solid question about Brian Brohm

[pintonick96]

Okay, why the **** are people thinking Brian Brohm should be the starter on this team? When was the last time he had a productive season?

2006.

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Why don't we just pick up Colt Brennan? He atleast could win a few games his senior year of college. Or What about Graham Harrell? He threw for a ****load of yards in college and he's doing nothing. His last productive year was atleast 2008.

The only reason ppl want Brohm is because he's not Trent or Fitzy. Fitzy atleast won a few games last year for us.

So like I say every year you ****ing nerds, go back to finding information out about the Bills so I don't have to dig for it and leave your god damn opinions to your ****ing self.

[buffalobillsfan95]

Well it can't hurt to put any qb in as starter were most likely will be choosing a quarterback in the first round anyways

[JCBills]

Okay, why the **** are people thinking Brian Brohm should be the starter on this team? When was the last time he had a productive season?

2006.

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Why don't we just pick up Colt Brennan? He atleast could win a few games his senior year of college. Or What about Graham Harrell? He threw for a ****load of yards in college and he's doing nothing. His last productive year was atleast 2008.

The only reason ppl want Brohm is because he's not Trent or Fitzy. Fitzy atleast won a few games last year for us.

So like I say every year you ****ing nerds, go back to finding information out about the Bills so I don't have to dig for it and leave your god damn opinions to your ****ing self.

This is one of the most recycled lines on here. Brohm improved in almost every statistical category on a personal level. The team's record was worse, yeah, but the defense wasn't helping the cause much. The D lost Okoye and others. The only time Brohm failed to put up a good amount of points was against USF, where he faced Mike Jenkins and Trae Williams, which was a very, very good college CB tandem. The defense allowed 377 points that year.

Also appears you don't understand the difference between a spread and a pro system with your references, good job.

[better days]

Okay, why the **** are people thinking Brian Brohm should be the starter on this team? When was the last time he had a productive season?

2006.

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Why don't we just pick up Colt Brennan? He atleast could win a few games his senior year of college. Or What about Graham Harrell? He threw for a ****load of yards in college and he's doing nothing. His last productive year was atleast 2008.

The only reason ppl want Brohm is because he's not Trent or Fitzy. Fitzy atleast won a few games last year for us.

So like I say every year you ****ing nerds, go back to finding information out about the Bills so I don't have to dig for it and leave your god damn opinions to your ****ing self.

I don't know if Brohm should be the starter, but I can't wait to see what he has this Thursday.

His senior year he had a new HC, new system & lost players to graduation from the year before.

In his "****y" year 2007, Brohm passed for over 4000 Yds, Threw 30 TD's vs 12 INT's for a QB rating of 152. Those are FAR BETTER stats than Trent has. Trent has passed for over 2000 yds only once in 2008 for the Bills.

[YardRat]

Because he's not Edwards or Fitzpatrick.

That was easy enough.

Next?

[Philagape]

His senior year he had a new HC, new system & lost players to graduation from the year before.

Just like now!

[better days]

Just like now!

Well Brohm has said that unlike Green Bay, this system is very similar to the one he ran in Louisville & he is very comfortable in it.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is one of the most recycled lines on here. Brohm improved in almost every statistical category on a personal level. The team's record was worse, yeah, but the defense wasn't helping the cause much. The D lost Okoye and others. The only time Brohm failed to put up a good amount of points was against USF, where he faced Mike Jenkins and Trae Williams, which was a very, very good college CB tandem. The defense allowed 377 points that year.

Also appears you don't understand the difference between a spread and a pro system with your references, good job.

The stats that got worse:

Yards per attempt went down
Sacks went up
TD to Int ratio went down
QB Rating down
Ints per attempt went up



the improved ones:

Completion % went up
TDs per attempt went up

Most of his stats got worse as was originally stated.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=164609

[Ingtar33]

Okay, why the **** are people thinking Brian Brohm should be the starter on this team? When was the last time he had a productive season?

2006.

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Why don't we just pick up Colt Brennan? He atleast could win a few games his senior year of college. Or What about Graham Harrell? He threw for a ****load of yards in college and he's doing nothing. His last productive year was atleast 2008.

The only reason ppl want Brohm is because he's not Trent or Fitzy. Fitzy atleast won a few games last year for us.

So like I say every year you ****ing nerds, go back to finding information out about the Bills so I don't have to dig for it and leave your god damn opinions to your ****ing self.


so... you don't watch college football i guess. His senior year was mostly superior to his jr year

2006 199 313 3049 63.6 9.74 75 16 5 17 159.08
2007 308 473 4024 65.1 8.51 81 29 12 25 151.73

[Dr. Lecter]

so... you don't watch college football i guess. His senior year was mostly superior to his jr year

2006 199 313 3049 63.6 9.74 75 16 5 17 159.08
2007 308 473 4024 65.1 8.51 81 29 12 25 151.73
Really?

His senior year was way worse.

take a closer look at the numbers.

I broke then down already.

[better days]

The stats that got worse:

Yards per attempt went down
Sacks went up
TD to Int ratio went down
QB Rating down
Ints per attempt went up



the improved ones:

Completion % went up
TDs per attempt went up

Most of his stats got worse as was originally stated.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=164609

30 TD's vs 12 INT's

152 QB rating

Over 4000 Yds passing

In his "down" year. I will take a starting QB on the Bills with those numbers GLADLY.

[Nighthawk]

The stats that got worse:

Yards per attempt went down
Sacks went up
TD to Int ratio went down
QB Rating down
Ints per attempt went up



the improved ones:

Completion % went up
TDs per attempt went up

Most of his stats got worse as was originally stated.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=164609

Man, you seriously have it in for Brohm. You really have nothing to say to people who continue to post their support for him...you do exactly the same thing, but on the negative side of things.

[Dr. Lecter]

Man, you seriously have it in for Brohm. You really have nothing to say to people who continue to post their support for him...you do exactly the same thing, but on the negative side of things.


That is because he has done nothing and has not earned any positive praise.

I hope he works out. I really do. I would love to be wrong.

But history suggests I am not.

[better days]

Really?

His senior year was way worse.

take a closer look at the numbers.

I broke then down already.

Yeah, because throwing for over 4000 YDs, 30TD's vs 12INT's, 152 QB rating sucks. I wish we had a guy like that on the Bills..........oh wait, we do, Brian Brohm!!!!

[Nighthawk]

That is because he has done nothing and has not earned any positive praise.

I hope he works out. I really do. I would love to be wrong.

But history suggests I am not.

You know that I'm not pushing for any of these QB's, but I can seriously state that I have no idea how Brohm would do...he hasn't been give a chance. Those who state he has are incorrect. Did he get beat by a 7th rounder? Yes, but there are other players who have failed at their first shot in this league and then had solid careers. I'm not suggesting he will be one them, but you cannot say definitively that he won't...that kind of talk is a little ignorant. On the other hand, it's also ignorant to believe he is the answer to our problems. Without seeing him given an opportunity, nobody can really be sure.

[JCBills]

The stats that got worse:

Yards per attempt went down
Sacks went up
TD to Int ratio went down
QB Rating down
Ints per attempt went up



the improved ones:

Completion % went up
TDs per attempt went up

Most of his stats got worse as was originally stated.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=164609

Completion % went up with 160 more attempts, very impressive stat.

Brohm lost his top two backs, forcing the offense to be a little more one sided, and probably forcing him to try to do more on the field. Yeah, the ratio went down, but I would take 29 TDs and 12 INTs over 16 TDs and 5 INTs any day.

Sacked 8 more times on 160+ more dropbacks, also would have to look at OL play so this stat doesn't mean much, other than showing he can take a hit.

YPA went down, yeah again with the previously mentioned 160 extra attempts, larger sample size usually does that, still an impressive YPA from a pro system. If that's considered valid, then so should the 975 yd increase in his passing total.

[Philagape]

Yeah, because throwing for over 4000 YDs, 30TD's vs 12INT's, 152 QB rating sucks. I wish we had a guy like that on the Bills..........oh wait, we do, Brian Brohm!!!!

Are you really using college stats to make a case for an NFL QB? Really?

[JCBills]

You know that I'm not pushing for any of these QB's, but I can seriously state that I have no idea how Brohm would do...he hasn't been give a chance. Those who state he has are incorrect. Did he get beat by a 7th rounder? Yes, but there are other players who have failed at their first shot in this league and then had solid careers. I'm not suggesting he will be one them, but you cannot say definitively that he won't...that kind of talk is a little ignorant. On the other hand, it's also ignorant to believe he is the answer to our problems. Without seeing him given an opportunity, nobody can really be sure.

All I'm saying is that he has a few things that could give reason for hope. That's all anyone has, hope. I don't care who wins games for us as long as we win.

[better days]

Are you really using college stats to make a case for an NFL QB? Really?

Well, that is all we have to go on for now & his college stats are MUCH MORE impressive than Trents College stats. As I said I can't wait to see what Brohm does on Thursday, as well as Trent.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Are you really using college stats to make a case for an NFL QB? Really?Seriously? What do you expect NFL scouts to use?

[Philagape]

Well, that is all we have to go on for now

So there's nothing to go on. Thanks for that honesty! :rofl:

[Demon]

Okay, why the **** are people thinking Brian Brohm should be the starter on this team? When was the last time he had a productive season?

2006.

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Why don't we just pick up Colt Brennan? He atleast could win a few games his senior year of college. Or What about Graham Harrell? He threw for a ****load of yards in college and he's doing nothing. His last productive year was atleast 2008.

The only reason ppl want Brohm is because he's not Trent or Fitzy. Fitzy atleast won a few games last year for us.

So like I say every year you ****ing nerds, go back to finding information out about the Bills so I don't have to dig for it and leave your god damn opinions to your ****ing self.

Edwards got all the fans excited because he wasn't "JP Losman".

And, Brian Brohm is not "Trent Edwards".

There is no other reason.

[better days]

So there's nothing to go on. Thanks for that honesty! :rofl:

You're welcome. I think there is enough to go on to give the guy a shot & see what he has. Don't you?

[Philagape]

You're welcome. I think there is enough to go on to give the guy a shot & see what he has. Don't you?

I've supported an open competition all along.

[Demon]

I've supported an open competition all along.

Me too, and from reading these forums, most have. However, the only man who doesn't see it our way is the only man who counts, Chan Gailey. Anyone who's been at St. John Fisher college to watch them practice can tell you who the #1 QB is even if you're not a football fan.

[JCBills]

I've supported an open competition all along.

Then that's all anyone is really saying. Even the preseason isn't a fully fair stage to judge him on. He hasn't had a legit shot in an NFL start yet, and for some guys it doesn't click until they've taken their lumps and figure out the NFL game. Trent has had 30 chances, Brohm has had zero. Trent didn't exactly do anything to wow anyone before he got his chance due to injury.

[better days]

Me too, and from reading these forums, most have. However, the only man who doesn't see it our way is the only man who counts, Chan Gailey. Anyone who's been at St. John Fisher college to watch them practice can tell you who the #1 QB is even if you're not a football fan.

Agreed, Chan is the man. I trust he will pick the best QB to lead the team this year.

He has said Trent earned the right to be #1 in OTA's, but he also said it was still an open competition.

If Trent plays the next 3 games like the last one & either Brohm or Fitz show anything, I will trust that Chan keeps his word & plays the best man.

[Mad Max]

Brohm may indeed suck, but even if he sucks more than the Captain he can only help this team.

Because guess what 7-9 seasons get you? NOT a ***** thing but 2-3 slots OUT of a draft position that could land you a foundational pick, like Franchise QB or OT.

That's the only difference between 2-14 which is worst case scenario with Brohm and the 7-9 max efficiency we could reasonably expect out of the Cap'n.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Then why, pray tell, was he projected as a first-round draft pick? Why, then, did he get picked up in the second round of the draft? If your claim that he's a "college system QB" is true, then he would've ended up at the bottom of the heap with the Josh Heupels, Jason Whites, Ken Dorseys, Major Applewhites, Rohan Davies, and the countless other college QBs on championship or near-championship teams that got drafted in the 6th round, 7th round, or not at all, and were never expected to amount to anything in this league. The Bills are not the only ones that thought highly of Mr. Brohm-- every chance he has had, he has succeeded. How many high school players make the cover of Sports Illustrated? Yet Brian did. Even in 2007, the supposed garbage year, he played well, even when the team around him imploded.

You have no information "looked up" in your post, just a subjective claim about his 2007 season, and the ****ing insults aren't helping your credibility. And sir, if you are indeed a sir, this is a message board. We're allowed to have opinions.

[Dr. Lecter]

You know that I'm not pushing for any of these QB's, but I can seriously state that I have no idea how Brohm would do...he hasn't been give a chance. Those who state he has are incorrect. Did he get beat by a 7th rounder? Yes, but there are other players who have failed at their first shot in this league and then had solid careers. I'm not suggesting he will be one them, but you cannot say definitively that he won't...that kind of talk is a little ignorant. On the other hand, it's also ignorant to believe he is the answer to our problems. Without seeing him given an opportunity, nobody can really be sure.
I am hardly and overwhelmingly negative person on sports teams in this town.

And I certainly think there is a chance Brohm can make it. But that chance is extremely small.

As for getting a chance, think about how bad he must have been for a team like GB (who has solid talent evaluators) to dump a 2nd round pick to keep a 7th round pick.

I have no problem with him getting a chance. But let's be realistic how slim the odds of it working out are.

I guess I look at it this way - You know how you feel about Sabres Management? That is about where I am on Brohm, except even lower. Because he has done way less than Darcy ever has.

[Dr. Lecter]

30 TD's vs 12 INT's

152 QB rating

Over 4000 Yds passing

In his "down" year. I will take a starting QB on the Bills with those numbers GLADLY.
Point is, the stats did get worse, not better.

[JCBills]

Point is, the stats did get worse, not better.

These are base statistics, easy to twist with standalone ratios like you presented. I wish we had full metric representation, but we don't. Despite the ratio differences, 29 is still more than 16.

[Mr. Pink]

Brohm if he entered the draft after his Junior year, would have been a first round pick.

His draft stock fell a little because his senior year was not as good as his junior year.

Period.

I don't see how anyone could possibly argue his senior year was better.

[acehole]

I dont think he of fitzy or trent is the answer...

But he is the untrent for now...



Okay, why the **** are people thinking Brian Brohm should be the starter on this team? When was the last time he had a productive season?

2006.

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Why don't we just pick up Colt Brennan? He atleast could win a few games his senior year of college. Or What about Graham Harrell? He threw for a ****load of yards in college and he's doing nothing. His last productive year was atleast 2008.

The only reason ppl want Brohm is because he's not Trent or Fitzy. Fitzy atleast won a few games last year for us.

So like I say every year you ****ing nerds, go back to finding information out about the Bills so I don't have to dig for it and leave your god damn opinions to your ****ing self.

[Buffalogic]

So now you are all agreeing to hope Brohm is good...Great. I'm glad we've admitted he's a total scrub and it would be a miracle for him to play like a real NFL starter. But as long as we all collectively hope the ultra scrub turns into superman then we can all be happy.....Pipe dreams are fun.

[better days]

Point is, the stats did get worse, not better.

Yeah, they got worse, with a new HC, New System, Loss of GOOD players on the team. Even so, they were GREAT NUMBERS compared to the numbers any other Bills QB has put up.

[better days]

Brohm if he entered the draft after his Junior year, would have been a first round pick.

His draft stock fell a little because his senior year was not as good as his junior year.

Period.

I don't see how anyone could possibly argue his senior year was better.

I'm not arguing they were better than his Jr year, but they were still GREAT numbers & MUCH better than ANY Trent or Ryan has EVER put up even in their best years.

[Philagape]

I'm not arguing they were better than his Jr year, but they were still GREAT numbers & MUCH better than ANY Trent or Ryan has EVER put up even in their best years.

They're better than any season Jim Kelly had too.

Brian Brohm is the best QB in Bills history!

[Philagape]

Seriously? What do you expect NFL scouts to use?

That is just brilliant.
I mean, why should NFL teams, scouting services, media, etc., waste all that money on actual scouts when they can just take two minutes to look at a guy's stats??
All those hotels, airfares ... total waste!

:brilliant:

[Philagape]

Comparing college stats to NFL stats.

All these years, you think you'd seen it all on this board.

[Dr. Lecter]

These are base statistics, easy to twist with standalone ratios like you presented. I wish we had full metric representation, but we don't. Despite the ratio differences, 29 is still more than 16.
Twist?

12 is more than 5. By a greater margin than 29 being greater than 16.

Sure his TDs went up. His ints went up by a greater margin.

[Night Train]

Brown is our future QB for now. The Bills just don't wish to get him killed early on.

He's been already promised the #3 QB slot ( according to Chris Brown ) for a reason.

[JCBills]

Twist?

12 is more than 5. By a greater margin than 29 being greater than 16.

Sure his TDs went up. His ints went up by a greater margin.

Repeating doesn't prove a weak point.

[Dr. Lecter]

Repeating doesn't prove a weak point.


So the increase in TDs is important, but the increase in Ints is not? Interesting.

Tell which of his stats improved his senior year. His senior year was worse than his junior year, at least from a statistical point.

[better days]

Comparing college stats to NFL stats.

All these years, you think you'd seen it all on this board.

I only compared Trents NFL stats to Brohms college stats because I wanted to use Trent's best stats as a comparison & thoses came as a Bill. If you only want to compare college stats great, feel free. Brohms College stats are so much better than Trent's that Trent should not even be given any consideration.

[better days]

Twist?

12 is more than 5. By a greater margin than 29 being greater than 16.

Sure his TDs went up. His ints went up by a greater margin.

I read on WIKI it was 30 not 29 anyway, 29 or 30 TD's vs 12 INT's in Brohms Sr. College year is FAR BETTER than any year Trent or Fitz had in College.

Trent as a Bill, 24 TDs VS 25 INT's. I have no doubt that with 3 years playing time Brohm can beat those numbers.

[better days]

That is just brilliant.
I mean, why should NFL teams, scouting services, media, etc., waste all that money on actual scouts when they can just take two minutes to look at a guy's stats??
All those hotels, airfares ... total waste!

:brilliant:

So you are saying NFL teams, scouts, media don't look at stats when scouting a College player? I suppose they don't use stats in the NFL either then.

[better days]

They're better than any season Jim Kelly had too.

Brian Brohm is the best QB in Bills history!

While in College anyway. I think with those kind of numbers he at least deserves a look to see how he does in the NFL. As much as some of you want to hate on him he is still a young guy & he could yet develop into a good NFL QB.

[Coach Sal]

He had awesome numbers throughout college. Especially his TDs, yards, and compl. %. They all pretty much stayed consistent, and even went up.

But after Petrino left, he got sacked way more (more than his soph + jun seasons combined) and he threw a lot more picks (17 to 25 is a sizable jump).

So, yeah, they lost good players, and of course it was because he had a different coach. But that's the point! He showed, unfortunately for him, that he wasn't as good in Kragthorpe's system. He was a bit exposed. (I know that's a tough word to use, but I couldn't think of a better one. He was still really good).

As FunTimes said, this is exactly the reason he went from a potential #1 pick after his junior year to not even a 1st rounder after his senior year.

He wasn't hurt. He still had great numbers. So why was he re-evaluated so differently? He clearly made more mistakes (sacked more and turned ball over more) once he was in a different environment which asked him to do some different things.

I'm all for giving the guy a shot. Maybe he can be a good NFL QB. But I'm not sure how anyone can look at the numbers and discount the huge jump in the sacks and turnovers and still say he was bettter, or even as good? He wasn't, despite his still gaudy TD/Yards stats.

[jmb1099]

He had awesome numbers throughout college. Especially his TDs, yards, and compl. %. They all pretty much stayed consistent, and even went up.

But after Petrino left, he got sacked way more (more than his soph + jun seasons combined) and he threw a lot more picks (17 to 25 is a sizable jump).

So, yeah, they lost good players, and of course it was because he had a different coach. But that's the point! He showed, unfortunately for him, that he wasn't as good in Kragthorpe's system. He was a bit exposed. (I know that's a tough word to use, but I couldn't think of a better one. He was still really good).

As FunTimes said, this is exactly the reason he went from a potential #1 pick after his junior year to not even a 1st rounder after his senior year.

He wasn't hurt. He still had great numbers. So why was he re-evaluated so differently? He clearly made more mistakes (sacked more and turned ball over more) once he was in a different environment which asked him to do some different things.

I'm all for giving the guy a shot. Maybe he can be a good NFL QB. But I'm not sure how anyone can look at the numbers and discount the huge jump in the sacks and turnovers and still say he was bettter, or even as good? He wasn't, despite his still gaudy TD/Yards stats.
Very well said. However, his "bad" numbers are better than most. Also, if the point is that he's a system QB than fine. Many other notable QB's have been called the same thing and have gone on to win championships. Nobody in NE cares if Marsha is a system QB or not. They care about wins and to be quite honest that's all we should care about as well. But we're so used to our season being over before it starts that we bicker about the most ridiculous things. Let's apply some common sense. If Brohm can put up crazy numbers in the right system than build that system. In fact, Brohm has already stated that the current system is very similar, which brings me back to the same point that I keep making. The only thing that matters is game time and if he can sustain drives and score TD's than that is all that matters. I am amazed that this point seems lost on so many.

[Philagape]

So you are saying NFL teams, scouts, media don't look at stats when scouting a College player? I suppose they don't use stats in the NFL either then.

Good!

"Lies, damn lies and ...."

The OP mentioned Colt Brennan. Here are some of his stats:

* Second all-time in most career touchdowns responsible for (146).
* NCAA record for most 400 yard games (20).
* Tied NCAA record for most career touchdown passes by a quarterback-receiver combination (39 to Davone Bess).
* NCAA single-season record for most touchdown passes (58)
* NCAA two-season record for most touchdown passes (96)
* NCAA record for passing efficiency (season), posting a 186.0 mark in 2006
* NCAA record for most points responsible for (season) with 385.
* NCAA record for highest pass completion percentage (70.4%).
* Second all-time in career touchdown passes (131) behind Graham Harrell.
* Fourth all-time in total passing yards with 14,193 behind Graham Harrell, Ty Detmer and Timmy Chang.

WOW, look at those numbers!!! Colt Brennan will be a Hall of Famer!!

[Philagape]

Very well said. However, his "bad" numbers are better than most. Also, if the point is that he's a system QB than fine. Many other notable QB's have been called the same thing and have gone on to win championships. Nobody in NE cares if Marsha is a system QB or not. They care about wins and to be quite honest that's all we should care about as well. But we're so used to our season being over before it starts that we bicker about the most ridiculous things. Let's apply some common sense. If Brohm can put up crazy numbers in the right system than build that system. In fact, Brohm has already stated that the current system is very similar, which brings me back to the same point that I keep making. The only thing that matters is game time and if he can sustain drives and score TD's than that is all that matters. I am amazed that this point seems lost on so many.

But what people are disregarding is that the NFL really is a whole new world. So much faster, so much more complex schemes, so much better defenses.
That's why there have been so many busts, and why college becomes nothing but a distant memory.

[ddaryl]

wow Bills nation has degraded to the point we are actually arguing over which craptastic QB should start..

and does anyone think our Win / Loss record is going to change dramatically if we pick one QB over the other ???

I didn't think so, so this debate is useless

[Jan Reimers]

This is one of the most recycled lines on here. Brohm improved in almost every statistical category on a personal level. The team's record was worse, yeah, but the defense wasn't helping the cause much. The D lost Okoye and others. The only time Brohm failed to put up a good amount of points was against USF, where he faced Mike Jenkins and Trae Williams, which was a very, very good college CB tandem. The defense allowed 377 points that year.

Also appears you don't understand the difference between a spread and a pro system with your references, good job.
I hate it when facts get in the way of an irrational rant.

[dannyek71]

Why are we debating what he has done in college? He is starting his 3rd yr in the NFL. He playing only 1 game in 2 years and being a 2nd round pick who was cut after 1 is the most telling fact that ANYONE can pull up.

Who cares what anyone did a number of years ago in college. Crap, years ago I could throw a football over a mountain, but you do not hear me bragging.

[Philagape]

Big East, AFC East, what's the difference??? :crazy:

[HHURRICANE]

I have to laugh a little.

I get accused of being a big Edwards homer but I have been objectively critical of him and have gone as far to say that he is not the right QB for this team. I critcized the way he took his benching and the lack of leadership that he has displayed. I point out where last week the line didn't give him time to throw, time the snaps, and have it backed up by the head coach, and I get accused of being a nut hugger.

Than the Brohm fans come out here and all they can do is provide excuses on why Brohm hasn't panned out in this league and than have to go back to college stats to make their point.

If Brohm was any threat to starting or actually helping us win he wouldn't be getting his first start in the second pre-season game, behind Edwards. He's still sharing 2nd team snaps with Fitzpatrick this week.

After tommorrow night I hope we can get back to talking about something else.

[jmb1099]

But what people are disregarding is that the NFL really is a whole new world. So much faster, so much more complex schemes, so much better defenses.
That's why there have been so many busts, and why college becomes nothing but a distant memory.
I don't think anyone is disregarding this and I'm fairly certain everyone realizes that the NFL is a different animal. I'm not saying his college experience will equate to NFL success or failure. What I am saying is simply this: No one really knows who he is right now. IN fact he may not know that himself considering what has transpired early on in his career. I am in no way stating he will be a success. IN fact, if he can't out-perform the sad circus we witnessed on Friday I would rip the band aid off quickly and dispense with the inevitable. But there isn't anyone on this board that will convince me they know how this is going to play out without seeing him play. And don't say Atlanta... anyone with any sense recognizes what last year was.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Okay, why the **** are people thinking Brian Brohm should be the starter on this team? When was the last time he had a productive season?

2006.

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Why don't we just pick up Colt Brennan? He atleast could win a few games his senior year of college. Or What about Graham Harrell? He threw for a ****load of yards in college and he's doing nothing. His last productive year was atleast 2008.

The only reason ppl want Brohm is because he's not Trent or Fitzy. Fitzy atleast won a few games last year for us.

So like I say every year you ****ing nerds, go back to finding information out about the Bills so I don't have to dig for it and leave your god damn opinions to your ****ing self.
lol wouldn't the common sense thing be if you don't want to hear opinions, to not create threads where opinions are a normal circumstance of most message boards?

[jmb1099]

I am personally impressed that you've found a way to make more zone bucks per thread than nearly every other poster on this board.
You were a big Edwards homer and contrary to popular belief around here that's ok. However you watched Friday's game and came to the same painful conclusion the rest of us did and you had to let it go.
As far as Brohm goes his college career is what it is. It can and should be referenced. Obviously the numbers don't hold as much weight as if they were NFL numbers, but that doesn't mean they don't have some merit.
Whatever transpired in Green bay is a bit of a mystery. Most of us here don't follow Packers football well enough to have witnessed anything first hand. We know the outcome, so the question now is was it justified or not? We'll see Thursday.
Atlanta? Don't, just don't.
I am more than willing to move on if he sucks it up, are you willing to accept it if he is successful?

I have to laugh a little.

I get accused of being a big Edwards homer but I have been objectively critical of him and have gone as far to say that he is not the right QB for this team. I critcized the way he took his benching and the lack of leadership that he has displayed. I point out where last week the line didn't give him time to throw, time the snaps, and have it backed up by the head coach, and I get accused of being a nut hugger.

Than the Brohm fans come out here and all they can do is provide excuses on why Brohm hasn't panned out in this league and than have to go back to college stats to make their point.

If Brohm was any threat to starting or actually helping us win he wouldn't be getting his first start in the second pre-season game, behind Edwards. He's still sharing 2nd team snaps with Fitzpatrick this week.

After tommorrow night I hope we can get back to talking about something else.

[pintonick96]

All Im saying is a guy goes on the Practice Squad for a reason. He's not an NFL QB. Lets go pick up Harrell, and Brennan, and Timmy Chang, and David Klinger, and Andre Ware. Guys who put up BS numbers in college systems who cant translate to NFL. We have a better chance with Daunte Culpepper than Brohm. I hope I'm wrong, but like I said, leave your ****in opinions at the door and just dig for the info you ****ing nerds.


Sal, as always, I love your input and keep doing what you do brother.

[Coach Sal]

I hate it when facts get in the way of an irrational rant.

Jan, what is non-factual and/or irrational about his sacks and turnovers ALSO taking major jumps coinciding with the change of coach?

Sacks:
17
17
25

INTs:
5
5
12

If we want to look at the numbers and discuss his great TD and yardage numbers....these numbers have to matter, too.

[ddaryl]

All Im saying is a guy goes on the Practice Squad for a reason. He's not an NFL QB. Lets go pick up Harrell, and Brennan, and Timmy Chang, and David Klinger, and Andre Ware. Guys who put up BS numbers in college systems who cant translate to NFL. We have a better chance with Daunte Culpepper than Brohm. I hope I'm wrong, but like I said, leave your ****in opinions at the door and just dig for the info you ****ing nerds.


Sal, as always, I love your input and keep doing what you do brother.


Because nobody in the history of the NFL and practrice squads has ever made an impact in the NFL ?????


I fail to see why we need to even debate who starts at the QB position.. WHom ever looks the best in preseason is the starter... So it will sort itself out regardless of how many more pages this thread goes on for

[HHURRICANE]

You mean there is a correlation between the line not protecting the QB and the way he plays???

I just thought Edwards hadn't mastered the technique of hitting deep balls with 1.8 seconds to get rid of it.

I thought Gailey stressing that protection for the QB is an issue on this team was a smoke screen to get Brohm ready to take the reigns.

[Coach Sal]

I don't think anyone is disregarding this and I'm fairly certain everyone realizes that the NFL is a different animal. I'm not saying his college experience will equate to NFL success or failure. What I am saying is simply this: No one really knows who he is right now. IN fact he may not know that himself considering what has transpired early on in his career. I am in no way stating he will be a success. IN fact, if he can't out-perform the sad circus we witnessed on Friday I would rip the band aid off quickly and dispense with the inevitable. But there isn't anyone on this board that will convince me they know how this is going to play out without seeing him play. And don't say Atlanta... anyone with any sense recognizes what last year was.

This is a great post.

Well stated, and I agree almost 100%.

I'm all for him playing and competing. I'm not all for handing him anything based on anything.

I say "almost" because there's something to be said for the Green Bay experience. He had a lot of talent around him, was drafted in the 2nd round (obviously they liked him A LOT), spent a couple years there, yet couldn't advance past the practice squad and was beaten out by a 7th rounder in Matt Flynn. There has to be reasons for that, not just a lot of stupid people evaluating him?!

[better days]

Jan, what is non-factual and/or irrational about his sacks and turnovers ALSO taking major jumps coinciding with the change of coach?

Sacks:
17
17
25

INTs:
5
5
12

If we want to look at the numbers and discuss his great TD and yardage numbers....these numbers have to matter, too.

It wasn't just the Coach that changed, the system changed & PLAYERS on the team changed. I would be happy with 12 INTs by a Bills QB if he also put up 30 TD's.

[Coach Sal]

It wasn't just the Coach that changed, the system changed & PLAYERS on the team changed. I would be happy with 12 INTs by a Bills QB if he also put up 30 TD's.

So, help to try and understand your argument/logic? Not sure I get it completely.

Are you saying that Brohm's stats at the college level are so much better than Bills QBs (mostly Trent) at the NFL level that it is proof he is or will be a better NFL QB?

If not, can you try to explain to me the reasoning of using his college stats vs. Bills QBs NFL stats? (Not trying to be pompous, I really want to understand what you mean).

[justasportsfan]

I don't think the only reason why ANYONE should start is because he earned it at camp. Not because they're unkown or because they have more experience,etc.

Fact is, every qb on this team is an unkown in Chans system.

[better days]

So, help to try and understand your argument/logic? Not sure I get it completely.

Are you saying that Brohm's stats at the college level are so much better than Bills QBs (mostly Trent) at the NFL level that it is proof he is or will be a better NFL QB?

If not, can you try to explain to me the reasoning of using his college stats vs. Bills QBs NFL stats? (Not trying to be pompous, I really want to understand what you mean).

No I am not saying his college stats are proof he will be any good at all. I only brought them up because the original poster said how crappy his SR. year was. I was just pointing out his numbers were still great that year. For comparison, I used Trents Bills stats because they are better than Trents College stats.

All I am saying is the guy is on the team & he deserves a chance to show us what he has, nothing more.

[jmb1099]

Thanks Sal.
I'm not saying hand him anything, he needs to prove himself.


This is a great post.

Well stated, and I agree almost 100%.

I'm all for him playing and competing. I'm not all for handing him anything based on anything.

I say "almost" because there's something to be said for the Green Bay experience. He had a lot of talent around him, was drafted in the 2nd round (obviously they liked him A LOT), spent a couple years there, yet couldn't advance past the practice squad and was beaten out by a 7th rounder in Matt Flynn. There has to be reasons for that, not just a lot of stupid people evaluating him?!

[pintonick96]

Let's look at it this way. He couldn't' beat out Matt Flynn in Green Bay. The same Matt Flynn who couldn't beat out Jamarcus Russell at LSU. I'm just saying. You don't get beat out by the 7th round guy when you're the 2nd round guy for no reason.

[Mr. Pink]

So, help to try and understand your argument/logic? Not sure I get it completely.

Are you saying that Brohm's stats at the college level are so much better than Bills QBs (mostly Trent) at the NFL level that it is proof he is or will be a better NFL QB?

If not, can you try to explain to me the reasoning of using his college stats vs. Bills QBs NFL stats? (Not trying to be pompous, I really want to understand what you mean).


I'll explain for you Coach!

His last name isn't Edwards or Fitzpatrick.

That is all.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Here is something to toss into this melting pot when it comes to Brohm and Fitzpatrick. These 2 QBs are here because they failed somewhere else. Fitzpatrick didn't exactly set the free agent world on fire and Brohm didn't exactly garner blockbuster trade status. Just like Edwards, both these QBs have their share of flaws unbecoming of a good starting QB, or neither one of them would be here. This team is at a point of picking the guy that will net us the least amount of collateral damage on the field for 2010.

But we also need a number 2 who can step in immediately and know exactly what Gailey wants to do, and how to execute it. Trent Edwards is widely known for 2 things, checking down, and getting injured a lot. If Edwards is the number 1, we still need to find a number 2 that is adequate enough to step in if, and when Trent does go down to injury. Ignoring or not wanting to hear about a QB competition now because it looks like Edwards will by the guy will prove to be a very costly mistake.

Finally, Gailey maintains that his options are still open when it comes to this competition. None of the positions are set in stone yet. Those were his words. Why? because neither Edwards, Fitzpatrick, or Brohm have really stepped up and separated from the pack. Until one emerges as the definitive it guy, it will remain that way. In fact, the only reason Edwards is first team now is because he is the final choice should Fitzpatrick, or Brohm fail to step up and take charge. Gailey is basically saying to Fitzpatrick and Brohm that "here it is for the taking, come and get it, or it goes to Edwards". Fitzpatrick got his shot last week, and now it's Brohm's turn. All we can do as fans to this point is just sit back and see how it plays out. After tomorrow, we will most likely have our QB rotation set for 2010. JMO...

[JCBills]

So the increase in TDs is important, but the increase in Ints is not? Interesting.

Tell which of his stats improved his senior year. His senior year was worse than his junior year, at least from a statistical point.

Like I said, standalone stats mean almost nothing. The INT increase is significant, yes, but with the 160+ extra attempts taken into consideration, as well as the jump in TDs over the same period of time, it doesn't have much impact. Again, I wish we had full metric representation but we don't. INT increase could be due to him having to do more on the field with his top two RBs gone and the defense allowing 31 PPG.

[JCBills]

All Im saying is a guy goes on the Practice Squad for a reason. He's not an NFL QB. Lets go pick up Harrell, and Brennan, and Timmy Chang, and David Klinger, and Andre Ware. Guys who put up BS numbers in college systems who cant translate to NFL. We have a better chance with Daunte Culpepper than Brohm. I hope I'm wrong, but like I said, leave your ****in opinions at the door and just dig for the info you ****ing nerds.


Sal, as always, I love your input and keep doing what you do brother.

Again, someone fails to understand the difference between a college spread and a pro system. Brohm put up gaudy numbers in two pro systems. College stats still don't mean much, but out of pro systems, they carry more weight.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Let's look at it this way. He couldn't' beat out Matt Flynn in Green Bay. The same Matt Flynn who couldn't beat out Jamarcus Russell at LSU. I'm just saying. You don't get beat out by the 7th round guy when you're the 2nd round guy for no reason. Unless the management has a bone against you, or is simply boneheaded. Case in point, from another team in this city: Ted Nolan, despite having success as head coach of the Buffalo Sabres, was axed because new management wanted their own puppet (Regier/Ruff). I don't know the Packers' management details (heck, they don't even have an owner!), but it's not like there's no such thing as politics in NFL locker rooms. Chances are Brian ticked someone off in upper management and got punished for it. It's the only answer that makes sense, why would they dump a guy they drafted that high after only a year (where he saw no play) and one training camp? This isn't Levi Brown for crying out loud.

[Philagape]

Again, someone fails to understand the difference between a college spread and a pro system. Brohm put up gaudy numbers in two pro systems. College stats still don't mean much, but out of pro systems, they carry more weight.

The bigger gap in understanding is between pro systems in college and a pro league.

One can play a pro system on Madden.

[JCBills]

Jan, what is non-factual and/or irrational about his sacks and turnovers ALSO taking major jumps coinciding with the change of coach?

Sacks:
17
17
25

INTs:
5
5
12

If we want to look at the numbers and discuss his great TD and yardage numbers....these numbers have to matter, too.

Yeah, but this goes both ways. In this argument it seems that sacks are put on the QB's shoulders, whereas most of the time a Buffalo QB is sacked (except for Losman, he did it to himself all the time) people look at the OL. A lot of questions (which would be answered with a metric breakdown) would have to be asked to get a fair idea. How was the OL play? What was the impact of losing the #1 and #2 RB on the team? How well did the D replace Amobi Okoye? Were they coverage or pressure sacks? And so on.

[JCBills]

The bigger gap in understanding is between pro systems in college and a pro league.

One can play a pro system on Madden.

Not sure where you're going with that, just pointing out that the guy has no idea, but alright.

[JCBills]

Let's look at it this way. He couldn't' beat out Matt Flynn in Green Bay. The same Matt Flynn who couldn't beat out Jamarcus Russell at LSU. I'm just saying. You don't get beat out by the 7th round guy when you're the 2nd round guy for no reason.

Barry Sanders couldn't beat out Thurman Thomas at OK state, I'm just saying.

People will misread it and rage over it, but it isn't a comparison.

[pintonick96]

Hey *******, Thurman Thomas isn't nicknamed "The Black Ryan Leaf."

[Buffalogic]

So whose the stealth Brohm lover negging folks? You're a scrub too just like your boy Brohm.

[Ingtar33]

All Im saying is a guy goes on the Practice Squad for a reason. He's not an NFL QB. Lets go pick up Harrell, and Brennan, and Timmy Chang, and David Klinger, and Andre Ware. Guys who put up BS numbers in college systems who cant translate to NFL. We have a better chance with Daunte Culpepper than Brohm. I hope I'm wrong, but like I said, leave your ****in opinions at the door and just dig for the info you ****ing nerds.


Sal, as always, I love your input and keep doing what you do brother.

Well, I’m going to set aside a few things you said in there. currently I neither love nor hate Brohm...

I loved him as a college QB, and I thought he'd make a fantastic pro, even after his senior season. His status among scouts didn't fall until after the season was done, when he had some putrid workouts and interviews... and even then he was a 2nd round pick.

Why he failed in GB, I’ve no idea... That was probably as surprising to me as it was to the GB GM who drafted him in the 2nd round (btw: i do enjoy how the haters like to point to the quality GB Packer's talent evaluators to make his demotion to the PS furthermore damning, then ignore the fact those same people took him in round 2 of the draft)

Will he turn the corner? I hope so... the guy I saw in college had franchise written all over him. Buffalo could use that break. Unfortunately I’ve seen precious little that makes me think it will happen for him.

[Philagape]

(btw: i do enjoy how the haters like to point to the quality GB Packer's talent evaluators to make his demotion to the PS furthermore damning, then ignore the fact those same people took him in round 2 of the draft)

On the contrary, that just raises the question of how bad he could have been to make them do such an about-face that quickly. I don't think anyone thinks he was drafted too high.
It also illustrates the chasm between college ball and the NFL that has taken down so many other highly drafted QBs.

[JCBills]

So whose the stealth Brohm lover negging folks? You're a scrub too just like your boy Brohm.

Someone has been stealth negging me too, kinda funny.

[jmb1099]

On the contrary, that just raises the question of how bad he could have been to make them do such an about-face that quickly. I don't think anyone thinks he was drafted too high.
It also illustrates the chasm between college ball and the NFL that has taken down so many other highly drafted QBs.
There is no doubt it was bad, it had to be. But that doesn't began to address how or why it was so bad. I don't know and I don't really care. If he plays well than no one will remember the green bay debacle. That being said he could very easily go down in flames and if he does, he does. But there is nothing lost in seeing if he can pull it together. Considering the other QB's on the roster I would think more would hope he'd find success.

[Philagape]

There is no doubt it was bad, it had to be. But that doesn't began to address how or why it was so bad. I don't know and I don't really care. If he plays well than no one will remember the green bay debacle. That being said he could very easily go down in flames and if he does, he does. But there is nothing lost in seeing if he can pull it together. Considering the other QB's on the roster I would think more would hope he'd find success.

I hope I win the lottery too.

[jmb1099]

Okay, why the **** are people thinking Brian Brohm should be the starter on this team? When was the last time he had a productive season?

2006.

His Jr year of college. He was garbage his senior year with a new coach. He's a college system QB. Why don't we just pick up Colt Brennan? He atleast could win a few games his senior year of college. Or What about Graham Harrell? He threw for a ****load of yards in college and he's doing nothing. His last productive year was atleast 2008.

The only reason ppl want Brohm is because he's not Trent or Fitzy. Fitzy atleast won a few games last year for us.

So like I say every year you ****ing nerds, go back to finding information out about the Bills so I don't have to dig for it and leave your god damn opinions to your ****ing self.
Little grumpy aren't we? Health department ban you from cooking on an old nasty car?
Seriously if you don't want to hear other people's opinions maybe you shouldn't go looking for them in a forum that is built towards encouraging them.

[jmb1099]

I hope I win the lottery too.
You'd be throwing your money away. Letting Brohm have a shot and hoping he's successful costs nothing.

[Philagape]

You'd be throwing your money away. Letting Brohm have a shot and hoping he's successful costs nothing.

My hair.

[Coach Sal]

Yeah, but this goes both ways.....

Yes, which is my point, as well.

Everything and every reason you state could be 100% true of why these numbers increased the way they did. It could be the OL, the loss of RB, a worse defense, etc.

But it could also be because he was being asked to make an extra read and had trouble doing it and held on too long.....or make pre-snap adjustments that he couldn't handle which caused him to make a bad read or hold on too long.

There could also be something to the defenses he played against. After 3 years, maybe some DCs saw something he couldn't handle and played different coverages/schemes against him then they did the 2 years prior?

I'm not sure, but neither are you or anyone else. But I'd be willing to bet it's a combination of all of the above.

[JCBills]

Yes, which is my point, as well.

Everything and every reason you state could be 100% true of why these numbers increased the way they did. It could be the OL, the loss of RB, a worse defense, etc.

But it could also be because he was being asked to make an extra read and had trouble doing it and held on too long.....or make pre-snap adjustments that he couldn't handle which caused him to make a bad read or hold on too long.

There could also be something to the defenses he played against. After 3 years, maybe some DCs saw something he couldn't handle and played different coverages/schemes against him then they did the 2 years prior?

I'm not sure, but neither are you or anyone else. But I'd be willing to bet it's a combination of all of the above.

Never said I was sure, which is why I pretty much never speak in definite terms, we basically agree.

[jmb1099]

Lol! Fair enough brother, fair enough.

My hair.

[better days]

Yes, which is my point, as well.

Everything and every reason you state could be 100% true of why these numbers increased the way they did. It could be the OL, the loss of RB, a worse defense, etc.

But it could also be because he was being asked to make an extra read and had trouble doing it and held on too long.....or make pre-snap adjustments that he couldn't handle which caused him to make a bad read or hold on too long.

There could also be something to the defenses he played against. After 3 years, maybe some DCs saw something he couldn't handle and played different coverages/schemes against him then they did the 2 years prior?

I'm not sure, but neither are you or anyone else. But I'd be willing to bet it's a combination of all of the above.

Yeah, well maybe he couldn't handle something. If you call 30 TD's not being able to handle it.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, well maybe he couldn't handle something. If you call 30 TD's not being able to handle it.


He clearly declined hence why he fell out of favor as one of the top guys being drafted to a 2nd round pick and then subsequently allowed to walk away.

For all those people who say Green Bay tried to keep him but he snubbed them, if GB was truly interested in keeping him around he, not, Flynn would have made the actual roster.

It's been detailed out to death in this thread that he took more negative plays per percentage of dropback as a senior then he did as a junior. That's declining.

Falling around 30ish or so picks in the draft, is declining.

And here's how much Brohm could handle being an NFL player...

He got beat out for a roster spot by a 7th round pick and then admitted he wasn't mentally tough enough to handle that happening to him. When you're the QB, you have to have a thick skin and shrug off adversity. Once adversity gets the best of you, which in Brohm's case it clearly has, you're shot as a QB. If you doubt that look at Trent Edwards. He faced adversity in the form of getting smacked around by a porous O-line and is clearly affected by it, is there any doubt he's shot?

But hey, he's in Buffalo now so you know he has to be good and GB just wasn't smart about holding on to him.

[Buffalogic]

**** it lets get thigpen!

[better days]

He clearly declined hence why he fell out of favor as one of the top guys being drafted to a 2nd round pick and then subsequently allowed to walk away.

For all those people who say Green Bay tried to keep him but he snubbed them, if GB was truly interested in keeping him around he, not, Flynn would have made the actual roster.

It's been detailed out to death in this thread that he took more negative plays per percentage of dropback as a senior then he did as a junior. That's declining.

Falling around 30ish or so picks in the draft, is declining.

And here's how much Brohm could handle being an NFL player...

He got beat out for a roster spot by a 7th round pick and then admitted he wasn't mentally tough enough to handle that happening to him. When you're the QB, you have to have a thick skin and shrug off adversity. Once adversity gets the best of you, which in Brohm's case it clearly has, you're shot as a QB. If you doubt that look at Trent Edwards. He faced adversity in the form of getting smacked around by a porous O-line and is clearly affected by it, is there any doubt he's shot?

But hey, he's in Buffalo now so you know he has to be good and GB just wasn't smart about holding on to him.

I don't know if Brohm is going to be good or not, but then nobody else does either. As you said, we all know what we have with Trent.

[Coach Sal]

Yeah, well maybe he couldn't handle something. If you call 30 TD's not being able to handle it.

Yeah, and if you call going from 5 INTs to years in a row to 12 just your typical senior season for a projected top QB no concern whatsoever, I guess you'd have point.

But, hey, I actually think that's pretty important when evaluating his progression to the next level.

But the underlying point is still the same here for many of us. And that's that there's no reason he shouldn't at least get a shot. I'm simply pointing out POSSIBLE reasons WHY he hasn't been the great QB in the NFL many thought he'd be.