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View Full Version : Who's Better on Paper? Bills vs Dolphins



Mahdi
09-07-2010, 08:37 AM
Going into week 1 against the Phish thought it would be interesting to do a position by position comparison between the Bills and Phins.


QB - Edwards vs Henne - Both have been inconsistent players and have a lot to prove.

--- EVEN ---


RBs - Spiller/Jackson/Lynch vs Brown/Williams/Cobbs - Lynch/Jackson is just about equal to Williams/Brown here. The X-factor in this comparison though is Spiller.

--- Advantage Buffalo ---


WRs - Evans/Johnson/Parrish vs Marhsall/Bess/Hartline - Marhsall is one of the best WRs in the NFL and is more of a threat on the field than Lee Evans. Bess and Hartline are also more accomplished at this point than Parrish and Johnson.

--- Advantage Miami ---


OT - Bell/Meredith vs Long/Carey - At this point it's not even a comparison. Miami has two established OTs who excel in all phases of the game. Buffalo might have their say in it down the road with Bell and Meredith developing but that is yet to be seen.

--- Advantage Miami ---


OG/C - Levitre/Hangartner/Wood vs Incognito/Berger/Jerry - The interior of the Bills line has been playing together for over a year now and have been the strength of the team. They all bring their own skill set to the table and are a great fit in Gailey's system. The Dolphins have a brand new interior adding Incognito who is a mauler and John Jerry through the draft. Berger is a reliable starter but nothing more. They will need time to play together and prove themselves.


--- Advantage Buffalo ---


TEs - Stupar/Martin vs Fasano/Nalbone - This is the battle of the worst positions for both teams. Martin is just about equal to Fasano in terms of career production and the other two are unknowns.

--- EVEN ---



NT - Williams/Troup vs Starks/Soliai - Both KW and Starks are adjusting to new positions at the NT spot. Starks moves over from 3-4 DE to NT and KW moves from a 4-3 DT to the nose. Both are a bit undersized for the position so it will be interesting to see who has made the smoothest transition and help shut down the run game for their teams. Soliai though provides a bit more experience behind Starks than Troup provides. But Troup brings energy and more mobility.

--- EVEN ---



DE - Stroud/Edwards vs Langford/Odrick - Tough call. Stroud and Edwards bring a ton of experience and are very strong players at the point of attack. Langford has proven to be a reliable starter at DE and Odrick is a rookie with a ton of upside. I think the experience of Dwan Edwards in the 3-4 along with Stroud who has looked like a great fit at DE gives the Bills a slight advantage over the younger Phins DEs.

--- Advantage Bills ---



ILBs - Poz/Davis vs Crowder/Dansby - This one is not very close at all. Crowder is an established 3-4 ILB and Dansby is a very good inside backer himself, although a little overrated. Still, Poz has not been comfortable in his new position having difficulty locating ball carriers and also looking out of position in pass coverage. Davis brings experience and the ability to sniff out run plays but is also a liability in coverage. IMO, the Bills ability to cover TEs and Rbs will be a problem all year long.

--- Advantage Dolphins ---



OLBs - Kelsay/Torbor/Maybin/Ellis vs Misi/Wake - I listed all 4 for the Bills because it seems they will be very situational about their OLBs while the Dolphins seem to be committed to Misi and Wake as every down players. This could either be a strength for these two teams or a glaring weakness. Both teams are using players who have not played the position before and/or players who struggle in defending the run. Wake and Maybin are pegged as the pass rushers but neither are comfortable in coverage. Misi is a rookie and will have to adjust to the NFL game while taking on a new position also. Kelsay seems to be out of place as a LB also. There are a ton of question marks at these positions and only one thing we know for sure. Cameron Wake is a proven pass rusher. The Bills have no one proven who can get after the QB.

--- Advantage Dolphins ---



CBs- McGee/Florence/McKelvin vs Davis/Allen/Smith - This is a no contest for the Bills. McGee and Florence were very consistent players for the Bills last year and both have a knack for getting their hands on the ball. McKelvin is emerging as a shut down CB with his speed and cover skills. Davis has been showing flashes of becoming that shut down guy for the Dolphins but not quite there yet. Smith has been demoted it seems but also has plenty of potential. Allen has been a disappointment so far and will have trouble flipping his hips with quick WRs.


--- Advantage Bills ---



S - Byrd/Whitner vs Bell/Clemons - Bell has been a solid player in the league although he has trouble in coverage and Clemons is getting his first crack at the starting job and is unknown though he has potential. The Bills have Pro Bowl safety Jairus Byrd though which gives them the edge and a rejuvenated Whitner who should find his niche in a scheme that puts more pressure on QBs and allows him to make plays.


--- Advantage Buffalo ---


KR/PR - McKelvin/Spiller vs Cobbs/Bess - This is a no brainer. Mckelvin has proven to be one of the most explosive KRs in the league and Spiller made a career out of returning kicks for TDs in college. Buffalo should win 2-3 games on the backs of their returners.


--- Advantage Buffalo ---



To sum up....


Buffalo has the advantage at: RB, DE, CB, S, KR/PR and OG/C


Miami has the advantage at: WR, ILB, OLB and OT.

Even at: QB, NT, TE


Comment or post your own comparisons....

psubills62
09-07-2010, 08:46 AM
I would say DE is more even and TE is advantage Miami.

Otherwise, good job.

Beebe's Kid
09-07-2010, 08:47 AM
Good post. It looks like a lot of thought and work went into that. I agree with most points, and don't necessarily "disagree" with anything. I think Poz will be fine, but that is not the opinion of most.

I thought it was impressive that you remembered McKelvin returned kicks. Most people consider a player a bust, or complete forget about his after an injury. He was a lot of fun to watch in '08, and it would be nice if he returned to that form...crank the Young Jeezy before he returns...good stuff.

One other point is, again because he was injured, I think Mitchell is being written off by almost everybody, and I really feel he will make his presence felt.

ublinkwescore
09-07-2010, 08:47 AM
McKelvin hasn't shown me $#!t as a kick off returner in quite a while - we need to put McGee back there again.

HHURRICANE
09-07-2010, 09:29 AM
You can't split up the o-line like that.

Miami has a better o-line.

OpIv37
09-07-2010, 09:32 AM
is Byrd playing this week? I thought he was still hurt.

BuffaloBlitz83
09-07-2010, 09:33 AM
You can't split up the o-line like that.

Miami has a better o-line.

LOL I know. And you they have better DL

Mahdi
09-07-2010, 09:54 AM
You can't split up the o-line like that.

Miami has a better o-line.
Why can't it be split up? The Bills having a better interior could mean their run game is better than Miami's. But maybe the Phins superior OTs give them better pass pro than we have. Actually considering how new their interior is and how raw our exterior is it only makes sense to split it up.

Miami might have issues in the middle of their line this year.

Mahdi
09-07-2010, 09:56 AM
LOL I know. And you they have better DL
explain how they have a better DL....

We have 3 very solid players on the DL, Stroud and Edwards are better than what Miami has at DE. They have a young Langford, rookie and Starks who may not work out at NT.

HHURRICANE
09-07-2010, 10:13 AM
Why can't it be split up? The Bills having a better interior could mean their run game is better than Miami's. But maybe the Phins superior OTs give them better pass pro than we have. Actually considering how new their interior is and how raw our exterior is it only makes sense to split it up.

Miami might have issues in the middle of their line this year.

Because the o-line is the one group that has to play well together as a unit to work.

That's why you are always hearing about "cohesivness and geling" when o-lines are discussed. That came from our own coach as well.

You are kidding yourself if you don't think Miami has a better o-line.

I think this game is very close. It will come down to who can dominate the running game more. Spiller is still an unknown so just assuming we have an advantage won't be proven out until he plays in his first NFL game.

Dr. Lecter
09-07-2010, 10:16 AM
is Byrd playing this week? I thought he was still hurt.
He practiced and it sounds like he needs to get back into shape.

I would guess he will play, but it might be part time. But if he is out on running downs, that might be good.

Mahdi
09-07-2010, 10:19 AM
Because the o-line is the one group that has to play well together as a unit to work.

That's why you are always hearing about "cohesivness and geling" when o-lines are discussed. That came from our own coach as well.

You are kidding yourself if you don't think Miami has a better o-line.

I think this game is very close. It will come down to who can dominate the running game more. Spiller is still an unknown so just assuming we have an advantage won't be proven out until he plays in his first NFL game.
Yes OLs have to gel but that doesn't mean that the interior and the OTs are one and the same. If you have 2 All-Pro OTs and a crappy interior it's going to be hard to run the football the opposite is also true in pass pro.

And as for gelling, our 3 interior players are returning starters plus Bell at OT from last year. The fins have 2 new guards one of which is a rookie.

Mike13
09-07-2010, 10:27 AM
That was really good, I would like to point out that Mike Nolan is using a hybrid 4-3/3-4.

Paul Soliai has shown alot of improvement as a NT and could be a very capable Rotational NT.

Starks has shown alot of explosiveness at the position, if he can be our Jay Ratliff then we'll be fine.

Langford has been a solid DE, I would not overlook him.

HHURRICANE
09-07-2010, 10:29 AM
Yes OLs have to gel but that doesn't mean that the interior and the OTs are one and the same. If you have 2 All-Pro OTs and a crappy interior it's going to be hard to run the football the opposite is also true in pass pro.

And as for gelling, our 3 interior players are returning starters plus Bell at OT from last year. The fins have 2 new guards one of which is a rookie.

Yeah, you never have guards pulling while Tackles are out blocking. Yeah, Peters never struggled when Dockery missed a block.

You can't be more worng here.

Mahdi
09-07-2010, 10:32 AM
That was really good, I would like to point out that Mike Nolan is using a hybrid 4-3/3-4.

Paul Soliai has shown alot of improvement as a NT and could be a very capable Rotational NT.

Starks has shown alot of explosiveness at the position, ife he can be our jay Ratliff then we'll be fine.

Langford has been a solid DE, I would not over look him.
Agreed on all points.

Mahdi
09-07-2010, 10:36 AM
Yeah, you never have guards pulling while Tackles are out blocking. Yeah, Peters never struggled when Dockery missed a block.

You can't be more worng here.
I don't see your point really. All I am saying, to clarify, is that they have a much more established OT pair which will make them strong in certain areas of the game and we have a more established interior which will give us some advantages in certain areas of the game.

Mahdi
09-07-2010, 10:37 AM
He practiced and it sounds like he needs to get back into shape.

I would guess he will play, but it might be part time. But if he is out on running downs, that might be good.
I almost don't want him to play this week. These groin and hernia injuries are tricky and rushing him back could cost Byrd the season. Wilson will be fine for a week or 2.

justasportsfan
09-07-2010, 10:42 AM
coaching staff.

Advantage dolphins.

Our only advantage at this point is that we are hosting the fins and it's on the first game of the season which means the element of surprise could be on our side.

I don't care if you break down the team by position . The fins are better on paper based on having played together while the bills are learning new systems.

Do I think we can beat them? Yes. But i wouldn't bet my house on it.

better days
09-07-2010, 10:53 AM
coaching staff.

Advantage dolphins.

Our only advantage at this point is that we are hosting the fins and it's on the first game of the season which means the element of surprise could be on our side.

I don't care if you break down the team by position . The fins are better on paper based on having played together while the bills are learning new systems.

Do I think we can beat them? Yes. But i wouldn't bet my house on it.

I was going to say...........OPENING Day.........in Buffalo.

Homefield ADVANTAGE.......Bills. I think that could be the deciding factor.

stuckincincy
09-07-2010, 10:57 AM
Why can't it be split up? The Bills having a better interior could mean their run game is better than Miami's. But maybe the Phins superior OTs give them better pass pro than we have. Actually considering how new their interior is and how raw our exterior is it only makes sense to split it up.

Miami might have issues in the middle of their line this year.

The only pre-season game I was able to see was CIN-BUF. IIRC, Spiller got his yards (and losses in the 1st qtr) running wide.

For me, it remains to be seen if he can carry it between the tackles, and if the interior line is capable.

psubills62
09-07-2010, 11:13 AM
Yeah, you never have guards pulling while Tackles are out blocking. Yeah, Peters never struggled when Dockery missed a block.

You can't be more worng here.

Nobody argues that the OL can't work together. But it's perfectly reasonable to break it down the way Mahdi did.

You could easily use your argument to say that we can't really break it up by position either...why not just compare offense to offense and defense to defense? After all, the DL has to work with the LB's, who also depend on the CB's and the S's...etc.

If you're looking on paper, it's reasonable to even break it up into RT, RG, C, LG, LT.