Oh come the **** on

[sqad5]

Fred Jackson had 29 carries and 112 yards 3.9 avg, i love Jackson but imagine if spiller got that many carries. wtf it's close to the end of the season open it up for him please just ! game Pleasssssssssssssssse.

[X-Era]

Fred Jackson had 29 carries and 112 yards 3.9 avg, i love Jackson but imagine if spiller got that many carries. wtf it's close to the end of the season open it up for him please just ! game Pleasssssssssssssssse.A win is a win and it's not like were cutting Spiller any time soon. He's developing.

[ParanoidAndroid]

A win is a win and it's not like were cutting Spiller any time soon. He's developing.

Yep.

Love the sig, by the way! :chuckle:

[Tiburon1724]

A win is a win and it's not like were cutting Spiller any time soon. He's developing.

He'd develop more quickly with more touches

[X-Era]

He'd develop more quickly with more touchesProbably true, but Jackson is very good, so what's the rush?

[sqad5]

He'd develop more quickly with more touches
Thank you. 20+ 1 game Go bills

[Mr. Pink]

Thank you. 20+ 1 game Go bills


You do realize Spiller topped 20 carries only 5 times in his entire collegiate career, right?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I wouldn't have trusted him with that many carries today. He fumbled once with the limited carries he had and has shown a propensity for putting the ball on the carpet in past games.

[Forward_Lateral]

When are people going to realize that Spiller isn't a 20 carry per game RB?

[SpillerThrills]

When are people going to realize that Spiller isn't a 20 carry per game RB?


while I do agree with you, I do think that he needs to get more than 5 carries a game.... somewhere between 10 and 15 would be ideal.

[sqad5]

You do realize Spiller topped 20 carries only 5 times in his entire collegiate career, right?
Did you notice the results?

[Mr. Pink]

while I do agree with you, I do think that he needs to get more than 5 carries a game.... somewhere between 10 and 15 would be ideal.


In 52 games at Clemson he had 606 carries, an average of just under 12 carries a game.

So you expect a guy to carry a bigger load or just as as big of a load in college at the NFL level where everyone is bigger, faster, stronger, hits harder?

At some point he'll probably settle into a role where he gets about 7 or 8 carries a game and catches 3-5 passes.

[Ginger Vitis]

At some point he'll probably settle into a role where he gets about 7 or 8 carries a game and catches 3-5 passes.


If that is the extent of the load he will carry he was a bad pick @9

[dasaybz]

Saying Spiller isn't a 20+ carry RB is freaking laughable.

Do you people even watch the NFL?

[Mr. Pink]

Saying Spiller isn't a 20+ carry RB is freaking laughable.

Do you people even watch the NFL?


Thinking a back who was a 12 carry college RB will turn into a 20+ carry NFL RB is even more laughable.

[dasaybz]

Thinking a back who was a 12 carry college RB will turn into a 20+ carry NFL RB is even more laughable.

Explain again why he isn't capable of doing it? Saying he didn't do it in college is dumb, so give us a good reason.

[more cowbell]

Explain again why he isn't capable of doing it? Saying he didn't do it in college is dumb, so give us a good reason.


He is not even close to being physical enough to carry the ball more than 10 times a game. He gets rag dolled on many runs - he has no ability to run between the tackles.

Miserable draft pick.

[Mahdi]

Thinking a back who was a 12 carry college RB will turn into a 20+ carry NFL RB is even more laughable.
Spiller had 216 carries in his senior season at Clemson. Chris Johnson had 236 carries in his senior season. So that 20 carry difference is what made Johnson capable of being a 20+ carry guy in the NFL???

Oh and Spiller returned punts and kicks. Saying Spiller can't be a 20 carry guy is pretty much baseless.

[Mahdi]

He is not even close to being physical enough to carry the ball more than 10 times a game. He gets rag dolled on many runs - he has no ability to run between the tackles.

Miserable draft pick.
It's called learning. Darren McFadden was apparently a busted pick too. Spiller will learn when to juke and when to put his shoulder down very soon. The guy is improving and I am 100% sure he will be a complete RB.

[Oaf]

It's called learning. Darren McFadden was apparently a busted pick too. Spiller will learn when to juke and when to put his shoulder down very soon. The guy is improving and I am 100% sure he will be a complete RB.
Agreed there. Besides, at this point- again assuming the Bills play to win- running Spiller over Jackson may have been a detriment to our offense, esp in setting up 3rd down situations.

[Mr. Pink]

Spiller had 216 carries in his senior season at Clemson. Chris Johnson had 236 carries in his senior season. So that 20 carry difference is what made Johnson capable of being a 20+ carry guy in the NFL???

Oh and Spiller returned punts and kicks. Saying Spiller can't be a 20 carry guy is pretty much baseless.


Chris Johnson averaged 16 carries a game in college.

Reggie Bush averaged 13 carries a game in college.

Spiller averaged under 12 carries a game in college.

BTW I'm sure you knew this already but decided to gloss over it anyways...Johnson got his 236 carries in 1 less game as well.

[ServoBillieves]

It's a 2 back league. Freddy has proven he's the better back so far, and Spiller seemed to be doing the "McGahee Shuffle" while Freddy hits the seam and runs with it.

Spiller is that attempt at a homerun, but I don't see that happening until next season.

[BertSquirtgum]

You do realize Spiller topped 20 carries only 5 times in his entire collegiate career, right?
you keep bringing that up. i don't care how many he had in college. give him the ball more.

for anyone to say that he can't become a 20+ carry back is completely moronic.

[DraftBoy]

Spiller had 216 carries in his senior season at Clemson. Chris Johnson had 236 carries in his senior season. So that 20 carry difference is what made Johnson capable of being a 20+ carry guy in the NFL???

Oh and Spiller returned punts and kicks. Saying Spiller can't be a 20 carry guy is pretty much baseless.

Even with all his returns (which he didnt do hardly any of his senior year, because his carries increased so much), he still averaged only between 15-17 touches a game. That's carries, receptions, and returns.

This guy is not Chris Johnson and never has been. Comparing him to Johnson in anyway is poor because Johnson is a physical back who does not shy away from contact. He has the athletic ability to make people miss and has incredible speed (like Spiller) but he is a far more physical runner than Spiller. You could see that at ECU, just like you could see Spiller was not one at Clemson.

[Mr. Pink]

Even with all his returns (which he didnt do hardly any of his senior year, because his carries increased so much), he still averaged only between 15-17 touches a game. That's carries, receptions, and returns.

This guy is not Chris Johnson and never has been. Comparing him to Johnson in anyway is poor because Johnson is a physical back who does not shy away from contact. He has the athletic ability to make people miss and has incredible speed (like Spiller) but he is a far more physical runner than Spiller. You could see that at ECU, just like you could see Spiller was not one at Clemson.


I was gonna post this but didn't want to have to deal with the responses it would get.

[Mahdi]

Chris Johnson averaged 16 carries a game in college.

Reggie Bush averaged 13 carries a game in college.

Spiller averaged under 12 carries a game in college.

BTW I'm sure you knew this already but decided to gloss over it anyways...Johnson got his 236 carries in 1 less game as well.
So that extra 4 carries per game is the clincher eh...

[Mahdi]

Even with all his returns (which he didnt do hardly any of his senior year, because his carries increased so much), he still averaged only between 15-17 touches a game. That's carries, receptions, and returns.

This guy is not Chris Johnson and never has been. Comparing him to Johnson in anyway is poor because Johnson is a physical back who does not shy away from contact. He has the athletic ability to make people miss and has incredible speed (like Spiller) but he is a far more physical runner than Spiller. You could see that at ECU, just like you could see Spiller was not one at Clemson.
Johnson was not a physical runner in his rookie year. Spiller will learn. It's not like the guy is small it's just a matter of getting more carries and understanding when to get low and when to be shifty. Right now he is trying to make everyone miss which he is finding out is not that easy.

Chris Johnson is 5'11 191.

Spiller is 5'11 196. So it is not a size issue.

Spiller will learn when he is given a chance to learn. Even yesterday I saw him starting to lower his shoulder and initiate contact on some of his inside runs. It will come.

[Mahdi]

BTW... Spiller averaged 15 carries per game in his senior year.

And Over his career he had a total of 606 carries and 123 receptions.

Chris Johnson had 624 carries and 125 receptions.

Please don't use the stats anymore to claim Spiller can't be a 20+ carry guy because they are way too identical.

And some more for you.... Spiller averaged 151 carries per season in college and Johnson averaged 156.

Gloss over that.

[madness]

In all the crying over Spiller milk, people miss that he's still nursing a hamstring injury and is not 100% yet. Even Gailey said this last week of practice was the healthiest he's seen him yet.

[Whysoserious?]

If Freddy can average 4 yards a carry, keep giving him the ball.

[DesertFox24]

When are people going to realize that Spiller isn't a 20 carry per game RB?

When he is 210 pounds next year he will be.

[sqad5]

If Freddy can average 4 yards a carry, keep giving him the ball.DUh we know this but were not going to the playoffs, let spiller run run run

[DraftBoy]

Johnson was not a physical runner in his rookie year. Spiller will learn. It's not like the guy is small it's just a matter of getting more carries and understanding when to get low and when to be shifty. Right now he is trying to make everyone miss which he is finding out is not that easy.

Chris Johnson is 5'11 191.

Spiller is 5'11 196. So it is not a size issue.

Spiller will learn when he is given a chance to learn. Even yesterday I saw him starting to lower his shoulder and initiate contact on some of his inside runs. It will come.

You're not listening, Chris Johnson was a physical runner at ECU, yes his rookie year he was not as physical though your characterizing him of not being one at all is wrong because he was adjusting to the size and speed factor.

Your assertion that just because two guys are the same size, they can do the same thing is absurd and ridiculous considering Spiller has never in his life been thought of or considered to be a physical runner.

[DraftBoy]

BTW... Spiller averaged 15 carries per game in his senior year.

And Over his career he had a total of 606 carries and 123 receptions.

Chris Johnson had 624 carries and 125 receptions.

Please don't use the stats anymore to claim Spiller can't be a 20+ carry guy because they are way too identical.

And some more for you.... Spiller averaged 151 carries per season in college and Johnson averaged 156.

Gloss over that.

Logical Fallacy.

[Mahdi]

You're not listening, Chris Johnson was a physical runner at ECU, yes his rookie year he was not as physical though your characterizing him of not being one at all is wrong because he was adjusting to the size and speed factor.

Your assertion that just because two guys are the same size, they can do the same thing is absurd and ridiculous considering Spiller has never in his life been thought of or considered to be a physical runner.
I didn't say because they are the same size they can do the same things. I said not even that would be a factor because Spiller is actually bigger.

I also never said Spiller was physical in college.

What I am saying is that Spiller will learn when to be physical and when to grind for yards just like Johnson did in his sophomore year.

Plus, Spiller has actually done very well with his carries between the tackles. He did very well with them yesterday and I saw him drive the pile well. So he is already learning and showing he is capable of it.

[dannyek71]

RB is the fastest position to pick up in likely any of the 4 major sports. The guy has done nothing this season.

Until he proves otherwise, he is a wasted pick just like Maybin. We can argue all day about if ands or buts. What he did in college vs what Jim Thorpe did or whoever you'd like to compare him too.

Fact of the matter is the stats he has put up. If he were a better rb than Freddy, he'd be carrying the ball more. Don't you think that this coaching staff WANTS him to succeed? Is he part of the same "non playing" conspiracy than John McCargo is part of? One where we go out of our way to hold back good players? Additionally, he cannot pass block worth a dime which is a big reason he is not in there more.

We had NUMEROUS needs on this team and decided to draft at our strongest position. Now its time to sleep in the bed we made.

[dasaybz]

He is not even close to being physical enough to carry the ball more than 10 times a game. He gets rag dolled on many runs - he has no ability to run between the tackles.

Miserable draft pick.

I have never once came to that conclusion watching him play. I guess you see things differently.

[dasaybz]

You guys are acting like Spiller is completely useless out there (ala Maybin). I know that you guys really want him to be a home run threat and to be a Hall of Famer immediately, but let's look at some facts here.

1. He was by far the best player available on the board when we picked. I'm going to take Nix's side on this one over a couple of wanna be draft gurus on this board.

2. He's behind a very good player on the depth chart, and has been since the season began. We didn't have a pressing need to toss him in the fire because of who was in front of him.

3. He's been injured.

I would love to see him be the feature back, and we are 1 injury away from seeing it. So, to all you guys that think he isn't a 20 carry back, what happens if Fred gets hurt? Guess what, CJ becomes a 20 carry back by default. And if that happens, his 4 ypc will be fine, and he probably busts a couple open. Let's not forget, Fred is 30, so he's just about done in this league.

[Forward_Lateral]

Spiller is a Reggie Bush replica. Dangerous ability to take it to the house on any given play, but not built as a feature back. Bush excels in the open field, as does Spiller, not in between the tackles, where a team wins games.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Fred Jackson had 29 carries and 112 yards 3.9 avg, i love Jackson but imagine if spiller got that many carries. wtf it's close to the end of the season open it up for him please just ! game Pleasssssssssssssssse.Jackson is the starting RB. The starting RB traditionally gets more carries in a football game. Spiller just has to man up, or wait his turn. That's all there is to it.

[DraftBoy]

I didn't say because they are the same size they can do the same things. I said not even that would be a factor because Spiller is actually bigger.

I also never said Spiller was physical in college.

What I am saying is that Spiller will learn when to be physical and when to grind for yards just like Johnson did in his sophomore year.

Plus, Spiller has actually done very well with his carries between the tackles. He did very well with them yesterday and I saw him drive the pile well. So he is already learning and showing he is capable of it.

Which is fine if that's your assumption, but dont get upset when others make the counter assumption about his game.

He has always played the game a certain way, to think he will now discover or choose to run a different way is a leap in logic Im not prepare to go with you on.

To me he's not a physial runner and I dont see him becoming one. That's not to say he's not a big time talent and is being used properly now because I dont think he is. But that's part of my issue with Gailey more than anything about Spiller.

[dasaybz]

I think it's a moot point until Spiller actually gets the opportunity to be the full time back, which is very likely (even though some of you insist it will never happen).

[DraftBoy]

I think it's a moot point until Spiller actually gets the opportunity to be the full time back, which is very likely (even though some of you insist it will never happen).

Its not a moot point at all. Its a relevant point, because as Jackson gets older we are going to need to decide what kind of complimentary back we need with Spiller. If he's going to be your 25+ carry a back game then that's fine the need for a capable #2 back isn't as great but if this coach staff feels he's only a 12-15 carry a game back we have a huge need for a #2 back after Jackson is gone.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Spiller will have to step it up or Jackson will continue to get the bulk of the carries. Jackson earned the top spot, and has yet to be contested by Spiller. Just because Spiller is a top pick doesn't mean he automatically gets the right to the number 1 RB spot. Just like every other Pro, he has to earn that. He's not at Clemson anymore.

[Mahdi]

Which is fine if that's your assumption, but dont get upset when others make the counter assumption about his game.

He has always played the game a certain way, to think he will now discover or choose to run a different way is a leap in logic Im not prepare to go with you on.

To me he's not a physial runner and I dont see him becoming one. That's not to say he's not a big time talent and is being used properly now because I dont think he is. But that's part of my issue with Gailey more than anything about Spiller.
Who is getting upset??

My opinion is that he will adapt to the NFL game because he is a good football player and good football players learn to add to their game in order to remain good football players.

You seem to ignore the fact that Spiller is already showing he can be physical. And the Browns game was a good example. Even Gailey commented on it.

[DraftBoy]

Who is getting upset??

My opinion is that he will adapt to the NFL game because he is a good football player and good football players learn to add to their game in order to remain good football players.

You seem to ignore the fact that Spiller is already showing he can be physical. And the Browns game was a good example. Even Gailey commented on it.

Id argue the bolded back to you in the counter, because if the Browns game was what you consider to be physical running style then we have two completely different definitions.

[Forward_Lateral]

Physical backs run through people, not around them. I have yet to see Spiller even push anyone back for extra yardage. Not once. He's NOT a physical back, and that's not what the Bills drafted him for. If you think he's going to become a physical style back, that's your opinion, but it isn't going to happen.

[Mahdi]

Id argue the bolded back to you in the counter, because if the Browns game was what you consider to be physical running style then we have two completely different definitions.
K the guy wasn't Bettis. But he was doing very well with his inside runs and was strong when contacted gaining positive yards.

That is a step towards understanding how to be a physical RB. And although Chris Johnson is physical that is the extent of his physicality. We are not talking about a guy who is running over people. We are talking about a speed back who is good at getting positive yardage after contact. That is what Spiller is learning to do and the Browns game was a step towards that.

Neither Johnson nor Spiller will ever be Iron Head Heyward.

[BertSquirtgum]

Physical backs run through people, not around them. I have yet to see Spiller even push anyone back for extra yardage. Not once. He's NOT a physical back, and that's not what the Bills drafted him for. If you think he's going to become a physical style back, that's your opinion, but it isn't going to happen.

you don't know jack squat

[Ickybaluky]

I don't think running is Spiller's issue. If he wants to get on the field, he will work on his blocking. If he learns to understand blitz schemes and what he has to do to protect in passing situations, I imagine he will play more.

Spiller doesn't have to carry the ball 20 times a game. Very few backs do that. In 2008 only 5 backs had over 300 carries, last year 6 backs did that. This year, probably about half a dozen guys will hit that many carries.

Spiller is a home run hitter. He is a dynamic guy who can make explosive plays. That is his value. He is as much a threat in the passing game as the running game. He doesn't need 20 carries to be a great player, his sweet spot is probably about 15-18 total touches between runs and passes.

However, he has to learn to block. If he can't reliably protect, he can't play in the passing game. If he wants to play, he needs to learn to protect.

As for Jackson, he is a good player. I see no problem with him getting carries, even if Spiller does get more playing time. Nothing the matter with having 2 good backs.

[DraftBoy]

I don't think running is Spiller's issue. If he wants to get on the field, he will work on his blocking. If he learns to understand blitz schemes and what he has to do to protect in passing situations, I imagine he will play more.

Spiller doesn't have to carry the ball 20 times a game. Very few backs do that. In 2008 only 5 backs had over 300 carries, last year 6 backs did that. This year, probably about half a dozen guys will hit that many carries.

Spiller is a home run hitter. He is a dynamic guy who can make explosive plays. That is his value. He is as much a threat in the passing game as the running game. He doesn't need 20 carries to be a great player, his sweet spot is probably about 15-18 total touches between runs and passes.

However, he has to learn to block. If he can't reliably protect, he can't play in the passing game. If he wants to play, he needs to learn to protect.

As for Jackson, he is a good player. I see no problem with him getting carries, even if Spiller does get more playing time. Nothing the matter with having 2 good backs.

Completely agree and have said so since he was drafted, people here won't be happy if he's just a 15-18 touch guy.

[methos4ever]

Right now CJ's biggest problem has been time. He missed a lot of it during the holdout, so they had to scrap stuff they wanted to do, and then when he was hurt during the season that again cut into some of his development.

When he can run anything other than 7 or 8 hole and hit north/south, go on a wheel route and catch a pass as well as he can find Fitz's blitz declaration, then he'll be the weapon they drafted him to be.

[Ickybaluky]

Completely agree and have said so since he was drafted, people here won't be happy if he's just a 15-18 touch guy.

I am not sure why.

I think the model for Spiller should be Jamaal Charles in KC. I think that is what the Bills had in mind when they took Spiller. Compare their rookie years and you will see it took a little time for Charles to get adjusted as well.

If Spiller turns out like Charles, I think Bills fans would be pretty happy. I think a little patience is called for at this point.

[dasaybz]

Its not a moot point at all. Its a relevant point, because as Jackson gets older we are going to need to decide what kind of complimentary back we need with Spiller. If he's going to be your 25+ carry a back game then that's fine the need for a capable #2 back isn't as great but if this coach staff feels he's only a 12-15 carry a game back we have a huge need for a #2 back after Jackson is gone.
It's moot because we need to decide what kind of a complimentary back we need with Spiller after we see how he is when he is featured.

Again, it's a moot point until he gets the opportunity to be the feature guy.

Saying that he isn't going to get the chance to do it is freaking idiotic. There is no way in hell they drafted him at 9 with the mind set that he would only be a 3rd down back. He is going to be the feature back, the question is when.

[methos4ever]

Its not a moot point at all. Its a relevant point, because as Jackson gets older we are going to need to decide what kind of complimentary back we need with Spiller. If he's going to be your 25+ carry a back game then that's fine the need for a capable #2 back isn't as great but if this coach staff feels he's only a 12-15 carry a game back we have a huge need for a #2 back after Jackson is gone.

If we look at the guys Nix has been involved with Chargers, he was constantly trying to help out LT (all projections courtesy of NFL Draft Scout's Database)

04 - Michael Turner, a 5'11 237 lb bruiser, which fell from a 2nd round proj to the
5th. Turned into a great power guy and kept LT (along with his FB) fresh until his departure.

05 - Sproles was brought in - 5'6 187 scat back in the 4th round (projected in
4th). They also wanted a KR/PR to help with general ST assistance.

08 - Note that Nix retired/resigned prior to this draft.

However, he did scout and one of the guys picked up in UDFA was Mike Tolbert, a 5'9 246 lb bruiser (replacing Turner, who left in 08 FA). At first a Fullback in the scheme with Jacob Hester (2008 5-6th Round Proj, drafted in 3rd) and now co-lead back with their 2010 1st rounder.

I wouldn't be surprised if we did look for a bigger bruiser at some point, and perhaps a kick returner to eventually supplant Spiller...

[DraftBoy]

I am not sure why.

I think the model for Spiller should be Jamaal Charles in KC. I think that is what the Bills had in mind when they took Spiller. Compare their rookie years and you will see it took a little time for Charles to get adjusted as well.

If Spiller turns out like Charles, I think Bills fans would be pretty happy. I think a little patience is called for at this point.

That's a fantastic comparison. Especially when added in that Gailey coached Charles in KC.

[DraftBoy]

It's moot because we need to decide what kind of a complimentary back we need with Spiller after we see how he is when he is featured.

Again, it's a moot point until he gets the opportunity to be the feature guy.

Saying that he isn't going to get the chance to do it is freaking idiotic. There is no way in hell they drafted him at 9 with the mind set that he would only be a 3rd down back. He is going to be the feature back, the question is when.

In my mind, if you're not already looking towards next year and the year after trying to identify potential needs and issues you're way behind the ball.

This has been an issue for past Bills teams. Thinking just about the present is a fatal mistake.

[DraftBoy]

If we look at the guys Nix has been involved with Chargers, he was constantly trying to help out LT (all projections courtesy of NFL Draft Scout's Database)

04 - Michael Turner, a 5'11 237 lb bruiser, which fell from a 2nd round proj to the
5th. Turned into a great power guy and kept LT (along with his FB) fresh until his departure.

05 - Sproles was brought in - 5'6 187 scat back in the 4th round (projected in
4th). They also wanted a KR/PR to help with general ST assistance.

08 - Note that Nix retired/resigned prior to this draft.

However, he did scout and one of the guys picked up in UDFA was Mike Tolbert, a 5'9 246 lb bruiser (replacing Turner, who left in 08 FA). At first a Fullback in the scheme with Jacob Hester (2008 5-6th Round Proj, drafted in 3rd) and now co-lead back with their 2010 1st rounder.

I wouldn't be surprised if we did look for a bigger bruiser at some point, and perhaps a kick returner to eventually supplant Spiller...


Great points! :up:

[Mahdi]

If we look at the guys Nix has been involved with Chargers, he was constantly trying to help out LT (all projections courtesy of NFL Draft Scout's Database)

04 - Michael Turner, a 5'11 237 lb bruiser, which fell from a 2nd round proj to the
5th. Turned into a great power guy and kept LT (along with his FB) fresh until his departure.

05 - Sproles was brought in - 5'6 187 scat back in the 4th round (projected in
4th). They also wanted a KR/PR to help with general ST assistance.

08 - Note that Nix retired/resigned prior to this draft.

However, he did scout and one of the guys picked up in UDFA was Mike Tolbert, a 5'9 246 lb bruiser (replacing Turner, who left in 08 FA). At first a Fullback in the scheme with Jacob Hester (2008 5-6th Round Proj, drafted in 3rd) and now co-lead back with their 2010 1st rounder.

I wouldn't be surprised if we did look for a bigger bruiser at some point, and perhaps a kick returner to eventually supplant Spiller...
It's a valid point but every GM in the league bolsters his backfield in the draft. Most of the top backs in the league have a complimentary RB behind them.

The finesse backs have a power back behind them and the power backs have a finesse back behind them.