So Who's Convinced?

[Mahdi]

Just wanna know who is now convinced that Edwards should be the starter.... Personally, I didn't see anything new from Trent, a few dump-offs, the hesitation that got him smacked in the head, and a deep throw to a wide open Lee Evans. I was more impressed with the play design than the throw actually.

My point is if we are comparing what Edwards did over 2 games with what Brohm did in yesterday's game, Brohm is wayyy superior.

Brohm threw darts yesterday, he threw a variety of different throws and was accurate. More than anything though, he goes through his progressions fast and the ball is released fast and with velocity. The guy just looks like a QB back there. He used all his receivers and that throw to Jackson to his outside shoulder was NFL caliber.

If Brohm doesn't start it's a shame and if he gets cut it's an outrage.

[mikemac2001]

though i feel brohm should start

i think edwards has shown enough with a starting oline (even though its againist a 4-3 sucked vs 3-4)

to stay as the starter if he bombs in 3rd preseason game and brohm lights it up idk what the team can do

can't split the team up but brohm keeps throwing the ball like he is he should get a shot.

[better days]

I am repeating myself, but nobody else has brought up the fact that Indy plays the cover 2 not the 3-4 defense that Trent has struggled with in the past.

I would like to see both Trent & Brohm against a 3-4 defense, does Cinci play 3-4? I think they do but am not sure.

[Mahdi]

though i feel brohm should start

i think edwards has shown enough with a starting oline (even though its againist a 4-3 sucked vs 3-4)

to stay as the starter if he bombs in 3rd preseason game and brohm lights it up idk what the team can do

can't split the team up but brohm keeps throwing the ball like he is he should get a shot.
Thing is, I knew this would happen and I said so before the game. Trent will go into the game against a vanilla Colts 4-3 and make things happen. They aren't really game planning. Now he keeps a job that I believe he lost a long time ago.

Washington was a 3-4 and they exposed him. The Colts have created another mirage.

[Night Train]

Edwards is brittle and that means Brohm will be starting soon regardless.

[Mahdi]

I am repeating myself, but nobody else has brought up the fact that Indy plays the cover 2 not the 3-4 defense that Trent has struggled with in the past.

I would like to see both Trent & Brohm against a 3-4 defense, does Cinci play 3-4? I think they do but am not sure.
Cinci is base 4-3. But a very aggressive 4-3.

[mikemac2001]

Thing is, I knew this would happen and I said so before the game. Trent will go into the game against a vanilla Colts 4-3 and make things happen. They aren't really game planning. Now he keeps a job that I believe he lost a long time ago.

Washington was a 3-4 and they exposed him. The Colts have created another mirage.


and thats the tough spot

i agree but how do you bench him after it

you cant blame trent for the D the colts are running....i would love to see another 3-4 team but it won't be until week one and i will be there watching trent struggle live. (i hope not)

[mayotm]

Just wanna know who is now convinced that Edwards should be the starter.... Personally, I didn't see anything new from Trent, a few dump-offs, the hesitation that got him smacked in the head, and a deep throw to a wide open Lee Evans. I was more impressed with the play design than the throw actually.

My point is if we are comparing what Edwards did over 2 games with what Brohm did in yesterday's game, Brohm is wayyy superior.

Brohm threw darts yesterday, he threw a variety of different throws and was accurate. More than anything though, he goes through his progressions fast and the ball is released fast and with velocity. The guy just looks like a QB back there. He used all his receivers and that throw to Jackson to his outside shoulder was NFL caliber.

If Brohm doesn't start it's a shame and if he gets cut it's an outrage.Prepare yourself to be disappointed becaue Brohm isn't going to start. I do think he will make the team over Fitz. I liked a lot of what I saw from Brohm last night. He was poised and decisive. I also liked that he wasn't afraid to throw into coverage and give the WR a chance to make a play. That all stated, Edwards showed some things as well. Evans was wide open on the TD, but it took a perfect throw for the score. If he doesn't hit Evans in stride it's a long completion versrus a TD. I actually like the throw he me made down the sideline which Johnson dropped even better. Thus, Edwards will be the starter, but Brohm will likely get some playing time based on the fact that Edwards can't stay healthy.

[Mahdi]

Prepare yourself to be disappointed becaue Brohm isn't going to start. I do think he will make the team over Fitz. I liked a lot of what I saw from Brohm last night. He was poised and decisive. I also liked that he wasn't afraid to throw into coverage and give the WR a chance to make a play. That all stated, Edwards showed some things as well. Evans was wide open on the TD, but it took a perfect throw for the score. If he doesn't hit Evans in stride it's a long completion versrus a TD. I actually like the throw he me made down the sideline which Johnson dropped even better. Thus, Edwards will be the starter, but Brohm will likely get some playing time based on the fact that Edwards can't stay healthy.
I agree that Trent made a nice long throw. But Trent will never convince me until he can hit what is between 7 yards and 40.

[mayotm]

I agree that Trent made a nice long throw. But Trent will never convince me until he can hit what is between 7 yards and 40.I'm not convinced that Edwards can be a viable starter in the league. I'm just stating that he will be the starter week 1. That's just the way it is.

[Mahdi]

I'm not convinced that Edwards can be a viable starter in the league. I'm just stating that he will be the starter week 1. That's just the way it is.
yep.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I'm not going to agree that Brohm throwing darts out there. His passes are all with arcs, more touch passes then darts. I remember he said himself that his strength is touch passes.

It's evident that Trent has the better arm than Brohm. But Trent does not have the arm as strong as Rob Johnson, Bledsoe, Losman we had in the past.

[trapezeus]

edwards needs to lose the job to someone, not just play poorly and have another guy play.

i agree, this is all a moot point because he's done well against 4-3 defenses so far.

If edwards plays exactly the same during the season against a variety of defeneses, i'm fine with him. I don't need to see bomb after bomb. i need to see sustained drives.

and like everyone said, edwards will not start 16 games this season. it's as constant as death and taxes.

[DesertFox24]

Well we will find out week 1 what Edwards can do against a 34 in a regular season game because I think he would have to tank the rest of the preseason to not have the job.

I know why everyone is down on the guy, but why can't you guys just relax and see what he can do with Chan as his coach before we label the guy a major bust. It took Brees time and other QBs time to hit their stride maybe he falls in that category, maybe he does not but lets relax a bit.

[Mahdi]

I'm not going to agree that Brohm throwing darts out there. His passes are all with arcs, more touch passes then darts. I remember he said himself that his strength is touch passes.

It's evident that Trent has the better arm than Brohm. But Trent does not have the arm as strong as Rob Johnson, Bledsoe, Losman we had in the past.
I think you should watch the game again. Those passes were thrown in there strong. I wouldn't say they were fired in there, but they were solidly thrown.

And Brohm has a much better arm than Edwards, it's not even close. You'll see when Brohm is firing the deep slants and crossing routes that Trent has never done.

[Beebe's Kid]

I am not sure what Edwards showed. If he doesn't hit Evans on that pass, he should have been cut on the spot. He didn't make any great decisions...I didn't seem him go through any progressions, just the same of stare down your guy, and try to stay alive. I hope he bought CJ and McGee dinner last night.

I am a Brohm fan, but was more than willing to admit he was cooked if he looked bad last night. All he did was lead a few long drives, make some good reads, go through progressions, and throw darts. It would have sealed the deal had he hit a few long balls or threw for a few TDs.

One quick question: What do you call those passes where the receiver cuts in towards the middle of the field, and you have your QB make a quick throw to them? Whatever those are, I like them, and wouldn't mind seeing more of those. I was also thinking one where the receiver cut in towards midfield after he ran down the sideline a little bit.

Don't get me wrong, Jauron/AVP's idea of having Evans and TO streak down the sideline in a single back, 2 TE set every play was a great idea, but I think having WR's closer to the play is a good idea. Chan might be on to something.

[ChristopherWalken]

Last night did noting for me in the way of once again becoming a Trent Edwards fan.

As in the past, Trent has shown some serious signs of "getting IT" and the game slows down for him on occassions.

However, for every 1 qrtr of good play he puts together, he assembles 3 qrtrs of horrific game play.

Hard to judge in preseason. Could this be Trents year to finally "get IT"? Sure - but chances are unlikley.

In the same breath, I was not really impressed with Brohm either.

Showed some flashes - but equally showed some ineffeciencies against 2nd and 3rd string squads.

However, Brohm gets the benefit of the doubt as he has not the same amount of game time as Edwards.

[The King]

Im convinced that he's better than Brohm. Especially since its widely known that Brohm is competing with Fitz for the number 2 spot.

[psubills62]

Edwards was a bit frustrating with his inconsistency. If he hadn't thrown that bomb to Lee, imo Brohm would be a lot closer to the starting job. However, I'm not sure you can say it was a vanilla Colts D...they sent a decent number of blitzes.

Brohm showed a lot between the 20's. I loved seeing the slants and throws to open receivers who were sitting in the holes in the zone. However, I wish some of his drives hadn't stalled the way they did and that he could have put the ball in the end zone in his first drive. That may come with time, though.

I definitely want to see more of Brohm.

EDIT: I'd also like to see a 15-20 yard pass from one of them in the middle of the field. Where are the post routes? Hopefully they're saving those for the regular season, because I'd like to see someone throw them.

[mikemac2001]

Well we will find out week 1 what Edwards can do against a 34 in a regular season game because I think he would have to tank the rest of the preseason to not have the job.

I know why everyone is down on the guy, but why can't you guys just relax and see what he can do with Chan as his coach before we label the guy a major bust. It took Brees time and other QBs time to hit their stride maybe he falls in that category, maybe he does not but lets relax a bit.

As much as I want brohm in there

Edwards is starter week one and I'm hoping everything clicks. I'm hoping a real coach can salvage his career and we might finally have a qb

Problem is he will get hurt and can he read 3-4 d

Edwards
Brohm
Brown

Edwards team to lose
Brohm will get his chance (take advantage)
Brown needs a year or so to even have a chance

Go bills can't wait for week one

[homeslice5484]

Brohm should be the #2 RIGHT NOW no question, then see what happens. If it is truly open Brohm should get some #1 reps and see...if he is not the #2 then this really wasnt a competition at all. If Edwards starts, I doubt he finishes.

[better days]

Well we will find out week 1 what Edwards can do against a 34 in a regular season game because I think he would have to tank the rest of the preseason to not have the job.

I know why everyone is down on the guy, but why can't you guys just relax and see what he can do with Chan as his coach before we label the guy a major bust. It took Brees time and other QBs time to hit their stride maybe he falls in that category, maybe he does not but lets relax a bit.

If Trent plays well the next 2 preseason games he is the starter no doubt. Maybe Chan can coach him up (fingers crossed). I think Brohm will prove he deserves to be #2 in the next 2 games.

[Beebe's Kid]

I'm not going to agree that Brohm throwing darts out there. His passes are all with arcs, more touch passes then darts. I remember he said himself that his strength is touch passes.

It's evident that Trent has the better arm than Brohm. But Trent does not have the arm as strong as Rob Johnson, Bledsoe, Losman we had in the past.

This is why you have to keep checking into the Zone! If you just watched the game and listened to the announcers, or listened to Chan, you wouldn't know this kind of thing.

Even worse is I almost was going to go off of what I watched with my own eyes. I guess when I think back to Trent zipping all of those slants and stop routes in there, you are probably right. The only issue is Brohm completed about 5 kinds of passes I have never seen Trent make, because he doesn't possess the ability to make a decision that quick.

We should stick with him though, he has great hair.

[Mahdi]

Im convinced that he's better than Brohm. Especially since its widely known that Brohm is competing with Fitz for the number 2 spot.
And what is it that convinces you that Edwards is BETTER than Brohm? I can understand being convinced that Edwards should start but I don't understand the BETTER claim.

[Saratoga Slim]

I admittedly didn't watch the game, but after a lot of reading this morning, I'd say that Trent's night was encouraging in some respects, but he's still doing the same general thing - lots of dump offs and the occasional bomb.

To have confidence in Trent as a complete passer, I really want to see more of those mid-range, 12-20 yard tosses. Down the middle, deep outs, that kind of thing. He does it so infrequently that I almost can't even picture him throwing those types of balls.

[Mahdi]

I admittedly didn't watch the game, but after a lot of reading this morning, I'd say that Trent's night was encouraging in some respects, but he's still doing the same general thing - lots of dump offs and the occasional bomb.

To have confidence in Trent as a complete passer, I really want to see more of those mid-range, 12-20 yard tosses. Down the middle, deep outs, that kind of thing. He does it so infrequently that I almost can't even picture him throwing those types of balls.
EXACTLY!!!

My whole issue with Trent is not that I can't be patient with his development or that I don't think Gailey can get the best out of him, it's that he lacks the skills to make the mid range throws that make an NFL QB an NFL QB.

Deep out, Deep slant, deep crossing route and skinny post. We haven't seen that from Trent since he came to Buffalo, that is an astonishing fact for any QB.

[better days]

EXACTLY!!!

My whole issue with Trent is not that I can't be patient with his development or that I don't think Gailey can get the best out of him, it's that he lacks the skills to make the mid range throws that make an NFL QB an NFL QB.

Deep out, Deep slant, deep crossing route and skinny post. We haven't seen that from Trent since he came to Buffalo, that is an astonishing fact for any QB.

Trent needs to show what he has NOW, the time for patience is over. He is in the last year of his contract.

[stuckincincy]

Cinci is base 4-3. But a very aggressive 4-3.

Their DC Zimmer has called a fair number of 3-4 sets in their 1st 2 pre-season games. They are trying to work '09 #3 DE Michael Johnson in as an OLB, as well as getting Rey Maualuga some time at MLB.

CIN is used to playing against a 3-4, what with their division rivals.

BUF will see a lot of 3-4 this season. Something like 12 or more of their contests are against clubs that use it as their base D.

[Philagape]

EXACTLY!!!

My whole issue with Trent is not that I can't be patient with his development or that I don't think Gailey can get the best out of him, it's that he lacks the skills to make the mid range throws that make an NFL QB an NFL QB.

Deep out, Deep slant, deep crossing route and skinny post. We haven't seen that from Trent since he came to Buffalo, that is an astonishing fact for any QB.

And how many of those did Brohm complete, or even try?

And we've been over this silly talk before about Trent "never" making the intermediates. That's just plain wrong.

[Mahdi]

And how many of those did Brohm complete, or even try?

And we've been over this silly talk before about Trent "never" making the intermediates. That's just plain wrong.
No it isn't, it is right. And again, show me highlights of these alleged throws he makes into intermediate areas...

I'm sorry but it is a fact, it's not up for debate, there is no grey area, Trent does not/has not thrown deep crossing routes and post routes or even 20 yard out routes. He simply has not completed or even attempted them.

I watch every Bills game and never seen it so you're not going to convince me without video evidence that Trent has made them.

And the sad part is you might go and find 1 or 2 throws and base your opinion on that. Over all the games Trent has played you are probably still thinking back to the Washington game with the pass to Reed. So 1 or 2 throws over 3 seasons.

You can't sit there and honestly tell me that Trent fires passes into his receivers down the seems of the field. It simply hasn't happened.

[BertSquirtgum]

for the dum-dum's that want fitzpatrick as a #2. after the bills cut him, they can re-sign him when trent gets hurt and you'll have your lovely #2. will that make you guys happy?

[justasportsfan]

Trent can and has made intermediate throws. It's just that you don't know whats going to happen until the ball gets there.

With Brohm I felt like something good was going to happen if he got to throw the ball.

It's still early. I'm just glad that so far it looks like someone is stepping up and pushing Trent. Even if Trent improved (hoping last night wasn't a fluke) , it's good to know that Brohm has improved so much that he's pushing an improved Trent.

[madness]

Brohm is still not ready.

[Mahdi]

Trent can and has made intermediate throws. It's just that you don't know whats going to happen until the ball gets there.

With Brohm I felt like something good was going to happen if he got to throw the ball.

It's still early. I'm just glad that so far it looks like someone is stepping up and pushing Trent. Even if Trent improved (hoping last night wasn't a fluke) , it's good to know that Brohm has improved so much that he's pushing an improved Trent.
really? how many times? and what are you considering intermediate?

Im talking about specific NFL throws... not just any throw that results in a 10 yard gain or more.

Trent has not thrown (or extremely rarely) a post, deep cross, skinny post, or deep out (15 or 20 yards out)... he has attempted them very few times and he failed.

[justasportsfan]

really? how many times? and what are you considering intermediate?

Im talking about specific NFL throws... not just any throw that results in a 10 yard gain or more.

Trent has not thrown (or extremely rarely) a post, deep cross, skinny post, or deep out (15 or 20 yards out)... he has attempted them very few times and he failed.

Have you seen anyone do that consistently under Dicks offense?

[Mahdi]

Have you seen anyone do that consistently under Dicks offense?
There is no offense in the NFL that does not contain those routes. T.O was running those routes all day (and he might just be the best all time at those routes), and as he said he was just running them for nothing.

[justasportsfan]

There is no offense in the NFL that does not contain those routes. T.O was running those routes all day (and he might just be the best all time at those routes), and as he said he was just running them for nothing.
I see several NFL throws here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZk9bINoPG4&feature=fvw


I never denied he doesn't throw them conistently but that he can when he has the confidence to do so.

A lot of TO's route running was based on Dick conservative approach. Everyone knew what was coming. Once Dick was fired, the playcalling was opened up.

Hopefully Chan can makes things easier through making the right placalls for Trent. Something Dick had no clue about.

I am however not sold on Trent . Need to see more.

[ddaryl]

I'm no where's near convinced about Edwards.... There should still be a competition for the starting position.

[better days]

I see several NFL throws here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZk9bINoPG4&feature=fvw


I never denied he doesn't throw them conistently but that he can when he has the confidence to do so.

A lot of TO's route running was based on Dick conservative approach. Everyone knew what was coming. Once Dick was fired, the playcalling was opened up.

Hopefully Chan can makes things easier through making the right placalls for Trent. Something Dick had no clue about.

I am however not sold on Trent . Need to see more.

I think Trent has the arm to make the throws, he just has not attempted to do so in the past. It may have been because of Dick, who knows?

This last game Trent looked good, now can he keep it up?

[JCBills]

I'm not going to agree that Brohm throwing darts out there. His passes are all with arcs, more touch passes then darts. I remember he said himself that his strength is touch passes.

It's evident that Trent has the better arm than Brohm. But Trent does not have the arm as strong as Rob Johnson, Bledsoe, Losman we had in the past.

Brohm's ball speed was clocked at 57 mph at the combine, second fastest to Flacco that year. He showed nice touch when it's needed, but a few throws got there in a hurry, paired with the quick read.

[mikemac2001]

Trent has thrown the mid routes up the
Middle

But he can't throw out routes
He is two nervous and they always
Seem an int.

I'm hoping chan can fix this but I would rather see brohm giving the shot, if not
Now week 5 when we are 0-4

[JCBills]

Trent has thrown the mid routes up the
Middle

But he can't throw out routes
He is two nervous and they always
Seem an int.

I'm hoping chan can fix this but I would rather see brohm giving the shot, if not
Now week 5 when we are 0-4

If I remember correctly, Brohm hit a very nice out last night, I think to C. Jackson?

[Luisito23]

I'm not convince, sorry.

[Philagape]

No it isn't, it is right. And again, show me highlights of these alleged throws he makes into intermediate areas...

I'm sorry but it is a fact, it's not up for debate, there is no grey area, Trent does not/has not thrown deep crossing routes and post routes or even 20 yard out routes. He simply has not completed or even attempted them.

I watch every Bills game and never seen it so you're not going to convince me without video evidence that Trent has made them.

And the sad part is you might go and find 1 or 2 throws and base your opinion on that. Over all the games Trent has played you are probably still thinking back to the Washington game with the pass to Reed. So 1 or 2 throws over 3 seasons.

You can't sit there and honestly tell me that Trent fires passes into his receivers down the seems of the field. It simply hasn't happened.

Well I'll just look for the site that has every NFL play on video .....

I did show you videos of the most significant plays once, and you dismissed it as just a few. Then I showed you splits proving he's made that range, and I had to explain them to you because you didn't understand them and didn't believe them. (That's why I remember this.) To remind you again, in his career, he's attempted 185 passes with the ball in the air between 11 and 30 yards, and completed 91 of them. In the 21-30-yards range -- ball in the air -- it's 13-for-36. Not a lot, to be sure, but certainly not "never."
I've seen all of his games too. When he first started playing, I specifically remember that's what made him better than Losman, was that he threw the intermediates well, not just checkdowns and bombs. Unfortunately, that's what he's regressed into, but to say he's never done it is a flat-out lie or early Alzheimer's. It is absolutely not true. You are full of it.

[Mahdi]

Well I'll just look for the site that has every NFL play on video .....

I did show you videos of the most significant plays once, and you dismissed it as just a few. Then I showed you splits proving he's made that range, and I had to explain them to you because you didn't understand them and didn't believe them. (That's why I remember this.) To remind you again, in his career, he's attempted 185 passes with the ball in the air between 11 and 30 yards, and completed 91 of them. In the 21-30-yards range -- ball in the air -- it's 13-for-36. Not a lot, to be sure, but certainly not "never."
I've seen all of his games too. When he first started playing, I specifically remember that's what made him better than Losman, was that he threw the intermediates well, not just checkdowns and bombs. Unfortunately, that's what he's regressed into, but to say he's never done it is a flat-out lie or early Alzheimer's. It is absolutely not true. You are full of it.
Ok... you clearly have no idea what real NFL throws look like... are you kidding me with that Youtube video you posted?

He had ONE good throw in that whole thing which was the post route to Robert Royal which he was WIDE open on. You need to watch other QBs and see the throws they make on a regular basis... as in 5-10 of them a game. Wow, that video contained 1 above average throw, the rest were dump offs or simple throws and 1/3 of a Trent Edwards highlight video of course is made up of photos because there really aren't many highlights.

Man, seriously you have no idea what yer talking about, and I'm not going to ask you to show me anymore videos because they simply don't exist. Edwards shy's away from the intermediate areas of the field, period.

He excels in short throws ONLY when the defense allows him to have that, that is what he had on Losman. Losman didn't know what a checkdown was.

Trent is what Trent is, short, short, short and an occasional long and only if it's wide open.

Till today he can't hit the deep outs or the deep ins, and definitely not the post or skinny post. Those throws require a level of velocity and confidence Trent doesn't have.

The other limitation Trent has is his release point. He carries his shoulder to low when he throws and that limits what he can do with the ball.

You wanna see a real release, look at Manning, look at Favre. When they throw passes into tight areas their shoulder drives the ball, Trent short arms his throws.

[Michael82]

I'm not convinced yet. It was nice to see him throw a bomb and try hitting Steve Johnson with another long pass...but he did that against a Cover2, 4-3 team and still hasn't showed us he can play against a 3-4 defense which the Redskins have and many of our opponents this year run.

[Billz_fan]

Personally im done with the whole QB thing. I don't find any of our QB's acceptable but thats not gonna change anything.

[Marvelous]

"""So who's convinced Trent should be the Starter?"""
--I am.....
--The strength of our offense is our backfield, & Shouman moshat likely the starter @TE(This a good thing!)Trent likes,love to throw short passes & dumpoff type plays. I dunno if it's because he has the Pennington noodle arm, or he just hasn't formed chemistry w/ Lee Evans or medium -to- deep WR's... Yeah i saw him throw that bomb to wide open Evans, but i base my comments above on the last 2 seasons. He even had a game we're Evans didn't even get 1 pass thrown to him..wtf?----So yeah RB & Shouman are our strengths that fit perfectly w/ Trents prefferences...
---With that in mind i say YES Trent is & should be the starter.. He has better upside then Fitz & Brohm & The Rookie are very raw & far away...
--I'm not a big fan of Trent, nor against Trent. But i do believe our new coaching staff will be a huge improvement to the whole team...Morale is good..And Tasker explained where the heck Roscoe Parrish has been last couple seasons..IMO Trent is very coachable.. We're talking BILL WALSH!!!

[Historian]

And Tasker explained where the heck Roscoe Parrish has been last couple seasons!!

I was waiting for somone to bring this up.

Nice to see our top pick from 2005 finally get thrown to.

:shakeno:

[Philagape]

Ok... you clearly have no idea what real NFL throws look like... are you kidding me with that Youtube video you posted?

He had ONE good throw in that whole thing which was the post route to Robert Royal which he was WIDE open on. You need to watch other QBs and see the throws they make on a regular basis... as in 5-10 of them a game. Wow, that video contained 1 above average throw, the rest were dump offs or simple throws and 1/3 of a Trent Edwards highlight video of course is made up of photos because there really aren't many highlights.

Man, seriously you have no idea what yer talking about, and I'm not going to ask you to show me anymore videos because they simply don't exist. Edwards shy's away from the intermediate areas of the field, period.

He excels in short throws ONLY when the defense allows him to have that, that is what he had on Losman. Losman didn't know what a checkdown was.

Trent is what Trent is, short, short, short and an occasional long and only if it's wide open.

Till today he can't hit the deep outs or the deep ins, and definitely not the post or skinny post. Those throws require a level of velocity and confidence Trent doesn't have.

The other limitation Trent has is his release point. He carries his shoulder to low when he throws and that limits what he can do with the ball.

You wanna see a real release, look at Manning, look at Favre. When they throw passes into tight areas their shoulder drives the ball, Trent short arms his throws.

So tell me, you who remember every route on every pass, what routes were used on the 91 intermediate completions?

[Mahdi]

So tell me, you who remember every route on every pass, what routes were used on the 91 intermediate completions?
I don't remember every route and every pass... but when I watch Trent the only thing I wait for week in and week out is for him to complete one of those routes.

I have seen him attempt them a few times, a couple succeeded the rest failed.

He completed the one to Royal against the Fins, one to Reed against the Skins and one to T.O. against the Pats in garbage time.

He tried a skinny post against the Titans last year in preseason to Lee on the right sideline, it got picked off because he missed on it completely.

The 91 intermediate completions may have been intermediate in distance but not intermediate in skill level. Just because a guy sits in the zone 10 yards out and catches a pass its not the same as running a well timed post 15-20 yards over the middle and Trent firing it into a tight space with a well timed throw. Bid difference. The stats don't tell the story.

Then of course there is the simple fact that we all watch Trent and we all know that the deep middle of the field for him is off limits. By deep middle once again I am talking about deep crossing routes, deep outs, post, skinny post, and deep slants. Passes that require line drive throws or on a rope throws.

[HHURRICANE]

Just wanna know who is now convinced that Edwards should be the starter.... Personally, I didn't see anything new from Trent, a few dump-offs, the hesitation that got him smacked in the head, and a deep throw to a wide open Lee Evans. I was more impressed with the play design than the throw actually.

My point is if we are comparing what Edwards did over 2 games with what Brohm did in yesterday's game, Brohm is wayyy superior.

Brohm threw darts yesterday, he threw a variety of different throws and was accurate. More than anything though, he goes through his progressions fast and the ball is released fast and with velocity. The guy just looks like a QB back there. He used all his receivers and that throw to Jackson to his outside shoulder was NFL caliber.

If Brohm doesn't start it's a shame and if he gets cut it's an outrage.

Edwards is the starter. End of thread.

[Mahdi]

Edwards is the starter. End of thread.
Yeah you can breathe now.

[HHURRICANE]

Yeah you can breathe now.

The best player usually wins the job. Not the fan favorite.

Edwards last season here anyway.

[BillsWin]

I like to think of this QB competition as a footrace. While Brohm did just enough to pass Fitz and move into second, Edwards did just enough to stay in the lead.

It's one of those things where if Edwards hadn't connected on that TD, then Brohm might be getting the nod on Saturday. Brohm did something Edwards hasn't been able to do in the past few preseasons and seasons. Move the chains on third down. Had Simpson caught that designed screen, then Brohm scores. Making the depth chart much more difficult to put together for next week.

While I'm not convinced that Edwards is "the guy". In fact, I'm positive he isn't. I still think the depth chart going into Saturday's game will be

Edwards
Brohm
Fitz
Brown

Hey, if Gailey was convinced that the QB competition was all wrapped up, he would have came out and ended it. Declaring Trent is the guy going into week one and that's that.

He hasn't done that yet. In fact, he can still opt to start Trent on Saturday but give Brohm some reps with the ones. If he does that, not only is Fitz pretty much gone, but Brohm has the opportunity to overtake Edwards in the race. All it takes is for him to move the ball, maybe score a TD and Trent to show us what he's shown us since "the hit" inconsistency.

[Philagape]

The 91 intermediate completions may have been intermediate in distance but not intermediate in skill level. Just because a guy sits in the zone 10 yards out and catches a pass its not the same as running a well timed post 15-20 yards over the middle and Trent firing it into a tight space with a well timed throw. Bid difference. The stats don't tell the story.

They never do, and I've never said he's particularly good at it.
It's weird to argue about what he did two years ago, but I'm doing it because I usually respect your opinions and insight, but on this one point what I remember is so much different.
Stats don't tell the whole story, but a few just jump out, like this:
In 2008, 25.7 percent of his attempts were in that intermediate range (after 23 percent as a rookie). In 2009, that plummeted to 14.8 percent. If that isn't evidence that something changed in him, I don't know what is.
I'm often not big on stats, but in this case they back up what I remember.
And nobody's disputing that TODAY, he's exactly what you say he is.

[better days]

I like to think of this QB competition as a footrace. While Brohm did just enough to pass Fitz and move into second, Edwards did just enough to stay in the lead.

It's one of those things where if Edwards hadn't connected on that TD, then Brohm might be getting the nod on Saturday. Brohm did something Edwards hasn't been able to do in the past few preseasons and seasons. Move the chains on third down. Had Simpson caught that designed screen, then Brohm scores. Making the depth chart much more difficult to put together for next week.

While I'm not convinced that Edwards is "the guy". In fact, I'm positive he isn't. I still think the depth chart going into Saturday's game will be

Edwards
Brohm
Fitz
Brown

Hey, if Gailey was convinced that the QB competition was all wrapped up, he would have came out and ended it. Declaring Trent is the guy going into week one and that's that.

He hasn't done that yet. In fact, he can still opt to start Trent on Saturday but give Brohm some reps with the ones. If he does that, not only is Fitz pretty much gone, but Brohm has the opportunity to overtake Edwards in the race. All it takes is for him to move the ball, maybe score a TD and Trent to show us what he's shown us since "the hit" inconsistency.

You make some good points about the QB competition. If Trent had the job wrapped up as HH thinks, it would be in EVERYONES best interest for Chan to come out & declare him the starter.

I think the fact Chan has not done that is very telling.

[Mahdi]

They never do, and I've never said he's particularly good at it.
It's weird to argue about what he did two years ago, but I'm doing it because I usually respect your opinions and insight, but on this one point what I remember is so much different.
Stats don't tell the whole story, but a few just jump out, like this:
In 2008, 25.7 percent of his attempts were in that intermediate range (after 23 percent as a rookie). In 2009, that plummeted to 14.8 percent. If that isn't evidence that something changed in him, I don't know what is.
I'm often not big on stats, but in this case they back up what I remember.
And nobody's disputing that TODAY, he's exactly what you say he is.
I'll tell you what changed... defenses.


If you remember his first few games against the Ravens, comeback game against the Raiders etc. He was throwing high percentage throws many of them were in the 10 yard range and then the WRs were getting YAC. It was a refreshing change from Losman

In his second year he continued that trend, first few games were against weak opponents we were 4-0 with Trent doing the same thing he started out his career doing, short throws, high percentage.

Finally, defenses started getting the drop on his habits. They were rushing only 3 or 4 and dropping the rest into coverage and forcing him to take what they knew he would take. Cleveland really drove that point home on Monday Night football. They had the perfect game plan to defend him and he had no answers. Therefore he settled for short throws to Lynch and Jackson for 4-5 yard gains and 3 and outs or got intercepted.

Other QBs would evaluate the defense and find the solution. The solution would have been to throw intermediate throws behind the LBs and in front of the safeties, but like I said those are difficult throws and require rope throws which Trent does not make.

[Mahdi]

You make some good points about the QB competition. If Trent had the job wrapped up as HH thinks, it would be in EVERYONES best interest for Chan to come out & declare him the starter.

I think the fact Chan has not done that is very telling.
I expect Chan to announce Trent the starter this week. Bank on it.

[better days]

I expect Chan to announce Trent the starter this week. Bank on it.

Well it would be nice if he does so before the season starts. This is the last week of camp.

[HHURRICANE]

I'll tell you what changed... defenses.


If you remember his first few games against the Ravens, comeback game against the Raiders etc. He was throwing high percentage throws many of them were in the 10 yard range and then the WRs were getting YAC. It was a refreshing change from Losman

In his second year he continued that trend, first few games were against weak opponents we were 4-0 with Trent doing the same thing he started out his career doing, short throws, high percentage.

Finally, defenses started getting the drop on his habits. They were rushing only 3 or 4 and dropping the rest into coverage and forcing him to take what they knew he would take. Cleveland really drove that point home on Monday Night football. They had the perfect game plan to defend him and he had no answers. Therefore he settled for short throws to Lynch and Jackson for 4-5 yard gains and 3 and outs or got intercepted.

Other QBs would evaluate the defense and find the solution. The solution would have been to throw intermediate throws behind the LBs and in front of the safeties, but like I said those are difficult throws and require rope throws which Trent does not make.

I like this post and I agree with it. Edwards had a horrible game in Cleveland but the coaches called some of the stupidest plays in that game.

Coaching Edwards, and Brohm up , can only help the team.

[justasportsfan]

“Yeah, he did a good job,” Gailey said. “He did nothing that would make you think that he couldn’t do the job down the line. I was impressed with how he handled himself in the ball game. He made some good decisions and some good throws.”

thats how much HH knows....nothing