Wake up, QB is not the fix alone and will change very little.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm sorry but people need to get real with what their expectations.

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart. Furthermore, just look at week 1 if you think the answer is solely on the QB:

Bradford: 53 QB Rating 3 picks, 1 TD

Matt Ryan: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Joe Flacco: 62 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Chad Hennne: 75 QB Rating O picks, O TDs

Matt Schaub: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez: 56 QB Rating 0 pick, 0 TDs

Alex Simth: 52 QB Rating 2 picks, O TDs

The funny part is Flacco, Henne, Schaub won and Ryan lost in overtime. They have complete teams. We don't.

We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.

We lose and you guys go on and on about the QB. Yes, Edwards didn't have a good game but he played better than the list above.

So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?

I'd rather build the line lines and get some talent before we waste a pick on Matt Leinart.

[PromoTheRobot]

Any new QB would get killed behind our line as it is right now.

PTR

[HHURRICANE]

By the way, I am in no way endorsing Edwards play or suggesting he is a long term answer.

I'm merely saying that insert your favorite QB and the result will be similar.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Schaub, Flacco, and Ryan all had very good seasons last year. You selected to add them off a bad game

[HHURRICANE]

Schaub, Flacco, and Ryan all had very good seasons last year. You selected to add them off a bad game

Yeah, my point exactly. First game of the year.

[Philagape]

If a team wants to get better, it needs to replace its bad players with better ones.

QB is one of those needs. There are other needs, and we all know that, but QB is unquestionably one of them.

So I don't see what the point is, other than the daily downplayTrent'sfailures thread.

[Philagape]

Yeah, my point exactly. First game of the year.

Are you trying to suggest it was an aberration for Edwards? Seriously?

[trapezeus]

the numbers game is tough with trent. he was gifted 100+ yards in a prevent defense. i didn't watch the other games. but schaub had a RB run for 200+ yards. No need for gaudy numbers.

Flacco played the best defense in the NFL and being at the game, i can say he was giving his WR's a chance to make a play on the ball. Our QB didn't even try to do that.

The numbers are definitely close, but basing it solely on the numbers without knowing what you know from watching the game is a dangerous game.

Edwards had a very bad game and displayed very weak leadership skills in a game that was still available for the taking with under 2 minutes to play. That's a huge negative in my book.

[Philagape]

the numbers game is tough with trent. he was gifted 100+ yards in a prevent defense. i didn't watch the other games. but schaub had a RB run for 200+ yards. No need for gaudy numbers.

Flacco played the best defense in the NFL and being at the game, i can say he was giving his WR's a chance to make a play on the ball. Our QB didn't even try to do that.

The numbers are definitely close, but basing it solely on the numbers without knowing what you know from watching the game is a dangerous game.

Edwards had a very bad game and displayed very weak leadership skills in a game that was still available for the taking with under 2 minutes to play. That's a huge negative in my book.

Thank you. One can make an argument from stats without watching a single game. Stats are bull****

[better days]

I'm sorry but people need to get real with what their expectations.

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart. Furthermore, just look at week 1 if you think the answer is solely on the QB:

Bradford: 53 QB Rating 3 picks, 1 TD

Matt Ryan: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Joe Flacco: 62 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Chad Hennne: 75 QB Rating O picks, O TDs

Matt Schaub: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez: 56 QB Rating 0 pick, 0 TDs

Alex Simth: 52 QB Rating 2 picks, O TDs

The funny part is Flacco, Henne, Schaub won and Ryan lost in overtime. They have complete teams. We don't.

We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.

We lose and you guys go on and on about the QB. Yes, Edwards didn't have a good game but he played better than the list above.

So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?

I'd rather build the line lines and get some talent before we waste a pick on Matt Leinart.

Well if they draft an OT there is no guarantee they don't end up with a Mike Williams or Robert Gailery.

[Mad Max]

...................

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart.................



No there isn't, but we may end up with a guy who takes us to 3 Super Bowl victorys. One thing is certain, Trent isn't that guy.




We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.


We are not talentless. Some of these guys are going to come around.



So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?


First off, the new CBA is almost guaranteed to include a rookie salary cap, so the $100mm not going to happen. Secondly, we MUST take a chance on a QB...because it may not end with that position, but it most certainly begins with it.

[topher180]

I'm sorry but people need to get real with what their expectations.

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart. Furthermore, just look at week 1 if you think the answer is solely on the QB:

Bradford: 53 QB Rating 3 picks, 1 TD

Matt Ryan: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Joe Flacco: 62 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Chad Hennne: 75 QB Rating O picks, O TDs

Matt Schaub: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez: 56 QB Rating 0 pick, 0 TDs

Alex Simth: 52 QB Rating 2 picks, O TDs

The funny part is Flacco, Henne, Schaub won and Ryan lost in overtime. They have complete teams. We don't.

We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.

We lose and you guys go on and on about the QB. Yes, Edwards didn't have a good game but he played better than the list above.

So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?

I'd rather build the line lines and get some talent before we waste a pick on Matt Leinart.

Well, you are way off base as usuall but at least you are consistent HH. You also stick to your guns so props to you on that (even if your guns misfire)

This is yet another thread that is disguised to sound factual and unbiased but really screams "Trent can do it! If only he (insert excuse) he would play better".

Your examples are skewed because they take only a small sample size when a lot of them have larger bodies of work. I started to break down how wrong this all is, but then I realized that it's not worth the effort because you will still post 10 threads a day of nonsense, and grasp at this idea that we don't need a real signal caller. Instead, I will just pose these simple questions...

What constitutes as a "complete" team? So, San Fran is complete? How so?

Your stats are from one game, thus leading to your claim that Edwards played better. What if you accounted for last season, factoring not just stats but also playoff appearances. Is Trent still "better" in that case? Has his career been better than Ryan or Flacco's?

Finally, by saying that we could spend tons of money on a first round QB pick next year, are you insinuating we just give up? Not ever draft a QB again a just hope we get lucky in FA or that one of our guys turns into a Pro Bowler overnight?

[Nighthawk]

You need a QB before you focus on the OL. Without a good QB, the OL doesn't matter. QB is by far the biggest part of a team's success...the Bills situation is no different. They need a QB and then they need to fix the OL...

[Mahdi]

I'm sorry but people need to get real with what their expectations.

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart. Furthermore, just look at week 1 if you think the answer is solely on the QB:

Bradford: 53 QB Rating 3 picks, 1 TD

Matt Ryan: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Joe Flacco: 62 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Chad Hennne: 75 QB Rating O picks, O TDs

Matt Schaub: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez: 56 QB Rating 0 pick, 0 TDs

Alex Simth: 52 QB Rating 2 picks, O TDs

The funny part is Flacco, Henne, Schaub won and Ryan lost in overtime. They have complete teams. We don't.

We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.

We lose and you guys go on and on about the QB. Yes, Edwards didn't have a good game but he played better than the list above.

So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?

I'd rather build the line lines and get some talent before we waste a pick on Matt Leinart.
Bradford, Flacco, Henne, Schaub and Ryan all played better games than Edwards. Passer rating means absolutely nothing when comparing the performances of these QBs.

Yards per attempt is a much better measuring stick. It shows they completed passes downfield and for first downs. Granted none of these QBs had great days which would be over 7.5 ypa but they were much better than Edwards.

Flacco -- 6.5

Schaub -- 6.3

Ryan -- 5.7

Henne -- 5.4

Smith -- 5.0

Bradford -- 4.6

Edwards -- 4.1


On top of that, Flacco, Schaub, Ryan and Henne all played against the top pass defenses in the NFL (Jets, Colts, Steelers, Bills). Edwards played against one of the worst pass defenses in the Dolphins.


No one is saying a rookie QB will solve our problems. But a rookie QB is indeed part of the solution to becoming a respectable franchise at some point. Fans want to know if Brohm can be that guy, if not, we move on to the draft.

Now, if we had, say, Rodgers playing QB for the Bills, you better believe we would have won Sunday and we would probably reach at least 8-8 while developing the talent we have on offense and building a future. Trent is holding everyone's progress back and in some cases even regressing some of the offensive players progress.

[ddaryl]

I bet dollars to doughnuts we could put in about 20 different QB's and we would have had more then 160 yds of offense last week.

[TacklingDummy]

The Jets supposedly have all the pieces in place. I guess that's another example of how important the QB position is.

[TacklingDummy]

You need a QB before you focus on the OL. Without a good QB, the OL doesn't matter. QB is by far the biggest part of a team's success...the Bills situation is no different. They need a QB and then they need to fix the OL...
Isn't it amazing how good teams become once they have a franchise QB behind center?

[Beebe's Kid]

Well there it is, boys. Trent is better than all the guys on that list.

Trent, Trent he's our man, if he can't do it, HH will post 375 threads every week trying to convince you he can!!

I know you say he's not the guy in your follow up post, but this is salesman bull****. If you were honest, then what the **** is the point of your original post?

I agree with what you said about drafting a QB. I agree, wholeheartedly. I also have a problem with the fact that Ryan is not in his 3rd year, and he is still on "potential." How awesome will that be...sometime in the next 4-5 years we may have a marginally good QB that is loaded with potential.

To list all of the stats for all of the other QBs is bull****. Post the top 10 games stats of all of their careers. Then we'll look at that stats.

[more cowbell]

It's easy to blame one person for a loss.

That's why no one on this board is on an NFL staff...

[Mahdi]

The Jets supposedly have all the pieces in place. I guess that's another example of how important the QB position is.
Perfect example. They have one of the best OL in the league, best defense in the league, strong Rbs and WRs and an athletic receiving TE. Still can't put up more than a few points a game.

I think the Jets will win their fair share of games this year but Sanchez playing like he is won't take them past a certain point. That team should be looking for a vet QB right now and taking a shot at the Super Bowl ala 2000 Ravens.

[Philagape]

It's easy to blame one person for a loss.

That's why no one on this board is on an NFL staff...

A close loss can turn on any one of a number of factors. Edwards was one of them.

[HHURRICANE]

but schaub had a RB run for 200+ yards. No need for gaudy numbers.



I think the 38 yards of rushing really helped our passing game.

[Mad Max]

I think the 38 yards of rushing really helped our passing game.

Come on HH. Miami was having a party at the LOS trying to stop the run..you think that had anything to do with the 38 yards? Here's a thought what if Edwards completed a few downfield to break that party up?

[Novacane]

By the way, I am in no way endorsing Edwards play or suggesting he is a long term answer.

.



:bs:

[Novacane]

It's easy to blame one person for a loss.

That's why no one on this board is on an NFL staff...



The ones making excuses for Trent are not on any NFL staff either are they!

[HHURRICANE]

Come on HH. Miami was having a party at the LOS trying to stop the run..you think that had anything to do with the 38 yards? Here's a thought what if Edwards completed a few downfield to break that party up?


So the running game is dependant on Edwards but the passing game is independant of the running game.

I'm just curious how many teams win games with 38 yards of rushing?

[lightningbolt444]

You need a QB before you focus on the OL. Without a good QB, the OL doesn't matter. QB is by far the biggest part of a team's success...the Bills situation is no different. They need a QB and then they need to fix the OL...

Your right that without a qb the OL doesnt matter but a qb CANNOT do anything in this league without an OL this game is won and lost in the trenchs not at the qb spot...... I want a new qb but we cannot draft one then throw him behind this line or we will have a Trent V2.0 there are MANY MANY good qbs that have been ruined or at least stunted by trying to take over a crappy team to soon.

[Mad Max]

So the running game is dependant on Edwards but the passing game is independant of the running game.

I'm just curious how many teams win games with 38 yards of rushing?

Hand in hand my friend, you know that. If he completes a few mid range balls earlier on in the game (to punish their gameplan of stacking the box), I think the running game would have sorted itself out.

[X-Era]

I'm sorry but people need to get real with what their expectations.

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart. Furthermore, just look at week 1 if you think the answer is solely on the QB:

Bradford: 53 QB Rating 3 picks, 1 TD

Matt Ryan: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Joe Flacco: 62 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Chad Hennne: 75 QB Rating O picks, O TDs

Matt Schaub: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez: 56 QB Rating 0 pick, 0 TDs

Alex Simth: 52 QB Rating 2 picks, O TDs

The funny part is Flacco, Henne, Schaub won and Ryan lost in overtime. They have complete teams. We don't.

We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.

We lose and you guys go on and on about the QB. Yes, Edwards didn't have a good game but he played better than the list above.

So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?

I'd rather build the line lines and get some talent before we waste a pick on Matt Leinart.

Its all, not some. We need it all, we need that quality OL, TE, elite WR...

Use your high pick to get the best possible QB. Develop that LT who could end up being the next Peters (who struggled mightily in his first few years I might add). Draft additional lineman, draft a new WR.

You imply drafting a high QB excludes adding other upgrades, it doesnt.

We only have one 1st rounder, and a lot of needs. Spend it one the QB. If your an advocate of moving up into the 1st for other positions too, fine.

Fact is, this is the framework we were given, and in this methodlogy, you better draft a franchise QB and early to get the best shot at a good one.

[X-Era]

By the way, I am in no way endorsing Edwards play or suggesting he is a long term answer.

I'm merely saying that insert your favorite QB and the result will be similar.

For one year, probably, but if that QB develops beyond Edwards, were better.

And that LT can be added as well either through a lower pick or by developing a young guy.

[HHURRICANE]

Hand in hand my friend, you know that. If he completes a few mid range balls earlier on in the game (to punish their gameplan of stacking the box), I think the running game would have sorted itself out.

Spiller, Jackson, and Lynch, the supposed strength of our team, ran for 38 total yards.

But you want me to believe that Edwards, not the o-line, is responsible for the horrible performance on the ground?

Again, the point of the thread wasn't to defend Edwards, who certainly didn't do anything, but to point out that this team has problems that go way deeper than QB.

You guys are dreaming if you think any QB comes in here and fixes things. Jim Kelly had a phenomenal first year here in Buffalo. Our record that year: 4-12.

So a hall of fame player with two years of pro experience showed up and took us to a 4-12 record.

[X-Era]

Isn't it amazing how good teams become once they have a franchise QB behind center?

Pitt supposedly has a worse line than ours yet are competitive every year.

[lightningbolt444]

Pitt supposedly has a worse line than ours yet are competitive every year.

No not the case pitts line is not near as bad as ours and hasnt been for a few years.

[HHURRICANE]

Pitt supposedly has a worse line than ours yet are competitive every year.

Their o-line is not worse than ours. That's just not true. It's certainly not as good as in previous years but our o-line is considered by many around the league to be the worst in football.

I keep hearing how good Levitre will be but he is struggling mightily. It's the same love we show POZ who continues to disappoint.

Cornell Green is absolutely horrible. Our best player seems to be Hangartner, at this point.

[X-Era]

No not the case pitts line is not near as bad as ours and hasnt been for a few years.
Really? That's isn't the sentiment at all from the Pitt fans who think their line is the worst in football.

Then of course you have the Colts who went to the SB last year, and just cut the guy they drafted to be their LT.

I'm not arguing that our OL doesn't need improvement. I'm arguing that there is no bigger need on this team than at QB and it must be addressed as soon as possible and that's at the top of our draft next year.

[lightningbolt444]

Their o-line is not worse than ours. That's just not true. It's certainly not as good as in previous years but our o-line is considered by many around the league to be the worst in football.

I keep hearing how good Levitre will be but he is struggling mightily. It's the same love we show POZ who continues to disappoint.

Cornell Green is absolutely horrible. Our best player seems to be Hangartner, at this point.

Our line is awful their are two spots to me that are ok and thats LT and RG I know many will say we need a LT but give the guy some time just because he waasnt selected in the first round doesnt mean he will be a bust......

[topher180]

Well HH you clearly aren't going to answer my questions, again, consistent. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
How about this. Name the best teams in the league right now. I'm talking teams it's hard to argue about, teams in which the general consensus from everyone is that they are good. Reference the last 3 or 4 years.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Hmmmmm....what do the Saints, Chargers, Vikings, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Packers...just to name a few...all have in common? Oh! That's right, GOOD QUARTERBACKS. It's really pretty simple. Teams that have succeeded without that are very much an anomaly. There will be exceptions, there is to everything. But this hope that the freaking Buffalo Bills can be an exception with a talent deficient roster is just preposterous. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
They've tried to replace Kelly, a great QB, since he left. They have failed. Why settle and stop trying? It sucks, but that's why we've been "rebuilding" forever...we are rebuilding on a crummy foundation. Why put stock into someone who clearly doesn't have "it". Just like JP didn't have it, just like Rob Johnson, and so forth. WE NEED A QB, period, point blank.<o:p></o:p>

[X-Era]

Their o-line is not worse than ours. That's just not true. It's certainly not as good as in previous years but our o-line is considered by many around the league to be the worst in football.

I keep hearing how good Levitre will be but he is struggling mightily. It's the same love we show POZ who continues to disappoint.

Cornell Green is absolutely horrible. Our best player seems to be Hangartner, at this point.

I shouldn't have brought it up. It doesn't matter.

There is no bigger need on this team than a franchise QB. The Bills wont trade for one, they wont sign one, so its the draft. And the very top is where you get your best shot to get one.

[topher180]

I shouldn't have brought it up. It doesn't matter.

There is no bigger need on this team than a franchise QB. The Bills wont trade for one, they wont sign one, so its the draft. And the very top is where you get your best shot to get one.

Great, concise post. No suprise because you are Buffalo and SU sports fan.

Yes I'm a homer and am aware of it, go kick rocks.

[trapezeus]

Spiller, Jackson, and Lynch, the supposed strength of our team, ran for 38 total yards.

But you want me to believe that Edwards, not the o-line, is responsible for the horrible performance on the ground?

Again, the point of the thread wasn't to defend Edwards, who certainly didn't do anything, but to point out that this team has problems that go way deeper than QB.

You guys are dreaming if you think any QB comes in here and fixes things. Jim Kelly had a phenomenal first year here in Buffalo. Our record that year: 4-12.

So a hall of fame player with two years of pro experience showed up and took us to a 4-12 record.

on very few carries. i feel like the bills have constantly abandoned the run immediately. i don't care if you go 3 and out early as you try to establish the run. at the very least you are opening up play action. you can get people sleeping on t-ing off.

but when they give up after a couple run plays and feel like they need to throw it continuously, defenses don't buy anything. and they are coming after trent full speed, they've blanketed the receivers, the space is cut...it's a nightmare.

that was the coaching aspect. it was a poorly called game.

[Commissioner]

I'm sorry but people need to get real with what their expectations.

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart. Furthermore, just look at week 1 if you think the answer is solely on the QB:

Bradford: 53 QB Rating 3 picks, 1 TD

Matt Ryan: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Joe Flacco: 62 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Chad Hennne: 75 QB Rating O picks, O TDs

Matt Schaub: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez: 56 QB Rating 0 pick, 0 TDs

Alex Simth: 52 QB Rating 2 picks, O TDs

The funny part is Flacco, Henne, Schaub won and Ryan lost in overtime. They have complete teams. We don't.

We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.

We lose and you guys go on and on about the QB. Yes, Edwards didn't have a good game but he played better than the list above.

So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?

I'd rather build the line lines and get some talent before we waste a pick on Matt Leinart.

This is what I've been trying to say.... Trent may not be the answer. But he's not the only reason why we lost the last game. People are placing all the blame on him right now... and i don't see it as justified at the moment.

[X-Era]

This is what I've been trying to say.... Trent may not be the answer. But he's not the only reason why we lost the last game. People are placing all the blame on him right now... and i don't see it as justified at the moment.

I'm not placing all the blame on him, he's simply not the answer at the most critical position. That makes replacing him priority 1.

As I said before, the draft isn't one round long and our plan appears to be to try to get 2 to 3 starters out of each draft.

Its going to take time and the Bills appear to be in no rush.

[Philagape]

Blaming one factor in a close loss is not putting ALL of the blame on that factor.

I'll try to put it yet another way.

If Trent had played better, the Bills win.
That can be said of other factors as well. But it doesn't make it any less true of Trent!

So when people blame Trent, they are correct, but that doesn't mean they're saying nothing else went wrong.

[topher180]

This is what I've been trying to say.... Trent may not be the answer. But he's not the only reason why we lost the last game. People are placing all the blame on him right now... and i don't see it as justified at the moment.

I can't believe this. This is real, it's really out there...this sentiment.

It's a team sport. It's not golf. Of course there is more than 1 person to blame. But when you and others say stuff like this you are justifying his ineptitude and poor play.

Again, we know what Trent is and isn't already. I don't know how anyone could watch those football games and not know that.

And by the way, people act like he was a world beater when the Bills went 4-0 to open the season. He was efficent and made plays, but even THEN he wasn't great.

Enough already.

[HHURRICANE]

Well HH you clearly aren't going to answer my questions, again, consistent. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
How about this. Name the best teams in the league right now. I'm talking teams it's hard to argue about, teams in which the general consensus from everyone is that they are good. Reference the last 3 or 4 years.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Hmmmmm....what do the Saints, Chargers, Vikings, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Packers...just to name a few...all have in common? Oh! That's right, GOOD QUARTERBACKS. It's really pretty simple. Teams that have succeeded without that are very much an anomaly. There will be exceptions, there is to everything. But this hope that the freaking Buffalo Bills can be an exception with a talent deficient roster is just preposterous. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
They've tried to replace Kelly, a great QB, since he left. They have failed. Why settle and stop trying? It sucks, but that's why we've been "rebuilding" forever...we are rebuilding on a crummy foundation. Why put stock into someone who clearly doesn't have "it". Just like JP didn't have it, just like Rob Johnson, and so forth. WE NEED A QB, period, point blank.<o:p></o:p>

I'm not arguing that a franchise QB doesn't make a team better. Look what Brady has done for that team.

What I am saying is that this site thinks that replacing the QB automaticallly gets us wins. We have an undrafted WR as our best #2 option and no TE to speak of. Add a RT that would most likely not make another roster, a LT that is still hurt and not very good...yet, and an interior line that has yet to prove they can run block, and I wonder what magic QB is going to change things.

I agree that Edwards is not the answer at QB but it's not as easy as replace him and we win games. We still miss Peters, Dockery, Butler, and Walker and supposedly they sucked. Well they look world class next to this line.

[Philagape]

What I am saying is that this site thinks that replacing the QB automaticallly gets us wins.

It would have against Miami.

[HHURRICANE]

I can't believe this. This is real, it's really out there...this sentiment.

It's a team sport.

He threw for a TD and had no picks. He didn't excatly lose the game. He could have played better and won the game for us. No argument there.

But to act like he's the only reason we lost is just ridiculous. If he threw 3 picks and caused a lead change, etc. than he certainly could be blamed.

[HHURRICANE]

It would have against Miami.


That's just BS. You can't say that anymore than I can say that if our RBs had ran for 100 yards we could have won the game.

[HHURRICANE]

It would have against Miami.

Based on this logic we should draft a running back next year.

[better days]

He threw for a TD and had no picks. He didn't excatly lose the game. He could have played better and won the game for us. No argument there.

But to act like he's the only reason we lost is just ridiculous. If he threw 3 picks and caused a lead change, etc. than he certainly could be blamed.

So the fact he went 3 & out time after time after time had no effect on the outcome of the game.

[lightningbolt444]

Jerry Tagge (1972)
Rich Campbell (1981)
Todd Blackledge (1982)
Kelly Stouffer (1987)
Andre Ware (1990)
David Klinger (1992)
Heath Shuler (1994)
Tim Couch (1999)
Akili Smith (1999)
Cade McNown (1999)
Alex Smith (2005)
Art Schlichter (1982)
Jeff George (1990)
Andre Ware (1990)
Dan McGwire (1991)
Todd Marinovich (1991)
Tommy Maddox (1992)
Rick Mirer (1993)
Jim Druckenmiller (1997)
Ryan Leaf (1998)
Tim Couch (1999)
Cade McNown (1999)
Joey Harrington (2002)
J.P. Losman (2004)
Vince Young (2006) is potentially a bust
Matt Leinart (2006)
JaMarcus Russell (2007)
David Carr (2002)
Thats a sample of first round QB Draft picks now im not saying if we go qb he is a bust Im just saying people drafting a qb may not be the answer it WILL NOT fix "it". Face it we are not in a front office for a reason we are FANS and as fans as hard as we try not to we still have a Madden video game mindset about everything.....

[Mad Max]

Great, concise post. No suprise because you are Buffalo and SU sports fan.

Yes I'm a homer and am aware of it, go kick rocks.

So not to rub salt in your wounds, but what did you SU guys think of Locker's performance against the Orangemen? I didn't see the game, only the boxscore. Was it as good as it looks in the box?

[Dujek]

In the past few years that I've been on this board I have never seen anyone post the amount of complete and utter horse-**** that you have come out with in the past few days, and that includes Topdog posting in the Spin Zone.

The biggest problem on this team is the quarterback. There are other problems, but saying that we wouldn't be instantly better with any of those guys you compared Edwards to under center is head burying to a degree that any ostrich would be proud of.

Now please follow through on your threat from last year and stop following the Bills so the grown-ups can have a proper discussion.

[lightningbolt444]

"You could put together the prototype for the position at quarterback, and if he doesn't have people blocking for him, then he is going to bust - period."

If you do not have time in the pocket to make your progression reads and get the pass off, you will struggle in the NFL. Not only this, but if you get pressured too much, your confidence will drop like a rock, and in some cases it'll never recover.


Good read http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftquarterbackbusts.php

[lightningbolt444]

Also here is a guide to Offensive tackle busts...... I had to laugh when I read Mike Willams "One of the fattest human beings alive" But compare the two charts I would rather go with the safer option and an option we NEED to upgrade as well as qb

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftoffensivetackles.php



Quarterback Hit Rate: 48.2%
Defensive Tackle Hit Rate: 46.9%
Offensive Tackle Hit Rate: 69.2%

Quarterback Bust Rate: 44.4%
Defensive Tackle Bust Rate: 46.9%
Offensive Tackle Bust Rate: 19.2%

[Mad Max]

Jerry Tagge (1972)
Rich Campbell (1981)
Todd Blackledge (1982)
Kelly Stouffer (1987)
Andre Ware (1990)
David Klinger (1992)
Heath Shuler (1994)
Tim Couch (1999)
Akili Smith (1999)
Cade McNown (1999)
Alex Smith (2005)
Art Schlichter (1982)
Jeff George (1990)
Andre Ware (1990)
Dan McGwire (1991)
Todd Marinovich (1991)
Tommy Maddox (1992)
Rick Mirer (1993)
Jim Druckenmiller (1997)
Ryan Leaf (1998)
Tim Couch (1999)
Cade McNown (1999)
Joey Harrington (2002)
J.P. Losman (2004)
Vince Young (2006) is potentially a bust
Matt Leinart (2006)
JaMarcus Russell (2007)
David Carr (2002)

Thats a sample of first round QB Draft picks now im not saying if we go qb he is a bust Im just saying people drafting a qb may not be the answer it WILL NOT fix "it". Face it we are not in a front office for a reason we are FANS and as fans as hard as we try not to we still have a Madden video game mindset about everything.....

Mmmmm. That's a bustalicious list. What's your point? A list of almost equal length can be compiled of all the great, good, and serviceable QBs that came out during that same time period.

We may draft the next bust to be added to your list, but we may also draft a HOF'er or maybe a guy just serviceable enough to lead us to a SB victory. Won't know which unless we draft someone.

[lightningbolt444]

Mmmmm. That's a bustalicious list. What's your point? A list of almost equal length can be compiled of all the great, good, and serviceable QBs that came out during that same time period.

We may draft the next bust to be added to your list, but we may also draft a HOF'er or maybe a guy just serviceable enough to lead us to a SB victory. Won't know which unless we draft someone.

Well this is true but most people are calling for a first round qb and think its going to instantly fix everything..... this list just is something to show there is no sure thing..

[better days]

"You could put together the prototype for the position at quarterback, and if he doesn't have people blocking for him, then he is going to bust - period."

If you do not have time in the pocket to make your progression reads and get the pass off, you will struggle in the NFL. Not only this, but if you get pressured too much, your confidence will drop like a rock, and in some cases it'll never recover.


Good read http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftquarterbackbusts.php

NOBODY is saying to not improve the O-Line. The QB is job #1.

[Philagape]

That's just BS. You can't say that anymore than I can say that if our RBs had ran for 100 yards we could have won the game.

You can say that too.
Or several others factors would have turned the game, too.

Doesn't make what I said any less true.

Like I keep saying, in a close game, any ONE of several factors can change the outcome. ONE.

Trent is one of those factors. If he had played better, they win.

[Dujek]

"You could put together the prototype for the position at quarterback, and if he doesn't have people blocking for him, then he is going to bust - period."

If you do not have time in the pocket to make your progression reads and get the pass off, you will struggle in the NFL. Not only this, but if you get pressured too much, your confidence will drop like a rock, and in some cases it'll never recover.


Good read http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftquarterbackbusts.php

Admit it, you're just HH's sock puppet, aren't you?

[better days]

Well this is true but most people are calling for a first round qb and think its going to instantly fix everything..... this list just is something to show there is no sure thing..

Tony Mandrich, Mike Williams, Robert Gailery.....................

[Philagape]

Based on this logic we should draft a running back next year.

Get a QB that can get the defenses to back off, and the RBs will do fine.

Edwards held back the running game way more than vice-versa. Way more.
Every Bills opponent can stack the box because they have nothing to fear from Edwards.

[lightningbolt444]

Admit it, you're just HH's sock puppet, aren't you?

No im not at all I think Edwards was garbage this past week and last season.... I tryed to give him a chance against Miami and it lasted about a drive :trance: . Im looking at FACTS instead of following what I feel.

[lightningbolt444]

Tony Mandrich, Mike Williams, Robert Gailery.....................

Look at what I posted after the qbs I pointed all those guys out. Im not sayin there arnt bust o linemen I am saying qb busts are more frequent. This board is awful I point out FACTS and you cant even believe them...

[HHURRICANE]

In the past few years that I've been on this board I have never seen anyone post the amount of complete and utter horse-**** that you have come out with in the past few days, and that includes Topdog posting in the Spin Zone.

The biggest problem on this team is the quarterback. There are other problems, but saying that we wouldn't be instantly better with any of those guys you compared Edwards to under center is head burying to a degree that any ostrich would be proud of.

Now please follow through on your threat from last year and stop following the Bills so the grown-ups can have a proper discussion.

Jim Kelly was 4-12 his first year and he played great. I think he had 22 TDs, 16 picks and threw for 3500 yards.

Those numbers would still be good today. What changed was the team got better around him. Polian was drafting and improving the team. This team is so far away from '86, '87, '88 that we could have Brady on this team and we aren't smelling playoffs.

I have never said that a better QB would not help. I have already posted a bazillion times that Edwards is not the QB for this team.

Maybe you should have a grown-up argument instead of acting like a kid.

[X-Era]

Jerry Tagge (1972)
Rich Campbell (1981)
Todd Blackledge (1982)
Kelly Stouffer (1987)
Andre Ware (1990)
David Klinger (1992)
Heath Shuler (1994)
Tim Couch (1999)
Akili Smith (1999)
Cade McNown (1999)
Alex Smith (2005)
Art Schlichter (1982)
Jeff George (1990)
Andre Ware (1990)
Dan McGwire (1991)
Todd Marinovich (1991)
Tommy Maddox (1992)
Rick Mirer (1993)
Jim Druckenmiller (1997)
Ryan Leaf (1998)
Tim Couch (1999)
Cade McNown (1999)
Joey Harrington (2002)
J.P. Losman (2004)
Vince Young (2006) is potentially a bust
Matt Leinart (2006)
JaMarcus Russell (2007)
David Carr (2002)
Thats a sample of first round QB Draft picks now im not saying if we go qb he is a bust Im just saying people drafting a qb may not be the answer it WILL NOT fix "it". Face it we are not in a front office for a reason we are FANS and as fans as hard as we try not to we still have a Madden video game mindset about everything.....

Peyton Manning
Philip Rivers
Ben Roth
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan

So thats Indy, SD, Pitt, NY, and Atl that have front offices with a Madden video game mindset.

Weak man.

That list would be just as long for any other position. Maybe we should just get rid of the 1st round all together.

[X-Era]

Look at what I posted after the qbs I pointed all those guys out. Im not sayin there arnt bust o linemen I am saying qb busts are more frequent. This board is awful I point out FACTS and you cant even believe them...

Who's not believing them? I believe your facts simply state drafting isnt not a sure fire way to get a franchise QB. That's not news to anyone. If you have facts that any other position is better, that would be news. Interesting news that, correct me if I'm wrong, every team in the NFL must ignore. Can you think of a team that has never drafted a QB in the 1st round?

[Novacane]

Hmmmmm....what do the Saints, Chargers, Vikings, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Packers...just to name a few...all have in common? Oh! That's right, GOOD QUARTERBACKS



Don't you realize that Edwards would be just as good as all those teams QB's if he had a better offensive line. ;)

[X-Era]

What changed was the team got better around him. Polian was drafting and improving the team.

History cant repeat itself?

[Novacane]

What I am saying is that this site thinks that replacing the QB automaticallly gets us wins.


That's :bs: No one here is saying that. Replacing the QB may keep us from falling asleep during the games and I'd settle for that at this point!

[HHURRICANE]

Peyton Manning
Philip Rivers
Ben Roth
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan

So thats Indy, SD, Pitt, NY, and Atl that have front offices with a Madden video game mindset.

Weak man.

That list would be just as long for any other position. Maybe we should just get rid of the 1st round all together.

I'll bet you the Cardnials and 49ers would love to have your crystal ball.

Everyone here thinks we are going to go 3-13 and get our Jim Kelly is in this coming draft.

The Jets had Brett Favre and what happened?? Than he goes to the Vikings and they are one throw from the Superbowl. Did Brett get better or did he just play on a better team?

[better days]

Look at what I posted after the qbs I pointed all those guys out. Im not sayin there arnt bust o linemen I am saying qb busts are more frequent. This board is awful I point out FACTS and you cant even believe them...

The reason there are so many QB busts is that it is such an important position that QB's get drafted higher than they should be in many cases.

Just look at the crap the media gave the Bills for not drafting one of the future busts in the last draft in rnd #1.

[HHURRICANE]

That's :bs: No one here is saying that. Replacing the QB may keep us from falling asleep during the games and I'd settle for that at this point!


Read the posts in this thread again. Several people posted a different QB would have won us the game.

Yes, Edwards blew.

The poor offensive scheme, the 38 yards of rushing, the exclusion of using a TE, the poor o-line play all had their place in this loss.

[HHURRICANE]

History cant repeat itself?

No.

[better days]

I'll bet you the Cardnials and 49ers would love to have your crystal ball.

Everyone here thinks we are going to go 3-13 and get our Jim Kelly is in this coming draft.

The Jets had Brett Favre and what happened?? Than he goes to the Vikings and they are one throw from the Superbowl. Did Brett get better or did he just play on a better team?

The Vikings run the same offense that Favre ran in G.B. with Chili as his O.C. TOTALLY different offense in N.Y. & he was injured in NY.

[X-Era]

I'll bet you the Cardnials and 49ers would love to have your crystal ball.

Everyone here thinks we are going to go 3-13 and get our Jim Kelly is in this coming draft.

The Jets had Brett Favre and what happened?? Than he goes to the Vikings and they are one throw from the Superbowl. Did Brett get better or did he just play on a better team?

Great, so you want us to sign Brett Favre? Or are you implying we should skip a QB worthy of our pick in hopes of finding some late round gem? We liked our 7th round QB so much we cut him and wouldn't even put him on our PS.

Put it this way, when the Bills are on the clock in the 1st round, they should (and in my opinion will) take a QB worthy of that pick before any other position, if there is no QB worthy of that pick they will look to other positions or consider other moves.

The number one priority is the QB position.

[X-Era]

No.

I wont think that way.

[better days]

Read the posts in this thread again. Several people posted a different QB would have won us the game.

Yes, Edwards blew.

The poor offensive scheme, the 38 yards of rushing, the exclusion of using a TE, the poor o-line play all had their place in this loss.

NOBODY is saying the Bills will have a winning SEASON this year with a different QB. I think MOST of us can agree a different QB could have won the last game however.

[X-Era]

NOBODY is saying the Bills will have a winning SEASON this year with a different QB. I think MOST of us can agree a different QB could have won the last game however.

That's a better topic. This one is polarizing. Every year we hear an argument that our top pick should be the line. And every year there are people saying we should draft a QB first.

In this past game I think a playoff caliber QB would have possibly won, yes. But not just anyone. It would have taken a QB that can find the open guys despite pressure, a QB who can throw the ball with accuracy to any place on the field, and a QB that can read defenses.

[HHURRICANE]

Great, so you want us to sign Brett Favre? Or are you implying we should skip a QB worthy of our pick in hopes of finding some late round gem? We liked our 7th round QB so much we cut him and wouldn't even put him on our PS.

Put it this way, when the Bills are on the clock in the 1st round, they should (and in my opinion will) take a QB worthy of that pick before any other position, if there is no QB worthy of that pick they will look to other positions or consider other moves.

The number one priority is the QB position.


Never said that QB is the wrong pick. I'm just saying that this team has a crappy o-line, no TEs, a weak #1 WR, and limited threats at the other wideout positions.

But somehow this team will be much, much, better with a different QB. The logic on this board is insane.

Again, Jim Kelly went 4-12 his first year here. Did he suck? How about Drew Brees?

You have to have a team that can play for the QB position to matter.

That's why Favre looked good on the Vikes and not so good on the Jets.

[X-Era]

Never said that QB is the wrong pick. I'm just saying that this team has a crappy o-line, no TEs, a weak #1 WR, and limited threats at the other wideout positions.

But somehow this team will be much, much, better with a different QB. The logic on this board is insane.

Again, Jim Kelly went 4-12 his first year here. Did he suck? How about Drew Brees?

You have to have a team that can play for the QB position to matter.

That's why Favre looked good on the Vikes and not so good on the Jets.

If your point is only that replacing Edwards with a playoff or SB caliber QB wont make us a playoff team, I would lean toward agreeing.

I am simply saying that I don't want us to skip the rest of the draft after we draft a QB in the 1st and that it probably will take several more drafts before we can rebuild this team. But that likelihood doesn't mean we should not address our number one need.

[Philagape]

Several people posted a different QB would have won us the game.

The poor offensive scheme, the 38 yards of rushing, the exclusion of using a TE, the poor o-line play all had their place in this loss.

What you're not seeing is that both statements are true.

You're setting up a straw man to downplay Edwards' putridity. You're trying to make it look like people are saying he was the ONLY thing wrong. Who is saying that? Who is saying the line played great? Who is saying the Bills ran plenty? Who is saying Gailey called a great game?

[Dujek]

Jim Kelly was 4-12 his first year and he played great. I think he had 22 TDs, 16 picks and threw for 3500 yards.

Those numbers would still be good today. What changed was the team got better around him. Polian was drafting and improving the team. This team is so far away from '86, '87, '88 that we could have Brady on this team and we aren't smelling playoffs.

I have never said that a better QB would not help. I have already posted a bazillion times that Edwards is not the QB for this team.

Maybe you should have a grown-up argument instead of acting like a kid.

Yeah, you continuously say that Edwards isn't the answer, and then start a million threads about how his performance on Sunday wasn't the reason the Bills lost the game. Anyone with eyes can see what happened, we had an awful quarterback who couldn't throw the ball down the field, the Dolphins loaded the box and took away the short passes and the run game, and Edwards didn't have either the balls or the ability to beat them over the top.

A quarterback who could make the intermediate to long throws wins that game. It's as simple as that, and saying that there are other areas we need to fix before we address the QB situation is pure nonsense.

And I've been making grown up arguments, as have most of the other people here. You've been ignoring them and carried on spouting your utter drivel for the past 4 days. Quite frankly I've had enough of your crap.

[better days]

That's a better topic. This one is polarizing. Every year we hear an argument that our top pick should be the line. And every year there are people saying we should draft a QB first.

In this past game I think a playoff caliber QB would have possibly won, yes. But not just anyone. It would have taken a QB that can find the open guys despite pressure, a QB who can throw the ball with accuracy to any place on the field, and a QB that can read defenses.

How about 2 out of 3? Fitz can read defenses much better than Trent & find the open guy.

Accuracy is a problem but I know he would have at least attempted to get the ball down the field.

Who knows? they could have gotten an interference penalty called if the ball had been thrown downfield............God knows the refs owed us one.

[HHURRICANE]

If your point is only that replacing Edwards with a playoff or SB caliber QB wont make us a playoff team, I would lean toward agreeing.

I am simply saying that I don't want us to skip the rest of the draft after we draft a QB in the 1st and that it probably will take several more drafts before we can rebuild this team. But that likelihood doesn't mean we should not address our number one need.

Yes and again I'm not saying QB is the wrong pick in the draft.

I think Gailey said it best. After a loss people blame the QB and the coach.

Great QBs can win you games when they have the right team around them. As good as Kelly played in '86 he couldn't win more than 4 games. Think about that!

If you want a QB that can win you games on his own than build a time machine and go back and get Michael Vick in his prime. I have been watching football for almost 40 years and he's the only QB I have ever seen do it without an o-line and limited help at key positions.

[HHURRICANE]

Yeah, you continuously say that Edwards isn't the answer, and then start a million threads about how his performance on Sunday wasn't the reason the Bills lost the game. Anyone with eyes can see what happened, we had an awful quarterback who couldn't throw the ball down the field, the Dolphins loaded the box and took away the short passes and the run game, and Edwards didn't have either the balls or the ability to beat them over the top.

A quarterback who could make the intermediate to long throws wins that game. It's as simple as that, and saying that there are other areas we need to fix before we address the QB situation is pure nonsense.

And I've been making grown up arguments, as have most of the other people here. You've been ignoring them and carried on spouting your utter drivel for the past 4 days. Quite frankly I've had enough of your crap.


Go back and replay Sirrius radio today. Miami would disagree with you on what the gameplan was.

You are the one getting worked up here, not me. If you are sick of my "crap" than just use the ignore feature.

I kept saying, since January, that Edwards will never be good behind this o-line but somehow you want to believe differently.

Just because I said he would win an open QB competition doesn't make me an Edwards homer.

I am a Jason Peters homer. That's a fact. The rest is on you head.

[Commissioner]

NOBODY is saying the Bills will have a winning SEASON this year with a different QB. I think MOST of us can agree a different QB could have won the last game however.
I think we also could of won the game with Edwards if numerous other things happened during the game that didn't go our way...

- How about Lee Evans dropping a 3rd down pass that hit him in the hands?
- How about if there wasn't a holding call on Trents 40 yard pass to Nelson on 2nd and 20?
- How about if the officials called the interference penalty on the bomb to Evans?

The offense collectively lost the game.... that is on Gailey's game plan also.

I'm all for the Bills losing every game this season so we can draft my man Ryan Mallett next year.... but I'm not going to crap all over Edwards everytime the team loses. I'll blast Edwards when I see reason too... but I'm not going to act like he was the worst QB ever on Sunday.

[jills]

He threw for a TD and had no picks. He didn't excatly lose the game. He could have played better and won the game for us. No argument there.

But to act like he's the only reason we lost is just ridiculous. If he threw 3 picks and caused a lead change, etc. than he certainly could be blamed.

He threw for a TD thanks to Miami playing prevent defense, had no picks thanks to the DB's with stone hands.

[Commissioner]

He threw for a TD thanks to Miami playing prevent defense, had no picks thanks to the DB's with stone hands.
You don't know anything if you think Miami was playing prevent. You clearly will just make stuff up to bash Trent.

[topher180]

My head is spinning. I'm at least taking comfort in the fact that most people are being rational about this. Can we agree on the following?

1) Trent Edwards is not the answer at QB. Not now, not ever. Amen.

2) Drafting is a crap shoot, but like it or not, drafting is a vital part of a team's success or failure.

3) HH means well, even if he's pretty much always wrong.

[jills]

You don't know anything if you think Miami was playing prevent. You clearly will just make stuff up to bash Trent.

They were playing prevent defense, go ahead and ask any Miami fan please.

[Nighthawk]

Read the posts in this thread again. Several people posted a different QB would have won us the game.

Yes, Edwards blew.

The poor offensive scheme, the 38 yards of rushing, the exclusion of using a TE, the poor o-line play all had their place in this loss.

You do realize that the reason that everybody thinks it was a "poor offensive scheme" is because Gailey put the game in Trent's hands...don't you? That pretty much backs up the point that he sucks and a better QB would have made a difference.

[Commissioner]

They were playing prevent defense, go ahead and ask any Miami fan please.
I don't care what any Miami fan says.... i was sitting there watching it with my own eyes. if Miami is playing prevent defense... then it's the worst prevent defense i've ever seen. Roscoe Parrish is not supposed to get behind the safeties in a prevent defense. They should start the play standing at the goal line, when we are on the 30.

[Nighthawk]

You don't know anything if you think Miami was playing prevent. You clearly will just make stuff up to bash Trent.

Wow...just WOW! Tell me you are not serious...PLEASE!!!!

[Nighthawk]

I don't care what any Miami fan says.... i was sitting there watching it with my own eyes. if Miami is playing prevent defense... then it's the worst prevent defense i've ever seen. Roscoe Parrish is not supposed to get behind the safeties in a prevent defense. They should start the play standing at the goal line, when we are on the 30.

Ha, ha...the reason Roscoe was able to get behind the prevent was because the safety screwed up and took a step towards the line of scrimmage...which allowed Parish to blow right by him.

[Commissioner]

Wow...just WOW! Tell me you are not serious...PLEASE!!!!

If you guys think Miami was playing a prevent defense when we are on the 30 yard line down by 10 points with 7 mins left in the game... then there is no point in debating anything with you because you clearly don't know what you are looking at when you watch football.

[Nighthawk]

If you guys think Miami was playing a prevent defense when we are on the 30 yard line down by 10 points with 7 mins left in the game... then there is no point in debating anything with you because you clearly don't know what you are looking at when you watch football.

You, my friend, do not know what you're talking about.

[better days]

I don't care what any Miami fan says.... i was sitting there watching it with my own eyes. if Miami is playing prevent defense... then it's the worst prevent defense i've ever seen. Roscoe Parrish is not supposed to get behind the safeties in a prevent defense. They should start the play standing at the goal line, when we are on the 30.

I was watching on TV so I don't know, what kind of defense was Miami playing on the TD drive?

[Commissioner]

Ha, ha...the reason Roscoe was able to get behind the prevent was because the safety screwed up and took a step towards the line of scrimmage...which allowed Parish to blow right by him.

If it was prevent then you have admit Trent made a nice quick read by recognizing the safety error.

[Mad Max]

If it was prevent then you have admit Trent made a nice quick read by recognizing the safety error.

I think it's academic whether or not it was prevent. We scored a grand total of 1 touchdown. So debating how that single solitary TD was attained in a LOSS is pointless (but by all means carry on if it makes you happy).

[Nighthawk]

I think it's academic whether or not it was prevent. We scored a grand total of 1 touchdown. So debating how that single solitary TD was attained in a LOSS is pointless (but by all means carry on if it makes you happy).

But...Trent was awesome for one drive...don't ya know!?!?

[better days]

If it was prevent then you have admit Trent made a nice quick read by recognizing the safety error.

Yeah, too bad he can't play that well against a regular 3-4 defense.

[Mad Max]

But...Trent was awesome for one drive...don't ya know!?!?

EPIC, is the word that comes to mind (not my mind, mind you..but to certain individuals around here).

They gotta have something to hang their collective hat on though, so can't blame them.

[X-Era]

EPIC, is the word that comes to mind (not my mind, mind you..but to certain individuals around here).

They gotta have something to hang their collective hat on though, so can't blame them.

I hang my hat on a coat rack... Trent Edwards is a coat rack.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Well if they draft an OT there is no guarantee they don't end up with a Mike Williams or Robert Gailery.
The odds are much less, though. And they should've picked McKinnie-- I will attest to believing that then as much as I do now. That was totally their fault-- wrong player, not wrong position.

[jills]

I don't care what any Miami fan says.... i was sitting there watching it with my own eyes. if Miami is playing prevent defense... then it's the worst prevent defense i've ever seen. Roscoe Parrish is not supposed to get behind the safeties in a prevent defense. They should start the play standing at the goal line, when we are on the 30.

On the TD drive they were using this formation, rushing with only 3 lineman

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4346/billsm.jpg

[Novacane]

On the TD drive they were using this formation, rushing with only 3 lineman

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4346/billsm.jpg




:lolpoint: commissioner

[Mad Max]

:lolpoint: commissioner

lol. Where's Ashton Kutcher, cause someone just got Punk'd!

[Billz_fan]

6 pages of reply and back and forth.

Trent is a huge part of the problem and needs to go.

I guarantee the game plan for defenses against the bills is simple. Stop the running game and make Edwards beat us with his arm. Formula = win

Whoops, I let out the secret :laughter:

[theanswer74]

QB makes all the difference.

[Mr. Pink]

A competent QB would make the offense look better yes...however with that gameplan Sunday, unless you have a GREAT QB and great WRs...we would have still lost anyways.

Most teams have to maintain some semblance of balance...not everyone has Brees, Brady or Peyton.

[topher180]

On the TD drive they were using this formation, rushing with only 3 lineman

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4346/billsm.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8893/dikembe.jpg

[TigerJ]

I am not of the opinion that getting a good QB will solve all of the Bills problems. I do think having a solid veteran QB would provide more offensive production immediately. Drafting the top rookie QB next spring will not help all that much. Sam Bradford not withstanding, a good rookie QB can come into an offense that has all the other pieces in place and do a good job. I don't think you can plug any rookie into Buffalo's offense right now and get good production. The offensive line cannot run block when the defense knows Buffalo wants to rely on the run. Some offensive lines can. Buffalo's isn't that good yet. Nor is it good enough to protect a young QB who hasn't honed his reading and reacting skills

Assuming this year plays out as I fear it will, I think I want Buffalo to decide they are finally going to put five solid offensive linemen on the field at once. There is a chance that Demetrius Bell is one of them if he can stay healthy and develop this season. With Levitre, Wood, Hangartner and Urbik, I think the interior will be OK. Green is a one year band aid, and not a very good one at that. Meredith can be OK if he gets his head on straight, but I'm not counting on that.

I think once Shawn Nelson comes back from his suspension, he may start to develop. Otherwise, the Bills will need to look for one.

If the right situation presents itself to sign a good veteran QB, then go ahead and do it, but don't go chasing after the latest hot college QB.

We have good running backs and and we may have the makings of a decent WR corps.

Now all we have to fix is the defense LOL

[ServoBillieves]

I'm gonna cut through the chaff, and go straight for the weak (Always Sunny Fans? Nobody? ok...)

We need a RT and LT first. Follow that with a hybrid TE who can block and catch (we have our catcher if he can put his bong down).

RB's are stacked, safeties are stacked(ish), corners are above average, DE's are older but will hold the fort, and the interior line is young but pretty good.

With the 3 majors out of the way on offense, let's talk about Linebackers...

Poz and Davis are good. Davis is a "starting" MLB in a new 3-4 system. Poz is made of glass but when he's on the field he's... well he can get the job done. OLB I cannot judge, since they aren't healthy. Except, of course, Mister Maybin, who is SUCH a beast off the edge in the new system -_-...

I will keep faith in Troupe, Kyle Williams too. But the MAJORS in this system change need to be BOTH tackle spots, correct players in the LB positions, a Tight End who is a good safety valve, and a good quarterback. Trent can survive for a bit, but will be coaching a new replacement in a year or two.

[HHURRICANE]

Joe Namath did his weakly show on Sirrius. His quote: "I'm an old QB but games are won and lost at the lines".

[Nighthawk]

Joe Namath did his weakly show on Sirrius. His quote: "I'm an old QB but games are won and lost at the lines".

The #1 position on a football team that determines win and losses is the QB position. There is no arguement...no matter how hard you try.

[Nighthawk]

On the TD drive they were using this formation, rushing with only 3 lineman

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4346/billsm.jpg

Yeah, but that's not what the Commish said?!?!? :crazy:

[X-Era]

The #1 position on a football team that determines win and losses is the QB position. There is no arguement...no matter how hard you try.

We need both. The only place where I disagree is A) when to take the QB, I want it first and foremost unless there isnt a guy worthy at our pick (no reaching), and B) That we know Bell isn't the answer, he could be lets let the season play out.

I will take it one step farther and say that I do feel we should upgrade at RT. But, you usually dont need to spend a 1st on one. And Id like to see Meredith start and see what we may be able to develop in him.

[Dujek]

A competent QB would make the offense look better yes...however with that gameplan Sunday, unless you have a GREAT QB and great WRs...we would have still lost anyways.

Most teams have to maintain some semblance of balance...not everyone has Brees, Brady or Peyton.

But with a competent QB the box wouldn't have been constantly loaded and the Bills would have run the ball more.

It's a chicken or egg question, obviously running the ball takes the pressure off the QB, but if teams don't respect a QB's ability they'll bring everyone into the box and then there's no point in even trying to run because you'll get nothing.

The simple fact is a better quarterback helps improve your run game.

[Turf]

Is there an analysis available that shows which draft position the current starting lineman in the NFL have come from? Or just the starting OT's?

[acehole]

we would have won with any of those below...


I'm sorry but people need to get real with what their expectations.

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart. Furthermore, just look at week 1 if you think the answer is solely on the QB:

Bradford: 53 QB Rating 3 picks, 1 TD

Matt Ryan: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Joe Flacco: 62 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Chad Hennne: 75 QB Rating O picks, O TDs

Matt Schaub: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez: 56 QB Rating 0 pick, 0 TDs

Alex Simth: 52 QB Rating 2 picks, O TDs

The funny part is Flacco, Henne, Schaub won and Ryan lost in overtime. They have complete teams. We don't.

We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.

We lose and you guys go on and on about the QB. Yes, Edwards didn't have a good game but he played better than the list above.

So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?

I'd rather build the line lines and get some talent before we waste a pick on Matt Leinart.

[feldspar]

Welp, Trent is the QB this year. Accept it and move on. It's a fact. Vent your frustration if you like, but that doesn't change the fact. He could get hurt, benched in favor of another bad QB, or, believe it or not, might have his positive moments...I thought the 31-yard TD pass to Roscoe on 4th-and-11 was a damn good play, no matter how open he was. The new regime is still trying to feel their way through this, and the only real way to evaluate the personnel they mostly adopted is through real-game play. The turnaround will not happen overnight.

Our depth seems weak most everywhere save the secondary, but I believe they call it the secondary because it's not the most important thing. Gotta give Nix and Gailey time to right the ship. They seem to be on the same page, and they don't strike me as the type that is wishy-washy. They aren't afraid to pull the trigger is the impression I get...but they have patience, which the fans should try to have, too. These guys aren't responsible for what happened before.

I say give them credit for not reaching for a QB just because the impression was that we need one. Making a mistake at that position by investing so much in him will set the team back YEARS. I think the Jets are about to find that out.

The people calling the shots are still trying to find the strengths of this team. Believe it or not, they are there. Once they find them, they will try to exploit them and do what the Bills do best, whatever that is. They're still trying to figure it out. Play to your strengths...that's what they are working on.

[Nighthawk]

We need both. The only place where I disagree is A) when to take the QB, I want it first and foremost unless there isnt a guy worthy at our pick (no reaching), and B) That we know Bell isn't the answer, he could be lets let the season play out.

I will take it one step farther and say that I do feel we should upgrade at RT. But, you usually dont need to spend a 1st on one. And Id like to see Meredith start and see what we may be able to develop in him.

When have I ever said we don't need a tackle? I just don't agree with the arguement that it is more important then getting a legitimate QB.

[X-Era]

When have I ever said we don't need a tackle? I just don't agree with the arguement that it is more important then getting a legitimate QB.

Nether do I. I am only saying we need both and the draft isn't one round long. I want a QB first and foremost like you do.

It wasn't necessarily directed at you.

[acehole]

In a game of inches all we needed was a little..



I'm sorry but people need to get real with what their expectations.

First off, even if we find ourselves in a position to draft one of the top QBs there is no guarantee that we won't end up with Matt Leinart. Furthermore, just look at week 1 if you think the answer is solely on the QB:

Bradford: 53 QB Rating 3 picks, 1 TD

Matt Ryan: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Joe Flacco: 62 QB Rating 1 pick, O TDs

Chad Hennne: 75 QB Rating O picks, O TDs

Matt Schaub: 67 QB Rating 1 pick, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez: 56 QB Rating 0 pick, 0 TDs

Alex Simth: 52 QB Rating 2 picks, O TDs

The funny part is Flacco, Henne, Schaub won and Ryan lost in overtime. They have complete teams. We don't.

We suck at TE, our o-line is terrible, Evans is not a #1 elite WR, et.c, etc. etc.

We lose and you guys go on and on about the QB. Yes, Edwards didn't have a good game but he played better than the list above.

So when we draft a top guy and we pay 100 millions dollars for him and we still suck, than what?

I'd rather build the line lines and get some talent before we waste a pick on Matt Leinart.