Bills practing 4 man front w/Poz @ OLB [Archive] - BillsZone.com

madness

10-21-2010, 08:41 AM

During their bye week, the Bills were using rookie nose tackle Torell Troup (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1621669/torelltroup) in a four-man line next to fellow nose tackle Kyle Williams (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/423832/kylewilliams). Marcus Stroud (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/235246/marcusstroud) and Dwan Edwards were at the ends, and outside linebacker Reggie Torbor (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493092/reggietorbor) was benched, meaning Chris Kelsay (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/396007/chriskelsay) and Posluszny were playing outside linebacker and Andra Davis was at middle linebacker. Posluszny has been a 4-3 middle linebacker, both in college and the NFL, but he does have the agility to play outside. Kelsay is still struggling to convert from defensive end to linebacker and seems hopelessly overmatched in pass coverage.
"There's a lot of carryover between the two," Posluszny said. "That's something we can definitely handle."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/14152925

It's a nightmare match up against their passing game but it just might actually help us stop the run. Troup has been getting on the field and had a decent game last time. Hopefully he continues to improve because the defense is so much better suited to have Kyle Williams shooting gaps out of the 4-3.

Philagape

10-21-2010, 08:55 AM

Kelsay is overmatched in pass coverage? Try every single linebacker.

Get Todd Heap in your fantasy lineups ... he'll score like three touchdowns.

bigbub2352

10-21-2010, 08:56 AM

kelsay is a joke out there

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 09:12 AM

It's a nightmare match up against their passing game but it just might actually help us stop the run. Troup has been getting on the field and had a decent game last time. Hopefully he continues to improve because the defense is so much better suited to have Kyle Williams shooting gaps out of the 4-3.
This defense is a joke. They said we were moving to a 3-4 and now that KW has failed as the NT (surprise surprise) they are scrapping the whole thing?

Just give Troupe the NT job and keep Edwards and Stroud as the DEs.

Beebe's Kid

10-21-2010, 09:14 AM

Kelsay should be a DE, but I don't think there is any room for him. I like the idea of Coleman or Carrington at end...or even Moats. I thing Moats was impressing the staff, and I see he was limited in practice, so hopefully he is the first option upon his return.

It's said 1000 times per day, but get some of these young guys on the field. Maybin should not be on the bench. either. He struggles against the run? Who doesn't on this defense? If he is going to get millions of dollars, he needs to be playing.

Mad Max

10-21-2010, 09:17 AM

I think we'll see it. We have nothing to lose.

Not that I think it will work as with Edwards and Stroud as the Ends very little pass rush is going to be generated, combine that with Kelsay and POZ at OLB...... it's just going to allow Flacco/Heap/ and RB screens to shred us

As a matter of fact I'm calling it right now, that he throws his season high in yardage this Sunday if we go with the 4-3.

Pinkerton Security

10-21-2010, 09:20 AM

Kelsay is overmatched in pass coverage? Try every single linebacker.

Get Todd Heap in your fantasy lineups ... he'll score like three touchdowns.

seems like every week that someone asks me who to pickup at TE in fantasy, I just look to see who is playing the Bills that week

10-21-2010, 09:26 AM

Well it doesn't look like we'll have any pass rush, but we didn't have any pass rush before so whatever. Those 4 guys up front gives us a pretty big and stout D-line though, and it will be nice to see Troup get some more snaps. That's all I really care about at this point is getting our young guys reps. I'd rather see Poz stay in the middle though and put Maybin and one of our other young LB's on the outside.

streetkings01

10-21-2010, 10:02 AM

Looks like we should be blitzing alot if we want some form of pass rush.

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 10:23 AM

Looks like we should be blitzing alot if we want some form of pass rush.
They won't do that for sure. They will send 4 every time and hope the secondary makes a play on 3rd down. They won't risk giving up big plays.

psubills62

10-21-2010, 10:23 AM

Kelsay at OLB in a 4-3 is a horrible idea. I think I'd rather have Ellison there.

Someone wrote before (can't remember if it was CB or someone else) that we utilized that exact same heavy 4-man front to stop the run against Jacksonville. Then Jacksonville just started bouncing everything outside because our big DE's didn't have the agility to keep contain. Do they really think Kelsay has the ability and speed to make an open-field tackle against Ray Rice or whoever ends up getting around the DL?

DraftBoy

10-21-2010, 10:33 AM

This defense is a joke. They said we were moving to a 3-4 and now that KW has failed as the NT (surprise surprise) they are scrapping the whole thing?

Just give Troupe the NT job and keep Edwards and Stroud as the DEs.

Troupe hasn't shown that he is any better a NT option than KW. You dont just give players jobs, they have to earn them.

Im fine with the switch, we are playing predominantly 4-3 Cover 2 anyways.

DesertFox24

10-21-2010, 10:37 AM

They need to start Carrington at LE and let stroud come off the bench.

madness

10-21-2010, 10:39 AM

Troupe and Carrington both have been slowly getting more reps on game day which hopefully means they've been getting better and have been stealing more reps in practice.

Night Train

10-21-2010, 10:42 AM

So basically, we're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I don't blame the Bills for trying with what they have to work with but they need to get serious with changing the Front 7 personnel during the coming off-season.

Dr. Lecter

10-21-2010, 10:44 AM

justasportsfan

10-21-2010, 10:48 AM

Night Train

10-21-2010, 10:51 AM

Williams has been better at NT than Stroud or Edwards at DE.

Which means they're all playing REALLY bad (and they are)

Pinkerton Security

10-21-2010, 10:53 AM

This is what i don't get. NE almost never tells people what they are practicing. You won't know whats gonna happen until gameday. Same goes with the Colts. BOth teams don't even talk about their injured players.

We might as well tell the ravens what plays we're going to run offensively too while we're at it.

I dont think it matters...the Ravens and Ray Rice are licking their chops at the thought of running against us...I'm hoping we can do SOMETHING to slow down Rice because obviously I'm sick of watching teams run all over us but I am also playing against Rice in fantasy...ugh.

mikemac2001

10-21-2010, 11:00 AM

Why don't they do what i do in madden

Byrd

Mckelvin Scott Poz (any other lb) Whitner CB
Edwards-Stroud-Williams-Kelsey

Now thats a good run d

RoscoeMagic

10-21-2010, 11:03 AM

LOL Kelsay @ 4-3 OLB

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 11:04 AM

Troupe hasn't shown that he is any better a NT option than KW. You dont just give players jobs, they have to earn them.

Im fine with the switch, we are playing predominantly 4-3 Cover 2 anyways.
4-3 cover 2 with slow LBs and big, heavy DEs? not likely...

Pinkerton Security

10-21-2010, 11:04 AM

Why don't they do what i do in madden

Byrd

Mckelvin Scott Poz (any other lb) Whitner CB
Edwards-Stroud-Williams-Kelsey

Now thats a good run d

true, but I actually wanna see Troup get some serious PT and see what he can do...Carrington as well.

madness

10-21-2010, 11:04 AM

The issue with the 3-4 has always been Kyle Williams. He's so much better shooting the gaps that they tried to tailor the rest of the 3-4 around him doing that. The only problem is that it allows the OL to penetrate into the second level and we don't have LB's that can get off blocks quickly and cleanly. If we are truly serious about converting to a 3-4, we need to find KW a new home this off-season.

mikemac2001

10-21-2010, 11:05 AM

true, but I actually wanna see Troup get some serious PT and see what he can do...Carrington as well.

Well i give them reps i was just saying starting lineup

but in thoery our D would be better now but our future would be worse

Pinkerton Security

10-21-2010, 11:07 AM

Well i give them reps i was just saying starting lineup

but in thoery our D would be better now but our future would be worse

yeah, i mean we generally have a pretty decent rotation anyways so doesnt really matter who starts...i just would rather see more of Troup and Carrington is all.

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 11:07 AM

Williams has been better at NT than Stroud or Edwards at DE.
Edwards has been our best DL. KW is the biggest reason for our inability to stop the run. He is pushed back on every play or he tries to knife through and the play goes the other way. I rarely see him hold up against the double and that is trickling down to the rest of the DL and LBs.

DraftBoy

10-21-2010, 11:09 AM

4-3 cover 2 with slow LBs and big, heavy DEs? not likely...

As compared to a 3-4 where we can't stop anybody?

6 of one, half dozen of the other. No matter what we do we are going to suck, I dont really care about them doing this switch. Its pointless and continues to show our coaching ineptitude.

justasportsfan

10-21-2010, 11:09 AM

I dont think it matters...the Ravens and Ray Rice are licking their chops at the thought of running against us...I'm hoping we can do SOMETHING to slow down Rice because obviously I'm sick of watching teams run all over us but I am also playing against Rice in fantasy...ugh.

tell that to the PAts and colts that keeping info in house doesn't matter. Have you heard any of BB press conference? All he does it talk up his opponents even when it's the bills. He doesn't give anything away.

Yeah I know we suck and they will most beat us anyways but thats not the point. You don't make it any easier for any team to beat the snot out of us.

Pinkerton Security

10-21-2010, 11:13 AM

tell that to the PAts and colts that keeping info in house doesn't matter. Have you heard any of BB press conference? All he does it talk up his opponents even when it's the bills. He doesn't give anything away.

Yeah I know we suck and they will most beat us anyways but thats not the point. You don't make it any easier for any team to beat the snot out of us.

no im saying it doesnt matter because even if we didnt tell them they'd kick the crap out of us anyways, im not saying it isnt dumb to tell the opponents what you're working on because it obviously is.

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 11:14 AM

As compared to a 3-4 where we can't stop anybody?

6 of one, half dozen of the other. No matter what we do we are going to suck, I dont really care about them doing this switch. Its pointless and continues to show our coaching ineptitude.
Well if we aren't stopping anyone anyways then get the guys experience in the 3-4 so it's not another transition next year. This 4-3 is just ridiculous. I have never seen 4 DTs used to form a four man line.

Baltimore is not stupid. They will just drop back on playaction and throw it, they have a big tall QB and 3 top notch WRs and a playmaking TE.

And that is IF this BIG BOY defense can stop the run which considering how fast Rice is, I doubt they do.

trapezeus

10-21-2010, 11:15 AM

i know this is getting ahead of ourselves, but the most damning part of the Bill's defensive woes will be when they don't get a single sack against the bears in 3 weeks.

It will be embarassing that they'll have made all these "adjustments" and still can't sack a qb who has gone down like 20 times in the last 2 weeks.

DraftBoy

10-21-2010, 11:20 AM

Well if we aren't stopping anyone anyways then get the guys experience in the 3-4 so it's not another transition next year. This 4-3 is just ridiculous. I have never seen 4 DTs used to form a four man line.

Baltimore is not stupid. They will just drop back on playaction and throw it, they have a big tall QB and 3 top notch WRs and a playmaking TE.

And that is IF this BIG BOY defense can stop the run which considering how fast Rice is, I doubt they do.

Watch the Giants from their Super Bowl run, they ran both 4 man DT lines and 4 man DE lines. Im not sure we are going back to a 3-4 to be perfectly honest right now. Its not like the players we drafted couldnt play in a 4-3 anyways.

Who said anything about stopping Baltimore? Don't be ridiculous.

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 11:20 AM

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 11:25 AM

Watch the Giants from their Super Bowl run, they ran both 4 man DT lines and 4 man DE lines. Im not sure we are going back to a 3-4 to be perfectly honest right now. Its not like the players we drafted couldnt play in a 4-3 anyways.

Who said anything about stopping Baltimore? Don't be ridiculous.
The Giants did not have 4 DTs lines. The most they would put on the field is Alford with Cofield and Robbins and Tuck on short yardage and that was probably very rare.

The Giants were known for putting out the 3 or 4 DE packages with Tuck, Osi, Kiwanuka and Strahan.

No one puts out 4 DTs in normal defensive situations, only for goal line defense or short yardage.

DraftBoy

10-21-2010, 11:32 AM

The Giants did not have 4 DTs lines. The most they would put on the field is Alford with Cofield and Robbins and Tuck on short yardage and that was probably very rare.

The Giants were known for putting out the 3 or 4 DE packages with Tuck, Osi, Kiwanuka and Strahan.

No one puts out 4 DTs in normal defensive situations, only for goal line defense or short yardage.

They did, go back and watch the tape. Why are you trying to argue this? What point does it serve?

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 11:38 AM

They did, go back and watch the tape. Why are you trying to argue this? What point does it serve?
My point is that playing 4 DTs is just dumb. You give the opponent an opportunity to devise a game plan that can easily beat that. Jacksonville isn't half as good offensively as Baltimore and they took advantage easily. They had 2 weeks to prepare and they come up with the same thing with only moving Poz outside? And worst of all moving Kelsay to 4-3 OLB, hasn't this guy suffered enough as a 3-4 OLB?

This is shocking on George Edwards part and I hope for his sake and the sake of the Bills psyche that this rumored defense is a package only for short yardage.

DraftBoy

10-21-2010, 11:41 AM

My point is that playing 4 DTs is just dumb. You give the opponent an opportunity to devise a game plan that can easily beat that. Jacksonville isn't half as good offensively as Baltimore and they took advantage easily. They had 2 weeks to prepare and they come up with the same thing with only moving Poz outside? And worst of all moving Kelsay to 4-3 OLB, hasn't this guy suffered enough as a 3-4 OLB?

This is shocking on George Edwards part and I hope for his sake and the sake of the Bills psyche that this rumored defense is a package only for short yardage.

The point here is to try something, anything to be innovative and show Baltimore something they haven't seen before. Will it work? Probably not, but every new defense 46, 3-3-5, 3-4, etc had to be tried somewhere. Many Giants fans thought Spags was nuts for his DL alignments he used in Giants came the year of their run.

I dont think this will work, but like I said before, I dont care and why not give it a shot?

Mahdi

10-21-2010, 11:48 AM

The point here is to try something, anything to be innovative and show Baltimore something they haven't seen before. Will it work? Probably not, but every new defense 46, 3-3-5, 3-4, etc had to be tried somewhere. Many Giants fans thought Spags was nuts for his DL alignments he used in Giants came the year of their run.

I dont think this will work, but like I said before, I dont care and why not give it a shot?
Using 4 CBs as your DL is also innovative. Just a dumb idea also. We'll see what happens...

DraftBoy

10-21-2010, 11:50 AM

Using 4 CBs as your DL is also innovative. Just a dumb idea also. We'll see what happens...

At this point it can't get any worse.

madness

10-21-2010, 11:54 AM

It wasn't like the Giants weren't smart about it either. They used it to their advantage depending on the situation. I'd have no problem using 4 DT's on third and short if it was going to shut down their run and make their PA more predictable. Unfortunately it seems the Bills can't shut anything down either way.

TacklingDummy

10-21-2010, 12:02 PM

3 pages and no one's asked, Where's Maybin?

Canadian'eh!

10-21-2010, 12:07 PM

Canadian'eh!

10-21-2010, 12:07 PM

3 pages and no one's asked, Where's Maybin?
I'm gonna guess he's at the bank cashing his check.

Beebe's Kid

10-21-2010, 12:17 PM

Yet another example of the Bills FO not being able to come up with a plan, implement if effectively, and stick with it over any rough patches.

Firing a OC a week before the regular season? Cutting your starting QB 3 weeks in? Changing your base D scheme 6 weeks in?

This team is officially a bigger laughing stock than the Raiders would be with Matt Millen as their GM.

What a ****ing joke.
You're right. That's why you quit them every week for the last two months. You have officially submitted your resignation on a couple of occasions.

The reason nobody has said it is because it's old played out bull****, and you are looking more pathetic each time you post it.

"I'm really going to leave, guys....[crickets] No, seruously guys...I'm gonna go...they are joke...I'm really leaving...you should leave too...dont go to games...guys? You're gonna go, right? Because I'm leaving now."

Nobody else thinks this is a relevant take, but thank god you are here to repeat yourself!!!!

Do you cut and paste your replies??

BertSquirtgum

10-21-2010, 12:33 PM

championship

EDS

10-21-2010, 01:01 PM

At this point it can't get any worse.

I agree. The Bills have the worst defense in the league so there really is nowhere to go but up. It is not like the Bills have any competent pass rushers to begin with so they might as well go big. In fact, given how bad the OLBs are they should replace Kelsay with Scott, assuming he is now healthy, and run a 5 DB defense.

mightysimi

10-21-2010, 01:33 PM

I think this is a positive. I think the staff sees that it is not working and are trying to do something else to fix it. As opposed to stubbornly sticking to something that is clearly not getting it done. I don't think the 3-4 is scrapped all together, just changing some things up and once we have better personnel, can be implemented more fully. Although I'm not sure that George Edwards is the guy to get it done.

justasportsfan

10-21-2010, 01:47 PM

Firing a OC a week before the regular season?

Nix fired Gailey? I could have sworn Gailey was still calling plays up until the Jags game. :huh:

Jan Reimers

10-21-2010, 02:14 PM

Some of you guys ***** that we don't make adjustments, and then ***** more when we do.

I'm beginning to think you just like to *****.

ZAZusmc03

10-21-2010, 02:38 PM

I read KW missed practice with ankle injury....

Billz_fan

10-21-2010, 03:01 PM

This isn't much different than last years no huddle fiasco (Jaurons Follys). They decide to do something new. They ignore the fact they don't have qualified personnel to do it properly yet ignore these needs in the draft. Then waste the summer, training camp, preseason, and several regular season games watching the melt down. Then in the middle of the season say "Well crap this is no good" No S### it's no good you didn't aquire any decent personnel to do the job. No immediate impact players in the draft, no veteran FA help to plug a hole. just the same goof's who played last years scrapped defense and a 2nd round nose tackle (who was picked to early) and our big #1 pick Maybin who sits on the bench collecting 1st round money. Then they give Kelsey more money ??

Yeah, Lets give Buddy and Chan time. They picked up right where Dick left off.

RoscoeMagic

10-21-2010, 03:36 PM

This regime is making me miss Ashlee Palmer and Chris Draft :ill:

ServoBillieves

10-21-2010, 05:09 PM

So... (I didn't read all the responses... so sorry if this was already posted) We have 4 DT's, 1 DE, 2 LB's, 2 CB's and 2 S as a base package?

YardRat

10-21-2010, 05:56 PM

They're feeling the pressure to produce...maybe from the players themselves.

Switching to a 43 right now certainly won't help the 34 scheme, or players that are supposed to be learning the scheme for the future, become any more viable for next season.

Then again, maybe they had an epiphany and now realize that most of these guys suck and aren't going to be successful regardless of what they run.

lol at the POS being shuffled to the outside and basically losing the MLB job to a second- or third-level FA. Must be Buddy and Chan didn't pay close enough attention to his metrics.

tampabay25690

10-21-2010, 06:28 PM

Right now we are more suited for the 4-3 so that is the way to go...

We just don't have enough talent at LB for a 3-4

Canadian'eh!

10-21-2010, 08:14 PM

You're right. That's why you quit them every week for the last two months. You have officially submitted your resignation on a couple of occasions.

The reason nobody has said it is because it's old played out bull****, and you are looking more pathetic each time you post it.

"I'm really going to leave, guys....[crickets] No, seruously guys...I'm gonna go...they are joke...I'm really leaving...you should leave too...dont go to games...guys? You're gonna go, right? Because I'm leaving now."

Nobody else thinks this is a relevant take, but thank god you are here to repeat yourself!!!!

Do you cut and paste your replies??
Show me where i said i was leaving. I said I'm not a "Fan". which i'm not, I'm more of a vocal critic.

I';m guessing you went to public school with those comprehension skills there skippy.

billz83

10-22-2010, 01:08 AM

honestly it dont matter if we got a 3-4 or a 4-3 the same crappy players are in and the ravens are plottin on 200+ rushing yards..wonder when these rookies we drafted will make their impact or will their name fade into the background like the rest..

Jan Reimers

10-22-2010, 08:23 AM

Show me where i said i was leaving. I said I'm not a "Fan". which i'm not, I'm more of a vocal critic.

I';m guessing you went to public school with those comprehension skills there skippy.
When criticizing someone's educational background or academic skills, you really should try using proper grammar, punctuation, and capitalization.

jamze132

10-22-2010, 08:58 AM

The Ravens are going to flip the script and completely destroy us through the air. Not that they have to bvut they know that Buffalo is so pathetic on defense that we are going to tailor it to either stopping the run OR stopping the pass. not that we can stop either one, but our defense will be setup accordingly.

The Ravens could run it right down our throats but I think Flaco and Co. want to pad the passing stats and will air it out, especially to Todd Heap who will have a career day.