Whitner vs Wilson

[Yasgur's Farm]

Sad that many posters don't understand that Whitner plays SS and Wilson plays FS... And that SS's don't generally have too many INT's.

Sad indeed to see a fanbase, that had a reputation for being very knowledgable, turn into a bowl of pudding like this.

Facts...

Scott filled in for Whitner last season... Wilson mainly filled for Byrd.

NFL.com makes the correct designation of Byrd and Wilson as FS's - Scott and Whitner as SS's... And lists 40 GS's between the 4. Do the math for a 16 game season.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jairusbyrd/gamelogs?id=BYR449897&season=2009 (http://www.nfl.com/players/jairusbyrd/gamelogs?id=BYR449897&season=2009)
http://www.nfl.com/players/bryanscott/gamelogs?id=SCO103424&season=2009 (http://www.nfl.com/players/bryanscott/gamelogs?id=SCO103424&season=2009)
http://www.nfl.com/players/georgewilson/gamelogs?id=WIL694602&season=2009 (http://www.nfl.com/players/georgewilson/gamelogs?id=WIL694602&season=2009)
http://www.nfl.com/players/dontewhitner/gamelogs?id=WHI720119&season=2009 (http://www.nfl.com/players/dontewhitner/gamelogs?id=WHI720119&season=2009)


Week 1 Scott, Whitner (Byrd DNP due to injury)
Week 2 Scott, Whitner (Byrd DNP due to injury)
Week 3 Byrd, Scott, Whitner
Week 4 Byrd, Wilson (Scott and Whitner DNP due to injury)
Week 5 Byrd, Wilson (Scott and Whitner DNP due to injury)
Week 6 Byrd, Whitner (Scott DNP due to injury)
Week 7 Byrd, Wilson (Scott and Whitner DNP due to injury)
Week 8 Byrd, Wilson (Scott and Whitner DNP due to injury)
Week 9 Bye
Week 10 Byrd, Scott, Wilson (Whitner DNP due to injury)
Week 11 Byrd, Scott, Wilson
Week 12 Byrd, Scott, Wilson, Whitner
Week 13 Byrd, Scott, Wilson, Whitner
Week 14 Scott, Wilson, Whitner
Week 15 Byrd, Scott, Wilson
Week 16 Wilson, Whitner (Byrd and Scott DNP due to injury)
Week 17 Wilson (Byrd, Scott and Whitner DNP due to injury)

Whitner DNP 6 weeks due to injury. But he started every game except 2 when he did play... 1 no start was his return after a 4 week injury... The other was when he was trying to stay on the field while nursing a seperated shoulder that eventually got him IR'd.

Scott actually started in place of Byrd until Byrd took the starting roll week 3.

Facts is facts.

Looking deeper into these facts... The only reason Wilson got any starts at SS at all was because, in addition to Whitner being injured, Scott also DNP weeks 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 16 & 17 due to injury.

BTW... I like George Wilson... But I would never consider him to be better than Whitner... I could see him as a legit starting FS however... But not a legit starting SS.

[BertSquirtgum]

whitner sucks man. you know it but just don't want to admit it. i understand not wanting to make another hole but i wouldn't over pay for him.

[OpIv37]

The question isn't whether Whitner is better than Wilson.

The question is whether we could get better play for the same money, or at least get equal play for less money. And the answer is Yes.

[BertSquirtgum]

we definitely could but there is no definite replacement for whitner and if super twitter isn't asking for the world, the bills should give him a fair contract in my opinion, even though he can't cover worth a ****.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Problem is... Whitner doesn't suck, he just doesn't play like a #8 pick... And he's certainly better than the FS people are trying to replace him with.

Also... I do not advocate overpaying for him... Just wanna quelch the cry that a certain FS is better.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I want whitner back for the right price. he is a b type player probably a b-... he can be replaced with wilson or scott, doesnt matter...

[Beebe's Kid]

You think our D is bad now? Subtract Whitner and it is much worse.

How many players do the fans have to see leave after finishing their rookie contracts, only to really star elsewhere?

Experience is not a factor in these discussions, but it sure is a factor in real life. Whitner has progressed the last two years to become a really good football player. He is coming into his prime as a 25 year old.

To draft him, albeit too high, and let him gain experience on our dime, only to let him walk and enjoy the best years of his career elsewhere is what has gotten us to where we are.

I like the safety situation on this team...Byrd and Whitner, with Scott and Wilson as depth. Safety is one position that we don't need an overhaul.

We can't expect Whitner to sign for a song. It's not reallistic, and we definitely cannot expect a replacement to be cheaper. That is not how FA works. To draft another player puts us back at the beginning of the learning curve...again.

[BertSquirtgum]

You think our D is bad now? Subtract Whitner and it is much worse.

you're crazy. whitner is easily replaced.

edit: that being said, i still want him back next year because he knows the system and this team doesn't need anymore holes than it already has.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

You think our D is bad now? Subtract Whitner and it is much worse.

How many players do the fans have to see leave after finishing their rookie contracts, only to really star elsewhere?

Experience is not a factor in these discussions, but it sure is a factor in real life. Whitner has progressed the last two years to become a really good football player. He is coming into his prime as a 25 year old.

To draft him, albeit too high, and let him gain experience on our dime, only to let him walk and enjoy the best years of his career elsewhere is what has gotten us to where we are.

I like the safety situation on this team...Byrd and Whitner, with Scott and Wilson as depth. Safety is one position that we don't need an overhaul.

We can't expect Whitner to sign for a song. It's not reallistic, and we definitely cannot expect a replacement to be cheaper. That is not how FA works. To draft another player puts us back at the beginning of the learning curve...again.

dude we can have a cheaper replacement because whitner is not that good...

either way safety is not a important position, just get me someone who makes the ocassional play ala kurt schulz, henry jones and we will be fine...

[psubills62]

As Corto said: "Safeties are interchangeable."

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Back-to-his-position-roots/44763d74-4c66-4455-a238-3e7fe5d47f81

In another article, CB mentions that Wilson was battling Whitner and others for the strong safety position this summer. Wilson can easily play strong safety, they aren't that different. I have a hard time grasping why you think he's a good FS, but not a good SS. Is there anything in particular you have to back that up?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

i think wilson will be 30 next year... hes never had any serious injuries so i am guessing he can start and be productive for the next 3 seasons until he is 32...

wilson can easily replace whitner.... its a non issue, if whitner comes back for a reasonable price than cool, if not, its no big deal...

[Luisito23]

At least we know that Whitner will always have a job waiting in Draz's farm.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I see a clear distinction between players that are better suited to be FS's or SS's. I think a huge skill that makes a player a better SS than FS is his ability to put a lick on ball carrier. I think Whitner and Scott are clearly better at that than Wilson.

It works both ways... FS's are generally better in coverage and hawking the ball. Clearly Byrd and Wilson are better suited in this category.

All this in spite of Jauron's theory that these positions are interchangable. I've never heard any other so called coach try to make that claim. To me... It's part of what got him run outta town.

Clearly there are certain elite "safeties" that have both sets of skills... We don't have any of them on this team.

As a sort of a counter point... For what it's worth... I've noticed Byrd this year becoming a much more agressive hitter. Perhaps he's got what it takes to work himself up to an elite safety. Time will tell.

[Ickybaluky]

Both Wilson or Whitner are FA, so they probably sign one or the other.

From the sound of it, the Bills were interested in re-signing Whitner, but were unable to come to terms. If they feel he is asking for too much money, they can hold off on negotiations. That is smart. Let him go to FA and find out his value. That doesn't mean they won't re-sign him, just means they have to come to terms on a price.

Maybe when Whitner gets to FA, he will find out that his asking price is too much. In that case, he can still be re-signed in Buffalo. If another team steps up and pays him more than the Bills are willing to, they can move on to plan B (whether that is re-signing Wilson or something else).

It seems premature to criticize the Bills for not signing the guy. They apparently value him differently than Whitner or his agent do. The market will make the ultimate decision. It would be dumb to just pay him more than you think he is worth. Even if you don't think Wilson is as good (you could make an argument either way), it isn't like signing Whitner is the only option. The guy isn't the kind of franchise player who you re-sign at any cost, like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are.

[OpIv37]

You think our D is bad now? Subtract Whitner and it is much worse.

How many players do the fans have to see leave after finishing their rookie contracts, only to really star elsewhere?

Experience is not a factor in these discussions, but it sure is a factor in real life. Whitner has progressed the last two years to become a really good football player. He is coming into his prime as a 25 year old.

To draft him, albeit too high, and let him gain experience on our dime, only to let him walk and enjoy the best years of his career elsewhere is what has gotten us to where we are.

I like the safety situation on this team...Byrd and Whitner, with Scott and Wilson as depth. Safety is one position that we don't need an overhaul.

We can't expect Whitner to sign for a song. It's not reallistic, and we definitely cannot expect a replacement to be cheaper. That is not how FA works. To draft another player puts us back at the beginning of the learning curve...again.

First, the problem with the D isn't Whitner. It's the front 7. At least that's what you Whitner apologists always say when making excuses for him. And if we did lose Whitner, we could easily replace him with someone equal or better.

Second, you are correct in saying that Buffalo made mistakes in letting players walk after their first contract in the past, However, if you think back to those players- Winfield, Clements, Pat Williams, etc- there was never any doubt as to their talent. The only question was the cost to re-sign them. With Whitner, he is not nearly as dominant as any of these other players and there are questions regarding BOTH his ability and the cost. Retaining players isn't good enough- we have to retain the RIGHT players.

[Figster]

Donte Whitner is playing behind a D- line and LB corp that is simply not getting the job done, especially stopping the run. Yet regardless of the sup par play the defense manages to keep this current Bills football team competitive. One of the main reason the Bills are still in games going into the 4th quarter is players like Whitner bending over backwards to aid in run support.

Good grief, the guys all over the place and always seems to be around the ball or making the tackle.

Allowing Donte Whitner to resign elsewhere is taking another step backward and I would hope the Bills GM Buddy Nix would have enough common sense not to make the same mistakes the last few regimes have made in not holding on to the good players we already have in Buffalo.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Word going around is that Whitner is asking for 7mil a season. He wont get it. So in light of that little nugget, anything we think as far as whether he is better than this guy or that guy, no longer matters. He is probably done here after this season. It's Jason Peters 2.0

[OpIv37]

Donte Whitner is playing behind a D- line and LB corp that is simply not getting the job done, especially stopping the run. Yet regardless of the sup par play the defense manages to keep this current Bills football team competitive. One of the main reason the Bills are still in games going into the 4th quarter is players like Whitner bending over backwards to aid in run support.

Good grief, the guys all over the place and always seems to be around the ball or making the tackle.

Allowing Donte Whitner to resign elsewhere is taking another step backward and I would hope the Bills GM Buddy Nix would have enough common sense not to make the same mistakes the last few regimes have made in not holding on to the good players we already have in Buffalo.

Severely flawed logic on this one. The D doesn't keep this team in games. They've given up over 30 points in 7 of 13 games, 6 of which were losses. The majority of the times that the Bills D gave up a respectable amount of points were against struggling O's like Cleveland and Miami.

Allowing Donte Whitner to sign elsewhere will be at least a break-even proposition. Guys like Whitner, Poz, Evans, etc are holdovers from the last regime who never lived up to their potential and don't know how to win. We've already broken ties with several of these guys, notably Schobel and Lynch, but this team has a long way to go before it can start moving forward.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Wilson just got an INT in the Phins game.

[X-Era]

Wilson just got an INT in the Phins game.I l like him. And if he was a strong safety this might actually be a discussion.