Perpetual "build the new stadium next to Niagara Falls" thread

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Guys and gals, I'm of the opinion that the Ralph's day has passed and it is time to build a new state of the are multi purpose stadium up against the US side of the falls. It would be the envy of the league! Lots of glass, large scoreboard/screen, retractable roof (with the understanding that it would never be closed for Bills games). The venue would be fantastic coupled next to one of the seven wonders of the world. It would reinvigorate the entire region. The falls would make it an instand draw for the Super Bowl, final four, college bowl games, pro bowl game, etc. Players would actually want to come up here to be part of something special.
Sure there are hurdles to cross, but the time is now to start planning. Niagara is the best place to build a new stadium. Butting it up next to the falls would be idea. Thoughts?



http://www.mtctickets.com/cities/images/niagara-falls-ny.jpg

[lightningbolt444]

I dont think the falls would be able to handle the traffic although good idea

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

I dont think the falls would be able to handle the traffic although good idea

Sure the infrastructure needs to be updated, just as it would regardless of where we put the thing. That's a given.
I don't care how it's done, just so long as it gets done. The time to start moving on it is now.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am for it.

[OpIv37]

Don't kid yourself on the retractable roof. If we ever get a stadium that has one, it WILL be closed in bad weather. They may promise to keep it open for all games when they build it, but when it's December and the team is 2-11 and it's 15 degrees outside with that friggin wind ripping off the river, they'll close it. I went to Niagara U for two years and I've experienced the wind first hand- players aren't going to want to kick or throw into it and fans aren't going to want to sit in it.

[Nighthawk]

I'd love it and totally agree this would be a huge step in the right direction for this area. However, what I want really doesn't matter when it comes this.

[kelly2reed4six]

I dont think the falls would be able to handle the traffic although good idea


That is the exact type of thinking that keeps the WNY area a s**thole, no offense. As it is now, you're right. But with proactive thinking and planning they could get it done. The WNY area has been a staple for s**thole America too long!

I think it's a good idea, but a huge gamble. It would, without a doubt, take the right people to do it. If we got some good minds in on the planning it could be done and help the area exponentially. The gamble is that the a-hole politicians around the area would road block it for their own greedy ambitions and pompous egos, ignoring the fact that they are only burying this area further and further!

Just to mention, Niagra falls is no longer one of the 7 wonders of the world....it is one of the forgotten 7 wonders of the world. That is pathetic.


I'm with ya man, but unfortunately I think I'm only one of the few.

[justasportsfan]

would love it. People wouldn't mind coming to watch the games because of the added value of seeing the falls.

[trapezeus]

buffalo and niagara's lack of top end hotels will make it impossible to host a superbowl.

and hosting a superbowl should be part of a winning strategy of hosting events. you shouldn't be building infrastructure to get a superbowl. you're infrastructure that supports your community should be solid enough that a superbowl is just icing on the cake.

i think niagara falls is totally untapped and needs to be realized as a great city with lots to do. i think they are slowly getting it right and building some attractions. I think state funded stadiums are killing the debt of the local, state and federal governments.

Also, why are we spending large amounts of money on new stadiums that can't stay relevant for more than 30 years?

Do the upkeep and keep these stadiums alive. Buffalo doesn't have an interested corporate base in buying more expensive boxes.

[Nighthawk]

Don't kid yourself on the retractable roof. If we ever get a stadium that has one, it WILL be closed in bad weather. They may promise to keep it open for all games when they build it, but when it's December and the team is 2-11 and it's 15 degrees outside with that friggin wind ripping off the river, they'll close it. I went to Niagara U for two years and I've experienced the wind first hand- players aren't going to want to kick or throw into it and fans aren't going to want to sit in it.

Agreed...it will be closed and I'm OK with it. Players nowadays are more interested in playing in perfect conditions then playing in the elements. It's just the way the sport has gone.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

That is the exact type of thinking that keeps the WNY area a s**thole, no offense. As it is now, you're right. But with proactive thinking and planning they could get it done. The WNY area has been a staple for s**thole America too long!

I think it's a good idea, but a huge gamble. It would, without a doubt, take the right people to do it. If we got some good minds in on the planning it could be done and help the area exponentially. The gamble is that the a-hole politicians around the area would road block it for their own greedy ambitions and pompous egos, ignoring the fact that they are only burying this area further and further!

Just to mention, Niagra falls is no longer one of the 7 wonders of the world....it is one of the forgotten 7 wonders of the world. That is pathetic.


I'm with ya man, but unfortunately I think I'm only one of the few.

Thanks buddy. It will take bold thinking to pull this off. No doubt that the timid and doubting thomas' will whine throughout the process.

Go Bills!

[Nighthawk]

buffalo and niagara's lack of top end hotels will make it impossible to host a superbowl.

and hosting a superbowl should be part of a winning strategy of hosting events. you shouldn't be building infrastructure to get a superbowl. you're infrastructure that supports your community should be solid enough that a superbowl is just icing on the cake.

i think niagara falls is totally untapped and needs to be realized as a great city with lots to do. i think they are slowly getting it right and building some attractions. I think state funded stadiums are killing the debt of the local, state and federal governments.

Also, why are we spending large amounts of money on new stadiums that can't stay relevant for more than 30 years?

Do the upkeep and keep these stadiums alive. Buffalo doesn't have an interested corporate base in buying more expensive boxes.

It's closer to the Ontario/Toronto market...there will be businesses that buy the boxes for that location. There are hotels being built on steady basis in the WNY area and this would just add to the building of additional hotels in NF.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

would love it. People wouldn't mind coming to watch the games because of the added value of seeing the falls.

Bingo.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

buffalo and niagara's lack of top end hotels will make it impossible to host a superbowl.

and hosting a superbowl should be part of a winning strategy of hosting events. you shouldn't be building infrastructure to get a superbowl. you're infrastructure that supports your community should be solid enough that a superbowl is just icing on the cake.

i think niagara falls is totally untapped and needs to be realized as a great city with lots to do. i think they are slowly getting it right and building some attractions. I think state funded stadiums are killing the debt of the local, state and federal governments.

Also, why are we spending large amounts of money on new stadiums that can't stay relevant for more than 30 years?

Do the upkeep and keep these stadiums alive. Buffalo doesn't have an interested corporate base in buying more expensive boxes.

Actually, if you build a multi purpose complex, it will spur exansion of modern hotels in the area. Its a fricken crime that downtown Niagara is a dump with the mighty falls right at its doorstop. The stadim I envision would end this nonsense.

[kelly2reed4six]

Just imagine a MNF game at the stadium.....rather than the announcers simply making their token comment about chicken wings in wny, maybe they could actually say "Man, I love doing MNF games up here.....this area is just gorgeous! The football game is an added bonus!"

[OpIv37]

Agreed...it will be closed and I'm OK with it. Players nowadays are more interested in playing in perfect conditions then playing in the elements. It's just the way the sport has gone.

I used to be fervently against any type of dome or retractable roof, but I'm starting to re-think my opinion. I find it hard to believe that the Colts would have had the kind of success they've had with a pass-happy offense if they had to play outside in Indiana 8 games a year. Plus, the team is a tough sell as it is, so protecting fans from the elements might be a bigger draw. Most of us have no problem sitting outside for a game in 20 degree weather, but many fans aren't nearly as die-hard.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Just imagine a MNF game at the stadium.....rather than the announcers simply making their token comment about chicken wings in wny, maybe they could actually say "Man, I love doing MNF games up here.....this area is just gorgeous! The football game is an added bonus!"

I'm digging it brother! It would be the draw we need to get coaches like Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher and others to consider the area. Not to mention the players.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

I dont think the falls would be able to handle the traffic although good idea

Smashing idea. Large!!

[ddaryl]

A niagara falls dome with one endzone facing the falls all glassed in.

That's my vision

[Novacane]

Great idea but who is going to pay for this new stadium?

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

I used to be fervently against any type of dome or retractable roof, but I'm starting to re-think my opinion. I find it hard to believe that the Colts would have had the kind of success they've had with a pass-happy offense if they had to play outside in Indiana 8 games a year. Plus, the team is a tough sell as it is, so protecting fans from the elements might be a bigger draw. Most of us have no problem sitting outside for a game in 20 degree weather, but many fans aren't nearly as die-hard.

Agreed to a point. Us baby boomer types are no longer spring chickens. Watching a home Bill's game in a climate controlled setting with all the amenities of modern club level seats does have its appeal.

[JD]

I am for it, but do you realize how ghetto Niagara Falls on the U.S. side is? It's officials are as corrupt as the ones who presided there in the 40s.

Soon, they'll build a barb wired fence around the hotel on the U.S. side.

I wouldn't mind a name change if a stadium were to be built on the canadian side.. Niagara Bills

[kelly2reed4six]

buffalo and niagara's lack of top end hotels will make it impossible to host a superbowl.

and hosting a superbowl should be part of a winning strategy of hosting events. you shouldn't be building infrastructure to get a superbowl. you're infrastructure that supports your community should be solid enough that a superbowl is just icing on the cake.

i think niagara falls is totally untapped and needs to be realized as a great city with lots to do. i think they are slowly getting it right and building some attractions. I think state funded stadiums are killing the debt of the local, state and federal governments.

Also, why are we spending large amounts of money on new stadiums that can't stay relevant for more than 30 years?

Do the upkeep and keep these stadiums alive. Buffalo doesn't have an interested corporate base in buying more expensive boxes.



Again, this is the kind of thinking that will keep this area the way it is. I'm not trying to step on toes, but come one! The WNY area is already so depressed, even if a new stadium project did fail what is the outcome? The area is already dead, I don't really think you can hurt it any worse.


Innovators go BALLS TO THE WALLS and they are the ones who are remembered for being great! They look at an "impossible" task and say "impossible? I think not!" They see the impossible scenarios as a situation to create greatness!

Unfortunately too many of the people in power have the spectator view and aren't willing to put their necks on the line.

[ddaryl]

Great idea but who is going to pay for this new stadium?

A stadium in Niagara Falls has Superbowl potential. Among other big acts that would love such a venue... If it was done right

it would increase tourism to the area and dump tons of money into the area.

my bet is the NFL would pony up a little for such a venue, but the tax payers will have to flip at least 1/2 the bill..

but the ROI for a stadium in Niagara falls trumps the ROI for a new stadium near the city of Buffalo.

[trapezeus]

ok, jae. i'll go with that last post.

it's already a failure. but the issue is the money.

currently i sit on the 50 yardline. for $90 with no psl. A new stadium will cost the area in taxes and added debt. so the average fan will have to chip in more tax money to make it happen. then after its built they'll be asked to spend 2-4x the original price and possibly a PSL. Buffalo/Niagara does not have PSL in them.

if the nfl doesn't chip in on this, then they could still move the team. if they do chip in, its because they want corporate boxes and higher ticket sales.

So a new stadium requires us to pay to build it, pay to finance it, and then pay extra to entertain ourselves on a team that will still find a way to **** it up. so the question is, are you happy to be disappointed at $90 a ticket, or at a higher rate?

[Nighthawk]

ok, jae. i'll go with that last post.

it's already a failure. but the issue is the money.

currently i sit on the 50 yardline. for $90 with no psl. A new stadium will cost the area in taxes and added debt. so the average fan will have to chip in more tax money to make it happen. then after its built they'll be asked to spend 2-4x the original price and possibly a PSL. Buffalo/Niagara does not have PSL in them.

if the nfl doesn't chip in on this, then they could still move the team. if they do chip in, its because they want corporate boxes and higher ticket sales.

So a new stadium requires us to pay to build it, pay to finance it, and then pay extra to entertain ourselves on a team that will still find a way to **** it up. so the question is, are you happy to be disappointed at $90 a ticket, or at a higher rate?

Honestly, you won't be able to have those tickets anymore if a new stadium isn't built. If the Bills stay, they WILL need a new stadium...that is a fact.

[JD]

Who wouldn't be okay with increased taxes if it meant your beloved Bills stayed in WNY?

[ddaryl]

Who wouldn't be okay with increased taxes if it meant your beloved Bills stayed in WNY?

not everyone.. but I'll send in a few tax $$$ to help out...

[Crisis]

how beautiful the area is?

the american side of NF is a dump for the most part..

[better days]

Honestly, you won't be able to have those tickets anymore if a new stadium isn't built. If the Bills stay, they WILL need a new stadium...that is a fact.

Well if a new stadium is built, he still won't have those tickets, even if he can afford the MUCH HIGHER cost. Ask anyone from Tampa, Dallas, N.Y/N.J. that had season tickets where they were & where they sit now.

I really don't understand why the Ralph can't be updated. A MUCH less expensive proposition.

[trapezeus]

i would rather keep renovating the ralph.

if a future time comes where credit is easy and the nfl and the owners continue to agree that they need to put their own money into the project, then i wouldn't be against it.

but the nfl is shooting itself in the foot with these stadiums. loyal 30+ year fans that buy all the merchandise that had the same seats in NYC have been priced out. they can't afford a 15k psl, a 700 ticket 8 times a week. isn't it better to have fans that constantly show up to pprove the game is relevant than to hvae some corporate guy buy it and only use the seats when they are good.

at the jets game i sat club level on the side of the endzone. the ticket was $195 a seat. the psl is $7500 a seat, and to have the priviledge of buying those seats, you hvae to buy touchdown club seat priviledges that tack another $100-200 a seat. i didn't ask my buddy how much those were.

that's not going to fly in buffalo.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

i would rather keep renovating the ralph.

if a future time comes where credit is easy and the nfl and the owners continue to agree that they need to put their own money into the project, then i wouldn't be against it.

but the nfl is shooting itself in the foot with these stadiums. loyal 30+ year fans that buy all the merchandise that had the same seats in NYC have been priced out. they can't afford a 15k psl, a 700 ticket 8 times a week. isn't it better to have fans that constantly show up to pprove the game is relevant than to hvae some corporate guy buy it and only use the seats when they are good.

at the jets game i sat club level on the side of the endzone. the ticket was $195 a seat. the psl is $7500 a seat, and to have the priviledge of buying those seats, you hvae to buy touchdown club seat priviledges that tack another $100-200 a seat. i didn't ask my buddy how much those were.

that's not going to fly in buffalo.

Dude the Ralph is beyond renovation. It is 2010. It was a great run (other than the past decade or so) but it is time to think of the future. Niagara is the best place to put it.

[trapezeus]

what is the expected shelf life of a stadium? under 40 years?

for the cost it takes to build these animals, they better last 50-75 years with constant care. it's ridiculous to keep building more stadiums. i heard atlanta wants a new stadium. it was built for the 1996 olympics. it's absurd. the ralph is a servicable stadium that gets upgrades to be useful.

a top end luxury vacation is fun until you realize you couldn't really afford it. same thing with a new stadium.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

what is the expected shelf life of a stadium? under 40 years?

for the cost it takes to build these animals, they better last 50-75 years with constant care. it's ridiculous to keep building more stadiums. i heard atlanta wants a new stadium. it was built for the 1996 olympics. it's absurd. the ralph is a servicable stadium that gets upgrades to be useful.

a top end luxury vacation is fun until you realize you couldn't really afford it. same thing with a new stadium.

Sorry, could not disagree with you more. The Ralph is tired. A dinosaur. Time to trade it in for a new model. Niagara would be perfect. Great venue. Would revitalize the whole region.

[better days]

Sorry, could not disagree with you more. The Ralph is tired. A dinosaur. Time to trade it in for a new model. Niagara would be perfect. Great venue. Would revitalize the whole region.

Who is going to PAY THE MONEY for this great new Stadium & everything else needed to go with it? This will never happen.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

how beautiful the area is?

the american side of NF is a dump for the most part..

Which is exactly why the stadium should be put there. It would revitalize the entire area.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Which is exactly why the stadium should be put there. It would revitalize the entire area.

Never say never guy. The money could be easily obtained if we did nothing other than to cut the worthless entitlement programs.

[better days]

Never say never guy. The money could be easily obtained if we did nothing other than to cut the worthless entitlement programs.

Yeah, well I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting if I were you.

[trapezeus]

Never say never guy. The money could be easily obtained if we did nothing other than to cut the worthless entitlement programs.

the area needs the jobs first and foremost. the area needs to build up the fact that they have a smart base of citizens. UB cranks out smart lawyers, doctors, engineers and undergrads. Most leave for better jobs elsewhere but would stay if opportunities existed.

Getting a yahoo is a good step. passing on bass pro is a good step. Build on pharma and technology and keep the grads in buffalo. Once you do this and actually build up demand, you'll get people to pay for tickets.

the stadium is an after thought.

[Mr. Miyagi]

If we build it, they will come.

:miyagi:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

If we build it, they will come.

:miyagi:

Amen brother.

[realdealryan]

Not intimately familiar enough with the area to know if there could be a place that could highlight the falls in the background like The Gorge Amphitheater does -

http://thefifthcorner.com/wp-content/gallery/venues/6a00e398a75eb8000500e398f9081e0004-500pi.jpg

[more cowbell]

Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnat, Buffalo....what do they all have in common? Blue-collar, rust belt cities....


Pittsburgh went from a ****hole to being goregous after heinz field was placed downtown

cleveleand doesnt look as bad as buffalo now since their stadium was built

and cincinnati is a nice city as well with their addition


buffalo................not so much




will it happen? no but a downtown stadium would be pretty sweet

[Jan Reimers]

Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnat, Buffalo....what do they all have in common? Blue-collar, rust belt cities....


Pittsburgh went from a ****hole to being goregous after heinz field was placed downtown

cleveleand doesnt look as bad as buffalo now since their stadium was built

and cincinnati is a nice city as well with their addition


buffalo................not so much




will it happen? no but a downtown stadium would be pretty sweet
Actually, Pittsburgh was well on the road to recovery before Heinz Field was built, and many things - including the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - have helped Cleveland.

Buffalo, with Canal Side, the Medical Campus and the renovation of many architecturally significant buildings, is on its way back. But a downtown stadium would help.

[doomsdayvirus]

how beautiful the area is?

the american side of NF is a dump for the most part..

so make it look better, and start with the stadium.

i think this is actually a pretty good idea. someone else mentioned having to build up the infrastructure. you can't do that in a lot of cities without displacing large chucks of the population, but since niagara falls is essentially vacant all you'll displace is some tumbleweeds. it's a city ripe for demolition and reinvestment. the more i think about it the more i like the idea.

also, we won't be tainting a wonder of the world because the canadian side has already gone ape***** with all it's skyscrapers and excess.

paying for it? ok, that's a sticking point. depressed area. low-use facility with a limited lifespan. but you can get creative:

1.) we don't have to compete with the cowboys and go for the biggest and baddest stadium out there. keep it simple, yet stylin'. make use of the natural surroundings. make the design unique, but not complicated or expensive. the seats don't have to be heated plush leather. the walkways don't need to be marble. you don't need a jumbotron the length of the field or a built in movie theatre. keep the frills at bay and just make it look good. bills fans come for the game, not the amenities. just look at the sold-out ralph every weekend!

2.) make the stadium flexible. it can replace some convention space lost by the falls casino and supplement buffalo's lackluster downtown convention center. who wouldn't want to hold their convention in a brand new shiny arena in niagara falls? maybe build some hotel space right in to the stadium? that's not a frill, it's a moneymaker! stadium parking ramps can double as cheap tourist parking that adds up to more income over time. and if the thing is domed then it can attract big-ticket concerts and other events year-round, not just 8 days a year.

3.) if you wanted to get even more creative with the financing, offer shares of it to the locals. lots of people would love to own "stock" in the bills like packers fans do in their team, but if the league won't let that happen, then why not own stock in the stadium instead?

[more cowbell]

Actually, Pittsburgh was well on the road to recovery before Heinz Field was built, and many things - including the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - have helped Cleveland.

Buffalo, with Canal Side, the Medical Campus and the renovation of many architecturally significant buildings, is on its way back. But a downtown stadium would help.

That's good to know, I haven't been downtown Buffalo in a while...what buildings are they renovating/or planning on renovating or building?

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

so make it look better, and start with the stadium.

i think this is actually a pretty good idea. someone else mentioned having to build up the infrastructure. you can't do that in a lot of cities without displacing large chucks of the population, but since niagara falls is essentially vacant all you'll displace is some tumbleweeds. it's a city ripe for demolition and reinvestment. the more i think about it the more i like the idea.

also, we won't be tainting a wonder of the world because the canadian side has already gone ape***** with all it's skyscrapers and excess.

paying for it? ok, that's a sticking point. depressed area. low-use facility with a limited lifespan. but you can get creative:

1.) we don't have to compete with the cowboys and go for the biggest and baddest stadium out there. keep it simple, yet stylin'. make use of the natural surroundings. make the design unique, but not complicated or expensive. the seats don't have to be heated plush leather. the walkways don't need to be marble. you don't need a jumbotron the length of the field or a built in movie theatre. keep the frills at bay and just make it look good. bills fans come for the game, not the amenities. just look at the sold-out ralph every weekend!

2.) make the stadium flexible. it can replace some convention space lost by the falls casino and supplement buffalo's lackluster downtown convention center. who wouldn't want to hold their convention in a brand new shiny arena in niagara falls? maybe build some hotel space right in to the stadium? that's not a frill, it's a moneymaker! stadium parking ramps can double as cheap tourist parking that adds up to more income over time. and if the thing is domed then it can attract big-ticket concerts and other events year-round, not just 8 days a year.

3.) if you wanted to get even more creative with the financing, offer shares of it to the locals. lots of people would love to own "stock" in the bills like packers fans do in their team, but if the league won't let that happen, then why not own stock in the stadium instead?

Bingo. Now this is the type of thinking we need to make this happen. Great post. :goodpost:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Actually, Pittsburgh was well on the road to recovery before Heinz Field was built, and many things - including the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - have helped Cleveland.

Buffalo, with Canal Side, the Medical Campus and the renovation of many architecturally significant buildings, is on its way back. But a downtown stadium would help.

The stadium needs to be built at Niagara Falls. U.S. side.

[X-Era]

Ive actually looked at this stuff.

The current size of the stadium plus the parking areas will not fit on Goat Island. The area to the south of the waterfront and to the south west of HSBC arena appears to have enough real estate. The waterfornt itself also doesn't look to have enough land either.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Ive actually looked at this stuff.

The current size of the stadium plus the parking areas will not fit on Goat Island. The area to the south of the waterfront and to the south west of HSBC arena appears to have enough real estate. The waterfornt itself also doesn't look to have enough land either.

As have I. The area where the Day's Inn is located and the surrounding property would work fine. The closer to the falls the better.

What's with the goofy Avator? LOL.

[X-Era]

As have I. The area where the Day's Inn is located and the surrounding property would work fine. The closer to the falls the better.

What's with the goofy Avator? LOL.

Rick Flair is the man. He's so ridiculous and hillarious.

[X-Era]

As have I. The area where the Day's Inn is located and the surrounding property would work fine. The closer to the falls the better.

What's with the goofy Avator? LOL.

You mean at the airport?

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Rick Flair is the man. He's so ridiculous and hillarious.

Yeah, Flair is a kook. LOL.
Seriously, Niagara is our best option for the new stadium. The closer to the falls the better.

[X-Era]

Nope, right near the Rainbow Bridge.

http://images.travelpod.com/cache/accom_maps/Niagara_Falls_Centre_Street_By_The_Falls_Days_Inn-Niagara_Falls.gif

In Canada probably wouldnt work. logistical nightmare crossing the border.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

In Canada probably wouldnt work. logistical nightmare crossing the border.

Wrong map - definitely needs to be on USA side!

[VeggieMan14]

started a thread about this a long time ago sayin we should build an underwater stadium beneath the falls we would get sooo much money haha

[Mr. Pink]

This stadium talk is great and all BUT

How is an area that has issues passing a budget and tries to circumvent Indian treaties going to figure out how to raise and appropriate the funds necessary to fund building a new stadium?

It is what it is, but there is ZERO chance a domed stadium will ever be built in this area and with a slim to none chance a new open aired stadium will be build.

That being said, if a new stadium is somehow built, it should be downtown. It should have been downtown 40 years ago.

[Bravo82]

Niagara Falls is a dump...No stadium will ever help the city. The thought of Niagara Falls ever hosting the Super Bowl is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. The only two halfway decent hotels in the Falls are the Casino & the Crown Plaza...

Forget all the fancy hotels across the river. Like someone else said, thousands of people trying to cross an International Border is a logistical nightmare. And I don't know any investors willing to plunk down 600+ million on a new stadium anyway, so your point is moot. Good luck getting the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Niagara Falls needs real development and infrastructure, not a pro sports team.

Plus the Ralph is fine the way it is.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Niagara Falls is a dump...No stadium will ever help the city. The thought of Niagara Falls ever hosting the Super Bowl is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. The only two halfway decent hotels in the Falls are the Casino & the Crown Plaza...

Forget all the fancy hotels across the river. Like someone else said, thousands of people trying to cross an International Border is a logistical nightmare. And I don't know any investors willing to plunk down 600+ million on a new stadium anyway, so your point is moot. Good luck getting the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Niagara Falls needs real development and infrastructure, not a pro sports team.

Plus the Ralph is fine the way it is.

Niagara is dump, which is why the stadium whould help spark revitalization. While you may find one the the 7 natural wonders a bore, millions upon millions come every year to see it for themselves - staying on the Canadian side. Think big. Be bold.

[X-Era]

Heres some images on my thoughts, obviously in some cases we would have to change the layout of the parking lots but in most cases, the acreage seems to be close:
A)
14988

B)
14989

C)
14990

D)
14991

[X-Era]

Personally I like the A and D locations the best.

[X-Era]

And in this image you can see that there just isnt the acreage to put the stadium on Goat Island. No idea how you get that many people on and off the island... etc...

But it would be cool:

14992

[Night Train]

I say, build a Tiki bar on the moon.

There, I said it. And so it will be done.

[streetkings01]

I've been saying that for years. The Falls is the perfect place for a football stadium.......I would def make the trip up there 3-4 times a year for a game.

[HHURRICANE]

Guys and gals, I'm of the opinion that the Ralph's day has passed and it is time to build a new state of the are multi purpose stadium up against the US side of the falls. It would be the envy of the league! Lots of glass, large scoreboard/screen, retractable roof (with the understanding that it would never be closed for Bills games). The venue would be fantastic coupled next to one of the seven wonders of the world. It would reinvigorate the entire region. The falls would make it an instand draw for the Super Bowl, final four, college bowl games, pro bowl game, etc. Players would actually want to come up here to be part of something special.
Sure there are hurdles to cross, but the time is now to start planning. Niagara is the best place to build a new stadium. Butting it up next to the falls would be idea. Thoughts?



http://www.mtctickets.com/cities/images/niagara-falls-ny.jpg

If you have 2 Billion dollars you should start building it now. The reason there is no talk of a new stadium is the fact that there is no money for it.

[El Guapo]

I would bet if there is a group ready to buy the Bills (as Jim has repeatedly stated), there will be a stipulation that a new stadium be built for the team to remain here. If I were in the group, that is what I would demand.

Now, where to locate it is another question. I am not from Buffalo, but I would think Niagra would be a good location. We draw from Toronto, which would cut their commute. Wouldn't it be closer for Rochester fans as well? Just looking at a map, it would seem that fan support outside of Buffalo would come from the North and East of the city.

[Stewie]

I would bet if there is a group ready to buy the Bills (as Jim has repeatedly stated), there will be a stipulation that a new stadium be built for the team to remain here. If I were in the group, that is what I would demand.

Now, where to locate it is another question. I am not from Buffalo, but I would think Niagra would be a good location. We draw from Toronto, which would cut their commute. Wouldn't it be closer for Rochester fans as well? Just looking at a map, it would seem that fan support outside of Buffalo would come from the North and East of the city.

If you live on the north side of Rochester, it could be a little closer using 104.. if you're getting there from 90 it's more or less equivalent to go north/nw into niagara or south into orchard park

[doomsdayvirus]

grand island, while it's a novel idea to have a stadium in the middle of the river, isn't really doable without building a few more bridges....

and we all know how hard it is to get a bridge built around here.

[doomsdayvirus]

and goat island is just silly.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am all for having to drive longer to get to the game as long as they stay in the region.

Pembroke/Niagara Falls/ WHEREVER as long as they don't move.

[mrbojanglezs]

being next to the falls would be nice problems are:

1) parking, where are all the lots gonna be
2) All the mist from the falls could be a problem..... might have to be a dome
3) grand island bridges (yikes)
4 Falls sucks, but it could spark the development needed for a while

[Typ0]

there will never be a stadium built while Wilson owns the team as it would decrease it's value considerably.

[trapezeus]

ok...i'm still not feeling stadium for monetary reasons. but i like Taylor's moxy and general solutions.

My question to you (the fans that want the new stadium) is: how do we make that stadium more than a stadium. A convention center is ok, but how do we make it integral to the community? If it's a state sponsored stadium, how do we make it a space for the public to enjoy more than a handful of times a year.

Are there events that our region can host to promote buffalo? Can we integrate a hotel within the building like the skydome? Can we make it a key piece to the Empire state games?

The architecture of the actual stadium must be unique and somehow showcase the falls. I'm no architect, but anything other than the new meadowlands/phoenix stadium pod.

If you can get this thing to be more than a stadium/convention center, then you can really promote the idea of state funding.

[JD]

Who is going to PAY THE MONEY for this great new Stadium & everything else needed to go with it? This will never happen.
There's the Buffalo attitude we know and love.

That's why Buffalo is in the state it's in, nobody takes a ****ing chance.

[better days]

There's the Buffalo attitude we know and love.

That's why Buffalo is in the state it's in, nobody takes a ****ing chance.

Hey don't shoot the messenger. I'm just saying in todays economy it is tough to get anything built.

If a Stadium is privately funded, trust me you will not be happy with the cost of admission. Hell, even if publicly funded you would not be happy with the price of admission.

[JD]

That's good to know, I haven't been downtown Buffalo in a while...what buildings are they renovating/or planning on renovating or building?
Many buildings are being transformed into loft style apartments instead of being demolished.

Here are some examples:
http://projectbuffalo.com/
http://www.buffalorising.com/real-estate/

[trapezeus]

Hey don't shoot the messenger. I'm just saying in todays economy it is tough to get anything built.

If a Stadium is privately funded, trust me you will not be happy with the cost of admission. Hell, even if publicly funded you would not be happy with the price of admission.

at least with private funded, it makes sense for the owners to get all the parking and stadium ticket revenue.

under the public plan, it makes no sense for us to fund the stadium to be built and then fund the owner to be rich.

[JD]

Hey don't shoot the messenger. I'm just saying in todays economy it is tough to get anything built.

If a Stadium is privately funded, trust me you will not be happy with the cost of admission. Hell, even if publicly funded you would not be happy with the price of admission.
In today's economy, Buffalo is faring better than anyone in the nation.

http://www.buffalonews.com/business/business-columns/david-robinson/article194819.ece

[JD]

And in this image you can see that there just isnt the acreage to put the stadium on Goat Island. No idea how you get that many people on and off the island... etc...

But it would be cool:

14992
That would be sweet, but imagine the environmentalist uproar.

[JD]

I would bet if there is a group ready to buy the Bills (as Jim has repeatedly stated), there will be a stipulation that a new stadium be built for the team to remain here. If I were in the group, that is what I would demand.

Now, where to locate it is another question. I am not from Buffalo, but I would think Niagra would be a good location. We draw from Toronto, which would cut their commute. Wouldn't it be closer for Rochester fans as well? Just looking at a map, it would seem that fan support outside of Buffalo would come from the North and East of the city.
I heard the owner of Delaware North is a HUGE Bills fan.. he lives in East Aurora with a networth of 2.1 Billion.. maybe Jim and him are boys?

[mrbojanglezs]

I heard the owner of Delaware North is a HUGE Bills fan.. he lives in East Aurora with a networth of 2.1 Billion.. maybe Jim and him are boys?

problem is he owns the boston bruins, he would have to sell them to be the owner of the bills, can't own two teams in different cities

[more cowbell]

problem is he owns the boston bruins, he would have to sell them to be the owner of the bills, can't own two teams in different cities


and he is a giant *****/doushe

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

If you have 2 Billion dollars you should start building it now. The reason there is no talk of a new stadium is the fact that there is no money for it.

If there is a will, there is a way.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Give me a break.

The only reason the Bills are still profitable in Buffalo-- the ONLY one-- is because they are still in their old stadium and haven't built a new one. You push stadium debt into the equation, and the team is now unprofitable. If you want to assure the Bills leaving Western New York, build a new stadium. It may seem counterintuitive on its face, but that's what will happen.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Give me a break.

The only reason the Bills are still profitable in Buffalo-- the ONLY one-- is because they are still in their old stadium and haven't built a new one. You push stadium debt into the equation, and the team is now unprofitable. If you want to assure the Bills leaving Western New York, build a new stadium. It may seem counterintuitive on its face, but that's what will happen.

No, you give us a break! LOL.
It would be foolhearty to do absolutely nothing here and to continue to host the Bills in the decaying Ralph. You stick you head in the sand and do nothing to address a new stadium, then you assure the Bills will leave western NY. Rest assured some other city would step up to build them a stadium in a hearbeat to lure them in. My suggestion is a darn good one - Niagara is a natural draw for millions, the stadium would spur economic growth in the entire region by being a multi purpose facility, players/coaches would be lining up to play in such a great venue. Build it ad they shall come.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Decaying? It's a hole in the ground. This isn't a massive monument that has to be maintained structurally, like the L.A. Coliseum. It's built into the ground itself, and it's a lot sturdier than your typical stadium because of it. Take a look at Cramton Bowl in Montgomery, Alabama-- that stadium is still in use after nearly 90 years. It was built in almost the same way, and it will probably still be useful for another 90. Buffalo's greatest decision was to not build the multi-purpose stadiums that were en vogue back then and adopt the in-the-ground design instead. Otherwise you'd be right.

As for your statement... a new stadium is not going to change the market. The same fans will still come to the games, and not much more. So why, then, if a new stadium must be built, as you insist, would you put it in the same market as before??? Moving it from one side of the Buffalo suburbs to another is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Gentlemen,
Everything about this team seems tired and outdated - our uniforms, our front office staff, our mediocre coach, our bumbling GM - and our stadium.
The Ralph had a good run fellas, but has quickly become one of the most outdated stadiums in the league. Its time for a new beginning. Announcing the building of a new stadium on the edge of the falls in Niagara USA would be a grand start. It would provide a natural draw for millions and would be a multi use facility (Final Four anyone? LOL). Retractable roof (open for home games, regardless of weather :rockout: ), a view of the falls, big screen for those of you who enjoy such things. Think of it guys. It would be the envy of the league. Players and great coaches would love to be part of such a place.

I'm sick of the tired, old, rusty look of this team. A new direction, a new stadium and slowly we can start building some :respect: in this league.

Thoughts?

http://www.distinctly.on.ca/chs/awards/Niagara_Falls_Lights.jpg

[TacklingDummy]

Never going to happen unless the owner pays for it himself. The days of taxpayer funded stadiums are over.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Gentlemen,
Everything about this team seems tired and outdated - our uniforms, our front office staff, our mediocre coach, our bumbling GM - and our stadium.
The Ralph had a good run fellas, but has quickly become one of the most outdated stadiums in the league. Its time for a new beginning. Announcing the building of a new stadium on the edge of the falls in Niagara USA would be a greand start. It would provide a natural draw for millions and would be a multi use facility (Final Four anyone? LOL). Retractable roof (open for home games, regarless of weather :rockout: ), a view of the falls, big screen for those of you who enjoy such things. Think of it guys. It would be the envy of the league. Players and great coaches would love to be part of such a place.

I'm sick of the tired, old, rusty look of this team. A new direction, a new stadium and slowly we can start building some :respect: in this league.

Thoughts?

http://www.distinctly.on.ca/chs/awards/Niagara_Falls_Lights.jpg
I'm down with it, brotherman. The time has come for a number of bold moves & this is one of them. Switching to the throwbacks & getting a franchise QB are key issues as well. Great stuff, fella!:peace:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Never going to happen unless the owner pays for it himself. The days of taxpayer funded stadiums are over.

Well, with an attitude like yours, it certainly will not happen guy. Im optimistic. A new venue is the only way to go. :brilliant:

[THRILLHO]

Wow, this is the first time this has been suggested. Quick! Call Ralph, call the city of Niagara, call the Governor, they have to know about this!

[TacklingDummy]

Well, with an attitude like yours, it certainly will not happen guy. Im optimistic. A new venue is the only way to go. :brilliant:
Realistically 1) all governments are in a budget crunch, 2) Buffalo is not part of NYC. Therefore there will be no new stadium in Buffalo unless the owner pays for it himself.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Wow, this is the first time this has been suggested. Quick! Call Ralph, call the city of Niagara, call the Governor, they have to know about this!
Good thinking.:bedard:

[Johnny Bugmenot]

And I'm sick of your silly, repetitive rants about abandoning a structurally sound stadium and pushing for a way too expensive stadium that will put this team into such financial Hell that it will destroy any chance of this team ever being competitive again. Not to mention the erosion threat building a stadium on a waterfall would pose-- structural problems would abound!

This team is not in the trouble it is in because of the stadium. The on-the-field product stinks. A new stadium will not change that and, given the debt load that'd have to be taken on to do it, would likely make it worse. If there's one way to fix the problem, they have to clean out New York government and make this place a better town for business so that jobs and people will come back.

Give it up. This foolish stadium-on-a-waterfall plan is not the solution.

[T-Long]

I believe that when there is new ownership, that a new stadium by the falls will be proposed and will find a way to work. Kelly and company know this and I'm sure it has been discussed in their meetings. For the Bills to survive the long term in the NFL, a new stadium is going to have to be built eventually. But to build it by one of the greatest spectacles to see is something that has to happen IMO.

[ddaryl]

However economic investment via stimulus could be an argument for fixing Niagra falls area and making a state of the art venue that attracts visitors as a focal point.

jobs created, an area re-vitalized, increased tourism etc... are legitimate arguments to be made

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

And I'm sick of your silly, repetitive rants about abandoning a structurally sound stadium and pushing for a way too expensive stadium that will put this team into such financial Hell that it will destroy any chance of this team ever being competitive again. Not to mention the erosion threat building a stadium on a waterfall would pose-- structural problems would abound!

This team is not in the trouble it is in because of the stadium. The on-the-field product stinks. A new stadium will not change that and, given the debt load that'd have to be taken on to do it, would likely make it worse. If there's one way to fix the problem, they have to clean out New York government and make this place a better town for business so that jobs and people will come back.

Give it up. This foolish stadium-on-a-waterfall plan is not the solution.
You're very negative. Who cares what you're tired of, porky?:crazy: :bringit:

[mrbojanglezs]

lets hope the new governor is a bills fan

[OpIv37]

Well, with an attitude like yours, it certainly will not happen guy. Im optimistic. A new venue is the only way to go. :brilliant:

I'm really sick of posts like this.

I'm sorry, but we are just posters on this message board. We are not players. We do not work for the team or for any relevant level of government. Our attitude has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on what the team does.

I'm also sick of people being optimistic simply for the sake of being optimistic, as if it is some sort of higher state of being. Optimism is only warranted when there is a basis or reasoning for it. At the moment, there isn't any. The owner doesn't have money for a new stadium. The state and local governments don't have money for a new stadium. And no one beyond some local sports pundits and message board posters have even mentioned one. So, there is absolutely no logical reason to be optimistic about getting a new stadium at this point.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

And I'm sick of your silly, repetitive rants about abandoning a structurally sound stadium and pushing for a way too expensive stadium that will put this team into such financial Hell that it will destroy any chance of this team ever being competitive again. Not to mention the erosion threat building a stadium on a waterfall would pose-- structural problems would abound!

This team is not in the trouble it is in because of the stadium. The on-the-field product stinks. A new stadium will not change that and, given the debt load that'd have to be taken on to do it, would likely make it worse. If there's one way to fix the problem, they have to clean out New York government and make this place a better town for business so that jobs and people will come back.

Give it up. This foolish stadium-on-a-waterfall plan is not the solution.

Pound sand. I could give a rip what the likes of you is sick of. :yawn:

"Structurally sound"? Giants stadium was structually sound. So was Texas Stadium, RFK stadium in DC, the Vet in Philly, Indy and Detroit to name just a few. It's 2010 guy. Jim Kelly is long retired and is carrying an AARP card. Quit living in the past. A new stadium is a necessity.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

I'm really sick of posts like this.

I'm sorry, but we are just posters on this message board. We are not players. We do not work for the team or for any relevant level of government. Our attitude has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on what the team does.

I'm also sick of people being optimistic simply for the sake of being optimistic, as if it is some sort of higher state of being. Optimism is only warranted when there is a basis or reasoning for it. At the moment, there isn't any. The owner doesn't have money for a new stadium. The state and local governments don't have money for a new stadium. And no one beyond some local sports pundits and message board posters have even mentioned one. So, there is absolutely no logical reason to be optimistic about getting a new stadium at this point.

Whatever. Drown in your misery as I dont really care. Having the attitude of "it can never be done" is foolish. Trust me pal, when the Bills get sold, I'm fairly certain that one of their first orders of business will be to start the process for a new venue. Get over it.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

However economic investment via stimulus could be an argument for fixing Niagra falls area and making a state of the art venue that attracts visitors as a focal point.

jobs created, an area re-vitalized, increased tourism etc... are legitimate arguments to be made

Thanks buddy. Nice to have you in my camp on this one. :usflag:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

I believe that when there is new ownership, that a new stadium by the falls will be proposed and will find a way to work. Kelly and company know this and I'm sure it has been discussed in their meetings. For the Bills to survive the long term in the NFL, a new stadium is going to have to be built eventually. But to build it by one of the greatest spectacles to see is something that has to happen IMO.

Great to have you onboard with my suggestion. Many thanks.

[OpIv37]

Whatever. Drown in your misery as I dont really care. Having the attitude of "it can never be done" is foolish. Trust me pal, when the Bills get sold, I'm fairly certain that one of their first orders of business will be to start the process for a new venue. Get over it.
Right now, misery is reality. So deal with it instead of living in a dream world.

I never said that it could never be done- just that there is no money to do it in the short term.

It is far more likely that new ownership moves the team before building a new stadium in Buffalo. And who in WNY has $750 million to buy the team plus at least $500 million to build a new stadium? Answer: no one.

I know you prefer to dismiss this as my "misery" rather than discuss reality because reality doesn't get you what you want, but you will see soon enough.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Right now, misery is reality. So deal with it instead of living in a dream world.

I never said that it could never be done- just that there is no money to do it in the short term.

It is far more likely that new ownership moves the team before building a new stadium in Buffalo. And who in WNY has $750 million to buy the team plus at least $500 million to build a new stadium? Answer: no one.

I know you prefer to dismiss this as my "misery" rather than discuss reality because reality doesn't get you what you want, but you will see soon enough.

Where did I suggest building a new stadium in Buffalo???? Hmmm??? The fact is I did not. Read my post again guy, slower this time. LOL.
I'm suggesting it be built next to one of the Seven Wonders of world. It's usually a bidding war to win the bragging rights to owning an NFL team. The Bills would be no exception.

[OpIv37]

Where did I suggest building a new stadium in Buffalo???? Hmmm??? The fact is I did not. Read my post again guy, slower this time. LOL.
I'm suggesting it be built next to one of the Seven Wonders of world. It's usually a bidding war to win the bragging rights to owning an NFL team. The Bills would be no exception.

It doesn't matter where it is- a new stadium anywhere close enough to Buffalo for the team to still be called the "Buffalo Bills" isn't going to happen. Niagara Falls is still in NYS and Niagara County doesn't have any more money than Erie County.

[Jan Reimers]

Op, I'm with you on this one. Even though I would like a shiny new stadium - albeit on the Buffalo waterfront, rather than overlooking Niagara Falls - there is really no way to build one right now. Governments are broke, the economy is terrible, and no team needs the huge debt load, even if they could finance such a project.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

It doesn't matter where it is- a new stadium anywhere close enough to Buffalo for the team to still be called the "Buffalo Bills" isn't going to happen. Niagara Falls is still in NYS and Niagara County doesn't have any more money than Erie County.

Your negativity just oozes out of you. Where there is a will there is a way brother - bonds, deep pockets of owners, etc. Green Bay got it done and so did Detroit - not exactly the richest areas of the country these days. You keep crying into your beer. With the attitude of guys like you, we'd still be using buggy whips. :pimped:

[RockStar36]

Your negativity just oozes out of you. Where there is a will there is a way brother - bonds, deep pockets of owners, etc. Green Bay got it done and so did Detroit - not exactly the richest areas of the country these days. You keep crying into your beer. With the attitude of guys like you, we'd still be using buggy whips. :pimped:

Green Bay got it done?

[Stewie]

Here's what I want to see:

-A new arc constructed between the US and Canadian sides from the Canadian -side of the horseshoe diagonally across to the American falls.
-A new stadium build on the arc with see-through fieldturf
-A canadian only side of the stadium so they can watch the game without having to go through customs
-liquid filled seats that can be heated or cooled with a touchscreen LCD in every seat
-A real NFL team

Make it happen

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

I'm down with it, brotherman. The time has come for a number of bold moves & this is one of them. Switching to the throwbacks & getting a franchise QB are key issues as well. Great stuff, fella!:peace:

Thanks Doc! It will indeed take bold moves to move this team forward. :awm:

[OpIv37]

Your negativity just oozes out of you. Where there is a will there is a way brother - bonds, deep pockets of owners, etc. Green Bay got it done and so did Detroit - not exactly the richest areas of the country these days. You keep crying into your beer. With the attitude of guys like you, we'd still be using buggy whips. :pimped:

First, there are no deep pockets in WNY right now- at least not that deep. And even if there were, they would only put the money in if they thought they could get a return on investment. With the economy being so bad, and the fact that they'd have to buy the team as well as finance the stadium, the chances of returns in the foreseeable future are slim to none.

Second, it's not negativity- it's reality. Go look at the budgets for NYS, Erie County and Niagara County right now. It's ugly. I'm not making this up to be negative- it's simply how it is at the moment.

Third, I don't work for the Bills. I don't work for the state or local government. I don't have deep pockets. Hell, I don't even live in WNY anymore. My attitude is completely irrelevant because there is absolutely nothing I could do to affect this situation in any way, shape or form. Stop trying to make this about me simply because you don't have a valid response.

[stuckincincy]

Gentlemen,

Thoughts?

http://www.distinctly.on.ca/chs/awards/Niagara_Falls_Lights.jpg

It would have to be a private venture, built by somebody with at least a half a billion to blow on a limited use facility.

$1,500 - $4,000 PSLs, $100+ ave. ticket price, $9.00 beers, $7.00 hot dogs, $50 parking - the vibrant Bflo economy with all it's citizens' fat wallets will jump on it...

Peel off $5K of your own money as a sign of support and send it to Ralph. After all, you wouldn't want people who don't give a rats' patoot to pay for your personal yucks...right? :xmas:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Green Bay got it done?

Indeed they did. Sorry you missed it.
They took an old, outdated venue, gutted it, and turned it into this:

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/images/t_25658_06.jpg

[Cntrygal]

Did you forget you already started a thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=196129) about this very topic?

[G Wolly]

Nice.

One month to the day.

Way to go.

[RockStar36]

Indeed they did. Sorry you missed it.
They took an old, outdated venue, gutted it, and turned it into this:

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/images/t_25658_06.jpg

But you're saying you want a new stadium by the Falls, not to renovate the Ralph. That's two different things.

[G Wolly]

But you're saying you want a new stadium by the Falls, not to renovate the Ralph. That's two different things.

Plus the Ralph has been renovated a few times, just not a large scale overhaul.

Maybe if there IS a lockout next season, we use the time off to knock it down and rebuild a better one right where it stood.

Or just knock it down now and call it a season.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

But you're saying you want a new stadium by the Falls, not to renovate the Ralph. That's two different things.
Could be we have to settle for a MAJOR renovation. Let's just hope it's a good one.:bullseye:

[RockStar36]

Plus the Ralph has been renovated a few times, just not a large scale overhaul.

Maybe if there IS a lockout next season, we use the time off to knock it down and rebuild a better one right where it stood.

Or just knock it down now and call it a season.

For me personally, I want one by the Falls.

I want it so traffic is a nightmare and there is no room to tailgate or do anything fun.

While we're at it, the stadium should have a ton of luxury boxes so the real fans get priced out for corporate business people who have no interest in the Bills.

Oh, and I want a dome too. None of that pesky snow interfering with the games.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

For me personally, I want one by the Falls.

I want it so traffic is a nightmare and there is no room to tailgate or do anything fun.

While we're at it, the stadium should have a ton of luxury boxes so the real fans get priced out for corporate business people who have no interest in the Bills.

Oh, and I want a dome too. None of that pesky snow interfering with the games.
Thank you Negative Ned. LOL:db:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Could be we have to settle for a MAJOR renovation. Let's just hope it's a good one.:bullseye:

Agreed. One thing is for certain, a major overhaul is in order. Green Bay got it right, as did Chicago. :rockout:

[RockStar36]

Agreed. One thing is for certain, a major overhaul is in order. Green Bay got it right, as did Chicago. :rockout:

Again, those were RENOVATIONS, that is the opposite of what your thread title suggests Captain Flip Flop.

[DraftBoy]

I want a new stadium but I understand right now its a pipedream, but I would like the new ownership team to have some kind of an idea or plan for how to build and fund a new stadium in the future.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Again, those were RENOVATIONS, that is the opposite of what your thread title suggests Captain Flip Flop.

Best option: New stadium on the edge of the falls (USA side)
2nd best option: Major overhaul of the Ralph

El comprehende?

[RockStar36]

Best option: New stadium on the edge of the falls (USA side)
2nd best option: Major overhaul of the Ralph

El comprehende?

Why does the Ralph need a major overhaul? What's wrong with it right now?

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Why does the Ralph need a major overhaul? What's wrong with it right now?
It's 37-years-old, Negative Ned. Come on.:funny:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

It's 37-years-old, Negative Ned. Come on.:funny:

Can you believe some of the guys around here? Let's just wait until the dam# place turns 100 years old before we dare to begin discussing a new stadium or major renovation. LOL :funny:

[Tiburon1724]

Why does the Ralph need a major overhaul? What's wrong with it right now?
Have you been to another stadium? It's embarrassing for me to take friends from out of town who are fans of other teams to The Ralph. Once you're in your seats I have no issues with the stadium but the entire outside of the stadium needs to be redone as it's ugly as hell, the entire tunnel is an ugly outdated mess, concessions and retail areas are terrible (they have a pull out drawer they stuff cash in and figure out what you pay by calculator..wtf!), the bathrooms are completely inadequate and disgusting...it's just shameful. I also hate how the stadium is below ground level. I know why it was done, but it diminishes the impact of the stadium.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Have you been to another stadium? It's embarrassing for me to take friends from out of town who are fans of other teams to The Ralph. Once you're in your seats I have no issues with the stadium but the entire outside of the stadium needs to be redone as it's ugly as hell, the entire tunnel is an ugly outdated mess, concessions and retail areas are terrible (they have a pull out drawer they stuff cash in and figure out what you pay by calculator..wtf!), the bathrooms are completely inadequate and disgusting...it's just shameful. I also hate how the stadium is below ground level. I know why it was done, but it diminishes the impact of the stadium.

Thank you. Its refreshing to hear sound logic from a fellow season ticket holder. My guess is those who scoff at the notion of a new stadium probably have no skin in the game in terms of season ticket holders or worse, probably never stepped foot in the joint. Sheesh. :doh:

[TedMock]

I appreciate the optimism, but I have to agree with Op here. It’s not being negative. It’s just the reality of what’s going on right now. A new owner will most likely have to have a new stadium and those lined up probably have a few things in mind. For Ralph, it just doesn’t make a lot of sense right now and the money just isn’t there. The last significant renovation our stadium had was in 1999 and it cost $63 million. The entire thing was funded by a state public subsidy (actually from the general fund, I believe). There is no way the state makes those funds available right now. Economically, it would be foolish at this point in time. Additionally, the $63 million is by far the lowest cost of renovation anywhere in the league in recent history.

Chicago’s major overhaul was in 2003 and it cost $632 million. $432 million of that came from city public subsidy funds (various forms of tax money). Green Bay also overhauled in 2003 for $295 million. $169 million of that from sales tax. Another chunk came from fans buying license plates, bricks at the stadium, and (I swear to god) a check box on their income tax returns to donate a portion to the Packers renovation project. Those donations have significantly decreased with the economy and did not count for a major percentage of the funds to begin with. Philly built a new stadium in 2003. Over half the funds came from city and state public subsidy – primarily various forms of taxes. There were actually several stadium projects in the 2002-2003 period. Most greatly funded in ways similar to what I’ve already mentioned.

I would love a new stadium on Buffalo’s waterfront even more so than by the falls, but it’s now 7-8 years after these “new” renovations/upgrades, etc were done at other stadiums. Can you really imagine, at this point in time, the state of NY and the cities, counties or tax payers in WNY approving a project of this magnitude given the financial instability of the area? Hopefully in the future, but not right now.

[G Wolly]

My guess is those who scoff at the notion of a new stadium probably have no skin in the game in terms of season ticket holders or worse, probably never stepped foot in the joint. Sheesh. :doh:

You wanna take this discussion there?

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Can you believe some of the guys around here? Let's just wait until the dam# place turns 100 years old before we dare to begin discussing a new stadium or major renovation. LOL :funny:
True dat, Mr. T.:poop: LOL

[Bravo82]

Are you aware Niagara Falls, NY is perhaps the biggest ****hole in the nation? The only things a new stadium would bring are massive amounts of debt to the team, and a huge increase in ticket prices. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Jan Reimers]

There was a major renovation in 1996 or 1997, with the new "dug out" suites, club level premium seating with the Kelly, McGuire, and Miller clubs, rest room towers and a few other upgrades. There was also a large, new HD video screen installed a couple of years ago.

The stadium could probably use upgrades to its rest rooms and concession stands and a new sound system (or has that been added? I can't remember).

Granted, it's not an entertainment mecca, but it's a damned good football stadium with great sight lines. Great tail gating before and after games, too. So If you come to tailgate and watch football, the Ralph is a good place.

[TedMock]

My guess is those who scoff at the notion of a new stadium probably have no skin in the game in terms of season ticket holders or worse, probably never stepped foot in the joint. Sheesh. :doh:

...and by the way - I live over 400 miles away from Buffalo and still have season tickets and the NFL package for when I can't make it. I have plenty of skin in the game.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Are you aware Niagara Falls, NY is perhaps the biggest ****hole in the nation? The only things a new stadium would bring are massive amounts of debt to the team, and a huge increase in ticket prices. Thanks, but no thanks.

LOL. I certainly am aware of Naigara Falls NY. It is a national embarrassment, considering it is butted up against one of the seven wonders. Which is all the more reason to put the stadium in the middle of it. It would revitalize the entire region, making the whole area the pride of NY state. Think big, be big guy. :biggrin:

[TedMock]

Granted, it's not an entertainment mecca, but it's a damned good football stadium with great sight lines. Great tail gating before and after games, too. So If you come to tailgate and watch football, the Ralph is a good place.

This is a good point and not made enough. The actual viewing experience in Buffalo is far greater than any other I've been to. Too bad the product on the field sucks! Maybe we'd be better off with a less viewer friendly stadium like Philly or Washington!

[Bravo82]

Also might I add the Ralph got a "small" renovation before 2007 with the new scoreboard and ribbon strip thing..the Ralph is a fine stadium. I had season in 2007 and 2008 but dumped them due to the ineptitude on the field and my growing disdain for the NFL in general...has nothing to do with the stadium.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

LOL. I certainly am aware of Naigara Falls NY. It is a national embarrassment, considering it is butted up against one of the seven wonders. Which is all the more reason to put the stadium in the middle of it. It would revitalize the entire region, making the whole area the pride of NY state. Think big, be big guy. :biggrin:
I like your bold thinking, brah.:bike:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

...and by the way - I live over 400 miles away from Buffalo and still have season tickets and the NFL package for when I can't make it. I have plenty of skin in the game.

Good for you my man. :duel:

[G Wolly]

I like your bold thinking, brah.

You should.

Since you're the same person.

[DesertFox24]

All we need to do is what Green Bay did and make some restorations.

Green Bay built an Atrium where they have restaurants, sports bars, have a packer hall of fame, and do stadium tours (which let you walk on the field). The atrium is open to public every day, but the HOF and tours are closed on Sundays.

The team generates a lot of revenue from this because you can go to the sports bar watch games eat some food and drink local beer, so it also helps the economy.

Plus there is a huge parking lot that is free except game days, and they have a huge pro shop.

In other words the bills need to do some renovations, add some luxury boxes, and add an atrium that is open year round and will help increase the revenue the team brings in yearly.

[G Wolly]

In other words the bills need to do some renovations, add some luxury boxes, and add an atrium that is open year round and will help increase the revenue the team brings in yearly.

I agree with the rest, but as a whole, the plan would be a failure until we get people to pay for the luxury boxes and various amenities.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I will contribute $100 towards a new stadium at the Falls.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

You should.

Since you're the same person.


http://inlandpolitics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/pinocchio.gif


Some of you will stoop to anything to discredit those to whom you disagree. Pitiful.

For the record, I've had many disagreements with this Dr. Z guy, but on this one we absolutely agree. Good for him. Now run along an pound sand. Liar. :band:

[Bravo82]

Looks like our pal Taylor here is having too much fun alone in the basement :ill:

[TedMock]

I will contribute $100 towards a new stadium at the Falls.

Excellent, now if we combine the twelve counties that make up western NY, we get around 2.5 million people. If we only get each and every one of them to pony up $100, we could afford some real renovations without having to go to the public funds.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

You should.

Since you're the same person.
That's complete hogwash, pal. Stop telling lies about me. I'm not some clown with multiple usernames. Please feel free to prove your accusation.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

All we need to do is what Green Bay did and make some restorations.

Green Bay built an Atrium where they have restaurants, sports bars, have a packer hall of fame, and do stadium tours (which let you walk on the field). The atrium is open to public every day, but the HOF and tours are closed on Sundays.

The team generates a lot of revenue from this because you can go to the sports bar watch games eat some food and drink local beer, so it also helps the economy.

Plus there is a huge parking lot that is free except game days, and they have a huge pro shop.

In other words the bills need to do some renovations, add some luxury boxes, and add an atrium that is open year round and will help increase the revenue the team brings in yearly.
Let's hope that, at the very least, happens.

[RockStar36]

Can we combine this with the Niagara Falls thread from a month ago?

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Can we combine this with the Niagara Falls thread from a month ago?
I feel this has turned into a renovations thread, so there's no need.:nono: :jig:

[Mad Max]

Looks like our pal Taylor here is having too much fun alone in the basement :ill:

Don't feel too bad for him. He has the voices in his head to keep him company.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Don't feel too bad for him. He has the voices in his head to keep him company.
Wow. You have a big future on the comedy circuit my friend. Not. LOL:nono:

[Mad Max]

Wow. You have a big future on the comedy circuit my friend. Not. LOL:nono:

Interesting, since I quoted the following:

"Originally Posted by Bravo82
Looks like our pal Taylor here is having too much fun alone in the basement."

That quote clearly mentioned the username "Taylor" in it. No where is the username "Dr. Zaius" mentioned. So not sure why a completely unrelated individual would have taken offense.

[Billz_fan]

Read and absorb this. It's not negative. Just the facts.



I appreciate the optimism, but I have to agree with Op here. It’s not being negative. It’s just the reality of what’s going on right now. A new owner will most likely have to have a new stadium and those lined up probably have a few things in mind. For Ralph, it just doesn’t make a lot of sense right now and the money just isn’t there. The last significant renovation our stadium had was in 1999 and it cost $63 million. The entire thing was funded by a state public subsidy (actually from the general fund, I believe). There is no way the state makes those funds available right now. Economically, it would be foolish at this point in time. Additionally, the $63 million is by far the lowest cost of renovation anywhere in the league in recent history.

Chicago’s major overhaul was in 2003 and it cost $632 million. $432 million of that came from city public subsidy funds (various forms of tax money). Green Bay also overhauled in 2003 for $295 million. $169 million of that from sales tax. Another chunk came from fans buying license plates, bricks at the stadium, and (I swear to god) a check box on their income tax returns to donate a portion to the Packers renovation project. Those donations have significantly decreased with the economy and did not count for a major percentage of the funds to begin with. Philly built a new stadium in 2003. Over half the funds came from city and state public subsidy – primarily various forms of taxes. There were actually several stadium projects in the 2002-2003 period. Most greatly funded in ways similar to what I’ve already mentioned.

I would love a new stadium on Buffalo’s waterfront even more so than by the falls, but it’s now 7-8 years after these “new” renovations/upgrades, etc were done at other stadiums. Can you really imagine, at this point in time, the state of NY and the cities, counties or tax payers in WNY approving a project of this magnitude given the financial instability of the area? Hopefully in the future, but not right now.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Interesting, since I quoted the following:

"Originally Posted by Bravo82
Looks like our pal Taylor here is having too much fun alone in the basement."

That quote clearly mentioned the username "Taylor" in it. No where is the username "Dr. Zaius" mentioned. So not sure why a completely unrelated individual would have taken offense.
Duh. I'm well aware of that. I just read your post & didn't think it funny. You strike as one of those guys who is cocky for no reason whatsover. You seem to think you're funny as well, which you aren't. Just sayin', brainiac. LOL:dizzy:

[Italian Stallion]

This thread sucks.....a lot.

[Mad Max]

Duh....

[HAMMER]

New stadium is a longshot, don't hold your breath. If you were the buyer can you honestly tell me you would pay close to a billion dollars for a football team and then another 500-800 million for a new stadium in Buffalo, NY? Not enough money to be made in Buffalo to pay off that kind of debt.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

If it's all the same to you, I'll drive that tanka. LOL:clown:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

To clarify, I will accept nothing less than a M A J O R stadium renovation on par with what Green Bay and Chicago did. However, the only true long term solution is to build a new stadium - up along the edge of the falls - on the USA side of course.

[Jan Reimers]

To clarify, I will accept nothing less than a M A J O R stadium renovation on par with what Green Bay and Chicago did. However, the only true long term solution is to build a new stadium - up along the edge of the falls - on the USA side of course.
Well, now that we know exactly what you will, and will not, accept, we will get right on it.

So, who contacts the Bills? Who's got the Erie County Legislature? Chris Collins? Who starts the private fund raising effort?

Let's get on it, guys.

[EricStratton]

Wow, this is the first time this has been suggested. Quick! Call Ralph, call the city of Niagara, call the Governor, they have to know about this!



Maybe they read the same thread started last month.


http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=196129&highlight=niagara+falls

[Ed]

New stadium is a longshot, don't hold your breath. If you were the buyer can you honestly tell me you would pay close to a billion dollars for a football team and then another 500-800 million for a new stadium in Buffalo, NY? Not enough money to be made in Buffalo to pay off that kind of debt.
What are the other options though? I thought I read somewhere that there is some type of relocation fee that would be around 500-600 million. Could a new owner afford to pay 800 mil- 1 bil for the team, half a billion to move the team and then another billion for a new stadium?

If the Bills are to remain in Buffalo when new ownership eventually takes over, there's going to have to be a new stadium at some point. They can't play in the Ralph forever.

I think a new stadium right now is obviously out of the question, but it will have to be dealt with at some point in the near future, but not until we at least have new ownership. That could possibly be another 5-10 years though. Who knows.

[OpIv37]

http://inlandpolitics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/pinocchio.gif


Some of you will stoop to anything to discredit those to whom you disagree.
No one needs to discredit you. You do more than enough to discredit yourself.

[Mr. Pink]

A new stadium would be great.

However, who's going to pay for it?

[Nighthawk]

I believe that when there is new ownership, that a new stadium by the falls will be proposed and will find a way to work. Kelly and company know this and I'm sure it has been discussed in their meetings. For the Bills to survive the long term in the NFL, a new stadium is going to have to be built eventually. But to build it by one of the greatest spectacles to see is something that has to happen IMO.

Exactly.

The people who keep stating that "the Ralph is fine" and "we don't need a new stadium" are the people who do not understand that this team won't stay WITHOUT a new stadium...it just won't happen. Therefore, if you want the Bills to stay, then you better start to understand and support a new stadium.

[YardRat]

I like the Ralph...It's a beautiful, game- and fan-friendly stadium. That being said, when Kelly and his Native American backers eventually assume ownership it wouldn't surprise me if eventually (sooner, rather than later) a new stadium in Niagara County became part of the deal.

[BertSquirtgum]

lets get this team to get a winning season before we worry about a new stadium.

[Historian]

And who in WNY has $750 million to buy the team plus at least $500 million to build a new stadium? Answer: no one.



the senecas?

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

lets get this team to get a winning season before we worry about a new stadium.

We are doomed for a very, very long wait if we do what you suggest. Especially if we stick with the horrid Nix/Gailey duo. Fact.

The plans should be made NOW. Detroit was bold in building their stadium. It will attract great players, coaches and please the fans in due time. :tip:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Exactly.

The people who keep stating that "the Ralph is fine" and "we don't need a new stadium" are the people who do not understand that this team won't stay WITHOUT a new stadium...it just won't happen. Therefore, if you want the Bills to stay, then you better start to understand and support a new stadium.

Bingo. Nothing short of a very major renovation is acceptable. With the type of renovation needed, you may as well consider a new stadium all together. Butting it up against the falls only makes sense. :tip:

[EricStratton]

A new stadium would be great.

However, who's going to pay for it?




I'll write a check if I get to pick the location.

[wozrob11]

the only new stadium the bills are gonna get is not in buffalo . WEST SIDE

[X-Era]

the senecas?The Buffalo Bills Stadium and Casino at Niagara Falls. Love it.

[X-Era]

I'll write a check if I get to pick the location.Do construction crews take rubber checks?

[X-Era]

Bingo. Nothing short of a very major renovation is acceptable. With the type of renovation needed, you may as well consider a new stadium all together. Butting it up against the falls only makes sense. :tip:I cant remember if I went through this with you or someone else but I dont see the necessary real estate to put it next to the falls.

Just looked for the thread, it was you.

Take a look at this post:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=3320441&postcount=60

I dont see where it could even be done.

[OpIv37]

Do construction crews take rubber checks?

yes, but then your corpse ends up buried in concrete under the 50 yard line. Just ask Jimmy Hoffa.

[X-Era]

yes, but then your corpse ends up buried in concrete under the 50 yard line. Just ask Jimmy Hoffa.Why are we stuck using Fat Tony's Construction Incorporated?

[Johnny Bugmenot]

To clarify, I will accept nothing less than a M A J O R stadium renovation on par with what Green Bay and Chicago did. However, the only true long term solution is to build a new stadium - up along the edge of the falls - on the USA side of course.
Then you pay for it. Otherwise, you can pound sand.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

It's 37-years-old, Negative Ned. Come on.:funny: So what? A stadium should be built to last at that price. As I already stated in the previous thread, in-ground stadiums can last many years longer than above-ground structures. You should not dump nine to ten figures on a stadium you're going to abandon 30 years down the road-- it's just wasteful. Taylor's proposal is not conducive to being built into the ground as the Ralph is-- it's too close to moving water.

[X-Era]

Taylor's proposal is not conducive to being built into the ground as the Ralph is-- it's too close to moving water.Having the team slide into the abyss is way different than what were currently experiencing?

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

.....aylor's proposal is not conducive to being built into the ground as the Ralph is-- it's too close to moving water.

LOL. What a crock of dung. :chuckle:

[Bravo82]

LOL. What a crock of dung. :chuckle:

Have you ever been to Niagara Falls in the first place?

[Joe Fo Sho]

LOL. What a crock of dung. :chuckle:

What's that saying? Something about a pot and kettle?

[trapezeus]

i wonder how the nfl would take to the senecas owning a casino and a team. i bet that would be a major issue.

[G Wolly]

Tax-free beers

[SABuffalo786]

We are doomed for a very, very long wait if we do what you suggest. Especially if we stick with the horrid Nix/Gailey duo. Fact.

The plans should be made NOW. Detroit was bold in building their stadium. It will attract great players, coaches and please the fans in due time. :tip:


Stadiums don't attract players or coaches or fans.

Stadiums aren't economic boons.

[Joe Fo Sho]

We are doomed for a very, very long wait if we do what you suggest. Especially if we stick with the horrid Nix/Gailey duo. Fact.

Can you explain how this is a fact?

[Nighthawk]

Stadiums don't attract players or coaches or fans.
Stadiums aren't economic boons.

This is just not true...sorry.

[Bravo82]

This is just not true...sorry.

Disagree...these players want to win and get paid. Overall city climate would have a bigger impact on their decisions than how old the stadium is...and most stadium advocates are acting like the Ralph is falling apart...it is not. I can tell you firsthand that the dumps they call stadiums in SanFran and Oakland are much worse than the Ralph.

So we don't have the coolest or newest stadium on the block...who cares? although I wouldn't mind RWS upgrading the restrooms.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Stadiums don't attract players or coaches or fans.

Stadiums aren't economic boons.

Oh really? Tell that to colleges who upgrade locker rooms and sports' complexes to attract the best players and coaches. Riddle me this - given your druthers, would you rather play in a sandlot with outdated facilities or a state of the art complex like Dallas or Detroit?? Hmmm?? :limpclap:

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Can you explain how this is a fact?

0-5 and counting...:sadbye:

[YardRat]

Oh really? Tell that to colleges who upgrade locker rooms and sports' complexes to attract the best players and coaches. Riddle me this - given your druthers, would you rather play in a sandlot with outdated facilities or a state of the art complex like Dallas or Detroit?? Hmmm?? :limpclap:

No offense, but that's a ridiculous comparison.

#1, this ain't college, and #2 for most NFL players the deciding factor is money (later in their career, maybe a chance at winning) not locker rooms.

[Nighthawk]

Disagree...these players want to win and get paid. Overall city climate would have a bigger impact on their decisions than how old the stadium is...and most stadium advocates are acting like the Ralph is falling apart...it is not. I can tell you firsthand that the dumps they call stadiums in SanFran and Oakland are much worse than the Ralph.

So we don't have the coolest or newest stadium on the block...who cares? although I wouldn't mind RWS upgrading the restrooms.

It's been reported and there have been many stories done about this on ESPN and other sports outlets...players obviously care about the money, but they also care about the facilities. To say otherwise is plain ignorant.

[Joe Fo Sho]

0-5 and counting...:sadbye:

How does that prove we're doomed with them??

[YardRat]

It's been reported and there have been many stories done about this on ESPN and other sports outlets...players obviously care about the money, but they also care about the facilities. To say otherwise is plain ignorant.

It may be part of the WOW! factor with everything else being equal, but bottom line is a guy will take a half mil or mil more for five years and play in a sandlot over a glitzy locker room.

[Ed]

i wonder how the nfl would take to the senecas owning a casino and a team. i bet that would be a major issue.
That's a good point. Can you bet on sports at their casino, or is it just slots and table games? If so, that definitely sounds like a major conflict of interest.

[Nighthawk]

It may be part of the WOW! factor with everything else being equal, but bottom line is a guy will take a half mil or mil more for five years and play in a sandlot over a glitzy locker room.

Ehhh...I'm not so sure.

[Bravo82]

That's a good point. Can you bet on sports at their casino, or is it just slots and table games? If so, that definitely sounds like a major conflict of interest.

There is no sports wagering at the Seneca casino....Vegas is the only place in the country you can bet on individual sporting events...Delaware and a few other states, including Ontario have betting systems that require you to parlay though...but Vegas is the only of its kind in that regard unless you want to bet offshore.

[G Wolly]

How does that prove we're doomed with them??

QUIT DRINKIN THE KOOL AID AND WAVING YOUR POM POMS!!!1111

etc. etc.

[bf1]

What's up Taylor!

[Joe Fo Sho]

QUIT DRINKIN THE KOOL AID AND WAVING YOUR POM POMS!!!1111

etc. etc.

Ha, I am far from optimistic about this team. But it is not a FACT that we're doomed. That is all I was getting at.

[Joe Fo Sho]

What's up Taylor!

Hi Taylor.

[G Wolly]

Ha, I am far from optimistic about this team. But it is not a FACT that we're doomed. That is all I was getting at.

Sarcasm.

Hard to convey through type.

So I forgive you.

[bf1]

Taylor and I are not the same person.

[G Wolly]

Good for you?

I didn't say anything to you.

[bf1]

I didn't say anything to you either.

[BertSquirtgum]

What's up Taylor!

stop taling to yourself

[bf1]

I am/was malo. I am not Taylor.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

No offense, but that's a ridiculous comparison.

#1, this ain't college, and #2 for most NFL players the deciding factor is money (later in their career, maybe a chance at winning) not locker rooms.

Oh really? LOL. All other things being equal - money, fame, etc. - an NFL star will play at modern venue over an outdated one. Fact.

Given your choice of cars with all of them being equal in cost, would you take the Chevy Geo over a Mercedes? LOL :drive:

Think it through my friend....this is not rocket science. :boom:

[Jan Reimers]

Oh really? LOL. All other things being equal - money, fame, etc. - an NFL star will play at modern venue over an outdated one. Fact.

Given your choice of cars with all of them being equal in cost, would you take the Chevy Geo over a Mercedes? LOL :drive:

Think it through my friend....this is not rocket science. :boom:
This is a very arrogant post, particularly when your basic premise is flawed. Everyone knows that all other things are never equal, starting with the prices of Geos versus Mercedes.

[YardRat]

Oh really? LOL. All other things being equal - money, fame, etc. - an NFL star will play at modern venue over an outdated one. Fact.

Given your choice of cars with all of them being equal in cost, would you take the Chevy Geo over a Mercedes? LOL :drive:

Think it through my friend....this is not rocket science. :boom:


It may be part of the WOW! factor with everything else being equal, but bottom line is a guy will take a half mil or mil more for five years and play in a sandlot over a glitzy locker room.

[YardRat]

Oh really? LOL. All other things being equal - money, fame, etc. - an NFL star will play at modern venue over an outdated one. Fact.

Fact? Prove it.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Fact? Prove it.

He won't, I think he throws this 'fact' comment out without understanding what a fact is. Still hasn't proven why we're factually doomed with gailey and nix.

[SabreEleven]

Taylor and I are not the same person.

Pretty defensive without be accused of anything.

[JD]

Why not make Niagara Falls Indian territory? They've got the cash to build a stadium, hell..they'll probably make it a ****ing resort TOO

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Oh really? LOL. All other things being equal - money, fame, etc. - an NFL star will play at modern venue over an outdated one. Fact.

Given your choice of cars with all of them being equal in cost, would you take the Chevy Geo over a Mercedes? LOL :drive:

Think it through my friend....this is not rocket science. :boom:
No, you think about it. You cannot possibly compare the car one drives to the stadium one plays in. Tell me anyone who seriously thinks "gee, they gave me a real nice offer, but... gee, that glitzy new stadium is nice! I think I'll play there instead." That is so ludicrous.

Case in point: Ford Field hasn't helped the Lions.

[EricStratton]

Has anyone heard a complaint about the Bills locker rooms, weight room or fieldhouse/indoor practice facilities from any player who has come through the system?

This idea that their facilities are sub-par is laughable.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

No, you think about it. You cannot possibly compare the car one drives to the stadium one plays in. Tell me anyone who seriously thinks "gee, they gave me a real nice offer, but... gee, that glitzy new stadium is nice! I think I'll play there instead." That is so ludicrous.

Case in point: Ford Field hasn't helped the Lions.

So why did Shanahan pass on us? Why did McNabb not even consider us? :clown: Get real guy.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Making silly faces don't make any of your ludicrous points any more valid.

I'd bet my life savings that Shanahan and McNabb would've taken those jobs if the 'Skins were still in RFK, all other things equal. If you think that the stadium had ANYTHING to do with that, you have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing that it could possibly have done to help was the addition of seats-- and if this market could absorb more seating capacity then the Bills wouldn't have taken 6000 seats out of the Ralph 10 years ago.

So, I repeat-- go pound sand.

[trapezeus]

It's been reported and there have been many stories done about this on ESPN and other sports outlets...players obviously care about the money, but they also care about the facilities. To say otherwise is plain ignorant.

i think the players use the facilities as a deciding factor as a final decision making tool.

If you are the sucky bills who can't keep a coach, have no identity and no winning culture in 10 years, a couple of sweet facility things aren't going to make you say yes over another team with the same money.


let's get the team on the right track, get people to want to pay a premium for the stadium, and then talk about a new stadium. at that point, it would be the right time to phase out the ralph. i think the ralph still has 10 years of useful life.

[G Wolly]

i think the players use the facilities as a deciding factor as a final decision making tool.

Truth.

Would you wanna go to work everyday in a ****-hole and put your work in for a failing effort, or go to a nice, clean, accommodating environment that makes you wanna give your very best?

[RockStar36]

I think what the Bills really need is some pictures of Niagara Falls hanging up at the Ralph. It would really spruce the place up.

[G Wolly]

I think what the Bills really need is some pictures of Niagara Falls hanging up at the Ralph. It would really spruce the place up.

And some candles and incense and beads in the doorways.

[RockStar36]

And some candles and incense and beads in the doorways.

With a plant over in the corner.

[G Wolly]

And lava lamps.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

It's been reported and there have been many stories done about this on ESPN and other sports outlets...players obviously care about the money, but they also care about the facilities. To say otherwise is plain ignorant.

Bingo...
Amazing how a few clowns around here seem to think outdated facilities matter not in the opinions of prospective coaches and players. :doh: