Franchise value drops

[northernbillfan]

The Bills, along with every other team in the league, saw their values drop last year. Buffalo sits in the bottom five, worth about $799 million. The Jags are the leagues lowest team in terms of value at $725 million.

This raises three questions:

1: How does this affect the value of keeping the team in Buffalo?

2: Does this mean the Wilson family may be able to afford the stupid inheritance tax if Ralphy kicks it soon?

3: Now that they are under 1 billion, can someone inthe community step up to finance the team if the family decides to sell in the event of Ralph's death?

Source (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2010-08-25-nfl-franchise-values_N.htm)

[OpIv37]

I think last year they were valued at $850 million. The drop really isn't enough to change anything as far as the long-term viability of the team is concerned.

[northernbillfan]

I think last year they were valued at $850 million. The drop really isn't enough to change anything as far as the long-term viability of the team is concerned.Last year's value was $910 million.

[trapezeus]

This raises three questions:

1: How does this affect the value of keeping the team in Buffalo?

2: Does this mean the Wilson family may be able to afford the stupid inheritance tax if Ralphy kicks it soon?

3: Now that they are under 1 billion, can someone inthe community step up to finance the team if the family decides to sell in the event of Ralph's death?

Source (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2010-08-25-nfl-franchise-values_N.htm)

1. Perhaps it's easier to get the phantom Jim Kelly group to pony up $790MM than $910MM.

2. Nope, because if ralph doesn't kick it by December 31, 2010 at 11:59pm, the wilson estate will owe 50% of $910MM or $790MM, whatever the value is to the federal government. I doubt the family has 50% of that value in cash to make the payment. Therefore, they'll need to sell. And if they sell, they'll go to the highest bidder so that after tax they have the most left over.

3. i think this question is similar to 1. It will be easier for cash intensive investors. if the group of buyers have cash to buy it, then its great that the price falls. but if they need financing to a large degree, it doesnt' make much of a difference.

The biggest thing that would help keep the bills in buffalo is if ralph dies this year. it's a sad but true fact. and then there are all sorts of annoying political questions of why estates are allowed to get around this tax when historically it's always been at least 50%. But that debate would better be discussed in the spin zone.

[OpIv37]

oh wow, that's a bigger drop than I thought.

Still, the taxes on $799 million are still in the $350 million range and the Wilson family can't afford it. Even if they could, I really think they just don't care enough to run the team.

[Aero II]

If ther Bills are 5th lowest, I think there are 4 other teams more likely to move.

[OpIv37]

If ther Bills are 5th lowest, I think there are 4 other teams more likely to move.

It's a good thought but the reality is a lot more complex. For example, Jacksonville has this insane stadium lease agreement that would cost about $50 million to break, which means it would be cheaper to buy and move 4 to 5 other teams (including Buffalo), even though the Jaguars would cost less to buy.

[BidsJr]

then there are all sorts of annoying political questions of why estates are allowed to get around this tax when historically it's always been at least 50%. But that debate would better be discussed in the spin zone.


Don't you mean why the government gets to tax the family business again for something it has worked for? Not to mention the dollars they have confiscated in profits to Ralph, payouts to the players and taxes on consessions for the last 50+ years?

Sorry but that line of thinking is exactly why we will be SUPER lucky if the Bills end up staying in the State of New York after Ralph passes on.

[DraftBoy]

Unless the inheritance tax goes away no value drop is going to be deemed enough to warrant the Wilson family to keep the Bills or ensure they are in Buffalo long term.

[Bufftp]

The biggest thing that would help keep the bills in buffalo is if ralph dies this year. it's a sad but true fact. and then there are all sorts of annoying political questions of why estates are allowed to get around this tax when historically it's always been at least 50%. But that debate would better be discussed in the spin zone.
Uh oh some loco is gonna start a billboard....

[Dr. Lecter]

There is no inheritance tax if he leaves the team to his wife.

[DraftBoy]

There is no inheritance tax if he leaves the team to his wife.

Interesting, how old is she and is she in good health?

[Dr. Lecter]

She is ~70. Plays tennis on a competitive level.


Ralph dies, she inherits the team. She then marries me in the next 5 years. When she passes, I get the team.

Boom! Problem solved!

[northernbillfan]

There is no inheritance tax if he leaves the team to his wife.I did not know that little tidbit.

[Dr. Lecter]

I am pretty sure on that. I have been told that before.

[DraftBoy]

She is ~70. Plays tennis on a competitive level.


Ralph dies, she inherits the team. She then marries me in the next 5 years. When she passes, I get the team.

Boom! Problem solved!

Taking one for the team, I like it!

[Bufftp]

She is ~70. Plays tennis on a competitive level.


Ralph dies, she inherits the team. She then marries me in the next 5 years. When she passes, I get the team.

Boom! Problem solved!
Not so fast their speedy. She would have to be dead first to be willing to marry you....

[Historian]

The whole country is worth less thanks to the republican shenanigans of the last 8 years, so why should the Bills be any different?

[trapezeus]

the tax has been in place for years and for the most part is a tax that affects wealthy people after years of using tax friendly investment schemes.

There is a shortage of revenues for the government on services that you and i demand. it has to come somewhere. and yes, i think a family who still makes $350MM or so after taxes can afford to pay $350MM in taxes. moreso than asking you to pay another $0.12 for a soda because you were thirsty and just wanted to have a ******* soda once in a while.

[Dr. Lecter]

Not so fast their speedy. She would have to be dead first to be willing to marry you....
I don't have them lined up down the street like you do.

[ddaryl]

Does anyone beleive that NFL team vlaues will grow from where they are today ??? In the relatvie near future.. I do not.

I think there will be a rather sobering reality coming for the big markets whom have over invested in their stadiums and will see value be chipped away at. Or those who bought teams over th elast decade when prices of sed teams sky rocketed.

Serioulsy people are already struggling mightily to take a family to a football game.. and then add on the rediculous PSL's teams are charging for the rights to buy season tickets you have a complete recipe for disaster.

Will anyone shed a tear if the Cowboys take a vlaue beating and Jones starts whining about preserving the value of his completley over priced stadium.. albeit a real nice one, but one that requires a huge investment by the welathy to bring in ROI.

How about NYC where most jets fans are a blue collar bunch already seeing a huge pinch with those PSL's and fans who just cannot justify it anymore...

and all of this plays out well for Buffalo, where a devalued team becomes attractive in a American city that has already been beat down, but adquately supports its team, and doesn't have far to fall along side the rest of this countries mega metropolisis.

[ddaryl]

The whole country is worth less thanks to the republican shenanigans of the last 8 years, so why should the Bills be any different?

I think it is best to avoid politics in the Bills forums... This is a place where we can escape that and just pretend it doesn't exist even for a few minutes...

although I too want to scream it only invites thread derailing and nasty replies that just take away of the one thing we all have in common, our love of being abused by our football team

[trapezeus]

did any of you read the article about the Marlins new stadium deal and how they bamboolzed the state by crying poor and the real numbers come out and show they could have funded the stadium themselves?

these owners and their stadiums are fleecing the community. The local community gets nothing money wise, the banks financing the stadium deals end up with crappy deals on their book, and the teams that put very little down take all the profit in parking and suites.

Could any of us go to a city and say, "i want money to buy my mansion, i don't want to pay any of the utilities, and any fund raisers i hold in my house, i want a cut of the pie. You can pay the mortgage. I'll use my meager earnings to just furnish the house as a bed and breakfast and i'll keep the revenue. you just pay the bills."

That's a stadium deal these days.

[ddaryl]

She is ~70. Plays tennis on a competitive level.


Ralph dies, she inherits the team. She then marries me in the next 5 years. When she passes, I get the team.

Boom! Problem solved!

Oh my little Roy toy, what is it about sex that makes me have to take a dump.. all that pumpin, a pump and dump...

the best part is the last 20 seconds.. But you're the man Dr.Lecter, take one for the team


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[Dr. Lecter]

http://law.freeadvice.com/tax_law/estate_tax_law/spouse_tax_avoidance.htm



Can I avoid the federal estate tax by leaving everything to my spouse?

For a while, although you may wind up significantly increasing the total estate tax payable on your spouse's death.

You can pass all your property - in whatever form or amount - to your spouse (as long as that spouse is a U.S. citizen), free of any estate tax. This is called the "unlimited marital deduction". However, the property that has passed must still be included in the decedent's gross estate in order for the deduction to apply. If the gross estate does not include the transfers to the spouse, no marital deduction applies.

Although this seems to be a tempting planning strategy, it can be a double-edged sword:

(1) the assets you have left tax-free to your spouse are all taxed when your spouse later dies -at higher brackets. Your surviving spouse would have to remarry and give his/her entire estate to the new spouse in order to get another unlimited marital deduction. Most people would rather their children or other relatives benefit from the estate, rather than a new spouse and his/her family.

[OpIv37]

or just blow as much of it as possible before you die, because when you die the ****ing government is just going to take it all anyway.

[Dr. Lecter]

or just blow as much of it as possible before you die, because when you die the ****ing government is just going to take it all anyway.
They do that while you are alive too.

[trapezeus]

or just blow as much of it as possible before you die, because when you die the ****ing government is just going to take it all anyway.

private stimulus fund.

can you imagine ralph getting fit with gold teeth riding in a bently encouraging marshawn to hit more people in the street? he has a tracksuit, gold necklace, and rap blasting out of the car.

the only problem that most of his wealth is unspendable. you can't spend a $800MM asset that you don't sell.

[OpIv37]

When I get old, or if I start getting sick, I'm going to hire the best accountant I can afford to help me either spend all my assets or give them to family, so by the time I actually die I have $5 left to my name.

[Dr. Lecter]

When I get old, or if I start getting sick, I'm going to hire the best accountant I can afford to help me either spend all my assets or give them to family, so by the time I actually die I have $5 left to my name.


Until they find and give you a miracle cure at the last minute.

[ddaryl]

When I get old, or if I start getting sick, I'm going to hire the best accountant I can afford to help me either spend all my assets or give them to family, so by the time I actually die I have $5 left to my name.

for little guys like us thats fine.. We won't have much to leave if anythign anyways.

but for multi millionares / billionaires I believe not having the estate tax is a HUGE negative.

Do we really want a bunch of Paris Hiltons running around with untold wealth and no idea or care of what it's like to actually have to earn a living... That huge wealth was also made on the back of American infrastructure and labor and a solid % of that wealth should be returned to the same infrastructure that help provide that wealth for these families in the 1st place.. Of course government competence also creeps into this formula which expands that debate,

yes not every child of a wealth baron is going to be a huge fruitcake like Paris, but the odds go up dramatically when the silver spoon crowd has money and the power that comes with it...

heck guys like Gates have already said thier kids will get about a 10 mil inheritance and nothing more... because they know.

[trapezeus]

When I get old, or if I start getting sick, I'm going to hire the best accountant I can afford to help me either spend all my assets or give them to family, so by the time I actually die I have $5 left to my name.

they will still get your money as you'll pay capital gains taxes to realize the gains.

[EricStratton]

I really think they just don't care enough to run the team.


What makes you think this?