Ouitgoing NY Gov says Bills could relocate

[northernbillfan]

Will there be a National Football League franchise in Orchard Park, New York in 2014? Will there be a National Hockey League franchise in Uniondale, New York in 2016? According to the soon to be former New York Governor David Paterson, there is a distinct possibility that the Buffalo Bills franchise may not be in Orchard Park very much longer and that the New York Islanders franchise will leave Uniondale in 2015.

The future of the Buffalo Bills in western New York is an issue that will be coming into sharper focus over the next 36 months. Ralph Wilson purchased an American Football league franchise in 1959 for $25,000 and has spent more than 50 years owning the team. Wilson is now 92 years old and apparently his family will sell the team after his death. The franchise has two years remaining on the lease in Orchard Park and would be free to go to another city once the obligation is fulfilled.

Full article (http://www.examiner.com/business-of-sports-in-national/governor-paterson-warns-the-buffalo-bills-and-new-york-islanders-could-relocate)

[OpIv37]

There is nothing really new in that article, although hopefully it will bring some attention to the issue and force someone at the state level to do something.

I've never been to the Islanders' arena, but I've heard it's an outdated ****hole.

[northernbillfan]

What he was saying is he hopes the incoming Gov puts both of these issues on his agenda.

[Dude]

lol

"Wang"

[X-Era]

Who would I put more faith in Patterson or Pegula... hmmm.

[BertSquirtgum]

patterson is just that, an outgoing governer. and a bad one at that. i would take anything he has to say with a grain of salt.

[DrGraves]

patternson is a scumbag. i hate that man. way to run NY even further into the ground

[more cowbell]

yawn

[Nighthawk]

IMO, the article actually gives me more hope that the state actually cares about the Bills staying in Buffalo and is acutely aware of the situation.

[TigerJ]

Since Ralph Wilson insists on retaining full ownership of the Bills until he dies, there is almost a guarantee of a certain amount of chaos concerning the franchise on his passing, unless he has secretly made some arrangements that he's not talking about. If Paterson's statement reflects interest by the state in getting involved, I'm glad, but I think the state has limited power. They can offer financial incentives in the form of tax breaks and maybe some actual cash to build a new stadium, but not much more. Whether or not that's enough to seal the deal is dubious at best, since potential landing sites for the franchise can also offer financial incentives.

The bottom line is that unless a new owner has some personal reason to keep the Bills in Western NY, he is going to go where he thinks he can make the most money. Given the price of tickets, luxury boxes etc. in Orchard Park compared with most other NFL venues, the odds aren't great that will be in the Buffalo area.

[Nighthawk]

Since Ralph Wilson insists on retaining full ownership of the Bills until he dies, there is almost a guarantee of a certain amount of chaos concerning the franchise on his passing, unless he has secretly made some arrangements that he's not talking about. If Paterson's statement reflects interest by the state in getting involved, I'm glad, but I think the state has limited power. They can offer financial incentives in the form of tax breaks and maybe some actual cash to build a new stadium, but not much more. Whether or not that's enough to seal the deal is dubious at best, since potential landing sites for the franchise can also offer financial incentives.

The bottom line is that unless a new owner has some personal reason to keep the Bills in Western NY, he is going to go where he thinks he can make the most money. Given the price of tickets, luxury boxes etc. in Orchard Park compared with most other NFL venues, the odds aren't great that will be in the Buffalo area.

I just don't agree. How do you know that this organization can't raise ticket prices to get closer to the league average and still not get fans to attend? What gives you or anybody else that impression? The Bills tickets are ridiculously low and I've been saying for years that the Bills should raise them to increase the cash flow. I just believe too many people in Buffalo are paranoid more then they need to be.

[TigerJ]

I think the Bills have some leeway on raising ticket prices. I don't think the area's economy or the market size can support the kind of pricing policies of say the Dallas Cowboys, Washington Redskins, or New York Giants, and a several other teams as well.

[BertSquirtgum]

The bottom line is that unless a new owner has some personal reason to keep the Bills in Western NY, he is going to go where he thinks he can make the most money. Given the price of tickets, luxury boxes etc. in Orchard Park compared with most other NFL venues, the odds aren't great that will be in the Buffalo area.

wrong. ralph makes plenty of money here and so will the new owner.

[BertSquirtgum]

I just don't agree. How do you know that this organization can't raise ticket prices to get closer to the league average and still not get fans to attend? What gives you or anybody else that impression? The Bills tickets are ridiculously low and I've been saying for years that the Bills should raise them to increase the cash flow. I just believe too many people in Buffalo are paranoid more then they need to be.

no way the bills should raise ticket prices. unless they want blackouts on a weekly basis.

[OpIv37]

wrong. ralph makes plenty of money here and so will the new owner.

when it comes to money and rich people, there's no such thing as "enough." The new owners could make $50 billion a year keeping the Bills in Buffalo, but if they could make $50.1 billion in Toronto or LA, they're gone.

Also, there are other issues. Two reasons the Bills are profitable:
1. Revenue sharing
2. Lack of stadium debt

If a new CBA lacks revenue sharing or isn't as generous with it, that cuts into Buffalo's profits. And if the new owners want/need a new stadium, they will not be able to pay for the team, pay for the stadium AND make a profit in Buffalo.

Believing that the team is safe just because Ralph makes money is short-sighted.

[OpIv37]

no way the bills should raise ticket prices. unless they want blackouts on a weekly basis.

Fix the team, then raise ticket prices. People will be willing to pay more to see a winner. No one will pay more to see the pile of crap we currently have on the field.

[Nighthawk]

Fix the team, then raise ticket prices. People will be willing to pay more to see a winner. No one will pay more to see the pile of crap we currently have on the field.

Obviously, they need to put a better product on the field, but this belief that they can't raise ticket prices is absurd.

[OpIv37]

absurd.

[Nighthawk]

absurd.

Damn...it's early...fixed....

[better days]

when it comes to money and rich people, there's no such thing as "enough." The new owners could make $50 billion a year keeping the Bills in Buffalo, but if they could make $50.1 billion in Toronto or LA, they're gone.

Also, there are other issues. Two reasons the Bills are profitable:
1. Revenue sharing
2. Lack of stadium debt

If a new CBA lacks revenue sharing or isn't as generous with it, that cuts into Buffalo's profits. And if the new owners want/need a new stadium, they will not be able to pay for the team, pay for the stadium AND make a profit in Buffalo.

Believing that the team is safe just because Ralph makes money is short-sighted.

While ticket prices are much higher in Dallas & NY for example, they have a high stadium debt which cuts into their profit. I think the way to keep the Bills profitable in Buffalo is to remodel the Ralph rather than build a New Stadium.

I also like the idea of that investment banker about Bills bonds to provide a low interest loan to the new owner.

[OpIv37]

The Bills bonds are a good idea- at the very least, it would buy time and take the immediate pressure off a new owner.

As far as rebuilding the Ralph, in the last 15 years or so, there have been at least 2 major renovations and numerous minor ones. With the exception of the sound system, I think the gameday experience from the seats is on par with the rest of the NFL, but in the tunnels, the amenities and overall appearance of the stadium are very dated. I'm not sure how much farther they can go with it.

Don't get me wrong- for me personally, it's about football and I'm fine with the Ralph as it is. Unfortunately, the NFL is becoming more about a whole gameday experience than about the game itself, and eventually the Bills will have to seriously upgrade or replace the stadium to keep current fans and attract new ones.

[better days]

The Bills bonds are a good idea- at the very least, it would buy time and take the immediate pressure off a new owner.

As far as rebuilding the Ralph, in the last 15 years or so, there have been at least 2 major renovations and numerous minor ones. With the exception of the sound system, I think the gameday experience from the seats is on par with the rest of the NFL, but in the tunnels, the amenities and overall appearance of the stadium are very dated. I'm not sure how much farther they can go with it.

Don't get me wrong- for me personally, it's about football and I'm fine with the Ralph as it is. Unfortunately, the NFL is becoming more about a whole gameday experience than about the game itself, and eventually the Bills will have to seriously upgrade or replace the stadium to keep current fans and attract new ones.

Well, as you said about the bonds, remodeling the Ralph will also buy time. I would think it would have to be much cheaper than to build from scratch & the State would probably pay for much of it.

[northernbillfan]

absurd.Absurd is the word, don't you know that absurd is the word. Everyone knows that absurd is the word.

[northernbillfan]

I also like the idea of that investment banker about Bills bonds to provide a low interest loan to the new owner.The one problem with bonds is the due date. They can be cashed in on certain dates and if everyone who holds one wants to redeem, it could have a reverse impact on the team's finances.

[better days]

The one problem with bonds is the due date. They can be cashed in on certain dates and if everyone who holds one wants to redeem, it could have a reverse impact on the team's finances.

Why would anybody that buys one want to redeem? The idea of the bonds is to keep the Bills in Buffalo. I think people that buy them will understand that & not try to redeem them.

[BertSquirtgum]

when it comes to money and rich people, there's no such thing as "enough." The new owners could make $50 billion a year keeping the Bills in Buffalo, but if they could make $50.1 billion in Toronto or LA, they're gone.


i don't believe that

[OpIv37]

i don't believe that
well you should.

There are a handful of people out there who are loyal enough to the team and the community that they would accept lower profits to keep the team in Buffalo, but none of those people actually have the money to buy the team (like Jim Kelly).

[TacklingDummy]

Yankees, Mets, Jets and Giants got new stadiums, why can't the Bills?

Oh crap, i forgot Buffalo is not near NYC.

[better days]

Yankees, Mets, Jets and Giants got new stadiums, why can't the Bills?

Oh crap, i forgot Buffalo is not near NYC.

Well add in the fact both the Giants & Jets put in money as well, & now are charging the ticket holders a LOT of money to recoup their investment.

Anyone that wants a new Stadium better be prepared to pay the HUGE increase in cost that comes with it.

[Nighthawk]

Well add in the fact both the Giants & Jets put in money as well, & now are charging the ticket holders a LOT of money to recoup their investment.

Anyone that wants a new Stadium better be prepared to pay the HUGE increase in cost that comes with it.

Anybody who wants to keep the Bills in Buffalo, better get used to the idea of building a new stadium. They are not staying without a new stadium...won't happen.

[BertSquirtgum]

it's possible

[IAG]

The Bills will mess it up somehow.

[better days]

Anybody who wants to keep the Bills in Buffalo, better get used to the idea of building a new stadium. They are not staying without a new stadium...won't happen.

Why not? Why can't the Ralph be renovated? How many more luxury boxes can the Bills fill? Why would a new owner want the added expense of a new stadium?

[HHURRICANE]

wrong. ralph makes plenty of money here and so will the new owner.

I take it that you didn't go to business school. Ralph has no debt because he bought the team for $25,000 over 50 years ago. He is guaranteed to make a profit.

The new owner will have to service almost 1 billion dollars in debt so the team has to generate alot more revenue which will not happen with the most outdated stadium in the league and a state that doesn't recognize Buffalo as being significant.

[YardRat]

I take it that you didn't go to business school. Ralph has no debt because he bought the team for $25,000 over 50 years ago. He is guaranteed to make a profit.

The new owner will have to service almost 1 billion dollars in debt so the team has to generate alot more revenue which will not happen with the most outdated stadium in the league and a state that doesn't recognize Buffalo as being significant.

Although I beat the 'new owner is going to have a mortgage' drum myself, it isn't necessarily true. Pegula could buy the team outright, and still have enough left over to rake in 40mil/year personal income on a modest investment with the balance of his wealth. There are other guys out there in similar situations.

[Mr. Pink]

Why is there this big need for a new stadium?

They can't sell the luxury boxes now. There's little corporate sponsorship mainly because there isn't much business in Buffalo.

The seats are fine and they're having issues selling out those late season.

The team has zero debt.

What is a new stadium going to do exactly?

I'll give you a hint. Raise taxes. Raise ticket prices. Even fewer sellouts. Even more luxury boxes unsold. Add debt to the team.

Why build a new stadium?

[Turf]

Its really time for Ralph to do the right thing and sell the team to Kelly and his group or look for viable alernatives to keep the team here and still get his money. What he's doing right now is just holding everyone hostage, very typical for someone of his age with his money.

[Nighthawk]

Why is there this big need for a new stadium?

They can't sell the luxury boxes now. There's little corporate sponsorship mainly because there isn't much business in Buffalo.

The seats are fine and they're having issues selling out those late season.

The team has zero debt.

What is a new stadium going to do exactly?

I'll give you a hint. Raise taxes. Raise ticket prices. Even fewer sellouts. Even more luxury boxes unsold. Add debt to the team.

Why build a new stadium?

Because the NFL is in a big push to improve facilities all across the league. They are not going to be OK with the Bills not improving their stadium situation. The Ralph is a dump and renovating it would be too expensive and not worth it. New stadiums are the way of the league...it is what it is, no matter our feelings on it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why is there this big need for a new stadium?

They can't sell the luxury boxes now. There's little corporate sponsorship mainly because there isn't much business in Buffalo.

The seats are fine and they're having issues selling out those late season.

The team has zero debt.

What is a new stadium going to do exactly?

I'll give you a hint. Raise taxes. Raise ticket prices. Even fewer sellouts. Even more luxury boxes unsold. Add debt to the team.

Why build a new stadium?
I agree about not needing a new stadium.

However as I have stated NUMEROUS times the company I work for is the largest technology distributor in the world. Our office is the US sales hub. There are vendors like Microsoft, Cisco, HP, IBM,.....the list goes on and on. These vendors all purchase boxes at the Sabres and the Bills games on the regular....

As a perspective as well for our Cincinnati trip friend seriously looked into getting a box for the game... Keep in mind this is a brand new stadium there. He had her down to 5000 dollars. That is nothing to the vendors I mentioned at our company. Keep in mind there are almost 3000 vendors we sell products of.

Keep this in mind when bringing up the point of there being no corporations here. While most don't have corporate offices in Buffalo, most have a strong presence in the area.

If the team is playing well and the demand is there the boxes will be sold.

I absolutely love the Ralph over a cookie cutter stadium like I was at in Cincy. People that whine about a sound system are nuts to me. I didn't notice anything that added to my game day experience in Cincy.