You'd think you'd get it by now.

[Canadian'eh!]

How many times does this organiztion have to kick you in the teeth to get it?

It amazes me how many suckers for punishment there are.

Question: Had it not been for the Early 90's run, would ther even still be a team in Buffalo right now?

They've had about 5 years out of 50 where this team actually mattered. Followed by about 15 years of crap.

I see all these posts about how to fix the Bills. While there may be some actualy good ideas in there, you are wasting your time. The Bills will NOT matter again, until Ralph is dead.

You cannot win being cheap. FA, parity and the importance of having excellent Football minds has made sure of that.

Gailey was an uninspiring choice to coach. Nix was equally unimpressive.

This team is only around now to give the illusion of hope, while keeping costs at an absolute minimum, to maximize profits until Ralph dies and it can be sold off to the highest bidder, who will then move it to greener pastures.

This has been ongoing for the last 10 years. Max out the inheritance for the family. Screw the fans.

There is no dedication to winning. This is not a billionaire owner who is out to win Super Bowls to stroke his ego. This is a for-profit primary source of income.

The fans want a winner. Ralph wants money.

There are a thousand moves the average fan could have made that would have been FAR better than what we have seen. Because our motives would be winning. Not profits.

The writing is on the wall. The team is leaving, and taking our money with it.

This is why i have not bought anything Bills related in several years, and even gave up the one thing I did buy (Sunday Ticket). It's also why I wasn't even upset the past 2 weeks.

I don't believe in my heart that this team cares about it's fans or winning football games, so there's not much to care about.

[justasportsfan]

I guess thats why we're called fans.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Imagine if Ralph really wanted to win, he could've dropped the big cash and brought in Cowher. I know Cowher had plenty of excuses but had the price been right he would've come. That alone would attract talent, McNabb would've wanted to be here, and on and on with other real talents and we'd be on our way to recovery.

Like I said, I blame Ralph.

[Pinkerton Security]

And this is why Toronto, along with the rest of Canada, doesnt deserve an NFL team.

I understand that the Bills suck, but part of being a fan of a team is the HOPE that one day we'll be better, and honestly that's probably why I love being a Bills fan, because I like rooting for the underdog most of the time, and thats what we always are!!

[Canadian'eh!]

Imagine if Ralph really wanted to win, he could've dropped the big cash and brought in Cowher. I know Cowher had plenty of excuses but had the price been right he would've come. That alone would attract talent, McNabb would've wanted to be here, and on and on with other real talents and we'd be on our way to recovery.

Like I said, I blame Ralph.

Whether or not Ralph was really serious about tryin to bring in a big name coach, or if that was just smoke and mirrors to appease the fans is debatable.

But even if he WAS serious, the reason they all turned him down is because they KNEW he would not spend the money it takes to address the severe shortcomings in the talent on the field. (and probably knew they would not coexisit due to his meddling as well)

No good coach wants to have their image tarnished working for an owner who won't give them the freedom to build a winning team, because they are the ones who shoulder the eventual blame.

Cowher has options. Gailey didn't. If you have a choice at ANY of the 32 jobs out there, the Bills are probably 31, just ahead of Oakland.

Maybe when the team moves to LA in a few years Cowher will be interested.

[Canadian'eh!]

And this is why Toronto, along with the rest of Canada, doesnt deserve an NFL team.

I understand that the Bills suck, but part of being a fan of a team is the HOPE that one day we'll be better, and honestly that's probably why I love being a Bills fan, because I like rooting for the underdog most of the time, and thats what we always are!!

Buffalo the city doens't deserve a team in the eyes of the NFL. So you can hate on me all you want.

Just remember this when the team is gone, and you are left feeling betrayed.

I can read the writing on the wall is all.

[RockStar36]

This is a very well put together post. I completely agree.

[justasportsfan]

Buffalo the city doens't deserve a team in the eyes of the NFL.


I don't know about that. For the most part the entire NFL has stated we are one of the best fans win or lose. So why is it that we don't deserve a team?

We may not deserve a crappy team but to say we don't deserve a team is just ignorant.

[DesertFox24]

Canada,

Bro sorry you feel the way you do but Nix and Gailey can not overcome the bad drafting and FA signings of TD, Levy, and Brandon in one offseaons and probably not next year.

For me personally I really stopped caring about the outcomes of the games and have decided to try to watch some of our young players and seeing if they are getting any better.

2012 is the first year that I will be pissed if they lose for me.

However, keep calling us losers, and yeah maybe Nix and Gailey are not the genius kids but you can not argue that Nix built the Charges and Gailey has never had a losing season till this one.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Buffalo the city doens't deserve a team in the eyes of the NFL. So you can hate on me all you want.

Just remember this when the team is gone, and you are left feeling betrayed.

I can read the writing on the wall is all.

The Bills aint going anywhere, eh. They've been saying it for 50 years.

[G Wolly]

This thread is a redundant idiot.

We know. What do you expect us to do about it?

[imbondz]

How many times does this organiztion have to kick you in the teeth to get it?

It amazes me how many suckers for punishment there are.

Question: Had it not been for the Early 90's run, would ther even still be a team in Buffalo right now?

They've had about 5 years out of 50 where this team actually mattered. Followed by about 15 years of crap.

I see all these posts about how to fix the Bills. While there may be some actualy good ideas in there, you are wasting your time. The Bills will NOT matter again, until Ralph is dead.

You cannot win being cheap. FA, parity and the importance of having excellent Football minds has made sure of that.

Gailey was an uninspiring choice to coach. Nix was equally unimpressive.

This team is only around now to give the illusion of hope, while keeping costs at an absolute minimum, to maximize profits until Ralph dies and it can be sold off to the highest bidder, who will then move it to greener pastures.

This has been ongoing for the last 10 years. Max out the inheritance for the family. Screw the fans.

There is no dedication to winning. This is not a billionaire owner who is out to win Super Bowls to stroke his ego. This is a for-profit primary source of income.

The fans want a winner. Ralph wants money.

There are a thousand moves the average fan could have made that would have been FAR better than what we have seen. Because our motives would be winning. Not profits.

The writing is on the wall. The team is leaving, and taking our money with it.

This is why i have not bought anything Bills related in several years, and even gave up the one thing I did buy (Sunday Ticket). It's also why I wasn't even upset the past 2 weeks.

I don't believe in my heart that this team cares about it's fans or winning football games, so there's not much to care about.

I guess I agree to a point. But even Ralph knows that the most money he ever made as an owner was in the early '90s. So why wouldn't he want a championship team.

[better days]

Buffalo the city doens't deserve a team in the eyes of the NFL. So you can hate on me all you want.

Just remember this when the team is gone, and you are left feeling betrayed.

I can read the writing on the wall is all.

Well, why don't you just go watch the CFL then. You are not even watching the Bills games anyway, so don't let our team bother you.

[Beebe's Kid]

How many times does this organiztion have to kick you in the teeth to get it?

It amazes me how many suckers for punishment there are.

Question: Had it not been for the Early 90's run, would ther even still be a team in Buffalo right now?

They've had about 5 years out of 50 where this team actually mattered. Followed by about 15 years of crap.

I see all these posts about how to fix the Bills. While there may be some actualy good ideas in there, you are wasting your time. The Bills will NOT matter again, until Ralph is dead.

You cannot win being cheap. FA, parity and the importance of having excellent Football minds has made sure of that.

Gailey was an uninspiring choice to coach. Nix was equally unimpressive.

This team is only around now to give the illusion of hope, while keeping costs at an absolute minimum, to maximize profits until Ralph dies and it can be sold off to the highest bidder, who will then move it to greener pastures.

This has been ongoing for the last 10 years. Max out the inheritance for the family. Screw the fans.

There is no dedication to winning. This is not a billionaire owner who is out to win Super Bowls to stroke his ego. This is a for-profit primary source of income.

The fans want a winner. Ralph wants money.

There are a thousand moves the average fan could have made that would have been FAR better than what we have seen. Because our motives would be winning. Not profits.

The writing is on the wall. The team is leaving, and taking our money with it.

This is why i have not bought anything Bills related in several years, and even gave up the one thing I did buy (Sunday Ticket). It's also why I wasn't even upset the past 2 weeks.

I don't believe in my heart that this team cares about it's fans or winning football games, so there's not much to care about.


Awesome post. Odd that you would write such an emotional, well thought out post, for something you didn't care about. Almost as weird as being a frequent poster in a fan forum...

Good for you for being smart enough to walk away... you think we all would have separated ourselves like you... you didn't spend $300 on Sunday Ticket, well played. Were you not upset because you can find the game online? Or are you trying to tell us, in the fan forum you frequent, with a post that took substantial though and time, how happy you are because you quit and we should join you?

Your post pretty much said it's all a rip off and that the end is near...a sky is falling kind of post. It is also very paranoid that this has been an inside job to take our money and a bunch of other fresh ideas.

You sound like the weight of the world is off of you shoulders!!!! Are you dancing on sunshine!! What do I have to do to obsess over the rip off, and come up with paranoid delusions about how I've been swindled?

Will I be able to frequent the forum, and tell the others how happy I am and tell the others how they should do it too??? The forum where they are talking about games that I didn't watch, and don't care about, because I gave it up?

You'd think I would have gotten this by now...unfortunately I haven't. I'm fortunate you gave it up and came back to save others.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

This is what ownership wants for us the fan to turn on the team so its easier to relocate sad but very true so dont give in love this team like you would a new born baby and never not support this ****ty team thanks Go Bills

[Pinkerton Security]

Buffalo the city doens't deserve a team in the eyes of the NFL. So you can hate on me all you want.

Just remember this when the team is gone, and you are left feeling betrayed.

I can read the writing on the wall is all.

Sorry man, but if they do leave, then yes I'll feel a little betrayed. I am not pouring all my emotions into the Bills so I'm not gonna be horribly crushed, but again, I'll gladly (and perhaps sadly, but F*** it) take the enjoyment out of hoping they'll get better until the day they may leave. Its just a matter of differing opinions.

And as someone else has said, for someone who doesnt care about the team, why are you taking 20 minutes out of your life to write up a post like this?

[BertSquirtgum]

stay in canada

[Jan Reimers]

I really can't blame people who have quit on the Bills. We're all unhappy with the last 10 years.

I just wish that those who are quitting wouldn't call those of us who are still supporting the team, "suckers for punishment" and other derogatory names.

It's my choice, and the choice of many others, to remain as fans of the team. I don't think that makes us blind, stupid, or anything else.

[Extremebillsfan247]

How many times does this organiztion have to kick you in the teeth to get it?

It amazes me how many suckers for punishment there are.

Question: Had it not been for the Early 90's run, would ther even still be a team in Buffalo right now?

They've had about 5 years out of 50 where this team actually mattered. Followed by about 15 years of crap.

I see all these posts about how to fix the Bills. While there may be some actualy good ideas in there, you are wasting your time. The Bills will NOT matter again, until Ralph is dead.

You cannot win being cheap. FA, parity and the importance of having excellent Football minds has made sure of that.

Gailey was an uninspiring choice to coach. Nix was equally unimpressive.

This team is only around now to give the illusion of hope, while keeping costs at an absolute minimum, to maximize profits until Ralph dies and it can be sold off to the highest bidder, who will then move it to greener pastures.

This has been ongoing for the last 10 years. Max out the inheritance for the family. Screw the fans.

There is no dedication to winning. This is not a billionaire owner who is out to win Super Bowls to stroke his ego. This is a for-profit primary source of income.

The fans want a winner. Ralph wants money.

There are a thousand moves the average fan could have made that would have been FAR better than what we have seen. Because our motives would be winning. Not profits.

The writing is on the wall. The team is leaving, and taking our money with it.

This is why i have not bought anything Bills related in several years, and even gave up the one thing I did buy (Sunday Ticket). It's also why I wasn't even upset the past 2 weeks.

I don't believe in my heart that this team cares about it's fans or winning football games, so there's not much to care about.

That's kind of a selfish attitude on your part isn't it? No one forces you to follow this team. That's a choice you decided to make, not Ralph Wilson, and to sit here and blame him for that is kind of laughable in my opinion.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I really can't blame people who have quit on the Bills. We're all unhappy with the last 10 years.

I just wish that those who are quitting wouldn't call those of us who are still supporting the team, "suckers for punishment" and other derogatory names.

It's my choice, and the choice of many others, to remain as fans of the team. I don't think that makes us blind, stupid, or anything else.
Right, I agree. We all choose to follow this team or we wouldn't be here. Sure a lot of posters use this message board as a way to express their displeasure with how things are going with this team. But at the end of the day, no matter how angry we get, or what ever we want to call each other for doing so, when it comes down to game day there isn't a poster on this board who is a Bills fan not pulling for them to win every single Sunday. JMO..

[Buffalo Thriller]

Lol 5 years? In the 60's we were decent.

[OpIv37]

I don't know about that. For the most part the entire NFL has stated we are one of the best fans win or lose. So why is it that we don't deserve a team?

We may not deserve a crappy team but to say we don't deserve a team is just ignorant.

Because the NFL doesn't care about fans. They care about money. They used to care about fans because the money used to come from fans. But now the money comes from business partnerships, TV broadcasting rights and luxury box seats. So the fans in Buffalo deserve a team, but they can go **** themselves if the NFL finds a larger city with more big companies willing to pony up some serious dough.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Because the NFL doesn't care about fans. They care about money. They used to care about fans because the money used to come from fans. But now the money comes from business partnerships, TV broadcasting rights and luxury box seats. So the fans in Buffalo deserve a team, but they can go **** themselves if the NFL finds a larger city with more big companies willing to pony up some serious dough.
Yep that's right, the NFL is just like any other corporation, they only care about money. I could honestly see a future one day where the only way you can watch a game is via paid stream where they can force feed you commercials as they phase fans out of the live setting altogether to save money on the amounts they spend on stadiums. Even though it would be highly unlikely, I think there is a slight possibility that it could happen that way. That would suck in my opinion. lol

[OpIv37]

Yep that's right, the NFL is just like any other corporation, they only care about money. I could honestly see a future one day where the only way you can watch a game is via paid stream where they can force feed you commercials as they phase fans out of the live setting altogether to save money on the amounts they spend on stadiums. Even though it would be highly unlikely, I think there is a slight possibility that it could happen that way. That would suck in my opinion. lol

Eh, with luxury boxes and PSL's and 80,000 people paying $8 for a beer for 3 hours in 16 stadiums around the country every week, there is too much money to be had. Those stadiums do eventually pay for themselves.

But the prospect of games becoming PPV isn't outside the realm of possibility. I think it would be a bad move, but I live out of market and already pay for Sunday Ticket, so it doesn't really affect me personally anyway.

[billz83]

Nix WILL NOT be able to do what he did in San Diego in Buffalo..i mean to even think sum of u actually believe this is straight up laughable..our Owner runs the buffalo bills like the salvation army..with this approach NO GM from ANY TEAM will be successful..When RALPH WILSON is GONE then and ONLY then will the bills start getting talented players u can actually cheer for..then and only then will we have a chance to win the division and advance further in the playoffs..its the SAME STORY every single year..lets wait for next years draft..the problem is they got ******ed crackheads evaluating players and drafting these busts.

[Bill Cody]

You cannot win being cheap. FA, parity and the importance of having excellent Football minds has made sure of that.

Gailey was an uninspiring choice to coach. Nix was equally unimpressive.

This team is only around now to give the illusion of hope, while keeping costs at an absolute minimum, to maximize profits until Ralph dies and it can be sold off to the highest bidder, who will then move it to greener pastures.




Couple problems with your argument:

1) the Bills are in the middle of the pack player salary wise, so does that mean the other teams spending less have no interest in winning either?

2) We have a terrible roster. Exactly why would a top coach choose to come here?

If you want to argue the Bills have been incompetant I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone. But don't tell us there are not enough resources available for a winner, not buying that. Think of it this way: the spread between the "big market" teams in football is far less than it is in baseball. Yet every year with shrewd management the Minnesota Twins make the playoffs with a budget less than half of other "big market" playoff teams. They rarely sign any free agents and often let their own talent move on when they become eligible for free agency. How do they do it? They draft well and they coach well with a certain philosophy that goes throughout their system.

How about the Bills? We actually get to draft ahead of most teams year in and year out. Yet the idiots we've hired to do the picking have picked mostly losers and there doesn't seem to be any philosophy of what a "Bills player" should look like. I have not ruled out that Buddy Nix could change that. But until we string together 4 or 5 excellent drafts nothing else really matters. If we build though the draft that will attract free agents and higher quality coaches. In the absence of that the cycle of failure continues. I believe Ralph is incompetant but spending more is well down the list of problems here, the biggest issue BY FAR is drafting better players and that costs nothing except brain power. As for the kind of patronizing tone to your post, not sure why you bother to post if that's the way you feel. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, eh?

[OpIv37]

Couple problems with your argument:

1) the Bills are in the middle of the pack player salary wise, so does that mean the other teams spending less have no interest in winning either?

2) We have a terrible roster. Exactly why would a top coach choose to come here?

If you want to argue the Bills have been incompetant I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone. But don't tell us there are not enough resources available for a winner, not buying that. Think of it this way: the spread between the "big market" teams in football is far less than it is in baseball. Yet every year with shrewd management the Minnesota Twins make the playoffs with a budget less than half of other "big market" playoff teams. They rarely sign any free agents and often let their own talent move on when they become eligible for free agency. How do they do it? They draft well and they coach well with a certain philosophy that goes throughout their system.

How about the Bills? We actually get to draft ahead of most teams year in and year out. Yet the idiots we've hired to do the picking have picked mostly losers and there doesn't seem to be any philosophy of what a "Bills player" should look like. I have not ruled out that Buddy Nix could change that. But until we string together 4 or 5 excellent drafts nothing else really matters. If we build though the draft that will attract free agents and higher quality coaches. In the absence of that the cycle of failure continues. I believe Ralph is incompetant but spending more is well down the list of problems here, the biggest issue BY FAR is drafting better players and that costs nothing except brain power. As for the kind of patronizing tone to your post, not sure why you bother to post if that's the way you feel. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, eh?

You missed the point. Ralph isn't necessarily cheap when it comes to players. There's a salary cap and a minimum salary (well not this year, but generally), so he can only go so low anyway.

But Ralph cuts corners when it comes to paying for FO personnel and coaches. And when he does want to pay up, the best football minds won't come here because they don't want to deal with his meddling. So, the craptacularity of our players is directly related to the fact that Ralph is cheap about paying football minds. Get some good FO people and coaches in here, and our drafts and FA acquisitions will improve drastically. Until Ralph is willing to pay for good football people, he can spend a zillion dollars a year on players and it won't make a difference.

[better days]

Because the NFL doesn't care about fans. They care about money. They used to care about fans because the money used to come from fans. But now the money comes from business partnerships, TV broadcasting rights and luxury box seats. So the fans in Buffalo deserve a team, but they can go **** themselves if the NFL finds a larger city with more big companies willing to pony up some serious dough.

A great deal of the money the NFL derives is from the network TV contracts & the Ticket. Without fans, that money is not going to be there.

The luxury box seats is money that owners do not have to share with their fellow owners, so that is GRAVY for teams like the Cowboys, Redskins, N.Y. But without FANS the NFL will be like the NBA & NHL only with a much higher overhead. The money from TV Networks & the Sunday Ticket will not be there if the fans do not watch on TV.

[Bill Cody]

You missed the point. Ralph isn't necessarily cheap when it comes to players. There's a salary cap and a minimum salary (well not this year, but generally), so he can only go so low anyway.

But Ralph cuts corners when it comes to paying for FO personnel and coaches. And when he does want to pay up, the best football minds won't come here because they don't want to deal with his meddling. So, the craptacularity of our players is directly related to the fact that Ralph is cheap about paying football minds. Get some good FO people and coaches in here, and our drafts and FA acquisitions will improve drastically. Until Ralph is willing to pay for good football people, he can spend a zillion dollars a year on players and it won't make a difference.

FO personnel are not particularly expensive. Could even Ralph have afforded Scott Pioli? Sure he could have. And that's a guy that probably got top tier GM money. If ralph was willing to pay to get Shanahan or Cowher (and he tried) he sure as hell could pay a smart guy to buy groceries.

[ddaryl]

I stick around because my heart and soul is attached to both franchises that begin with Buffalo.

It's not a choice... they own my ass and I'm powerless to stop it.

[Canadian'eh!]

Because the NFL doesn't care about fans. They care about money. They used to care about fans because the money used to come from fans. But now the money comes from business partnerships, TV broadcasting rights and luxury box seats. So the fans in Buffalo deserve a team, but they can go **** themselves if the NFL finds a larger city with more big companies willing to pony up some serious dough.

Exactly my point.

I'm not hating on the Fans of this team... Heck i can't bring myself to cheer for any other team.

But I feel very bad for those who haven't figured out that the team and the NFL no longer cares about THEM.

Obviously Ralph didn't want to be the one to take the Bills away from Buffalo. But he also has no dedication to truly winning them a Super Bowl either.

But OP is right. The NFL figured out a LONG time ago, that there will always be fans. It's just a matter of how much money they can make off them.

The biggest chunk of that money comes from all the other sources. But Buffalo isn't making them as much as a city like LA would. So when the time comes they WILL approve the team being old to someone with relocation plans. Because it's a BUSINESS, and all the diehard fans in a city that has great fan level support doesn't mean anything compared the the hundreds of millions more they would make.

Blackouts, Exclusive deals with EA and DTV.... all decisions that say screw you to a lot of fans, for the sake of making just a bit more $$. They will do the same to the small market teams when the time comes.


So you can hate on me for telling you the truth all you want. (and I will GLADLY stay in Canada thanks, and no, I won't stop posting because you don't like the truth.)

I truly feel bad for all of us fans, because we are going to (continue) to be screwed over by an owner and NFL that is in this for the money and not us.

I feel even worse for myself since i cna't even enjoy football at the level i used to because I know the team i want to win never will