Schobel is missed

[HAMMER]

How do all you people that couldn't wait for Schobel to leave feel about our pass rush now? It is markedly worse than last year, QB's are camping out, making smores, and shredding our vaunted secondary.

[Buffalo Thriller]

I loved schobel

[RoscoeMagic]

Do you people EVER stop *****ing? Good God, you sound like hormonal teenage girls.

[RoscoeMagic]

Seriously though, I loved Schobel. He was our only pass rush for the whole decade, which makes Kelsay's sucking opposite him look so much worse. Schobel still had 10 sacks last year and people hated on him like he was Ryan Denney. It's a joke, I never understood the hate for the man. It's so obvious we need a pass rusher of his caliber right now.

[OpIv37]

Two points:

1. I seem to remember our pass rush struggling WITH Schobel the past several years.
2. Notice how out of place Kelsay looks in this new D? There is no way to know for sure, but I suspect Schobel would look just as confused and out of place.

I will say this, if I had to choose between the two, I'd definitely take Schobel over Kelsay, even if it costs more. But the reality is that we're in a transition period with the D and we need to shed as much of the leftover 4-3 personnel as possible. We'd be slightly better in the short term with Schobel but no better off in the long-term.

[Mahdi]

Pass rush hasn't changed.

[YardRat]

Who ??

[HAMMER]

Pass rush hasn't changed.

It has, if you can't see that you aren't watching. It was not stellar by any means but it is worse. People often mistake sack numbers for productivity, you have to get pressure and make a QB uncomfortable. We aren't getting any pressure.

[Beebe's Kid]

It has, if you can't see that you aren't watching. It was not stellar by any means but it is worse. People often mistake sack numbers for productivity, you have to get pressure and make a QB uncomfortable. We aren't getting any pressure.

My biggest contention with Schobel was that I never saw him chasing a QB out of the pocket. He either got owned, or got one of his sacks. His sacks were rarely game changing...which has been difficult to do, but there were moments we could have used a sack, or some pressure to force a turnover.

I didn't like the BS Schobel was putting the team through this year. I wouldn't have had a problem if he would have just come back and played, but he made a scene out of it.

I would think that would have been a consensus, but he was one of our better players, making him the target for unwarranted angst.

[Buffalo Thriller]

The pass rush has changed... how many sacks have we even gotten? like 2 in 3 games?

[HAMMER]

My biggest contention with Schobel was that I never saw him chasing a QB out of the pocket. He either got owned, or got one of his sacks. His sacks were rarely game changing...which has been difficult to do, but there were moments we could have used a sack, or some pressure to force a turnover.

I didn't like the BS Schobel was putting the team through this year. I wouldn't have had a problem if he would have just come back and played, but he made a scene out of it.

I would think that would have been a consensus, but he was one of our better players, making him the target for unwarranted angst.

I guess the bottom line is he really didn't want to be here. But my point is that he was a more important piece of our defense than people wanted to admit.

[OpIv37]

I guess the bottom line is he really didn't want to be here. But my point is that he was a more important piece of our defense than people wanted to admit.

that just proves how very average our team has been for the last decade.

[Beebe's Kid]

I guess the bottom line is he really didn't want to be here. But my point is that he was a more important piece of our defense than people wanted to admit.

No doubt...

Being on the defense on this team is the second hardest job, behind QB. I guess unless your name is Stroud...then you can make a small fortune, and do nothing.


I wonder if people forget to ***** about him because he is ****ing invisible?

[OpIv37]

The pass rush has changed... how many sacks have we even gotten? like 2 in 3 games?

It's a different defense so it's comparing apples to oranges.

Would we have more sacks if Schobel played? It's possible, but it's just as possible that he'd be completely lost in this D, like Kelsay.

[Beebe's Kid]

The pass rush has changed... how many sacks have we even gotten? like 2 in 3 games?
4

Poz (that no good piece of **** mother ****er)
Scott
Williams
Ellis

Half of our sack production is from 2nd string...

[ddaryl]

don't miss him at all...

I, unlike the majority here knew there would be growing pains this year, and I'm still only interested in seeing how the team improves itself from beginning to end this year.

Let Maybin and others have those reps.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Our pass rush with Maybin right now is as good as when we had Schobel injured on the bench.

No change.

[HAMMER]

It's a different defense so it's comparing apples to oranges.

Would we have more sacks if Schobel played? It's possible, but it's just as possible that he'd be completely lost in this D, like Kelsay.

Let's reserve judgement until we've played eight games in this new defense. It takes time, they will get better every week. Took Green Bay 8 or 9 games to start playing well last year after they switched.

[trapezeus]

i'm with ddaryl...but its still frustrating. I guess the pats game was an improvement, yet the defense went backwards. everything has to move forward together. perhaps they come out of the bye with more cohesion.

[Mahdi]

It has, if you can't see that you aren't watching. It was not stellar by any means but it is worse. People often mistake sack numbers for productivity, you have to get pressure and make a QB uncomfortable. We aren't getting any pressure.
Exactly, you said it... people mistake sack numbers for productivity. Schobel had good numbers last year but his overall productivity was not there. He did not pressure QBs, get in their faces and get knock downs and pressures.

Last year we gave Brady just as much time as we are giving him now. Nothing has changed, our pass rush is just as bad.

[HAMMER]

Exactly, you said it... people mistake sack numbers for productivity. Schobel had good numbers last year but his overall productivity was not there. He did not pressure QBs, get in their faces and get knock downs and pressures.

Last year we gave Brady just as much time as we are giving him now. Nothing has changed, our pass rush is just as bad.

Not true, we had more pressure last year as evidenced by the number of picks QB's threw against us. We can all argue about this till the cows come home but bottom line is we suck.

[Mahdi]

Not true, we had more pressure last year as evidenced by the number of picks QB's threw against us. We can all argue about this till the cows come home but bottom line is we suck.
We didn't pressure QBs at all last year. Our picks were a result of good play-making in the secondary.

Like you said, we suck at bringing pressure with or without Schobel. I suppose we could say that we were marginally better last year but the difference is very slight.

[ChristopherWalken]

I don't think Schobel was right for this defense. While he was servicable on the pass rush, he was horrendous against the run and would be equally bad if needed in coverage situations.

Sure I miss his sacking abilities, but in the end he was just another high-motored guy that provided a mediocre option at DE.

[justasportsfan]

IMO Schobel was under appreciated here because people put the blame on him as far as the lack of pass rush instead of looking elsewhere on the defense. It's like people doidn't appreciate him because he had to fill Bruce Smiths shoes which isn't fair. Whatever it is he achieved here he did without much help.

[RoscoeMagic]

I don't think Schobel was right for this defense. While he was servicable on the pass rush, he was horrendous against the run and would be equally bad if needed in coverage situations.

Sure I miss his sacking abilities, but in the end he was just another high-motored guy that provided a mediocre option at DE.

I don't know how you can call Schobel a mediocre DE. I'm sorry, I just don't.

Kelsay is mediocre. If you wanna call Schobel slightly above-average, fine, I don't agree, but fine. Just look at his sack numbers, no mediocre player can put up those sack numbers.

[Mahdi]

I don't know how you can call Schobel a mediocre DE. I'm sorry, I just don't.

Kelsay is mediocre. If you wanna call Schobel slightly above-average, fine, I don't agree, but fine. Just look at his sack numbers, no mediocre player can put up those sack numbers.
This is a prime example of stats being misleading. Schobel got sacks but if you compare him with the best pass rushers the difference is that they get their numbers but they also get plenty of hurries and knockdowns. Schobel would typically be involved in 1 play a game on pass defense which was his sack, good pass rushers are involved continually throughout the game and contribute to ending drives on a regular basis. Not Schobel.

He worked hard and get gets in on plenty of tackles in the run game, but he was not a pass rush threat.

[Akhippo]

With the like of B Smith and other very good pash rushers, when the time warranted a hurry, pressure or sack, you could be fairly confident that they would bring the heat or get doubled and open it up for someone else.

With Schobel you had to hope the QB had to hold to ball an extra second or wash flushed. It took time for him to come from the backside of the QB.

Schobel was solid and high motor. Explosive and game changing? Not in my opinion.

[RoscoeMagic]

Our pass rush with Maybin right now is as good as when we had Schobel injured on the bench.

No change.

Schobel's games played since he was drafted:

2001: 16
2002: 16
2003: 16
2004: 16
2005: 16
2006: 16
2007: 16
2008: 5
2009: 16

[RoscoeMagic]

This is a prime example of stats being misleading. Schobel got sacks but if you compare him with the best pass rushers the difference is that they get their numbers but they also get plenty of hurries and knockdowns. Schobel would typically be involved in 1 play a game on pass defense which was his sack, good pass rushers are involved continually throughout the game and contribute to ending drives on a regular basis. Not Schobel.

He worked hard and get gets in on plenty of tackles in the run game, but he was not a pass rush threat.

Still was not mediocre. He was IMO much better than the average NFL DE. The guy only had one season where he missed any time, he was solid as a rock as our RE. He had 4 seasons of 10+ sacks. I don't understand the lack of respect for the man.

I'm not comparing him with the best of the NFL pass rushers. I'm comparing him to the entire NFL pass rushers. He is well above average, not mediocre.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How do all you people that couldn't wait for Schobel to leave feel about our pass rush now? It is markedly worse than last year, QB's are camping out, making smores, and shredding our vaunted secondary.
I agree he is missed but I don't really care because I want the younger guys to play. We would stink either way.

[better days]

Still was not mediocre. He was IMO much better than the average NFL DE. The guy only had one season where he missed any time, he was solid as a rock as our RE. He had 4 seasons of 10+ sacks. I don't understand the lack of respect for the man.

I'm not comparing him with the best of the NFL pass rushers. I'm comparing him to the entire NFL pass rushers. He is well above average, not mediocre.

Well, if you just compare him to other Bills after Bruce, he looks even better by comparison.

[Mahdi]

Still was not mediocre. He was IMO much better than the average NFL DE. The guy only had one season where he missed any time, he was solid as a rock as our RE. He had 4 seasons of 10+ sacks. I don't understand the lack of respect for the man.

I'm not comparing him with the best of the NFL pass rushers. I'm comparing him to the entire NFL pass rushers. He is well above average, not mediocre.
His stats are above average. His impact on games is mediocre. How many times have you sat down after a Bills game and said "yeah, Schobel totally dominated that game!"

He was paid to be a pass rusher. He is not a rusher though, he rarely rushes plays and is ALWAYS dominated by the better OTs in the league. Matt Light handled Schobel easily for years.

[delectrolux]

Matt Light handled Schobel easily for years.

Well, Schobel has sacked Brady 12 times and that's more than any other defensive player in the NFL. So Matt Light's not the best example of someone handling Schobel...

[RoscoeMagic]

His stats are above average. His impact on games is mediocre. How many times have you sat down after a Bills game and said "yeah, Schobel totally dominated that game!"

He was paid to be a pass rusher. He is not a rusher though, he rarely rushes plays and is ALWAYS dominated by the better OTs in the league. Matt Light handled Schobel easily for years.
No his stats are GREAT. His impact is above average (if you wanna say that). You think 78 sacks in 9 years is above average? That's ****ing good for a guy who never had anyone opposite him, no pass rushing threat at LB, and teams were winning against us so they got to rush the ball more. He was constantly double teamed and chipped by the TE and RBs.

When Aaron Maybin has 78 sacks after 9 seasons, get back to me. We'll see how many of you are all over his junk and still hate Schobel.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

No his stats are GREAT. His impact is above average (if you wanna say that). You think 78 sacks in 9 years is above average? That's ****ing good for a guy who never had anyone opposite him, no pass rushing threat at LB, and teams were winning against us so they got to rush the ball more. He was constantly double teamed and chipped by the TE and RBs.

When Aaron Maybin has 78 sacks after 9 seasons, get back to me. We'll see how many of you are all ovr his junk and still hate Schobel.

while i do see and understand your point. there is one thing in which you are totally wrong.... nobody, and i do mean nobody is all over aaron maybin's junk

[better days]

while i do see and understand your point. there is one thing in which you are totally wrong.... nobody, and i do mean nobody is all over aaron maybin's junk

He is saying people will be............if Maybin puts up numbers like Schobel.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

He is saying people will be............if Maybin puts up numbers like Schobel.

oh... makes sense now. my bad.

[Syderick]

I liked Aaron Schobel, he was a decent player.

[lordofgun]

mmmm...smores.

[ChristopherWalken]

I don't know how you can call Schobel a mediocre DE. I'm sorry, I just don't.

Kelsay is mediocre. If you wanna call Schobel slightly above-average, fine, I don't agree, but fine. Just look at his sack numbers, no mediocre player can put up those sack numbers.


Well if he was closer to the total package, then yes, I could agree with you. Fact is, he isn't.

Once again, he plays well on passing plays but he was horrendous against the run. One negates the other equating to the mediocre label.

Not to mention he would fit like a square peg in a round hole in this defense. He couldn't cover a route to save his life.

[billz83]

when was the last time this team had a top 5 pass rush or even top 10?!?! Schobel was the bills best pass rusher and even he got sick and tired of this organizations incompetence..