Rationalizing the Kelsay signing...

[Mahdi]

I can't believe I'm actually going to try and do this but I will. Don't get me wrong, I hate the extension but I think I am understanding why they are doing this....

First, read these two articles....


http://phinphanatic.com/2010/07/07/dolphin-3-4-defense/


http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11608/bills-might-model-3-4-d-after-sabans

From what I am piecing together through research on why this happened to us it looks like they like Kelsay as a hybrid guy that can easily switch from 3-4 to 4-3 looks. Everyone, including the coaching staff know that Kelsay is not a pass rusher but he does do a good job holding his side and making tackles. If you look at the DL rankings for 2009 he is ranked among the highest of all NFL DLmen for tackles. He is good a shedding blocks and making tackles, that is for sure.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

At the end of the day football is about tackling so I guess Kelsay is tops in that department and once they get a real pass rusher on the other side or Maybin turns the corner (literally) we will have a balanced LB corps.

Again, I know he's not the best option but I think the Bills see Kelsay as their Matt Roth or Jarret Johnson.

[billz83]

UM NO Kelsay is garbage and i know u got a headache trying to rationalize moves by a buncha crackheads...u cant rationalize their thinking because it is done while they are smokin rocks...ralph wilsonz decade of FAILURE continues with his most recognizable FAILURE chris kelsay...the scrub cant do **** right..we cut captain checkdown and then give kelsay an extension?!?! ive seen crackheads make better decisions then that them rockz they smokin must be outta this world..

[Mr. Pink]

Matt Roth can actually get after the passer however.

[Mahdi]

Matt Roth can actually get after the passer however.
He has zero sacks this year and starts for Cleveland. Matt Roth is not a better pass rusher than Kelsay.

[trapezeus]

kelsays stats don't ever show how many tackles he is holding onto 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. F him.

i get that you want to look at this and say, "someone somewhere must be finding some logic to make such a stupid decision." but the truth is: there isn't. The bills do things just because it's a different day. tomorrow could bring the release of moorman ("we are trying to go a different direction"), the signing of losman ("we think we can work with him"), trading for a 7th round pick ("draft picks are essential and good value can be found everywhere.")

[Mr. Pink]

He has zero sacks this year and starts for Cleveland. Matt Roth is not a better pass rusher than Kelsay.


Roth had 4 sacks last year with Cleveland in 6 games.

[Mahdi]

Roth had 4 sacks last year with Cleveland in 6 games.
So. Does that mean he was going to end up with 12? His production at the NFL level has never been that of a pass rusher. He is a balanced OLB/DE, like Kelsay.

[Mr. Pink]

So. Does that mean he was going to end up with 12? His production at the NFL level has never been that of a pass rusher. He is a balanced OLB/DE, like Kelsay.


He's started 29 games and has 16.5 sacks over his career.

In comparison, Kelsay has started 88 games and has 22 sacks.

But yeah, he's not a better pass rusher, you're right.

In addition, Roth is on a one year 1.8 million dollar contract as opposed to the ridiculousness Kelsay gets paid.

[GreedoII]

He will be released at some point because that's what this FO does. It's probably cap friendly and there is no cap next yr. Plus how much is he getting up front. It could be a back end deal. He will be released next yr. Wait and see. If they did what they did to Edwards what makes you think they won't do the same with this worthless POS.

[EDS]

He's started 29 games and has 16.5 sacks over his career.

In comparison, Kelsay has started 88 games and has 22 sacks.

But yeah, he's not a better pass rusher, you're right.

In addition, Roth is on a one year 1.8 million dollar contract as opposed to the ridiculousness Kelsay gets paid.

Plus it is not like Roth is that good anyway, so comparing Kelsay to him is hardly a feather in Kelsay's cap. If we were comparing him to James Harrison it would be one thing.

[Mr. Pink]

Plus it is not like Roth is that good anyway, so comparing Kelsay to him is hardly a feather in Kelsay's cap. If we were comparing him to James Harrison it would be one thing.


I wasn't trying to say Roth was good. He's been a colossal disappointment as he was also once a 2nd round draft choice-that's where the similarities end between him and Kelsay though.

[EDS]

I wasn't trying to say Roth was good. He's been a colossal disappointment as he was also once a 2nd round draft choice-that's where the similarities end between him and Kelsay though.

I realize you were not saying he was any good. Just pointing out the folly in comparing the two - as in, so what if he is as good as Roth.

[EDS]

I can't believe I'm actually going to try and do this but I will. Don't get me wrong, I hate the extension but I think I am understanding why they are doing this....

First, read these two articles....


http://phinphanatic.com/2010/07/07/dolphin-3-4-defense/


http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11608/bills-might-model-3-4-d-after-sabans

From what I am piecing together through research on why this happened to us it looks like they like Kelsay as a hybrid guy that can easily switch from 3-4 to 4-3 looks. Everyone, including the coaching staff know that Kelsay is not a pass rusher but he does do a good job holding his side and making tackles. If you look at the DL rankings for 2009 he is ranked among the highest of all NFL DLmen for tackles. He is good a shedding blocks and making tackles, that is for sure.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

At the end of the day football is about tackling so I guess Kelsay is tops in that department and once they get a real pass rusher on the other side or Maybin turns the corner (literally) we will have a balanced LB corps.

Again, I know he's not the best option but I think the Bills see Kelsay as their Matt Roth or Jarret Johnson.

All 4 starting buffalo defensive lineman last year were amoungst the "leaders" in tackles for defensive lineman, yet the Bills had one of the worst run defenses (if not the worst) in the league.

Hmm.

[Ickybaluky]

All 4 starting buffalo defensive lineman last year were amoungst the "leaders" in tackles for defensive lineman, yet the Bills had one of the worst run defenses (if not the worst) in the league.

Hmm.

Tackles aren't an official stat, which is why they vary so much depending on where you find them. They really need to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Commissioner]

I would be surprised if Kelsay actually started on another team.

This a massively dumb signing and is another example of why the Bills will continue to be irrelevant in the NFL. We make millionaires out of guys that would make other rosters.

[Philagape]

Tackles aren't an official stat, which is why they vary so much depending on where you find them. They really need to be taken with a grain of salt.

The most useless stat in football.

[imbondz]

leading in tackling just means your defense is always on the field.

[Philagape]

I mean, in every game, on every team, on every play except touchdowns, somebody's got to get the tackles.
It's a zero-sum stat ... it's not like yards or touchdowns, which don't happen for lesser players.

[Philagape]

leading in tackling just means your defense is always on the field.

Or that teams are running and throwing toward you.

[Mahdi]

The most useless stat in football.
I don't agree that it's the most useless stat in football.

There is a reason Ray Lewis, Fletcher and Patrick Willis are always at the top of the list in tackles.

[Philagape]

I don't agree that it's the most useless stat in football.

There is a reason Ray Lewis, Fletcher and Patrick Willis are always at the top of the list in tackles.

It's a one-way street: Good players may get more tackles, but that doesn't mean tackles define who's good. Being a good player is just one of several reasons one may get a lot of tackles. Remember this is a thread about Chris Kelsay; you really think he belongs in the same conversation as those guys?

[Mahdi]

It's a one-way street: Good players may get more tackles, but that doesn't mean tackles define who's good. Being a good player is just one of several reasons one may get a lot of tackles. Remember this is a thread about Chris Kelsay; you really think he belongs in the same conversation as those guys?
No I don't think he belongs in the same conversation. But tackles is not a useless stat. And Kelsay is a good tackler and he makes quite a few because he sheds blocks and gets after the ball carrier. I'm not saying he is worth it, but I think they just want a guy with his production as a strong side OLB and a guy that can flip to DE easily.

[madness]

No I don't think he belongs in the same conversation. But tackles is not a useless stat. And Kelsay is a good tackler and he makes quite a few because he sheds blocks and gets after the ball carrier. I'm not saying he is worth it, but I think they just want a guy with his production as a strong side OLB and a guy that can flip to DE easily.

I have no issue with the extension. He barely got a raise out of the deal and unfortunately he's the only stability we currently have at OLB. It's also ridiculous to throw him under the bus three regular games into the transition to a LB. It reminds me when everybody bashed him the first time around even though he played through a couple seasons banged up. Last year, he stayed relatively healthy and put together a productive season.

He's nothing more than an average player but last time I checked we aren't making a playoff run let alone a run at a winning record and even those teams have no issues re-signing average players. We don't need to make any more holes than we already have on this team.

[Beebe's Kid]

I can't believe I'm actually going to try and do this but I will. Don't get me wrong, I hate the extension but I think I am understanding why they are doing this....

First, read these two articles....


http://phinphanatic.com/2010/07/07/dolphin-3-4-defense/


http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11608/bills-might-model-3-4-d-after-sabans

From what I am piecing together through research on why this happened to us it looks like they like Kelsay as a hybrid guy that can easily switch from 3-4 to 4-3 looks. Everyone, including the coaching staff know that Kelsay is not a pass rusher but he does do a good job holding his side and making tackles. If you look at the DL rankings for 2009 he is ranked among the highest of all NFL DLmen for tackles. He is good a shedding blocks and making tackles, that is for sure.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

At the end of the day football is about tackling so I guess Kelsay is tops in that department and once they get a real pass rusher on the other side or Maybin turns the corner (literally) we will have a balanced LB corps.

Again, I know he's not the best option but I think the Bills see Kelsay as their Matt Roth or Jarret Johnson.

Are you trying to tell me that they didn't resign Kelsay to ruin my life, or alienate the fan base, or to intentionally usher in another decade of futility?

If I didn't know better, I'd say your post makes sense, but this is clearly a conspiracy.

[Historian]

Maybe they're planning on putting him on a liquid diet and slimming him down so he can play strong safety...

[stuckincincy]

Tackles aren't an official stat, which is why they vary so much depending on where you find them. They really need to be taken with a grain of salt.

IIRC, it's the team that assigns credit. I've read here and there that SF is noted for padding. If you believe them, LB Willis should be parting the Red Sea sometime soon.

[mysticsoto]

I have no issue with the extension. He barely got a raise out of the deal and unfortunately he's the only stability we currently have at OLB. It's also ridiculous to throw him under the bus three regular games into the transition to a LB. It reminds me when everybody bashed him the first time around even though he played through a couple seasons banged up. Last year, he stayed relatively healthy and put together a productive season.

He's nothing more than an average player but last time I checked we aren't making a playoff run let alone a run at a winning record and even those teams have no issues re-signing average players. We don't need to make any more holes than we already have on this team.

I disagree with this...what we don't need to do is keep mediocre (at best) players rather than trying to upgrade. Instead of extending him, maybe we should have looked around the league to see who might be worth bringing in to upgrade him - almost any joe-schmoe's an upgrade! Either that, or use a 3rd or 4th rd pick to upgrade the positon. Quite frankly, I see the our picks needing to go: 1st QB, 2nd OT, 3rd LB. Kelsay does not fit on this team. He is neither a 3-4 DE nor is he fast enough to be a 3-4 LB. He just doesn't fit, is a waste of a roster spot, a waste of a player, and a waste of money!!!

[Zero]

I disagree with this...what we don't need to do is keep mediocre (at best) players rather than trying to upgrade. Instead of extending him, maybe we should have looked around the league to see who might be worth bringing in to upgrade him - almost any joe-schmoe's an upgrade! Either that, or use a 3rd or 4th rd pick to upgrade the positon. Quite frankly, I see the our picks needing to go: 1st QB, 2nd OT, 3rd LB. Kelsay does not fit on this team. He is neither a 3-4 DE nor is he fast enough to be a 3-4 LB. He just doesn't fit, is a waste of a roster spot, a waste of a player, and a waste of money!!!

Agreed! Anyway you slice it this is a bonehead move that only serves to overpay a player for doing a mediocre job, at best, at his position. Any LOGICAL GM would wait until the end of the season, see what players are available that could potentially provide an upgrade or more VALUE, and then make a move. Just lump this together with the ten million aother genius decisions made by this organization <heavy sarcasm>

Same ****, different day with your Buffalo Bills...

[Mr. Pink]

He has zero sacks this year and starts for Cleveland. Matt Roth is not a better pass rusher than Kelsay.


Matt Roth 5 tackles 2 sacks today.

Go go rationalizing the Kelsay signing though buddy!