Vick doubters... it is time

[BuffaloBlitz83]

You need to admit this guy has worked on his game. Simply amazing the things he has done this year. From Jailhouse to Penthouse. This guy was out of football for a few years and then rode the bench a year. And then BANGGGGG.

And the guys that said he's not a winner. He can't pass. All he can do is run. He can't improve at this point. Time to admit it, he has greatly improved and is hands down right now the MVP of league. Man, I wish we signed him :(

Save the dog killer bs. He did his time and now is ASSAULTING THE NFL

[OpIv37]

hindsight is 20/20.

Who would have thought vick would come back and be BETTER than he was before he left? It was a one in a million shot.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

hindsight is 20/20.

Who would have thought vick would come back and be BETTER than he was before he left? It was a one in a million shot.

I think it is an amazing story. I am happy for the guy. He made a huge mistake and didnt quit. Worked hard. Well, lots of posters were calling for Vick before the year even started. Look back. I actually think u were ok with dealing for him. Could be wrong

[Mike13]

Save the dog killer bs. He did his time and now is ASSAULTING THE NFL

What about the "He had someone shot at his birthday party" BS?

Good QB, Piece of **** as a person.

[YardRat]

Wow.

Philly fans have to be lovin' this.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

4 TDs in 1 quarter basically. 9 for 9, 229 yds lol

[BuffaloBlitz83]

I don't think i've ever seen a QB in zone like this to start game. This is Jordanesque

[Mike13]

He is kicking ass and he has improved alot as a QB. Before he was just a small RB with an arm.


He made a huge mistake

Shooting, drowning, and electrocuting Dogs is not a mistake.
Thats down right pyschotic.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

He is kicking ass and he has improved alot as a QB. Before he was just a small RB with an arm.



Shooting, drowning, and electrocuting Dogs is not a mistake.
Thats down right pyschotic.

He did is freaking time. Jeez

[G Wolly]

Sounds like you have an unhealthy obsession with this guy.

Were you his prison girlfriend?

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Sounds like you have an unhealthy obsession with this guy.

Were you his prison girlfriend?

Nope, just a fan of pure athleticism and skill. Two things, the Bills have lacked for years

[OpIv37]

I think it is an amazing story. I am happy for the guy. He made a huge mistake and didnt quit. Worked hard. Well, lots of posters were calling for Vick before the year even started. Look back. I actually think u were ok with dealing for him. Could be wrong

I didn't care about the dog thing because the guy did his time, but I was against it from a football standpoint. I just didn't think he was that good.

Wow, I was wrong twice in a week. Well, first time for everything, I guess...

[Mike13]

He did is freaking time. Jeez

Whatever.

[G Wolly]

Nope, just a fan of pure athleticism and skill. Two things, the Bills have lacked for years


:limp:

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Where's Jan? Mr. PETA. The man that said Vick will never be a good passer. I ate crowe after my prediction. He should man up regardless of his dog obsession

[Figster]

I didn't care about the dog thing because the guy did his time, but I was against it from a football standpoint. I just didn't think he was that good.

Wow, I was wrong twice in a week. Well, first time for everything, I guess...
There was a time all Mike Vick could hit was his big TE Alge Crumpler, couldn't read defenses and took off running at the first sign of danger,


who woulda thunked it


How about them Sabres!!! (4-3 victory in OT)

[G Wolly]

Here I made you a new avatar. No need to thank me.

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2215/22523018.png

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Half man, half amazing. Looks like a video game!

[tampabay25690]

Honestly the guy is sick...........
Having to prepare for Philly has to be a NIGHTMARE...
The guy is special again just like when he was in Atlanta but maybe better....

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Honestly the guy is sick...........
Having to prepare for Philly has to be a NIGHTMARE...
The guy is special again just like when he was in Atlanta but maybe better....

Honestly who did he have to throw to in Atlanta? Peerless Price, Dez White, Crumpler. He has weapons finally

[TrEd FTW]

The guy's a Grade-A sociopath, but I have to begrudgingly give him credit for his on-field performance. He has been amazing this year.

[Figster]

Honestly the guy is sick...........
Having to prepare for Philly has to be a NIGHTMARE...
The guy is special again just like when he was in Atlanta but maybe better....


Be fun to see Mike Vick face off against Cam Newton one day.


As far as Atlanta goes, Vick was never as good as he is now when he played for the Falocns, not even close.

[tampabay25690]

Be fun to see Mike Vick face off against Cam Newton one day.


As far as Atlanta goes, Vick was never as good as he is now when he played for the Falocns, not even close.

I said better then in Atlanta.
he is playing lights out right now...
The guy will GET PAID next year

[Mike13]

The guy's a Grade-A sociopath, but I have to begrudgingly give him credit for his on-field performance. He has been amazing this year.


Pretty much this.



Honestly the guy is sick...........
Having to prepare for Philly has to be a NIGHTMARE...
The guy is special again just like when he was in Atlanta but maybe better....

He has become a much more "heady" QB.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

I wonder if Dallas goes after him too

[Figster]

I said better then in Atlanta.
he is playing lights out right now...
The guy will GET PAID next year


I agree, Vick is going to get a whale of a contract to finish out his career.

[Figster]

I wonder if Dallas goes after him too

I don't see Philly letting Mike Vick go anywhere, be foolish if they do in my opinion.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Sign him Buffalo! Doubt he'd wanna bring his talents to buffalo lol

[Figster]

Sign him Buffalo! Doubt he'd wanna bring his talents to buffalo lol


A young Cameron Newton could be the next best thing, literally.

[Billz_fan]

He is playing great ! and he has done his time. Im happy for him. I still don't want him though. lol

[BuffaloBlitz83]

A young Cameron Newton could be the next best thing, literally.

i prefer Luck to Newton

[tampabay25690]

i prefer Luck to Newton

2 totally different QB'S

[BuffaloBlitz83]

2 totally different QB'S

Yup I just think Luck has less bust factor

[Joe Fo Sho]

I can't think of a logical 'football' reason as to why we didn't sign this guy. Even out of prison, he was better than anything we had at QB.

[mightysimi]

I will only eat **** once he wins a superbowl. I stick to my guns saying that running qb's don't work. They get hurt and they fumble. He may look sexy on the stat sheet but until he gets it done all the way to the end, he is just a sportscenter darling. Not saying he isn't playing lights out right now because he is but I would bet we see Kolb again before the end of the season.

[G Wolly]

I hate Michael Vick

[Coach Sal]

The difference is he's finally being coached well AND he's willing to be coached.

Andy Reid, Marty Mornhinweg, and James Urban.

Those are three quality coaches for a QB all on one staff. They've done a great job with him.

Not sure there are many places - if any - that would have that kind of coaching surrounding him in one place - and be able to actually do it, too

[ServoBillieves]

I have to get this completely straight from someone... I can't really find a straightforward answer to my question, but didn't he just FUND a dog-fighting ring? I am in no way shape or form backing him up, my three dogs are sleeping around my legs as I type this, but I think funding and actually pushing a dogs head under water are 2 different things.

His "friends" could've been begging him for money and he gave it to shut them up, or the dude could've been the one watching and sickening me. He "did his time," and he might have learned his lesson, but I need the straight answer on that one.

[Michael82]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to cheer for him or give him any love. He's playing good football right now and finally playing more like a QB instead of a RB. But it still doesn't change the fact that he's a piece of ****. Anyone that can do the kind of disgusting things that he did to those poor dogs, doesn't have a soul and isn't a human being.

[TrEd FTW]

I have to get this completely straight from someone... I can't really find a straightforward answer to my question, but didn't he just FUND a dog-fighting ring? I am in no way shape or form backing him up, my three dogs are sleeping around my legs as I type this, but I think funding and actually pushing a dogs head under water are 2 different things.

His "friends" could've been begging him for money and he gave it to shut them up, or the dude could've been the one watching and sickening me. He "did his time," and he might have learned his lesson, but I need the straight answer on that one.
Vick didn't just fund the operation. He participated in the acts as well. The man - and I have a hard time even calling him a man - is a vile piece of trash.

[BertSquirtgum]

philadelphia signed him before buffalo could bring him in. get the **** over it. i am so sick of reading vick threads after he has a great game. **** him.

[Lexwhat]

I remember back when he was in Atlanta (well BEFORE the dog fighting), I used to always say that Vick would one day be a great all-around QB. That he just needed time and coaching. Since the beginning, he was always a winner, although people (for some reason) loved to hate him. I remember it so vividly because a few were being racist about it -- which annoyed the hell outta me.

Well, by Vick's own admission, it turns out the main reason he was never great at reading defenses was because he simply didn't care enough. He admitted that he only did whatever was minimally necessary in the film room and nothing more. What's amazing is that he led the Falcons to the playoffs multiples times based on his athletic ability alone.

His transformation as a football player in Philly is truly amazing. I don't think anyone predicted that he would be THIS good. If Vick continues to play like this, there's not a Defense in the league that can stop him or the Eagles. I've never seen anything like this my entire life.

And oh yea -- Bills fans should forget about Vick as their QB. The Eagles are already working on a contract extension with him.

Expect Kolb to be traded this off-season.

[Lexwhat]

I wonder if Dallas goes after him too

See my post above. The Eagles are reportedly working on an extension with Vick now.

Vick will likely finish out his career as an Eagle.

[Lexwhat]

The difference is he's finally being coached well AND he's willing to be coached.

Andy Reid, Marty Mornhinweg, and James Urban.

Those are three quality coaches for a QB all on one staff. They've done a great job with him.

Not sure there are many places - if any - that would have that kind of coaching surrounding him in one place - and be able to actually do it, too

Great post -- but you did leave out one name. Donovan McNabb.

Vick has said, on multiple occasions, that he owes his career resurgence to McNabb. McNabb personally vouched for Vick when the Eagles front office was considering him, and mentored Vick for almost an entire season.

[ZEUS]

I still think the guys a dirtbag. I don't care how many games he wins.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Vick is having a good year, good for him. He and Buffalo were never meant to be though. He is a QB you want if your tooling up for a playoff run, but it wouldn't work on a team tooling up for the future. JMO. I'm still glad he isn't in Buffalo.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Vick=Sadist

Vick=Dog Killer

People don't change.........:tongue:

[Jan Reimers]

Where's Jan? Mr. PETA. The man that said Vick will never be a good passer. I ate crowe after my prediction. He should man up regardless of his dog obsession
I'm here. You're right about his QB play. He has been lights out, and I was wrong. Not the first time in my life, and certainly won't be the last.

But he is still garbage as a human being. I don't care that he has "done his time." That is a legal thing. Killing dogs is a moral thing, and the things he did are indicative of a a cruel and heartless thug.

[ddaryl]

still don't care about Vick. Don't want him in the NFL and don't beleive he deserved the opportunity regardless, and I don't even know how he has been doing cause I don't care...

[DBrown77]

Vick doesnt play for the Bills. Who cares.

[THRILLHO]

If we had signed him, he would not have done this well in Buffalo. Reid is a great coach, and McNabb to help him out.

[DraftBoy]

I'm here. You're right about his QB play. He has been lights out, and I was wrong. Not the first time in my life, and certainly won't be the last.

But he is still garbage as a human being. I don't care that he has "done his time." That is a legal thing. Killing dogs is a moral thing, and the things he did are indicative of a a cruel and heartless thug.

Because I honestly don't understand this stance I want to ask this question honestly and hope for an honest response.

Is there anything Vick could ever do to even be back a human being in your eyes?

Like you said he did his time, he's paying back his debtors, he's doing charity work (whether he means it or not). What would he have to do for you? If he could do anything.

[Jan Reimers]

Because I honestly don't understand this stance I want to ask this question honestly and hope for an honest response.

Is there anything Vick could ever do to even be back a human being in your eyes?

Like you said he did his time, he's paying back his debtors, he's doing charity work (whether he means it or not). What would he have to do for you? If he could do anything.
First, there are several posters in this thread that feel exactly the same as I do. I'm not sure why I always seem to be singled out for my opinion, which is shared by so many others. But here is my problem with Vick:

I am a major dog lover. My wife and I have been adopting ex-racing greyhounds for almost 20 years. They are the most affectionate and loving creatures I have ever encountered. We also have two rescue labs, who are an absolute joy to be around.

I simply can't imagine a human being, even in his worst moment, purposefully maiming, torturing and killing such loyal and loving creatures. I can't imagine anyone with even a shred of humanity doing what Vick did.

Let God forgive him. I hate the bastard.

[Philagape]

Must be some kind of innovative prison he went to that includes a program called How to Be an NFL Quarterback.

It's like The Longest Yard in reverse.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Because I honestly don't understand this stance I want to ask this question honestly and hope for an honest response.

Is there anything Vick could ever do to even be back a human being in your eyes?

Like you said he did his time, he's paying back his debtors, he's doing charity work (whether he means it or not). What would he have to do for you? If he could do anything.
For me there's nothing he can do. People do not change. He's human garbage.

[Ingtar33]

Because I honestly don't understand this stance I want to ask this question honestly and hope for an honest response.

Is there anything Vick could ever do to even be back a human being in your eyes?

Like you said he did his time, he's paying back his debtors, he's doing charity work (whether he means it or not). What would he have to do for you? If he could do anything.


he's a human being... he's just a horrible example of one.

You don't prove you're a better person on the football field... you prove it off the field, and he has a LOT of making up to do, outside football, as a person to prove he's a better person.

I'll give him a chance, but i highly suspect in 10 years after he's done playing there won't be any major charities he's running, and he'll probably be in jail again for armed robbery or something... it's just the type of person he's shown himself to be.

If he wants my respect he'll have to earn it. Its not impossible... but i think people these days mistake athletic talent for the quality of person you are. Else there wouldn't be so many licking his balls in this thread

I get it, you're a fan, but it doesn't change who he is.

[hydro]

First, there are several posters in this thread that feel exactly the same as I do. I'm not sure why I always seem to be singled out for my opinion, which is shared by so many others. But here is my problem with Vick:

I am a major dog lover. My wife and I have been adopting ex-racing greyhounds for almost 20 years. They are the most affectionate and loving creatures I have ever encounterd. We also have two rescue labs, who are an absolute joy to be around.

I simply can't imagine a human being, even in his worst moment, purposefully maiming, torturing and killing such loyal and loving creatures. I can't imagine anyone with even a shred of humanity doing what Vick did.

Let God forgive him. I hate the bastard.

This doesn't really answer his question though.

[Jan Reimers]

This doesn't really answer his question though.
OK, my answer is no. There is absolutely nothing Vick can do. He can never undo the horrific, inhuman acts he has committed.

[realdealryan]

OK, my answer is no. There is absolutely nothing Vick can do. He can never undo the horrific, inhuman acts he has committed.

Jan, you are absolutely right. Inhuman. It is precisely that. You have to have a special kind of disconnect to do those things to any dog. 36,000 years of tame dog. Carnivores that now live in our homes. You don't have to have one, but you can't deny the relationship we have with them. Obviously, I love dogs. But the regular man has always gotten something from them, and vice-versa. Where does someone have to go wrong to enjoy all of the things he did to them?

It's much, much deeper than culture.

And like Coach Sal said - who would ever believe that our coaches would have helped him? Vick would only have been available before last year. Not to mention that when Jauron and co left, he probably would have, too, before this season. Vick would have ridden the pine or inevitably performed too poorly to pick up the option on the second season. Or, if you do, its a brand new system to pick up. So he's behind his current development level even further. Apples and oranges.

As a Vick "hater", I want him to do poorly. So, I guess it is time....to say that I still don't care about Vick.

[lmcshadow]

I wish you people would get off of Vick's D***. Hes not the first to fight dogs and he wont be the last. Dog fighting have been around since before half of your ancesters left England....matter of fact English bull fighting started there. So if you want to point the finger just look in your back yard...:shelby:

[Jan Reimers]

I wish you people would get off of Vick's D***. Hes not the first to fight dogs and he wont be the last. Dog fighting have been around since before half of your ancesters left England....matter of fact English bull fighting started there. So if you want to point the finger just look in your back yard...:shelby:
Is your logic always this flawed? Bull fighting started in England? Wow. I guess that totally exonerates Vick for drowning, strangling and electrocuting innocent dogs with his bare hands.

[Figster]

Wasn't to long ago we as a society treated the African American race like animals.

Do you folks have any idea how many African Americans were killed because of our forefathers treatment of them.

Maybe God should look down on all of us as garbage and we should all go to hell.

This holier then thou attitude gets old it really does, Mike Vick has done horrible things and he is paying the price. Vick will pay the price every day for the rest of his life.

Michael Vick tweet a couple days ago : Thank you God for watching over me another night and letting me see another day !


Learn how to forgive people...

[DraftBoy]

First, there are several posters in this thread that feel exactly the same as I do. I'm not sure why I always seem to be singled out for my opinion, which is shared by so many others. But here is my problem with Vick:

I am a major dog lover. My wife and I have been adopting ex-racing greyhounds for almost 20 years. They are the most affectionate and loving creatures I have ever encountered. We also have two rescue labs, who are an absolute joy to be around.

I simply can't imagine a human being, even in his worst moment, purposefully maiming, torturing and killing such loyal and loving creatures. I can't imagine anyone with even a shred of humanity doing what Vick did.

Let God forgive him. I hate the bastard.

Because you were the first one I saw that made the quote. What does it matter?

So to answer the question I asked does that mean there is nothing he can do?

To be frank I dont have an issue with your stance, I dont get it or agree with it, but it is what it is. Im not going to argue that you're wrong for your stance or anything like that. It really was an honest question.

[k-oneputt]

I would take Vick in a second for the Bills.

[Jan Reimers]

The logic on here is amazing. I am not talking about our forefathers and the evils of slavery. I am not talking about the origins or even the horrific evils of dog fighting and bull fighting.

I am talking specifically about Michael Vick and the atrocities he committed against innocent animals.

Maybe God will forgive him. I won't.

[DraftBoy]

The logic on here is amazing. I am not talking about our forefathers and the evils of slavery. I am not talking about the origins or even the horrific evils of dog fighting and bull fighting.

I am talking specifically about Michael Vick and the atrocities he committed against innocent animals.

Maybe God will forgive him. I won't.

Got it, at the very least you are consistent and for that I can have no issue.

[Jan Reimers]

Because you were the first one I saw that made the quote. What does it matter?

So to answer the question I asked does that mean there is nothing he can do?

To be frank I dont have an issue with your stance, I dont get it or agree with it, but it is what it is. Im not going to argue that you're wrong for your stance or anything like that. It really was an honest question.
I know it was an honest question, DB, and I tried to answer it as honestly as I could. In my mind, there is no way he can ever undo the hideous acts he has committed.

Like most everything I post on here, it is just my opinion.

[Figster]

The logic on here is amazing. I am not talking about our forefathers and the evils of slavery. I am not talking about the origins or even the horrific evils of dog fighting and bull fighting.

I am talking specifically about Michael Vick and the atrocities he committed against innocent animals.

Maybe God will forgive him. I won't.


We as a society evolve, see the errors of our ways and change. If we as a society can do it then why in the world can't we as individuals do the same thing. The truth is we can, it happens everyday.

I'm a huge animal lover, especially dogs, and it disgusts me some of the things that Vick has done, but so does a lot of things in this world. Michael Vick is not the same person that committed these atrocities.

You folks are hating someone/something that is dead and gone...

[Bill Cody]

Be fun to see Mike Vick face off against Cam Newton one day.




Why does Cam have an up and coming pit bull to fight?

[Bill Cody]

We as a society evolve, see the errors of our ways and change. If we as a society can do it then why in the world can't we as individuals do the same thing. The truth is we can, it happens everyday.

I'm a huge animal lover, especially dogs, and it disgusts me some of the things that Vick has done, but so does a lot of things in this world. Michael Vick is not the same person that committed these atrocities.

You folks are hating someone/something that is dead and gone...

How touching. And completely speculation unless you have some way to read Vick's mind and heart which you don't.

[Bill Cody]

Learn how to forgive people...


So if OJ were still in his prime and sent a nice tweet you'd want him wearing red white and blue again? Just asking.

Personally I don't have a problem with Vick being back in the league. I just don't want to be put in a position to have to root for him. Does that make me the hardass? Don't know don't care.

[Bill Cody]

So Vick has got game. So what? Does anyone think for a milisecond Atlanta isn't thrilled with exchanging that punk dog killing ***** for a kid like Matt Ryan who wouldn't say **** if he had a mouthful? We all want to win but do we really need to go that far? BTW I was a strong supporter of picking up Troy Smith and drafting Colt McCoy, both of whom are looking pretty damn good right now and neither to my knowledge had their front yards dug up because there were dozens of dogs buried there.

[Figster]

How touching. And completely speculation unless you have some way to read Vick's mind and heart which you don't.


Its no speculation that we as a society get our kicks/entertainment out of watching men and woman kill men and woman on our television sets or at the movies.

Its no speculation that the bloodlines of the African American ancestors still runs deep in our black brothers and sisters and we as a society have stunted their evolution.

I don't have to know whats in Michael Vick's heart to forgive him, its not up to me to judge.

[Pinkerton Security]

Its no speculation that we as a society get our kicks/entertainment out of watching men and woman kill men and woman on our television sets or at the movies.

Its no speculation that the bloodlines of the African American ancestors still runs deep in our black brothers and sisters and we as a society have stunted their evolution.

I don't have to know whats in Michael Vick's heart to forgive him, its not up to me to judge.
Uh...doesnt matter what race the guy is... I'll root against Ben Roethlisberger now every chance I get because he has made it clear that hes a piece of s***....Mike Vick is no different in my mind...yes he deserves a second chance and I hope he remains on the right side of the law...but cut it out with this spouting off about society and race, Vick did bad things so you cant really blame people who dont exactly wanna root for the guy.

[Bill Cody]

Its no speculation that we as a society get our kicks/entertainment out of watching men and woman kill men and woman on our television sets or at the movies.

Is this some kind of psycho babble excuse for why Vick may have thought it was ok to fight dogs? Movies are not real life. What Vick did was very real.


Its no speculation that the bloodlines of the African American ancestors still runs deep in our black brothers and sisters and we as a society have stunted their evolution.

Maybe so. But we are all responsible for our actions.


I don't have to know whats in Michael Vick's heart to forgive him, its not up to me to judge.

That's true it's a free country. But since you concede you don't have any idea what's in his heart how is it you seem to expect everyone else to agree with you? BTW forgiveness isn't even the point. The point is why choose a dog murderer as the face of our franchise when there are other options?

[Figster]

Uh...doesnt matter what race the guy is... I'll root against Ben Roethlisberger now every chance I get because he has made it clear that hes a piece of s***....Mike Vick is no different in my mind...yes he deserves a second chance and I hope he remains on the right side of the law...but cut it out with this spouting off about society and race, Vick did bad things so you cant really blame people who dont exactly wanna root for the guy.


No, I don't blame any of you for feeling the way you guys do, I love animals, especially dogs and realize its pretty hard to explain to ones children why we are cheering for a man that was capable of killing our pets.

Just trying to show some other perspective's that maybe folks haven't thought about, that's all.

For the sake of everyone concerned I'll stop...

[BertSquirtgum]

Its no speculation that we as a society get our kicks/entertainment out of watching men and woman kill men and woman on our television sets or at the movies.

Its no speculation that the bloodlines of the African American ancestors still runs deep in our black brothers and sisters and we as a society have stunted their evolution.

I don't have to know whats in Michael Vick's heart to forgive him, its not up to me to judge.

you're ghey

[Bangarang]

It's not like Vick isn't trying to earn another deal in the NFL or anything. I'm sure he's got a team of P.R. personnel and managers helping him fix his image so he can get one last big pay day.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Lee Evans would look like a million bucks catching passes from Vick

[realdealryan]

You folks are hating someone/something that is dead and gone...

Certainly I don't have any reason to change my opinion of him - he's only brought up on forums occasionally and I don't watch the Eagles. I don't think about him.

But someone who acknowledges this entire saga as something "unfortunate that happened to me" doesn't strike me as repentant. Mike Vick's opinions come across as a poor substitute for genuine remorse - more of a "sorry I got caught breaking the law". I'd likely have a slightly better opinion if he had acknowledged the deeds and actually said he was sorry.

Go to the 'hood ONE TIME and tell the kids about responsible ownership ONE TIME. The Humane Society reached out. It would have helped both sides.



I wish you people would get off of Vick's D***. Hes not the first to fight dogs and he wont be the last. Dog fighting have been around since before half of your ancesters left England....matter of fact English bull fighting started there. So if you want to point the finger just look in your back yard...:shelby:

A) someone started a thread to draw the doubters out, sorry

B) I'm not sure that talking about the ethnicity/locale of where bull-fighting (probably meant bull-baiting) started is any more appropriate than talking about the colors, areas, and class of people with which dogfighting thrives today.

C) My back yard is occasionally full of rescued Pit Bulls


Lee Evans would look like a million bucks catching passes from Vick

zzzzzz....that ship left the harbor in 2009

[tampabay25690]

What he did off the field is off the field...

I thought we are talking about how he has played???

I luv my dog too......But we are talking football not his past life...

[Bill Cody]

What he did off the field is off the field...

I thought we are talking about how he has played???

I luv my dog too......But we are talking football not his past life...

If at some level we don't care about our players as people, feel a connection however distant it is, we are simply rooting for robots wearing our laundry. If you can block out something as heinous as murdering dozens of dogs because it happened "off the field" and therefore doesn't matter, that's fine for you, however sociopathic it sounds to me.

Some of us actually give a **** about the character of the people representing the franchise. I'm not naive and I know the NFL is not loaded with choir boys. Some people figure "he's done his time so it's all good now". Not me thanks. Watching the NFL is a significant investment in time and money. I would never be able to look at Mike Vick and not think about what he and his cronies did to those dogs. The fact that he's playing good ball now doesn't change that.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Michael Vick is clearly an ignorant person. I don't know if it has to do with how he was raised, or where he was raised, but whoever raised him did a poor job. I really believe he's learned from his mistakes and is a better person because of it. Sometimes people need to hit rock bottom before they realize they need a lifestyle change, it happens to normal people too.

I, for one, could not possibly care less what he does in his spare time. I have a dog, and have had one my whole life. It's my parents, but I consider it mine too.

The whole 'he'll get his in the afterlife' argument is comical, that stuff is all make believe to me.

I would've loved to see him in a Bills uniform and I think the Bills would have 2-4 wins right now if we had him. We'd also be able to use our 1st round pick on a solid lineman instead of a QB. Not saying we're going to take a QB, but I'd like it if we didn't have to.

[Bill Cody]

I, for one, could not possibly care less what he does in his spare time.

Just wondering how far you "it's off the field so I don't care" types would take this. So if Vick was Hannibal Lecter in his "spare time" would that be fine? Hey it's his hobby, right?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Just wondering how far you "it's off the field so I don't care" types would take this. So if Vick was Hannibal Lecter in his "spare time" would that be fine? Hey it's his hobby, right?

I would root for Hitler if he was the reason the Bills won a championship.

[Bill Cody]

I would root for Hitler if he was the reason the Bills won a championship.

Ok I've got to throw the flag on that one:penalty:

[Joe Fo Sho]

Ok I've got to throw the flag on that one:penalty:

I don't see the problem.

[mayotm]

I don't see the problem.You don't? Are you that stupid?

[Mr. Pink]

I'm sure people in Baltmore root for Ray Lewis.

[Pinkerton Security]

You don't? Are you that stupid?

Yes he is.

[ejsmith]

Alright, I'm probably going to get raped for this... but here goes...

I have dogs just like everyone else and I love my dogs, but what if you were brought up to not consider a dog a pet? I mean a dog is an animal, isn't it? Do men not go hunting and slaughter animals every single day? That seems to be OK, no? But they don't do it for fun right? Yeah, right. I know a LOT of men who love nothing more than to slaughter their prey, it's not about providing for their families at this point. I mean we have grocery stores, don't we??

I mean, I get it. Some of the things he reportedly did seem to go across the line to psychotic land. But I just think people don't seem to understand that he was brought up in an environment where dog fighting was an entertainment event. Hell, look at the Roman coliseum. 100s of thousands of people used to gather round to watch human beings get slaughtered for entertainment. Do you think every single one of those people were evil??

My point is, don't you guys think that its possible that circumstances have a lot to do with what we think is right and wrong??? The guy has lost probably $100+ million and 2 years of his life and been absolutely crucified in public. At some point, don't you think we can get over it and give the guy a second chance??

Let the flaming begin.

[Mr. Pink]

Alright, I'm probably going to get raped for this... but here goes...

I have dogs just like everyone else and I love my dogs, but what if you were brought up to not consider a dog a pet? I mean a dog is an animal, isn't it? Do men not go hunting and slaughter animals every single day? That seems to be OK, no? But they don't do it for fun right? Yeah, right. I know a LOT of men who love nothing more than to slaughter their prey, it's not about providing for their families at this point. I mean we have grocery stores, don't we??

I mean, I get it. Some of the things he reportedly did seem to go across the line to psychotic land. But I just think people don't seem to understand that he was brought up in an environment where dog fighting was an entertainment event. Hell, look at the Roman coliseum. 100s of thousands of people used to gather round to watch human beings get slaughtered for entertainment. Do you think every single one of those people were evil??

My point is, don't you guys think that its possible that circumstances have a lot to do with what we think is right and wrong??? The guy has lost probably $100+ million and 2 years of his life and been absolutely crucified in public. At some point, don't you think we can get over it and give the guy a second chance??

Let the flaming begin.


NO!

Because dogs are cute. You cannot kill the cute animals.

Just kidding, I've voiced the same above opinion on Vick many times.

[ejsmith]

Not to mention that we are on a football forum. Football is a VIOLENT sport with men trying to violently hurt other men. But I guess none of us like violence and it's not in our very nature, eh?

[Syderick]

I would root for Hitler if he was the reason the Bills won a championship.

:wtf:

[Joe Fo Sho]

Alright, I'm probably going to get raped for this... but here goes...

I have dogs just like everyone else and I love my dogs, but what if you were brought up to not consider a dog a pet? I mean a dog is an animal, isn't it? Do men not go hunting and slaughter animals every single day? That seems to be OK, no? But they don't do it for fun right? Yeah, right. I know a LOT of men who love nothing more than to slaughter their prey, it's not about providing for their families at this point. I mean we have grocery stores, don't we??

I mean, I get it. Some of the things he reportedly did seem to go across the line to psychotic land. But I just think people don't seem to understand that he was brought up in an environment where dog fighting was an entertainment event. Hell, look at the Roman coliseum. 100s of thousands of people used to gather round to watch human beings get slaughtered for entertainment. Do you think every single one of those people were evil??

My point is, don't you guys think that its possible that circumstances have a lot to do with what we think is right and wrong??? The guy has lost probably $100+ million and 2 years of his life and been absolutely crucified in public. At some point, don't you think we can get over it and give the guy a second chance??

Let the flaming begin.

^

Exactly, it was a different time back then, the winners at the Roman Coliseum were considered heroes. Hitler was great to the German people, just sayin...

People seem to hate on Vick because it's easier than trying to bring down McDonald's to the ground for slaughter millions of cows. I don't see the difference, other than dogs are cute. I for one can see some shades of cuteness in cows...but they're delicious.

[Bill Cody]

Alright, I'm probably going to get raped for this... but here goes...

I have dogs just like everyone else and I love my dogs, but what if you were brought up to not consider a dog a pet? I mean a dog is an animal, isn't it? Do men not go hunting and slaughter animals every single day? That seems to be OK, no? But they don't do it for fun right? Yeah, right. I know a LOT of men who love nothing more than to slaughter their prey, it's not about providing for their families at this point. I mean we have grocery stores, don't we??

I am not a fan of hunting but you're really stretching things to compare dogs to squirrels or other game. And Vick sure as hell knows dogs are pets. I rate that argument FAIL.


I mean, I get it. Some of the things he reportedly did seem to go across the line to psychotic land. But I just think people don't seem to understand that he was brought up in an environment where dog fighting was an entertainment event. Hell, look at the Roman coliseum. 100s of thousands of people used to gather round to watch human beings get slaughtered for entertainment. Do you think every single one of those people were evil??

There is a reason the guys house was painted black and they held the fights at night. Vick and everyone involved knew dog fighting is illegal. And yes I think every one of the people that attended those Roman events is twisted. I am not religious but if there is a God I think he's LOL at this kind of weak assed excuse factory. I give Vick credit for not going down the "we done been fightin dem dogs in our famly for years" claptrap.


My point is, don't you guys think that its possible that circumstances have a lot to do with what we think is right and wrong??? The guy has lost probably $100+ million and 2 years of his life and been absolutely crucified in public. At some point, don't you think we can get over it and give the guy a second chance??

Let the flaming begin.

I already agreed he should get a 2nd chance. Just not with the Bills.

[Figster]

My late father served in the Korean war as a bomb disposal expert. He once told me of a time when the unit he was in had a small dog as a mascot. One day the dog came up missing. Come to find out the Korean camp boy who often did chores and served meals to the soldiers had slaughtered the dog and served it to the men in my fathers unit. Naturally the men were very upset and wanted the camp boy reprimanded.

Much to my father and the rest of the units dismay they later found out the young boy was taken out in a field by the Koreans and executed, this is a true story.

To some folks on this site maybe justice was served, to others a horrible, injustice had occurred. Being the sensitive and forgiving man my father was ( much like myself) its something that ate away at him for the rest of his life.

Imagine that, a young boys life for a dog...


Note: Mods If you feel this is an inappropriate post on this forum then delete.

[Bill Cody]

^

Exactly, it was a different time back then, the winners at the Roman Coliseum were considered heroes. Hitler was great to the German people, just sayin...

ok stop with the Hitler comparisons. not funny.


People seem to hate on Vick because it's easier than trying to bring down McDonald's to the ground for slaughter millions of cows. I don't see the difference, other than dogs are cute. I for one can see some shades of cuteness in cows...but they're delicious.

I honestly don't believe you making this as a serious argument, you're just trying to get a rise out of people. Humans are carnivores. There is a difference between killing cows/game for food and killing pets for laughs. I'm done with this discussion.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I am not a fan of hunting but you're really stretching things to compare dogs to squirrels or other game.

How come?

[Figster]

ok stop with the Hitler comparisons. not funny.



I honestly don't believe you making this as a serious argument, you're just trying to get a rise out of people. Humans are carnivores. There is a difference between killing cows/game for food and killing pets for laughs. I'm done with this discussion.


That's good, maybe we can all be done with this discussion because there is no winner here.

[Joe Fo Sho]

ok stop with the Hitler comparisons. not funny.



I honestly don't believe you making this as a serious argument, you're just trying to get a rise out of people. Humans are carnivores. There is a difference between killing cows/game for food and killing pets for laughs. I'm done with this discussion.

I'm not trying to get a rise out of people, I'm just stating my opinion.

Killing dogs and killing deer is the same to me, I really don't see a difference. The pet argument maybe? What about killing a hamster? Is that the same as a dog?

Clearly this conversation has gotten out of hand.

[Bill Cody]

How come?

four reasons:

1) dogs have been domesticated as pets in modern society for many years. They are not considered wild animals.

2) Even if you're a devoted hunter and you of the opinion that all animals should be "fair game", dog fighting is a very barbaric painful way for an animal to die. If you don't know this to be the case I recommend you look into it. Chickens are not as advanced a species as dogs but society also deems **** fighting to be be cruel and inhumane and makes it illegal.

3) What Vick did wasn't hunting it was execution: drowning dogs, hanging dogs, electrocuting dogs, training them to be super aggressive with acts of cruelty. Read the report of the charges that were brought against him. If you have a hint of a conscience you'll understand this wasn't the same as hunting birds.

4) Quite simply dog fighting is illegal in every state in the US. Take your BS arguments to them.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

I will never forgive the sick, cruel dog killer. Vick's a piece of crap.

[Joe Fo Sho]

four reasons:

1) dogs have been domesticated as pets in modern society for many years. They are not considered wild animals.

2) Even if you're a devoted hunter and you of the opinion that all animals should be "fair game", dog fighting is a very barbaric painful way for an animal to die. If you don't know this to be the case I recommend you look into it. Chickens are not as advanced a species as dogs but society also deems **** fighting to be be cruel and inhumane and makes it illegal.

3) What Vick did wasn't hunting it was execution: drowning dogs, hanging dogs, electrocuting dogs, training them to be super aggressive with acts of cruelty. Read the report of the charges that were brought against him. If you have a hint of a conscience you'll understand this wasn't the same as hunting birds.

4) Quite simply dog fighting is illegal in every state in the US. Take your BS arguments to them.

Alright, I'm not saying that dog fighting isn't cruel. My original statement was that I don't care what NFL players do outside of football. Their job is purely to entertain me for 3 hours on Sunday.

I don't like how dogs are considered better than other animals because they are domesticated, can show emotion, and are smarter than other animals...that's crap. I have a cousin who can't do any of that and we still love him.

I'm sure a big part of the reason that its illegal in every state is that people make profit off of dogfighting because of gambling. There are plenty of laws in this nation that I disagree with.

[Jan Reimers]

Killing dogs and killing deer is the same to me, I really don't see a difference. The pet argument maybe? What about killing a hamster? Is that the same as a dog?
You continue to miss a very key point here. Vick viciously strangled, drowned and electrocuted dogs with his bare hands. I would condemn anyone who did that to almost any animal.

Hunters don't generally torture deer or other prey in anywhere near such inhumane ways.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You continue to miss a very key point here. Vick viciously strangled, drowned and electrocuted dogs with his bare hands. I would condemn anyone who did that to almost any animal.

Hunters don't generally torture deer or other prey in anywhere near such inhumane ways.

No, I get it. I just think it's almost equally as mean to murder a deer.

MY point is that I don't care that he's done either of those things. That's all I was trying to say.

[Jan Reimers]

There are a couple of other differences, too. Vick promoted the "sport" of dog fighting, the sole purpose of which is for one dog to injure or kill another. Responsible hunters do nothing even close to this.

And dogs are capable of deep love and loyalty to humans, which is generally not the case with wild animals.

So please, do not draw some moral equivalency between dog fighting/torturing and killing dogs, vs. responsible hunting. There is none.

[Mr. Pink]

There are a couple of other differences, too. Vick promoted the "sport" of dog fighting, the sole purpose of which is for one dog to injure or kill another. Responsible hunters do nothing even close to this.

And dogs are capable of deep love and loyalty to humans, which is generally not the case with wild animals.

So please, do not draw some moral equivalency between dog fighting/torturing and killing dogs, vs. responsible hunting. There is none.


Don't confuse love with dependence.

Dogs "love" their owner because that's who feeds them.

Killing is killing regardless of how it happens.

Are you saying deer don't suffer when they're shot? Fish don't suffer when they've got a hook in their mouth and then asphyxiate to death out of the water?

Come on now.

[jdbillsfan]

Some people grow up in a different environment/culture than the rest of us where money, education, family influence is much different. If were I grew up, all of my friends were fighting dogs, I didn't have the support of my family/parents and I didn't have money, then things might have turned out differently for me.

Mike Vick grew up in Norfolk VA and maybe dog fighting was more prevalent in his youth and growing up. Once he is in the NFL, it probably isn't easy to stop doing what he and his friends have been doing his whole life. It is a total different upbringing and way of life for some people.

In my eyes, I can' t really relate to his upbringing and child hood so it is harder for me to judge. Even in the rap culture, dog fighting is on the albums, songs, cd covers etc. Kids hear that in their music, see it in the neighborhood...

Michael Vick is put up as the king pin of all of dog fighting. He was a part of a much bigger problem and now he has paid the price.

[Joe Fo Sho]

There are a couple of other differences, too. Vick promoted the "sport" of dog fighting, the sole purpose of which is for one dog to injure or kill another. Responsible hunters do nothing even close to this.

And dogs are capable of deep love and loyalty to humans, which is generally not the case with wild animals.

So please, do not draw some moral equivalency between dog fighting/torturing and killing dogs, vs. responsible hunting. There is none.

I know some people that aren't capable of deep love and loyalty to humans, what does that mean about them? Can I shoot them if they were in season?

I'm not trying to say that they are morally equivalent, I'm trying to say that they're close enough to me to be put in the same category. I don't hunt, I don't fight dogs, I don't even like killing spiders but that's cuz they freak me out. If you are a hunter, that doesn't make me respect you any less. Dog fighting does, but not enough for me to want to be hung or go to 'hell,' whatever that is.

[Lexwhat]

One thing about Jan -- he will not agree with any of the opposing viewpoints mentioned in this thread (that's not a knock on him, that is what he has explicitly said).

He has a very soft spot for dogs and refuses to waver from that.

So to anyone that is interested in debating with him -- I'm just sayin that you are wasting your time.

[Jan Reimers]

Don't confuse love with dependence.

Dogs "love" their owner because that's who feeds them.

Killing is killing regardless of how it happens.

Are you saying deer don't suffer when they're shot? Fish don't suffer when they've got a hook in their mouth and then asphyxiate to death out of the water?

Come on now.
I actually feel sorry for you. Anyone that equates the purposeful maiming, torturing and killing of dogs with responsible hunting and fishing has never known the pure joy of having a dog. And a dog's love and loyalty goes far beyond dependence.

Too bad you've missed it.

I won't argue this topic anymore.

[Mr. Pink]

I actually feel sorry for you. Anyone that equates the purposeful maiming, torturing and killing of dogs with responsible hunting and fishing has never known the pure joy of having a dog. And a dog's love and loyalty goes far beyond dependence.

Too bad you've missed it.

I won't argue this topic anymore.

I've had plenty of dogs, cats and ferrets in my lifetime.

At the end of the day a dog is just that, a dog. Another member of the animal kingdom.

I'm sure the cows who are kept in stockades and fed and fed and fed til they're bashed over the head with a mallet feel no pain over their lives either, right?

Then again a juicy steak is infinitely more important to us as a people than a cow.

[Figster]

The most favorite story I remember reading from childhood was old Yeller. Kavik the wolf dog, white fang, the call of the wild among others were all big favorites of mine. A small dog will stand up to a grizzly bear to protect his family. Dogs are used to find survivors and deceased from natural catastrophes. In many instances dogs help track down people who are lost or criminals who don't want to be found. Dogs help fight the war on drugs and crime in general. Dogs are our eyes when we can't see, our nose for things we can't smell.

Dogs are truly a mans best friend, and for those of you that stand up to people that would try to harm them I commend you all...


Note: Here's the kicker, If you were to ask a dog who he thought was more important, man or beast, regardless If its the president of the United States, the Pope, OJ Simpson, or Osama bin laden, If a dog could speak he would say "why man of course".

"I'm a dog, its what I do, I'm mans best friend"

[Typ0]

with the status of our QB situation dead dogs or not Vick should have been on this team. Separate the issues the sport is not a big fat human interest story and Vick payed his debt and is trying to turn his life around.