

MAbin need offseason of steroid he cant do that now he wants to play.

[OpIv37]

We did not switch to 3-4 that year he was drafted.

MAbin need offseason of steroid he cant do that now he wants to play.

what the hell does the 3-4 have to do with any of this?

[OpIv37]

I drove a milk truck as a kid & learned at a young age you can't cry over spilled milk. (I spilled quite a bit learning to drive).

yeah, well, if you spilled the milk, it means that there is milk and broken glass all over the floor. You don't have to cry over it, but you do have to clean it up and accept the fact that it's going to take time to clean it up properly. Also, you have to accept the fact that, because you spilled some of the milk, there is less available to drink now.

[Tatonka]

I think one reason Jackson was overlooked coming out of college, aside from the fact he played his college ball at Coe College, is the fact that he lacks explosion at the line of scrimage. The Bills learned that he has superior vision that allows him to compensate for his lack of explosion. Just about every other running back on the roster is going to have better athleticism/upside, but Jackson will continue to be Mr. Reliable wherever he plays.

i was going to post the same thing.. you are spot on.. jackson never looked fast.. never will.. he is fast enough to be a very good running back though.. he just has great vision and a feel for getting yardage..

we are very fortunate to have such a talented backfield.

[Dr. Lecter]

Danny and I were discussing this last week at camp. Fred Jackson looks slow and doesn't run as well as Marshawn Lynch and CJ Spiller do. Hell...even Bell looks faster. This is why we were discussing the Bills shopping Jackson and not Lynch. I also agree with the amount of carries and all that....It seems to be...

Lynch
Spiller
Jackson
Simpson/Bell (both their carries have dropped a bit)


I have pushing the Jackson trade idea since February or so.You move him now, while his value is at its peak.

[trapezeus]

i think jackson runs more like thurman. he gets small and wedges into holes and then somehow comes out of them. with a questionable line, i think you have to keep that guy.

he also isn't looking to break a long one every time he touches the ball. so he gets to the line and a potential hole faster. marshawn skips around because he thinks hes going to stiff arm 3 guys, carry another 2 on his back and then out run a guy on every play.

[Thief]

so, let me ask you this... why the hell would a 7-9 team with numerous glaring holes draft a "project," especially with someone like Orakpo, who plays the same position, still on the board?

If Maybin doesn't become a starter and contribute this season, then it was a terrible draft pick. Even if he develops in another year or two- the best case scenario is that we lost 2-3 years of Orakpo's productivity while waiting for Maybin to develop. ****ing stupid.It was terrible, but those drafters are gone. Can't do anything bout it now.

[Mahdi]

Maybin = completely wasted pick and bust.
Calling him a bust makes no sense and you know it.

[HHURRICANE]

I have pushing the Jackson trade idea since February or so.You move him now, while his value is at its peak.

I think this a good move if Joquie bell is as good as advertised. If he's another Omon I'd rather keep Jackson.

Bottom line though is I'm really struggling on how they are going to work Jackson, Spiller, and Lynch in effectively.

[DraftBoy]

I have pushing the Jackson trade idea since February or so.You move him now, while his value is at its peak.

You know he brings far more value to this team than just what happens on the field. Im not saying I would trade Jackson at the right price, but what off the field ramifications do you have by letting a guy you know is a leader go?

[CAbills]

By that flawless logic, we just have to wait til Trent is 40 years old to have an MVP season like Farve last year.



**** **** ****!!

Quit the ****ing Orakpo ****! He isn't a ****ing Bill! We need to move on!!

GOOD NEWS!! Maybin is 22, and Orakpo is 24. So when Orakpo is washing up, Maybin will still be in his prime. That should be around the time that Nix's vision begins to really take shape and the Bills rattle off 5 straight SB wins!!

[FlyingDutchman]

I hope Troup and Carrington can contribute considering our last 2 defensive first round picks are fighting for time...