Have the Bills found their franchise LT?

[BillsWin]

Demetrius Bell is having a fantastic year. It is overlooked because we are a bad football team. But the Bills may have addressed one of their biggest weakness by simply doing nothing.

Bell in his first season as a starter was erratic and not very reliable. He allowed five sacks in just 8 games played. The major problem with Bell was that he had no discipline. He was flagged six times for false starts.

A year later and he has improved drastically.

He has had two false starts in nine games. That is a big-time improvement and saves the team some stupid penalty yards.

Now onto sacks allowed. Scouts INC says that Bell has allowed just 1.25 sacks in nine games. That is big league. How big league?

Jake Long- 1.00 sacks allowed in first nine games.
Jammal Brown- 3.00 sacks allowed
Levi Brown- 5.00 sacks allowed
Bryan Bulaga- 4.50 sacks allowed
Jason Peters- 2.00 sacks allowed, but with 3 holding penalties.
Joe Thomas 3.00 sacks allowed
Bryant McKinnie 2.00 sacks allowed

Bell is performing at a level rivaling the top NFL tackles in the game. If he keeps this up, our clear weak link on the offensive line is right tackle. If that isn't the clear weakness already.

[Dujek]

Bell has looked good this year, especially in passing situations. He still needs to make some improvements in the run game.

[Ebenezer]

I'd like a check on how many times the Bills run to the right. That will speak volumes.

[Ginger Vitis]

Scouts INC says that Bell has allowed just 1.25 sacks



Weird..How can you be scored for giving up .25 of a sack?

[mysticsoto]

Bell has looked good this year, especially in passing situations. He still needs to make some improvements in the run game.
I think they all need improvement in the run game!

RT is much improved with Green hurt...did Gailey really need Green hurt to see that?

My only disappointment is Wood. He's not the same as he was last year. I'm hoping that he returns to form next year or we may need to start thinking of a new Guard.

All that being said, our backups are horrible - we need to address our depth in the lower rds next draft.

But yes, Bell (who I was pretty high on when we got him despite everyone's assertion that he was a waste) is playing pretty well!

[OpIv37]

Franchise LT? That's insane.

I think Bell is looking like a serviceable LT, and we can get by with him for a year or two while we address other glaring holes on this team. But he is by no means a franchise LT.

[ptd86]

I think Fitz makes the line look better than it is. He gets rid of the ball quick and always seems to being getting hit hard as soon as he releases it

[Jan Reimers]

It doesn't matter how well Bell plays. He was not a college stud with a big name and a high draft number. Therefore, to some on here, he will never really be a good player.

[mayotm]

Franchise LT? That's insane.

I think Bell is looking like a serviceable LT, and we can get by with him for a year or two while we address other glaring holes on this team. But he is by no means a franchise LT.I agree that he's not a "franchise" (whatever that subjective term means) at this point. However, I disagree that he's only good enough to start for a year or two. He could be the starting LT for years to come. Especially if he continues improving. He is young and still quite raw. If I'm not mistaken, he didn't play high school football and only played two years of college. So he's been playing football for five years. It's not unreasonable to think he's going to contiune getting better.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I liked how this coaching staff eased Bell in; in fact he's still being taken out from time to time 9 weeks into the season. It's very smart way of handling players coming back from serious injury - maybe the organization finally learned how to deal with injury issues.

I'd not call Bell a franchise LT because I just don't think he's part of the cornerstone the Bills to build on. Maybe he can develop into that role down the road through continued imrpovement.

Being in Steel town I can't help to notice that the Steelers have not had a franchise LT for years and they have won two superbowls and is generally recognized as a power house. I'm more of the opinion that QB is much more important. Let's face it, there are guys like Dilfer to won superbowls; but the percentage of top QB leading team to superbowl wins are much higher.

[Beebe's Kid]

It doesn't matter how well Bell plays. He was not a college stud with a big name and a high draft number. Therefore, to some on here, he will never really be a good player.

He is Karl Malone's boy, however, and if somebody didn't know that, that certainly makes him better.

[ddaryl]

there is a lot to be said by sometimes just sticking to your own guys and giving them a chance to succeed.

Johnson, Bell, Fitz, Williams all seem to be stepping it up

giving up on guys who don't come around in a year or 2 and replacing them with FA's is the mentality that has put us in the lost decade.

[Beebe's Kid]

I think they all need improvement in the run game!

RT is much improved with Green hurt...did Gailey really need Green hurt to see that?

My only disappointment is Wood. He's not the same as he was last year. I'm hoping that he returns to form next year or we may need to start thinking of a new Guard.

All that being said, our backups are horrible - we need to address our depth in the lower rds next draft.

But yes, Bell (who I was pretty high on when we got him despite everyone's assertion that he was a waste) is playing pretty well!

What were your expectations of Wood??

He has been playing a lot better as the season progresses, too. I wouldn't call him a disappointment at all. In fact he's doing better than I thought he might coming back on a titanium stick. One of the interesting things that I was told about the surgery he had, by a physician, was that the length of the leg is subject to change. That is kind of a big adjustment.

[OpIv37]

It doesn't matter how well Bell plays. He was not a college stud with a big name and a high draft number. Therefore, to some on here, he will never really be a good player.

Yeah, obviously that's it.

It has nothing to do with someone getting too excited about a player who sucked for a year then was slightly above average for 9 games, 8 of which we lost....

[Sell Local Ralph]

Yeah, obviously that's it.

It has nothing to do with someone getting too excited about a player who sucked for a year then was slightly above average for 9 games, 8 of which we lost....

lol now we judge tackles based on wins and losses?

[OpIv37]

lol now we judge tackles based on wins and losses?

we judge everyone based on wins and losses.

This whole thread is loser talk. "we're 1-8, but on the plus side, Demetrius Bell doesn't completely suck anymore."

You'd never hear Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Cowboys or Eagles fans spouting such nonsense.

[jamze132]

we judge everyone based on wins and losses.

This whole thread is loser talk. "we're 1-8, but on the plus side, Demetrius Bell doesn't completely suck anymore."

You'd never hear Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Cowboys or Eagles fans spouting such nonsense.
I doubt you would hear Bills fans talking like that if we didn't suck balls.

[mayotm]

we judge everyone based on wins and losses.

This whole thread is loser talk. "we're 1-8, but on the plus side, Demetrius Bell doesn't completely suck anymore."

You'd never hear Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Cowboys or Eagles fans spouting such nonsense.
Looks like somebody is overly pissy this morning. There's absolutely nothing wrong with fans trying to find some positives in this crappy season. Everybody realizes that as a whole the team sucks. So, most of us are simply trying to analyze which areas / players may be good enough to stick and build around.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I agree, Bell has played real good. I don't care that he wont be an allpro, he's a solid LT and once he gets stronger in the run game, he will be legit. The kid is really having a good year. What's even better is that there's a few RT's in this draft that could start immediatly. Of course I'd love to sign Ryan Harris or Jeremy Trueblood.

[THRILLHO]

He has improved simply in the fact we do not hear his name every week. Last year, and the start of this year we kept hearing his name, but for penalties and blown assignments.

[OpIv37]

Looks like somebody is overly pissy this morning. There's absolutely nothing wrong with fans trying to find some positives in this crappy season. Everybody realizes that as a whole the team sucks. So, most of us are simply trying to analyze which areas / players may be good enough to stick and build around.

First, what good is a positive if it doesn't lead to more wins?

Second, a positive is one thing, but declaring Demetrius Bell a franchise LT after 9 somewhat decent games is just ridiculous.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Sorry but Bell is incompetent as a LT. I'd replace his ass thru draft to be blunt

[BuffaloBlitz83]

First, what good is a positive if it doesn't lead to more wins?

Second, a positive is one thing, but declaring Demetrius Bell a franchise LT after 9 somewhat decent games is just ridiculous.

He has been average at best!

[OpIv37]

He has been average at best!

He's clearly improved over last year but he's still far from a franchise LT.

[trapezeus]

i agree with the line as a whole needs to get better at run blocking.

there were spurts of hope in the lions games. the longer fred jackson runs were wide open holes.

i personally think this unit needs to stay together for the last 7 games and they have to just keep getting better.

i think the problem of this team is truly defensive at this point. the bills are running offensively with almost everyone.

[PromoTheRobot]

Franchise LT? That's insane.

I think Bell is looking like a serviceable LT, and we can get by with him for a year or two while we address other glaring holes on this team. But he is by no means a franchise LT.
Opi...always the beacon of reality.

PTR

[Philagape]

Recently I've seen several threads like this, saying so-and-so isn't so bad, is actually pretty good. It's not uncommon to see posts extolling the impressive play of:
Fitzpatrick, Jackson, Johnson, Evans, Bell, Wood, Edwards, Williams, Stroud, Poz, Whitner and more. Even Kelsay! (who's "not the problem on this team," I read here the other day). And Gailey as well.
So if all these players are so worthy of praise,
HOW THE HELL IS THIS TEAM 1-8????????

Evaluating Bills by comparing them to other Bills is a symptom of the disease called Bills fanhood.
So is arriving at these revelations by silly metric lists.

[Sell Local Ralph]

First, what good is a positive if it doesn't lead to more wins?

You build a winning team brick by brick, it's not a switch you turn on. Explain how if Bell turns out to be a good player and we don't need to use an early draft pick on a LT that isn't helpful to winning? Common sense would tell you that's a positive. Try using it.


Second, a positive is one thing, but declaring Demetrius Bell a franchise LT after 9 somewhat decent games is just ridiculous.

The thread was a question not a statement and it's a legitamate one. It's hard to know how good he can be. The reason he was a 7th rounder was the guy was as green as grass. He has physical tools and he's progressing very well, that much is fact. Right now he's average overall because he's not stout enough in the run game but to say he does not have a franchise tackle level ceiling is the only ridiculous thing in this thread and guess who said it??

[PromoTheRobot]

Recently I've seen several threads like this, saying so-and-so isn't so bad, is actually pretty good. It's not uncommon to see posts extolling the impressive play of:
Fitzpatrick, Jackson, Johnson, Evans, Bell, Wood, Edwards, Williams, Stroud, Poz, Whitner and more. Even Kelsay! (who's "not the problem on this team," I read here the other day). And Gailey as well.
So if all these players are so worthy of praise,
HOW THE HELL IS THIS TEAM 1-8????????

Evaluating Bills by comparing them to other Bills is a symptom of the disease called Bills fanhood.
So is arriving at these revelations by silly metric lists.

The team is 1-8 for several reasons:
1) Starting Trent Edwards at QB for two games
2) Learning a new 3-4 defense that had to be modified later
3) Mental errors at critical times.

These Bills look a lot like the '86 Bills...they were in a lot of games but made one or two killer mistakes that cost them games. Change a handful of plays and this team is 5-4. We've only been blown out in two games. The important thing is we can see improvement...well, except Opi.

PTR

[OpIv37]

You build a winning team brick by brick, it's not a switch you turn on. Explain how if Bell turns out to be a good player and we don't need to use an early draft pick on a LT that isn't helpful to winning? Common sense would tell you that's a positive. Try using it.



The thread was a question not a statement and it's a legitamate one. It's hard to know how good he can be. The reason he was a 7th rounder was the guy was as green as grass. He has physical tools and he's progressing very well, that much is fact. Right now he's average overall because he's not stout enough in the run game but to say he does not have a franchise tackle level ceiling is the only ridiculous thing in this thread and guess who said it??

lmao- this is EXACTLY why the Bills always lose and EXACTLY why fans like you get what you deserve from this team. "He has a franchise level ceiling." Please. Over the last decade, that's true of probably 100 players that have been on this roster. None of them ever amounted to that. Yeah, he has a franchise level ceiling but he could just as easily revert to his 2009 sack-and-penalty machine form. Stop becoming enamored with every player who can make it through half a season without sucking.

When some players on this team actually reach that "franchise level ceiling," then you can go ahead and call my post ridiculous. Until then, you're putting the theoretical over actual results.

[Sell Local Ralph]

lmao- this is EXACTLY why the Bills always lose and EXACTLY why fans like you get what you deserve from this team. "He has a franchise level ceiling." Please. Over the last decade, that's true of probably 100 players that have been on this roster. None of them ever amounted to that. Yeah, he has a franchise level ceiling but he could just as easily revert to his 2009 sack-and-penalty machine form. Stop becoming enamored with every player who can make it through half a season without sucking.

When some players on this team actually reach that "franchise level ceiling," then you can go ahead and call my post ridiculous. Until then, you're putting the theoretical over actual results.

Hahahahaha you are a piece of work

He doesn't have to even become franchise level for it to be a positive. If Bell is adeqaute or better that's a huge plus considering where he was before the season- hurt, inexperienced, inconsistent. It defies logic that someone who was very inexperienced and has all the tools physically would somehow forget what he's learned, get weaker and regress. But I know that's logical in your world.

No, I think we can safely say Bell is a keeper at minimum. Beyond that who knows? As to your point about that's why the Bills lose that's LOL. Buddy Nix has shown in his short time as GM he's not married to players that can't perform, look at all the dead wood he's ushered out the door. Stop trying to pin a decades worth of ineptitude on his doorstep. As for the fans, just because you are a whining negative curmudgeon doesn't make your opinions any more valid than the rest of us. Have a great day!:curtsey:

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I read somewhere that a superbow challenging team needs 4-5 stars, 15 or so core guys, 7 developing ones (like rookies), around 3 need guys (for emergency backups at something think positions), and the rest are the run-of-the-mills dudes.

This team obviously has no stars (though Lee might be very close to that), but I'm thinking Bell is into the core guys category.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, obviously that's it.

It has nothing to do with someone getting too excited about a player who sucked for a year then was slightly above average for 9 games, 8 of which we lost....

are you blaming Bell for our losses?

You wanted Anthony Davis in the 1st round. He isn't playing very well. Bell is playing way better and yet you find a way to bitch about him?


http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?id=5608&sport=NFL

[DesertFox24]

It doesn't matter how well Bell plays. He was not a college stud with a big name and a high draft number. Therefore, to some on here, he will never really be a good player.

Exactly it is shame how many Mel Kipers we have on here.

I guess james harrison is a scrub too. He played at Kent and was cut by the ravens and was on the steelers prac squad his first year.

[OpIv37]

Hahahahaha you are a piece of work

He doesn't have to even become franchise level for it to be a positive. If Bell is adeqaute or better that's a huge plus considering where he was before the season- hurt, inexperienced, inconsistent. It defies logic that someone who was very inexperienced and has all the tools physically would somehow forget what he's learned, get weaker and regress. But I know that's logical in your world.

No, I think we can safely say Bell is a keeper at minimum. Beyond that who knows? As to your point about that's why the Bills lose that's LOL. Buddy Nix has shown in his short time as GM he's not married to players that can't perform, look at all the dead wood he's ushered out the door. Stop trying to pin a decades worth of ineptitude on his doorstep. As for the fans, just because you are a whining negative curmudgeon doesn't make your opinions any more valid than the rest of us. Have a great day!:curtsey:

It defies logic that he would regress? Then explain Whitner, Poz, Evans, Hardy, McCargo, Losman, McKelvin and probably a dozen other players over the last decade. All have all the physical tools and all regressed.

The Bills lose because as individuals, everyone defends every mediocre player on this team. Well, when you put a bunch of mediocrity together, you get mediocre results. If Buddy Nix keeps a player like Bell because he had 9 decent games, then he's doing EXACTLY what the previous administration did and we should expect the EXACT same results.

And once again, you're trying to make this about me because you can't defend your opinion. Some opinions are more valid than others because some opinions have more logic behind them. Stop trying to summarily dismiss my opinions simply because they're not all sunshine and roses like you'd like them to be.

[DesertFox24]

For the record for this team to get over the hump we have to stop drafting for need and draft best player available in every round.

If a stud LT is on the board when we draft then we have to take him, then you move him to RT or Bell to RT making two positions stronger and then you have guys like Cord Wrotto and Wang as backups who have played making depth better.

The only way for us to get better and make the playoffs is to the make the 53 better and more talented.

[OpIv37]

Exactly it is shame how many Mel Kipers we have on here.

I guess james harrison is a scrub too. He played at Kent and was cut by the ravens and was on the steelers prac squad his first year.

Ah yes, the standard Billszone mantra of using the exception to prove the rule. Forget about the hundreds of players from no-name schools who were on practice squads and got cut. One guy took that path and became a super star, so let's never give up on any player in the same situation!

Please.

[OpIv37]

For the record for this team to get over the hump we have to stop drafting for need and draft best player available in every round.

If a stud LT is on the board when we draft then we have to take him, then you move him to RT or Bell to RT making two positions stronger and then you have guys like Cord Wrotto and Wang as backups who have played making depth better.

The only way for us to get better and make the playoffs is to the make the 53 better and more talented.

I half agree. The reality is that this team has a lot of holes, and they have to be addressed. Drafting for BPA seems to result in getting better players than drafting for need, but if we don't fill holes in the draft, then we have to fill them via FA, and this team simply refuses to do that for some strange reason.

We're stuck in a situation where we have to choose between drafting a lesser player at a position of need, or doing nothing to address a glaring hole, and it's extremely frustrating.

[mayotm]

First, what good is a positive if it doesn't lead to more wins?

Second, a positive is one thing, but declaring Demetrius Bell a franchise LT after 9 somewhat decent games is just ridiculous.At this point, a positive is something to build on for next year. In some of your other posts in this thread, you seem to suggest that individuals can't be playing well if the team has a bad record. I disagree with that stance.

Regarding Bell, I agree that it's ridiculous to call him a franchise LT. However, he has improved from bad to average in one season. As I stated earlier, it's not unreasonable to suggest that he keeps improving. Again, he hasn't been playing football for that long. That's the reason many feel his potential MAY be bigger than your average 7th round draft pick.

[Philagape]

Exactly it is shame how many Mel Kipers we have on here.

I guess james harrison is a scrub too. He played at Kent and was cut by the ravens and was on the steelers prac squad his first year.


Did you just invoke James Harrison in a discussion about Demetrius Bell????? Really??

Harrison isn't a scrub because he's an All-Pro who has helped his team win a Super Bowl.
Now back to Bell's world ...

[OpIv37]

At this point, a positive is something to build on for next year. In some of your other posts in this thread, you seem to suggest that individuals can't be playing well if the team has a bad record. I disagree with that stance.


That's not exactly what I said.

My point is that posters on this board stand up for individuals- Whitner, McKelvin, Evans, Parrish, Jackson, Spiller, Hangartner, Wood, Bell, Levitre, Fitzpatrick, Poz, and on occasion even Kelsay.

Well, as Philagape already said, if none of these guys suck, why are we 1-8? Sure, individuals can play well even if the team as a whole is struggling, but if that many individuals were really playing well, there is no way the team would be 1-8.

We collectively tend to overrate the talent on this team, and I think the Bills' FO does the same thing (and I'm sure the Sabres' FO does it, but that's a different discussion). And that's a major reason why this team has been so bad.

[justasportsfan]

That's not exactly what I said.

.Being that it's a Bell thread and what you said (below) I also though that you were implying that part of the reason we're 1-8 is because of Bell.


It has nothing to do with someone getting too excited about a player who sucked for a year then was slightly above average for 9 games, 8 of which we lost.....

BTW< I don't think Bell is a franchise LT. He'd have to do what he's doing for more than 9 games. Consistency is the name of the game. If he lplays the way he does next year and the year after, only then can we say he's close to it.

[OpIv37]

Being that it's a Bell thread and what you said (below) I also though that you were implying that part of the reason we're 1-8 is because of Bell.

I was implying that a player improving doesn't do us any good if it doesn't lead to more wins, not necessarily that the losses were his fault. A team that loses with a good LT is no better than a team that loses with a bad LT.

[NaturalBornSpiller]

I was implying that a player improving doesn't do us any good if it doesn't lead to more wins, not necessarily that the losses were his fault. A team that loses with a good LT is no better than a team that loses with a bad LT.

So lets summarize your thoughts...a player improving is only a good thing if he single handedly wins games...at left tackle....makes sense to me!

[justasportsfan]

I was implying that a player improving doesn't do us any good if it doesn't lead to more wins, .

an improving player can't win an entire game for us by himself but he is definitely not bad for a team.

Bell is not a reason for our 8 losses which is why I wouldn't lump him in the same sentence with those losses.

[OpIv37]

So lets summarize your thoughts...a player improving is only a good thing if he single handedly wins games...at left tackle....makes sense to me!

My thoughts are that the goal is to win games. As it stands now, we are going to finish this season with significantly fewer wins than last season.

So, whatever individual improvement we had clearly wasn't enough for the team to win games. Despite the fact that Bell improved, the team still has to consider the possibility that we need a better LT in the off-season. Should we run right out and replace Bell on the first day of FA? No. But should we pass on the opportunity to upgrade if it should present itself? Absolutely not.

[Lexwhat]

My own opinion aside, Chan Gailey has said that we don't have the Offensive Tackles we need to be able to establish a power running game.

I don't have a link. I heard this twice while I was watching games on TV. The commentators mentioned that Gailey said that to them when they had a discussion.

Anyways, my opinion is that Bell is average. The entire line played like absolute trash when Trent Edwards was playing. So what does that mean? I think Fitzpatrick makes up for some of the deficiencies of our O-Line, making them appear better than they really are.

I will acknowledge that the O-Line has indeed improved since the beginning of the season, but not to the point where we shouldn't upgrade both Tackle positions.

[Captain Obvious]

You wanted Anthony Davis in the 1st round.


http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?id=5608&sport=NFL

Are you sure Op wanted Anthony Davis? I remember around draft time Op was noncommittal never fully offering up a name that he wanted the Bills to draft and 6 months later he still won't come up with a name that he would have liked the Bills to have taken instead of Spiller

[Lexwhat]

And just to be clear, the thread starter asked if we found our "franchise" Left Tackle.

I would say no, not yet.

[Lexwhat]

Now onto sacks allowed. Scouts INC says that Bell has allowed just 1.25 sacks in nine games. That is big league. How big league?

I'm just curious -- mind sharing a link?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Franchise LT? That's insane.

I think Bell is looking like a serviceable LT, and we can get by with him for a year or two while we address other glaring holes on this team. But he is by no means a franchise LT.
QUICK! Without looking it up, tell me who Indy's LT is.

Don't know? How about New Orleans'? Green Bay's?

The point is, all you need is a steady "serviceable" LT if you have good QB play, who gets rid of the ball decisively and quickly.

Bell is doing fine. I'd be happy to sign him to an extension.

[OpIv37]

Are you sure Op wanted Anthony Davis? I remember around draft time Op was noncommittal never fully offering up a name that he wanted the Bills to draft and 6 months later he still won't come up with a name that he would have liked the Bills to have taken instead of Spiller

I don't have a name because I don't know enough about the guys who were available in the draft. But again, it's not about me.

What I do know is that we already HAD two solid running backs and we had (and still have) glaring holes at DE, DT, LB, TE, and lesser holes at QB, T, and WR.

So, if Spiller was to be the pick, then we should have traded Lynch for another pick ON DRAFT DAY so we had another player who could potentially help us THIS year.

Instead, we picked Spiller, who has done nothing, and waited until the season started before trading Lynch, essentially postponing any benefit from the trade for at least a year.

How anyone can continue to defend this is beyond me.

[OpIv37]

QUICK! Without looking it up, tell me who Indy's LT is.

Don't know? How about New Orleans'? Green Bay's?

The point is, all you need is a steady "serviceable" LT if you have good QB play, who gets rid of the ball decisively and quickly.

Bell is doing fine. I'd be happy to sign him to an extension.

So which is it? Did Bell actually improve, or does he just look better because he's getting better QB play?

You better make up your mind before you support that Bell extension.

[justasportsfan]

Are you sure Op wanted Anthony Davis? I remember around draft time Op was noncommittal never fully offering up a name that he wanted the Bills to draft and 6 months later he still won't come up with a name that he would have liked the Bills to have taken instead of Spiller



I've been bitching about the possibility of taking Spiller all day. It's a terrible choice. San Diego traded up for an RB- don't think they would have traded up for Spiller too? We could have taken Davis.


.


Still no names that would have been a better pick. You know the bad picks really well but can't say who we should have picked. Typical... .







Davis for one.



http://billszone.com/fanzone/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3216907

[PromoTheRobot]

http://billszone.com/fanzone/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3216907
The internet is a cruel bitch. :lol:

PTR

[Lexwhat]

QUICK! Without looking it up, tell me who Indy's LT is.

Don't know? How about New Orleans'? Green Bay's?

The point is, all you need is a steady "serviceable" LT if you have good QB play, who gets rid of the ball decisively and quickly.

Bell is doing fine. I'd be happy to sign him to an extension.

Saints: Jerome Bushrod (a young guy who has gotten better)
Packers: Chad Clifton.
Colts: Don't know.
(Steelers: Some loser we used to have -- Jonathan Scott)

Anyways, what's the point of this comparison? When we get a potential hall-of-fame QB here (Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben may one day make it; Manning definitely will), then I will be content with Demetrius Bell as our LT.

[justasportsfan]

The internet is a cruel bitch. :lol:

PTR


If you look at that thread, according to OP we shouldn't have drafted Spiller because we already had Lynch and Jackson. While not probowlers , they were SOLID . So if Bell continues to play the way he's playing throughout the season, we don't need to draft a RT because Bell would be SOLID.

[Sell Local Ralph]

It defies logic that he would regress? Then explain Whitner, Poz, Evans, Hardy, McCargo, Losman, McKelvin and probably a dozen other players over the last decade. All have all the physical tools and all regressed.

The Bills lose because as individuals, everyone defends every mediocre player on this team. Well, when you put a bunch of mediocrity together, you get mediocre results. If Buddy Nix keeps a player like Bell because he had 9 decent games, then he's doing EXACTLY what the previous administration did and we should expect the EXACT same results.

And once again, you're trying to make this about me because you can't defend your opinion. Some opinions are more valid than others because some opinions have more logic behind them. Stop trying to summarily dismiss my opinions simply because they're not all sunshine and roses like you'd like them to be.

I can defend it just fine and have. I simply refuse to allow you to turn a positive into a negative. There is simply nothing negative about Bell's progress and potential. We going to find out a lot more about Bell in the remaining games and as a fan not a critic I think that is something to look forward to with hope and optimism. This is a thread about hope, something you fight as hard as Smokey fights forest fires.

Bell's situation is different than the players you list in that he came to the Bills with little experience and he was expected to take time to develop. He was an unpolished 7th round project not an overhyped 1st or 2nd round pick. I would make the case that even with those high round picks they did not regress as much as they reached a much lower plateau than their draft status would bring people to expect. But we're talking about Bell and why he stands which is right now solid and may end up being better than that. Bell can't control the talent level of the rest of the squad and a LT can't single handedly win games. But he's already exceeded expectations, LT was considered by almost everyone on this board to be one of the top 2 glaring weaknesses on the team and that's a fact. That's no longer the case and this is a postive no matter how desperately you try to spin it otherwise. I want to see more progress but I see no reason not to be excited about Bell.

[Philagape]

The team is 1-8 for several reasons:
1) Starting Trent Edwards at QB for two games
2) Learning a new 3-4 defense that had to be modified later
3) Mental errors at critical times.


Also, because their run defense (except against teams like Chicago and Detroit that didn't have good running games) and pass rush have been barely existent.
Some may say that's because they're "learning" a new defense, but it's just as reasonable to believe it's because they're just not good enough.
I don't want to be just improving, and I don't care how good they are compared to their teammates, or numbers on some list. I want them helping the Bills win games against good teams.

Now, as far as Bell, let's think of it this way:
Fitzpatrick has played very well at times and has been a bright spot relative to his team. But it's nearly unanimous that Fitz isn't The Answer at QB, and that the Bills should draft a potential franchise QB if they can.
So, has Bell been a better LT than Fitz has a QB? I don't think so. He's certainly not proven to be The Answer at LT and is not beyond the need for upgrading.

[mayotm]

OP, by your logic, Joe Thomas and Jake Long aren't really that good because it's not translating to the Browns and Dolphins winning many games. Yet, they are widely considered "franchsie" LT's.

[Ebenezer]

My own opinion aside, Chan Gailey has said that we don't have the Offensive Tackles we need to be able to establish a power running game.

I don't have a link. I heard this twice while I was watching games on TV. The commentators mentioned that Gailey said that to them when they had a discussion.

Anyways, my opinion is that Bell is average. The entire line played like absolute trash when Trent Edwards was playing. So what does that mean? I think Fitzpatrick makes up for some of the deficiencies of our O-Line, making them appear better than they really are.

I will acknowledge that the O-Line has indeed improved since the beginning of the season, but not to the point where we shouldn't upgrade both Tackle positions.

As I asked way back in like the 3rd post of this thread...which side of the OL does the running game mostly go? I know earlier in the season it was the right side.

[OpIv37]

I can defend it just fine and have. I simply refuse to allow you to turn a positive into a negative. There is simply nothing negative about Bell's progress and potential. We going to find out a lot more about Bell in the remaining games and as a fan not a critic I think that is something to look forward to with hope and optimism. This is a thread about hope, something you fight as hard as Smokey fights forest fires.

Bell's situation is different than the players you list in that he came to the Bills with little experience and he was expected to take time to develop. He was an unpolished 7th round project not an overhyped 1st or 2nd round pick. I would make the case that even with those high round picks they did not regress as much as they reached a much lower plateau than their draft status would bring people to expect. But we're talking about Bell and why he stands which is right now solid and may end up being better than that. Bell can't control the talent level of the rest of the squad and a LT can't single handedly win games. But he's already exceeded expectations, LT was considered by almost everyone on this board to be one of the top 2 glaring weaknesses on the team and that's a fact. That's no longer the case and this is a postive no matter how desperately you try to spin it otherwise. I want to see more progress but I see no reason not to be excited about Bell.

"Potential" is just a fancy term for "hasn't done **** yet." If he's already exceeded your expectations, then your expectations are far too low. All he's done is had 9 or so decent games. LT is no longer a "glaring weakness"- it's just another position that we should upgrade but could probably get by with what we have if no upgrade is available. Wow, I'm impressed.

And btw, if you recall, my initial complaint was not about Bell's improvement. It was about calling him a "franchise LT," which is absurd at this point.

[OpIv37]

OP, by your logic, Joe Thomas and Jake Long aren't really that good because it's not translating to the Browns and Dolphins winning many games. Yet, they are widely considered "franchsie" LT's.

huh?

That's not what I said at all.

I said improvement doesn't matter if you don't have enough improvement to win games. And if Joe Thomas and Jake Long are good but they are on teams that aren't winning, then those teams are still not good enough. Improving doesn't matter if it doesn't lead to wins and having good players doesn't matter if the team as a whole isn't good enough to win games.

[DesertFox24]

I half agree. The reality is that this team has a lot of holes, and they have to be addressed. Drafting for BPA seems to result in getting better players than drafting for need, but if we don't fill holes in the draft, then we have to fill them via FA, and this team simply refuses to do that for some strange reason.

We're stuck in a situation where we have to choose between drafting a lesser player at a position of need, or doing nothing to address a glaring hole, and it's extremely frustrating.

Well we have 8 picks this year and 8 picks next year and we have 8 picks from 10 draft on the team so that is 26 players.

My point is talent always wins.

Yes we have a ton of holes but you can not over draft like Nix said because then you are left with two players that can not play.

The one thing about Nix's class last year is every one we drafted was productive for more than one year in college and for the most part he took team captains which is great, because they usually are hard working vocal leaders and we need that.

[Michael82]

I'm comfortable with Demetrius Bell. He's been one of our bright spots on the line and has held his own against some good LBs and DEs. He's a solid LT. Now we just have to find a good RT.

[Mr. Miyagi]

So which is it? Did Bell actually improve, or does he just look better because he's getting better QB play?

You better make up your mind before you support that Bell extension.
Both. Bell improved to become a serviceable LT, and a decisive QB makes him extendable.

Should I explain some more?

[OpIv37]

Both. Bell improved to become a serviceable LT, and a decisive QB makes him extendable.

Should I explain some more?

Seems to me like you're making an assumption in a double variable situation.

You said yourself that LT's look better when they get better QB play.

Well, since we know we got better QB play, there is no way to accurately judge whether Bell actually got better or whether he just looks better because Fitzy is a better QB than Edwards.

If you want to give Bell an extension with no way to definitively know if he actually improved, then you damn well better explain some more.

[Mr. Pink]

I have to say that Bell has far surpassed expectations this year. He's likely been the most consistent lineman this season thus far on the Bills.

Is he the long term answer? Unsure. But for now he's more than holding his own at the LT spot.

At worst he may end up solidifying the RT spot for years if we bring in a premier LT.

[X-Era]

And just to be clear, the thread starter asked if we found our "franchise" Left Tackle.

I would say no, not yet.Very well put.

If the question were: Have the Bills found their solid starter at LT? I think that answer would be yes.

I guess it's all what you consider franchise. To me that means top 5 in the league. That would be great to have and Bell may develop into that. But right now I consider the spot filled with a solid starter.

To me, the RT spot is more of a need.

[Sell Local Ralph]

"Potential" is just a fancy term for "hasn't done **** yet." If he's already exceeded your expectations, then your expectations are far too low. All he's done is had 9 or so decent games. LT is no longer a "glaring weakness"- it's just another position that we should upgrade but could probably get by with what we have if no upgrade is available. Wow, I'm impressed.

And btw, if you recall, my initial complaint was not about Bell's improvement. It was about calling him a "franchise LT," which is absurd at this point.

If you get a starter from a 7th round pick you've exceeded expectations. Statistically the odds of getting a starter that late are maybe 1 in 20. And Bell has already done something, he's had a solid season. Nobody called him a franchise LT- yet. It was a question not a statement. You seem to think he's as likely to get worse as better. I disagree.

[TigerJ]

It is interesting to note that almost all the mock drafts out there have Buffalo taking Andrew Luck in the first round. Then, of the multi-round mock drafts out there, almost all have Buffalo taking a left tackle prospect, following the wisdom of "if a (relatively) new coach drafts a franchise QB in round one, he will draft a left tackle to protect him in round 2." I think that some people have not been paying attention. I agree Bell is not perfect. He needs to get stronger and tougher in his run blocking, but he is not all that far from being an elite pass blocker. It's not out of the realm of possibility for Buffalo to draft an offensive tackle in round two, but if they do, it will be for the right side. For myself, I think they may be more inclined to move to the defensive side of the line, say for an outside linebacker.

[The Warrior]

That's not exactly what I said.

My point is that posters on this board stand up for individuals- Whitner, McKelvin, Evans, Parrish, Jackson, Spiller, Hangartner, Wood, Bell, Levitre, Fitzpatrick, Poz, and on occasion even Kelsay.

Well, as Philagape already said, if none of these guys suck, why are we 1-8? Sure, individuals can play well even if the team as a whole is struggling, but if that many individuals were really playing well, there is no way the team would be 1-8.

We collectively tend to overrate the talent on this team, and I think the Bills' FO does the same thing (and I'm sure the Sabres' FO does it, but that's a different discussion). And that's a major reason why this team has been so bad.

Look at past years heck the last 10. It takes almost 3 years to fully rebuild my friend. Gailey has the players playing well and Buffalo Bill's need him. most knew this is not going to be a playoff year. Member that is will take time to be built up to make a playoff run in order to make things good again. Your expecting playoff's and result's right now but it will take time and right piece's to bring it togther for the team. Things were bad also a mess and Gailey and Nix are trying to fix the mess and solve thing's for long term.

[ServoBillieves]

I have been on Bell's bad side, but as of this year he's improved. Franchise no, but serviceable yes. I still see him behind the line of scrimmage on run plays, and Fitzy does get the ball out much quicker. So he does need to finish out the season to show me something.

As for whoever said Wood is disappointing this year? Coulda swore he did well in shutting down Ndamakung, and he's improved steadily, if not vastly from the beginning of the year.

This team is 4 tough losses from being 5-4 (Stupid plays vs. Miami, OT in Baltimore, KC, and the fans cheering for Chicago @ "home"), and I know that ifs/ands/buts don't work in todays NFL (nor the real world) but this team has those holes that need filled, and when they are/we get a new D-Coordinator, this team should surprise and work nicely.

I say surprise because nothing is ever expected from the Buffalo Bills organization.

[YardRat]

Bell's play has improved this season, and it's nice to see the progress he's made.

Is he a 'franchise' LT? I would say not yet, but if his curve upward continues on the current path he has the potential to become one.

That being said, if we have the opportunity to draft a stud LT or acquire one through trade/FA, IMO we hop on it and move Bell to the right side (depending on the cost of such a move obviously). Can't pass up a chance to improve two positions on the o-line with one move.

Why do we keep losing? Because we have plenty of guys that have the ability to make plays, and they do at times, but none (or very, very few at least) that can consistently display that ability over the course of a season, a few games, or even one entire game. Yes, even All-Pros make mistakes, but our margin of error is so small we have very little chance of overcoming the miscues when they start to compound.

[OpIv37]

Look at past years heck the last 10. It takes almost 3 years to fully rebuild my friend. Gailey has the players playing well and Buffalo Bill's need him. most knew this is not going to be a playoff year. Member that is will take time to be built up to make a playoff run in order to make things good again. Your expecting playoff's and result's right now but it will take time and right piece's to bring it togther for the team. Things were bad also a mess and Gailey and Nix are trying to fix the mess and solve thing's for long term.

If you think I'm expecting playoffs, you obviously haven't read many of my posts.

And you've completely missed the point. My point was that all those players I listed have been complimented on this board for their performance this year, but if all those players were really playing well, we'd have a much better record. So, in general, people on this board are overrating the performance of many of the players on this team.

It has nothing to do with rebuilding.

[northernbillfan]

It doesn't matter how well Bell plays. He was not a college stud with a big name and a high draft number. Therefore, to some on here, he will never really be a good player.Ain't that the truth.

[better days]

If you think I'm expecting playoffs, you obviously haven't read many of my posts.

And you've completely missed the point. My point was that all those players I listed have been complimented on this board for their performance this year, but if all those players were really playing well, we'd have a much better record. So, in general, people on this board are overrating the performance of many of the players on this team.

It has nothing to do with rebuilding.

Well, I think those players are playing well myself & if they weren't, the Bills would be getting blown out of games rather than losing close games they could have won with a break or two.

[YardRat]

Ouch.

[YardRat]

Definitely not.

[X-Era]

One bad play on Michael Johnson? That's the end of the story?

[YardRat]

One bad play on Michael Johnson? That's the end of the story?

Not the end of the story, but that was a terrible half for Bell.

[mysticsoto]

What were your expectations of Wood??

He has been playing a lot better as the season progresses, too. I wouldn't call him a disappointment at all. In fact he's doing better than I thought he might coming back on a titanium stick. One of the interesting things that I was told about the surgery he had, by a physician, was that the length of the leg is subject to change. That is kind of a big adjustment.

Coming back from a serious injury or not, I'm only commenting on his play on the field. After Green, he's consistently been the 2nd worse on the Oline. When Cordaro took over at RT, he became the worst lineman. Cordaro's backup might take that title again, but he's still down there and not playing like last year. My only hope is that he comes back stronger next year...

[mysticsoto]

Not the end of the story, but that was a terrible half for Bell.

The entire OL looked bad...

[X-Era]

Since the game sucks, take a closer look at Bell... He's doing well so far in the 2nd half.

[YardRat]

The entire OL looked bad...

Granted...

[X-Era]

Bell has been great in the 2nd half.

[YardRat]

It did appear that he pulled his head out of his ass.