AP reports Whitner and Bills working on new deal

[patmoran2006]

What do you think?

(I'd like to publish some of your comments on BSD for a mailbag piece about Whitner)

[mrbojanglezs]

as long as its average to below average starting safety money

[Oaf]

Can't be creating holes in our team with the amount of ones we already got.

[Yasgur's Farm]

He's an above average safety and should be paid as such.

[Beebe's Kid]

I thing Whitner is under-appreciated. I think the fans that refuse to acknowledge his ability and value will be very disappointed when he doesn't get backup money. This guy is good and getting better, and I am glad that the front office isn't a bunch of over-reacting fans that will judge his worth on interceptions alone.

[G Wolly]

He finally got his first pick of the season. Better lock him up before someone else gets him.

[trapezeus]

he's an average player, like fitz, who is servicable for the time being, but in a year or two will need to be replaced entirely. He isn't the biggest weakness of the defense, but he doesn't relaly make it all that much better. I hardly notice when George Wilson goes in for his place. and when i do notice, Wilson usually has done something worth noting.

This isn't hate towards Whitner; it's the facts.

[Mr. Pink]

No point to resigning him.

[BertSquirtgum]

No point to resigning him.

why not? he is a real force on twitter.

[mrbojanglezs]

donte Tweetner

[T-Long]

Although not Pro Bowl caliber, I have no problem with locking him up long term at a reasonable price for a safety

[Oaf]

I feel he's kept a lot of the game-breaking runs to the ~first down runs. He's the best tacklers we've got back there right now IMO.

[tampabay25690]

Im glad they are locking him up long term.....

[Prov401]

The guy is under appreciated. People knock him because our front office picked him at 8, and he voices his opinions on twitter. I think Donte is proud to be a Buffalo Bill. I think he represents our team very well on and off the field. He is our defensive workhorse, and well liked by fellow players and coaches. He wears his emotions on his sleeves and wants to win for this city badly. I also believe this guy is caught up playing more than his safety position. With our LB's being very mediocre, Whitner has to step up and make the 6-8yd tackles that the LB's missed. I think once we get good DE's and 2nd level help, Whitner will shine brighter.

Happy with the possible contract extension.

[X-Era]

Can't be creating holes in our team with the amount of ones we already got.That's it exactly, IMO. Build not destroy. There's no guarantee that any rookie will be any better and Whitner isn't horrible, he's a solid backup who is getting better just too slowly.

Sign him long term and add a rookie at some point to push him.

[Mr. Pink]

why not? he is a real force on twitter.


Oh yeah, good point, George Wilson has nothing on him when it comes to Twitter!

RESIGN DONTE!!!!

[Mr. Pink]

That's it exactly, IMO. Build not destroy. There's no guarantee that any rookie will be any better and Whitner isn't horrible, he's a solid backup who is getting better just too slowly.

Sign him long term and add a rookie at some point to push him.


George Wilson is just as good, if not better, on the field.

[Bangarang]

It's such a shame that because this guy was picked 8th (not his fault) and isn't a Pro Bowler, that he can't be here for the long haul. The guy plays hard and appears to want to be a Bill.

I'm not saying to over pay him. But giving him a multi year deal at a fair price would be fine with me.

[Pinkerton Security]

I feel he's kept a lot of the game-breaking runs to the ~first down runs. He's the best tacklers we've got back there right now IMO.

He sometimes takes bad angles on runs but has a reputation around the league as being a very good tackler, so I'd rather take NFL player's word for it as opposed to a bunch of idiots on a forum.

[Mr. Pink]

He sometimes takes bad angles on runs but has a reputation around the league as being a very good tackler, so I'd rather take NFL player's word for it as opposed to a bunch of idiots on a forum.


Yes, because peers go out and rip players apart on normal occasions for sucking, right?

Just like the coach goes out and does it too?

Or the organization that picks these bums year after year?

But yeah, we're just idiots on a forum!

Idiots on a forum who could have done a better job assembling talent on this team than the people who are actually paid to do it.

[Luisito23]

Whitner sucks just like Bird, but it shouldn't surprise anyone that's he's not only gonna get resigned, but he's also gonna get overpaid...Just like Kelsay, just like Evans.

Kyle Williams should be the next one to get an extension, but watch these idiots let him go.

[Mr. Pink]

Whitner sucks just like Bird, but it shouldn't surprise anyone that's he's not only gonna get resigned, but he's also gonna get overpaid...Just like Kelsay, just like Evans.

Kyle Williams should be the next one to get an extension, but watch these idiots let him go.


Williams is the example of a guy who should be resigned.

Guys you resign should be guys who are an integral part of going forward as a franchise. Guys who can just as easily be replaced by someone else have no business being resigned.

[wmoz11]

We just changed schemes. The fewer holes we create, the better. There needs to be some cohesion if we play on improving.

[Philagape]

I feel he's kept a lot of the game-breaking runs to the ~first down runs. He's the best tacklers we've got back there right now IMO.

In other words, what any defender in the NFL should be able to do.

[SquishDaFish]

Good news. Just because the Bills picked him soo high doesnt mean hes not a good player. I think he is an above average safety who is a damn good tackler. Underrated by alot of wanna be coaches/talent evaluators on this site.

[DraftBoy]

We dont have a good history of locking guys up at "reasonable prices", so consider me hesitant to be excited.

[OpIv37]

We just changed schemes. The fewer holes we create, the better. There needs to be some cohesion if we play on improving.

backwards logic on this one. We have 4-3 players and we're running a 3-4 scheme.

You can't change the system without also changing the players.

Whitner is a mediocre holdout from the old regime. He's emblematic of this team's horrendous first round draft picks. He runs his mouth and gets in trouble off the field.

Let him go, but not until he teaches our other DB's his patented "back tackle."

[bf1]

He's part of the reason the team is 2-10. He's well below average.

[Mr. Pink]

Good news. Just because the Bills picked him soo high doesnt mean hes not a good player. I think he is an above average safety who is a damn good tackler. Underrated by alot of wanna be coaches/talent evaluators on this site.


Again, the wannabe coaches/talent evaluators who would have assembled a better team than the guys who are getting paid to do it.

[OpIv37]

I see the Whitner Anti-Defamation League is out in force tonight.

[mayotm]

Again, the wannabe coaches/talent evaluators who would have assembled a better team than the guys who are getting paid to do it.Keep telling yourself that sport.

[X-Era]

I see the Whitner Anti-Defamation League is out in force tonight.Personally, I have no issue with re-signing him. Do I think he's irreplaceable? Hell no. Do I think we can draft someone at some point to push him? Yes. But having a solid starter and guy who can be our starter until we get someone better is not a bad move. He's not the main issue on our defense IMO. Will we overpay? probably. But this team has underspent for some many years that frankly I don't give a **** if they waste some money. Let's call it the, "you made a ****ty team" surcharge.

[Mr. Pink]

Keep telling yourself that sport.


I can give you just 2 moves that would have made this team better that plenty of people were calling for at the time.

Ngata and Mangold.

People who think that the front office is smarter and moves like Whitner/McCargo just flat out prove they're not.

[SquishDaFish]

I can give you just 2 moves that would have made this team better that plenty of people were calling for at the time.

Ngata and Mangold.

People who think that the front office is smarter and moves like Whitner/McCargo just flat out prove they're not.

Listen man I agree with you on those 2 moves BUT the draft is a CRAPSHOOT where anyone can be a bust or boom. Noone really knows for sure how any rookie will work out.

[Mr. Pink]

Listen man I agree with you on those 2 moves BUT the draft is a CRAPSHOOT where anyone can be a bust or boom. Noone really knows for sure how any rookie will work out.


Orakpo over Maybin.

Another call many fans would have made. My own personal preference was Alex Mack over Maybin.

I can keep going, but I believe I've proven my point.

[YardRat]

I'd re-sign him, but hopefully we don't overpay. With the deal they threw at Kelsay though, my hopes are pretty unlikely. He's a decent starter, and with a better front seven would probably be better than average.

[Mr. Pink]

Personally, I have no issue with re-signing him. Do I think he's irreplaceable? Hell no. Do I think we can draft someone at some point to push him? Yes. But having a solid starter and guy who can be our starter until we get someone better is not a bad move. He's not the main issue on our defense IMO. Will we overpay? probably. But this team has underspent for some many years that frankly I don't give a **** if they waste some money. Let's call it the, "you made a ****ty team" surcharge.


Or they've overpaid on the wrong guys.

Dockery, Walker, Evans etc...

[dannyek71]

I am sure we will sign him for double what we are paying Kelsey

[Mr. Pink]

Welcome to the Buffalo Bills.

Land of rewarding mediocrity for a decade!

[Prov401]

Some of you people are hilarious. The same arguments are used over, and over, and over, and over. Whitner takes bad angles... Donte shut up exercising your freedom of speech in interviews and on twitter, it's my ignorant opinion that you sound dumb!...Hey hey,... remember back 4 years ago when Whitner got that penalty for tackling a player from behind 10 yards into the end zone,.. yea.. he sucks because of that and I'm going to forever use that moment against him... Oh hey hey,.. remember when that terrible human being Donte Whitner got in trouble for sticking up for a friend at a club and was arrested because of it??? What a scumbag. Me and my perfect self would never get into any type of trouble like that.

It's as if Whitner occupies the very last spot on the 53 man roster, and he is barley good enough to play football. It's seriously incredible. Anytime I watch a Bills game, the announcers always mention Whitner and his play. The coaches continously praise Whitner. His teammates continuously praise him. I get that he isn't Ed Reed, understandable. But for some of you to think we are better off without him? Stupid. At the very least, the guy is great depth.

Whitner is 4th in the NFL with tackles. 4th. Wait... HOLD ON! It's because he makes his tackles 10 yards down field right? lol. Or maybe it's because our LB's suck, and Whitner has to come up and play their position 10 times a game. Put Whitner on Baltimore, a team that gets pressure damn near every down, and he will flourish. Get him front 7 help, and he will get better.

He wants to be a Buffalo Bill. He's passionate and dedicated to the game. I say no to breaking the bank for him. However, I say it's a good move to resign him, and Chan and Buddy obviously think so too. But, hold on... You all know better than Buddy and Chan of course, how could I forget.

[YardRat]

Orakpo over Maybin.

Another call many fans would have made. My own personal preference was Alex Mack over Maybin.

I can keep going, but I believe I've proven my point.

I don't think there's any question, especially if you could review past draft day threads, that many posters on here were hoping for the players you mentioned instead of who we ended up with. But that's water under the bridge and a moot point relative to where we are now with Whitner specifically. We're not going to get Ngata, Orakpo, Mangold or Oher right now so it's really not an issue. Draft position becomes irrelevant after the first training camp and season.

Wilson is a nice fill-in for Byrd, probably better in all honesty, but I can't see him doing any better than Donte if George took over the spot full time. Whitner is definitely better than Bryan Scott, and Corto is a safety in name only. Unless you want to take a SS with a very high pick or know of somebody that's going to be a FA that is better we're in a pretty good position to keep Whitner right where he is and build around him.

[RockStar36]

Not sifting through all the comments so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but this was reported by WGR weeks ago.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't think there's any question, especially if you could review past draft day threads, that many posters on here were hoping for the players you mentioned instead of who we ended up with. But that's water under the bridge and a moot point relative to where we are now with Whitner specifically. We're not going to get Ngata, Orakpo, Mangold or Oher right now so it's really not an issue. Draft position becomes irrelevant after the first training camp and season.

Wilson is a nice fill-in for Byrd, probably better in all honesty, but I can't see him doing any better than Donte if George took over the spot full time. Whitner is definitely better than Bryan Scott, and Corto is a safety in name only. Unless you want to take a SS with a very high pick or know of somebody that's going to be a FA that is better we're in a pretty good position to keep Whitner right where he is and build around him.


From what we've seen out of George Wilson when he does get to play, he won't do any worse than Donte either.

[X-Era]

I don't think there's any question, especially if you could review past draft day threads, that many posters on here were hoping for the players you mentioned instead of who we ended up with. But that's water under the bridge and a moot point relative to where we are now with Whitner specifically. We're not going to get Ngata, Orakpo, Mangold or Oher right now so it's really not an issue. Draft position becomes irrelevant after the first training camp and season.

Wilson is a nice fill-in for Byrd, probably better in all honesty, but I can't see him doing any better than Donte if George took over the spot full time. Whitner is definitely better than Bryan Scott, and Corto is a safety in name only. Unless you want to take a SS with a very high pick or know of somebody that's going to be a FA that is better we're in a pretty good position to keep Whitner right where he is and build around him.That's exactly it. Why get worse when you can resign solid players and add. Whitner is not a star, but losing him opens up a new whole that we don't need. Add a draftee at some point who can truly compete with a real shot to beat him out. Anything else really isn't worth keeping, and certainly isn't worth letting him go for.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Look up my reaction under "Kelsay, Chris > Section: Extended"

I hate this move.

[YardRat]

From what we've seen out of George Wilson when he does get to play, he won't do any worse than Donte either.

Whitner >> Wilson re:run support.

[RockStar36]

I would like this move more than the Kelsay resigning, but I'm not overly thrilled. In the big picture though, there are lots of other spots on the team that need addressed and not bringing him back would just create another hole.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I can give you just 2 moves that would have made this team better that plenty of people were calling for at the time.

Ngata and Mangold.

People who think that the front office is smarter and moves like Whitner/McCargo just flat out prove they're not.

Would you have drafted Steve Johnson? Kyle Williams?

Signed Peters? Florence?

There are plenty of examples of this team being both ignorant and above average. It's hard to say that you or I would've assembled a better TEAM. There are definitely a few moves where I would've drafted better than the Bills. I was the biggest Orakpo fan during that draft, it seemed like the only logical choice. But I think I would assemble a team like the Redskins and sign everyone who I think would improve the team and end up ripping the Bills apart.

[wmoz11]

backwards logic on this one. We have 4-3 players and we're running a 3-4 scheme.

You can't change the system without also changing the players.

Whitner is a mediocre holdout from the old regime. He's emblematic of this team's horrendous first round draft picks. He runs his mouth and gets in trouble off the field.

Let him go, but not until he teaches our other DB's his patented "back tackle."

I was speaking more about terminology, since the change from 3-4 to 4-3 has minimal if any effect on safeties.

Not to mention that there's something to be said for safeties knowing where their partners will be and the fact that Whitner makes the defensive calls for the secondary.

[OpIv37]

Some of you people are hilarious. The same arguments are used over, and over, and over, and over. Whitner takes bad angles... Donte shut up exercising your freedom of speech in interviews and on twitter, it's my ignorant opinion that you sound dumb!...Hey hey,... remember back 4 years ago when Whitner got that penalty for tackling a player from behind 10 yards into the end zone,.. yea.. he sucks because of that and I'm going to forever use that moment against him... Oh hey hey,.. remember when that terrible human being Donte Whitner got in trouble for sticking up for a friend at a club and was arrested because of it??? What a scumbag. Me and my perfect self would never get into any type of trouble like that.

It's as if Whitner occupies the very last spot on the 53 man roster, and he is barley good enough to play football. It's seriously incredible. Anytime I watch a Bills game, the announcers always mention Whitner and his play. The coaches continously praise Whitner. His teammates continuously praise him. I get that he isn't Ed Reed, understandable. But for some of you to think we are better off without him? Stupid. At the very least, the guy is great depth.

Whitner is 4th in the NFL with tackles. 4th. Wait... HOLD ON! It's because he makes his tackles 10 yards down field right? lol. Or maybe it's because our LB's suck, and Whitner has to come up and play their position 10 times a game. Put Whitner on Baltimore, a team that gets pressure damn near every down, and he will flourish. Get him front 7 help, and he will get better.

He wants to be a Buffalo Bill. He's passionate and dedicated to the game. I say no to breaking the bank for him. However, I say it's a good move to resign him, and Chan and Buddy obviously think so too. But, hold on... You all know better than Buddy and Chan of course, how could I forget.

First, your entire first paragraph is absurd. Whitner is consistently mediocre to bad and I point it out after every game. He's had a few good games recently, for which I gave him props, but to say that the argument against Whitner is based on an incident from 4 years ago and Twitter is ridiculous.

Second, you refuse to see this because you make excuses for him- It's the LB's, it's the system- it's the team around him. Please. Yeah, Whitner would look better if you put him on Baltimore. SO WOULD ANY DEFENDER ON OUR TEAM!!!!! It's a team sport and ANY player will look better with better players around them. This is the worst red herring argument ever.

And for the record, Buffalo is a small market team with no superstars that has struggled for a decade. The only reason the announcers mention him so much is because he's such a loudmouth on Twitter. It's the closest thing we have to a player with name recognition.

[mayotm]

Orakpo over Maybin.

Another call many fans would have made. My own personal preference was Alex Mack over Maybin.

I can keep going, but I believe I've proven my point.You've proven that you can sit in your parents basement. Stuff your fat ass with Doritos and cheap beer. Then tell everybody on a message board how brilliant you are. That's about it.

[BillsFever21]

Although I'm not a huge fan of Whitner's play I can handle an extension if it's for average money. Maybe Top 10-15 average SS money at the most. He isn't an impact player and isn't worth anymore then that range of salary. The Bills will probably pay him more then that though.

[Mr. Pink]

You've proven that you can sit in your parents basement. Stuff your fat ass with Doritos and cheap beer. Then tell everybody on a message board how brilliant you are. That's about it.


Wow, resort to insults.

Stay classy and mature bro.

It suits you.

[justasportsfan]

He's playing his best football up to date . He's no probowler but he's slowly getting better and this is his first year under the new system.

[Billz_fan]

Whitner is being extended for the exact reasons so many of you have stated as his attributes and or shortcomings. He is being extended because he is serviceable and he will not break the bank. Those are the reasons he is being extended. If he were a standout star player that was commanding a big payday he would be gone just like all those that came before him period.

[Prov401]

First, your entire first paragraph is absurd. Whitner is consistently mediocre to bad and I point it out after every game. He's had a few good games recently, for which I gave him props, but to say that the argument against Whitner is based on an incident from 4 years ago and Twitter is ridiculous.

Second, you refuse to see this because you make excuses for him- It's the LB's, it's the system- it's the team around him. Please. Yeah, Whitner would look better if you put him on Baltimore. SO WOULD ANY DEFENDER ON OUR TEAM!!!!! It's a team sport and ANY player will look better with better players around them. This is the worst red herring argument ever.

And for the record, Buffalo is a small market team with no superstars that has struggled for a decade. The only reason the announcers mention him so much is because he's such a loudmouth on Twitter. It's the closest thing we have to a player with name recognition.

Are you serious? Your one of the guys who consistently mentions the Whitner penalty from years ago, hypocrite much? You practically mentioned it earlier with the 'back tackle' comment. And dude, are you kidding me????? Every Whitner hater on here ALWAYS mentions twitter ('Twitner') every time a thread is started about him. How the hell is me including that in my argument ridiculous?

Facts aren't excuses they are facts. Watch the games. Our LB's flat out blow. Jim Leonard looked like a bum safety with us... Hey guess what, he went to a real team down in Baltimore, and boom... guy looked like a stud. He's now one of the defensive captains and secondary play callers for the Jets. You think him playing with the terrible cover 2/ can't get a pass rush Bills had anything to do with him looking like a below average player? So again I say... How is me mentioning Whitner playing for a team with a real pass rush/LB play, 'ridiculous'?

I'm not even going to respond to your silly 3rd paragraph.

How is not resigning this guy a priority? He's our best safety, period. He wants to be here, he shows up every Sunday and grabs roughly 7 solo, 12 total tackles a game. I'd be pissed if we broke the bank for him, but I fail to see how creating more holes on our team benefits the defense next year. Makes absolutely no sense what so ever. He wants to be a Bill, and is having probably his best year yet. Like I said, the coach and GM obviously see something, or else they wouldn't be wasting their time negotiating a contract with him. Oh wait. We're a small market team, and Donte Whitner throwing up tweets every once and a while is what's keeping the Bills franchise relevant. lol.

[X-Era]

Whitner is being extended for the exact reasons so many of you have stated as his attributes and or shortcomings. He is being extended because he is serviceable and he will not break the bank. Those are the reasons he is being extended. If he were a standout star player that was commanding a big payday he would be gone just like all those that came before him period.I hope this trend changes as well. Nix stated he want's to build through the draft and resign our own. Well, he may build a star or two. How will he handle resigning them? We don't yet know.

[X-Era]

Are you serious? Your one of the guys who consistently mentions the Whitner penalty from years ago, hypocrite much? You practically mentioned it earlier with the 'back tackle' comment. And dude, are you kidding me????? Every Whitner hater on here ALWAYS mentions twitter ('Twitner') every time a thread is started about him. How the hell is me including that in my argument ridiculous?

Facts aren't excuses they are facts. Watch the games. Our LB's flat out blow. Jim Leonard looked like a bum safety with us... Hey guess what, he went to a real team down in Baltimore, and boom... guy looked like a stud. He's now one of the defensive captains and secondary play callers for the Jets. You think him playing with the terrible cover 2/ can't get a pass rush Bills had anything to do with him looking like a below average player? So again I say... How is me mentioning Whitner playing for a team with a real pass rush/LB play, 'ridiculous'?

I'm not even going to respond to your silly 3rd paragraph.

How is not resigning this guy a priority? He's our best safety, period. He wants to be here, he shows up every Sunday and grabs roughly 7 solo, 12 total tackles a game. I'd be pissed if we broke the bank for him, but I fail to see how creating more holes on our team benefits the defense next year. Makes absolutely no sense what so ever. He wants to be a Bill, and is having probably his best year yet. Like I said, the coach and GM obviously see something, or else they wouldn't be wasting their time negotiating a contract with him. Oh wait. We're a small market team, and Donte Whitner throwing up tweets every once and a while is what's keeping the Bills franchise relevant. lol.

He's currently 4th in the league in tackles (111). That alone may make a GM resign him.

Letting him go makes no sense unless you already have someone better. And we don't. Were trying to get better, not worse.

And as far as what players would be on another team, it's something that can't be overlooked. Gailey is absolutely right on this. Everything is inter-related. I stated above that Whitner is 4th in tackles in the league. But why? it's possible that that talks more to our lack of an ability to stay on the field on offense, and get off the field on defense. I mean the more plays you play per game, the more opportunity for tackles.

With an improved ability to run and stop the run, the offense will look better, the pass rush will be more effective, which will give us more picks, which will make individuals look better.

Regardless, if you have a player who's solid, and your 2 and 10, you have no business getting rid of them unless you already have someone better. To me, the players in jeopardy are the ones who haven't even shown the are solid or look like they simply don't have enough talent. And as I said before, solid, even marginal starters with experience are very valuable as backups. I'd much rather start one of them due to injury than these undrafted rookies with no experience.

[OpIv37]

Whitner is being extended for the exact reasons so many of you have stated as his attributes and or shortcomings. He is being extended because he is serviceable and he will not break the bank. Those are the reasons he is being extended. If he were a standout star player that was commanding a big payday he would be gone just like all those that came before him period.

I'll be surprised if he doesn't break the bank. First, this is the team that gave Kelsay $24 million. Second, Donte greatly overvalues himself.

[OpIv37]

Are you serious? Your one of the guys who consistently mentions the Whitner penalty from years ago, hypocrite much? You practically mentioned it earlier with the 'back tackle' comment. And dude, are you kidding me????? Every Whitner hater on here ALWAYS mentions twitter ('Twitner') every time a thread is started about him. How the hell is me including that in my argument ridiculous?

Facts aren't excuses they are facts. Watch the games. Our LB's flat out blow. Jim Leonard looked like a bum safety with us... Hey guess what, he went to a real team down in Baltimore, and boom... guy looked like a stud. He's now one of the defensive captains and secondary play callers for the Jets. You think him playing with the terrible cover 2/ can't get a pass rush Bills had anything to do with him looking like a below average player? So again I say... How is me mentioning Whitner playing for a team with a real pass rush/LB play, 'ridiculous'?

I'm not even going to respond to your silly 3rd paragraph.

How is not resigning this guy a priority? He's our best safety, period. He wants to be here, he shows up every Sunday and grabs roughly 7 solo, 12 total tackles a game. I'd be pissed if we broke the bank for him, but I fail to see how creating more holes on our team benefits the defense next year. Makes absolutely no sense what so ever. He wants to be a Bill, and is having probably his best year yet. Like I said, the coach and GM obviously see something, or else they wouldn't be wasting their time negotiating a contract with him. Oh wait. We're a small market team, and Donte Whitner throwing up tweets every once and a while is what's keeping the Bills franchise relevant. lol.

Show me the last time I mentioned the Whitner penalty. But if I do mention it a lot, it's EXACTLY because of people like you: people who defend Whitner for every dumb-ass, stupid thing he does, no matter how obviously stupid it is. The penalty from years ago is the clearest example, but people like you do it all the time. In fact, you're doing it right now.


I watch ALL the games. I see Whitner flying in with his back tackles after a player is already on the ground. I see Brady whiz TD passes past his head. I see him consistently a step or two late to make a play on the ball in coverage. I see him consistently beat by TE's one on one. I see him getting bowled over by bigger running backs. I see him take bad angles and miss tackles on long run plays, or get juked out of his shorts in the hole by the RB. Facts are facts. This is what happens during the games.

Wow, Leonard looks better on two great D's in Baltimore and the Jets? Guess what? THAT CAN BE SAID OF ANY PLAYER. If a player needs to be on a good team to be good, well, then that player isn't very good. You're just making excuses for Whitner (see my first paragraph).

He's the best S on the Bills? Really? That's like being the smartest guy on the short bus. That's like being the best sprinter at fat camp. That's like being in the best shape out of everyone eating at Old Country Buffet. Need me to keep going? Whitner IS a hole already. Granted, it's not as high priority as, say, LB or OT, but he's a hole. Re-signing him is just rewarding mediocrity.

[OpIv37]

He's currently 4th in the league in tackles (111). That alone may make a GM resign him.

Letting him go makes no sense unless you already have someone better. And we don't. Were trying to get better, not worse.

And as far as what players would be on another team, it's something that can't be overlooked. Gailey is absolutely right on this. Everything is inter-related. I stated above that Whitner is 4th in tackles in the league. But why? it's possible that that talks more to our lack of an ability to stay on the field on offense, and get off the field on defense. I mean the more plays you play per game, the more opportunity for tackles.

With an improved ability to run and stop the run, the offense will look better, the pass rush will be more effective, which will give us more picks, which will make individuals look better.

Regardless, if you have a player who's solid, and your 2 and 10, you have no business getting rid of them unless you already have someone better. To me, the players in jeopardy are the ones who haven't even shown the are solid or look like they simply don't have enough talent. And as I said before, solid, even marginal starters with experience are very valuable as backups. I'd much rather start one of them due to injury than these undrafted rookies with no experience.

Two flaws in this post:
1. Whitner is NOT solid. He's barely average.

2. Where are we going to get an improved ability to run and stop the run? We've been saying that for 10 ****ing years and it hasn't happened yet.

[Luisito23]

Overpay for KW NOT backups!...Who's next Maybin?

[OpIv37]

****, I'm so tired of this argument. I wish they'd dump him just so we'd never have to have this discussion again.

[Beebe's Kid]

Tackles are over-rated...unless you don't make them.

This discussion is based more on a personal hate for Whitner than it is whether or not he is a good player, and valuable to this team, fitting the plan moving forward.

A lot of emotion out of the same crown that has been relatively quiet for most of the season, because Whitner has been playing really well.

He is only 25 years old. He has had time to adjust to the NFL, and it is starting to show.

I love how everybody second guesses the front office, and says they could make better decisions...then they are saying we need to start over at every position. Starting over is not a trend among any winning teams. PERIOD. They are not replacing GM's, coaching staffs, every players, every year.

The same people that cry about this team letting all their talent walk away, want to let players go that are at the end of the rookie contracts...When do you think players start to "get it?" When do they mature physically and mentally? Do you really think this is coincidence? Everybody here is impatient, the players finally develop, and they've been given up on and we have a new group of rookies to **** up and run out of town, and on to bigger better things in 3-4 years.

[OpIv37]

Tackles are over-rated...unless you don't make them.

This discussion is based more on a personal hate for Whitner than it is whether or not he is a good player, and valuable to this team, fitting the plan moving forward.

A lot of emotion out of the same crown that has been relatively quiet for most of the season, because Whitner has been playing really well.

He is only 25 years old. He has had time to adjust to the NFL, and it is starting to show.

I love how everybody second guesses the front office, and says they could make better decisions...then they are saying we need to start over at every position. Starting over is not a trend among any winning teams. PERIOD. They are not replacing GM's, coaching staffs, every players, every year.

The same people that cry about this team letting all their talent walk away, want to let players go that are at the end of the rookie contracts...When do you think players start to "get it?" When do they mature physically and mentally? Do you really think this is coincidence? Everybody here is impatient, the players finally develop, and they've been given up on and we have a new group of rookies to **** up and run out of town, and on to bigger better things in 3-4 years.

Winning teams are not starting over BECAUSE THEY MADE THE RIGHT DECISION IN THE FIRST PLACE. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

But Whitner is broken. All Whitner's tackle # proves is that our front 7 sucks at defending the run. He still can't cover a TE one one one. He's still always a step too late to make a play on the ball. He still takes bad angles on long runs... but uggh, I've already said all this.

Yes, we complain about letting talent walk. The problem is that Whitner isn't talent. Clements, Winfield, Peters, Fletcher, Pat Williams- that was talent. 25 and 5 years in the league- what you see is what you get. He's not getting any better.

You're really complaining that we're not patient in letting players develop after FIVE ****ING YEARS? That's just ridiculous.

[Mr. Pink]

Overpay for KW NOT backups!...Who's next Maybin?


Maybe we'll reward McKelvin next for his "solid" play.

[RockStar36]

Tackles are over-rated...unless you don't make them.

This discussion is based more on a personal hate for Whitner than it is whether or not he is a good player, and valuable to this team, fitting the plan moving forward.

A lot of emotion out of the same crown that has been relatively quiet for most of the season, because Whitner has been playing really well.

He is only 25 years old. He has had time to adjust to the NFL, and it is starting to show.

I love how everybody second guesses the front office, and says they could make better decisions...then they are saying we need to start over at every position. Starting over is not a trend among any winning teams. PERIOD. They are not replacing GM's, coaching staffs, every players, every year.

The same people that cry about this team letting all their talent walk away, want to let players go that are at the end of the rookie contracts...When do you think players start to "get it?" When do they mature physically and mentally? Do you really think this is coincidence? Everybody here is impatient, the players finally develop, and they've been given up on and we have a new group of rookies to **** up and run out of town, and on to bigger better things in 3-4 years.

Um, no it's not.

Look at the elite safeties in the league. You know where they are at all times and they are consistently making plays. Where is Donte Whitner? Nowhere.

[Mr. Pink]

Um, no it's not.

Look at the elite safeties in the league. You know where they are at all times and they are consistently making plays. Where is Donte Whitner? Nowhere.


Even just average to good safeties you hear about and know where they are at all times. Look at Jim Leonhard.

[justasportsfan]

Even just average to good safeties you hear about and know where they are at all times. Look at Jim Leonhard.


Jauron drafted Whitner and Jauron cut Leonard. :snicker:

[X-Era]

Two flaws in this post:
1. Whitner is NOT solid. He's barely average.

2. Where are we going to get an improved ability to run and stop the run? We've been saying that for 10 ****ing years and it hasn't happened yet.

1. Yes, IMO, he is. And I can think of 111 reasons why.

2. I dont get your concept. If a current player isn't a stud, we let him walk and replace him with a stud? Ok, when do we do that? This team pretty much never does that. If you imply we should let him go and bring in a draft pick that most likely makes us worse up front with a chance to be better long term. And the part that makes no sense is why we shouldn't pay a guy who is already here, is producing, and has experience in our scheme. At the very worst we overspend for a guy that gets replaced and ends up being a quality backup. Even if he's nothing more than a backup, we can use more like him when we are 2 and 10 and forced to sign undrafted free agents mid-season to start due to injury.

I don't care about lining Ralph's wallet... this is a 2 and 10 team.

[X-Era]

Two flaws in this post:
1. Whitner is NOT solid. He's barely average.

2. Where are we going to get an improved ability to run and stop the run? We've been saying that for 10 ****ing years and it hasn't happened yet.

This discussion can be summed up like this: Who replaces Whitner when you let him leave?

If your answer is anything other than a significantly better player right now, it makes us worse right now.

[OpIv37]

1. Yes, IMO, he is. And I can think of 111 reasons why.

2. I dont get your concept. If a current player isn't a stud, we let him walk and replace him with a stud? Ok, when do we do that? This team hardly never does that. If you imply we should let him go and bring in a draft pick that most likely makes us worse up front with a chance to be better long term. And the part that makes no sense is why we shouldn't pay a guy who is already here, is producing, and has experience in our scheme. At the very worst we overspend for a guy that gets replaced and ends up being a quality backup. Even if he's nothing more than a backup, we can use more like him when we are 2 and 10 and forced to sign undrafted free agents mid-season to start due to injury.

I don't care about lining Ralph's wallet... this is a 2 and 10 team.

You don't get what?

You said that Whitner would look better if we could run and stop the run. Well, we've needed to improve in those areas for 10 years and haven't been able to do it yet. So why should we expect it to happen now.

Yes, this is a 2-10 team. Which means most of the team- Whitner included- needs to be upgraded. I don't care about lining Ralph's wallet either- but Ralph cares about his own wallet. He's not going to pay Whitner to be a back up and bring in someone else. If he pays Whitner, then that's what we get.

And experience in our scheme? 12 games? 16 by the end of the season if he doesn't get hurt? And he's not producing- he's had 2, maybe 3 good games in the new scheme. Buffalo didn't invent the 3-4 this year. There are plenty of other S's who have played in the scheme.

[Mr. Pink]

This discussion can be summed up like this: Who replaces Whitner when you let him leave?

If your answer is anything other than a significantly better player right now, it makes us worse right now.


George Wilson.

There is zero drop off replacing Whitner with Wilson in the lineup. Then you sign or draft a backup/starter/eventual starter.

[Mr. Pink]

Jauron drafted Whitner and Jauron cut Leonard. :snicker:


The Marv drafted Whitner.

Because of Whitners draft position he got every chance in the world to prove he could play which then makes a guy like Leonhard expendable.

[trapezeus]

i'm not against signing him, i just don't see that we are going to get a fair price.

He's a mid level safety. He should be paid as such. George wilson will demand the exact same salary because he plays the exact same game. Except he doesn't take poor angles to running backs.

I also think the hate for whitner may have died down because the front seven are so outrageously bad

[justasportsfan]

The Marv drafted Whitner.

Because of Whitners draft position he got every chance in the world to prove he could play which then makes a guy like Leonhard expendable.

bwahaha! Puhlease,Excuses. Marv was a bobblehead. Like it or not, Dick screwed up this team. From drafting players, personel moves to gameplaning.

So before you go around pointing out whats wrong with this team, make sure Dick had nothing to do with it because your cynicism contradicts your love for Dick. :snicker:

Whats next? Maybin is Marv's mistake? :roflmao:

[madness]

George Wilson.

There is zero drop off replacing Whitner with Wilson in the lineup. Then you sign or draft a backup/starter/eventual starter.
George Wilson should be starting alongside Whitner, not replacing him. This isn't the Tampa 2 anymore... the safeties aren't interchangeable. It's no surprise Whitner has looked better this year. He's finally at his natural position and playing in a defense that closely resembles the one he played in at Ohio St.

[OpIv37]

George Wilson should be starting alongside Whitner, not replacing him. This isn't the Tampa 2 anymore... the safeties aren't interchangeable. It's no surprise Whitner has looked better this year. He's finally at his natural position and playing in a defense that closely resembles the one he played in at Ohio St.

he looked better the past 2 or 3 games. Earlier in the year he was the same old Whitner. I'm not willing to ignore 4 1/2 years of mediocrity over 3 games.

[Beebe's Kid]

he looked better the past 2 or 3 games. Earlier in the year he was the same old Whitner. I'm not willing to ignore 4 1/2 years of mediocrity over 3 games.

Why, you're very quick to ignore a good game, so you can point out 1 or 2 plays. That is the formula that you used to get your 4 1/2 years of mediocrity.

Whitner is 25. That doesn't seem to matter, he is finally going to be coming into his prime, and his game is reflecting it. Whether or not the anit-Whitner crowd is going to continue to fail to acknowledge that, you don't get a player to the cusp and move on to another rookie.

That is why this team is where it's at. The same people making the arguments here, piss and moan about what former Bills are doing throughout the league. Although the sound reasoning of "it's because it's not Buffalo" sounds so good and fits into the Eyore-like sentiment... it may be, going out on a limb here, related to the fact that they were let walk after a rookie contract, and once they developed into quality players they were on other rosters...maybe.

[OpIv37]

Why, you're very quick to ignore a good game, so you can point out 1 or 2 plays. That is the formula that you used to get your 4 1/2 years of mediocrity.

Whitner is 25. That doesn't seem to matter, he is finally going to be coming into his prime, and his game is reflecting it. Whether or not the anit-Whitner crowd is going to continue to fail to acknowledge that, you don't get a player to the cusp and move on to another rookie.

That is why this team is where it's at. The same people making the arguments here, piss and moan about what former Bills are doing throughout the league. Although the sound reasoning of "it's because it's not Buffalo" sounds so good and fits into the Eyore-like sentiment... it may be, going out on a limb here, related to the fact that they were let walk after a rookie contract, and once they developed into quality players they were on other rosters...maybe.

he's not "on the cusp." What you see is what you get. He's not getting any better.

You accuse me of basing it on one or two plays, which isn't true at all. I focus on the guy as much as the TV camera angles allow, and his mediocrity is constant. But, after that accusation, you still have the balls to base your argument on the fact that he's "on the cusp." Your only point is based on what you think will happen in the future.

And the reason this team is where it's at is because we've wasted first round draft picks on guys like Lynch, McCargo, Whitner, McKelvin, Maybin, etc.

[X-Era]

George Wilson.

There is zero drop off replacing Whitner with Wilson in the lineup. Then you sign or draft a backup/starter/eventual starter.I don't agree.

Are you saying Gailey couldn't see he was a better option? I mean why try to resign Whitner if Gailey thinks Wilson is a better option?

[X-Era]

You don't get what?

You said that Whitner would look better if we could run and stop the run. Well, we've needed to improve in those areas for 10 years and haven't been able to do it yet. So why should we expect it to happen now.

Yes, this is a 2-10 team. Which means most of the team- Whitner included- needs to be upgraded. I don't care about lining Ralph's wallet either- but Ralph cares about his own wallet. He's not going to pay Whitner to be a back up and bring in someone else. If he pays Whitner, then that's what we get.

And experience in our scheme? 12 games? 16 by the end of the season if he doesn't get hurt? And he's not producing- he's had 2, maybe 3 good games in the new scheme. Buffalo didn't invent the 3-4 this year. There are plenty of other S's who have played in the scheme.Forget whether he is better if our run D is better. Just forget that part. It was a response to that specific comment but really isn't part of this discussion.

The main point is this. If Ralph overpays and Whitner becomes just a backup after someone better replaces him, why do we care?

As far as whether he's willing to overpay or not, didn't he just do that with Kelsay?

If you just want the guy gone, that's fine. But state it like that. Because without a viable alternative that's better, just letting him go makes us worse.

To me it the lump sum total of talent that needs to be better, and deleting a part of that without replacing it with a better version is taking from the lump sum total, not adding to it.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't agree.

Are you saying Gailey couldn't see he was a better option? I mean why try to resign Whitner if Gailey thinks Wilson is a better option?


By this logic, why question the Kelsay extension? Gailey must think he's a better option than other avenues too.

[Mr. Pink]

The main point is this. If Ralph overpays and Whitner becomes just a backup after someone better replaces him, why do we care?




Here's why we "care" or at least should "care"

The team has an internal budget that does not equal the max salary cap, by overpaying someone like Kelsay and like Whitner now that ties money into guys that are part of the problem. So instead of being able to pay guys that could be part of the solution, we've pissed that away to be "nice" to guys; like Lee Evans for example.

[OpIv37]

Forget whether he is better if our run D is better. Just forget that part. It was a response to that specific comment but really isn't part of this discussion.

The main point is this. If Ralph overpays and Whitner becomes just a backup after someone better replaces him, why do we care?

As far as whether he's willing to overpay or not, didn't he just do that with Kelsay?

If you just want the guy gone, that's fine. But state it like that. Because without a viable alternative that's better, just letting him go makes us worse.

To me it the lump sum total of talent that needs to be better, and deleting a part of that without replacing it with a better version is taking from the lump sum total, not adding to it.

We don't care if Ralph overpays him, but I'm telling you that's not going to happen. Ralph will use the money he gives Whitner as an excuse not to pay anyone else. I don't have a problem with it-it's just not a realistic scenario. Ralph may overpay Whitner like he did with Kelsay, but he won't bring in anyone else if he does that.

I'm in favor of upgrading the position- dumping Whitner and bringing in someone better, either via FA or the draft. Now, in the past, this team has been good at dumping mediocrity but bad at replacing it with someone who isn't equally as mediocre, so that is a concern. But I view keeping guys like Whitner, Stroud, Kelsay, Poz, etc as maintaining the status quo. We can't (or Ralph won't) bring in improvements as long as these guys are on the team.

[DynaPaul]

2 words: Vet Minimum.

[X-Era]

Here's why we "care" or at least should "care"

The team has an internal budget that does not equal the max salary cap, by overpaying someone like Kelsay and like Whitner now that ties money into guys that are part of the problem. So instead of being able to pay guys that could be part of the solution, we've pissed that away to be "nice" to guys; like Lee Evans for example.I love this argument, it's cheapskate at it's best. This team was 30+ mill under the cap before it ended and the cap will most likely be higher after that. We have plenty of money under the supposed cap, and should be spending competitive money. We aren't and haven't been. Again, I have no problem with resigning Whitner based on the money.

If Ralph doesn't want to compete both on and off the field, sell the team. This is an argument we have all the time around here. It's fine because Ralph isn't immortal and at some point we will get a potentially different situation.

Anyways, we have no idea what the terms are, we will have to wait. And no matter what they are, the people who don;t want Whitner anymore will complain. I actually have no problem with that. My argument is that we can't seem to see that deletion without a better replacement makes us worse... on a 2 and 10 team.

[X-Era]

By this logic, why question the Kelsay extension? Gailey must think he's a better option than other avenues too.I'm not sure I did question the Kelsay extension. I think he can be a decent part of a rotation but must be used the right way. Which it appears Gailey sees and is currently working on.

[X-Era]

We don't care if Ralph overpays him, but I'm telling you that's not going to happen. Ralph will use the money he gives Whitner as an excuse not to pay anyone else. I don't have a problem with it-it's just not a realistic scenario. Ralph may overpay Whitner like he did with Kelsay, but he won't bring in anyone else if he does that.

I'm in favor of upgrading the position- dumping Whitner and bringing in someone better, either via FA or the draft. Now, in the past, this team has been good at dumping mediocrity but bad at replacing it with someone who isn't equally as mediocre, so that is a concern. But I view keeping guys like Whitner, Stroud, Kelsay, Poz, etc as maintaining the status quo. We can't (or Ralph won't) bring in improvements as long as these guys are on the team.I think your assumption is wrong in that you assume we will bring in someone significantly better with our second-tier FA method or that we can draft someone who will play better in year one or two.

And I don;t think enough credit is given to Gailey here. I don't see him having any trouble benching a guy who isn't playing as good as someone else. We may resign Whitner thinking he's all we need but if we draft or sign someone who becomes the better option, he will be starting. And then we have depth which is something we need.

[OpIv37]

I think your assumption is wrong in that you assume we will bring in someone significantly better with our second-tier FA method or that we can draft someone who will play better in year one or two.

And I don;t think enough credit is given to Gailey here. I don't see him having any trouble benching a guy who isn't playing as good as someone else. We may resign Whitner thinking he's all we need but if we draft or sign someone who becomes the better option, he will be starting. And then we have depth which is something we need.
But thats my point. If we are ever going to win, we need to start bu getting rid of guys like Whitner and finish with better drafting and/or better FA pickups. If we ditch Whitner, will it happen? I don't know. It hasn't happened in the past, so it is a concern. But until it changes, we will keep losing.

[Mr. Pink]

I love this argument, it's cheapskate at it's best. This team was 30+ mill under the cap before it ended and the cap will most likely be higher after that. We have plenty of money under the supposed cap, and should be spending competitive money. We aren't and haven't been. Again, I have no problem with resigning Whitner based on the money.

If Ralph doesn't want to compete both on and off the field, sell the team. This is an argument we have all the time around here. It's fine because Ralph isn't immortal and at some point we will get a potentially different situation.

Anyways, we have no idea what the terms are, we will have to wait. And no matter what they are, the people who don;t want Whitner anymore will complain. I actually have no problem with that. My argument is that we can't seem to see that deletion without a better replacement makes us worse... on a 2 and 10 team.


Yes, cheapskate, by the franchise. They have a set limit they are willing to spend to. It has nothing to do with what the NFL set limit is. When you overpay as a franchise to mediocrity you bring in less quality players.

Personally, I wouldn't keep Whitner around for vet minimum. He's a bust and another terrible pick in a decade long list.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm not sure I did question the Kelsay extension. I think he can be a decent part of a rotation but must be used the right way. Which it appears Gailey sees and is currently working on.


Whenever you say that the team overpaid him, you're questioning the move.

Because you feel he could have been signed for less.

[X-Era]

Personally, I wouldn't keep Whitner around for vet minimum. He's a bust and another terrible pick in a decade long list.
You could have ended the whole discussion with this statement. And yes, it was obvious.

Anyways, unless you know what the Bills number is, the rest is assumption as to what they can and can't spend.

[X-Era]

Whenever you say that the team overpaid him, you're questioning the move.

Because you feel he could have been signed for less.I don't question the move at all. I feel a team this bad will have to overpay until they get good enough that players want to be here and will pick us over other opportunities.

And I simply hope that we have turned the corner and will add second tier guys or draftees that will pan out and become much better than what we have now.

Yes, I think we seriously could be on that track. That would mean guys like Kelsay and Whitner head to the bench and the guy who are starting are significantly better than them... and that means this team has solid depth and very good starters... I like that potential future.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't question the move at all. I feel a team this bad will have to overpay until they get good enough that players want to be here and will pick us over other opportunities.

And I simply hope that we have turned the corner and will add second tier guys or draftees that will pan out and become much better than what we have now.

Yes, I think we seriously could be on that track. That would mean guys like Kelsay and Whitner head to the bench and the guy who are starting are significantly better than them... and that means this team has solid depth and very good starters... I like that potential future.


That's the problem.

Kelsay is getting paid starter money. He's not just going to head to the bench because of the investment the franchise has made with him.

[X-Era]

That's the problem.

Kelsay is getting paid starter money. He's not just going to head to the bench because of the investment the franchise has made with him.And that's where I think you underestimate Gailey. Maybin ought to prove that point. 11 pick money and Gailey is healthy scratching him.