Forked Thread: New England trades Moss back to Minny for a 3rd?!?!

[Ebenezer]

Forked from: New England trading Moss back to Minny?? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3332116)


Adam_Schefter

Filed to ESPN: When the Randy Moss-to-Minnesota trade is completed later, Patriots will receive a third-round pick in return from Vikings.

OK, Belichick is a complete fool. The man will never win anything in this league. A 3rd?? For Moss?? Is he insane? He should have traded him during training camp or maybe waited longer and gotten a 2nd!!

:sarcasm:

Um...where's all the screaming today folks?? The Bills got a 4th and a conditional for a guy who has had two run-ins with the law and will NEVER get a sniff of the HOF. NE just traded a player, who might end up being, the 2nd best WR EVER (stats wise) for a 3rd round pick. I don't see anybody bashing Belichick like they did the Bills FO yesterday. Anybody still want to argue that the Bills didn't get value??

[ddaryl]

Then I guess I want to know how the **** we got 2 3rds and a 7th for McGahee

[Extremebillsfan247]

Lets see Belechick now has 2 1st rounders, 2 second rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and 2 4th rounders all in next years draft. What was this guy thinking? lol

[DraftBoy]

Then I guess I want to know how the **** we got 2 3rds and a 7th for McGahee

Pretty simple.

Market value.

McGahee was young, and had showed talent. Baltimore badly needed a RB, so his value went up.

[MikeInRoch]

So they got him for a 4th I think, used him for a few years, and got a 3rd for him.

It seems like New England is playing chess, the rest of the league is playing checkers, and the Bills are playing "Let's bang these two rocks together".

[Ebenezer]

Then I guess I want to know how the **** we got 2 3rds and a 7th for McGahee

McGahee had way more potential, fwiw.

[ddaryl]

Pretty simple.

Market value.

McGahee was young, and had showed talent. Baltimore badly needed a RB, so his value went up.

????????

Lynch is young, has shown some talent, and a few teams badly need a RB

Your reply doesn't answer my question accept for perceived market value.

[Ebenezer]

????????

Lynch is young, has shown some talent, and a few teams badly need a RB

Your reply doesn't answer my question accept for perceived market value.

He's also one step from a year long suspension. The guy has the potential of being out of the league - for good - tomorrow.

[ddaryl]

McGahee had way more potential, fwiw.

Sorry that is one I don't follow at all... He was malcontent behind a crappy OL and O who phones it in for the Bills

Lynch is very similiar, different running sytles, but at the point of the trade there really was 0 differentiating Lynch from McGahee

[Philagape]

Forked from: New England trading Moss back to Minny?? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3332116)



OK, Belichick is a complete fool. The man will never win anything in this league. A 3rd?? For Moss?? Is he insane? He should have traded him during training camp or maybe waited longer and gotten a 2nd!!

:sarcasm:

Um...where's all the screaming today folks?? The Bills got a 4th and a conditional for a guy who has had two run-ins with the law and will NEVER get a sniff of the HOF. NE just traded a player, who might end up being, the 2nd best WR EVER (stats wise) for a 3rd round pick. I don't see anybody bashing Belichick like they did the Bills FO yesterday. Anybody still want to argue that the Bills didn't get value??

Um, maybe because he's 33 and in the final year of his contract? Yeah, that's entirely comparable to a 24-year-old. :duh:

[ddaryl]

He's also one step from a year long suspension. The guy has the potential of being out of the league - for good - tomorrow.

I wouldn't say out of the league for good.. That's extremly far fetched...

McGahee wasn't exactly a stand up guy off field etiher.. But I still don;'t see the big value diffences between these 2 players..

Well at least from what I remember from McGahee running the ball for the Bills. In fact he had less yard per cary in his Bills career then Lynch and arguably a better OL to run behind

[psubills62]

????????

Lynch is young, has shown some talent, and a few teams badly need a RB

Your reply doesn't answer my question accept for perceived market value.

You should look at the various trades around the league this year compared to several years ago. How many high-level picks (1st through 3rd) are being traded for players? Very, very few. In times of uncertainty with the CBA and an extremely limited pool of free agents, teams seem to be less willing to part with high draft picks.

[RoscoeMagic]

Pick up Brandon Tate in fantasy everyone!

[Ebenezer]

Sorry that is one I don't follow at all... He was malcontent behind a crappy OL and O who phones it in for the Bills

Lynch is very similiar, different running sytles, but at the point of the trade there really was 0 differentiating Lynch from McGahee

Not true. McGahee wasn't a malcontent. He irritated Bills fans. Nobody in the football department had a complaint about him. Also, McGahee wasn't one step from never playing again.

[Philagape]

Brandon Marshall has a longer rap sheet than Lynch, and he got two 2nds.

[psubills62]

Um, maybe because he's 33 and in the final year of his contract? Yeah, that's entirely comparable to a 24-year-old. :duh:

It's actually not that wild of a comparison. Elite wide receiver vs. decent running back. I wouldn't be surprised if the length of time that they're effective in the NFL is comparable, considering the ages that heavily-used RB's burn out at vs. wide receivers.

[Ebenezer]

You should look at the various trades around the league this year compared to several years ago. How many high-level picks (1st through 3rd) are being traded for players? Very, very few. In times of uncertainty with the CBA and an extremely limited pool of free agents, teams seem to be less willing to part with high draft picks.

It also matters when they are traded. Forcing trades in the season from a bad team lowers the value of a player. McGahee was on a better team and was traded in the off-season, if I remember, correct?

[justasportsfan]

the bills spent a 1st rd on lynch and got a 4th for him

BB spent a 4th and got a 3rd in return not to mention Moss' production .

How can anyone bash BB?

I'm not bashing NIx for the trade btw.

[Ebenezer]

Brandon Marshall has a longer rap sheet than Lynch, and he got two 2nds.

huge upside and traded in the off-season.

[Ebenezer]

It's actually not that wild of a comparison. Elite wide receiver vs. decent running back. I wouldn't be surprised if the length of time that they're effective in the NFL is comparable, considering the ages that heavily-used RB's burn out at vs. wide receivers.

Moss is in incredible shape. He could still be playing in five years.

[ddaryl]

Not true. McGahee wasn't a malcontent. He irritated Bills fans. Nobody in the football department had a complaint about him. Also, McGahee wasn't one step from never playing again.

Lynch is not 1 step from ever playing again

He is one step away from a 8 - 16 game suspension but unless he is convicted felon he will not be out of football forever

and even if he is a convicted felon we all know how this works.

Nope looking back on that trade the Bills got a steal...

[Ebenezer]

Lynch is not 1 step from ever playing again

He is one step away from a 8 - 16 game suspension but unless he is convicted felon he will not be out of football forever

and even if he is a convicted felon we all know how this works.

Nope looking back on that trade the Bills got a steal...

Do you think any team is going to want him back afte a year out of football? Fans here didn't want him back on the team after the first incident.

[psubills62]

Brandon Marshall has a longer rap sheet than Lynch, and he got two 2nds.

Marshall also somehow got negligible suspensions after each violation. IIRC, Marshall's never been suspended for more than 2 games. Maybe 3 once. Either way, I don't think he's as close to a year-long suspension as Lynch is.

[Philagape]

It's actually not that wild of a comparison. Elite wide receiver vs. decent running back. I wouldn't be surprised if the length of time that they're effective in the NFL is comparable, considering the ages that heavily-used RB's burn out at vs. wide receivers.

How much longer will Moss be elite? A player's trade value is based on what he'll do from the present onward. Plus, he wants a new megadeal. This could still be just a rental.

[ddaryl]

Do you think any team is going to want him back afte a year out of football? Fans here didn't want him back on the team after the first incident.

No but he would be released and he would find a team somewhere after the suspension..

The guy can play RB there is no doubt about that.....

[Ebenezer]

How much longer will Moss be elite? A player's trade value is based on what he'll do from the present onward. Plus, he wants a new megadeal. This could still be just a rental.

Moss, with the right QB and system, could be elite for 3-5 more years.

[Philagape]

Marshall also somehow got negligible suspensions after each violation. IIRC, Marshall's never been suspended for more than 2 games. Maybe 3 once. Either way, I don't think he's as close to a year-long suspension as Lynch is.

He got a three-game suspension reduced to one. Lynch got the same suspension except it wasn't reduced. And they were for the same kind of violations: off-field legal troubles.

[Ebenezer]

No but he would be released and he would find a team somewhere after the suspension..

The guy can play RB there is no doubt about that.....

Again, who would want to sign him?? How many takers were there on Vick?? There are teams that would still NEVER sign Vick if he were cut tomorrow.

[ddaryl]

Not true. McGahee wasn't a malcontent. He irritated Bills fans. Nobody in the football department had a complaint about him. Also, McGahee wasn't one step from never playing again.

he irritated the Bills very much. I don't buy that the Bills didn't have a complaint about him. he rarely showed up to voluntaries, and bashed the city, that is headache for the Bills FO/football department to have to deal with

[Ebenezer]

he irritated the Bills very much. I don't buy that the Bills didn't have a complaint about him. he rarely showed up to voluntaries, and bashed the city, that is headache for the Bills FO/football department to have to deal with

Fine, you win. Bills should have gotten a 1st for ML. They are a bunch of idiots at 1 Bills Drive. What was I thinking?

[DraftBoy]

????????

Lynch is young, has shown some talent, and a few teams badly need a RB

Your reply doesn't answer my question accept for perceived market value.

Who lacks a starter right now in the NFL like Baltimore did?

McGahee while he has an attitude issue was not one step away from a year long suspension, and two away from an indefinite suspension.

Plus McGahee imo, had way more talent than Lynch. Granted his injuries since his time here and in Baltimore have take a toll on his talent.

[Philagape]

Moss, with the right QB and system, could be elite for 3-5 more years.

If it's the QB and system that makes him elite, then that reduces his value.

[Ebenezer]

If it's the QB and system that makes him elite, then that reduces his value.

I don't disagree. Had he been younger they would have gotten more for him.

[psubills62]

How much longer will Moss be elite? A player's trade value is based on what he'll do from the present onward. Plus, he wants a new megadeal. This could still be just a rental.

It very well could be. Moss may not be elite from now on, but he'll still be better than most WR's in the league. Can't say the same for Lynch. I'm pretty sure we've seen Lynch's ceiling. Lynch's current contract only lets him stay 1 more year than Moss's.

[Philagape]

I don't disagree. Had he been younger they would have gotten more for him.

Which is my point.

[Bill Cody]

Brandon Marshall has a longer rap sheet than Lynch, and he got two 2nds.

Lynch called himself BeastMode. Marshall is BeastMode.

[psubills62]

http://twitter.com/JuddZulgad/status/26566555679

The Pats sent a 2012 7th-rounder to the Vikings in addition to Moss. Doesn't really affect the value terribly much, but it's still something for all the people keeping track.

[Lexwhat]

I don't see anybody bashing Belichick like they did the Bills FO yesterday.

For the record, I bashed the Patriots for this move.

-- Moss is not replaceable. The Pats just lost a huge dimension to their Offense.
-- This is not the kind of move a Super Bowl contender makes!!
-- The current Patriots need to win by out-scoring people. Their Defense is not elite.

Obviously Brady is still Brady. He is capable of doing anything. But opposing defenses will have one less thing to worry about.


My prediction is that the Patriots will not go deep into the playoffs this year without Moss.

[Ebenezer]

For the record, I bashed the Patriots for this move.

-- Moss is not replaceable. The Pats just lost a huge dimension to their Offense.
-- This is not the kind of move a Super Bowl contender makes!!
-- The current Patriots need to win by out-scoring people. Their Defense is not elite.

Obviously Brady is still Brady. He is capable of doing anything. But opposing defenses will have one less thing to worry about.


My prediction is that the Patriots will not go deep into the playoffs this year without Moss.

Lex, not disagreeing on that point. That's not the issue. The issue is the amount of compensation.

[dplus47]

Lex, not disagreeing on that point. That's not the issue. The issue is the amount of compensation.

I think this marks the first time the Pats didn't really kill someone in a trade. A 3rd sounds about right, because the player was gonna walk anyway, and he's in his 30's. I think the Pats might regret it in the short term, but I have said such things before.

[X-Era]

Lets see Belechick now has 2 1st rounders, 2 second rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and 2 4th rounders all in next years draft. What was this guy thinking? lolHe was thinking he needs them considering how many he wastes. Who are the studs he has drafted in the past 5 years with all those picks? Go through the list.

[X-Era]

So they got him for a 4th I think, used him for a few years, and got a 3rd for him.

It seems like New England is playing chess, the rest of the league is playing checkers, and the Bills are playing "Let's bang these two rocks together".Yep, they are awesome, cant you see how much better they are getting from say 3 or 4 years ago?

[Ebenezer]

He was thinking he needs them considering how many he wastes. Who are the studs he has drafted in the past 5 years with all those picks? Go through the list.
Somebody was doing a comparison...the Pats have about the same percentage of hits as the Bills.

[X-Era]

Somebody was doing a comparison...the Pats have about the same percentage of hits as the Bills.Absolutely! I cant think of a single stud that they have drafted in the past 5 years. There are many guys Id like to have, but the notion that they are restocking their team with studs is ridiculous. They are slowly watering themselves down and the past 3 years proves it. 07 they lose the SB, 08 they dont even go to the playoffs, and 09 they get bounced first round. That team is slowly getting worse with all those draft picks not better. They arent even the best team in the AFC East much less the AFC, and much much less the NFL.

Prove its made them better and I might be impressed.

[Ebenezer]

Absolutely! I cant think of a single stud that they have drafted in the past 5 years. There are many guys Id like to have, but the notion that they are restocking their team with studs is ridiculous. They are slowly watering themselves down and the past 3 years proves it. 07 they lose the SB, 08 they dont even go to the playoffs, and 09 they get bounced first round. That team is slowly getting worse with all those draft picks not better. They arent even the best team in the AFC East much less the AFC, and much much less the NFL.

Prove its made them better and I might be impressed.
Take a look at the moves that made them a winner. A fluke injury, a terrible officiating call, a well timed snowstorm, a swept under the rug cheating scandel....and a bucket load of swift, smooth and well times player personnel moves of experienced vets that most teams didn't want. It worked and worked great...until...they started to age. They peaked with the loss to the NYG after going undefeated.

[X-Era]

Take a look at the moves that made them a winner. A fluke injury, a terrible officiating call, a well timed snowstorm, a swept under the rug cheating scandel....and a bucket load of swift, smooth and well times player personnel moves of experienced vets that most teams didn't want. It worked and worked great...until...they started to age. They peaked with the loss to the NYG after going undefeated.Yeah, and I wouldn't bother responding to it, until I realize that this is a Bills board and somehow we have supposed Bills fans that act like Pats homers. Shut off ESPN and simply look at the standings for the past few years, its a stark contrast from what your being spoon fed.

[Lexwhat]

I think this marks the first time the Pats didn't really kill someone in a trade. A 3rd sounds about right, because the player was gonna walk anyway, and he's in his 30's. I think the Pats might regret it in the short term, but I have said such things before.

The Patriots have actually gotten "killed."

They traded a 3rd rounder, and one other lower round pick (can't remember) to the Raiders for Derrick Burgess (I have no idea who Oakland took with those picks).

[X-Era]

The Patriots have actually gotten "killed."

They traded a 3rd rounder, and one other lower round pick (can't remember) to the Raiders for Derrick Burgess (I have no idea who Oakland took with those picks).Exactly. All they do is double the number of darts they have when they throw... but their number of bulls-eyes is the same even with more darts.

[Ickybaluky]

Somebody was doing a comparison...the Pats have about the same percentage of hits as the Bills.

The Pats 2006 - 2008 drafts weren't up to their previous standards.

However, their last 2, which is when they have been stockpiling picks, have been homeruns. The Pats have a lot of talent on their team from the last 2 drafts. Combined with the next draft, it has a chance to renew them as a championship contender.

I think it is remarkable what Belichick has been doing to rebuild the team. He won the division last year in the middle of a major rebuild. Moves like trading Seymour and Moss are difficult to deal with because those guys could still perform at a high level when they were released. However, by getting rid of them a year early he gets compensation back that builds the team for the long term. That Oakland pick has a chance to be top 10, and the Carolina pick will be one of the highest in the 2nd round. Those are great moves.

Guys get old and leave, guys that were cornerstones of their Super Bowl teams. Troy Brown, McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Phifer, Faulk, etc. either got old or neared the end. Belichick has completely turned over the roster in the last couple years, and they have a ton of players who are going to be the cornerstones of the team for the next few years.

Over 50% of the Pats snaps this year have been taken by players under 25. Those are the guys in the last couple drafts taking over. They have some really talented guys who are going to be very good players.

[better days]

The Pats 2006 - 2008 drafts weren't up to their previous standards.

However, their last 2, which is when they have been stockpiling picks, have been homeruns. The Pats have a lot of talent on their team from the last 2 drafts. Combined with the next draft, it has a chance to renew them as a championship contender.

I think it is remarkable what Belichick has been doing to rebuild the team. He won the division last year in the middle of a major rebuild. Moves like trading Seymour and Moss are difficult to deal with because those guys could still perform at a high level when they were released. However, by getting rid of them a year early he gets compensation back that builds the team for the long term. That Oakland pick has a chance to be top 10, and the Carolina pick will be one of the highest in the 2nd round. Those are great moves.

Guys get old and leave, guys that were cornerstones of their Super Bowl teams. Troy Brown, McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Phifer, Faulk, etc. either got old or neared the end. Belichick has completely turned over the roster in the last couple years, and they have a ton of players who are going to be the cornerstones of the team for the next few years.

Over 50% of the Pats snaps this year have been taken by players under 25. Those are the guys in the last couple drafts taking over. They have some really talented guys who are going to be very good players.

They do, but as has been said, with the number of draft picks they have had & their past history, that should be a given.

The Jets will win the East this year, & the Pats* are no longer the best team in the division.