The Bills need a franchise quarterback

[BertSquirtgum]

that is all.

[Cleve]

Agreed 110 percent. Fitzpatrick is not a starting-caliber quarterback. Good backup, you can't take that away from him. But starter? uh-uh.

[PromoTheRobot]

that is all.

Brilliant. No other team in the NFL has ever had this strategy. Now tell us which QB is the franchise QB we need.

PTR

[Nighthawk]

Brilliant. No other team in the NFL has ever had this strategy. Now tell us which QB is the franchise QB we need.

PTR

I can tell you that it is not Fitzpatrick...that is for sure.

[BertSquirtgum]

Brilliant. No other team in the NFL has ever had this strategy. Now tell us which QB is the franchise QB we need.

PTR
hey tin man. the bills need a franchise quarterback. are you one of those really smart people that think the Bills should continue moving forward with fitz as their leader? :brilliant:

[Beebe's Kid]

hey tin man. the bills need a franchise quarterback. are you one of those really smart people that think the Bills should continue moving forward with fitz as their leader? :brilliant:

That would just be stupid.

They need to draft Jim Kelly.

[BertSquirtgum]

fitz blows, i can't believe some people still want him as the starter. sure he has his good days but they don't make up for days like today. i want him as our backup. he has shown he can come in and win us games if our guy gets hurt. who is our guy? i don't know, time will tell. hopefully gailey doesn't stick with fitz. it will be tough for me to watch him for another whole year.

[ServoBillieves]

What the **** is a career backup? He's good at holding a clipboard? He excels at looking good without a helmet on? I really, really want to know the definition of career backup...

When the franchise quarterback goes down, this player is good enough to step in and get the job done... uhhhh.. isn't that called a starting quarterback?

I am in no way sticking up for Fitzy after his display today, but what the hell is a "career backup"

[Mr. Pink]

What the **** is a career backup? He's good at holding a clipboard? He excels at looking good without a helmet on? I really, really want to know the definition of career backup...

When the franchise quarterback goes down, this player is good enough to step in and get the job done... uhhhh.. isn't that called a starting quarterback?

I am in no way sticking up for Fitzy after his display today, but what the hell is a "career backup"


A guy who throughout every stop in his NFL career, has initially and primarily been a back up QB.

That is what Fitz has been, here, St Louis and Cincy.

[Saratoga Slim]

A guy who throughout every stop in his NFL career, has initially and primarily been a back up QB.

That is what Fitz has been, here, St Louis and Cincy.

He's John Kitna. A guy that you're really psyched to have around when your franchise guy gets hurt.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

i think we all know fitz will be the starter next year. with a improved team he will give us the best chance to win. with that being said, buffalo will draft one of the top qbs,( newton, mallett, locker, gabbert), and have him sit for 1 year and learn behind fitz. fitz will probably be resigned to a 4 year deal to be our back up...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

i think they are probably going to take mallett or locker, more so mallett...

[Thief]

I am in no way sticking up for Fitzy after his display today, but what the hell is a "career backup"Someone who spends their career as a backup. Sounded pretty obvious.

[DraftBoy]

Ideal scenario right now since we are not getting Luck is to take a mid-round guy and let Fitzy start the first 8-10 weeks next season before handing over the reins to the rookie for a late season try-out.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Ideal scenario right now since we are not getting Luck is to take a mid-round guy and let Fitzy start the first 8-10 weeks next season before handing over the reins to the rookie for a late season try-out.

Why not take ryan mallett with our pick in the 1st and let him sit for 1 year??

if we are out of the race by week 12 let mallett start the last 4 games...

[DraftBoy]

Why not take ryan mallett with our pick in the 1st and let him sit for 1 year??

if we are out of the race by week 12 let mallett start the last 4 games...

Because if we are picking in the top 4 you dont pass on guys like Bowers, Dareus, Green, Peterson, or Quinn just to take a QB whose worth is closer to the later part of round 1, has a massive bust factor, and serious off the field issues.

[Nighthawk]

Because if we are picking in the top 4 you dont pass on guys like Bowers, Dareus, Green, Peterson, or Quinn just to take a QB whose worth is closer to the later part of round 1, has a massive bust factor, and serious off the field issues.

I'm not so sure that Newton isn't worth a top 5 pick...as the draft gets closer, we'll have a better read on it.

[k-oneputt]

Who say's his worth is the later part of rd.1 ? And Brady's worth was the 6th rd.
Anybody can bust. We need a qb and since it's the most important position they might want to think about it.

[T-Long]

I don't see Mallett fitting the way Gailey likes to run his offense. Yes, he is known to adapt to what he has, but if he has a choice of QB between Newton, Locker, or Mallett, he is going to go with Newton or Locker in my opinion. I think Gailey wants a QB that can move around in the pocket and gain yards both through the air and with his feet. I still think Cam Newton sneaks into the Top 5 because the hype is going to be there through the combine and everything else. But DB is right, it is going to be very hard for the Bills to pass up on those defensive players in the top 5.

[Nighthawk]

I don't see Mallett fitting the way Gailey likes to run his offense. Yes, he is known to adapt to what he has, but if he has a choice of QB between Newton, Locker, or Mallett, he is going to go with Newton or Locker in my opinion. I think Gailey wants a QB that can move around in the pocket and gain yards both through the air and with his feet. I still think Cam Newton sneaks into the Top 5 because the hype is going to be there through the combine and everything else. But DB is right, it is going to be very hard for the Bills to pass up on those defensive players in the top 5.

The problem with the DL prospects is that most are one year wonders...correct? That scares me because of the Maybin factor...but, who knows...we'll have a clearer picture the closer to the draft that we get.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Somebody on pregame yesterday was really talking up Gabbert... Said he would be one of the fastest draftboard climbing prospects.

[Figster]

I've never cared to much for RW's meddling in football operations , but this is one instance when I hope old Ralphie steps in and breaks up this Gailey/Fitz love affair.

Myself personally, I don't even want to go into next season with Fitzpatrick as the starter. I've seen enough, Ryan Fitzpatrick in 42 career starts has fumbled the ball 25 times and thrown 42 INT's.

If we can throw Trent Edwards to the curb like a piece of trash then we damn sure better have enough common sense to realize Ryan Fitzpatrick is not the long term answer for the Buffalo Bills.

[DraftBoy]

I'm not so sure that Newton isn't worth a top 5 pick...as the draft gets closer, we'll have a better read on it.

I am without a doubt sure of it. What you see him do on Saturday is completely different from what he will be asked to do on Sunday.

Talking to people down at Auburn, Newton is only running 15-20% of the actual playbook Malzahn has. Not saying its a football IQ question but at what point does he finally get a full playbook? Physically he's the most gifted QB since Vick, and Id argue he's even more gifted, but that only makes up part of what makes a great QB.

[DraftBoy]

Who say's his worth is the later part of rd.1 ? And Brady's worth was the 6th rd.
Anybody can bust. We need a qb and since it's the most important position they might want to think about it.

I do and plenty of other talent evaluators agree. He'll go higher but that's because of the premium QB's bring with them. He's drawing poor comparisons by many and there has been lots of talk about his mental makeup. I havent spoken to him yet, so I cant confirm or deny those reports.

[k-oneputt]

The "talent evaluators" you speak of I don't have much faith in, especially the one's in Buffalo.
I actually think Locker has the most upside but they wouldn't have the balls to draft him that early.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

mallett should be the pick whether its at 2 or 9....

[Nighthawk]

I am without a doubt sure of it. What you see him do on Saturday is completely different from what he will be asked to do on Sunday.

Talking to people down at Auburn, Newton is only running 15-20% of the actual playbook Malzahn has. Not saying its a football IQ question but at what point does he finally get a full playbook? Physically he's the most gifted QB since Vick, and Id argue he's even more gifted, but that only makes up part of what makes a great QB.

Yes, but you cannot ignore upside from a talent like this. He's not going to have to start right away, so he'll have time to sit and learn the playbook. However, I'd like to know why he doesn't have more of a playbook...is he stupid or incapable of learning a more details gameplan? That would not be good.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

i know nothing for sure, just rumors, but i heard cam has serious character issues with people...

[Novacane]

mallett should be the pick whether its at 2 or 9....



No he should not be the pick.

[psubills62]

Yes, but you cannot ignore upside from a talent like this. He's not going to have to start right away, so he'll have time to sit and learn the playbook. However, I'd like to know why he doesn't have more of a playbook...is he stupid or incapable of learning a more details gameplan? That would not be good.

It's not just a matter of sitting down for a year and learning the playbook. I'd hope the playbook changes from year to year, adding things that might work with new personnel, changing things that haven't worked. What happens if we happen to get a new coaching staff or OC? I think it was Jason Campbell who spent ~4 years in Washington with a new offense each year.

It's also a matter of if he can read defenses. He can learn the plays as much as he wants, if he can't read a defense then he'll be screwed in this league.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

No he should not be the pick.


actually yes he should. WE DONT HAVE A QB!!!!!!!!

[psubills62]

actually yes he should. WE DONT HAVE A QB!!!!!!!!

QB is just one of the many things we need. It's unnecessary to blind yourself to every other positional need just because QB is one of them. Mallett will not be worth the pick at 2 or 9, and we should be able to get better talents than him. There are plenty of mid-round guys who could easily be picked up and developed.

[Novacane]

actually yes he should. WE DONT HAVE A QB!!!!!!!!


That does not mean you reach for a guy who is a late rnd 1 pick. If they can trade down and get him I would not have a problem with that.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

That does not mean you reach for a guy who is a late rnd 1 pick. If they can trade down and get him I would not have a problem with that.

Mallett is going top 10 for sure... dont know why you think hes late first...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

especially if luck stays in school

[DraftBoy]

The "talent evaluators" you speak of I don't have much faith in, especially the one's in Buffalo.
I actually think Locker has the most upside but they wouldn't have the balls to draft him that early.

You're free to think whatever you want of talent evaluators.

Locker has the 2nd highest upside behind only Newton.

[Novacane]

Talking to people down at Auburn, Newton is only running 15-20% of the actual playbook Malzahn has. .



That could be because they dominate running that 15-20%. If their opponents can't stop those plays why run anything else? Of course it could also be because his football IQ. Who knows.

[better days]

Yes, but you cannot ignore upside from a talent like this. He's not going to have to start right away, so he'll have time to sit and learn the playbook. However, I'd like to know why he doesn't have more of a playbook...is he stupid or incapable of learning a more details gameplan? That would not be good.

Well Jamarcus Russell also had tremendous talent. You can not ignore lack of character.

[Philagape]

actually yes he should. WE DONT HAVE A QB!!!!!!!!

So they should just take any QB no matter what the bust factor is? Haven't they blown enough first-round picks?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

So they should just take any QB no matter what the bust factor is? Haven't they blown enough first-round picks?

4 of the qbs all have 1st round grades.

mallett
newton
gabbert
locker


they all are really good top college qbs. this is why we passed on a qb last year.

take the best qb out of these.

time to ****ing replace jim kelly , its only been 15 years for christs sake...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

what does it matter anyway. say we draft a top dlineman and he is good. we still wont go anywhere.

say we draft mallett and he busts, we are still taking a qb 3 years later.

either way you have to take a qb at some point...

[better days]

4 of the qbs all have 1st round grades.

mallett
newton
gabbert
locker


they all are really good top college qbs. this is why we passed on a qb last year.

take the best qb out of these.

time to ****ing replace jim kelly , its only been 15 years for christs sake...

Maybe they take the best QB available in the 2nd rnd.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Maybe they take the best QB available in the 2nd rnd.

why wouldnt they do that in the 1st rd. this means you would take a better qb... take the qb...

[DraftBoy]

That could be because they dominate running that 15-20%. If their opponents can't stop those plays why run anything else? Of course it could also be because his football IQ. Who knows.

They would be dominante running only 10% of the playbook, and that's true but that's not important when evaluating Cam's future in the NFL.

Im not saying its his Football IQ, he only had a spring session and fall camp to learn the Malzahn playbook which is one of the most complicated in college. Im just saying he is not a student of the game. He knows his plays and knows who is supposed to be where but he doesnt digest entire playbooks in one sitting like some QB's do.

[PromoTheRobot]

I can tell you that it is not Fitzpatrick...that is for sure.

You didn't answer my question, Einstein. And HurkeyNuts, my post has nothing to do with Fitz. You all act like drafting a "franchise QB" is something only you two Mensa members thought of, like no other NFL GM ever thought to himself "boy, I'd like me a franchise QB!"

Everybody wants a franchise QB! So how many teams actually get one? Who do you pick? The guy Kiper and McShay like? Some guy you saw on TV once? You don't know. No one knows. It's a gamble. So don't act like you are so smart because you think we need a franchise QB.

Also the fact that you two numb nuts are still so hung up on QB after seeing our D get shredded tells me all I need to know about your football IQ.

Would I stick with Fitz? Absolutely. 3,000 yards, 23 TDs in 14 games. Had a bad day yesterday, just like Sanchez and Cutler did against the Pats. We will be a playoff team if we improve on D and shore up our O-line. The last thing we need to do is set the Bills back 3 years on a rookie QB gamble.

PTR

[Philagape]

4 of the qbs all have 1st round grades.

mallett
newton
gabbert
locker


they all are really good top college qbs. this is why we passed on a qb last year.

take the best qb out of these.

time to ****ing replace jim kelly , its only been 15 years for christs sake...

Not if there's a better player to be had at another position of need, which there are many. And by better I mean lower bust risk. What has killed this team is drafting busts in the first round, and if you reach by targeting just one position, you're asking for another bust.

[BertSquirtgum]

You didn't answer my question, Einstein. And HurkeyNuts, my post has nothing to do with Fitz. You all act like drafting a "franchise QB" is something only you two Mensa members thought of, like no other NFL GM ever thought to himself "boy, I'd like me a franchise QB!"

Everybody wants a franchise QB! So how many teams actually get one? Who do you pick? The guy Kiper and McShay like? Some guy you saw on TV once? You don't know. No one knows. It's a gamble. So don't act like you are so smart because you think we need a franchise QB.

Also the fact that you two numb nuts are still so hung up on QB after seeing our D get shredded tells me all I need to know about your football IQ.

Would I stick with Fitz? Absolutely. 3,000 yards, 23 TDs in 14 games. Had a bad day yesterday, just like Sanchez and Cutler did against the Pats. We will be a playoff team if we improve on D and shore up our O-line. The last thing we need to do is set the Bills back 3 years on a rookie QB gamble.

PTR

who was "acting smart" brainless? if you don't think we need a better starting quarterback then there is no hope for you in this world and i feel bad for you.

i'm so sick of these ******s saying he had a bad day this, bad day that, bad day. why does he always have a bad day against good teams? because he isn't good enough to beat them.

[PromoTheRobot]

who was "acting smart" brainless? if you don't think we need a better starting quarterback then there is no hope for you in this world and i feel bad for you.

i'm so sick of these ******s saying he had a bad day this, bad day that, bad day. why does he always have a bad day against good teams? because he isn't good enough to beat them.

And if you ran a team you would be drafting a QB every year looking for someone to "beat the good teams" and never realize that there are 24 other positions on a football team and they all contribute to victories. DUHHHHHH!

PTR

[justasportsfan]

The only thing Fitz has earned IMO is the job to hold the fort down until we find a franchise qb. If he grows to become one, fine, but he isn't at this point .

[ServoBillieves]

Someone who spends their career as a backup. Sounded pretty obvious.

He has started for 2 years. That's not a backup.

[Nighthawk]

You didn't answer my question, Einstein. And HurkeyNuts, my post has nothing to do with Fitz. You all act like drafting a "franchise QB" is something only you two Mensa members thought of, like no other NFL GM ever thought to himself "boy, I'd like me a franchise QB!"

Everybody wants a franchise QB! So how many teams actually get one? Who do you pick? The guy Kiper and McShay like? Some guy you saw on TV once? You don't know. No one knows. It's a gamble. So don't act like you are so smart because you think we need a franchise QB.

Also the fact that you two numb nuts are still so hung up on QB after seeing our D get shredded tells me all I need to know about your football IQ.

Would I stick with Fitz? Absolutely. 3,000 yards, 23 TDs in 14 games. Had a bad day yesterday, just like Sanchez and Cutler did against the Pats. We will be a playoff team if we improve on D and shore up our O-line. The last thing we need to do is set the Bills back 3 years on a rookie QB gamble.

PTR

You are absolutely laughable. Your philosophy is to stop looking for and drafting QB's because they are hard to find...right? Well, I can tell you one thing, if you never pick a guy in the draft, then you never will have a potential franchise QB to groom. Hey, dumbass, when have I ever said we don't need to draft defense to help that side of the ball? Oh yeah, you're so ignorant that you just read what you want and ignore everything else. Good job...:brilliant:

[Nighthawk]

And if you ran a team you would be drafting a QB every year looking for someone to "beat the good teams" and never realize that there are 24 other positions on a football team and they all contribute to victories. DUHHHHHH!

PTR

Why do you sign all of your posts with "PTR"? What a tool!

[EDS]

You didn't answer my question, Einstein. And HurkeyNuts, my post has nothing to do with Fitz. You all act like drafting a "franchise QB" is something only you two Mensa members thought of, like no other NFL GM ever thought to himself "boy, I'd like me a franchise QB!"

Everybody wants a franchise QB! So how many teams actually get one? Who do you pick? The guy Kiper and McShay like? Some guy you saw on TV once? You don't know. No one knows. It's a gamble. So don't act like you are so smart because you think we need a franchise QB.

Also the fact that you two numb nuts are still so hung up on QB after seeing our D get shredded tells me all I need to know about your football IQ.

Would I stick with Fitz? Absolutely. 3,000 yards, 23 TDs in 14 games. Had a bad day yesterday, just like Sanchez and Cutler did against the Pats. We will be a playoff team if we improve on D and shore up our O-line. The last thing we need to do is set the Bills back 3 years on a rookie QB gamble.

PTR

Is it easy to fix the D? When was the last defensive oriented that won a super bowl without a hall of fame talent leading the defense (I am thinking back to the Giants with Strahan and the Ravens with Lewis, Tampa with Sapp and Brooks)?

Obviously the Bills do not have a hall of fame talent on defense. Absent a pro bowl caliber QB (i.e., the Saints with Brees, Colts with Manning and Pats with Brady), the offense is unlikely to lead the way.

[SABURZFAN]

that is all.


they need more than just a franchise QB. :baghead:

[BertSquirtgum]

they need more than just a franchise QB. :baghead:

indeed they do but if one day they happen to stumble into a franchise worthy quarterback then i will be one of the happiest mother ****ers on this eath.

[Joe Fo Sho]

indeed they do but if one day they happen to stumble into a franchise worthy quarterback then i will be one of the happiest mother ****ers on this eath.

The Bills need a QB
The Bills need a RT.
The Bills need a TE
The Bills need a DT.
The Bills need an ILB.
The Bills need an OLB.
The Bills need a Corner.
The Bills need a Safety.

Once we have those I'll be happy. I don't necessarily think the Bills will get a QB before the other needs. I honestly don't care which one they get first, as long as they are worthy of the pick. If we take a QB for the sake of taking a QB and he turns into a Losman, we've set the franchise back another 5 effing years.

This is a general question towards the Billszone, not towards you necessarily Hurkey:

Where are the people that think Fitzpatrick is the answer?

I haven't heard a single person say that Fitz is all we need and that we don't need to look any further for a QB. The only thing I've heard people say, myself included, is that Fitz is capable of holding down the fort while we fill other positions of need. I'd be surprised if 2 people answer this question and say they feel Fitzpatrick needs no further evaluation to be our Franchise Quarterback.

[YardRat]

Games are won and lost in the trenches...Draft big, early. Concentrate on defense. If a 'franchise' QB falls in our lap in later rounds, take the chance then.

[Nighthawk]

Games are won and lost in the trenches...Draft big, early. Concentrate on defense. If a 'franchise' QB falls in our lap in later rounds, take the chance then.

Wrong...games are won at the QB position...it's been proven time and time again.

[The Jokeman]

what does it matter anyway. say we draft a top dlineman and he is good. we still wont go anywhere.

say we draft mallett and he busts, we are still taking a qb 3 years later.

either way you have to take a qb at some point...
Exactly build the franchise first and make the QB one of the last parts. Again was Jim Kelly the sole reason for the Bills turn around? or was it getting guys like Bruce Smith, Darryl Talley Andre Reed before him? and guys like Wil Wolford, Kent Hull Cornelius Bennett, Shane Conlan and Thurman Thomas after him? To me you build the talent on the team and make your QB one of the final pieces. So to me the 2011 draft should be focused on finding a pass rusher on D we severely lack Robert Quinn), re-sign guys like Poz, Merriman and find a true starting caliber ILB in UFA, one guy I like for the inside be Stephen Cooper of the Chargers. I'm also in favor of re-signing Whitner than letting him go. As no guarantee he's replacement will be as good/bad. In Round 2 we might be looking for a CB if let Drayton Florence walk and questions about Terrence McGee's long term status with the team or maybe trade down and look for a RT prospect unless you want to take a TE here but in following Gailey's history outside his only season with Tony Gonzalez he doesn't look to give his TEs many catches. Round 3 to me a spot where you can think QB but also a spot where might want to continue to build D depth or maybe grab a RT if didn't get one sooner or in free agency. With two picks in Round 4 this is where I look for a QB to groom perhaps a guy like Colin Kaepernick. Just my two cents at and early look at the 2011 offseason.

[X-Era]

Exactly build the franchise first and make the QB one of the last parts. Again was Jim Kelly the sole reason for the Bills turn around? or was it getting guys like Bruce Smith, Darryl Talley Andre Reed before him? and guys like Wil Wolford, Kent Hull Cornelius Bennett, Shane Conlan and Thurman Thomas after him? To me you build the talent on the team and make your QB one of the final pieces. So to me the 2011 draft should be focused on finding a pass rusher on D we severely lack Robert Quinn), re-sign guys like Poz, Merriman and find a true starting caliber ILB in UFA, one guy I like for the inside be Stephen Cooper of the Chargers. I'm also in favor of re-signing Whitner than letting him go. As no guarantee he's replacement will be as good/bad. In Round 2 we might be looking for a CB if let Drayton Florence walk and questions about Terrence McGee's long term status with the team or maybe trade down and look for a RT prospect unless you want to take a TE here but in following Gailey's history outside his only season with Tony Gonzalez he doesn't look to give his TEs many catches. Round 3 to me a spot where you can think QB but also a spot where might want to continue to build D depth or maybe grab a RT if didn't get one sooner or in free agency. With two picks in Round 4 this is where I look for a QB to groom perhaps a guy like Colin Kaepernick. Just my two cents at and early look at the 2011 offseason.The problem I see is that Chan will be waiting until his 3rd draft after two full seasons of not being in the playoffs before getting a guy that may be the answer. Most HC's have a 3 year leash. Can Chan afford to put his eggs in the Fitz basket and/or wait another year and possibly have a rookie QB starting in his last year to make the playoffs?

[ServoBillieves]

I was trying to prove that good QB's can come from anywhere in the draft... but damn, these past few have been brutally awful.

[The Jokeman]

The problem I see is that Chan will be waiting until his 3rd draft after two full seasons of not being in the playoffs before getting a guy that may be the answer. Most HC's have a 3 year leash. Can Chan afford to put his eggs in the Fitz basket and/or wait another year and possibly have a rookie QB starting in his last year to make the playoffs?
I think Chan's shown he can make a half way decent offense even with the likes of Fitzpatrick or Tyler Thigpen or Jay Fielder or Kordell Stewart at QB. I think we need to shore up the D and keep the O on pace of what it's done most of the season to improve this team in 2011. I'm not saying Fitzpatrick will ever lead us to a Super Bowl but think he's the best thing for the team's short term goal of to improve and maybe reach 10 wins in the next two seasons.

[X-Era]

I think Chan's shown he can make a half way decent offense even with the likes of Fitzpatrick or Tyler Thigpen or Jay Fielder or Kordell Stewart at QB. I think we need to shore up the D and keep the O on pace of what it's done most of the season to improve this team in 2011. I'm not saying Fitzpatrick will ever lead us to a Super Bowl but think he's the best thing for the team's short term goal of to improve and maybe reach 10 wins in the next two seasons.My only point is that 2 wins better is a 6 win or 7 win team, and that even if we are 4 wins better with as many as 9 wins, we still probably aren't a playoff team. Chan will know this.

Winning a few more games behind Fitz will not allow Gailey to keep his job, and a QB plays a major part in that.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I think Chan's shown he can make a half way decent offense even with the likes of Fitzpatrick or Tyler Thigpen or Jay Fielder or Kordell Stewart at QB. I think we need to shore up the D and keep the O on pace of what it's done most of the season to improve this team in 2011. I'm not saying Fitzpatrick will ever lead us to a Super Bowl but think he's the best thing for the team's short term goal of to improve and maybe reach 10 wins in the next two seasons.

by short term if you mean we draft a qb in the 1st round, let fitz start next year and then let the qb we draft take over in 2012, then yes i agree

[PromoTheRobot]

indeed they do but if one day they happen to stumble into a franchise worthy quarterback then i will be one of the happiest mother ****ers on this eath.

That will never happen because you will never wait long enough for any QB, franchise or otherwise, to develop. If a QB doesn't win a Super Bowl by pre-season you will be leading the cry to draft the next QB hype coming out of college.

PTR

[The Jokeman]

by short term if you mean we draft a qb in the 1st round, let fitz start next year and then let the qb we draft take over in 2012, then yes i agree
We have more then a hole at QB, that's my whole point in building the franchise before the QB. As to me we get the best collection of players outside of QB and see if it improves our W/L with Fitz still in at QB. If it doesn't then take a QB in 2013 in the 1st Round and hope he shows to be as good as Marc Sanchez.

[Nighthawk]

We have more then a hole at QB, that's my whole point in building the franchise before the QB. As to me we get the best collection of players outside of QB and see if it improves our W/L with Fitz still in at QB. If it doesn't then take a QB in 2013 in the 1st Round and hope he shows to be as good as Marc Sanchez.

Ehh, it doesn't matter what type of team you have if you don't have an elite QB. QB is hands-down the most important piece to the puzzle...there is no argument.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

We have more then a hole at QB, that's my whole point in building the franchise before the QB. As to me we get the best collection of players outside of QB and see if it improves our W/L with Fitz still in at QB. If it doesn't then take a QB in 2013 in the 1st Round and hope he shows to be as good as Marc Sanchez.

do you realize how many holes the rams had, they still took bradford, instead of suh...

take the qb

[YardRat]

Wrong...games are won at the QB position...it's been proven time and time again.

Please.

Dominate both sides of the line of scrimmage and the likes of Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler are good enough QB's to win championships.

[Joe Fo Sho]

do you realize how many holes the rams had, they still took bradford, instead of suh...

take the qb

Yeah...
And the Browns too Tim Couch and Brady Quinn.
And the Chargers took Ryan Leaf.
And the Raiders took Jamarcus Russell.
And the Seahawks took Rick Mirer.
And the Lions took Joey Harrington.
And the Bengals took Akili Smith.
And the Bills took Losman.
And the Texans took David Carr.
And the Cardinals took Matt Leinart.
And the Niners took Alex Smith.
And the Bears took McCown.

We can go back and forth all friggin day with this nonsense.

[Figster]

Ehh, it doesn't matter what type of team you have if you don't have an elite QB. QB is hands-down the most important piece to the puzzle...there is no argument.


Not only that Nighthawk, Chan Gailey is a QB guru and it makes sense to play to our strengths which is getting Gailey the best signal caller available. If Gailey works wonders with the lesser talented QB's in the league, just think what he can do with one of the better QB's in the league.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Yeah...
And the Browns too Tim Couch and Brady Quinn.
And the Chargers took Ryan Leaf.
And the Raiders took Jamarcus Russell.
And the Seahawks took Rick Mirer.
And the Lions took Joey Harrington.
And the Bengals took Akili Smith.
And the Bills took Losman.
And the Texans took David Carr.
And the Cardinals took Matt Leinart.
And the Niners took Alex Smith.
And the Bears took McCown.

We can go back and forth all friggin day with this nonsense.

and the cowboys took aikman
dolphins took marino
bills took kelly
lions took stafford
falcons took ryan
falcons took vick
steelers took bradshaw
packers traded a 1st for farve
pats took bledsoe
colts took manning
giants took manning
chargers took rivers

you take the qb in the 1st if you need one. any player anywhere can bust, doesnt mean you dont take a chance, if you dont even try then you will not win most likely... TAKE THE QB!!!!!!!!

[Joe Fo Sho]

and the cowboys took aikman
dolphins took marino
bills took kelly
lions took stafford
falcons took ryan
falcons took vick
steelers took bradshaw
packers traded a 1st for farve
pats took bledsoe
colts took manning
giants took manning
chargers took rivers

you take the qb in the 1st if you need one. any player anywhere can bust, doesnt mean you dont take a chance, if you dont even try then you will not win most likely... TAKE THE QB!!!!!!!!

Late round/Undrafted/Non-1st round QBs...

Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Joe Montana
Brad Johnson
Kurt Warner
Marc Bulger
Mark Brunell
Matt Schaub

Didn't I already say we could go back and forth with this all day?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Late round/Undrafted/Non-1st round QBs...

Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Joe Montana
Brad Johnson
Kurt Warner
Marc Bulger
Mark Brunell
Matt Schaub

Didn't I already say we could go back and forth with this all day?

its already been proven that there is obviously a way higher success rate with 1st round qbs, in particular top 10 ,

if you do not want to take one of the top 5 qbs this year, then fine. we need to solve the qb spot first, if not then gailey will be fired in 3-4 years. and then we start over...

[Joe Fo Sho]

its already been proven that there is obviously a way higher success rate with 1st round qbs, in particular top 10 ,

if you do not want to take one of the top 5 qbs this year, then fine. we need to solve the qb spot first, if not then gailey will be fired in 3-4 years. and then we start over...

We can get one of the top 5 QBs in the 3rd round.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

We can get one of the top 5 QBs in the 3rd round.

ummmm, no....

[Joe Fo Sho]

ummmm, no....

Well there won't be 5 qbs taken in the 1st round.

[ZAZusmc03]

Well there won't be 5 qbs taken in the 1st round.

I'm willing to put all my zbs on a bet that s
ays 5 wont be taken in 1st round.

[YardRat]

and the cowboys took aikman
dolphins took marino
bills took kelly
lions took stafford
falcons took ryan
falcons took vick
steelers took bradshaw
packers traded a 1st for farve
pats took bledsoe
colts took manning
giants took manning
chargers took rivers

you take the qb in the 1st if you need one. any player anywhere can bust, doesnt mean you dont take a chance, if you dont even try then you will not win most likely... TAKE THE QB!!!!!!!!

Aikman - had a great defense, offensive line, and Emmit Smith.
Marino - if you want a guy who doesn't know RB's exist, sets regular season records, but gets owned in the playoffs.
Kelly - HOFers on both sides of the ball certainly didn't hurt. Bruce Smith played what? DE? One of the best o-lines we ever had, along with the mid-60's and the Electric Co.
Stafford - Let's see in a couple of seasons.
Ryan - Their defense is athletic, and offense revolves around Turner and the run.
Vick-The Eagles were able to swap out McNabb (who was pretty successful himself), and not miss a beat...What's that tell you?
Bradshaw-See Aikman, sub Harris for Smith.
Favre-great regular seasons, playoff choker. White-led defense.
Bledsoe-LOL.
Manning-See Favre, substitute Freeney for White. D dominated in playoffs.
Manning--Defense.
Rivers-What the hell have the Chargers really won?

Go through all of those guys, especially those that have had success, and add in others like Dilfer, Hostetler, Starr, Griese, Williams, Johnson et al and you'll probably find that the Super Bowl winners had very good to great offensive and defensive lines, and most had excellent defenses in general.

That's the common thread to championships. Run, and stop the run. How many SB's did Elway win without a strong running game again? Oh yeah...Zero.

[The Jokeman]

do you realize how many holes the rams had, they still took bradford, instead of suh...

take the qb
Look closer at the Rams. They already had an established Pro Bowl RB in Steven Jackson. Before getting Bradford they got guys like Justin Smith and Chris Long. Bradford alone didn't lead to their turn around. Again the more pieces you give a QB the better chance he has to win. Again what comes first in the term franchise QB? Franchise. It's why the Bills were superior to the Dolphins in the 90s. Not because Kelly was better than Marino but because we had a better surrounding cast. Yet it's also why we lost in the Super Bowls because the Giants, Redskins and Cowboys had better teams. Or more specifically better D's that kept Kelly and Co. In check.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Aikman - had a great defense, offensive line, and Emmit Smith.
Marino - if you want a guy who doesn't know RB's exist, sets regular season records, but gets owned in the playoffs.
Kelly - HOFers on both sides of the ball certainly didn't hurt. Bruce Smith played what? DE? One of the best o-lines we ever had, along with the mid-60's and the Electric Co.
Stafford - Let's see in a couple of seasons.
Ryan - Their defense is athletic, and offense revolves around Turner and the run.
Vick-The Eagles were able to swap out McNabb (who was pretty successful himself), and not miss a beat...What's that tell you?
Bradshaw-See Aikman, sub Harris for Smith.
Favre-great regular seasons, playoff choker. White-led defense.
Bledsoe-LOL.
Manning-See Favre, substitute Freeney for White. D dominated in playoffs.
Manning--Defense.
Rivers-What the hell have the Chargers really won?

Go through all of those guys, especially those that have had success, and add in others like Dilfer, Hostetler, Starr, Griese, Williams, Johnson et al and you'll probably find that the Super Bowl winners had very good to great offensive and defensive lines, and most had excellent defenses in general.

That's the common thread to championships. Run, and stop the run. How many SB's did Elway win without a strong running game again? Oh yeah...Zero.

You and you're craaaaaazy logic...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Aikman - had a great defense, offensive line, and Emmit Smith.
Marino - if you want a guy who doesn't know RB's exist, sets regular season records, but gets owned in the playoffs.
Kelly - HOFers on both sides of the ball certainly didn't hurt. Bruce Smith played what? DE? One of the best o-lines we ever had, along with the mid-60's and the Electric Co.
Stafford - Let's see in a couple of seasons.
Ryan - Their defense is athletic, and offense revolves around Turner and the run.
Vick-The Eagles were able to swap out McNabb (who was pretty successful himself), and not miss a beat...What's that tell you?
Bradshaw-See Aikman, sub Harris for Smith.
Favre-great regular seasons, playoff choker. White-led defense.
Bledsoe-LOL.
Manning-See Favre, substitute Freeney for White. D dominated in playoffs.
Manning--Defense.
Rivers-What the hell have the Chargers really won?

Go through all of those guys, especially those that have had success, and add in others like Dilfer, Hostetler, Starr, Griese, Williams, Johnson et al and you'll probably find that the Super Bowl winners had very good to great offensive and defensive lines, and most had excellent defenses in general.

That's the common thread to championships. Run, and stop the run. How many SB's did Elway win without a strong running game again? Oh yeah...Zero.


you are missing the point. all those teams took the qb first. they started with the qb, not the other way around. and if you take away any of those qbs , they dont win anything, but if you take away a dlineman here a wr there, they still get far...

[BertSquirtgum]

That will never happen because you will never wait long enough for any QB, franchise or otherwise, to develop. If a QB doesn't win a Super Bowl by pre-season you will be leading the cry to draft the next QB hype coming out of college.

PTR

there's no need to add any stupidity to my thread. get out and don't come back.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

lets look at the past 20 superbowl winning teams and their qbs

90 hostetler
91 rypien
92 aikman
93 aikman
94 young
95 aikman
96 farve
97 elway
98 elway
99 warner
00 dilfer
01 brady
02 johnson
03 brady
04 brady
05 roethlisberger
06 manning
07 e manning
08 roethlisberger
09 brees
10- take a guess

3 out of 20 have been good qbs but nothing great, a fitz type.

ill take my chances on a franchise qb....

[psubills62]

do you realize how many holes the rams had, they still took bradford, instead of suh...

take the qb

Bradford was a 100x better prospect than anyone in the current draft outside of Luck.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Bradford was a 100x better prospect than anyone in the current draft outside of Luck.

if buffalo picks 2 and luck doesnt come out but gabbert does

we have the choice of taking newton, mallett, gabbert, locker...

im sure at least 2 of them will be considered top franchise caliber qbs. if we pass on them than i guarantee you gailey will lose his job in 3-4 years. so will nix, etc etc etc and we start over etc etc etc.

[psubills62]

if buffalo picks 2 and luck doesnt come out but gabbert does

we have the choice of taking newton, mallett, gabbert, locker...

im sure at least 2 of them will be considered top franchise caliber qbs. if we pass on them than i guarantee you gailey will lose his job in 3-4 years. so will nix, etc etc etc and we start over etc etc etc.

I would almost be surprised if one of Locker/Gabbert wasn't around in the second round. They are not even close to the prospects you think they are.

Gailey and Nix may lose their jobs in 3-4 years, but if they do it won't be because they passed on one of those guys in the top 5 this coming draft.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I would almost be surprised if one of Locker/Gabbert wasn't around in the second round. They are not even close to the prospects you think they are.

Gailey and Nix may lose their jobs in 3-4 years, but if they do it won't be because they passed on one of those guys in the top 5 this coming draft.

then who the hell is our qb? fitz?????

[The Natrix]

I'm jumping on the Cam Newton Bandwagon. Ideally Fitz stays on the team. Just sayin'.

[psubills62]

then who the hell is our qb? fitz?????

For now, possibly. It's not like we're expecting to go to the Super Bowl next year.

I expect Nix and co. to take a mid-round QB (2nd-5th rounds) this year, try to develop him. If they are in a position to get a stud in the years after this coming draft, they should and hopefully will do so. I don't see any studs outside of (possibly) Luck this year. Just a lot of guys who need a lot of work.

QB is obviously an urgent need. However, filling it with the wrong guy is even worse than not attempting to address it. Selecting a guy with a huge amount of risk in the top 5 is essentially making an investment in that guy for the next 4-5 years. Almost impossible to go back and investing 50-60 million in a guy who doesn't turn out can truly cripple a franchise. I don't like investing 50-60 million in any rookie, but if we're going to do it, might as well get someone who is safer and more talented than one of the risky guys you keep talking about.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

For now, possibly. It's not like we're expecting to go to the Super Bowl next year.

I expect Nix and co. to take a mid-round QB (2nd-5th rounds) this year, try to develop him. If they are in a position to get a stud in the years after this coming draft, they should and hopefully will do so. I don't see any studs outside of (possibly) Luck this year. Just a lot of guys who need a lot of work.

QB is obviously an urgent need. However, filling it with the wrong guy is even worse than not attempting to address it. Selecting a guy with a huge amount of risk in the top 5 is essentially making an investment in that guy for the next 4-5 years. Almost impossible to go back and investing 50-60 million in a guy who doesn't turn out can truly cripple a franchise. I don't like investing 50-60 million in any rookie, but if we're going to do it, might as well get someone who is safer and more talented than one of the risky guys you keep talking about.

1 with the new cba there are not going to be crazy rookie contracts.
2 blaine gabbert seems like the closest thing to luck, to pass on him would be somewhat crazy...
3 i wouldnt mind taking a qb in rd 2. i just dont think any of those top 5 will be there. so we would have to trade up and give up more picks...
4 if they dont take a qb this year, then they will obviously get somewhat better say 6-10/9-7 , i dont think they will get a chance again at a top 5 pick... like i said looking at walterfootball, i see all top 5 qbs gone by 20. if we are at pick 2 and say gabbert is there, we need to take him, or mallett, locker. either way we need to take advantage of the really good qbs coming out this year...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

btw im all for fitz starting next year w/a better team and if he proves everyone wrong then fine. but until then we need to take a qb. the spot is not where it needs to be.

[psubills62]

1 with the new cba there are not going to be crazy rookie contracts.
2 blaine gabbert seems like the closest thing to luck, to pass on him would be somewhat crazy...
3 i wouldnt mind taking a qb in rd 2. i just dont think any of those top 5 will be there. so we would have to trade up and give up more picks...
4 if they dont take a qb this year, then they will obviously get somewhat better say 6-10/9-7 , i dont think they will get a chance again at a top 5 pick... like i said looking at walterfootball, i see all top 5 qbs gone by 20. if we are at pick 2 and say gabbert is there, we need to take him, or mallett, locker. either way we need to take advantage of the really good qbs coming out this year...

1. May not be crazy, but they'll probably still be significant. Unfortunately, the owners seem to think things like 18-game seasons are more important than rookie contracts.

2. Gabbert? No way he's worth a top 5 pick. He's not even close to Luck. I'd love to take him in the 2nd if he enters the draft, but not in the first where we're at.

3. One of the top 5 guys you're discussing should be there. Like I said before, I'd be surprised if someone like Gabbert/Locker wasn't there. I have no problem taking them with a 2nd round pick. Taking them with a top 5 pick, though, is absolutely insane.

4. Not every franchise QB needs to be drafted in the top 5, and it's not impossible to trade up to get a guy they really like.

[acehole]

that is all.

I think we need another QB as we are thin at the position...I was hoping to see more of the other two this year to see what we have but the Bills never do what I want or we would of had Sidney Rice and H Negata...and M Turner....but what do I know?

I do think this team has rallied around Fitz somewhat so don't be surprised if we take BPA in the draft if there is nobody the bills are in love with.

PS HurkeyNuts this is your most brilliant post full of insight and foresight ...a credit to public schooling.

[Bill Cody]

I'm jumping on the Cam Newton Bandwagon. Ideally Fitz stays on the team. Just sayin'.

As hard as it is for me to say this, I agree with you. I would prefer Luck but I would take Newton at 4. It's hard for me to say because I've always been opposed to running QB's. They get hurt, the pro game is much different and in the end you have to be a great passer first and foremost. but I've seen Newton play twice this year against Georgia and Alabama and some things jump out you. They include:

1) the kid is huge, maybe 6'6" and 260 pounds.
2) he has VERY quick feet
3) I was surprised at both his arm strength and his accuracy.
4) His confidence/leadership appears to be off the charts, think Tim Tebow but a better athlete.

Newton is still pretty raw and I would want to make sure he's not another Vince Young dumb as a bag full of rocks type and that worries me some. But if we did our due dilligence and he checks out I'm on board. I think it will take a full year on the bench before Newton is ready to play in the league but really, so what?

[Cleve]

there's no need to add any stupidity to my thread. get out and don't come back.
LOL - Tom Petty says it perfectly.....

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[Figster]

As hard as it is for me to say this, I agree with you. I would prefer Luck but I would take Newton at 4. It's hard for me to say because I've always been opposed to running QB's. They get hurt, the pro game is much different and in the end you have to be a great passer first and foremost. but I've seen Newton play twice this year against Georgia and Alabama and some things jump out you. They include:

1) the kid is huge, maybe 6'6" and 260 pounds.
2) he has VERY quick feet
3) I was surprised at both his arm strength and his accuracy.
4) His confidence/leadership appears to be off the charts, think Tim Tebow but a better athlete.

Newton is still pretty raw and I would want to make sure he's not another Vince Young dumb as a bag full of rocks type and that worries me some. But if we did our due dilligence and he checks out I'm on board. I think it will take a full year on the bench before Newton is ready to play in the league but really, so what?
I agree Local Ralph, you don't have to Sell me on Cameron Newton because the mans got it all. Cam Newton is not only huge and fast, he's very hard to tackle and runs right through defenders. Slap a strong, accurate arm on him and you have a nasty one manned weapon to defend against if you're the opposing defense. Big Ben and Bo Jackson rolled into one, mercy!!!:drool2:

Chan Gailey could mold Cam Newton into one of the best QB's this league has ever seen.

Note: I do however believe we could start using Cam Newton in his rookie year by peppering him in much like Andy Reid used Mike Vick on his first year back.

[Bill Cody]

I agree Local Ralph, you don't have to Sell me on Cameron Newton because the mans got it all. Cam Newton is not only huge and fast, he's very hard to tackle and runs right through defenders. Slap a strong, accurate arm on him and you have a nasty one manned weapon to defend against if you're the opposing defense. Big Ben and Bo Jackson rolled into one, mercy!!!:drool2:

Chan Gailey could mold Cam Newton into one of the best QB's this league has ever seen.

Note: I do however believe we could start using Cam Newton in his rookie year by peppering him in much like Andy Reid used Mike Vick on his first year back.

I like your enthusiasm but I'm not ready to put him into Canton yet. I just know Newton has some pretty impressive things to offer and I'd be looking at him hard. One thing we know for sure is he would not be dull.