Forget QB...

[ublinkwescore]

we have to solidify this line otherwise, we're gonna continue to ruin careers behind center. start by getting a franchise left T. Let's go ape$#!t for OL and see what Brohm, Fitz, or even with some polishing even Brown can do with more than .5 of a second (if that) while dropping back.

[Mad Max]

Gotta disagree for many reasons.

A.) A good enough QB can carry a team, no OT can, not Jonathan Ogden,not Tony Boselli,not O. Pace, the position is not by itself a game changing position whereas QB is.

B.) Franchise QB's sell tickets Lineman don't (something Ralph is going to start worrying about really soon).

C.) It takes time to develop a QB, so the longer we wait to draft him the longer we suck.

D.) It's harder to find a stud QB than a stud Lineman. So if we see him we gotta grab him.

E.) We have young WR's, let's let them grow with our Franchise QB...how about some Aikman to Irvin type mojo for 10 years? Montana to Rice?

...the list goes on.

[Michael82]

After seeing what Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford and Sam Bradford are doing/did with ****ty lines....I completely disagree. I'm more convinced than ever before that we need to find our franchise quarterback and build the team around him starting in 2011. I want Ryan Mallett, but I would be fine with Andrew Luck or even Jake Locker.

[airdog32]

Gotta disagree for many reasons.

A.) A good enough QB can carry a team, no OT can, not Jonathan Ogden,not Tony Boselli,not O. Pace, the position is not by itself a game changing position whereas QB is.

B.) Franchise QB's sell tickets Lineman don't (something Ralph is going to start worrying about really soon).

C.) It takes time to develop a QB, so the longer we wait to draft him the longer we suck.

D.) It's harder to find a stud QB than a stud Lineman. So if we see him we gotta grab him.

E.) We have young WR's, let's let them grow with our Franchise QB...how about some Aikman to Irvin type mojo for 10 years? Montana to Rice?

...the list goes on.
must agree the line is one of the better part of this team this year with a horrible year I think they can get some contanuaty and will be better for as the saying goes you have to hit rock bottom to get any better and we are at rock bottom. A franchise QB will change the direction of this organization such as it did when Buffalo drafted Jimbo 25+ years ago and like the Colts did with Manning..

[BuffaloBlitz83]

After seeing what Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford and Sam Bradford are doing/did with ****ty lines....I completely disagree. I'm more convinced than ever before that we need to find our franchise quarterback and build the team around him starting in 2011. I want Ryan Mallett, but I would be fine with Andrew Luck or even Jake Locker.

Stafford hasn't proved anything yet. He had 20 INTs last year and has been injured twice likely due to that OL. But I agree with rest of guys. Bradford is making it look smart

[Jan Reimers]

A great QB can overcome a multitude of sins. Look at Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. They make average WRs look like Pro Bowlers, they win with very average running games, they succeed behind quite ordinary O-lines, and they hide mediocre defenses.

[Saratoga Slim]

I agree with all those that disagree.

With any luck, this will be the highest draft pick we have for a long time, in a year with some decent QB options.

It's time for Buffalo to find their first franchise QB since Kelly.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Would Peyton Manning be the same without Jeff Saturday? Would Jim Kelly have been the same without Kent Hull? Would Bart Starr have been the same without Jim Ringo? I don't think so. You can call them average at best, but the line is incredibly important in this league.

[TedMock]

Would Peyton Manning be the same without Jeff Saturday? Would Jim Kelly have been the same without Kent Hull? Would Bart Starr have been the same without Jim Ringo? I don't think so. You can call them average at best, but the line is incredibly important in this league.

Well, you're right - we do need a new center. I wouldn't draft one in the 1st, but we do need one.

Seriously though, I don't actually think Bell is playing that bad. He's not a franchise LT at this point, but he's not the biggest concern on the OL. Center and RT have been downright horrendous.

Truth is you need both an OL and a QB to succeed. Chicken or the egg, I guess. IF a QB is worth taking at our 1st pick, then that's most likely where I would go right now. We are also in desperate need of LB help, so I wouldn't be completely opposed if that person is number one on the board either. Most likely though it's going to be a QB. I just hope we grab the right one. Right now I still like Luck, but there's a lot of football left and I never lock into a particular order of preference until April anyway.

[Bill Cody]

Would Peyton Manning be the same without Jeff Saturday? Would Jim Kelly have been the same without Kent Hull? Would Bart Starr have been the same without Jim Ringo? I don't think so. You can call them average at best, but the line is incredibly important in this league.

For the record Jeff Saturday was an undrafted FA. Kent Hull and Jim Ringo were 7th rounders. OL is very important but it's easier to find OL later in the draft than franchise QB's.

Bills fans are either off the ledge or their toes hanging off. If the Bills go 2-14 and draft OL instead of a franchise signal caller my guess is someone finally goes postal on Ralph Wilson. But I'd rate the odds of that happening at .0001%.

[ublinkwescore]

are you guys watching the same games I'm seeing - we're gonna lead the league in sacks given up - no QB can survive that kind of onslaught... and did I just hear someone call the pats and colts OL's average? you're kidding right? both of those lines have at least two probowlers on them so try again.

[topher180]

are you guys watching the same games I'm seeing - we're gonna lead the league in sacks given up - no QB can survive that kind of onslaught... and did I just hear someone call the pats and colts OL's average? you're kidding right? both of those lines have at least two probowlers on them so try again.

Dude you are missing the point, the two are somewhat interdependant. A good QB, who makes plays, pressure or no pressure, makes everyone around them look better. This includes linemen.

Many of us have been super fustrated at baseless arguments like this in the past, but I think this thread is indicative of the overall fan base now. The majority of fans recognize, after years of poor play at that position, that it's where we need to start.

Name a good team with a bad QB. Very difficult to make an argument when you view it that way.

[ublinkwescore]

Gotta disagree for many reasons.

A.) A good enough QB can carry a team, no OT can, not Jonathan Ogden,not Tony Boselli,not O. Pace, the position is not by itself a game changing position whereas QB is.

No QB is going to carry a team if he's getting beat up all day - it's just not happening - see the Pats Giants SB - brady got sacked 5 times in that game - result - giants win. BTW, Eli Manning had superior pass protection

B.) Franchise QB's sell tickets Lineman don't (something Ralph is going to start worrying about really soon).

The bills need to stop worrying about selling tickets, and start worrying about winning first - because winning is ultimately the best way to put @$$es in seats.

C.) It takes time to develop a QB, so the longer we wait to draft him the longer we suck.

We've seen even Fitz make a case for my point - when he's had time, people (not seriously I'm sure) have compared him to Joe Montana - if we fix this line, what if we've already got our franchise QB? you can't say that you know for a fact that we don't because this line is not giving anyone time behind center to show what they can do.

D.) It's harder to find a stud QB than a stud Lineman. So if we see him we gotta grab him.

I'm not gonna debate this, I do agree, but if we do grab him, we need to sit him and groom him until our OL instills some confidence that he's not gonna get hit before he even hands off to a RB.

E.) We have young WR's, let's let them grow with our Franchise QB...how about some Aikman to Irvin type mojo for 10 years? Montana to Rice?

We have mostly crap gimmick type WRs and Lee Evans even appears to be underachieving this year. D. Nelson is our lone bright spot.

...the list goes on.

done.

[HHURRICANE]

After seeing what Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford and Sam Bradford are doing/did with ****ty lines....I completely disagree. I'm more convinced than ever before that we need to find our franchise quarterback and build the team around him starting in 2011. I want Ryan Mallett, but I would be fine with Andrew Luck or even Jake Locker.

I watched the Jets o-line dominate Sunday in person which gives a young player like Sanchez time to build confidence. His pump fake for a TD was excellent and developed because the lin gave him the 5 seconds required to pull that play off.

It's sickening that these stupid mother ****ers have taken 5 years and still don't have a frickin o-line to show for it.

[Bill Cody]

are you guys watching the same games I'm seeing - we're gonna lead the league in sacks given up - no QB can survive that kind of onslaught... and did I just hear someone call the pats and colts OL's average? you're kidding right? both of those lines have at least two probowlers on them so try again.

Is anyone arguing we don't need OL help? The draft does have more than one round. We could draft a QB in the first, which we almost certainly will, and still draft OL. By the way, how many 1st round picks do the Colts and Pats have on their OL's?

[Johnny Bugmenot]

For the record Jeff Saturday was an undrafted FA. Kent Hull and Jim Ringo were 7th rounders. OL is very important but it's easier to find OL later in the draft than franchise QB's.

Bills fans are either off the ledge or their toes hanging off. If the Bills go 2-14 and draft OL instead of a franchise signal caller my guess is someone finally goes postal on Ralph Wilson. But I'd rate the odds of that happening at .0001%.
Point taken, and centers are not exactly first-round material. Usually the highest are in the late first and early second (e.g. Mangold, Wood). (Perhaps that's why the parity problems have cropped up!) My point remains, though, that the poster has a point in that offensive line is a priority, and those who want to claim they can have a QB without at least a serviceable OL to go with it, I generally disagree.

[Nighthawk]

we have to solidify this line otherwise, we're gonna continue to ruin careers behind center. start by getting a franchise left T. Let's go ape$#!t for OL and see what Brohm, Fitz, or even with some polishing even Brown can do with more than .5 of a second (if that) while dropping back.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

[Akhippo]

So we cant draft a franchise QB until we get all five line positions solidified. If we give up even one sack there is no way we should put a fragile first round QB back there.

A QB MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. Look at Brady making Woodhead a household name. Peyton with his recievers.

How often have you said, "Man that O line is making that QB look good".
With an average QB you need a very good line, very good recievers, and a good running game. Thats 10 very good to make one average. Vice versa with a QB. A very good QB can elevate 6 or 7 average players.

[HHURRICANE]

So we cant draft a franchise QB until we get all five line positions solidified. If we give up even one sack there is no way we should put a fragile first round QB back there.

A QB MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. Look at Brady making Woodhead a household name. Peyton with his recievers.

How often have you said, "Man that O line is making that QB look good".
With an average QB you need a very good line, very good recievers, and a good running game. Thats 10 very good to make one average. Vice versa with a QB. A very good QB can elevate 6 or 7 average players.

Ask Jim Kelly how important his line was to his career in Buffalo.

[Nighthawk]

Ask Jim Kelly how important his line was to his career in Buffalo.

I remember a lot of average players playing on the Bills OL back in the day...I'd argue that Kelly made them look much better then they really were.

[Buffalo Thriller]

Dumbest post ever read. How could you not get Qb with a top 5 pick....

[TedMock]

Dumbest post ever read. How could you not get Qb with a top 5 pick....

I hear ya, but what if Luck is gone? If college ended today, I would not have Mallett or Locker in my top 5. I may certainly change my mind as there is a ton of football left and they may fix what's been bugging me, but I'd be trying like heck to trade down if, for example, Luck went number one to Oakland and we're sitting at 2-4. It's so hard to say right now. Of course trading down requires a willing partner too. Tough to imagine us not picking first right now though.

[billz83]

Summa u are plain ******ed...y is it either/or?!?! WE NEED BOTH..we DEFINITELY without a shadow of a DOUBT need a QB..but without a GOOD OLINE that QB will have the SAME FATE as the rest of the BUM *** QBz that have been in buffalo...We need to UPGRADE BOTH..and BOTH can be upgraded in 1 year!! itz called the draft AND FREE AGENCY OHMYGOD what a concept!! u mean u can use BOTH to upgrade the team!!!

[ublinkwescore]

I remember a lot of average players playing on the Bills OL back in the day...I'd argue that Kelly made them look much better then they really were.

You'd be wrong - especially with a pocket passer like Kelly.

[Mad Max]

A good enough QB can carry a team, no OT can, not Jonathan Ogden,not Tony Boselli,not O. Pace, the position is not by itself a game changing position whereas QB is.

No QB is going to carry a team if he's getting beat up all day - it's just not happening - see the Pats Giants SB - brady got sacked 5 times in that game - result - giants win. BTW, Eli Manning had superior pass protection


While true that QB's when they have absolutely no time to work will not be effective. But it's also true that when a good one has just a little time (afforded him by a mediocre line)...can certainly carry a team. No offensive Lineman can carry a team, ever...it's the nature of the position.





B.) Franchise QB's sell tickets Lineman don't (something Ralph is going to start worrying about really soon).

The bills need to stop worrying about selling tickets, and start worrying about winning first - because winning is ultimately the best way to put @$$es in seats.

Owners ALWAYS worry about selling tickets as football is entertainment to us, it's a business to them. Nobody buys tickets to see the stud OT play...they do in droves, to see the stud QB play. Winning begins with the QB, it's the most important position on the field.





C.) It takes time to develop a QB, so the longer we wait to draft him the longer we suck.

We've seen even Fitz make a case for my point - when he's had time, people (not seriously I'm sure) have compared him to Joe Montana - if we fix this line, what if we've already got our franchise QB? you can't say that you know for a fact that we don't because this line is not giving anyone time behind center to show what they can do.


We have a difference of opinion on our Line as I don't think it's without merit. As far as your idea that it's possible we may have a Franchise QB on our roster....anything's possible, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to bet any of your money on this.





E.) We have young WR's, let's let them grow with our Franchise QB...how about some Aikman to Irvin type mojo for 10 years? Montana to Rice?

We have mostly crap gimmick type WRs and Lee Evans even appears to be underachieving this year. D. Nelson is our lone bright spot.

Most people couldn't name any of the receivers on any of the Patriot Super Bowl winning teams (or Ravens, or...). Tom Brady could have won those with the guys we already have. Could we use true #1....of course, is one a must for success, nope.


Bottom line, most of us want to see improvement in the OL. But when some of us see the light at the end of the OL tunnel, and ALL of us see the dark abyss at our QB position it just doesn't make sense to waste the golden opportunity we're going to earn at season's end to shine a bright light into that hole.

[Michael82]

Ask Jim Kelly how important his line was to his career in Buffalo.
You mean these guys....

LT Will Wolford - 1st round
LG Glenn Parker - 3rd round
C Kent Hull - Picked up from the USFL (drafted by the NJ Generals in 7th round)
RG Jim Ritcher - 1st round
RT Howard Ballard - 11th round

[RockStar36]

I'm not even reading through this thread. Priority should be QB first, line second.

A good line means nothing with a rag arm playing QB. A line can be built up with 2nd round and even lower picks. The odds of drafting a QB low and him panning out are a lot worse.

The QB class this coming year has the chance to be loaded. Don't piss that opportunity away. Get a franchise QB.

[Michael82]

I'm not even reading through this thread. Priority should be QB first, line second.

A good line means nothing with a rag arm playing QB. A line can be built up with 2nd round and even lower picks. The odds of drafting a QB low and him panning out are a lot worse.

The QB class this coming year has the chance to be loaded. Don't piss that opportunity away. Get a franchise QB.
Well said! :bf1:

[Mr. Pink]

It may not make much of a difference in year 1 but if the O-line doesn't get that guy killed or shake his confidence, he and the club will have something to build on in years 2 and 3.

You don't draft in the top 5 if you have a good O-line regardless of who the QB is.

[Extremebillsfan247]

we have to solidify this line otherwise, we're gonna continue to ruin careers behind center. start by getting a franchise left T. Let's go ape$#!t for OL and see what Brohm, Fitz, or even with some polishing even Brown can do with more than .5 of a second (if that) while dropping back. The Bills are going after Mark Ingram. lol

[Mr. Pink]

The Bills are going after Mark Ingram. lol


STOP STEALING MY SARCASTIC THUNDER!

:rofl:

[Extremebillsfan247]

STOP STEALING MY SARCASTIC THUNDER!

:rofl: On a good team Spiller and Ingram in the same backfield would be hot though. lol JMO.

[Nighthawk]

You'd be wrong - especially with a pocket passer like Kelly.

No, not really, but try again.

[Nighthawk]

I'm not even reading through this thread. Priority should be QB first, line second.

A good line means nothing with a rag arm playing QB. A line can be built up with 2nd round and even lower picks. The odds of drafting a QB low and him panning out are a lot worse.

The QB class this coming year has the chance to be loaded. Don't piss that opportunity away. Get a franchise QB.


But, but, but...he'll get killed! [sarcasm]