Ok so Mabin To inside backer and Hardy to TE.

[acehole]

Change the subject change the story....
Possibly a position change would do these guys both good.

We are thin at backer and also lack playmakers.
Mabin.
Why not move him next to pos?
Would be good in pass coverage.
Would be a threat to rush the passer from that position. (We don't now).
Is smallish and might lack toughness but so is ellison..see what he can do?

Hardy.
Might not get good separation against dbs but possibly fast enough to out run a backer or safty?
Stacked at WR.
Thin at TE.
We can use him like Shannon Sharp in denver years ago. Similar system.
He can also back up wr or be in on multi wr sets.
He can chip block.
He can cut block.
Teach him to inline block.
Get him on the creatin a lil.

[Dr. Lecter]

Hardy is way too small to play TE.

Maybin does not have the build to play ILB and his speed and quickness is, in theory, great for an OLB.

[psubills62]

Why move Maybin to ILB? OLB may be more of a concern, he doesn't fit well at ILB at all, in terms of play or measurables. Hardy would have to gain a lot of weight to play TE.

If we're going to scrap together bottom-of-the-barrel solutions at TE, I'd rather take whoever the Packers cut.

[BidsJr]

Cut both of them.

[acehole]

Hardy is way too small to play TE.

Maybin does not have the build to play ILB and his speed and quickness is, in theory, great for an OLB.

I mentioned these pionts....but it might be worth a shot.
6 5 is not to small...

[acehole]

Why move Maybin to ILB? OLB may be more of a concern, he doesn't fit well at ILB at all, in terms of play or measurables. Hardy would have to gain a lot of weight to play TE.

If we're going to scrap together bottom-of-the-barrel solutions at TE, I'd rather take whoever the Packers cut.

Ellis and kelsay have the OLB spot locked up imho.
Mabin might be the better player to play nex to pos.

Again see shannon sharp. In this zone blocking system it is not really demanding on TE position. The position has to help out and block a db or lb at second level. Chop and cut blocking can be done by parrish if need be. size doent mater as much.

I am not advocating this just give them a try at it.

[Dr. Lecter]

I mentioned these pionts....but it might be worth a shot.
6 5 is not to small...


220 Lbs is too small at that height. He would need to put on 30 pounds. At least.

[psubills62]

Ellis and kelsay have the OLB spot locked up imho.
Mabin might be the better player to play nex to pos.

Again see shannon sharp. In this zone blocking system it is not really demanding on TE position. The position has to help out and block a db or lb at second level. Chop and cut blocking can be done by parrish if need be. size doent mater as much.

I am not advocating this just give them a try at it.

Ellis and Kelsay are the starters, but it doesn't mean they can't rotate guys. Maybin is obviously being groomed to be a 3rd down specialist for now, they almost certainly don't want to remove him from that.

Maybin doesn't know any of the Ted LB responsibilities, and Davis has a lot of experience there. Not worth even bothering to switch them at this point even if Maybin was a good fit.

[k-oneputt]

If Maybin wasn't the 11 th pick in last years drafted he would be getting cut this year. He plays like a 3rd stringer.
The only hope is he is young and he will fill out physically and get better.

[OpIv37]

220 Lbs is too small at that height. He would need to put on 30 pounds. At least.

6'5" 220? Maybe Hardy can play D. Isn't that about perfect size for 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB?

[k-oneputt]

6'5" 220? Maybe Hardy can play D. Isn't that about perfect size for 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB?

It is if you are a scout for the Bills the last ten years.

[EDS]

Stacked at WR.


Did the Bills make a trade?

[justasportsfan]

Maybin still struggles against the run even in space. You will slow him down while trying to shed off blockers in highly congested traffic. He needs space to use his quickness.

Hardy isn't physical enough as a wr all the more playing TE.

[trapezeus]

hardy should in theory have an easier time learning how to run routes than learning a new skill like running blocking at the wrong weight.

maybin, i'll wait to see him over the course of this year in real games before i judge him. and in truth, i'll probably know after 4 real games on whether i think there is anything there.

if i was forced to guess on him based on the limited preseason i watched of him, he's an over paid back-up. want to cut costs on the payroll get rid of that guy and sign a veteran who actually has played OLB for significantly cheaper.

it would seem to me to be a great way to preach accountability. To cut a 1st rounder that may not go anywhere and prove to the team, "we don't play politics, we play players who play well."

[DraftBoy]

Actually I dont think either of these ideas are bad one if you allow each player a year to grow into their new position. Neither could do it today but they may suit each other well (especially Hardy).

[BertSquirtgum]

did you smoke an ounce of weed before posting this?

[Mahdi]

Actually I dont think either of these ideas are bad one if you allow each player a year to grow into their new position. Neither could do it today but they may suit each other well (especially Hardy).
Are you serious or just playing devil's advocate. Maybin to ILB and Hardy to TE? are you kidding me?

Maybin's weakness is his ability to shed blocks and be physical in the run game and you think it's a good idea to move him inside to face pulling guards and C and mash it up???

And Hardy to TE? Do I even need to get into it?

Man you know yer stuff usually but this is way off.

[DraftBoy]

Are you serious or just playing devil's advocate. Maybin to ILB and Hardy to TE? are you kidding me?

Maybin's weakness is his ability to shed blocks and be physical in the run game and you think it's a good idea to move him inside to face pulling guards and C and mash it up???

And Hardy to TE? Do I even need to get into it?

Man you know yer stuff usually but this is way off.

Same issues with Timmons and he plays inside and you seem to be confusing the scheme here. With our 3-4 if its operating properly there shouldn't be any OC or OG coming to bash him. Also Moats had the same issues as Maybin and they moved him inside. Secondly if a guard is pulling he'll be pulling to the outside, thus having no affect on the ILB who will either be sliding to mirror the run and fill the gap or already be in backside pursuit.

Sure get into it, he fails to gain seperation from CB's at the NFL level, but he could against TE's and most S's I bet. He's got great height and the athleticism to split out wide and the idea was already floated before back when he was drafted because he is known as slow footed.

Like I said give each a year to learn the position, technique and hit the weights (Hardy 245-255) and Maybin (255-265) and I would be happy to give it a shot. Not like they are doing much right now where they are.

[more cowbell]

Since when is Kelsay the starter? I thought Torbor started over him and Ellis over Kelsay

[acehole]

220 Lbs is too small at that height. He would need to put on 30 pounds. At least.

Kieth elison

Keith Ellison#56LinebackerBuffalo Bills Height: 6-0
Weight: 229

[Mad Max]

Kieth elison

Keith Ellison#56LinebackerBuffalo Bills Height: 6-0
Weight: 229

But you do realize that Ellison truly sucks at his job.

[acehole]

Thank you what I was thinking.....


Same issues with Timmons and he plays inside and you seem to be confusing the scheme here. With our 3-4 if its operating properly there shouldn't be any OC or OG coming to bash him. Also Moats had the same issues as Maybin and they moved him inside. Secondly if a guard is pulling he'll be pulling to the outside, thus having no affect on the ILB who will either be sliding to mirror the run and fill the gap or already be in backside pursuit.

Sure get into it, he fails to gain seperation from CB's at the NFL level, but he could against TE's and most S's I bet. He's got great height and the athleticism to split out wide and the idea was already floated before back when he was drafted because he is known as slow footed.

Like I said give each a year to learn the position, technique and hit the weights (Hardy 245-255) and Maybin (255-265) and I would be happy to give it a shot. Not like they are doing much right now where they are.

[acehole]

But you do realize that Ellison truly sucks at his job.

That might very well be but that is not due to hight and weight.

All I am saying is we have needs at TE and ILB and maybe this will keep them from being cut at one position to be depth and possible good players at one of need.

I am not saying it will happen or it should I am saying it is not a bad idea to give them a shot at developing into something special vs cutting them.

MAybin up the middle blitz sounds good to me.

Hardy out running and being 8 inches taller then the backer covering him sounds good to me.

[Hogwasher]

I think Hardy would have a difficult time putting on the weight needed to become a tight end because of his slight frame. Normally you would look for a guy with a heavier build to start with. Adding strength has been a problem for Hardy.

Normally you look for an inside linebacker who has a lot of leverage, someone around five ten and 250 lbs. Maybin has much less power than that. Terrel Owens probably has a heavier frame than Maybin.

[Mahdi]

Same issues with Timmons and he plays inside and you seem to be confusing the scheme here. With our 3-4 if its operating properly there shouldn't be any OC or OG coming to bash him. Also Moats had the same issues as Maybin and they moved him inside. Secondly if a guard is pulling he'll be pulling to the outside, thus having no affect on the ILB who will either be sliding to mirror the run and fill the gap or already be in backside pursuit.

Sure get into it, he fails to gain seperation from CB's at the NFL level, but he could against TE's and most S's I bet. He's got great height and the athleticism to split out wide and the idea was already floated before back when he was drafted because he is known as slow footed.

Like I said give each a year to learn the position, technique and hit the weights (Hardy 245-255) and Maybin (255-265) and I would be happy to give it a shot. Not like they are doing much right now where they are.
There is a huge difference between Maybin's build and Moats'. Maybin is a lanky guy a lot like Jason Taylor. You don't just move those guys inside. Moats has a low base and is more thickly built at 6'2 250. And please don't tell me I'm confusing the schemes. Sorry but no, every 3-4 inside LB faces interior linemen. I don't care what the scheme is. That just makes no sense. And a guard doesn't only pull to the outside, they pull to certain gaps and at any moment that could be the gap occupied by either ILB. Also, any C or G flowing to the second level would toss Maybin like a doll. He doesn't have the leg strength to gain leverage over linemen while defending the run. His qualities, such as his speed, burst and length would be useless inside. And that's only the physical issues, add to that the reads and recognitions and covering TEs on crossing routes and downfield, this idea is way to far fetched.

As for Hardy, the guy is also a very lanky player. Route running is not his strength. If converting Hardy to TE was that simple every failed WR prospect would be switched to TE assuming he has the size. Hardy is purely a WR and asking him to add 25 pounds and become a sound blocker is very unrealistic.

[k-oneputt]

You think Maybin is getting his ass kicked playing outside backer, well you move him inside and you will really see a beating.

[DraftBoy]

There is a huge difference between Maybin's build and Moats'. Maybin is a lanky guy a lot like Jason Taylor. You don't just move those guys inside. Moats has a low base and is more thickly built at 6'2 250. And please don't tell me I'm confusing the schemes. Sorry but no, every 3-4 inside LB faces interior linemen. I don't care what the scheme is. That just makes no sense. And a guard doesn't only pull to the outside, they pull to certain gaps and at any moment that could be the gap occupied by either ILB. Also, any C or G flowing to the second level would toss Maybin like a doll. He doesn't have the leg strength to gain leverage over linemen while defending the run. His qualities, such as his speed, burst and length would be useless inside. And that's only the physical issues, add to that the reads and recognitions and covering TEs on crossing routes and downfield, this idea is way to far fetched.

As for Hardy, the guy is also a very lanky player. Route running is not his strength. If converting Hardy to TE was that simple every failed WR prospect would be switched to TE assuming he has the size. Hardy is purely a WR and asking him to add 25 pounds and become a sound blocker is very unrealistic.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, but for the record a G or C that pulls inside is not pulling they are doing what's called a trap block. Calling it pulling threw me off. Maybin's build is not ideal, I agree but you seem to be of the opinion its impossible for him to generate lower body strength. He's still young and developing and could do a Timmons like move (Timmons had similar issues coming out of college, lack of lower body strength, etc.).

Hardy is a lanky player, so is Nelson (former WR btw) and a bunch of other athletic TE's. I know route running isn't his strength, I never said it was. A lot are, Mike Williams was considered to be asked to do it, before he got cut. Nobody would ask him to be a sound blocker, he would strictly be a pass catching TE and used as a decoy option because of the mismatch he would immediately create.

[Mahdi]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, but for the record a G or C that pulls inside is not pulling they are doing what's called a trap block. Calling it pulling threw me off. Maybin's build is not ideal, I agree but you seem to be of the opinion its impossible for him to generate lower body strength. He's still young and developing and could do a Timmons like move (Timmons had similar issues coming out of college, lack of lower body strength, etc.).

Hardy is a lanky player, so is Nelson (former WR btw) and a bunch of other athletic TE's. I know route running isn't his strength, I never said it was. A lot are, Mike Williams was considered to be asked to do it, before he got cut. Nobody would ask him to be a sound blocker, he would strictly be a pass catching TE and used as a decoy option because of the mismatch he would immediately create.
Timmons packs 234 pounds into a 6'1 frame. Completely different than Maybin, the two players are not even comparable in terms of traits and abilities.

Nelson is 6'5 240 pounds, he is not lanky. That is 20 pounds more than Hardy and the reason he is a TE and Hardy is WR.

Nelson is still learning to play TE and his IS a TE. You want Hardy to add 20-25 pounds, learn to block and pass block, learn how to run proper routes etc, and btw every TE has to block, no such thing as a TE who is just a decoy and only goes out into pass patterns. Then it would be too predictable.

TEs have a knack of finding holes in zones, using their body to box out and reading the QB. Hardy has his own challenges at WR. Again, not realistic and the thought of these two position changes would never even cross the mind of any coach unless the rest of our TEs go down.

[DraftBoy]

Timmons packs 234 pounds into a 6'1 frame. Completely different than Maybin, the two players are not even comparable in terms of traits and abilities.

Nelson is 6'5 240 pounds, he is not lanky. That is 20 pounds more than Hardy and the reason he is a TE and Hardy is WR.

Nelson is still learning to play TE and his IS a TE. You want Hardy to add 20-25 pounds, learn to block and pass block, learn how to run proper routes etc, and btw every TE has to block, no such thing as a TE who is just a decoy and only goes out into pass patterns. Then it would be too predictable.

TEs have a knack of finding holes in zones, using their body to box out and reading the QB. Hardy has his own challenges at WR. Again, not realistic and the thought of these two position changes would never even cross the mind of any coach unless the rest of our TEs go down.

:bangingheadagainstwall:

This is getting pointless, the idea was floated and my opinion on it is why not? Its not like they are doing anything at their current positions.