Jake Locker and DeMarcus Love?

[BillsWin]

Walterfootball has their 2011 mock out. Has us picking second in the draft and picking up Jake Locker and OT DeMarcus Love.

:mehmeh: Discuss.

[bigbub2352]

would not be upset with that if Bell works out ok u can sit him in at RT and cut Cornell Green he is a bum...or keep Bell at LT and let this kid play RT either way bye bye Green

Locker Luck or Mallett would make me happy

[BillsWin]

Locker or Luck if we pick top five. I wouldn't pick Mallet unless we picked in the 12-20 range.

[Slim]

I truly don't understand all this Locker love. He needs to show A LOT this year to even be considered a top 15 pick.

[scartown]

Locker, Ponder and Luck in that order

[Slim]

reading Locker threads truly show you who knows ANYTHING about what to look for in a QB. Locker is the best QB in the draft beacuse Mcshay had him as his top QB last year. ie Andre woodson.

[FlyingDutchman]

I truly don't understand all this Locker love. He needs to show A LOT this year to even be considered a top 15 pick.

you gotta watch him bud. he is on a god awful team and is the only reason they move the ball at all. great vision, great arm, great legs, tough kid and a smart kid. if he was on a powerhouse team youd see what hes capable of

[Slim]

I live in California. I watch pretty much every PAC 10 game. His accuracy is so suspect. One more year at Washington could really help him.

[FlyingDutchman]

I live in California. I watch pretty much every PAC 10 game. His accuracy is so suspect. One more year at Washington could really help him.

oh without a doubt another year will definitely help...personally i didnt see anything glaring about accuracy, but maybe i just chalked it up that he had to make most throws on the run. I love everything I mentioned previously about him though and the fact that hes just a sick athlete....kinda reminds of JP except hes not a moron. I think hed work excellent into Chans offense

[Slim]

Agreed. He reminds me a lot of Jp.

[DraftBoy]

:puke:

Horrible draft.

[FlyingDutchman]

Horrible? Yeah who would want one of the top QB and Tackle prospects in the draft....come on man

[DraftBoy]

Horrible? Yeah who would want one of the top QB and Tackle prospects in the draft....come on man

When we take those guys Ill happily applaud it, however Locker and Love are not those guys.

[FlyingDutchman]

When we take those guys Ill happily applaud it, however Locker and Love are not those guys.

so Locker at this point is not considered in the top 2 QBs coming out and Love is not in the top 5 offensive tackles coming out right now....thats what youre telling me?

[Slim]

Devlin and Ponder are the top two QB's.

[FlyingDutchman]

its pointless to argue about something like this at this point but just sayin...dont go against the grain for the hell of it, you cant deny that these guys are considered elite by most if not all real nfl draft experts

[FlyingDutchman]

Devlin and Ponder are the top two QB's.

cant disagree more...Ponder is good but that good

[DrGraves]

i dont want another california kid. i think we should just get a work horse qb who played and had success somewhere cold.

[DraftBoy]

so Locker at this point is not considered in the top 2 QBs coming out and Love is not in the top 5 offensive tackles coming out right now....thats what youre telling me?

That's what Im telling you.

[DraftBoy]

its pointless to argue about something like this at this point but just sayin...dont go against the grain for the hell of it, you cant deny that these guys are considered elite by most if not all real nfl draft experts

I never go against the grain for the hell of it.

[FlyingDutchman]

That's what Im telling you.

no offense man, but youre also the guy who was positive Donald Brown would be taken no earlier than about the 9th best back in the draft and i said no later than top 3...just sayin...ill stick to my guns here

[FlyingDutchman]

I never go against the grain for the hell of it.

well than i dont know how you can sit here and say they are not elite prospects...i form my own opinions, but just about all real draft experts would agree...

[DraftBoy]

no offense man, but youre also the guy who was positive Donald Brown would be taken no earlier than about the 9th best back in the draft and i said no later than top 3...just sayin...ill stick to my guns here

3.6 ypc, 281 yards last season...Im sticking to my guns as well.

[DraftBoy]

well than i dont know how you can sit here and say they are not elite prospects...i form my own opinions, but just about all real draft experts would agree...

I do love how you keep using the terms "real draft experts" in an attempt to invalidate my own opinion. That's well played.

[FlyingDutchman]

3.6 ypc, 281 yards last season...Im sticking to my guns as well.

we we're talking about where we said they were going to be drafted. dont stick too close to those.

[DraftBoy]

we we're talking about where we said they were going to be drafted. dont stick too close to those.

I told you where I had him graded, Polian took him earlier, like I said Im sticking to my guns on my grade and I feel really good about it.

[FlyingDutchman]

I do love how you keep using the terms "real draft experts" in an attempt to invalidate my own opinion. That's well played.

wasnt trying to be an a$$ or invalidate anything...no offense man but i dont put much into your self proclaimed expertise...

[FlyingDutchman]

I told you where I had him graded, Polian took him earlier, like I said Im sticking to my guns on my grade and I feel really good about it.

however you want to swing it man...howd that love fest with Ringer work out...

[FlyingDutchman]

alright im done...were getting off topic

[DraftBoy]

wasnt trying to be an a$$ or invalidate anything...no offense man but i dont put much into your self proclaimed expertise...

Oh dear lord...

[DraftBoy]

alright im done...were getting off topic

Anytime you want to breakdown the film and go over it point for counter point Im happy to do that. Nothing substantive was offered by anybody in this thread about actual ability or skills. No game breakdowns, no analytical thinking of progression or production.

My point being this was never really on topic.

[VeggieMan14]

if we cant get locker im on the ryan mallet band wagon... dudes got a gun

[Night Train]

There's a good chance the NFL will shut down in 2011, so who really cares ?

[X-Era]

if we cant get locker im on the ryan mallet band wagon... dudes got a gun

Id prefer Locker over Mallett. I like his demeanor better. It may just be a personal preference, but every time I see Mallet in an interview he comes off like a punk. On the football side, both were erratic as hell last year. You could watch either make a real nice play and then turn right around throw right at a defender. as Ing and others pointed out, both need to work on their footwork.

[X-Era]

Im going to bounce this to the Scouting Zone.

[Captain Obvious]

its pointless to argue about something like this at this point

Indeed..... At this time last year Draftboy had Jevan Snead at his No.1 Qb prospect and by April 2010 I'm sure he was singing a different tune

[X-Era]

Indeed..... At this time last year Draftboy had Jevan Snead at his No.1 Qb prospect and by April 2010 I'm sure he was singing a different tune
Its fluid. But to pick up on the Snead comment, many had him ranked that way, not just DB.

I think thats because so many of these guys look unpolished and erratic but have the talent to be good. That's especially true this year. Luck may be the closest thing to Bradford, polish wise, that this class has to offer. But even Luck has only done it one year. Most of these top guys are raw. Locker, Mallett, Devlin... all were erratic. Like Snead, you can see guys who have all the talent but who look erratic going into this year. We can rank them based on what they should do, and then they can have a bad year, or not develop the consistency and polish, and watch there draft status drop.

[Saratoga Slim]

I live in California. I watch pretty much every PAC 10 game. His accuracy is so suspect. One more year at Washington could really help him.

Yeah, I think I read that his pass completion has yet to break 60%. Part of that may be his supporting cast.....but still you gotta do better than that. Hopefully he does this year.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah, I think I read that his pass completion has yet to break 60%. Part of that may be his supporting cast.....but still you gotta do better than that. Hopefully he does this year.

47.3 in 07
53.8 in 08
58.2 in 09

Not even close yet and he has a 1,000 yard RB and a 1,000 yard WR as well, so the idea that he has no talent around him is just flat wrong.

Don't get me wrong and had people read what Ive written in the past on Locker they would see that I think he has immense potential and talent however he has not yet put it all together as a QB prospect. Drafting him is drafting on potential similar to what Oakland did with Jamarcus Russell (and Im not comparing the two, simply pointing out a similar situation). Sometimes it turns out, sometimes it doesn't. In all honesty I hope he gets better but right now he's not a #1 but he is going in the right direction and that is thanks to Coack Sark. I have him as low 1st Rounder right now.

[k-oneputt]

Why don't you 'experts" wait and see what Locker does this year with another season under a real offensive/qb coach.
I'll say it right now, Wash. will score points this season and Locker will be the one putting the offense into the endzone. Go fiqure from there.

[ddaryl]

Anytime you want to breakdown the film and go over it point for counter point Im happy to do that. Nothing substantive was offered by anybody in this thread about actual ability or skills. No game breakdowns, no analytical thinking of progression or production.

My point being this was never really on topic.


as much as a I value your insight in regards to the draft... you do come across as very anal and superior to the rest.

[DraftBoy]

Why don't you 'experts" wait and see what Locker does this year with another season under a real offensive/qb coach.
I'll say it right now, Wash. will score points this season and Locker will be the one putting the offense into the endzone. Go fiqure from there.

Washington put up plenty of points last season, and like I said they had a 1,000 yard WR in Kearse and a 1,000 yard back in Polk. Scoring shouldn't be an issue and its not indicative of anything either as far as translation to the next level.

Nobody and I mean nobody has said Locker is going to suck in the NFL, but right now today asked for an evaluation of his talents he is not the top QB. He has some of the highest potential no doubt, but he's not there yet.

[DraftBoy]

as much as a I value your insight in regards to the draft... you do come across as very anal and superior to the rest.

Im well aware I do, and Ive never once said I dont have an ego. Part of that comes with the job, part of it is just me. I understand its off putting, but Im not going to not be me.

Also understand the situation as well, I made a comment about this mock draft and then in response had my own credibility put into question. Ive been doing this over a decade now, and started off on sites just like this one and including this one. Ive done more than enough in my years of work to prove my ability to properly diagnose a player's ability. Do I miss on some? Sure I do, but I hit on more than I miss, and that's why Ive been able to move forward from this point to now work with guys you see on ESPN and the NFLN annually come draft time and this year you may just see me or hear me on one of their syndicated broadcasts. So do I take some level of offense to somebody trying to say other "real draft experts" see it this way? Some sure, because I do think that not only am I a "real draft expert", but Im better than most others at it (who doesn't think that about their job though?). Call it ego, call it confidence, call it whatever you like but if you think Im going to take shots from people just because they can take them, Im not going to.

Like I said in the post you quoted Im perfectly happy, hell Id be friggin excited, to break down Locker's game and what I see to anybody who disagrees/agrees and wants to see it. Ive offered that now twice in this thread alone, however Ive also come to understand in the last year that there is no pleasing some people and some people are just going to not like you because of who you are. Which is fine, I dont worry about it. FD and I had plenty of discussions last Feb, Mar, and April as did k-oneputt, Mahdi and myself. We disagreed plenty with each other and in the end Id like to say we all parted ways with a mutual level of respect and understanding. I dont think any of those guys are stupid or just plain wrong, its a simple disagreement. I just dont like it when people choose to resort to taking shots as opposed to defending their opinion.

[ddaryl]

Im well aware I do, and Ive never once said I dont have an ego. Part of that comes with the job, part of it is just me. I understand its off putting, but Im not going to not be me.



but we all need to evaluate ourselves and make changes throughout our lives based upon experiences, and suggestions.

There is a way to get your point across and yet not come across so brazen.

Yes you can break down film, but would you gleefully push what you found into people faces and ignore the counter arguments. Or could you post your beliefs in a fahsion that draws in the reader and wins them over to your views. It's a tricky task but one that seperates those that have greatr success to those who have moderate or little success IMO.


There is a balance, and although being on a message board can easily push us all to be intollerant... a guy like you who has aspirations to be pro scout, or draft guru could greatly improve your popularity with some strategic answers to the doubters crowd IMO...

remember you attract more bees with honey then vineagar...


all this being said.. I still look forward to your draft insights

[DraftBoy]

but we all need to evaluate ourselves and make changes throughout our lives based upon experiences, and suggestions.

There is a way to get your point across and yet not come across so brazen.

Yes you can break down film, but would you gleefully push what you found into people faces and ignore the counter arguments. Or could you post your beliefs in a fahsion that draws in the reader and wins them over to your views. It's a tricky task but one that seperates those that have greatr success to those who have moderate or little success IMO.


There is a balance, and although being on a message board can easily push us all to be intollerant... a guy like you who has aspirations to be pro scout, or draft guru could greatly improve your popularity with some strategic answers to the doubters crowd IMO...

remember you attract more bees with honey then vineagar...


all this being said.. I still look forward to your draft insights

We are getting off topic so let me sum it all up with this. I have made changes but they are changes that are who I am today. This business is not about always playing nice and its certainly not about being the most popular either. I think there is a disconnect there about that. Its not that I want to be disliked or anything like that, however over the years Ive learned you get a lot more respect for being confident and assertive about your opinion than sitting back and saying "Ok, I see your point" when I really don't. Yes it is absolultely part cut throat, part *******, I dont deny that one bit. But Im doing what I think is best to get ahead and so far its working and Ive never been happier.

I know everyday that I write Im going to piss somebody off, Im going to make a new enemy, Im going to get a new piece of hate mail (I had 20 this morning alone), I get these things every day, I have been for the past year. Its part of my job and I respond to each and everyone person who writes me. Usually its a form letter of Im sorry you feel that way but this is the way I see it, sometimes dpending on the tone or direction of the letter Ill give a more informed detailed response. These are the realities of what I and hundreds of others deal with daily who work in this business. X-Era deals with it as well, Im not sure on what scale but I know he's dealt with harsh criticism before (some of it has come from me, as we disagree plenty) but he's still a hell of a draftnik and he has my respect for that.

In the end my job is not to be popular, hell actually its better for the site if Im not popular at all. People who like you don't visit multiple times, leave feedback or link to your site very often. Popularity is very much secondary to being right and accurate, and marketing that opinion (mine and the sites) out to as many as I can via this site, the countless other sites I visit far less frequently, my twitter account and even my personal facebook account.

The best advice I ever got in scouting was from a scout for a pro teamwhen I went down to Athens for UGA's Pro Day last year. I asked about how he deals with constant criticism from fans, his co-workers and media guys like Kiper, and McShay. His response was simple "****'em, each and every one of them. Their opinion is always secondary to my own and the day that it ever becomes primary is the day I quit scouting, because I can't do my own job anymore". He said its a brutal reality to accept and an even harder one to practice (who wants to spend the majority of their work days saying "No, Im sorry but you're wrong") but he said its what you have to do, and I think he was 100% right in saying that.

Just my 2 cents on the issue, hopefully that can clear it up.


By the way 14 days till kickoff!

[X-Era]

I wont speak for DB. I will only speak for me. I feel like you are coming to a free board, and getting a hell of a lot of quality opinions on the draft by many people here. How many other boards have previous or current professionals showing up and giving you their insight for free? DB can probably give you the going rate that a professional scouting service would charge an NFL team for a write up on a player. I think theres lots of value in what many here say and that its significantly above the value of your average football fan. Thats just me.

And to agree with DB further (cant believe Im doing that :up:), I think you do have to stick to your guns when you get a feel about someone. Sometimes its right, sometimes its wrong. But, if your looking for THE oracle who has a 0% mistake rate, you wont find it. Not here, not in the NFL, nowhere. Its all a crapshoot. The best you can do is mitigate the risk of being wrong by investing loads of time and effort, and having a ton of knowledge on football. I wish I was better on both counts. But, I do it for the fun of it, an I realize Im not an "expert".

[k-oneputt]

Washington put up plenty of points last season, and like I said they had a 1,000 yard WR in Kearse and a 1,000 yard back in Polk. Scoring shouldn't be an issue and its not indicative of anything either as far as translation to the next level.

Nobody and I mean nobody has said Locker is going to suck in the NFL, but right now today asked for an evaluation of his talents he is not the top QB. He has some of the highest potential no doubt, but he's not there yet.

As of today I would take him over any qb on our roster. I would also start him from day one and let him learn as he goes.
We should hope we are lucky enough to get any qb of his caliber.
Can't win w/out a qb.

[DraftBoy]

As of today I would take him over any qb on our roster. I would also start him from day one and let him learn as he goes.
We should hope we are lucky enough to get any qb of his caliber.
Can't win w/out a qb.

Well that's not really a fair argument, Id take Rex Grossman right now over any of our QB's.

[methos4ever]

Walterfootball has their 2011 mock out. Has us picking second in the draft and picking up Jake Locker and OT DeMarcus Love.

:mehmeh: Discuss.
They updated it prior to our game, with us picking number one and taking Locker and Miss St OT Derek Sherrod.


I think re: the scout chat that we all are coming from different areas and just because a guy works in the NFL / TV / Whatever, that doesn't invalidate the opinion of an author here. And conversely, just because someone has expertise doesn't mean that a "gut" feeling cannot enter an argument.

I think, for the future of the NFL and College football there has to be room for scouts and scouting that is outside of the norm. Maybe akin to Beane?

[FlyingDutchman]

Here you go DB...i have mixed opinions on kiper, but go ahead and tell me Locker is not a top QB prospect...riiiiiight

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/news/story?id=5495837&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft2011%2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d5495837

[X-Era]

At this point, Id say these players can be semi-adequately ranked only to a range of 2 or 3 rounds. What do I mean? I would say Locker could go anywhere from the 1st round to the 3rd based on what he does this year. Yes, IMO, it can change that much between now and April. Sure, you will have a few players that are "locks" as 1st rounders, but even then things can change and they can drop.

IMO, Locker is not proven or polished enough to be labeled the best QB prospect at this point. I have him ranked 2nd in my rankings, and he could move up to #1 or move down even as far as #5 or 6 even. Should Locker be in the discussion as one of the top 3-5 QB's in the upcoming draft? To me, yes. But, I think its just to early to pin it down.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=193748

[FlyingDutchman]

At this point, Id say these players can be semi-adequately ranked only to a range of 2 or 3 rounds. What do I mean? I would say Locker could go anywhere from the 1st round to the 3rd based on what he does this year. Yes, IMO, it can change that much between now and April. Sure, you will have a few players that are "locks" as 1st rounders, but even then things can change and they can drop.

IMO, Locker is not proven or polished enough to be labeled the best QB prospect at this point. I have him ranked 2nd in my rankings, and he could move up to #1 or move down even as far as #5 or 6 even. Should Locker be in the discussion as one of the top 3-5 QB's in the upcoming draft? To me, yes. But, I think its just to early to pin it down.

absolutely. i think hes the top QB prospect but different opinions will have him at different spots. i had to laugh though when DB said at this point Locker is NOT considered a top prospect and here we see some draft experts have him number 1 overall. I agree its impossible to pin it down right now, but we can good a good idea.

[X-Era]

I agree its impossible to pin it down right now, but we can good a good idea.

I think you can get a rough idea. Does Locker have the talent to be a blue chip #1 QB draftee? sure. Will he settle enough NFL minds to be drafted that high? remains to be seen. And, I think he still has a lot to show. Footwork, accuracy, decision making, and pocket presence to name a few areas.

I see the argument that many make on Luck and Ponder, they have the type of decision making and poise that teams look for. Bradford was like that. Both have their own areas to develop. And, both probably have things to prove to NFL teams still.

No one has to make the final determination yet, that's why I'd rather give a range and let that become honed into a single round or area in a round.

[DraftBoy]

Here you go DB...i have mixed opinions on kiper, but go ahead and tell me Locker is not a top QB prospect...riiiiiight

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/news/story?id=5495837&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft2011%2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d5495837


Offering Kiper's opinion does not substantiate the statement that Locker is the #1 prospect, especially considering how highly he thought of Claussen just last year and look what happened to him. Im not going to bash Kiper because he gets more right than he gets wrong but offering his opinion right now considering how bad he looked just a few months ago in regards to QB, doesn't do a lot for me.

Even his comment itself says that same thing Ive said about Locker. His high rating is based on assumption that his potential will kick in, not based on actual ability today.


Analysis: Has all the physical tools -- size, arm, even speed and improving footwork. His accuracy should improve as he gets comfortable in the offense.

Ill maintain he's not the top QB in this class until its proven by his game play that he has gotten better. Preseason hype and other expert opinion won't sway that.

[FlyingDutchman]

whatever you say DB...whatever you say