Andrew Luck or Cam Newton?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Who would do better in Chan Gailey's system?

[Figster]

Cameron Newton

[T-Long]

If we are talking straight system, then it's Newton IMO. But Luck is the better prospect. If I had the choice between the two, it would be Luck.

[DraftBoy]

Seriously? Cam Newton is probably the rawest passer in this class right now, no I take that back he's more polished than Jerrod Johnson.

Its Luck all day and its not even a question to consider.

[ChristopherWalken]

I think that with all of the fuss with the NCAA and the last year of CBA, Newton will more than likely declare himself draft eligible and not return to Auburn.

IMO, Newton seems to have the complete package and would be best suited for Gailey's offense. Fitz would be the perfect mentor.

[Nighthawk]

Luck could play in any system...he's that good.

[ChristopherWalken]

First Jake Locker was the top dog, then Ryan Mallet, then Andrew Luck and now Cam Newton.

That sentence alone makes me think that at some point Buffalo will gamble a pick for QB this draft. And that sentence doesn't even include the names Ponder or Kaepernick. All of these guys cannot possibly be pulled in the first round.

Its a good position for Buffalo to be in. And with as well as Fitz has been playing, there is no rush to get any of these guys in the game as soon as opening kickoff 2011.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Luck. Not even close.:rockout:

[DraftBoy]

First Jake Locker was the top dog, then Ryan Mallet, then Andrew Luck and now Cam Newton.

That sentence alone makes me think that at some point Buffalo will gamble a pick for QB this draft. And that sentence doesn't even include the names Ponder or Kaepernick. All of these guys cannot possibly be pulled in the first round.

Its a good position for Buffalo to be in. And with as well as Fitz has been playing, there is no rush to get any of these guys in the game as soon as opening kickoff 2011.

Andrew Luck has always been the top guy as far as most people are concerned.

[Mad Max]

Luck. No contest.

- True pocket QB
- Much more polished
- Model citizen (did not steal someones laptop[allegedly], amongst other dubious activities)
- has pedigree...not family (allegedly) that tries to sell his services to the highest bidder.
- Run first QBs do not work in the NFL. If the best running QB in NFL history (Vick) didn't actually become a very good QB until he stopped running every time and actually learned how to play from the pocket....how is Newton going to do.

[Bill Cody]

I don't want a QB who's convinced the solution to 3rd and 8 is to tuck and run. I watched Newton last weekend against Ga and he was impressive but running QB's don't win they get hurt.

[Nighthawk]

Andrew Luck has always been the top guy as far as most people are concerned.

Yep...it's not even a question.

[jamze132]

System or no system, you take Luck.

And even if the two were equals, I would still take Luck since I feel that trouble is always going to follow Newton around. From the allegations about his father, Cam was probably raised as a hoodlum.

[psubills62]

Sorry Miyagi, but this sounds like a question I'd see on BBMB.

[HAMMER]

There is now way you can make Cam Newton a top 5 pick. Too much at risk for someone without credibility. When you pick that high and commit a huge chunk of cash you need to look at the whole person, on and off the field.

[Philagape]

I thought Chan Gailey's "system" is to tailor an offense to players' strengths. He's not a "system" coach, he's a players' coach. Therefore take the better player, which you should do anyway because you don't know if he'll have the same coach his whole career. Very likely he won't.

[ChristopherWalken]

I thought Chan Gailey's "system" is to tailor an offense to players' strengths. He's not a "system" coach, he's a players' coach. Therefore take the better player, which you should do anyway because you don't know if he'll have the same coach his whole career. Very likely he won't.


Sure. But let's not forget the other 10 guys already installed on that offense. Ultimately, you have to consider how well a player fits in with the other pieces of the puzzle.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Frankly if we had the top pick, Luck would be it.

However if we manage to win more games this season and slip to a top 5 pick, I'd probably want to take another position and hopefully Newton will drop to us in the 2nd.

Where is Newton projected anyway?

[HAMMER]

Frankly if we had the top pick, Luck would be it.

However if we manage to win more games this season and slip to a top 5 pick, I'd probably want to take another position and hopefully Newton will drop to us in the 2nd.

Where is Newton projected anyway?

So you are OK with our franchise being led by an immoral scumbag? I'm not.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't think Newton will be much of an NFL QB period, so the answer is obvious..Luck.

[Italian Stallion]

So you are OK with our franchise being led by an immoral scumbag? I'm not.

Why not..the Steelers are. Their fans don't seem to mind, because they win.

I'm sick of losing. End of story.

[Mr. Pink]

So you are OK with our franchise being led by an immoral scumbag? I'm not.


The only way you can say no to a guy if you think he's got what it takes is if you think his off field activities could lead to a lengthy suspension in the future.

With Newton what he's done so far is meaningless in NFL terms, not that I think Newton will ever do anything as a pro.

[Ickybaluky]

I think Luck is the #1 pick if he comes out this year, no matter who is making the pick. He is the clear choice, IMO.

However, if a new CBA is agreed to and a rookie wage structure is set I don't know if either Luck or Newton comes out. I think Luck returns if there is a new rookie wage structure, and I think Newton does as well unless he is ruled ineligible (have to wait and see what happens with his current controversy).

Experience is a big factor for QB coming out in the draft. The track record for guys leaving early is not great.

[X-Era]

Seriously? Cam Newton is probably the rawest passer in this class right now, no I take that back he's more polished than Jerrod Johnson.

Its Luck all day and its not even a question to consider.Not even in the same league at this point.

[Saratoga Slim]

I think Luck is the #1 pick if he comes out this year, no matter who is making the pick. He is the clear choice, IMO.

However, if a new CBA is agreed to and a rookie wage structure is set I don't know if either Luck or Newton comes out. I think Luck returns if there is a new rookie wage structure, and I think Newton does as well unless he is ruled ineligible (have to wait and see what happens with his current controversy).

Experience is a big factor for QB coming out in the draft. The track record for guys leaving early is not great.

Why would a rookie wage scale deter Luck from coming out this year? He's got a lock on the #1 now. He can't improve that by staying in another year, and risks either a) having a less impressive junior campaign and falling a few slots, or b) the possiblity that the 2012 team with the first pick doesn't need a QB. Moreover, if there's a rookie wage scale for 2011, there will be for 2012.

If I'm missing something, lemme know. But thus far, if Luck stays in school for another year, I think it's because he simply wants to stay in school.

[Philagape]

I think Luck is the #1 pick if he comes out this year, no matter who is making the pick. He is the clear choice, IMO.

However, if a new CBA is agreed to and a rookie wage structure is set I don't know if either Luck or Newton comes out. I think Luck returns if there is a new rookie wage structure, and I think Newton does as well unless he is ruled ineligible (have to wait and see what happens with his current controversy).

Experience is a big factor for QB coming out in the draft. The track record for guys leaving early is not great.

If there's a rookie wage structure, it'll affect him no matter when he comes out.

[Joe Fo Sho]

So you are OK with our franchise being led by an immoral scumbag? I'm not.

If he wins, I'll root for anybody. Check out the Vick threads for more of my opinions on this topic.

PS - I don't want Cam Newton over Andrew Luck.

[HAMMER]

All of you willing to look past Newtons obvious character flaws will be singing a different tune when he is suspended for something down the road.

[Figster]

Andrew Luck may be the better QB, but I'm not going to vote for someone who doesn't want to play here in Buffalo.

To this day I don't care much for Eli Manning because of the stunt he pulled and a player should have a little more respect for the National Football League in general in my opinion.

[DraftBoy]

All of you willing to look past Newtons obvious character flaws will be singing a different tune when he is suspended for something down the road.

What about you (plural) who are willing to condemn and damn him based on no evidence?

That logic has two extreme ends to it.

Im not saying he did or didn't, Im just saying let the facts play out first.

[bflojohn]

In the offseason, everyone will be seduced by Cam Newton's prolific athletic prowess and that will skew the argument somewhat! I happen to believe that he is a bit more polished than Michael Vick was coming out. He would be a LB playing QB, and where have we heard that before?

[YardRat]

Luck. I'm leery of Newton, for several reasons.

[X-Era]

If there's a rookie wage structure, it'll affect him no matter when he comes out.Thank you.

The current CBA is done.

That means any of the current type of deals are done. That means a rookie scale, if agreed upon, applies to THIS YEARS class and every class after that. The CBA has no bearing on whether to come out this year or next year.

[X-Era]

Andrew Luck may be the better QB, but I'm not going to vote for someone who doesn't want to play here in Buffalo.

To this day I don't care much for Eli Manning because of the stunt he pulled and a player should have a little more respect for the National Football League in general in my opinion.He has stated he doesn't want to play in Buffalo?

Link?

[X-Era]

What about you (plural) who are willing to condemn and damn him based on no evidence?

That logic has two extreme ends to it.

Im not saying he did or didn't, Im just saying let the facts play out first.Agreed.

Just like I won't alter my rank on Mallett based on rumors, I also won't do it for Newton.

[HAMMER]

What about you (plural) who are willing to condemn and damn him based on no evidence?

That logic has two extreme ends to it.

Im not saying he did or didn't, Im just saying let the facts play out first.

Let's see, cheated multiple times in classes, stole laptop and threw it out the window when cops showed up to question him, hmmmmm. And how about his upstanding preacher father? I don't want either of these scum setting foot in Buffalo and representing the franchise I have been proud to root for for the last 30 years.

[DraftBoy]

Let's see, cheated multiple times in classes, stole laptop and threw it out the window when cops showed up to question him, hmmmmm. And how about his upstanding preacher father? I don't want either of these scum setting foot in Buffalo and representing the franchise I have been proud to root for for the last 30 years.

Ill address these one at a time;

1. Cheated at Florida-Unproven accusation
2. Not true actually, he never stole anything. His laptop was ruined when a sprinkler went off in his dorm room. He told a teammate about it and his team said he knew a guy who had one for sale. He bought the laptop not knowing it was stolen. That is why the charges were dropped without any prosecution.
3. Who gives a rats ass about his father? Plenty of people have piss poor fathers and turn out just fine. His father may be an ass, or may be getting a bad wrap, who knows and who really cares?

Until some kind of evidence to support any allegation that has been made about this kid, you're damning him over nothing.

[Figster]

He has stated he doesn't want to play in Buffalo?

Link?


My apology for stating/posting that improperly because its second hand info, but info I had no reason to suspect another poster would lie about ,the mention was on a talk show that I thought I posted about earlier here on the zone.

It was more in the lines of he doesn't want to go to an organization that continues to lose year after year. Only a couple or three teams fit that description and Buffalo's one of them.

I'll try to dig more up on it though and see If I can find a link and my previous post which named the sports show.

[X-Era]

My apology for stating/posting that improperly because its second hand info, but info I had no reason to suspect another poster would lie about ,the mention was on a talk show that I thought I posted about earlier here on the zone.

It was more in the lines of he doesn't want to go to an organization that continues to lose year after year. Only a couple or three teams fit that description and Buffalo's one of them.

I'll try to dig more up on it though and see If I can find a link and my previous post which named the sports show.How many teams pick 1st overall that don't lose year after year? He's likely to be the top pick.

I don't buy that he would go back to school to try to get drafted by a good team... He's probably going to be drafted top 3.

[Figster]

How many teams pick 1st overall that don't lose year after year? He's likely to be the top pick.

I don't buy that he would go back to school to try to get drafted by a good team... He's probably going to be drafted top 3.

It was the Colin Cowherd show,

Luck could be thinking along the lines of after the 2011 draft If he stays in school, the couple of teams he doesn't want to play for (the perennial losers) will have QB's. Mainly the Bills

Honestly, I questioned the train of thought myself, but If he said it he said it.

Again, I'm not 100% sure what his exact words were, but I'll try to find a transcript of the interview.


This was the posters post : After I read the section on Chris Brown's page saying that it could come down to a draft decision again like the Eli Manning drama, I hate Andrew Luck. I was listening to the Colin Cowherd show the other day and they were talking with Luck and he said that he would love to play in the NFL but he is not rushing it because he wants to go to a team that is on the right page rather than on a team that is on a continuing losing streak. That is us people, after hearing this stuff about the kid, I know one thing, he is not a competitor.

[better days]

How many teams pick 1st overall that don't lose year after year? He's likely to be the top pick.

I don't buy that he would go back to school to try to get drafted by a good team... He's probably going to be drafted top 3.

The only reasons to go back to school would be to further develop his skills as a QB, & to continue to enjoy the College experience.

Both good valid reasons IMO.

[SaviorEdwards]

Is this even serious? This is like picking between Matt Ryan and Jamarcus Russell.

[mikemac2001]

Cam Newtown Hands down


























Will suck....ill take some good old luck

[tampabay25690]

Luck.
But if we dont get LUCK I would consider Newton later

[Figster]

Luck.
But if we dont get LUCK I would consider Newton later


You know I like Luck's abilities, I really do, (voted Cam) but I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who considers Cam Newton a good alternative because I'm expecting the Bills to win a few more games this season.

Chan Gailey could really work some magic with Cameron Newton in my opinion.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I went with other because who I want the Bills to draft doesn't matter. What does matter is that they get the right guy for the team they are building. I'm already thinking Andrew Luck is a long shot right now. If he doesn't come out, we wont be in play for Newton either because of how the teams at the top of this draft view his abilities. Even if Luck does come out, our chances of landing him on draft day are extremely slim. You could even say if Luck does come out, we have a much better chance at drafting Newton than we do of drafting Luck. But if neither is available when we draft, it will have to be either a trade out for more picks, or the best player on the board at the time we do pick. We will not land the first pick in the draft. I'm pretty certain of that this late in the season and that is what makes me not want to get my hopes up on one player. It's blind faith that the guy you want is going to be there. Right now I'm not sure he will be. JMO

[Ingtar33]

cam newton will never be a pro qb of note.

[Ingtar33]

First Jake Locker was the top dog, then Ryan Mallet, then Andrew Luck and now Cam Newton.

That sentence alone makes me think that at some point Buffalo will gamble a pick for QB this draft. And that sentence doesn't even include the names Ponder or Kaepernick. All of these guys cannot possibly be pulled in the first round.

Its a good position for Buffalo to be in. And with as well as Fitz has been playing, there is no rush to get any of these guys in the game as soon as opening kickoff 2011.


Locker was never the top dog.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Locker was never the top dog. Go back to the beginning of pre-season on this board and you will find out that he was. Not many even knew who Andrew Luck was before the 2010 NCAA Football season began. Everyone knew who Locker and Mallet were though.

[SaviorEdwards]

Locker was never the top dog.

HUH?????????

[alohabillsfan]

Wait, all of these "experts" opinions, and I have yet to see the hand size of any of these prospects! LOL, remember that ***** last draft!

[alohabillsfan]

Andrew Luck has always been the top guy as far as most people are concerned.

From our scouting zone...

1. Pat Devlin-Delaware
2. Christian Ponder-FSU
3. Jake Locker-Washington
4. Jerrod Johnson-Texas A&M
5. Zac Eskridge-Midwestern State

[Canadian'eh!]

Agree with what most people are saying here. Newton is a gimmick QB that runs the same play over and over very well. But dude is NOT an NFL passer. He might be able to switch to RB or WR and be successful. But he's not going to be an NFL QB.


silly question

[Night Train]

When did Dr. Taylor kidnap Miyagi ?

[Ickybaluky]

The current CBA is done.

That means any of the current type of deals are done. That means a rookie scale, if agreed upon, applies to THIS YEARS class and every class after that. The CBA has no bearing on whether to come out this year or next year.

The current CBA expires after this season. There is no CBA after 2010.

After this year, one of 3 things will happen:

1) Lockout
2) Owners unilaterally imposing rules and forcing the union to either strike or de-certify and take it to the courts (which happened before and led to the CBA, the most likely scenario)
3) A new agreement

The issue is, nobody knows what the rules are going to be. If there is a lockout, underclassmen will be less likely to declare.

If there are rules imposed or agreed to (2 or 3), it will depend what they are. Sam Bradford got $50M guaranteed last year. If there is no rookie wage scale then Luck more likely to declare so he can cash in.

However, if a rookie wage scale is agreed to (like the NBA), it will shift money away from the rookies and more toward the veterans. In that case, a rookie is more likely to stay in school because he is risking far less. He can get an insurance policy to cover the event he is injured, and he is risking far less money. For QB, that extra year in school is very indicative of pro success. If you look at the history of underclassmen QB coming out of college, it is poor.

[Figster]

Agree with what most people are saying here. Newton is a gimmick QB that runs the same play over and over very well. But dude is NOT an NFL passer. He might be able to switch to RB or WR and be successful. But he's not going to be an NFL QB.


silly question

Cameron Newton's passing abilities are under estimated in my opinion, his footballs are thrown on a rope with good accuracy and velocity, Cams got a cannon of an arm. Newton also throws well on the run. The reason Mike Vike is almost unstoppable is because he is so elusive and Cam Newton brings the same attribute to the table.


Over 16% of the vote so far believe that Cam Newton will be a good QB in the NFL. While 16% is not a huge percentage the fact that there are already a fair amount of folks out there that believe he's as good as Luck speaks volumes in my opinion. Andrew Luck's a damn good QB.

The truth is Luck or Newton would put a big smile on my face come draft day.

[X-Era]

The only reasons to go back to school would be to further develop his skills as a QB, & to continue to enjoy the College experience.

Both good valid reasons IMO.True. But if your rated as the top pick in the draft, you run the risk of losing a lot of money by dropping your draft stock due to injury, a poor season, etc...

I think Harbaugh is a major part of this. He could easily take a bigger HC job and if he leaves, Luck could easily bolt just for that reason.

I think the only legit reason that Luck may have to stay is for academics.

[X-Era]

The current CBA expires after this season. There is no CBA after 2010.

After this year, one of 3 things will happen:

1) Lockout
2) Owners unilaterally imposing rules and forcing the union to either strike or de-certify and take it to the courts (which happened before and led to the CBA, the most likely scenario)
3) A new agreement

The issue is, nobody knows what the rules are going to be. If there is a lockout, underclassmen will be less likely to declare.

If there are rules imposed or agreed to (2 or 3), it will depend what they are. Sam Bradford got $50M guaranteed last year. If there is no rookie wage scale then Luck more likely to declare so he can cash in.

If there is no rookie wage scale, that will apply to all the years of the new CBA and has no impact on when you declare... the year after would be the same as next year.

2011 wage scale and cap/no cap= 2012 wage scale and cap/no cap


However, if a rookie wage scale is agreed to (like the NBA), it will shift money away from the rookies and more toward the veterans. In that case, a rookie is more likely to stay in school because he is risking far less. He can get an insurance policy to cover the event he is injured, and he is risking far less money. For QB, that extra year in school is very indicative of pro success. If you look at the history of underclassmen QB coming out of college, it is poor.

The player can get insurance regardless of when they declare. As to whether underclassmen do well or not, that doesn't matter to a prospect who's considered the top pick... can they go up from there? From the NFL's standpoint I would agree that you might want a guy who's more seasoned, but from the players standpoint it wouldn't make sense if your the top pick. You risk more going back if your the top pick. Locker may learn the hard way what you can lose by staying.

Again, if Luck stays, I don't think it will be for money, which team he would go to, trying to improve his draft stock, or anything else other than wanting to finish his degree.

The only other thing I could think of is going after a championship. Stanford can't do it this year but having his Owusu stay and starting the year after a big year where you finish say #6 could propel them into top 5 or top 3 and give them a real shot at playing for a championship next year. I could see him go after that.

[Figster]

True. But if your rated as the top pick in the draft, you run the risk of losing a lot of money by dropping your draft stock due to injury, a poor season, etc...

I think Harbaugh is a major part of this. He could easily take a bigger HC job and if he leaves, Luck could easily bolt just for that reason.

I think the only legit reason that Luck may have to stay is for academics.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on risking the big payday due to injury or poor season, its a big risk to take...

[DraftBoy]

From our scouting zone...

1. Pat Devlin-Delaware
2. Christian Ponder-FSU
3. Jake Locker-Washington
4. Jerrod Johnson-Texas A&M
5. Zac Eskridge-Midwestern State

You're missing the context of that quote.

[Mike13]

REALLY? This is a no brainer, Come on man.

[Figster]

Wow, what a run by Andrew Luck (58 yards) showing some good wheels of his own, and what a hit.

[Aliceinchainsbills15]

Who would do better in Chan Gailey's system?
I prefer Andrew Luck, not Cam Newton. I just do not like Qb's who just run as their first option and throw as their second.