Bills lack linebackers of distinction

[HHURRICANE]

Interesting article:

The way people talk, you'd think Paul Posluszny was a budding Pro Bowler. He's fundamentally sound, a good tackler, but he's limited athletically. Poz was the middle linebacker on a bad run defense last year. He's a poor version of London Fletcher, and people couldn't wait to run Fletcher out of town.

Posluszny is also vulnerable in pass coverage, which will be critical in the new 3-4 defense. The entire linebacking corps is suspect dropping into coverage, which is bound to be a problem when the real games begin and opposing offenses game-plan in earnest.

I'm not sure what it says when Chris Ellis is the story of training camp. Ellis couldn't get on the field as a defensive end, but he'll likely start at outside 'backer with Reggie Torbor hurt. Chris Kelsay is on the other side. Kelsay is a veteran and a gamer, but it's pretty late for him to be learning a new position.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article171434.ece

[OpIv37]

I couldn't agree more.

We all know our secondary is good. In the first two preseason games, the DL wasn't great but they were adequate- Stroud and Dwan Edwards both looked comfortable and our NT's need work, but they weren't awful.

The linebackers, however, looked horrendous. Poz only played one or two series against Indy. He got beat in pass coverage, got pushed back by the TE after a reception (allowing a first down if I remember correctly), and got completely swallowed by blockers on a running play. Maybin looks adequate- against 3rd and 4th stringers. No one seems to have the speed to chase an RB to the outside, and Ellis has been the best of the bunch (which isn't saying much).

On paper, I would have thought that the DL was the fundamental flaw in this D, but right now it's looking like the real problem is LB.

[wmoz11]

I'm not concerned with the middle backers. I'm VERY concerned about both OLB spots, though.

[Dr. Lecter]

I'm not surprised it is LB. At least there were a few DL coming into the season, although Williams and Stroud are looking better than I would have predicted.

The only LB I feel comfortable with is Poz (his first game back, with little practice time beforehand, not withstanding). Davis is meh. Mitchell can blitz. Kelsay? Ugh. Torbor - journeyman. Maybin - awful pick as many of us said. Ellis has actually looked decent - he might be the positive surprise player this year. And the depth is weak.

[k-oneputt]

It goes back to drafting. Slow overrated Big-10 lbers. Get into the SEC and get those backers.
The Pats have two good young ones in Mayo and Spikes in the middle of their 3-4, lucky us.
This team has missed on to many premium picks. Plain and simple. It's looking like you can add Poz and Maybin to the average at best group.

[OpIv37]

It goes back to drafting. Slow overrated Big-10 lbers. Get into the SEC and get those backers.
The Pats have two good young ones in Mayo and Spikes in the middle of their 3-4, lucky us.
This team has missed on to many premium picks. Plain and simple. It's looking like you can add Poz and Maybin to the average at best group.

Getting to "average" would be a huge improvement for Maybin.

[HHURRICANE]

I can forgive the Lynch pick. But I believe that if we had waited we would got Beason without trading up. I wanted Willis that year but it would have required us trading up to get him.

Maybin is a whole different story. How you take Maybin over Orakpo is maybe the most insane thing ever. I'll admit that I'm not always right on draft pciks but Willis and Orakpo were both "sure" picks. For sure.

The fact that Ralph is still making decisions on personnel at 91 is just pathetic. This is the same guy who didn't want Bruce Simth.

[k-oneputt]

Ralph wanted Flutie.
We had Polian here to talk him off his ledge and take Bruce.
Which is one of the reasons Polian is no longer here. Ralph couldn't make him one of his "yes" men.
Good job Ralph.

[Beebe's Kid]

I know I am in the minority liking our good players, which in this case means Poz. It is funny how somebody can be so infatuated with Edwards, yet not like Poz. Poz has shown consistent improvement, he has been out best defensive player the last two seasons, and it's not enough, it's never enough.

Maybin is what he is. A 22 year old, second year project, that is having trouble keeping the weight that he needs to meet the physical demands of his position. Hopefully a little time helps him gain the physical tools he needs. He was probably the worst personnel pick for a 4-3 ever, and is a work in progress in a 3-4. He will need to find other ways to get to the QB, the full-sprint isn't going to work, and he isn't physical enough to move them....be smart Aaron, and trick them. Remember the spin move against Washington? That's the kind of thing we need more of...finesse moves.

I haven't seen enough of Davis. From what I understood he was a solid tackler and should be good in our system, but like is way too common, he has been injured, which means, apparently, he can't play.

Torbor gives us good depth, in my opinion, being able to play ILB or OLB. Not a superstar, but not a liability. There is no team that is all superstars, so it is funny how fans keep waiting for us to be the first.

Kelsay....don't you miss Schobel? You should call it a day, take all of the money we overpaid you and go buy the house next door.

Mitchell is one that I do not understand the hate for, at all. I guess it's because he was hurt last year. He was the only guy that could make a play in the front 7 when Poz went down, and he has been good his two years here, but he was injured so people do not like him anymore.

Ellis didn't see the field in a 4-3, because he was way better suited for the 3-4. I thought this had been covered, recovered, and beaten to ****ing death. I am pretty sure that was the scouting report on him out of college...I may have been dreaming though, because apparently his performance in the 4-3 is enough to hang him on...even though he didn't play. EVERY report has been very positive on him out of TC, but they must all be wrong, he was a bad fit at DE in 4-3, so just cut him.

I guess I am not as worried as some. A lot of that has to do with the fact that the entire LB core hasn't been on the field at the same time, and it would appear that Gailey is not showing his hand on the blitz packages they will be running. I guess we'll have to wait and see, until the games count for real, but why not start a negative thread in the meantime?

[HHURRICANE]

I know I am in the minority liking our good players, which in this case means Poz. It is funny how somebody can be so infatuated with Edwards, yet not like Poz. Poz has shown consistent improvement, he has been out best defensive player the last two seasons, and it's not enough, it's never enough.


I'll assume the "Edwards infatuation" comment was towrads me.

1) I posted an article that I didn't write, so don't shoot the messenger.

2) For the last time. Edwards is the best option. That doesn't mean I am a Edwrads homer. The problem with the Brohm homers here is that Brohm has yet to do anything so far that would make you believe that Edwards isn't the best option at this point.

[psubills62]

It goes back to drafting. Slow overrated Big-10 lbers. Get into the SEC and get those backers.
The Pats have two good young ones in Mayo and Spikes in the middle of their 3-4, lucky us.
This team has missed on to many premium picks. Plain and simple. It's looking like you can add Poz and Maybin to the average at best group.

What exactly makes Mayo better than Poz? The fact that he played in the SEC and is now on the Patriots? And the fact that he cost them a 1st round pick?

[k-oneputt]

What exactly makes Mayo better than Poz? The fact that he played in the SEC and is now on the Patriots? And the fact that he cost them a 1st round pick?

I guess you didn't watch him play his rookie year.
He did have some injury issues last year.

[psubills62]

I guess you didn't watch him play his rookie year.
He did have some injury issues last year.

Ah and Posluszny didn't have injury issues? If you're going to use that as an excuse instead of a negative, then might as well work it both ways.

[EDS]

What exactly makes Mayo better than Poz? The fact that he played in the SEC and is now on the Patriots? And the fact that he cost them a 1st round pick?

I believe the fact that Mayo is the more talented player, and the player that has had a greater impact on the field. Mayo is younger too which doesn't hurt.

[Pinkerton Security]

It goes back to drafting. Slow overrated Big-10 lbers. Get into the SEC and get those backers.
The Pats have two good young ones in Mayo and Spikes in the middle of their 3-4, lucky us.
This team has missed on to many premium picks. Plain and simple. It's looking like you can add Poz and Maybin to the average at best group.

Top LBers:
Patrick Willis, SEC
Elvis Dumervil, Big East
Clay Matthews, Pac-10
Jon Beason, ACC
Jerod Mayo, SEC
Jonathan Vilma, ACC
James Laurinaitis, Big 10
D'Qwell Jackson, ACC
David Harris, Big 10
DeMarcus Ware, Troy (FCS)
Rolando McClain, SEC
Nick Barnett, PAC-10
Terrell Suggs, PAC-10
Lance Briggs, Pac-10
Curtis Lofton, Big 12
Kirk Morrison, MWC
Karlos Dansby, SEC
Thomas Davis, SEC
Brian Cushing, Pac-10
LaMarr Woodley, Big 10
DeMeco Ryans, SEC
Rey Maualuga, Pac-10

I was bored and made up my own subjective list of top LBs and where they're from...There are some very athletic LBs from the SEC, but there are also some very good LBs from the Pac-10 and Big 10...im kindof surprised that there arent many top LBs from the Big 12, with Oklahoma, Texas and other powers being there..

[Pinkerton Security]

I believe the fact that Mayo is the more talented player, and the player that has had a greater impact on the field. Mayo is younger too which doesn't hurt.


Mayo is more of a sideline to sideline player...Poz i think is smarter and more fundamental.

[EDS]

Torbor gives us good depth, in my opinion, being able to play ILB or OLB. Not a superstar, but not a liability. There is no team that is all superstars, so it is funny how fans keep waiting for us to be the first.


I don't think any football fan expects their team to be a collection of superstars. Typically you hope to have at least one on your team if you plan on winning. Right now, the Bills don't have a real superstar on the team, which is a not insignificant part of their problem.

[psubills62]

I believe the fact that Mayo is the more talented player, and the player that has had a greater impact on the field. Mayo is younger too which doesn't hurt.

He's a couple years younger. How has he had more impact on the field? He plays with a much more talented front 7, has never had an INT, has only 0.5 more career sacks than Posluzny and fewer forced fumbles. And they've played nearly the same number of games.

[EDS]

He's a couple years younger. How has he had more impact on the field? He plays with a much more talented front 7, has never had an INT, has only 0.5 more career sacks than Posluzny and fewer forced fumbles. And they've played nearly the same number of games.

If you poll every GM in football better than 90% would pick Mayo over Poz. Mayo isn't as good as Willis obviously, nor as good as Beason or Harris, but still very good. Poz is good too, just a cut below those guys.

[psubills62]

If you poll every GM in football better than 90% would pick Mayo over Poz. Mayo isn't as good as Willis obviously, nor as good as Beason or Harris, but still very good. Poz is good too, just a cut below those guys.
Mayo may very well be better than Poz, but 1) it's not by enough to call Mayo elite and Poz average, 2) Poz is far better in impact plays than Mayo, 3) Mayo plays in a much better front 7.

When you consider everything, Mayo does have more talent. Does it show on the field? Apparently not as much as people think. I see no reason to say Mayo is that much better of a LB than Poz when you look at everything.

EDIT: I think we're closer in opinion than our previous posts showed. I'm arguing against the people who think Poz either sucks or is average, not against the people who think he's good.

[k-oneputt]

So you think Poz is above average then psubills62 ?

[Pinkerton Security]

So you think Poz is above average then psubills62 ?

Well when you compare Poz to, say, James Laurinaitis, DJ Williams or Demeco Ryans, who most people consider to be above average at worst...

Poz had around 10 less tackles on the season last year than each of these players, or less than 1 per game

He had 3 INT's, which is more than those 3 combined..


Im not saying Poz is a stud by any stretch, but i do think he is an above average player.

[k-oneputt]

Tackles are overrated.
Depends where and when.
If opposing offense is running the ball down your throat all day, of course your middle lb will have many tackles.
Too many judge lb play soley on tackles made.

[wmoz11]

Tackles are overrated.
Depends where and when.
If opposing offense is running the ball down your throat all day, of course your middle lb will have many tackles.
Too many judge lb play soley on tackles made.

And too many people don't read whole posts before commenting on them.

[psubills62]

Tackles are overrated.
Depends where and when.
If opposing offense is running the ball down your throat all day, of course your middle lb will have many tackles.
Too many judge lb play soley on tackles made.

I was judging it by impact plays, personally.

[Pinkerton Security]

Tackles are overrated.
Depends where and when.
If opposing offense is running the ball down your throat all day, of course your middle lb will have many tackles.
Too many judge lb play soley on tackles made.

tackles are overrated when it comes to Bills players...people always said Fletcher had so many tackles but they were downfield...now that hes a Redskin, some of those same people think hes a top LB...so which is it?

[YardRat]

Ralph wanted Flutie.
We had Polian here to talk him off his ledge and take Bruce.
Which is one of the reasons Polian is no longer here. Ralph couldn't make him one of his "yes" men.
Good job Ralph.

Flutie had already signed with the USFL months before the NFL draft even took place. He wasn't even an option in the first round.

[k-oneputt]

You never once heard me say Fletcher was a top lb, either when he was in Buff. or Wash.
Actually Fletcher is very similiar to Poz imo. Average at best who makes many tackles on the wrong side of the l.o.s.
Those guys are great for you Fanstasy football gurus.

[k-oneputt]

At least Fletcher can physically stay on the field though.