The Bills have so many holes they won't be good for years unless.......

[Ebenezer]

RW ponies up and spend major money in FA. They cannot rely on the draft. Holes at QB, LT, RT, WR, DE, OLB (2), ILB. How many years will it take through the draft?? Even if they hit home runs on every pick you are looking at three years?, minimum? Time for RW to pony up or this team is going to suck for a long time.....:2cents:

[TacklingDummy]

Everything is a cycle.

From 1967 to 1987 (21 seasons) the Bills basically were not very good.

15 losing seasons
1 .500 season
5 winning season (only 2 seasons with double digit wins)

The Bills newest struggles began in 2000. (10 seasons)

2 .500 seasons
1 winning season (9-7)
7 losing seasons.

In conclusion, at this pace the Bills should be good again around 2021.

[don137]

I agree. Look at the Saints they built their championship team through the draft (Colston, Bush, etc), FA (Hargrove, Brees, etc)and trades (i.e. Vilma).

[Extremebillsfan247]

RW ponies up and spend major money in FA. They cannot rely on the draft. Holes at QB, LT, RT, WR, DE, OLB (2), ILB. How many years will it take through the draft?? Even if they hit home runs on every pick you are looking at three years?, minimum? Time for RW to pony up or this team is going to suck for a long time.....:2cents:Holes are good for straining noodles. lol Looks like Spaghetti for dinner tonight.

[Mad Max]

RW ponies up and spend major money in FA. They cannot rely on the draft. Holes at QB, LT, RT, WR, DE, OLB (2), ILB. How many years will it take through the draft?? Even if they hit home runs on every pick you are looking at three years?, minimum? Time for RW to pony up or this team is going to suck for a long time.....:2cents:


It begins with the draft. Your list for example says we need eight players, we're not going to be able to find and then acquire eight free agents who are significant upgrades.

We need a couple of years of shrewd drafting to lay a solid foundation.....then we fill the 2-3 remaining holes with quality (expensive) FA.

[YardRat]

You left out TE, Eb.

[Zero]

Everything is a cycle.

From 1967 to 1987 (21 seasons) the Bills basically were not very good.

15 losing seasons
1 .500 season
5 winning season (only 2 seasons with double digit wins)

The Bills newest struggles began in 2000. (10 seasons)

2 .500 seasons
1 winning season (9-7)
7 losing seasons.

In conclusion, at this pace the Bills should be good again around 2021.


With our front office in disarray not to mention the seemingly irreperable damage done to the reputation of this franchise and tenuous ownership situation, 2021 seems about right.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Face it, the only FAs that are willing to come to Buffalo are washed-up has-beens like Terrell Owens. You can't rely on free agency in this town, either.

The only thing that can help them at this point is divine intervention.

[TacklingDummy]

Face it, the only FAs that are willing to come to Buffalo are washed-up has-beens like Terrell Owens. You can't rely on free agency in this town, either.


Isn't that what most Free Agents are?

Teams are built through the draft.

When your 1st round draft choices look like Flowers, McGahee, Maybin, Whitner, McCrago, Losman, Evans, Williams, Lynch, and McKelvin, you get will the Bills received the past 10 years.

[ddaryl]

got to have a competent core of players before FA's actually make the difference IMO.

[RoscoeMagic]

We've been 1 piece away every year since we got rid of Bledsoe.

QUARTERBACK. Get a real one and we'll stop whining about Whitner, Green, Kelsay, Steve Johnson, Gailey etc...although they deserve their fair share of sh**.

[Lexwhat]

I agree. Look at the Saints they built their championship team through the draft (Colston, Bush, etc), FA (Hargrove, Brees, etc)and trades (i.e. Vilma).

Finding a free agent like Drew Brees happens only once every 10 years. The circumstances were unbelievable, and you gotta give the Saints credit.

My point is -- free agency is fine if the core pieces (QB, LT, DT) are already in place. Almost no one ever finds those 3 positions in free agency and ends up with a good deal.

[don137]

Finding a free agent like Drew Brees happens only once every 10 years. The circumstances were unbelievable, and you gotta give the Saints credit.

My point is -- free agency is fine if the core pieces (QB, LT, DT) are already in place. Almost no one ever finds those 3 positions in free agency and ends up with a good deal.

OK throw in a trade and look at Houston. They traded for Schaub who just beat Indy and look very good. They have an undrafted RB that ran for over 200 yards last week. Arizona had great success with Warner as a FA. What is being said is in today's NFL you need success in the draft, FA and trading.
The Bills pulled the trigger and traded for Bennett which was a key piece of that defense for the Bills in the late 80's early 90's.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bills traded for Rob Johnson. How did that work out?

[Ebenezer]

The Bills traded for Rob Johnson. How did that work out?

so never trade again? never sign a free agent because Dockery didn't work out? IF they continue to depend on the draft and the draft alone they will NEVER be good again. Even if you get lucky and draft studs at three positions in just one year by the time you assemble a team around them their contract is up and they are UFAs...it gets too expensive to keep them all and you have to scramble to replace them...it is a vicious circle that can only be broken via FA and trades.

[OpIv37]

Does anyone see the common theme here? FA's, drafts, trades- regardless of how we acquire personnel, they suck. Nothing will change until we get
a) better talent evaluators and
b) an owner who is willing to listen to his talent evaluators rather than his own instincts and his own wallet.

[X-Era]

Finding a free agent like Drew Brees happens only once every 10 years. The circumstances were unbelievable, and you gotta give the Saints credit.

My point is -- free agency is fine if the core pieces (QB, LT, DT) are already in place. Almost no one ever finds those 3 positions in free agency and ends up with a good deal.

Well we drafted Troupe... he's now a core piece.

We drafted Wang, I guess he is too.

When you build only through the draft, you better hit 2 or 3 "core" players every year.

[Ebenezer]

Well we drafted Troupe... he's now a core piece.

We drafted Wang, I guess he is too.

When you build only through the draft, you better hit 2 or 3 "core" players every year.
Troup and Wang don't exactly impress me as all-star material.

[YardRat]

Should be working on a trade for McNeil right now.

[X-Era]

Troup and Wang don't exactly impress me as all-star material.

That's my point.

If this team is building solely through the draft, the significant upgrades come through the draft, and that means you need to be hitting on 2 to 3 players every draft. We don't know on these guys yet, but right now they certainly arent significant upgrades and we are playing real games.

[Jan Reimers]

A franchise QB could move us several steps ahead, and make some of these holes seem insignificant.

We are not that far away.

[Extremebillsfan247]

RW ponies up and spend major money in FA. They cannot rely on the draft. Holes at QB, LT, RT, WR, DE, OLB (2), ILB. How many years will it take through the draft?? Even if they hit home runs on every pick you are looking at three years?, minimum? Time for RW to pony up or this team is going to suck for a long time.....:2cents:
Rebuilding is a process that isn't going to happen over night. How many times do you have to hear "It's going to take some time" before it sinks in? Gailey is a good coach, Nix is a good GM, but they are not miracle workers. If your here looking for miracles, you've come to the wrong place. The Bills are on the right path, it doesn't mean they are going to start winning tomorrow. Patience is a thing that is going to be needed here whether we want to exercise that option or not. That's just the way it is. JMO

[Ebenezer]

That's my point.

If this team is building solely through the draft, the significant upgrades come through the draft, and that means you need to be hitting on 2 to 3 players every draft. We don't know on these guys yet, but right now they certainly arent significant upgrades and we are playing real games.
And once they "arrive" and you draft the next slew this group will be free agents.

[Ebenezer]

Rebuilding is a process that isn't going to happen over night. How many times do you have to hear "It's going to take some time" before it sinks in? Gailey is a good coach, Nix is a good GM, but they are not miracle workers. If your here looking for miracles, you've come to the wrong place. The Bills are on the right path, it doesn't mean they are going to start winning tomorrow. Patience is a thing that is going to be needed here whether we want to exercise that option or not. That's just the way it is. JMO
I've been patient since '71. I know what it takes to build a winner. Keep taking the patience route and I'll be as old as RW when they get good.

[X-Era]

And once they "arrive" and you draft the next slew this group will be free agents.

Its an approach that can have limited success. You simply have to add a few signficant upgrades every year in FA to get better. And to your comment, if you don't sign the guys you developed into studs, you end up having to replace them when you still had other needs.

IMO, were missing studs on this teams. I dont need a whole roster full, but we need a few. In the draft, I hope we finally land that franchise QB, and a good looking prospect at T. If we can also add a few upgrades at LB through the draft and/or FA, I will feel much better.

[Ebenezer]

Its an approach that can have limited success. You simply have to add a few signficant upgrades every year in FA to get better. And to your comment, if you don't sign the guys you developed into studs, you end up having to replace them when you still had other needs.

IMO, were missing studs on this teams. I dont need a whole roster full, but we need a few. In the draft, I hope we finally land that franchise QB, and a good looking prospect at T. If we can also add a few upgrades at LB through the draft and/or FA, I will feel much better.
I don't disagree. This team is Jim Kelly, James Lofton, Kent Hull, Howard Ballard, Will Wolford, Bruce Smith, Phil Hansen, a LB corp and Marv Levy away from a SB contending team.

[billz83]

Wilson is toooo cheap to go after quality free agents..people like cornell green get brought in because of wilsonz salvation army approach to running a team..we've needed a good oline and a QB for YEARS..not just this year and im pretty sure people have HADDDDD to ask him to get them but wilsonz response was NOOO..dockery and walker SUCKED and wilson overpaid for them like an idiot..we definitely need to upgrade thru free agency because the bills dont know how to draft..we constantly get busts and injury prone players..when wilson is gone maybe then the bills will spend sum money and get the right players and stop bein cheap as hell.

[Ebenezer]

Wilson is toooo cheap to go after quality free agents..people like cornell green get brought in because of wilsonz salvation army approach to running a team..we've needed a good oline and a QB for YEARS..not just this year and im pretty sure people have HADDDDD to ask him to get them but wilsonz response was NOOO..dockery and walker SUCKED and wilson overpaid for them like an idiot..we definitely need to upgrade thru free agency because the bills dont know how to draft..we constantly get busts and injury prone players..when wilson is gone maybe then the bills will spend sum money and get the right players and stop bein cheap as hell.

Not that I don't agree but you can't contradict yourself in the same post. You say RW is too cheap but then say he overpaid Dockery and Walker. You can't have it both ways.

[TacklingDummy]

so never trade again? never sign a free agent because Dockery didn't work out? Just pointing out that not all trades turn out well.

[Ebenezer]

Just pointing out that not all trades turn out well.

A trade can't work out well unless one trades.

[Jan Reimers]

I think some of our holes will be filled by developing young players such as David Nelson, Shawn Nelson, Steve Johnson, Marcus Easley, Demetrius Bell, Torrel Troup, Alex Carrington, Ed Wang, Aaron Maybin, Chris Ellis, Arthur Moats, Danny Batten, etc.

No, not all of these guys will become players, but some will. We tend to write off young players very quickly here.

But as I've said, what we really need the very most is a top line QB.

[DesertFox24]

Nix said he is going to build through the draft and use the steeler approach to FA, which is sign value FA that are not expensive.

JUST ACCEPT THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE BIG SPENDERS IN FA, please.

They are trying to build this team to be consistent winners and it will take time.

[OpIv37]

I think some of our holes will be filled by developing young players such as David Nelson, Shawn Nelson, Steve Johnson, Marcus Easley, Demetrius Bell, Torrel Troup, Alex Carrington, Ed Wang, Aaron Maybin, Chris Ellis, Arthur Moats, Danny Batten, etc.

No, not all of these guys will become players, but some will. We tend to write off young players very quickly here.

But as I've said, what we really need the very most is a top line QB.

We write off young players too quickly? Then how do you explain John McCargo, Keith Ellison, Ashton Youboty, and Steve Johnson still being on this roster? If anything, I think the previous administration held on to "their guys" far too long. Nix may be trying to change this- at least he dumped Hardy- but the reason it appears as though we write off young players too quickly is because the idiots in our FO picked so many of the wrong guys. A bust is a bust. Most ugly ducklings don't become swans no matter how long you wait.

In addition, this isn't the early 90's anymore- you don't get to keep a guy for his entire career. Let's say, for example, in 2-3 years, Maybin, Troup, Bell and both Nelson's become playmakers. Well, by that time, McKelvin's contract will be up, McGee will retire, Florence will retire and we'll have a major hole at CB. We can draft the replacement at CB, but by the time he's ready, Bell and Maybin's contracts will be up and we'll have to draft their replacements and wait.... and the self-perpetuating cycle of mediocrity continues.

At some point we need to bring in guys who can play NOW. It doesn't matter if they're high round draft picks or needle in the haystack guys later in the draft or trades or FA's- at some point we need guys who can contribute immediately, or else we're just the farm system for the rest of the NFL.

[DraftBoy]

A franchise QB could move us several steps ahead, and make some of these holes seem insignificant.

We are not that far away.

I dont know how you can say that in all honesty...even with our "young players". I think we highly overrate our own talent.

[DesertFox24]

I dont know how you can say that in all honesty...even with our "young players". I think we highly overrate our own talent.

Take Peyton Manning out and the colts are a 6 win team. That is what a franchise QB does for you.

The colts can not stop the run or run the ball.

If Trent does not become the franchise QB (as all signs point to) he is gone and we will be drafting high because we do not have the best talent at all 22 spots and are severally lacking depth, which Nix stated on Monday.

Hate to break this to you guys but maybe Sullivan is right and if we bottom out this year and get Luck it might be the best thing to happen to this organization. We will also have other high picks and we do have some talent.

Mainly the problems on this team are OL (I believe there is talent there), Wood needs to be the center next year, Green needs to be gone, let Cord/Urbik/ battle for RG, Meredith/Wang/Rookie for RT (hopefully Bell is our LT). We need to get better at OLB Ellis might be the answer at strong side but we need a better weak side guy and Kelsay is not that good he got smoked by Ronnie Brown to many times. We also need a TE unless Shawn Nelson becomes that guy.