The Bills Need A Franchise Run Defense

[Night Train]

..If they ever expect to win more than 5 games in a season..

THAT...is all..

[Novacane]

no argument there. Question is how many new players is it going to take to get there.

[Mr. Pink]

They didn't have a good rush defense when Jauron was here and won 7 games.

[YardRat]

no argument there. Question is how many new players is it going to take to get there.

Seven.

Oh wait...That's just the LBers...

[ServoBillieves]

We need better play calling. How many ****ing receivers/tight ends have we seen WIDE OPEN in the flats this season? Dink and dunk passes kill this team, and as for the run d... haha it's almost unfixable within a year. We need bigger bodies for push up front, and we need competent hole readers.

[Nighthawk]

no argument there. Question is how many new players is it going to take to get there.

Exactly...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

correct me if im wrong but didnt the saints and colts have bottom 1/3 run d last year?

we need a qb

[Jaybird]

been mentioning it for years on this board. We won't be a winning team untill we stop the run!!

[Night Train]

Seven.

Oh wait...That's just the LBers...

Which is why I think this team should return to a full time 4-3 D.

[DraftBoy]

Which is why I think this team should return to a full time 4-3 D.

Still need the same number of players imo.

We have horrid LB's in general with a couple of potential players. Our line is just not good overall and our DB may be the weakest unit of all.

3-4, 4-3, 3-3-5, 5-2, or the 46 isn't going help this craptastic unit.

[OpIv37]

..If they ever expect to win more than 5 games in a season..

THAT...is all..

we had one.

Then we cut Sam Adams and let Takeo Spikes, London Fletcher and most importantly, Pat Williams walk.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

our LBS are horrible...

[Extremebillsfan247]

They didn't have a good rush defence when Jauron was here and won 7 games.by way of comparison, his rush defence was tremendously superior to this teams. Enter your offensive minded head coach, defences then get neglected quite often, and their performance suffers. I don't expect a drastic improvement in that department with Gailey as a HC, but I do agree with the OP that it is sorely needed here. Cold weather teams traditionally do better with superior defences as opposed to offences. Of course the good coaches ie (Belichick) find the balance in both. JMO

[Mr. Pink]

by way of comparison, his rush defence was tremendously superior to this teams. Enter your offensive minded head coach, defences then get neglected quite often, and their performance suffers. I don't expect a drastic improvement in that department with Gailey as a HC, but I do agree with the OP that it is sorely needed here. Cold weather teams traditionally do better with superior defences as opposed to offences. Of course the good coaches ie (Belichick) find the balance in both. JMO


We gave up on average 2100 yards rushing each year while Jauron was here.

This year we're at 2438 yards rushing allowed.

So yes, we were a little better under Jauron than now but not tremendously superior.

By comparison last year we allowed 2501 yards rushing and won 6 games.

Is 6 wins or 7 wins good enough? Absolutely not, but I was just trying to show that the original posters point wasn't valid.

[Night Train]

Yes, 6 wins is far better than 4..and still 4 games short of a wild card most years. :rolleyes:

I agree with DB's points above and several others. My thoughts on wanting the 4-3 is that Kyle Williams would be far better as a 4-3 DT. Alex Carrington showed something late this season and needs to play a full season to see if he's got it. Spencer Johnson belongs as a backup and the coaches should see Stroud has hit the wall. Dwan Edwards ? Don't know.

So a big DT to play next to Williams (with Troup rotating in) and a DE who can bring the heat could be found quicker than 2-3 LB's in a 3-4. Agreed ? Aside from Kelsay (yuck), The LB's are currently Moats ( promising ), Coleman ( who I liked in limited duty before getting hurt ) Batten coming back and a pick or 2 in the midlle rounds. All those Vet FA LB's who were cut from other teams were outright terrible this season. That idea bombed.

The Bills ran the 4-3 heavily the 2nd half of the season. The run Defense was not perfect by any stretch but showed some promise, unlike the 3-4 where Williams was getting double teamed and the LB's behind him were not physical enough to do much of anything. Teams just crushed us.

Would anyone be upset if our first 2 picks were a Big DT and a pass rushing DE, in any order ? I sure wouldn't. It's more realistic, IMO.

Of course what the Bills do is anyones guess :rolleyes:

[justasportsfan]

by way of comparison, his rush defence was tremendously superior to this teams. Enter your offensive minded head coach, defences then get neglected quite often, and their performance suffers.

Not fair to compare Dicks 4th year to Chans 1st year . Throw in this years strength of schedule to last years. This year was just brutal for a 1st year rebuilding coach.




I don't expect a drastic improvement in that department with Gailey as a HC,

I do expect better from Gailey simply from the difference in philosophy. Gailey doesn't seem like a "play not to lose" head coach especially offensively although it may seem so on the defensive side at times , but that I blame to lack of talent due to rebuilding year.

Gailey is also not afraid to make adjustments on both sides of the ball unlike his predecessor.

[Mr. Pink]

Yes, 6 wins is far better than 4..and still 4 games short of a wild card most years. :rolleyes:

I agree with DB's points above and several others. My thoughts on wanting the 4-3 is that Kyle Williams would be far better as a 4-3 DT. Alex Carrington showed something late this season and needs to play a full season to see if he's got it. Spencer Johnson belongs as a backup and the coaches should see Stroud has hit the wall. Dwan Edwards ? Don't know.

So a big DT to play next to Williams (with Troup rotating in) and a DE who can bring the heat could be found quicker than 2-3 LB's in a 3-4. Agreed ? Aside from Kelsay (yuck), The LB's are currently Moats ( promising ), Coleman ( who I liked in limited duty before getting hurt ) Batten coming back and a pick or 2 in the midlle rounds. All those Vet FA LB's who were cut from other teams were outright terrible this season. That idea bombed.

The Bills ran the 4-3 heavily the 2nd half of the season. The run Defense was not perfect by any stretch but showed some promise, unlike the 3-4 where Williams was getting double teamed and the LB's behind him were not physical enough to do much of anything. Teams just crushed us.

Would anyone be upset if our first 2 picks were a Big DT and a pass rushing DE, in any order ? I sure wouldn't. It's more realistic, IMO.

Of course what the Bills do is anyones guess :rolleyes:

If we stick to the 3-4 on rushing downs we need two big space eaters at DE. I think Williams can be serviceable as a NT in the 3-4 if he's got big uglies on each side of him. He's a high motor guy who can make plays but right now he's a major reason why teams can run the ball up the gut and run successfully.

He works well on passing downs because he's good at getting penetration, however on rush downs this is nullified mostly and allows the center to get to the 2nd level and get hands on the LBers who are supposed to be freed up to make tackles/plays.

Would I be upset if we took a big NT either? No. Still think we shoulda gone after Mt Cody instead of Troup last year.

I do agree we need to improve the rush D to turn into a playoff team among other things, I just was showing that we could be a 6 or 7 win team with just as pathetic of a rush defense.

[YardRat]

Picking up LBers in FA will be the key to the progression of the 34 for next season, because we don't have enough here now and we're not going to get that many in the draft.

[CAbills]

Still think we shoulda gone after Mt Cody instead of Troup last year.

The same Mt. Cody who hasn't even stepped on the field in Baltimore? If he can't get inspired and in shape with the leaders on that defense, what the hell would he look like here?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Troup was the right pick at nt... he was the best one..

[justasportsfan]

The same Mt. Cody who hasn't even stepped on the field in Baltimore? If he can't get inspired and in shape with the leaders on that defense, what the hell would he look like here?

But I thought cody was better than Troupe? :idunno:

[Mr. Pink]

The same Mt. Cody who hasn't even stepped on the field in Baltimore? If he can't get inspired and in shape with the leaders on that defense, what the hell would he look like here?


Because Troup has done what exactly here? Like he'd get on the field in Baltimore either?

[Mr. Pink]

Here's a comparison, I'll save you the time..

Troup 2 starts 19 combined tackles

Cody 1 start 9 combined tackles

Like either are better?

[psubills62]

Like I said in another thread...DL rarely contribute their rookie season. Cody was more NFL-ready, but very, very risky and is sitting behind a talented group at DL in Baltimore. Troup has seen the field here, but doesn't quite seem ready to be a starter. Give him a couple more years and see what he can do - some guys just take a little while but can become very good (Sione Pouha and Paul Soliai aretwo more examples I forgot about before).

[better days]

Here's a comparison, I'll save you the time..

Troup 2 starts 19 combined tackles

Cody 1 start 9 combined tackles

Like either are better?

Well, Troups numbers are twice as good as Codys. As for the Ravens 1st rnd pick Kindle, he never played a game & may never. Moats a 6th rnd pick looks like the better pick about now.

[Night Train]

Picking up LBers in FA will be the key to the progression of the 34 for next season, because we don't have enough here now and we're not going to get that many in the draft.

If quality, yes... but look at the stiffs the Bills signed this past off-season. The teams that cut them didn't want them as starters for a good reason...they stunk.

I think that avenue is played and the 3-4 was basically abandoned the 2nd half of the season.