Dilemma time

[northernbillfan]

Festival season is wrapping up here in Edmonton, and one of major festivals, is the second largest, of it's type, in the world. That's the Edmonton Fringe Festival, second only to Scotland.

Anyway, it's a great arts and theatre festival, whcih has our arts district buzzing with people and vendors. One of those vendors is a store right in the heart of the district. They sell very cool art shirts, in fact, I was considering getting one myself, for about $50 a piece. Last night at the Fringe, we (my wife and kids) were walking around and saw that the store was closed. However, they left six of these cool shirts hanging on their outdoor display.

What would you do?

[RockStar36]

Festival season is wrapping up here in Edmonton, and one of major festivals, is the second largest, of it's type, in the world. That's the Edmonton Fringe Festival, second only to Scotland.

Anyway, it's a great arts and theatre festival, whcih has our arts district buzzing with people and vendors. One of those vendors is a store right in the heart of the district. They sell very cool art shirts, in fact, I was considering getting one myself, for about $50 a piece. Last night at the Fringe, we (my wife and kids) were walking around and saw that the store was closed. However, they left six of these cool shirts hanging on their outdoor display.

What would you do?

If they are closed and left shirts hanging outside, take them. Tough **** for them.

[hydro]

Is this a part of town where they are just begging it to be stolen (lots of crime) or is it a nice area where you would be ruining the persona that leaving something like that out wouldn't be something to worry about.

[DraftBoy]

I never understood the idea of clothing stores having stuff outside for sale, are you just begging to get **** stolen?

[RockStar36]

I never understood the idea of clothing stores having stuff outside for sale, are you just begging to get **** stolen?

Same with pumpkins during Halloween. I've never understood it.

[northernbillfan]

Is this a part of town where they are just begging it to be stolen (lots of crime) or is it a nice area where you would be ruining the persona that leaving something like that out wouldn't be something to worry about.It's the bar/arts district. Lots of funky shops and an eclectic mix of people during the day. Lots of bars and university kids at night. It's also where the Stanley Cup riots happened a few years back during the Oilers run.

[hydro]

It's the bar/arts district. Lots of funky shops and an eclectic mix of people during the day. Lots of bars and university kids at night. It's also where the Stanley Cup riots happened a few years back during the Oilers run.

So basically they are just asking for it to get stolen. If it was something I liked I would be tempted but in the end would chicken out and not do it.

[Forward_Lateral]

Honestly, I would've checked if there was an emergency number on the door, and called it to tell them, if not, I would've probably just kept walking.

[SABURZFAN]

i liked nbf better when he was drinking. :chug:

[Discotrish]

Festival season is wrapping up here in Edmonton, and one of major festivals, is the second largest, of it's type, in the world. That's the Edmonton Fringe Festival, second only to Scotland.

Anyway, it's a great arts and theatre festival, whcih has our arts district buzzing with people and vendors. One of those vendors is a store right in the heart of the district. They sell very cool art shirts, in fact, I was considering getting one myself, for about $50 a piece. Last night at the Fringe, we (my wife and kids) were walking around and saw that the store was closed. However, they left six of these cool shirts hanging on their outdoor display.

What would you do?

I would not admit this is a dilemma.

Patti

[OpIv37]

I'd be tempted to take one just to teach them a lesson, but in the end I'd get paranoid and chicken out. NO ONE would be dumb enough just to leave these here for the taking, right? They MUST be watching from somewhere.

[northernbillfan]

I would not admit this is a dilemma.

PattiThis is definitely a moral dilemma. The ability to receive something without immediate reprecussions, yet can play on your guilt, is a moral dilemma.

[The last buffalo fan]

You could get $25 for each one of those T's from me, just saying.

Seriously, I would drop my phone number under the front door and bring the T's with me so they can ask for them.

[madness]

Find the nearest food vendor.

[TMu11]

I'd just keep walking.

Unless you really wanted them. In that case, F*** em.

[mercyrule]

This is definitely a moral dilemma. The ability to receive something without immediate reprecussions, yet can play on your guilt, is a moral dilemma.Seriously?

[RockStar36]

The only dilemma here is whether or not to steal the shirts.

But by the time you've sat here and debated it, someone else probably already has.

[northernbillfan]

Here's what we did:

We took the shirts and placed them in our car. Today I called the place about the shirts and the owner was ecstatic that someone was honest enough to look after the shirts. I told him where he could pick them up and he is on his way now to get the shirts.

[RockStar36]

This reminds me of a few weeks ago when I was walking down the street and found a small package that a mailman dropped on the sidewalk. It belonged to a house about 3 blocks in the other direction. I picked it up and continued my walk to the gas station. While walking up, there was a mail truck there, so I handed the package to the mailman and explained. He thanked me graciously and I promptly bought a powerball ticket with this new found karma.

I didn't win.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is definitely a moral dilemma. The ability to receive something without immediate reprecussions, yet can play on your guilt, is a moral dilemma.


So the question of stealing is a moral dilemma?

I don't get it.

[SabreEleven]

You are no Earl Hickey

[wmoz11]

So the question of stealing is a moral dilemma?

I don't get it.

Sure. If he stole the shirts, he'd have saved money that he can better spend on his family for other resources while being able to cloth them at the same time.


Not that I believe that's a valid point, but you could argue it.

[OpIv37]

I think the point is that many people don't steal because they are afraid of getting caught, as much, if not moreso, than the moral question about stealing in general.

Well if you remove the possibility of getting caught and make it a strictly moral question, then what? Some people may react differently.

[justasportsfan]

I hope you get a free shirt for what you did

[RockStar36]

I think the point is that many people don't steal because they are afraid of getting caught, as much, if not moreso, than the moral question about stealing in general.

Well if you remove the possibility of getting caught and make it a strictly moral question, then what? Some people may react differently.

If a store was having a sidewalk sale and I knew there was no chance of getting caught, I'd take everything I could. There is no moral dilemma with me. I'm just afraid of getting caught.

[mercyrule]

I think the point is that many people don't steal because they are afraid of getting caught, as much, if not moreso, than the moral question about stealing in general.

Well if you remove the possibility of getting caught and make it a strictly moral question, then what? Some people may react differently.Whether or not people should steal isn't a moral "question."

[northernbillfan]

He just left my work and handed me a $50 gift certificate.

[mercyrule]

He just left my work and handed me a $50 gift certificate.You mean he left your place of employment? Nice.

[northernbillfan]

You mean he left your place of employment? Nice.He came to my work location to get the shirts from me. I'm only a 10-15 minute drive away from his store. Because of other plans, I wouldn't have been able to deliver the shirts to him before Saturday.

[RockStar36]

Could you buy that many shirts with $50 or would you have been better off keeping the shirts?

[wmoz11]

Whether or not people should steal isn't a moral "question."

So it's never morally permissable to steal? I think there are great arguments that refute that statement.

[justasportsfan]

your good deed got you a $50 shirt. Nice.

[chernobylwraiths]

Take all the shirts and return to the store the next day and tell them that they left them outside the night before.

[mercyrule]

So it's never morally permissable to steal? I think there are great arguments that refute that statement.Yes, but they don't just center on whether you do it or not. See, Jean Valjean paid a huge price for stealing bread for his starving family. See, that kind of situation is a dilemma. Stealing something just because the opportunity arises isn't morally permissible. There's no question about that.

[wmoz11]

Yes, but they don't just center on whether you do it or not. See, Jean Valjean paid a huge price for stealing bread for his starving family. See, that kind of situation is a dilemma. Stealing something just because the opportunity arises isn't morally permissible. There's no question about that.

Oh, most definitely. This particular case wouldn't qualify as a moral dilemma (though it could be argued if you wanted to be difficult), but I thought you meant that stealing in general is never a moral dilemma.

[mercyrule]

See, if someone asks you if you'll do something - pretty much universally accepted as immoral - if you won't get caught, that's not a dilemma. That's simply a question about your character.

[The last buffalo fan]

Here's what we did:

We took the shirts and placed them in our car. Today I called the place about the shirts and the owner was ecstatic that someone was honest enough to look after the shirts. I told him where he could pick them up and he is on his way now to get the shirts.

Pussy is pussy, there or even here in Mexico! :bf1:

[northernbillfan]

See, if someone asks you if you'll do something - pretty much universally accepted as immoral - if you won't get caught, that's not a dilemma. That's simply a question about your character.The "dilemma" I presented today was a "What would you do?" situation. Therefore it is, by definition, a deilemma. Whether it's an ethical dilemma or not, is moot.

[northernbillfan]

Could you buy that many shirts with $50 or would you have been better off keeping the shirts?One shirt is worth $50. That store has many cool items I would like to have, but never felt the need to fork over the cash.

[The last buffalo fan]

I hope you get a free shirt for what you did

And your kids admiration for sure!

[mercyrule]

The "dilemma" I presented today was a "What would you do?" situation. Therefore it is, by definition, a deilemma. Whether it's an ethical dilemma or not, is moot.Well, then we have different definitions of the word "dilemma."

But I think what Patti was getting at is that whether or not you steal something - that should never be in doubt. If you have to think about it . . . .

[mercyrule]

A dilemma implies that you have a difficult choice to make.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is definitely a moral dilemma. The ability to receive something without immediate reprecussions, yet can play on your guilt, is a moral dilemma.



The "dilemma" I presented today was a "What would you do?" situation. Therefore it is, by definition, a deilemma. Whether it's an ethical dilemma or not, is moot.


But it is not a moral dilemma

[mercyrule]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dilemma

[mercyrule]

But it is not a moral dilemmaIt shouldn't be a dilemma at all.

[Dr. Lecter]

It shouldn't be a dilemma at all.


It could fall into this defintion:

a situation involving such a choice

[mercyrule]

It could fall into this defintion:

a situation involving such a choiceThis situation didn't involve such a choice

[mercyrule]

For it to be a dilemma, you have to be presented with two equally negative options.

A dilemma:
1) steal
or
2) your family starves

Not a dilemma:
1) steal
or
2) don't steal

[northernbillfan]

But it is not a moral dilemmaTrue. I realized that I should not have used the word moral when first describing the situation. It really is an ethical choice.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

and one of major festivals, is the second largest,

Do you mean one of the major festivals?

[northernbillfan]

Do you mean one of the major festivals?You got me.

[northernbillfan]

Do you mean one of the major festivals?ANd I should not have had the comma or dropped the word is from the second part of that sentence.

[mercyrule]

True. I realized that I should not have used the word moral when first describing the situation. It really is an ethical choice.Doesn't matter if it's more, ethical, or personal. It's not a dilemma

[mercyrule]

A dilemma implies that you have a difficult choice to make.Between two bad options.

[mercyrule]

Oh, what's the use . . .

[mercyrule]

And I think you need to look up the word "ethical."