Football 101 : Higher learning

[Extremebillsfan247]

This thread was designed with a purpose. There are fans out there like myself who have watched this game for years, watching the Bills play, without a real grasp for what really goes on in practice, or on the field on game day. I'm talking about fans who rarely if ever get down to the X's and O's of a play, and why, or how it's run. You see them run plays that have funny names like the Kgun, the spread, Wildcat, or Wing T etc. and identify these plays by how they line up. But how many times have you ever heard people ever go in depth on plays like these? their design? how they are created? why they work, or don't work?

This thread's purpose is to bring together those Bills fans with definitive knowledge of the game, and those who want to learn the things about the game they did not know before. I am one such Bills fan who will never claim to know everything about this game we have all grown to love so much, but will always be on the hunt for more knowledge. Will this work? who knows? but it never hurts to ask.. lol

[T-Long]

I'd be willing to answer any questions about the game that any fan has...I'm all ears

[YardRat]

You stand alone. Everybody else here is an expert.

[wmoz11]

I played QB in HS for a wing-t team and in college in a pro-style/spread.

I'll help with any questions relating to either.

[Jaybird]

I have high school and college experience on the defensive side of the ball (also kicked field goals.. but who cares about that). I am willing to answer any questions

[wmoz11]

Oh, and I'd be more than happy to discuss secondary play. Especially when it pertains to people refusing to understand the difference between a team playing cover-2 and Tampa 2. Pet peeve of mine.

[topher180]

This is a great idea and no matter how much anyone thinks they know, they always have something to learn.

I am far from an expert, but I played both sides of the ball in high school, and assistant coached youth football for two years.

[X-Era]

Fine, I'll play.

Define the difference between a pro-style offense and a spread offense. It's an important factor for people evaluating QB's in college. Why would that difference potentially affect a players ability to play QB in the NFL?

I don't think everyone understands it.

[Beautiful East]

Oh, and I'd be more than happy to discuss secondary play. Especially when it pertains to people refusing to understand the difference between a team playing cover-2 and Tampa 2. Pet peeve of mine.

Shoot!

[X-Era]

This is a great idea and no matter how much anyone thinks they know, they always have something to learn.

I am far from an expert, but I played both sides of the ball in high school, and assistant coached youth football for two years.

Well, I agree in principle but were 7 posts in and no one is willing to ask any questions.

[T-Long]

Fine, I'll play.

Define the difference between a pro-style offense and a spread offense. It's an important factor for people evaluating QB's in college. Why would that difference potentially affect a players ability to play QB in the NFL?

I don't think everyone understands it.

A pro style offense is one that incorporates a running back with the possibility of a fullback. It also is given that name because it is the style of offense most teams in the NFL run. A spread offense is mostly played with 5 wide and consists of short high completion rate passes.

There are so many variables though that one can argue either side...but that's how I look at the two.

[casdhf]

WTF are gaps?

[X-Era]

A pro style offense is one that incorporates a running back with the possibility of a fullback. It also is given that name because it is the style of offense most teams in the NFL run. A spread offense is mostly played with 5 wide and consists of short high completion rate passes.

There are so many variables though that one can argue either side...but that's how I look at the two.

Why is it considered an important factor in the evaluation of a college QB's ability to transition to the NFL?

[T-Long]

Why is it considered an important factor in the evaluation of a college QB's ability to transition to the NFL?
Most spread offenses are run out of the shotgun, so NFL teams are scared off of not being under center. But, as you look at the NFL nowadays, you are seeing a lot more shotgun plays called..so eventually, there won't be a difference.

[wmoz11]

Shoot!

Okay, well, first things first. Cover-2 just pertains to the secondary whereas the Tampa 2 is a defensive scheme.

Coverages are termed, in general, by the amount of deep segments the secondary is broken into. In cover 0, it's straight man coverage throughout. The safeties are manned up, the corners are manned up, and linebackers are manned up if applicable.

In cover-1, there is 1 deep safety who is responsible for the entire deep part of the field from sideline to sideline. The corners (usually multiple ones) play man underneath. This coverage is usually paired with a blitz so that the QB doesn't have enough time to stand in the pocket and wait for his receivers to beat their men and get up field where there is only one safety to cover the entire field.

Cover 2 has two safeties, each with deep half-field responsibilities. Corners can play soft, but in a base, usually play within 3-5 yards of the receiver. The corners are responsible for the flats first and foremost, but must travel deep with the receiver if they get a clean break and get vertical since the safeties won't have time to get over top of the sideline receivers. The vulnerabilities in this coverage are gaps between the safeties and corners (think flag/corner routes) and in the seams (usually tight ends or slot receivers).

Cover 3 is usually seen in high school or low-level colleges if we're talking base, although you can disguise them well enough with giving a cover 2 look and bringing one of the safeties (usually to the boundary) to take the wide receiver on that side at the snap of the ball and playing the corner to that side in a hook/curl section of the field or bring him on a blitz. Each secondary member is responsible for a deep 1/3 of the field and the vulnerabilites are hitches, comebacks, etc. because of the soft cushion generally played the the corners. The linebackers are to take away hook/curls, flats on the other side, and have to be aware for the number 1 receivers from each side slanting in.


Cover 4 or Quarters is just how it sounds (pretty much prevent defense). Four DBs each have a quarter field deep and the defense is willing to give up short passes.

Tampa-2 is a defensive scheme were the linemen have gap responsibilies and the MLB is in charge of getting to the deep middle of the field. That's where we have seen Poz struggle at times staying with tigh ends as they go up field. You can play cover 2 in any front and in any scheme, as long as you have 4 DBs, but you cannot play Tampa 2 in any situation. It relies on linemen, linebackers, and secondary members each functioning together to pull it off effectively.


Most of the above is in general, base terms.

[topher180]

WTF are gaps?

Gaps are the imaginary "holes" that many defensive schemes use to define assignments, which essentially reside between offensive lineman. These are typically denoted by letters (A, B, C, etc) and work inside out. So for example, in the systems I have played/coached in, the "holes" between the center and guard, on both sides, are A gaps.

[T-Long]

WTF are gaps?
Gaps are holes that OL create with blocks. If you ever hear the term, "He shot the gap..." DL are taught to blow up the OL's gaps to get penetration to the back. OL are taught to drive the DL out of the way to create a gap or lane for the RB.

They are also assigned letters as well...A gap (center/guard) B gap (guard/tackle), and C gap (tackle/outside)

[wmoz11]

Most spread offenses are run out of the shotgun, so NFL teams are scared off of not being under center. But, as you look at the NFL nowadays, you are seeing a lot more shotgun plays called..so eventually, there won't be a difference.

Right, plus the QB usually reads only one side of the field or one player on defense. That's where problems arise when translating spread QBs to the NFL where defenses are more complicated and there tends to be many more reads/responsibilies/blitzes. Spread QBs may not be able to effectively transition to these reads, although being a spread qb (see Houston, Hawaii, Texas Tech, Florida, etc QBs) does not necessarily mean that you won't be able to transition. It just makes it hard to evaluate when the QB hasn't had to make thsoe reads at a high level.

[X-Era]

Gaps are holes that OL create with blocks. If you ever hear the term, "He shot the gap..." DL are taught to blow up the OL's gaps to get penetration to the back. OL are taught to drive the DL out of the way to create a gap or lane for the RB.

I think this is the gap numbers:

http://www.footballtimes.org/AdvHTML_Upload/gaps.gif

[wmoz11]

The defense usually refers to gaps by letters and the offense by numbers.

[T-Long]

I think this is the gap numbers:

http://www.footballtimes.org/AdvHTML_Upload/gaps.gif
at IUP where I played it was different....same philosophies, but different terms. That's why a lot of answers will be different on here because people are taught different things at different places.

In high school, we had evens on right, odds on left. So if we called a 35 belly, it was going in the LT's hole. But in college, the numbering system was all different.

[X-Era]

(see Houston, Hawaii, Texas Tech, Florida, etc QBs)

Who are the good NFL QB's that have come from these places?

It may just make the point that its an important factor.

[X-Era]

at IUP where I played it was different....same philosophies, but different terms. That's why a lot of answers will be different on here because people are taught different things at different places.

I think, correct me if Im wrong, that a 3 gap DT means he can play the nose where as a 5 gap DT can play DE in a 3-4.

[topher180]

I think this is the gap numbers:

http://www.footballtimes.org/AdvHTML_Upload/gaps.gif

This is accurate for most offenses, especially in HS. But it's been my experience that "gap" is a defensive term, while "hole" refers to what you have above, and is largely an offensive term.

[X-Era]

This is accurate for most offenses, especially in HS. But it's been my experience that "gap" is a defensive term, while "hole" refers to what you have above, and is largely an offensive term.

I would only disagree because of the term 5-gap DT vs. 3-gap DT.

[T-Long]

I think, correct me if Im wrong, that a 3 gap DT means he can play the nose where as a 5 gap DT can play DE in a 3-4.

A "0" technique is a NT
A "5" technique is definitely a 3-4 DE

[wmoz11]

You're right - but just because someone played in a spread doesn't mean they can't learn a pro offense. Kevin Kolb has adjusted well enough so far, but in general, so far, you're absolutely right.

[T-Long]

Graham Harrell and Colt Brennan are perfect examples of QB's coming from a successful spread offense in college and tanking it in the pros

[X-Era]

A "1" technique is a NT
A "5" technique is definitely a 3-4 DE

Doing a bit more reading, 3-gap and 5-gap dont only apply to 3-4.

3-gap simply means they lineup over a G. 5-gap lines up over a T. and 1-gap lines up over the C.

[psubills62]

Cover 3 is usually seen in high school or low-level colleges if we're talking base, although you can disguise them well enough with giving a cover 2 look and bringing one of the safeties (usually to the boundary) to take the wide receiver on that side at the snap of the ball and playing the corner to that side in a hook/curl section of the field or bring him on a blitz. Each secondary member is responsible for a deep 1/3 of the field and the vulnerabilites are hitches, comebacks, etc. because of the soft cushion generally played the the corners. The linebackers are to take away hook/curls, flats on the other side, and have to be aware for the number 1 receivers from each side slanting in.

If I'm not mistaken, this is usually what Penn State employs in its secondary, giving up a lot of the underneath passes. Which typically don't hurt as much as long as the LB's are sound tacklers.

Great thread, by the way. I've had zero experience as a player (high school didn't have football), but I've picked up a few things from message boards, articles, etc.

By the way, X-Era, I think the word you're looking for is in T-Long's post - "technique." I don't think they're called 5-gap players, I'm pretty sure it's 5-technique.

[T-Long]

Doing a bit more reading, 3-gap and 5-gap dont only apply to 3-4.

3-gap simply means they lineup over a G. 5-gap lines up over a T. and 1-gap lines up over the C.
I didn't say it's only for a 3-4, because there are so many variables. But if you are talking about a 5 technique, the first thing that pops into football people's heads are that he is a 3-4 DE. I can guarantee you that much.

[X-Era]

If I'm not mistaken, this is usually what Penn State employs in its secondary, giving up a lot of the underneath passes. Which typically don't hurt as much as long as the LB's are sound tacklers.

Great thread, by the way. I've had zero experience as a player (high school didn't have football), but I've picked up a few things from message boards, articles, etc.

By the way, X-Era, I think the word you're looking for is in T-Long's post - "technique." I don't think they're called 5-gap players, I'm pretty sure it's 5-technique.

It is , your right.

[X-Era]

I didn't say it's only for a 3-4, because there are so many variables. But if you are talking about a 5 technique, the first thing that pops into football people's heads are that he is a 3-4 DE. I can guarantee you that much.

No, I said that, not you.

[Hogwasher]

Normally a 3 gap DT is a smaller, more mobile guy, like spencer Johnson or Larry Triplett.

[Ingtar33]

I think this is the gap numbers:

http://www.footballtimes.org/AdvHTML_Upload/gaps.gif


those are the "positions" for lineing up on the line of scrimage. Someone lining up in the 9 spot, is said to be playing the 9 technique. it's not a common place for a DE to be in, but you see it on passing downs from 4-3 defenses.

i could go through all the common "position" assignments if you'd like... for example, the DE in the 3-4 defense is commonly called a 5 technique linemen because he lines up in the 5 position on that chart (over the tackle)

The "Gaps" are the letter assigned names for the physical space between the blockers on the line of scrimage.

between the center and guard is the A gap
between the guard and tackle is the B gap
outside the Tackle is the C gap
outside the TE is the D gap

Gap assignments are preciesely what it sounds like. If on a running play, in a base 3-4 defense, with the front seven lines up over the following positions... olb - 7, de - 5, ilb - 2, nt - 0.. the gap assignments in a 2 gap scheme could be...

nt - A & A
ilb - A & B
de - B & C
olb - C & D

[Extremebillsfan247]

Here is what I think is a good question, what is the difference between a Full back and an H back? and why don't more teams use an H back?

[Extremebillsfan247]

Okay, well, first things first. Cover-2 just pertains to the secondary whereas the Tampa 2 is a defensive scheme.

Coverages are termed, in general, by the amount of deep segments the secondary is broken into. In cover 0, it's straight man coverage throughout. The safeties are manned up, the corners are manned up, and linebackers are manned up if applicable.

In cover-1, there is 1 deep safety who is responsible for the entire deep part of the field from sideline to sideline. The corners (usually multiple ones) play man underneath. This coverage is usually paired with a blitz so that the QB doesn't have enough time to stand in the pocket and wait for his receivers to beat their men and get up field where there is only one safety to cover the entire field.

Cover 2 has two safeties, each with deep half-field responsibilities. Corners can play soft, but in a base, usually play within 3-5 yards of the receiver. The corners are responsible for the flats first and foremost, but must travel deep with the receiver if they get a clean break and get vertical since the safeties won't have time to get over top of the sideline receivers. The vulnerabilities in this coverage are gaps between the safeties and corners (think flag/corner routes) and in the seams (usually tight ends or slot receivers).

Cover 3 is usually seen in high school or low-level colleges if we're talking base, although you can disguise them well enough with giving a cover 2 look and bringing one of the safeties (usually to the boundary) to take the wide receiver on that side at the snap of the ball and playing the corner to that side in a hook/curl section of the field or bring him on a blitz. Each secondary member is responsible for a deep 1/3 of the field and the vulnerabilites are hitches, comebacks, etc. because of the soft cushion generally played the the corners. The linebackers are to take away hook/curls, flats on the other side, and have to be aware for the number 1 receivers from each side slanting in.


Cover 4 or Quarters is just how it sounds (pretty much prevent defense). Four DBs each have a quarter field deep and the defense is willing to give up short passes.

Tampa-2 is a defensive scheme were the linemen have gap responsibilies and the MLB is in charge of getting to the deep middle of the field. That's where we have seen Poz struggle at times staying with tigh ends as they go up field. You can play cover 2 in any front and in any scheme, as long as you have 4 DBs, but you cannot play Tampa 2 in any situation. It relies on linemen, linebackers, and secondary members each functioning together to pull it off effectively.


Most of the above is in general, base terms.Is there a difference in how you use a cover 2 in a 3/4 than in a 4/3 scheme?

[Extremebillsfan247]

Why is it considered an important factor in the evaluation of a college QB's ability to transition to the NFL? It seems as I watched the draft this year that the main complaint of the spread, is the lack of a young QBs ability to play under center which is the norm for a pro style offense. That's just a guess though.

[psubills62]

It seems as I watched the draft this year that the main complaint of the spread, is the lack of a young QBs ability to play under center which is the norm for a pro style offense. That's just a guess though.

I'm going to completely throw out a musing about this, and hopefully more knowledgeable people will correct me if I'm wrong. These are the reasons I can see NFL teams being wary about QB's with little to no experience under center:

1) Footwork. Dropping back from under center is much harder than taking a shotgun snap.

2) Reading a defense. It just seems like it would be harder to read a defense (especially if you're a college QB learning how to make multiple reads at once) from under center.

3) Handling snaps. Usually a shotgun QB can use his athleticism to corral bad snaps. Exchanging the ball between a center and a QB under center almost certainly takes a little more practice.

I'm sure there are more reasons why shotgun QB's have a harder time transitioning.

However, I do want to point out that, as Ingtar has alluded to a few times, not all spread systems are the same. IIRC, Bradford had to actually make reads in college. Colt McCoy, however, came from a one-read system, where there was only one receiver he was going to on each play - if the receiver wasn't open, he either ran or threw it away.

[Hogwasher]

Is there a difference in how you use a cover 2 in a 3/4 than in a 4/3 scheme?
Not in theory. But in practice, with the smaller linebackers of the 4-3 Jauron style, you get more man under cover 2 defenses. With the blitzes and gap changing in the 3-4, you get more linebackers and men under filling for others in short zones. You also have the flexibility of having a nickel or dime 3-4 look, which does not play different than a regular nickel or dime, except any of the four linebackers may be replaced.

The strong safety is more likely to play deep in a 3-4 than a 4-3, because of the added ability to drop a linebacker underneath. The free safety tends to be a more attacking position because the strong tends to play deeper. We seem to have Wilson, our strong, in that attacking position more often than Whitner, because Whitner is better in coverage and Wilson probably slightly more stout in the box than whitner.