Here's a theory on Trent and the hurry up offense

[Forward_Lateral]

I just posted a reply in Sal's thread, and it got me thinking. You can't argue that the Bills offense looked it's best when it ran the hurry up style offense vs Miami. Trent looked comfortable running it, and actually looked like a competent QB for 4 minutes of football.

Maybe running the hurry up is what Captain Sideburns needs. Maybe it gives him less time to think about it, and forces him to just throw the football. Maybe he's over-reading and over thinking at the LOS, and scares himself into checking down.

You can't argue that the hurry up offense worked well vs Miami. If I was Gailey, I'd try it early vs Green Bay, and stay with it until they stopped it. Coaching in the NFL is simple, yet complicated. If you find something that a D can't stop, don't stop running it until they do stop it.

Again, I want to re-iterate that I'm not talking about that garbage "no-huddle" they ran last year. I'm talking about a 2 minute drill, hurry up offense that takes defenses completely out of their ability to blitz the QB, and forces them into a softer, beatable Defensive scheme.

[justasportsfan]

If we keep running the no huddle, teams will start gameplanning for that and then Trent will start to panic again. It only worked because the fins weren't expecting it.

[Mahdi]

I just posted a reply in Sal's thread, and it got me thinking. You can't argue that the Bills offense looked it's best when it ran the hurry up style offense vs Miami. Trent looked comfortable running it, and actually looked like a competent QB for 4 minutes of football.

Maybe running the hurry up is what Captain Sideburns needs. Maybe it gives him less time to think about it, and forces him to just throw the football. Maybe he's over-reading and over thinking at the LOS, and scares himself into checking down.

You can't argue that the hurry up offense worked well vs Miami. If I was Gailey, I'd try it early vs Green Bay, and stay with it until they stopped it. Coaching in the NFL is simple, yet complicated. If you find something that a D can't stop, don't stop running it until they do stop it.

Again, I want to re-iterate that I'm not talking about that garbage "no-huddle" they ran last year. I'm talking about a 2 minute drill, hurry up offense that takes defenses completely out of their ability to blitz the QB, and forces them into a softer, beatable Defensive scheme.
Miami was playing prevent and making sure Trent didn't hook up with Lee. Once we scored the TD they went back to playing real defense and shut down Trent again.

[trapezeus]

Trent succeeded because Miami was trying to keep everything in front of them. He wasn't really more successful with a wider array of decisions. he was still just dumping off on 5-8 yard passes.

The roscoe throw was the only one that really covered some ground.

I think they need to show run early, and get some play action in there and reverses to keep defenses from t-ing off. then take some shots down the field.

I think this west coast type of short passes early doesn't work.

[OpIv37]

Trent succeeded because Miami was trying to keep everything in front of them. He wasn't really more successful with a wider array of decisions. he was still just dumping off on 5-8 yard passes.

The roscoe throw was the only one that really covered some ground.

I think they need to show run early, and get some play action in there and reverses to keep defenses from t-ing off. then take some shots down the field.

I think this west coast type of short passes early doesn't work.

That's what I don't understand. We have Captain Checkdown who won't look downfield or go through his progressions. You'd think a quick slant would be his kind of play. Hike, look, throw. I don't know why the Bills can't make it work- maybe because Trent thinks it's Look, Look, Hike, Look, Pat the ball, throw.

[Coach Sal]

...Maybe it gives him less time to think about it, and forces him to just throw the football. Maybe he's over-reading and over thinking at the LOS, and scares himself into checking down....

I think there's something to be said for this.

Trent's always seemed to be at his best when things are in rhythym. That goes for his whole career. I know most QBs are, but it may be true that he's better when he doesn't have to think too much because he OVER THINKS.

The dude went to Stanford and was the QB he was throughout HS and college (even though his team sucked and he wasn't great) probably more because he was smarter than others than because he was more talented.

That doesn't matter as much in the NFL. It's nice to be smarter, but if that talent level isn't good enough, it won't matter, because NFL defenses and the speed of the game and talent level of the players is so much further ahead of the college game.

Guys like Trent - with smarts but not good talent - can't just get by on their brains anymore.

[trapezeus]

i am guessing the slant doesn't work for Trent because you are throwing the ball to a spot more so than an open player. if he reads it wrong, he's definitely laying up a pass into a lb's arms.

it should be used. the ball needs to come out fast when our OL is pass blocking. it needs to come out fast because trent isn't much of a decision maker these days. He doesn't look at the entire field. Perhaps they need him in shot gun some more to give him an extra second.

they should also roll him out some more. he looked most comfortable scanning the field when on the run.

[Mahdi]

That's what I don't understand. We have Captain Checkdown who won't look downfield or go through his progressions. You'd think a quick slant would be his kind of play. Hike, look, throw. I don't know why the Bills can't make it work- maybe because Trent thinks it's Look, Look, Hike, Look, Pat the ball, throw.
Trent hates throwing the slant because he is afraid of a LB buzzing and taking it back for 6. He also doesn't have a high release so it's not a throw that suits him.

Not many throws do suit him which is why I couldn't stand him from the day we drafted him.

[justasportsfan]

That's what I don't understand. We have Captain Checkdown who won't look downfield or go through his progressions. You'd think a quick slant would be his kind of play. Hike, look, throw. I don't know why the Bills can't make it work- maybe because Trent thinks it's Look, Look, Hike, Look, Pat the ball, throw.


It seems like Trent pretends to look down field but already know he's gonna dink it anyways.

If you watched the Chargers game last night, when Rivers made his throws his targets weren't open but got open by the time the ball got there. Trent needs to see his targets open right at the snap before he pulls the trigger.


To Trents defense , he tried to go to Lee when Lee wasn't open and Lee didn't get an interference call. I would keep doing that because it might get a flag or a completion. Instead he would rather take a chance with Nelson just like his last throw. How stupid was that?Talk about gutless.

[ryjam282]

What I want to know is, what happened to the 10-15 yard in routes that I saw so much of in the preseason? Those routes were ran non-stop by Miami on Sunday and have been for years in Arizona with Fitz and Bolden....We don't have these big receivers that are going to out jump anyone. We have little fast guys, let them use their speed and force the corners to chase them across the field, I don't think I saw but one of those routes the whole day.

Sorry, that was a rant. I can't believe how much I hate Edwards these days, he's turned into a younger looking Kelly Holcombe. If the #1 guy is covered, hurry up and dump it off. Granted he doesn't have much time, but come on.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm going to say this right now. Edwards might have gone to Stanford but I don't think he's all that bright.

I think his football IQ is very low. I think he has alot of talent but when it comes to it translating on the field it's not there.

Everybody wants to blame the concussion but it had everything to do with the o-line those first 6 games. After we started getting injuries on it than his play dropped down. He is a pocket passer only. He cannot think on the fly.

I am not a Fitzpatrick fan but I think the offense will operate better with him behind center.

The o-line is going to struggle all year and Edwards is just going to disappoint everyone on this board.

[DraftBoy]

I'm going to say this right now. Edwards might have gone to Stanford but I don't think he's all that bright.

I think his football IQ is very low. I think he has alot of talent but when it comes to it translating on the field it's not there.

Everybody wants to blame the concussion but it had everything to do with the o-line those first 6 games. After we started getting injuries on it than his play dropped down. He is a pocket passer only. He cannot think on the fly.

I am not a Fitzpatrick fan but I think the offense will operate better with him behind center.

The o-line is going to struggle all year and Edwards is just going to disappoint everyone on this board.

Im gonna disagree with you here, I think his Football IQ is extradordinarily high. He knows what to look for and he sees it. The issue with Trent is that he doesnt want to make a mistake, so he holds the ball, he waits too long for throws and lets the D close on them.

Edwards is thinking too much out there.

[DraftBoy]

I think there's something to be said for this.

Trent's always seemed to be at his best when things are in rhythym. That goes for his whole career. I know most QBs are, but it may be true that he's better when he doesn't have to think too much because he OVER THINKS.

The dude went to Stanford and was the QB he was throughout HS and college (even though his team sucked and he wasn't great) probably more because he was smarter than others than because he was more talented.

That doesn't matter as much in the NFL. It's nice to be smarter, but if that talent level isn't good enough, it won't matter, because NFL defenses and the speed of the game and talent level of the players is so much further ahead of the college game.

Guys like Trent - with smarts but not good talent - can't just get by on their brains anymore.


Nail on head, Trent was the same QB in college that he was in HS, and he's the same QB now. A good backup option imo, but not a starter.

[Mahdi]

Im gonna disagree with you here, I think his Football IQ is extradordinarily high. He knows what to look for and he sees it. The issue with Trent is that he doesnt want to make a mistake, so he holds the ball, he waits too long for throws and lets the D close on them.

Edwards is thinking too much out there.
Every indication is that he is a football genius....

[DraftBoy]

Every indication is that he is a football genius....

Football IQ does not always translate to being a great player, see Jason Garrett who has incredible Football IQ but just wasnt a good QB.

People who assume having a high Football IQ means you will play well are making a huge logical leap. Just like being the most athletic player doesn't make you the best.

[justasportsfan]

Im gonna disagree with you here, I think his Football IQ is extradordinarily high. He knows what to look for and he sees it. The issue with Trent is that he doesnt want to make a mistake, so he holds the ball, he waits too long for throws and lets the D close on them.

Edwards is thinking too much out there.


I agree. I think Trent see's what going on but he either doesn't have the confidence in himself to make the throw or doesn't have confidence in his teammates to make a play.

Fitz has the confidence but doesn't have the accuracy.

Bring in Brohm. Time to see if we can develop him with experience. Even if Trent plays better, I don't think he will ever be a qb that can take us to the superbowl.

[Mahdi]

Football IQ does not always translate to being a great player, see Jason Garrett who has incredible Football IQ but just wasnt a good QB.

People who assume having a high Football IQ means you will play well are making a huge logical leap. Just like being the most athletic player doesn't make you the best.
I fully agree. But Trent is so bad that I am convinced he doesn't have a good view of the field as a QB. I don't think he knows how to read a defense and react. It's not only a matter of him being tentative, he also has no sense of where to go with the football when option 1 is not there.

Which is why he rarely throws a slant or a post, QBs throw those passes when they know something about the coverage pre-snap.

[DraftBoy]

I fully agree. But Trent is so bad that I am convinced he doesn't have a good view of the field as a QB. I don't think he knows how to read a defense and react. It's not only a matter of him being tentative, he also has no sense of where to go with the football when option 1 is not there.

Which is why he rarely throws a slant or a post, QBs throw those passes when they know something about the coverage pre-snap.

I disagree with that Ive read interviews he's given and talked with people who were with him at Stanford and he understands football very well. Probably going to be a good coach one day, but execution is his issue, not comprehension.

[TacklingDummy]

I think the problem with Edwards is that he's just not a very good QB.

[trapezeus]

i don't feel like trent "sees whats going on either". This week he totally was focused on only half the field. There were a couple 5 receiver sets the bills ran and he would only look to the more heavily loaded side. It was total regression.

[Mahdi]

I disagree with that Ive read interviews he's given and talked with people who were with him at Stanford and he understands football very well. Probably going to be a good coach one day, but execution is his issue, not comprehension.
Yeah talking with a QB about football and using that knowledge on the field is two different things.

Being smart on the field is different than being smart when you're regurgitating a playbook and talking about football.

Trent is not savvy on the field. He does not make good reads, he does not understand defenses. If he did he wouldn't be as bad as he is. His intelligence would allow him to at least manage a game ala Dilfer.

[justasportsfan]

I would compare Trent to Van Pelt. Smart qb but he just didn't have the skill to cash it in. Although even with anoodle arm, AVP had balls to throw the ball.

[Beebe's Kid]

Miami was playing prevent and making sure Trent didn't hook up with Lee. Once we scored the TD they went back to playing real defense and shut down Trent again.

Odd...the prevent didn't have anybody 15 yds downfield where Roscoe caught a ball behind the defense...

Trent is not an idiot, or a bad QB. Despite all conspiracy theories, there is good reason he is still in the league.

Guys like Favre have no fear. Favre didn't even seem to second guess the pick that ended the Vikes' season...why? Because he makes that throw more often than not, and they wouldn't have been there without it.

Our hurry up was impressive, not because they didn't expect it, or because of prevent, but because Trent make quick decisions and accurate throws. He spread the ball around and gained confidence. I would bet that if we run a draw to Spiller on that drive, it's good for 6.

What's it going to hurt? Do any of you think it's a bad idea, and we should get in there and go toe to toe again? I'll take hurry up and Buffalo Wing looks all day. What good is a 2TE formation, when we don't have 2TE worth a ****?

[TacklingDummy]

Odd...the prevent didn't have anybody 15 yds downfield where Roscoe caught a ball behind the defense...


Blown coverage. I could have made that throw.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah talking with a QB about football and using that knowledge on the field is two different things.

Being smart on the field is different than being smart when you're regurgitating a playbook and talking about football.

Trent is not savvy on the field. He does not make good reads, he does not understand defenses. If he did he wouldn't be as bad as he is. His intelligence would allow him to at least manage a game ala Dilfer.

Again Im going to disagree with you, the issue isn't that he doesnt see it or get it, its that he is too worried about the what if. He knows football, he just is afraid to execute.

[Mahdi]

Odd...the prevent didn't have anybody 15 yds downfield where Roscoe caught a ball behind the defense...

Trent is not an idiot, or a bad QB. Despite all conspiracy theories, there is good reason he is still in the league.

Guys like Favre have no fear. Favre didn't even seem to second guess the pick that ended the Vikes' season...why? Because he makes that throw more often than not, and they wouldn't have been there without it.

Our hurry up was impressive, not because they didn't expect it, or because of prevent, but because Trent make quick decisions and accurate throws. He spread the ball around and gained confidence. I would bet that if we run a draw to Spiller on that drive, it's good for 6.

What's it going to hurt? Do any of you think it's a bad idea, and we should get in there and go toe to toe again? I'll take hurry up and Buffalo Wing looks all day. What good is a 2TE formation, when we don't have 2TE worth a ****?
The commentators broke that play down for you so not sure I need to explain further. I believe they were in a 3 deep coverage which is the opposite of what they were doing the whole game and the DB responsible for his 3rd of the field got caught looking into the backfield when he shouldn't have. Parrish was wide open.

But if that drive makes you believe Trent is "not bad" then more power to you to keep pulling the wool over your eyes.

[Mahdi]

Again Im going to disagree with you, the issue isn't that he doesnt see it or get it, its that he is too worried about the what if. He knows football, he just is afraid to execute.
Ok, he knows football. Then what is he afraid of if he knows where he should throw it? Where he should throw it should be open right? So why be afraid?

Sorry that doesn't fly with me. If he knew where to go then he would not be afraid to put it there because his knowledge of the game would tell him that it would be safe to do so.

I don't think he is the dumbest QB to every play. He has some knowledge of the game of course.

From day one though, my argument is that Trent does not have the ability mentally and physically to make the tough throws that are required in the NFL.

[DraftBoy]

Ok, he knows football. Then what is he afraid of if he knows where he should throw it? Where he should throw it should be open right? So why be afraid?
Sorry that doesn't fly with me. If he knew where to go then he would not be afraid to put it there because his knowledge of the game would tell him that it would be safe to do so.

I don't think he is the dumbest QB to every play. He has some knowledge of the game of course.

From day one though, my argument is that Trent does not have the ability mentally and physically to make the tough throws that are required in the NFL.

He's afraid to make a mistake, its a common mistake in sports at all levels. Just because he made it to the NFL doesn't mean he's immune to that fear.

[Canadian'eh!]

All you Keyboard coaches crack me up. You think you know what's wrong with Trent? You really don't.

The TEAM has issues. IN many areas. I hear about how the OL sucked, and the running game didn't even exist, spiller was going BACKWARDS but Trent was supposed to be great?

He's not Mannning. But come on. They gave him nothing to work with. If you don't protect consistently, then your QB will start to feel pressure that isn't there on plays. They can't look downfield if they can't stop watching the rushers. You can't let the run gain nothing and expect your QB to pass all day.

Does he need to let it go more downfield? Absolutely. He has nothing to lose at this point playing it safe. Is he untalented? no. Too smart? stupid. lack confidence? In ways i'm sure.

But you have to get everything going. Because right now there is too much pressure on the QB, too little running game and the Lee gets too much attention from D's still.

[Forward_Lateral]

You guys are totally missing the point of this thread.

Did, or did Trent not look better running the hurry up than he did all game long?

The answer is obvious.

The question I'm bringing to the table is whether or (why) not they (The Bills) should run the hurry up early and often vs Green Bay.

[Forward_Lateral]

He's afraid to make a mistake, its a common mistake in sports at all levels. Just because he made it to the NFL doesn't mean he's immune to that fear.

The real question is, how can a coach help him over come that?

Is the hurry up offense a way to help Trent?

[DraftBoy]

The real question is, how can a coach help him over come that?

Is the hurry up offense a way to help Trent?

I honestly don't know, the hurry up will only work if Trent isn't afraid to just fling the ball around. He has to be willing to know the pre-snap read is right and make the throw. Not suddenly drop back and be like "Oh ****, what if this gets picked off?" which I honestly think is his issue.

[Mahdi]

All you Keyboard coaches crack me up. You think you know what's wrong with Trent? You really don't.

The TEAM has issues. IN many areas. I hear about how the OL sucked, and the running game didn't even exist, spiller was going BACKWARDS but Trent was supposed to be great?

He's not Mannning. But come on. They gave him nothing to work with. If you don't protect consistently, then your QB will start to feel pressure that isn't there on plays. They can't look downfield if they can't stop watching the rushers. You can't let the run gain nothing and expect your QB to pass all day.

Does he need to let it go more downfield? Absolutely. He has nothing to lose at this point playing it safe. Is he untalented? no. Too smart? stupid. lack confidence? In ways i'm sure.

But you have to get everything going. Because right now there is too much pressure on the QB, too little running game and the Lee gets too much attention from D's still.
It's a chain reaction. If a defense is not worried about what your QB can do then they will stack the box and take away your run game. Trent did nothing to persuade the dolphins to back out of their strategy. He couldn't complete passes and that is why Spiller and the RBs struggled to find room.

Listen to Nix's PC, he said it himself, we need to complete passes to keep defenses honest.

[Forward_Lateral]

I think the hurry up brings a sense of urgency with it, and doesn't give Trent too much time to think.

[justasportsfan]

The question I'm bringing to the table is whether or (why) not they (The Bills) should run the hurry up early and often vs Green Bay.


I would rather we run the ball and keep their O off the field.

[DraftBoy]

I think the hurry up brings a sense of urgency with it, and doesn't give Trent too much time to think.

Agreed, but did he look good because of the system of because he knew what Miami was doing in their prevent? Its a fair question to ask, I think in a perfect vacuum scenario the hurry up is perfect for him, but he won't always know what the opposing D is doing 100% of the time, which I think is his issue. Its a lack of trust in himself to make the plays he needs to make.

[Nighthawk]

Ummm..they ran the hurry up offense as their base offense last year and he still sucked.

[Forward_Lateral]

Ummm..they ran the hurry up offense as their base offense last year and he still sucked.

Learn to read. Last year was a "no huddle" offense. It was far from hurry up.

[Forward_Lateral]

Agreed, but did he look good because of the system of because he knew what Miami was doing in their prevent? Its a fair question to ask, I think in a perfect vacuum scenario the hurry up is perfect for him, but he won't always know what the opposing D is doing 100% of the time, which I think is his issue. Its a lack of trust in himself to make the plays he needs to make.

That's the beauty of the hurry up. It limits Defenses as to what they can do. You can't substitute (unless the Offense subs), you can't really blitz, and you can't really deviate from the same base formation every play.

[DraftBoy]

That's the beauty of the hurry up. It limits Defenses as to what they can do. You can't substitute (unless the Offense subs), you can't really blitz, and you can't really deviate from the same base formation every play.

Yes but either can we in essence. The places this system works best in (and Im going to pull from college so forgive me) are schools like Houston, and Tulsa systems that have a high number of athletic WR's with great YAC ability. They have QB's who make smart accurate throws and can move some as well if a play breaks down.

They also rely a alot on the zone read play to run out of the shotgun. Im not saying Im against the idea but I dont see our offense being well suited for it. Especially our OL who do not appear to be the best conditioned bunch. You typically smaller more agile OL to run a system like this.

[Forward_Lateral]

You make good points. I'm not really an advocate for running all the time, but I'd consider running it if the offense sputtered out of the gates vs Green Bay. Maybe running it a few series, or even one, would allow the O to gain some rhythm.

[Nighthawk]

Learn to read. Last year was a "no huddle" offense. It was far from hurry up.

How did the hurry up look when the Phins went back to their basic defense? That success was due to the prevent defense that Miami was in...don't fool yourself.

[DraftBoy]

You make good points. I'm not really an advocate for running all the time, but I'd consider running it if the offense sputtered out of the gates vs Green Bay. Maybe running it a few series, or even one, would allow the O to gain some rhythm.

I really just want us to run to the boundary more. Every team is going to stack the box and we know Trent won't test them deep so the only alternative is to try and run outside of the box and hit the edge. Im advocating more tosses, sweeps, misdirection and even some endarounds or reverses. Take advantage of a crowded box and make them chase.

[Forward_Lateral]

How did the hurry up look when the Phins went back to their basic defense? That success was due to the prevent defense that Miami was in...don't fool yourself.

I don't think they ran the hurry up at any point after that drive. Tough to run it from your own 1 yard line, especially after successive incompletions.

In fact, I don't think Trent completed a pass after that drive, until the final throw to Nelson, which was ridiculous.

[Forward_Lateral]

I really just want us to run to the boundary more. Every team is going to stack the box and we know Trent won't test them deep so the only alternative is to try and run outside of the box and hit the edge. Im advocating more tosses, sweeps, misdirection and even some endarounds or reverses. Take advantage of a crowded box and make them chase.

I'd agree with this. Even screen plays, but it seems like this team has no idea how to run one.

[Nighthawk]

I really just want us to run to the boundary more. Every team is going to stack the box and we know Trent won't test them deep so the only alternative is to try and run outside of the box and hit the edge. Im advocating more tosses, sweeps, misdirection and even some endarounds or reverses. Take advantage of a crowded box and make them chase.

Agreed...but the Bills should have tested the Miami defense in the middle more. The Bills "strengh" on the OL is in the middle...they should have used it. IMO

Trent hurts our offense in so many ways that is nearly impossible to run a legitimate offensive scheme. He is such a handicap...

[justasportsfan]

Im advocating more tosses, sweeps, misdirection and even some endarounds or reverses. Take advantage of a crowded box and make them chase.


just swtich qb's.

[Forward_Lateral]

just swtich qb's.

I'm also not an advocate of a merry-go-round QB system, but another game like this past Sunday, and I don't see how on earth Gailey can keep Trent in as QB. Heck, another half of that and I'd be willing to bet Trent gets yanked.

[justasportsfan]

I'm also not an advocate of a merry-go-round QB system, but another game like this past Sunday, and I don't see how on earth Gailey can keep Trent in as QB. Heck, another half of that and I'd be willing to bet Trent gets yanked.
I don't mind the merry go round. It's not like I expect to win now anyways. Just find out what Brohm is made of. With Brohm throwing the ball, you also get an idea of what you have in your wr's . With rent back there, you have a bunch of people like TO said, "running routes"

My guess is Gailey enamoured by Trent camp practice. Trent looked pretty good on 7 on 7 drills without anyone chasing him down and the threat of getting hit.

Fewell and AVP knew better what you got from him on gameday.

[Beebe's Kid]

Blown coverage. I could have made that throw.

Blown coverage in Prevent?

[Nighthawk]

Blown coverage in Prevent?

It was a blown coverage...the safety took a step up and Roscoe was at full speed running a go route.

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm giving the play design credit for the TD. Parrish looked like he sort of faked an out route, then blew by the cheating safety or corner, whichever it was.

[BillyT92679]

I think there's something to be said for this.

Trent's always seemed to be at his best when things are in rhythym. That goes for his whole career. I know most QBs are, but it may be true that he's better when he doesn't have to think too much because he OVER THINKS.

The dude went to Stanford and was the QB he was throughout HS and college (even though his team sucked and he wasn't great) probably more because he was smarter than others than because he was more talented.

That doesn't matter as much in the NFL. It's nice to be smarter, but if that talent level isn't good enough, it won't matter, because NFL defenses and the speed of the game and talent level of the players is so much further ahead of the college game.

Guys like Trent - with smarts but not good talent - can't just get by on their brains anymore.
He's a golfer with the yips... stroke thoughts. The game is very instinctual, as gut-centered as brain-centered. Trent's the anti-JP Losman, he goes through progression after read after progression super quickly. If things don't happen right away he assumes the receivers won't get free and/or the line will break down (which it probably will). He anticipates bad things too much. He just needs to relax, and the hurry up might help. It didn't work because Schonert/AVP were not good enough coaches to make it work last year.

[Beebe's Kid]

How did the hurry up look when the Phins went back to their basic defense? That success was due to the prevent defense that Miami was in...don't fool yourself.

I guess I am fooling myself, because I don't remember that? Was the 2nd team in there when we ran the hurry up? I could have sworn that was the same defense that gave us fits all day.

Why were they in the prevent? I don't think that was prevent, not at all, but more like "Holy ****, they're throwing, and we can't stop them, and we can't get to the sideline." The Dolphins had ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to play prevent on Sunday. Zero. They weren't in prevent, which is why we were able to take advantage of them and actually score a TD.

I know that it is more convenient for the "realists" if the hurry up didn't look good, but it did, because it was executed well. It did what a hurry up is supposed to do, by keeping the same players on the field and taking away adjustments.

[Beebe's Kid]

It was a blown coverage...the safety took a step up and Roscoe was at full speed running a go route.

Doesn't prevent indicate that a safety doesn't step towards a WR running full speed at him, but rather keeps him in front of him?

I guess if this is blown coverage, good route, whatever, it worked. We were given 6 points just like when any other team in the NFL exploits "blown coverage" or runs a good route. Roscoe ran, Trent hit him in the hands, in stride, we scored.

I'll take some more of that, please.

I wonder if the safety stepped up because he was a little shocked how easily we were moving the ball?

[TacklingDummy]

Blown coverage in Prevent?
If you have to ask I take it you didn't even see the play.

[Mr. Pink]

It's simple how the drive worked when we were in hurry up...

Miami was playing prevent and not bringing any pressure.

Combine that with a HUGE blown coverage on the Parrish TD and...

Voila!

[Mahdi]

Blown coverage in Prevent?
You still have assignments even if you're playing a soft coverage. It was a 3 deep coverage from Miami and the safety nearest to Parrish took a bad step. He was supposed to drop off and create the umbrella.

[jmb1099]

I think the hurry up brings a sense of urgency with it, and doesn't give Trent too much time to think.
It also doesn't allow defensive substitutions which may also have been a factor.

That being said, his issue is primarily fear based. He doesn't trust his players, and he doesn't trust himself. He is always waiting for the perfect window to throw the ball in and as a result, pats, the ball and ends up sacked. He's got the arm, the knowledge, and even most of the skills, but he just won't pull the trigger.

[Nighthawk]

I guess I am fooling myself, because I don't remember that? Was the 2nd team in there when we ran the hurry up? I could have sworn that was the same defense that gave us fits all day.

Why were they in the prevent? I don't think that was prevent, not at all, but more like "Holy ****, they're throwing, and we can't stop them, and we can't get to the sideline." The Dolphins had ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to play prevent on Sunday. Zero. They weren't in prevent, which is why we were able to take advantage of them and actually score a TD.

I know that it is more convenient for the "realists" if the hurry up didn't look good, but it did, because it was executed well. It did what a hurry up is supposed to do, by keeping the same players on the field and taking away adjustments.

Please tell me you're kidding? Please...

[Nighthawk]

It's simple how the drive worked when we were in hurry up...

Miami was playing prevent and not bringing any pressure.

Combine that with a HUGE blown coverage on the Parrish TD and...

Voila!

Not according to some...

[Michael82]

Is it just me or does Trent Edwards looks very similar to Rob Johnson?

He holds onto the ball too long and takes sacks or hits when he shouldn't.

He isn't willing to just throw the ball in the air for his WRs because he doesn't trust them.

He's worried about his own stats and tries too hard not to make mistakes.

He stares down his receivers too much.

He's very injury prone.

:ill:

[TacklingDummy]

Is it just me or does Trent Edwards looks very similar to Rob Johnson?

He holds onto the ball too long and takes sacks or hits when he shouldn't.

He isn't willing to just throw the ball in the air for his WRs because he doesn't trust them.

He's worried about his own stats and tries too hard not to make mistakes.

He stares down his receivers too much.

He's very injury prone.

:ill:
Robosack had a arm that could throw it over 5 yards.

[DraftBoy]

just swtich qb's.

To who? We have no better option.

As bas Trent is, the other guys are no better.

[Mahdi]

To who? We have no better option.

As bas Trent is, the other guys are no better.
You really believe that Fitz or Brohm can't improve on what Edwards is doing?

With regards to Fitz, he has already proven to be the more effective QB. Both Evans and Owens preferred Fitz so that is not really up for debate.

[unpaid_bills]

the No Huddle works for Trent for 2 reasons

1) The Defense does not have time to scheme and sub in situational players.

2) It forces the QB to read and react (not think too much) it speeds up the game so players like Trent who struggle with traditional formation decision making and game management look actually pretty decent.

The problem is most coaches dont like it and probably feel its short term solution and wont work for the whole game, season. But the Bills of the 90s esentially ran this as their main offense and pretty much dominated the AFC for 4-5 yrs. You can form your own opinion if it would work.

My personal opinion is why not try it at a minimum the fans would like it. Trent is not getting better, so its worth a shot at this point especially with the speed and personnel we have.

[Mr. Pink]

Do people forget that last year we tried the no huddle as the base offense?

How did it work?

It worked Sunday because Miami was in prevent.

[unpaid_bills]

Yes I agree 100% Trent its defintely more mental (and unfortunately mechanics) at this point. All of the NFL Qbs have unbelievable skills and athleticism. They were all starters and stars on their high school and college teams, how many games at QB do you think Trent has played? How many practices has he played, how many hours of film has he watched? My point is some players either have it in games or dont.

He is a bus player looks good getting off that is it. The teams hang on because they dont want egg on their face for drafting him, investing all this time/money, they dont want to proven wrong. There are also some huge ego's involved they the GM and coaches want to prove all the critics (and fans) wrong they can develop the next Drew Breees, etc.

Plain and simple its just not going to happen with Trent he has way too many weaknesses in games and in the injury prone issue he will never be an above average QB. The really frustrating part if the fans and critics can see this why on earth doesnt the front office?


Is it just me or does Trent Edwards looks very similar to Rob Johnson?

He holds onto the ball too long and takes sacks or hits when he shouldn't.

He isn't willing to just throw the ball in the air for his WRs because he doesn't trust them.

He's worried about his own stats and tries too hard not to make mistakes.

He stares down his receivers too much.

He's very injury prone.

:ill:

[unpaid_bills]

Yes I agree 100% Trent its defintely more mental (and unfortunately mechanics) at this point. All of the NFL Qbs have unbelievable skills and athleticism. They were all starters and stars on their high school and college teams, how many games at QB do you think Trent has played? How many practices has he played, how many hours of film has he watched? My point is some players either have it in games or dont.

He is a bus player looks good getting off that is it. The teams hang on because they dont want egg on their face for drafting him, investing all this time/money, they dont want to proven wrong. There are also some huge ego's involved they the GM and coaches want to prove all the critics (and fans) wrong they can develop the next Drew Breees, etc.

Plain and simple its just not going to happen with Trent he has way too many weaknesses in games and in the injury prone issue he will never be an above average QB. The really frustrating part if the fans and critics can see this why on earth doesnt the front office? Frootball is not "rocket science"


Is it just me or does Trent Edwards looks very similar to Rob Johnson?

He holds onto the ball too long and takes sacks or hits when he shouldn't.

He isn't willing to just throw the ball in the air for his WRs because he doesn't trust them.

He's worried about his own stats and tries too hard not to make mistakes.

He stares down his receivers too much.

He's very injury prone.

:ill:

[Mahdi]

the No Huddle works for Trent for 2 reasons

1) The Defense does not have time to scheme and sub in situational players.

2) It forces the QB to read and react (not think too much) it speeds up the game so players like Trent who struggle with traditional formation decision making and game management look actually pretty decent.

The problem is most coaches dont like it and probably feel its short term solution and wont work for the whole game, season. But the Bills of the 90s esentially ran this as their main offense and pretty much dominated the AFC for 4-5 yrs. You can form your own opinion if it would work.

My personal opinion is why not try it at a minimum the fans would like it. Trent is not getting better, so its worth a shot at this point especially with the speed and personnel we have.
I guarantee you right now that if we went no huddle or hurry up DCs would shut it down quickly. Miami was caught napping (Trent will do that to you) and playing prevent at the end of the game which is why the hurry up was so effective. They dropped back in coverage and gave Trent the short throws he loves.

We continued with the spread after that drive and got nowhere with it because Miami came right back to crowding the LoS and taking away his short targets and that was the end of the game.

Hurry up or take your time makes no difference. Trent looks for the same throws no matter how you do it and any defense will shut that down.

[unpaid_bills]

good point. However was our "regular" offense sucessful or able to sustain a drive, etc. We were ranked in the bottom of most categories. The no huddle works because teams arent ready for it, etc. It wont work against every team and for every team. We actually have speed and the personnel i think it would work. The players we have cant execute what is called so why not at least try it?


Do people forget that last year we tried the no huddle as the base offense?

How did it work?

It worked Sunday because Miami was in prevent.

[Mr. Pink]

good point. However was our "regular" offense sucessful or able to sustain a drive, etc. We were ranked in the bottom of most categories. The no huddle works because teams arent ready for it, etc. It wont work against every team and for every team. We actually have speed and the personnel i think it would work. The players we have cant execute what is called so why not at least try it?


What this team needs to do is to keep the ball out of Trent Edwards, or any of the three 3 bum QBs, hands as much as possible. Pound the ball on the ground and call a few play actions here and there.

Even if the play action ends up being a 2 yard dumpoff in the flat, a player will be open and be able to make a play.

At the very worst we should be 50/50 on run vs pass but I think it should be closer to 60/40 run...after all the main goal is to win and by being more run heavy this team has a greater chance of success.

[better days]

I would compare Trent to Van Pelt. Smart qb but he just didn't have the skill to cash it in. Although even with anoodle arm, AVP had balls to throw the ball.

I would compare Fitz to Van Pelt myself. He knows what to do, he just can't do it. I think Fitz would make a better coach than Trent myself.

[unpaid_bills]

The "spread" offense is not the same as no huddle. I dont disagree why it worked in that particular sitiuation. On the other hand if you do run it more during the game the defense does have to adjust and play out of their comfort zone. In the course of a game it will slow them down and effect their pass rush. They will eventually figure it out but in the meantime you will score points something we are not doing the past several years is all. Dont get me wrong I 100% beleive it would eventually blow up and fail miserably with Trent at QB he cant be a great QB in any offense. Hell I cant even get him to work in Madden the video game that should be enough right there.

What i am saying is the why not give it a shot for more of the game (not just the last 2 min) If it works stick with it. If a team is scheming against it go back to the same vanilla offense with Capt Checkdown throwing screen passes into the turf and getting knocked off his rocker



I guarantee you right now that if we went no huddle or hurry up DCs would shut it down quickly. Miami was caught napping (Trent will do that to you) and playing prevent at the end of the game which is why the hurry up was so effective. They dropped back in coverage and gave Trent the short throws he loves.

We continued with the spread after that drive and got nowhere with it because Miami came right back to crowding the LoS and taking away his short targets and that was the end of the game.

Hurry up or take your time makes no difference. Trent looks for the same throws no matter how you do it and any defense will shut that down.

[unpaid_bills]

Also if you look at the history of the NFL teams that have went from horrible to much more competive and tough offenses to stop had a "gadget offense"

Miami with the wildcat
St Louis greatest show on turf
Arizona Cards they never ran the ball chucked it 40-50 times per game with a 40+ yr old QB
New Orleans Saints past few seasons (they run a spread offense, lots of gadget plays)
Bills of the 90s no huddle

How can you see the no huddle or some type of gadget offense doesnt work It works every year for the teams that try it.




What this team needs to do is to keep the ball out of Trent Edwards, or any of the three 3 bum QBs, hands as much as possible. Pound the ball on the ground and call a few play actions here and there.

Even if the play action ends up being a 2 yard dumpoff in the flat, a player will be open and be able to make a play.

At the very worst we should be 50/50 on run vs pass but I think it should be closer to 60/40 run...after all the main goal is to win and by being more run heavy this team has a greater chance of success.

[Mr. Pink]

Also if you look at the history of the NFL teams that have went from horrible to much more competive and tough offenses to stop had a "gadget offense"

Miami with the wildcat
St Louis greatest show on turf
Arizona Cards they never ran the ball chucked it 40-50 times per game with a 40+ yr old QB
New Orleans Saints past few seasons (they run a spread offense, lots of gadget plays)
Bills of the 90s no huddle

How can you see the no huddle or some type of gadget offense doesnt work It works every year for the teams that try it.

Because Trent Edwards is not Chad Pennington, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner or Jim Kelly mainly.

You play to the strength of your roster.

What this team should do on offense is take the approach the Ravens did when they had Jamal Lewis. Just keep running the ball and then hope to get a semblance of competent QB play.

[Mahdi]

The "spread" offense is not the same as no huddle. I dont disagree why it worked in that particular sitiuation. On the other hand if you do run it more during the game the defense does have to adjust and play out of their comfort zone. In the course of a game it will slow them down and effect their pass rush. They will eventually figure it out but in the meantime you will score points something we are not doing the past several years is all. Dont get me wrong I 100% beleive it would eventually blow up and fail miserably with Trent at QB he cant be a great QB in any offense. Hell I cant even get him to work in Madden the video game that should be enough right there.

What i am saying is the why not give it a shot for more of the game (not just the last 2 min) If it works stick with it. If a team is scheming against it go back to the same vanilla offense with Capt Checkdown throwing screen passes into the turf and getting knocked off his rocker
Where did I say the spread offense is the same as the no huddle. Obviously you can huddle and run a spread offense....


What I meant was we continued trying to spread them out and run a hurry up but they caught on and shut it down the next drive.

[Mad Max]

Also if you look at the history of the NFL teams that have went from horrible to much more competive and tough offenses to stop had a "gadget offense"

Miami with the wildcat
St Louis greatest show on turf
Arizona Cards they never ran the ball chucked it 40-50 times per game with a 40+ yr old QB
New Orleans Saints past few seasons (they run a spread offense, lots of gadget plays)
Bills of the 90s no huddle

How can you see the no huddle or some type of gadget offense doesnt work It works every year for the teams that try it.

Any offense can work with the correct personnel in place to run it. The three teams you mention above which had real success, had Brees, Warner, and Kelly running the show. Three of the best QB's in NFL history.

They made those offenses happen. Kelly called his own plays in the K-Gun. Could you imagine Trent with that sort of responsibility on his shoulders? He already folds like a pup tent.

Listen at this point we have nothing to lose, try ANYTHING. Just don't set your expectations too high.

[justasportsfan]

To who? We have no better option.

As bas Trent is, the other guys are no better.


It can be argued that the team was better with Fitz at qb when he came in. last year. He wasn't that much better but at least he tried. Trent doesn't try. He quits.


Thing is, neither Trent nor Fitz are gonna amount to anything other than being back ups which is why I would like to at least try to see what we have in Brohm.

It's a hard situation. We want to win now but even if Trent plays better, we know he's not a qb that will ever take us to the sb. On the flipside if we start Brohm, we're pretty much trying to use the season to gauge him thus giving up on the season. However, I can't see Brohm being any worse than Trent. He will throw that ball when a deep play is called.

IMO, in time Gaileys trust in Edwards will subside into "he was nothing more than a camp qb".

If Trent stinks it up vs. GB. Make the switch.

[justasportsfan]

Robosack had a arm that could throw it over 5 yards.


It can be argued that Trent has the arm but refuses to use it just like Robosack. Rob's favorite target was dumping it to Larry Centers.

[DraftBoy]

It can be argued that the team was better with Fitz at qb when he came in. last year. He wasn't that much better but at least he tried. Trent doesn't try. He quits.


Thing is, neither Trent nor Fitz are gonna amount to anything other than being back ups which is why I would like to at least try to see what we have in Brohm.

It's a hard situation. We want to win now but even if Trent plays better, we know he's not a qb that will ever take us to the sb. On the flipside if we start Brohm, we're pretty much trying to use the season to gauge him thus giving up on the season. However, I can't see Brohm being any worse than Trent. He will throw that ball when a deep play is called.

IMO, in time Gaileys trust in Edwards will subside into "he was nothing more than a camp qb".

If Trent stinks it up vs. GB. Make the switch.


No reason to switch, I dont think we were any better with Fitz and I have zero blind faith in Brohm.

The argument to switch just for the sake of switching has been used WAY too often by this fan base in recent years.